The "story," I think, is that he read his mea culpa from a prepared text. Considering how different it was than when we've seen him freestyle, I suspect this was a PR move.
Like The Dorf says, best thing you can do is finish in 2nd and give your fans hope. Karnosovas' appearances have basically clubbed the hope out of fans like they were baby seals.
The main takeaway here is that it took AK over a year to realize what everyone else on the planet had already concluded. If he truly had the greenlight from ownership to rebuild as he claimed, then this should have been a resignation and not an explanation.
"We cannot roll the same team again and expect different results"
"Even with some of the positivity... with you know, with clutch wins and overtime wins, we're still at 39 and we play in. And we have to somehow generate an additional 10 wins."
"This group hasn't worked"
That's blunt.
I did not expect that much candidness or awareness from him. He should have said it and acted on it over a year ago, but I did not expect it from him at all at this point.
The only question AK actually answered directly was the question about whether or not there needed to be changes made to the front office. His answer was an emphatic "No!"
On the other hand, I was surprised by how much he admitted the team hadn't worked out and that changes were going to be made. I suppose after you've blatantly lied for so long you have to eventually throw the people a bone just so you don't lose your job.
Another year, another justifiable season-ending exhortation to ritual suicide for the front office. Some people just won't take the offramp toward personal and professional dignity.
Job market is bad right now, I too would love to be at a company where I can do fuck all and still be employed for life. At some point reinsdorf has to know that AI can do the same type of GM job as AKME right? Maybe AI would try too hard?
A few things were made clear during Jerry's Big Adventure in Springfield last month. He's trying to sew everything up in the next 5 years because he doesn't think he can count on being alive much longer than that, and he said openly that it would be extreme onerous for his heirs to retain both teams rather than selling after he dies, and he expects his heirs will sell.
For Sox fans, you're going to get fucked. The state seems extremely uninterested in adding to the valuation of the Reinsdorf Family Trust, thank goodness, so the rest of us are okay.
For the Bulls I don't know what this means. When Boylen said he was acting as team "CEO," I think that reflected the general paralysis that predates Karnisovas and Eversley and Donovan. I think the Bulls are in a position to be sold as-is, but still fatten the fuck out of his bank account every year. Logically he shouldn't rock the boat. And rationally "what they should do" and "what they can do" have been narrowed down into a very small realm of possibilities, few of which have anything to do with individual players or emotional investment. And practically they don't want to do much (I mean even physical exertion) or spend much (beyond what the league makes them spend), so there's a balance to be sought there as well as some of these decisions are going to be made for them.
I don't think they'll "bring it all back" because that would cost the most money (lol at the idea of ever going into the luxury tax until that guy dies and we boo his widow). DeMar may just sign for a couple years but he's probably not offering a cash discount on his current salary. Patrick Williams is not getting less than he made last year. Everyone else's salaries are incrementally higher in excess of the increase in the luxury tax threshold.
Plan B probably consists of The Rondo Agenda: conceal that you're shipping a bunch of shit out by bringing lower-paid shit in. Toss out Derrick Rose for Jerian Grant by adding a "splashy" Rondo. In the 2024 context this would mean DeMar walking (more likely getting a sign and trade) and signing Chris Paul for a fraction of what DeMar was paid.
Plan C would be Le Reddit Blow It All Up, which involves the most effort and ultimately still a lot of money.
The irony of any post-DeMar Bulls team in 2025 is that if "successful" they will be surrendering a first round pick for a guy who longer plays here, which GMs are mercilessly ridiculed for. In the language of Erving Goffman, Karnisovas most definitely considers himself a shrewd operator and I don't think he can handle that ego death. That shouldn't be a a factor but it is. So I would think he has a strong personal aversion to Plan B, and will try to swing it toward a plan that either retains DeMar or snorts a few lines of Quin Snyder Marching Powder and nukes it down to bedrock at all costs (within reason eh). Thanks for coming to my TedX Talk: Live at Kennedy-King Community College.
unsurprisingly, there's low expectations for the team and that extends towards low expectations for press conferences
AK was not offensively stupid but beyond his prepared statement he still let slip that he's in way over his head
best example was regarding Lonzo. Asked "don't you need to evaluate Lonzo's status before the draft? and you're saying you're going to wait a few months?"
AK: 😐 ::pausing to consider the mere concept of proactivity:: "we will wait and see"
What I get from this is that they will really try to do something this time, but it's going to actually be hard to do LOL. They really value DeMar, but he's the one they could just not resign to avoid the tax. What they would really like to do is unload Lavine and probably Vucevic too, but they've signed both to nearly untradeable contracts. My guess is they at least unload Vooch, his contract being slightly easier to trade as a much lower figure than Lavine.
I just saw that too. Not sure how legit it is, but holy..... That's $1.9 million less than his current deal but with one less year.
Absolutely bonkers if they've offered him that much. I'm not a cap person, but I'd imagine that would seriously handicap them over the summer if DeMar takes that deal.
It would be somewhere around the #23rd highest salary in the league next year, which seems about right if you look at it in the abstract (obviously not all players who make money are paid fairly. $40 million would put him between Ben Simmons and Kyrie Irving, and you can see for yourself the gulf between those two in delivering value.)
Seems like a thing you could instantly discard but it comes from KC Johnson, who speaks in His Master's Voice. These assholes never leak information without purpose, my reiny sense is twitching that after DeMar said he wanted some competitive changes, this was the return volley. His agent can only say "No that never happened," and might not WANT to define the parameters of a contract offer for potential suitors so early in the process. But now, the information is out there, people will cite it in arguments in 2033 about the luxury tax, and if he signs somewhere for less now, he will seem stupid, spiteful or both. We can call this The Ben Gordon Technique.
Also it is funny to me that Karnisovas has managed to tilt the conversation into fans clamoring for rebuilding, losing and cutting salary and The Org stubbornly wanting to retain veterans. This whole fucking team is a psy-op, the Bulls are the InfoWars of sports.
To think the Bulls could have two of the 23 highest paid players in the league next year and still be mid AF is so depressing.
Especially since neither are top 30 players in the league, one doesn't even want to be on the team, and the other will be 35 by the time next season begins.
I bet there are really crazy analytics out there that correlate salary and wins.
Two dudes paid that much would be pretty bad considering their proven performance as teammtes. I think you get into more trouble in the $19 to $30 range, though. That's around #50 to #80 by salary rank and it's just full of guys who you look and think "Oh, he's nice, you can probably do better though." The John Collins/Cameron Johnson Triangle.
Unfortunately the Bulls have two players in this muddle, one reason why their payroll total is almost identical to Sacramento's, another team that was eliminated in the play-in but with insanely better players than Chicago has. Also, the team is about to hit a "generational" rut because the majority of our high performing draft picks on their rookie extensions will be playing for Orlando.
What do you think would be a fair contract? DDR wants a longer contract and both parties should want it to be tradable. A four year contract would take him through his 19th year.
DeMar's market is limited because of his game and age. DeMar will get a maximum of a 3 year contract offer on the open market because a 4 year FA contract will be drawn into the protocol of the Over 38 Rule. DeMar's birthday is in August, the league starts each "season" on October 1, so the 4th year of a contract he'd be 38, and would be counted as a "zero" year. For cap purposes, the salary of his 4th year would be divvied up into 1/3rds and added to each of the first 3 years of the deal. So nobody can sign him as a free agent to a "tradable" 4 year contract. They can sign him for 3 (which wouldn't invoke the Over 38 Rule even if he were older). The Bulls can offer 4 without invoking it as he's their own FA, and if that's what he wants then he's got just one option for it.
Just going to say that I don't think the contract will be tradable at any time, in the near term because he's 35 and has a very unique game (basically the same reason the Bulls were able to acquire him) and in the long term because you will eat the last year of his contract at a minimum. If I were in charge of the Bulls I would level with him that I'm going to do things to this team that would turn his stomach, it'll be the kind of team he wouldn't want to be around at his age, and urge his agent to seek out sign-and-trade opportunities. I like DeMar, as a fan I would like to watch him until he retires but he's 30% of the cap that is untradeable for a team that badly needs to restock on everything.
That's a bit of a cop out, if I were really in a situation to re-sign him (all other details being irrelevant) I would offer 3 years/$100 million, knocking it down some if he wants a 4th year. And I'd do so knowing that the 3rd or 4th year or both would be pretty hurtful to watch.
Answers like that are why I appreciate you and some of the others around here.
I had never even heard of the over 38 rule. I did some quick reading and I don't fully grok it. The actual rule seems to state that the over 38 clause doesn't apply to any 4 year contract with the players current team, if they hold Bird rights.
Since it doesn't apply to the contract, doesn't that mean that is the case even after the contract is traded? I don't see any reference to changes if the contract is traded. Chris Paul's current contract fell under this category and I haven't seen anything about that being a concern in his trades.
Hey thanks, and the hilarious part is that Chris Paul was head of the player's association when they changed it from "Over 36" to "Over 38" lol
It's massively complicated for how rarely it's invoked. As far as I know, if you re-sign with your old team for 4 years, the Over 38 isn't invoked if you're traded later. I do not know if that is the case with a sign-and-trade, though.
IIRC, I read that sign and trade deals are subject to the over 38 rule.
Assuming that is correct, they couldn't sign and trade him, but they could sign him to a front loaded 4 year contract that would get DDR a big payday, but be tradable for genuine assets at the '25-'26 deadline, all without invoking the over 38 clause.
Assuming the two year $80M offer was legit, how about something like: 45M/20M/15M/10M
I've got to imagine that unless DDR has a huge falloff next year, teams will look at those terms and think he could help a contender at those prices.
Bulls shouldn't sign DDR. Will be 36 years old next season. Bulls can't get past the play-in games with DDR. So why will next season be any different? Bulls should consider resigning Patrick Williams. Let Williams assume DDR's position on the team. Bulls can let the rest of the league make offers to Williams and match if reasonable. Same strategy when the Bulls signed LaVine to a four year contract for a total of $78 million back in 2018.
DDR isn't the reason they couldn't get past the play in. Having $60M in hugely negative contracts (Zach and Lonzo) and another $20M in a net negative contract (Vuc) against only $22M in actively good contracts (Coby and Caruso) is why we can't make it out of the play in.
Swap out Lonzo or Zach for someone who actually sees the floor and isn't a net negative as a starter or Vuc for someone who is a net positive as a starter and we likely avoid the play in entirely.
Don't think just swapping out is simple. What team could possibly want Ball? Bulls have been eating Ball's contract and probably will have to again for one more season. Just the way it goes, can't be helped.
Every season is bullshit season with anything the Reinsdorks own. What a confederacy of dunces!
Not sure if it's on YouTube again after the post-deadline fiasco, here is the web location: https://www.nba.com/bulls/bullstv/live
https://www.youtube.com/live/hhwXFoRnqtQ?si=tWpd_6Zi2zudyIbV
I'm not even sure there was enough there to 'recap'
He once again said 'accountability' but didn't actually hold himself accountable
Whatever credit for saying the right thing ("need to make changes" "I have to be better") is countered in that it was a year too late
Feel like that's the motto with this org - "a year too late"
The "story," I think, is that he read his mea culpa from a prepared text. Considering how different it was than when we've seen him freestyle, I suspect this was a PR move.
Like The Dorf says, best thing you can do is finish in 2nd and give your fans hope. Karnosovas' appearances have basically clubbed the hope out of fans like they were baby seals.
So we know the PR department is working?
If they actually aimed for 2nd I'd like it 10000x more than setting the pathetic goals they've been setting for the last several years.
The main takeaway here is that it took AK over a year to realize what everyone else on the planet had already concluded. If he truly had the greenlight from ownership to rebuild as he claimed, then this should have been a resignation and not an explanation.
"We cannot roll the same team again and expect different results"
"Even with some of the positivity... with you know, with clutch wins and overtime wins, we're still at 39 and we play in. And we have to somehow generate an additional 10 wins."
"This group hasn't worked"
That's blunt.
I did not expect that much candidness or awareness from him. He should have said it and acted on it over a year ago, but I did not expect it from him at all at this point.
The only question AK actually answered directly was the question about whether or not there needed to be changes made to the front office. His answer was an emphatic "No!"
On the other hand, I was surprised by how much he admitted the team hadn't worked out and that changes were going to be made. I suppose after you've blatantly lied for so long you have to eventually throw the people a bone just so you don't lose your job.
I didn't watch any of it but saw some of DeRozan's comments. He at least seemed to be like fucking do something already lol.
Another year, another justifiable season-ending exhortation to ritual suicide for the front office. Some people just won't take the offramp toward personal and professional dignity.
Job market is bad right now, I too would love to be at a company where I can do fuck all and still be employed for life. At some point reinsdorf has to know that AI can do the same type of GM job as AKME right? Maybe AI would try too hard?
A few things were made clear during Jerry's Big Adventure in Springfield last month. He's trying to sew everything up in the next 5 years because he doesn't think he can count on being alive much longer than that, and he said openly that it would be extreme onerous for his heirs to retain both teams rather than selling after he dies, and he expects his heirs will sell.
For Sox fans, you're going to get fucked. The state seems extremely uninterested in adding to the valuation of the Reinsdorf Family Trust, thank goodness, so the rest of us are okay.
For the Bulls I don't know what this means. When Boylen said he was acting as team "CEO," I think that reflected the general paralysis that predates Karnisovas and Eversley and Donovan. I think the Bulls are in a position to be sold as-is, but still fatten the fuck out of his bank account every year. Logically he shouldn't rock the boat. And rationally "what they should do" and "what they can do" have been narrowed down into a very small realm of possibilities, few of which have anything to do with individual players or emotional investment. And practically they don't want to do much (I mean even physical exertion) or spend much (beyond what the league makes them spend), so there's a balance to be sought there as well as some of these decisions are going to be made for them.
I don't think they'll "bring it all back" because that would cost the most money (lol at the idea of ever going into the luxury tax until that guy dies and we boo his widow). DeMar may just sign for a couple years but he's probably not offering a cash discount on his current salary. Patrick Williams is not getting less than he made last year. Everyone else's salaries are incrementally higher in excess of the increase in the luxury tax threshold.
Plan B probably consists of The Rondo Agenda: conceal that you're shipping a bunch of shit out by bringing lower-paid shit in. Toss out Derrick Rose for Jerian Grant by adding a "splashy" Rondo. In the 2024 context this would mean DeMar walking (more likely getting a sign and trade) and signing Chris Paul for a fraction of what DeMar was paid.
Plan C would be Le Reddit Blow It All Up, which involves the most effort and ultimately still a lot of money.
The irony of any post-DeMar Bulls team in 2025 is that if "successful" they will be surrendering a first round pick for a guy who longer plays here, which GMs are mercilessly ridiculed for. In the language of Erving Goffman, Karnisovas most definitely considers himself a shrewd operator and I don't think he can handle that ego death. That shouldn't be a a factor but it is. So I would think he has a strong personal aversion to Plan B, and will try to swing it toward a plan that either retains DeMar or snorts a few lines of Quin Snyder Marching Powder and nukes it down to bedrock at all costs (within reason eh). Thanks for coming to my TedX Talk: Live at Kennedy-King Community College.
unsurprisingly, there's low expectations for the team and that extends towards low expectations for press conferences
AK was not offensively stupid but beyond his prepared statement he still let slip that he's in way over his head
best example was regarding Lonzo. Asked "don't you need to evaluate Lonzo's status before the draft? and you're saying you're going to wait a few months?"
AK: 😐 ::pausing to consider the mere concept of proactivity:: "we will wait and see"
Whew. Glad that’s over.
What I get from this is that they will really try to do something this time, but it's going to actually be hard to do LOL. They really value DeMar, but he's the one they could just not resign to avoid the tax. What they would really like to do is unload Lavine and probably Vucevic too, but they've signed both to nearly untradeable contracts. My guess is they at least unload Vooch, his contract being slightly easier to trade as a much lower figure than Lavine.
Reports are saying we offered DDR an $80M two year deal. Am I out of touch with the current pay scale or is that ridiculously high?
I just saw that too. Not sure how legit it is, but holy..... That's $1.9 million less than his current deal but with one less year.
Absolutely bonkers if they've offered him that much. I'm not a cap person, but I'd imagine that would seriously handicap them over the summer if DeMar takes that deal.
Does it matter?
As long as fans keep showing up and buying merchandise. I just read Bulls led league in attendance and were #5 in merchandise sale
It would be somewhere around the #23rd highest salary in the league next year, which seems about right if you look at it in the abstract (obviously not all players who make money are paid fairly. $40 million would put him between Ben Simmons and Kyrie Irving, and you can see for yourself the gulf between those two in delivering value.)
Seems like a thing you could instantly discard but it comes from KC Johnson, who speaks in His Master's Voice. These assholes never leak information without purpose, my reiny sense is twitching that after DeMar said he wanted some competitive changes, this was the return volley. His agent can only say "No that never happened," and might not WANT to define the parameters of a contract offer for potential suitors so early in the process. But now, the information is out there, people will cite it in arguments in 2033 about the luxury tax, and if he signs somewhere for less now, he will seem stupid, spiteful or both. We can call this The Ben Gordon Technique.
Also it is funny to me that Karnisovas has managed to tilt the conversation into fans clamoring for rebuilding, losing and cutting salary and The Org stubbornly wanting to retain veterans. This whole fucking team is a psy-op, the Bulls are the InfoWars of sports.
To think the Bulls could have two of the 23 highest paid players in the league next year and still be mid AF is so depressing.
Especially since neither are top 30 players in the league, one doesn't even want to be on the team, and the other will be 35 by the time next season begins.
I bet there are really crazy analytics out there that correlate salary and wins.
Two dudes paid that much would be pretty bad considering their proven performance as teammtes. I think you get into more trouble in the $19 to $30 range, though. That's around #50 to #80 by salary rank and it's just full of guys who you look and think "Oh, he's nice, you can probably do better though." The John Collins/Cameron Johnson Triangle.
Unfortunately the Bulls have two players in this muddle, one reason why their payroll total is almost identical to Sacramento's, another team that was eliminated in the play-in but with insanely better players than Chicago has. Also, the team is about to hit a "generational" rut because the majority of our high performing draft picks on their rookie extensions will be playing for Orlando.
What do you think would be a fair contract? DDR wants a longer contract and both parties should want it to be tradable. A four year contract would take him through his 19th year.
DeMar's market is limited because of his game and age. DeMar will get a maximum of a 3 year contract offer on the open market because a 4 year FA contract will be drawn into the protocol of the Over 38 Rule. DeMar's birthday is in August, the league starts each "season" on October 1, so the 4th year of a contract he'd be 38, and would be counted as a "zero" year. For cap purposes, the salary of his 4th year would be divvied up into 1/3rds and added to each of the first 3 years of the deal. So nobody can sign him as a free agent to a "tradable" 4 year contract. They can sign him for 3 (which wouldn't invoke the Over 38 Rule even if he were older). The Bulls can offer 4 without invoking it as he's their own FA, and if that's what he wants then he's got just one option for it.
Just going to say that I don't think the contract will be tradable at any time, in the near term because he's 35 and has a very unique game (basically the same reason the Bulls were able to acquire him) and in the long term because you will eat the last year of his contract at a minimum. If I were in charge of the Bulls I would level with him that I'm going to do things to this team that would turn his stomach, it'll be the kind of team he wouldn't want to be around at his age, and urge his agent to seek out sign-and-trade opportunities. I like DeMar, as a fan I would like to watch him until he retires but he's 30% of the cap that is untradeable for a team that badly needs to restock on everything.
That's a bit of a cop out, if I were really in a situation to re-sign him (all other details being irrelevant) I would offer 3 years/$100 million, knocking it down some if he wants a 4th year. And I'd do so knowing that the 3rd or 4th year or both would be pretty hurtful to watch.
Answers like that are why I appreciate you and some of the others around here.
I had never even heard of the over 38 rule. I did some quick reading and I don't fully grok it. The actual rule seems to state that the over 38 clause doesn't apply to any 4 year contract with the players current team, if they hold Bird rights.
Since it doesn't apply to the contract, doesn't that mean that is the case even after the contract is traded? I don't see any reference to changes if the contract is traded. Chris Paul's current contract fell under this category and I haven't seen anything about that being a concern in his trades.
Hey thanks, and the hilarious part is that Chris Paul was head of the player's association when they changed it from "Over 36" to "Over 38" lol
It's massively complicated for how rarely it's invoked. As far as I know, if you re-sign with your old team for 4 years, the Over 38 isn't invoked if you're traded later. I do not know if that is the case with a sign-and-trade, though.
IIRC, I read that sign and trade deals are subject to the over 38 rule.
Assuming that is correct, they couldn't sign and trade him, but they could sign him to a front loaded 4 year contract that would get DDR a big payday, but be tradable for genuine assets at the '25-'26 deadline, all without invoking the over 38 clause.
Assuming the two year $80M offer was legit, how about something like: 45M/20M/15M/10M
I've got to imagine that unless DDR has a huge falloff next year, teams will look at those terms and think he could help a contender at those prices.
Bulls shouldn't sign DDR. Will be 36 years old next season. Bulls can't get past the play-in games with DDR. So why will next season be any different? Bulls should consider resigning Patrick Williams. Let Williams assume DDR's position on the team. Bulls can let the rest of the league make offers to Williams and match if reasonable. Same strategy when the Bulls signed LaVine to a four year contract for a total of $78 million back in 2018.
DDR isn't the reason they couldn't get past the play in. Having $60M in hugely negative contracts (Zach and Lonzo) and another $20M in a net negative contract (Vuc) against only $22M in actively good contracts (Coby and Caruso) is why we can't make it out of the play in.
Swap out Lonzo or Zach for someone who actually sees the floor and isn't a net negative as a starter or Vuc for someone who is a net positive as a starter and we likely avoid the play in entirely.
Don't think just swapping out is simple. What team could possibly want Ball? Bulls have been eating Ball's contract and probably will have to again for one more season. Just the way it goes, can't be helped.
Didn't take issue with the press conference, but mostly because I stopped giving a shit about what AK says a long time ago.