Your catch about DDR certain looks right. The Bulls are currently in a 5 in 7 stretch too, iirc. All the more reason the Bulls should leverage DDR as a playmaker. Vooch with bench lineups worked a bit better than DDR with bench lineups. Ayo and Carter need more minutes together.
AK probably keeps his own record somewhere on his computer. Instead of just having two columns - wins and losses - his has a third column for competitive outs. He probably defines those as any loss by less than 20 points or a game in which the Bulls played at least half of the game within 15 points. So in his reality, this team only lost like 15-20 games last year. Not too bad.
This is why I was hoping they lost that ridiculous game against Toronto. Every loss further exposes this team for who they are and makes AKME seem more ridiculous for peddling their "consistency" BS
Part of me wonders if AK (we never hear much from ME) is like that Baltimore Orioles TV announcer who got suspended just for factually mentioning the team's previous struggles against the Rays. AK's job security may literally depend on his ability to put a positive spin on every aspect of the team's performance and aspirations.
Okay, yes that would make him a spineless Reinsdorf puppet along with being a below average roster constructor and incompetent negotiator. But at least it explains how pained and internally conflicted he looks when speaking about his team's hopes and abilities. Has anyone reviewed his press conferences to check his eye blinks for Morse code?
God bless you for watching this tire fire to keep us informed. I admit I was overly harsh when I predicted (to myself) a loss by 12 or more. So I was pleasantly suprised by the "tough out" and only losing by 9. Woot.
I think this was a phantom “tough out.” The Bucks let Zach pad his stats in the last 6 minutes, which caught them up a little, but to be a real “tough out” or “competitive loss” or however you want to phrase it there has to be a real threat that the Bulls might win, which was never there last night.
You know all those games last year where the Bulls played down to their competition, but then ended up losing because they weren't as good as they thought they were? This was the same thing from the Bucks, except they're actually good so they were able to pull away when it actually mattered. I'm sure AK views this as a competitive loss though.
This game was over before tip-off. Giannis politely brushed off all Bulls runs for the unserious threats they were like everyone knew he would. I'm more concerned that the individual value of most of these players is at all all-time low. Never mind that the cumulative value of parts here is a falling knife. The Bulls are so far away from being a contender, they're arguing with the calculus of actual contention.
14-9 is the only twenty-plus game sample size they're choosing to acknowledge, as if narrative structure is the only true path toward championship basketball.
Windhorst put it nicely: "The Chicago Bulls are in a rebuild and they don't even know it."
So, once the executive team wakes up to the ruins beneath their feet, something they should've done last summer, they're looking at hyper-diminishing returns.
How many teams are giving up a young player + multiple picks for LaVine? DDR wants another contract, and how many teams are lining up to trade valuable assets for the right to give it to him? Vucevic on a newly signed negative value extension is a mistake AKME refuses to acknowledge because continuity.
So, how many first-round picks do these guys fetch? I've got Caruso down for two first picks (e.g. Marcus Smart value). Past that, I'm firmly in the HODL Pat Williams camp and, I guess what I'm getting at is, there may be now tear down coming, because the thing is already in ruins.
I don't really know if this is true but I at least like to imagine NBA executives look beyond short-term hot-or-not-ness when it comes to player evaluation. Something like:
1. DeMar is old and he's worth the MLE to be a top bench scorer.
2. Vucevic is also an MLE guy who you can either pair with an absolute unicorn rim-running shotblocking young PF/C or give him 18 shots to offer some token offense on a terrible team.
3. Zach is an airhead 3rd option who needs an unquestionably better player to both feed him and deny him the ball and shame him away from his worst instincts and habits. Basically he's Andrew Wiggins before he got to Golden State.
They would want to give us Bertans and maybe Tre Mann (3rd string PG). Do we get a first since they’re overloaded with them? Not sure, Vuc’s contract is 1 yr longer.
It's so wild that we paid Jimmy Butler, Wendell Carter and three first round picks for our Big 3 and you have to squint really hard to think of teams that would want to pay much for them.
> Basically he's Andrew Wiggins before he got to Golden State.
Realized after posting this that Wiggins and Zach are basically exactly the same age (Wiggins was born about 2 and a half weeks earlier). For some reason I assumed Wiggins was older, and his career turnaround in Golden State started when he was TWENTY FOUR, five years ago. So... likely too late for that kind of thing to happen.
I agree with most of what you said except for the last sentence. What does holding onto Zach, DeMar and Vooch get you? Yes, AK seriously missed the opportunity to get rid of all of those guys for far more than he can do so now, but it would still be worth it to trade them. That way their salaries are no longer on this team and there are at least a few more draft picks/young players for the future.
Watching Zach "turn it on" in the last 3 minutes was gross. If I were a baseball writer I'd start sobbing over "disrespecting the game" or some nonsense, in reality this is just the most Zach-like moment at the most Zach-like time: chucking ruthlessly to get his numbers in the closing moments of a loss.
Zach will be 29 years old this season btw. No longer "learning" and "growing," this is who he is. You're not going to change it.
You know what's sad? After that timeout when Zach pulled up from three, despite how terrible he had been all game, I knew that shot was money. Why? Because it didn't matter. Zach is the Michael Jordan of getting buckets when the game is over.
That reminds me of my favorite SportsCenter moment, with Craig Kilbourn delivering the highlights of a mid-90s Knicks game. After the Knicks' power forward threw down a thunderous putback dunk, Kilbourn shouted, "THIS IS CHARLES SMITH'S TIME OF YEAR!"
Of course it was mid-October, in a meaningless preseason game. And Charles Smith had already cemented a reputation as a player who always shrank from the spotlight and played weakly in clutch moments (like the 1993 Eastern Conf Finals https://youtu.be/4hQ9B66MbxM?si=-gaQZDOuadZ68WRg)
Come to think of it, Charles Smith was like a hybrid of Zach and PWill, but no time to expound on that here.
Nov 14, 2023·edited Nov 14, 2023Liked by your friendly BullsBlogger
Boy, being owned by the NYT has certainly turned out well for subscribers to The Athletic. This story is literally a sentence with a bunch of padding.
Here is that sentence because it should be illegal this is behind a paywall:
> NBA teams are probing the availability of two-time All-Star guard Zach LaVine and there’s been increased openness from the organization and player about exploring a trade, league sources said.
For some strange reason, I was actually able to read that article even though I don't pay for The Athletic. But you're right. It was basically a Tweet with some extra paragraphs to make it seem like an article.
Honestly, I'm kind of happy Zach has finally given up the "I believe in this team and want to be here" act. We all know that's not true. Dude seems more disinterested than usual. Force you way out, man. That's the only way this FO is going to do anything.
Edit: I should add that I don't think Zach deserves to force his way out. He's a huge part of the problems with this team. But Zach forcing his way out will still likely help this team choose a new direction, which I think we all agree is necessary.
I’m hoping for drama and burned bridges, expose this FO and ownership for the losers they are. Zach may not have been the guy from a basketball standpoint but I’ll still praise him for being as professional as he’s been in this dumpster fire of an org. If all this accelerates a rebuild and the firing of AK I’m all for it.
The worst thing about Zach leaving town will be the goodbyes. It was maybe the worst era since the post-dynasty teams and unlike Elton Brand, he stuck around as the face of a hapless franchise for 7 years. The "great memories"? The only one I can think of is a mid-winter, meaningless game against an equally shitty Hornets team.
Halftime tribute video on deck. I'll never forget the time he... uh... hmm... Honestly, that crazy Hornets game is my only real memory of Zach and I watch pretty much every game.
Compare/contrast to ... I'm not going to say Jimmy Butler (but it's true), I'm not going to say Derrick Rose or Michael Jordan (true and true). Just compare the nebulousness of Zach LaVine's Chicago Bulls career to that of Ben Gordon. Or one single season of Nate Robinson on a non-guaranteed contract. Joakim Noah could run for mayor and win. We'd nominate Luol Deng for president. It's not hard to become a legend in this town, we don't even care if you were very good. That this is all we remember of the Zach LaVine "era" is pretty telling.
I told a table full of people that I would take Nate Robninson over Lavine right now. I know that 5'10" thirty nine year olds who have been out of the league for half a decade do not have a strong track record in the NBA but I stand by this statement.
The only bright spot last night was DeRozan's WILD 180 degree no look pass for a Coby corner three. Don't think I've seen a Bulls player make a play like that since DRose. A legitimately fun highlight of an otherwise unremarkable game.
With Shams breaking the news that LaVine and the Bulls are more willing to deal, I can't find a team that makes sense. OKC would honestly be the best fit for him but they're not trading for LaVine. The Knicks? Miami? I can't see Zach coexisting with Jimmy. Ship might have sailed with Philly. Maybe I'm missing something.
If Reaves is going to continue to be who he actually is rather than who the LA hype machine tried to convince everyone he is, the Lakers would be a decent fit.
LeBron deciding when Zach gets to touch the ball would do wonders for Zach.
Lakers can't afford it. Zach makes 40mil. Lakers would have to get a third team or Reaves, Rui, and Gabe have to come back. Lakers aren't making that deal.
DLo and Rui is 32, so they could technically just throw some junk like Vanderbilt or Christie on there. The issue is I don’t think at that point they’d add picks (tbh they’d probably expect them coming their way) so the. Why do it
And this is the problem with Zach making as much as he does. The teams with all the picks, don't want/need him. The teams that want him don't have enough to trade. Philly could probably do better than Zach with their assets. AKME has to be creative and we know how that is gonna go.
It works if he's an upgrade over a team's third best player. Which means the team is already likely pretty good. Which means the Bulls won't get much beyond not having to pay Zach $40M of a roster capped at $20M under the tax
That was my original thinking but even those teams don't make sense. Golden State unloading Klay? The money has to come back. There aren't that many bad, big contracts anymore.
I disagree as the Bulls would get off of a large salary and get a young player with upside. I do agree that Klay won't be traded, though. You could do a deal with CP3 as the big salary coming back.
GSW ain't trading CP3 either. But the Bulls should reject that deal too. JK can't shoot, I'm good. CP3 would demand a buyout. Zach for JK is essentially what that deal would be. That's a laughably bad deal for the Bulls.
There's another option, which is teams that can't sign free agents. OKC is out, San Antonio is out, Utah is out. Charlotte? Hayward is in his last year, + Brandon Miller and we have our own accessory to murder on our roster again. Or we can include the guy who apparently cannot stop attacking his wife. An array of mugshots await us.
Interesting question, isn't it? His "list" might be huge but there really can only be a few "good" teams able to pull off this trade.
And the Bulls can be massive pricks with an owner who is likely to look gassy and irritated by the idea of a player under contract steering a trade, particularly if he has to take back long term contracts over short ones (say, Hayward vs. someone like Huerter in a Kings' deal).
So Miami or Lakers works because they have a hierarchy that's Klutch-approved. I don't see Zach helping Maxey in Philly or working in NY at all. Crazily Zach has been able to dissuade NY as a suitor due to the Klutch feud with them
I can't see Zach in Miami bc "Heat Culture". Lakers don't have enough to be interesting. That's why I think it's gonna be some mystery team taking a flyer. Don't ask me who though.
Kings aren't dumb anymore. (Well, compared to their history anyway.) Pelicans and Kings assets would be woof. We're gonna point and laugh at what the Bulls get back.
When you look at NBA contracts, the guys available that make near what Zach makes is woof. So then you start mathing. The combination of guys that are available that make what Zach makes.... extra woof. It's gonna be ugly.
The Pelicans roster is another mess of mismatched parts. I don't think Ingram and Zion can coexist. Would they trade one of them for Zach? Would the Bulls even want Ingram? Chicago's pizza scene would definitely want Zion.
I just don't see why you'd trade Tyler Herro for LaVine. Similar guy but younger and cheaper. Not as good, but not so much worse that I'd make that trade. And I don't want him if I'm the Bulls.
Maybe I'm just selling the trade to myself, but I could see both sides being willing to make a trade centered on LaVine for Herro. No matter how you put it, LaVine is the better pure scorer. Miami just needs him to be a scorer and nothing else. We all agree that's all Zach should be.
My guess is they'd hope they can instill that winning mindset that they have in him, and to be honest, they might be able to. For all the hate we love to give Zach for not being a winning player, he's also only played for absolute jokes of franchises. Maybe the right environment would help him learn what it means to win. Not saying they would 100% be successful, but I could see what Miami's angle would be.
As for Zach's age, Miami is in win-now mode. Lowry, Jimmy and Bam aren't getting any younger. I doubt they'd be too worried about losing Herro's youth for Zach. What they need is scoring, and as good of a scorer as Herro is, Zach is better. He just is.
Now for the Bulls. Herro isn't quite the scorer Zach is, but he's close enough and much cheaper. He's also a better playmaker/decisionmaker than Zach is. That's obviously not a high bar, but he at least surpasses it.
I hate to say this, but I'm pretty sure this FO isn't going full fire sale if they trade Zach. I genuinely believe this FO wants to wait to blow things up until they know 100% what Lonzo looks like once he's finished rehabbing. Incredibly dumb, I know. But it's what we're stuck with.
So Herro makes sense. He provides probably 85-90% of Zach's scoring, reduces some of Zach's boneheadedness (it's a word, trust me), he's far less expensive and he's younger, which means if Lonzo turns out to be done, they can trade DeMar and Vooch and restart with Herro as the main guy.
This obviously is a terrible plan and AKME should have traded all of the mid-3 by last summer at the latest, but it's the most likely plan. Assuming it is the plan, Herro would somewhat make sense.
Your view of why Zach is better just seems like the difference between theory and practice.
In theory, Zach is a better scorer.
In practice, Herro is a much better spot up shooter, better at moving off the ball, and better facilitator. He's better without the ball in his hands.
Zach is a lot better at driving and getting to the line. He's a better scorer with the ball in his hands.
That would help the Heat in the regular season, but when they get to the playoffs, the ball is gonna be in Jimmy's hands, and Zach is not going to be as helpful.
I'm not saying the Heat wouldn't be interested in Zach at all, but I think if they are really maximizing their win-now odds, the offer is probably going to be something like that Lowry/DRob/Jovic + a pick package.
Which is pretty terrible. Taking on a bad deal like Rob is work a pick by itself. Lowry does nothing for us. Jovic and a middling pick are not a very inspiring return. Maybe we get two picks, but... due to the Stepien rule, the earliest we could get a pick from Miami is 2027.
So the deal would be like, a '27 and 29 pick from the Heat. We'd be 4 years down the road before we get any return at all. So this is gonna be a long and nasty rebuild.
Lakers, by the way, can't trade a pick to us till 2029.
To be fair, this is likely going to be a long and nasty rebuild regardless because Jerry owns this team and AKME seem in over their heads.
With that being said, I guess my thinking with Zach buying into Miami's win-first mentality would be him accepting playing off ball as a spot up shooter. I'll happily admit that I haven't recently looked at Zach's advanced stats, but I do know everyone is always talking about how good he is in catch-and-shoot situations. So my guess is he'd be pretty good at it in Miami when Jimmy and Bam are sucking defenses into the lane.
Actually I checked with ESPN Stats and Info, and it turns out wrapping up a Giannis drive and stuffing a Lillard step-back three (two of the better offensive plays in the league) is really cool. So you should add a correction note to the recap, FYI.
I'm fine with Pat! As long as this highlight reel goes towards a very team friendly contract. I feel the need to counter bullish Pat propoganda, but you're right there is little need.
It's funny that local media is running with 'Zach is a professional and won't make drama of this' when he's using his agency blowtorch to ask out and quiet quitting on the floor
Deciding to keep Jerian Grant over Spencer Dinwiddie is still one of the most infuriating things this organization has done over the past decade or so. It was so incredibly obvious that Dinwiddie was about to make a name for himself in the NBA, but we had to go with Jerian because his uncle works/played for the organization!!
Orlando is a dumb team (tho we are dumber). They have vets Isaac, Harris, and Ingles that add up to Zach’s salary…we’d definitely need at least a 1st to do that, right?
Honestly, I could see this. Orlando is a team that needs a "star" to sell to their fanbase and Zach fits that perfectly. He's not actually that good, but he'll be viewed by their base as a big name coming from a big market.
I'm not sure I like that return though (operating under the assumption that AK is serious about keeping DeMar and Vooch for some mind-numbingly stupid reason). DeMar would just move to SG and Ingles could play SF and add much needed three point shooting.
On paper, Isaac would be that defense-first PF this team needs, but is he cooked? I don't really keep up with the Magic. I was under the impression that once he had fully recovered from his injuries, he was supposed to be a pretty good player. He's barely averaging 12 minutes per game right now.
Admittedly, I know nothing about Kevon Harris. But seeing as he's 26 and on a two-way contract, my guess is he's not very good.
The only way I even consider this is if a first is included. And it either needs to be lightly protected or preferably unprotected. Don't need Zach going to the Magic and making them so bad that they keep their protected pick...
It would be Gary Harris, the dude we drafted and traded for McD. He’s a solid 3&D guard when not injured. Isaac is supposedly healthy but definitely out of their plans.
Ah didn't even think of Gary Harris. That would make more sense. Yeah, I think I'd be open to that trade if it included a first. But then again, I'm probably open to just about any trade for Zach at this point...
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Your catch about DDR certain looks right. The Bulls are currently in a 5 in 7 stretch too, iirc. All the more reason the Bulls should leverage DDR as a playmaker. Vooch with bench lineups worked a bit better than DDR with bench lineups. Ayo and Carter need more minutes together.
AK probably keeps his own record somewhere on his computer. Instead of just having two columns - wins and losses - his has a third column for competitive outs. He probably defines those as any loss by less than 20 points or a game in which the Bulls played at least half of the game within 15 points. So in his reality, this team only lost like 15-20 games last year. Not too bad.
ball didn't go in
But is that as important as being a double-double machine??
This is why I was hoping they lost that ridiculous game against Toronto. Every loss further exposes this team for who they are and makes AKME seem more ridiculous for peddling their "consistency" BS
Part of me wonders if AK (we never hear much from ME) is like that Baltimore Orioles TV announcer who got suspended just for factually mentioning the team's previous struggles against the Rays. AK's job security may literally depend on his ability to put a positive spin on every aspect of the team's performance and aspirations.
Okay, yes that would make him a spineless Reinsdorf puppet along with being a below average roster constructor and incompetent negotiator. But at least it explains how pained and internally conflicted he looks when speaking about his team's hopes and abilities. Has anyone reviewed his press conferences to check his eye blinks for Morse code?
God bless you for watching this tire fire to keep us informed. I admit I was overly harsh when I predicted (to myself) a loss by 12 or more. So I was pleasantly suprised by the "tough out" and only losing by 9. Woot.
I think this was a phantom “tough out.” The Bucks let Zach pad his stats in the last 6 minutes, which caught them up a little, but to be a real “tough out” or “competitive loss” or however you want to phrase it there has to be a real threat that the Bulls might win, which was never there last night.
You know all those games last year where the Bulls played down to their competition, but then ended up losing because they weren't as good as they thought they were? This was the same thing from the Bucks, except they're actually good so they were able to pull away when it actually mattered. I'm sure AK views this as a competitive loss though.
The team is starting to get to know each other.
This game was over before tip-off. Giannis politely brushed off all Bulls runs for the unserious threats they were like everyone knew he would. I'm more concerned that the individual value of most of these players is at all all-time low. Never mind that the cumulative value of parts here is a falling knife. The Bulls are so far away from being a contender, they're arguing with the calculus of actual contention.
14-9 is the only twenty-plus game sample size they're choosing to acknowledge, as if narrative structure is the only true path toward championship basketball.
Windhorst put it nicely: "The Chicago Bulls are in a rebuild and they don't even know it."
So, once the executive team wakes up to the ruins beneath their feet, something they should've done last summer, they're looking at hyper-diminishing returns.
How many teams are giving up a young player + multiple picks for LaVine? DDR wants another contract, and how many teams are lining up to trade valuable assets for the right to give it to him? Vucevic on a newly signed negative value extension is a mistake AKME refuses to acknowledge because continuity.
So, how many first-round picks do these guys fetch? I've got Caruso down for two first picks (e.g. Marcus Smart value). Past that, I'm firmly in the HODL Pat Williams camp and, I guess what I'm getting at is, there may be now tear down coming, because the thing is already in ruins.
It's hold and pray time.
I don't really know if this is true but I at least like to imagine NBA executives look beyond short-term hot-or-not-ness when it comes to player evaluation. Something like:
1. DeMar is old and he's worth the MLE to be a top bench scorer.
2. Vucevic is also an MLE guy who you can either pair with an absolute unicorn rim-running shotblocking young PF/C or give him 18 shots to offer some token offense on a terrible team.
3. Zach is an airhead 3rd option who needs an unquestionably better player to both feed him and deny him the ball and shame him away from his worst instincts and habits. Basically he's Andrew Wiggins before he got to Golden State.
I think you're right, but the sum total of everything you described is probably what? Some draft picks from the Lakers and matching salaries?
My guess is they sell Zach to the highest bidder, extend DDR and spin-cite addition by subtraction.
Maybe OKC can convince themselves that Vooch and Chet would make a decent frontcourt pair?
I think they’re smarter than that but a guy can dream
They would want to give us Bertans and maybe Tre Mann (3rd string PG). Do we get a first since they’re overloaded with them? Not sure, Vuc’s contract is 1 yr longer.
It's so wild that we paid Jimmy Butler, Wendell Carter and three first round picks for our Big 3 and you have to squint really hard to think of teams that would want to pay much for them.
but we got that single playoff victory
> Basically he's Andrew Wiggins before he got to Golden State.
Realized after posting this that Wiggins and Zach are basically exactly the same age (Wiggins was born about 2 and a half weeks earlier). For some reason I assumed Wiggins was older, and his career turnaround in Golden State started when he was TWENTY FOUR, five years ago. So... likely too late for that kind of thing to happen.
I also was surprised by this recently, but thought Wiggins was way younger
I agree with most of what you said except for the last sentence. What does holding onto Zach, DeMar and Vooch get you? Yes, AK seriously missed the opportunity to get rid of all of those guys for far more than he can do so now, but it would still be worth it to trade them. That way their salaries are no longer on this team and there are at least a few more draft picks/young players for the future.
Watching Zach "turn it on" in the last 3 minutes was gross. If I were a baseball writer I'd start sobbing over "disrespecting the game" or some nonsense, in reality this is just the most Zach-like moment at the most Zach-like time: chucking ruthlessly to get his numbers in the closing moments of a loss.
Zach will be 29 years old this season btw. No longer "learning" and "growing," this is who he is. You're not going to change it.
You know what's sad? After that timeout when Zach pulled up from three, despite how terrible he had been all game, I knew that shot was money. Why? Because it didn't matter. Zach is the Michael Jordan of getting buckets when the game is over.
That reminds me of my favorite SportsCenter moment, with Craig Kilbourn delivering the highlights of a mid-90s Knicks game. After the Knicks' power forward threw down a thunderous putback dunk, Kilbourn shouted, "THIS IS CHARLES SMITH'S TIME OF YEAR!"
Of course it was mid-October, in a meaningless preseason game. And Charles Smith had already cemented a reputation as a player who always shrank from the spotlight and played weakly in clutch moments (like the 1993 Eastern Conf Finals https://youtu.be/4hQ9B66MbxM?si=-gaQZDOuadZ68WRg)
Come to think of it, Charles Smith was like a hybrid of Zach and PWill, but no time to expound on that here.
But how are we doing in the tournament?
we were competitive, which is all fans can ask for
now Zach is continuing to cosplay as a star by using Shams to ask out, sorry, "open to a trade"
we know the Bulls have been open to a trade for months
Boy, being owned by the NYT has certainly turned out well for subscribers to The Athletic. This story is literally a sentence with a bunch of padding.
Here is that sentence because it should be illegal this is behind a paywall:
> NBA teams are probing the availability of two-time All-Star guard Zach LaVine and there’s been increased openness from the organization and player about exploring a trade, league sources said.
For some strange reason, I was actually able to read that article even though I don't pay for The Athletic. But you're right. It was basically a Tweet with some extra paragraphs to make it seem like an article.
It was so short that the paywall only blocked a tiny bit of the padding lol
the article did nothing for the first seven paragraphs then finally made a good point at the very end
"Two-time" doing a lot of work here
For a 29 year old max contract guy, it's not really that impressive
Honestly, I'm kind of happy Zach has finally given up the "I believe in this team and want to be here" act. We all know that's not true. Dude seems more disinterested than usual. Force you way out, man. That's the only way this FO is going to do anything.
Edit: I should add that I don't think Zach deserves to force his way out. He's a huge part of the problems with this team. But Zach forcing his way out will still likely help this team choose a new direction, which I think we all agree is necessary.
I’m hoping for drama and burned bridges, expose this FO and ownership for the losers they are. Zach may not have been the guy from a basketball standpoint but I’ll still praise him for being as professional as he’s been in this dumpster fire of an org. If all this accelerates a rebuild and the firing of AK I’m all for it.
I am too, but even that likely won't be enough. There won't be true change until Jerry is gone.
The worst thing about Zach leaving town will be the goodbyes. It was maybe the worst era since the post-dynasty teams and unlike Elton Brand, he stuck around as the face of a hapless franchise for 7 years. The "great memories"? The only one I can think of is a mid-winter, meaningless game against an equally shitty Hornets team.
hug alert is high
More like shrug alert
Halftime tribute video on deck. I'll never forget the time he... uh... hmm... Honestly, that crazy Hornets game is my only real memory of Zach and I watch pretty much every game.
Compare/contrast to ... I'm not going to say Jimmy Butler (but it's true), I'm not going to say Derrick Rose or Michael Jordan (true and true). Just compare the nebulousness of Zach LaVine's Chicago Bulls career to that of Ben Gordon. Or one single season of Nate Robinson on a non-guaranteed contract. Joakim Noah could run for mayor and win. We'd nominate Luol Deng for president. It's not hard to become a legend in this town, we don't even care if you were very good. That this is all we remember of the Zach LaVine "era" is pretty telling.
Is it entirely his fault? Yes. Yes it is.
It's all right cuz he's paid by the Bulls
I told a table full of people that I would take Nate Robninson over Lavine right now. I know that 5'10" thirty nine year olds who have been out of the league for half a decade do not have a strong track record in the NBA but I stand by this statement.
Now Shams on his gambling show has LaVine's, sorry, sources, list
Lakers, Heat, Sixers
The only bright spot last night was DeRozan's WILD 180 degree no look pass for a Coby corner three. Don't think I've seen a Bulls player make a play like that since DRose. A legitimately fun highlight of an otherwise unremarkable game.
it was like the end of "The Killing of a Sacred Deer"
With Shams breaking the news that LaVine and the Bulls are more willing to deal, I can't find a team that makes sense. OKC would honestly be the best fit for him but they're not trading for LaVine. The Knicks? Miami? I can't see Zach coexisting with Jimmy. Ship might have sailed with Philly. Maybe I'm missing something.
If Reaves is going to continue to be who he actually is rather than who the LA hype machine tried to convince everyone he is, the Lakers would be a decent fit.
LeBron deciding when Zach gets to touch the ball would do wonders for Zach.
Lakers can't afford it. Zach makes 40mil. Lakers would have to get a third team or Reaves, Rui, and Gabe have to come back. Lakers aren't making that deal.
I don’t know how exact the matching has to be for it to work, could they send back DLo and one of Rui or Reaves?
Gotta be with 25% of salaries, iirc. It'd have to be all of the players you mentioned with no "or".
DLo and Rui is 32, so they could technically just throw some junk like Vanderbilt or Christie on there. The issue is I don’t think at that point they’d add picks (tbh they’d probably expect them coming their way) so the. Why do it
And this is the problem with Zach making as much as he does. The teams with all the picks, don't want/need him. The teams that want him don't have enough to trade. Philly could probably do better than Zach with their assets. AKME has to be creative and we know how that is gonna go.
show me on the court where Zach touched the ball
It works if he's an upgrade over a team's third best player. Which means the team is already likely pretty good. Which means the Bulls won't get much beyond not having to pay Zach $40M of a roster capped at $20M under the tax
That was my original thinking but even those teams don't make sense. Golden State unloading Klay? The money has to come back. There aren't that many bad, big contracts anymore.
Klay and Kuminga for Zach and Dalen works. This actually addresses both teams' needs.
Bulls would get laughed outta the league. Plus Klay won't get traded.
I disagree as the Bulls would get off of a large salary and get a young player with upside. I do agree that Klay won't be traded, though. You could do a deal with CP3 as the big salary coming back.
GSW ain't trading CP3 either. But the Bulls should reject that deal too. JK can't shoot, I'm good. CP3 would demand a buyout. Zach for JK is essentially what that deal would be. That's a laughably bad deal for the Bulls.
There's another option, which is teams that can't sign free agents. OKC is out, San Antonio is out, Utah is out. Charlotte? Hayward is in his last year, + Brandon Miller and we have our own accessory to murder on our roster again. Or we can include the guy who apparently cannot stop attacking his wife. An array of mugshots await us.
Detroit would be another in that basket (of deplorables)
But I think Zach (and Klutch) has enough juice to steer him away from a totally irrelevant team. At least the Bulls are in Chicago #DoTheDew
Interesting question, isn't it? His "list" might be huge but there really can only be a few "good" teams able to pull off this trade.
And the Bulls can be massive pricks with an owner who is likely to look gassy and irritated by the idea of a player under contract steering a trade, particularly if he has to take back long term contracts over short ones (say, Hayward vs. someone like Huerter in a Kings' deal).
Fun times ahead!
So Miami or Lakers works because they have a hierarchy that's Klutch-approved. I don't see Zach helping Maxey in Philly or working in NY at all. Crazily Zach has been able to dissuade NY as a suitor due to the Klutch feud with them
I can't see Zach in Miami bc "Heat Culture". Lakers don't have enough to be interesting. That's why I think it's gonna be some mystery team taking a flyer. Don't ask me who though.
Always look for the dumb teams, so Kings and Pelicans wouldn't surprise me
Wait, so the Bulls are going to somehow trade Zach to themselves??
Kings aren't dumb anymore. (Well, compared to their history anyway.) Pelicans and Kings assets would be woof. We're gonna point and laugh at what the Bulls get back.
yeah Pelicans would have to include CJ McCollum. Who has a collapsed lung.
When you look at NBA contracts, the guys available that make near what Zach makes is woof. So then you start mathing. The combination of guys that are available that make what Zach makes.... extra woof. It's gonna be ugly.
The Pelicans roster is another mess of mismatched parts. I don't think Ingram and Zion can coexist. Would they trade one of them for Zach? Would the Bulls even want Ingram? Chicago's pizza scene would definitely want Zion.
found the Knicks link from draft night
https://www.nydailynews.com/2023/06/22/zach-lavine-camp-would-be-against-a-knicks-trade-source/
I just don't see why you'd trade Tyler Herro for LaVine. Similar guy but younger and cheaper. Not as good, but not so much worse that I'd make that trade. And I don't want him if I'm the Bulls.
Maybe I'm just selling the trade to myself, but I could see both sides being willing to make a trade centered on LaVine for Herro. No matter how you put it, LaVine is the better pure scorer. Miami just needs him to be a scorer and nothing else. We all agree that's all Zach should be.
My guess is they'd hope they can instill that winning mindset that they have in him, and to be honest, they might be able to. For all the hate we love to give Zach for not being a winning player, he's also only played for absolute jokes of franchises. Maybe the right environment would help him learn what it means to win. Not saying they would 100% be successful, but I could see what Miami's angle would be.
As for Zach's age, Miami is in win-now mode. Lowry, Jimmy and Bam aren't getting any younger. I doubt they'd be too worried about losing Herro's youth for Zach. What they need is scoring, and as good of a scorer as Herro is, Zach is better. He just is.
Now for the Bulls. Herro isn't quite the scorer Zach is, but he's close enough and much cheaper. He's also a better playmaker/decisionmaker than Zach is. That's obviously not a high bar, but he at least surpasses it.
I hate to say this, but I'm pretty sure this FO isn't going full fire sale if they trade Zach. I genuinely believe this FO wants to wait to blow things up until they know 100% what Lonzo looks like once he's finished rehabbing. Incredibly dumb, I know. But it's what we're stuck with.
So Herro makes sense. He provides probably 85-90% of Zach's scoring, reduces some of Zach's boneheadedness (it's a word, trust me), he's far less expensive and he's younger, which means if Lonzo turns out to be done, they can trade DeMar and Vooch and restart with Herro as the main guy.
This obviously is a terrible plan and AKME should have traded all of the mid-3 by last summer at the latest, but it's the most likely plan. Assuming it is the plan, Herro would somewhat make sense.
Your view of why Zach is better just seems like the difference between theory and practice.
In theory, Zach is a better scorer.
In practice, Herro is a much better spot up shooter, better at moving off the ball, and better facilitator. He's better without the ball in his hands.
Zach is a lot better at driving and getting to the line. He's a better scorer with the ball in his hands.
That would help the Heat in the regular season, but when they get to the playoffs, the ball is gonna be in Jimmy's hands, and Zach is not going to be as helpful.
I'm not saying the Heat wouldn't be interested in Zach at all, but I think if they are really maximizing their win-now odds, the offer is probably going to be something like that Lowry/DRob/Jovic + a pick package.
Which is pretty terrible. Taking on a bad deal like Rob is work a pick by itself. Lowry does nothing for us. Jovic and a middling pick are not a very inspiring return. Maybe we get two picks, but... due to the Stepien rule, the earliest we could get a pick from Miami is 2027.
So the deal would be like, a '27 and 29 pick from the Heat. We'd be 4 years down the road before we get any return at all. So this is gonna be a long and nasty rebuild.
Lakers, by the way, can't trade a pick to us till 2029.
"So this is gonna be a long and nasty rebuild."
To be fair, this is likely going to be a long and nasty rebuild regardless because Jerry owns this team and AKME seem in over their heads.
With that being said, I guess my thinking with Zach buying into Miami's win-first mentality would be him accepting playing off ball as a spot up shooter. I'll happily admit that I haven't recently looked at Zach's advanced stats, but I do know everyone is always talking about how good he is in catch-and-shoot situations. So my guess is he'd be pretty good at it in Miami when Jimmy and Bam are sucking defenses into the lane.
Zach + Terry to Nets for Simmons/Clowney/Whitehead/Pick?
Actually I checked with ESPN Stats and Info, and it turns out wrapping up a Giannis drive and stuffing a Lillard step-back three (two of the better offensive plays in the league) is really cool. So you should add a correction note to the recap, FYI.
nope, it was in fuckaround time, doesn't count. Kind of like when Pat scores 23 points on the last game of the season
Giannis and Lillard are some of the most serious, least fuckaround guys in the league. Like, dude, what are you talking about lol?
I'm fine with Pat! As long as this highlight reel goes towards a very team friendly contract. I feel the need to counter bullish Pat propoganda, but you're right there is little need.
Don't worry, Pat counters his own propaganda every game ;)
It's funny that local media is running with 'Zach is a professional and won't make drama of this' when he's using his agency blowtorch to ask out and quiet quitting on the floor
Quiet quitting or bad at his job: the Zach LaVine story
The best I could find (for a Zach trade) would be something like that:
TOR Zach Lavine
PHI OG Anunoby
CHI Gary Trent Junior, Marcus Morris Sr, other salary filler and draft compensation (from Philly)
Or an alternative?
TOR: Lavine
PHI: Anunoby, Caruso
CHI: Melton, Springer, Morris, Gary Trent
Man, it's gonna suck so bad when the Lavine trade turns out to be for Jerian Grant and Robin Lopez.
Deciding to keep Jerian Grant over Spencer Dinwiddie is still one of the most infuriating things this organization has done over the past decade or so. It was so incredibly obvious that Dinwiddie was about to make a name for himself in the NBA, but we had to go with Jerian because his uncle works/played for the organization!!
Orlando is a dumb team (tho we are dumber). They have vets Isaac, Harris, and Ingles that add up to Zach’s salary…we’d definitely need at least a 1st to do that, right?
Honestly, I could see this. Orlando is a team that needs a "star" to sell to their fanbase and Zach fits that perfectly. He's not actually that good, but he'll be viewed by their base as a big name coming from a big market.
I'm not sure I like that return though (operating under the assumption that AK is serious about keeping DeMar and Vooch for some mind-numbingly stupid reason). DeMar would just move to SG and Ingles could play SF and add much needed three point shooting.
On paper, Isaac would be that defense-first PF this team needs, but is he cooked? I don't really keep up with the Magic. I was under the impression that once he had fully recovered from his injuries, he was supposed to be a pretty good player. He's barely averaging 12 minutes per game right now.
Admittedly, I know nothing about Kevon Harris. But seeing as he's 26 and on a two-way contract, my guess is he's not very good.
The only way I even consider this is if a first is included. And it either needs to be lightly protected or preferably unprotected. Don't need Zach going to the Magic and making them so bad that they keep their protected pick...
It would be Gary Harris, the dude we drafted and traded for McD. He’s a solid 3&D guard when not injured. Isaac is supposedly healthy but definitely out of their plans.
Ah didn't even think of Gary Harris. That would make more sense. Yeah, I think I'd be open to that trade if it included a first. But then again, I'm probably open to just about any trade for Zach at this point...