that's a good question on Essengue's draft medicals. Billy did make it seem like this was a long-term issue they would have known about. Or this GLeague injury was the first time, out of the blue?
but the biggest reason to believe this 'report' is that it sounds like something AKME would say. They just said it in a more sourced report regarding Anthony Davis a couple days ago.
They say it all the time in public: they think they have a good young core and they did a good job please don't fire us
I LOL'd when I first saw this and was like "How is Lou Canellis reporting this?" and then I remembered that he and Giannis are both Avli partners, a Greek restaurant chain in Chicago/burbs/Milwaukee (I recommend!). So there actually is a chance he got some kind of scoop here lol
Vuc wants out because he is now FULLY exposed on both ends as ridiculously bad. Watching him in games is a comedy routine, he just walks around/gets spun around on defense as both bigs and small guards score at will at the rim over him and then 'hustles' down to make sure he gets his offensive touches (hitting an occasional three or jump hook to camouflage the bulk of his horrendous turnovers/weak finishes). I guess I myself am now...almost....fully....Boylen-level....out?
basically the Bulls should offer everything. Buzelis and (maybe) Giddey are positive assets. But they can take on every long-term salary Milwaukee has, and reduce this year's payroll too by taking their vets for our young bums.
all that said it's kind of a 'volume' offer, and it can be trumped by anyone offering an actual blue-chip prospect or lotto pick. Another failing for AKME regime (add it to the list)
I just don't even know if Giddey or Buzelis are guys I'd care about if I were the Bucks. Obviously Matas would have value, but I even have my doubts there. They'd probably prefer to just not have to eat Pat's contract and get out from under Portis.
If I were them that's what I'd prefer. I'd rather have extra picks and expirings not be tied down to another bad contract. They're going to be terrible no matter what, and Matas will be up for a raise before they have a prayer of being good.
And he's not such a good player that I think he's an obvious or even likely star.
yes I agree, the Bulls don't have the assets. As Zach Lowe said on his podcast today it'd be smart for the Bucks to bet against the Bulls (taking far-future unprotected picks) so it's not the worst assets, but it's not like several in play in the '26 draft
I think you're proposal is fun, but there's just so much volume of crap players in it. A straight trade of Giannis for a commensurate value in expirings, players and picks would be Vuc, White, Huerter (expiring salary matches), Buzelis, Essengue, '26, '28, '30, '32 1st round picks. The Bucks get salary relief next season, an interesting young player in Buzelis, the equivalent of 5 FRPs (which seems to be the cost of a superstar these days). The Bulls end up as Giannis, (Some burly G-leaguer or buy-out who's still better than PWill), Okoro, Dosonmu and Giddey, which is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ but maybe enough for the 8th seed. I don't even think Milwaukee would bite on this, since serious teams can offer *good* young players along with picks.
I don't think most other teams, especially teams that Giannis might want to play for, can offer much in the way of young players and picks. When you stop being theoretical and get down to specifics, most teams don't have many picks and if they trade away their better players, they will no longer be attractive to Giannis.
Outside of the Hawks, who I think are the obvious place, I don't see it. Relatively big market. Big expiring contract (Porzingis). They could give the Bucks their pick back under their control, and give them the Pelicans pick too. Those are potentially two great picks in this year's draft which is very strong. That'd basically be an immediate rebuild option that they couldn't get elsewhere. Maybe I'm missing something, but they could give the best picks, the soonest picks, and also maybe Rischasser and some cap relief.
I don't know if Giannis would go for that, but a Tre Young, Jalen Johnson, Giannis + Turner lineup looks like a plausible contender, especially coming out of the east. Seems like the best case for all parties, but I don't know how much trust or desire would be there for Giannis to play there. If he thinks Tre Young is a poser, or he's been stuck in the Atlanta airport too much, maybe he doesn't like it. But to me it hits the sweet spot where it's good enough for everyone and they might say yes.
The Atlanta scenario is by far the best. Those are banger picks. I feel like the Knicks could cobble together a package with Anunoby, Robinson and whatever firsts and swaps get them past the Stepien rule. Giannis and Brunson would be unstoppable.
there are a couple beyond the Hawks who have blue chippers and good picks.
The Rockets have future Phoenix firsts, a Nets first, and Amen Thompson or Sengun. Spurs have that Kings swap in 2031, which isn't great but they could include Harper or Castle.
I maintain that Giannis should demand to stay in the East. That's the biggest competitive edge.
the Portland pick the Bulls own is ranked #36. The Hawks owning the Pels/Bucks pick is #1, and it's even more valuable to the Bucks as then they don't have to 'worry' about their record this year
I think the play for Atlanta is send them Trae Young as the big outgoing salary. I suppose there's a danger in Young raising their floor too much for 2026 lotter odds, but it's not that big of a danger given how much he's injured and his general Trae Young -ness
I think the point of getting Giannis would be to end up with everybody else gone except him and Giddey. We trade Matas, Noa, Pat, Tre, Jalen, and Isaac. And all our picks.
We would have over $80 million of cap space if we did that. We could use that to sign Reaves, Hartenstein and Grimes, let's say. There will be a lot of players available this off season and we will have an open checkbook (haha) and Giannis recruiting for us, so we could pivot to other players too. The point is we should be signing free agents instead of taking on Milwaukee's crap. They will be rebuilding, they can pay some bad contracts the next couple years.
After that potential starting 5 we would have a $9 million room excaption and a $6 million BAE to use, so we could even build a rotation, before filling out the roster with minimums.
If Giannis wanted to waste one of the least years of his career, he wouldn't be demanding a trade in the first place. He's not coming here or anywhere else if he thinks he doesn't have a chance this year.
That's just galaxy brain thinking. Plus, if you were Giannis, would you trust Reinsdorf to spend? Fuck no.
I doubt Giannis wants to come to the Bulls so he can bring Portis and Kuzma along. Sure it would be nice to get Turner too but let's be realistic. (Haha, like Giannis to the Bulls could in any way be realistic.) But to respond to your point, our best players, other than Giddey, are our expiring contracts. After the trade we would have a starting five of Giannis, Giddey, Coby, Vuc and Huerter. Maybe switch out Collins for Vuc and Ayo for Huerter. It's not a bad rotation, certainly better than what he's working with now.
Calf soreness could either be a player's way of saying Please trade me, or a team's way of Tanking. I don't feel a team has to reveal all of its thinking and actions to the media, nor do I feel compelled to develop theories behind everything that happens, tho I do at times. It always was a rebuilding year. I didn't pay for a subscription to CHSN which might by why I'm not angry. There are other sports going on.
Maybe this is galaxy brain, but getting an injured star at a discount, hanging on to their 2026 pick, and punting on this year to get a high pick feels like the only building path that might actually work. Giannis would be the ideal target and AD to a lesser extent. A la drafting Tim Duncan the year after David Robinson was injured. Problem is Giannis and AD are maybe not injured enough, and they'd muff the punt.
Yeah, I think it is. Giannis is demanding a trade because he wants to be on a good team. He's not gonna tank the rest of this season and just on the hope that the Bulls luck into a top pick (who may or may not be good) and that Reinsdorf suddenly starts flinging money around.
It's just not even remotely plausible.
For the Bulls, or any team, they're going to have to be able to put a team around him that Giannis thinks won't be a waste of his dwindling time.
Maybe the play is Zion then. Would have to send out several role player contributors, and Zion just won't play (because he never does) and you "accidently" tank
That backfires if indeed Zion never plays and I'm not just taking a shot at him
Ya know, I think you're onto something here. I've always been anti-Zion because he'd cost more than he's worth. But maybe the point in pursuing him shouldn't be in hopes that he actually stays healthy, but because AK will accidentally send this team into a tank if he goes after Zion.
“He’s been dealing with some shoulder stuff to begin with, and I think he ended up going up for a rebound, and his arm got jerked,” Donovan said. “He didn’t dislocate his shoulder, but he’s got some looseness and some movement in there that they need to kind of tighten up for him, or that’s going to probably continue to happen.”
...
the recommendation was to get it fixed now instead of waiting, because it’s something that could continue to be a problem for him.
...
“He can go a period of time and be totally fine,” Donovan continued. “Or, it could end up happening at any time. The problem is, when it does happen, you’re probably dealing with a week to 10 days that he could be out, and this would be something he’d have to continue to deal with.
======================
In short, the portrayal of this as some kind of bad luck freak injury is extremely misleading. Noa was broken from the start. He didn't just suffer some fall or something. He was fragile. Maybe the Bulls couldn't have known this, but maybe they could if they had done their homework. Maybe they did and didn't care. But it opens up a lot of possibilities that they made some bad/lazy decisions.
The Bulls are also making explicit that this was Noa's decision and not saying they agreed with it. Noa's thought process seems to be that he could have been totally fine, or he could have missed a week somewhere along the line, or he could have the surgery in the summer, but he figured the best course of action was to miss the rest of the season's actual games and practices so he could ensure he's ready to train in the summer. That's... interesting.
I can't criticize Essengue here. It's not like the coaching or environment on the Bulls is going to help him improve as a basketball player. What's he gonna learn from Billy Jr. on the Windy City Bulls? How to benefit from family connections?
Pretty obvious he's gonna be another bust and we'll still be talking about the lack of starting level talent on this roster 5 years from now. Right now these guys have a maximum of 2 players on their roster who should be starting games in the NBA. It's goddamn absurd.
yes this was mentioned earlier in the comments, what did the Bulls know on draft night?
I didn't make note of Billy saying "to begin with"...which could be damning but he could be wrong, and good reason why the Org. shouldn't have Billy being the only communicator of such things
it's been a longstanding AK ethos that offseason is for improvement, the regular season is not meant to develop players, outside of putting them in a 'competitive environment' (if they earn Billy's trust)
>Noa Essengue will have surgery on Wednesday. He says he dislocated his shoulder twice — the first time was two years ago. He’s electing to have surgery now to prevent it from happening again
So it was something known - or at least should have been known - before the draft that his shoulder joint was a bit 'loose'
Not sure I understand the last line. What's so interesting about this?
The only implication that I get is that he wasn't going to get any development from the Bulls anyway so he's saving himself for summer work with his team.
Well, the Bulls drafted a guy who seemed to have shoulder issues. I was reading elsewhere and someone was saying he'd frequently have his shoulder wrapped after games last year. So, I find it interesting that the Bulls drafted a guy who obviously had something going on with his shoulder.
Apparently this was somewhat recognized early on because he also had some kind of treatments on it during summer league. At least, that's what I read.
As far as saving himself for summer work, I think that's kind of silly. It's like saying you're going to quit your job to train for your job.
I think it's pretty likely that he just sucks unfortunately. I'm actually a little encouraged by the fact of the injury, because it at least raises the possibility that instead of just sucking, he had a correctable reason for sucking so bad he couldn't even get token minutes.
A Bulls team with an aging center who was brought in with high hopes; a young core that management is afraid to trade in exchange for a generational talent, a flailing GM, and a coach who secretly hates it here...
"History doesn't repeat itself but it often rhymes."
So I heard Ricky say on the latest episode of Cash Considerations that the Bulls are stuck on mediocrity. I’m going to push back: I think they’re stuck in a place worse than that.
Think about this - how many rosters in the league are definitively worse than the Bulls? I’d argue 5 or 6 (Wizards, Nets, Hornets, Pelicans, Kings, and maybe the Jazz). So if you have a roster around 24th best in the league, you’re not mediocre. You’re bad. The main distinction is that the Bulls are one of the only bad teams not trying to lose.
AK will surely cry injuries next time he deigns to talk. But his doing so implies his draft picks, who have opportunity now, are busts that can't even match other team fringe player contributions.
Game Score on Friday:
Jay Huff - 19.7
Ethan Thompson - 11.9
(both undrafted, and available)
Patrick Williams - 2.2
Dalen Terry - 3.9
Julian Phillips - 5.9
weirdly, AK was telegraphing he knows they're busts by bringing in vets to play over them. But he won't do the next logical step of cutting bait because that would be admitting a mistake.
I know he'll say "we can't evaluate due to injuries" but the silver lining is that we can evaluate these three.
Yeah the injuries excuse will be seen as nonsense to everyone other than the Reinsdorfs. Especially for games like last night when Coby, Giddey, Vuc, and Buzelis all played.
Also, I’m so tired of people like AK thinking injuries serve as a “get out of jail free” card. Buddy, if you’ve built a below average team that can’t stay healthy, that’s not ok!
On the post-game show, Kendall Gill was going on about what "force" Jay Huff was, and how Vuc, Giddey, Coby etc just couldn't expect to get into the paint against that level of player.
Kendall has really distinguished himself the last couple years as a delusional homer, maybe why he's the remaining studio show member from NBCSportsChi
I'm wondering... the story is the Bulls assembling "good" role players. What if they are not able to reckon role players ? I mean they're far from "impact" players but Wendell Carter Jr, Daniel Gafford, Bobby Portis were all traded away (well, maybe not by AKME, but I don't see much difference in successive FOs anyway) and actually managed to carve out a role in teams that were good, at some point. It's of course more complex than just what they accomplished with their franchises, but... I'm wondering^^
They definitely cant recognize or develop talent. They traded Kornet for Theis who is out of the league. Gafford for Tory Brown. Also out of the league. Carter was a better player than Vuc like a year after that trade. Plus’s everything else they gave up.
4 years of “developing “Dalen Terry” has molded him into exactly the same fringe NBA player he was as a rookie. Pat’s career has been a continuous slide from his rookie year. Julian Phillips is another fringe player.
Jalen Smith is exactly the same disappointing tease he was at his two previous stops, and we gave him a three year deal for no obvious reason. The Cavs desperately tried to replace Okoro for several years and the Bulls traded for him to do exactly what he couldnt do in Cleveland. Noa was apparently damaged goods.
Jones and Huerter are complete replacement level players who translated a 20 game outlier performance into way more cache than thaey should have.
They get credit, i guess for developing Ayo from a quality 8th man into a quality 7th man, and The fact that you read people simultaneously complaining that they dont let Matas do anything and that they are screwing him by letting him go out and foul like crazy and turn the ball over when he dribbles the ball into traffic with his hs point guard handle probably means the are doing things right with hom, but that most of the developing is on him.
Their lack of ability to cut bait on the obvious scrubs is maddening.
I think a lot of us tried to wishcast on Pat when he got that ridiculous contract that he honestly showed that it was highly unlikely he would grow into being worthy of. It was obviously by the beginning of year 2 that Dalen was a fringe NBA player, same goes for Julian Phillips. Phillips's absolute ceiling was Derrick Jones Jr....im sorry but that's not something worth investing years in.
They've made so many dumbass fringe moves too...the Okoro trade was beyond stupid when they could got an actual asset for Lonzo.
Jalen Smith was a silly signing, why would you prioritze backup center and esp on an obv fools gold guy like Smith.
Matas is just a guy, i don't see him making the leap the team needs him to make. Like he needs to become an Allstar level guy by next year....i don't think he's a bust and he will round out to be pretty solid but that aint enough.
Also no clue why we drafted Noa when we could pushed to do the deal with NOLA and get that pick next year when the draft is wayyyyy better
As is, we aren't even gonna be a play in team as the East isn't as shit as it usually is. Our only chance is Milwaukee trading Giannis
How do we go from a team that can beat the Pistons, Knicks, Magic and Nuggets, to a squad that is losing to the worst teams in the league?
And how does a young team have literally half their roster on the injury report six weeks into the season?
The answer to those questions is "Because Bulls", I know.
A real question: Do you think AK was aware of Noa's shoulder when we drafted him, or is that something that just came up?
that's a good question on Essengue's draft medicals. Billy did make it seem like this was a long-term issue they would have known about. Or this GLeague injury was the first time, out of the blue?
Sounds like the Bulls training staff is just as apathetic as the management team.
It does get worse
https://x.com/670TheScore/status/1996617950128914587?s=20
That's incredible. I thought Giannis would have no interest (rightfully so). This is full-on malpractice (again).
on the one hand, it's just Lou Canellis
but the biggest reason to believe this 'report' is that it sounds like something AKME would say. They just said it in a more sourced report regarding Anthony Davis a couple days ago.
They say it all the time in public: they think they have a good young core and they did a good job please don't fire us
I LOL'd when I first saw this and was like "How is Lou Canellis reporting this?" and then I remembered that he and Giannis are both Avli partners, a Greek restaurant chain in Chicago/burbs/Milwaukee (I recommend!). So there actually is a chance he got some kind of scoop here lol
Oof.
Vuc wants out because he is now FULLY exposed on both ends as ridiculously bad. Watching him in games is a comedy routine, he just walks around/gets spun around on defense as both bigs and small guards score at will at the rim over him and then 'hustles' down to make sure he gets his offensive touches (hitting an occasional three or jump hook to camouflage the bulk of his horrendous turnovers/weak finishes). I guess I myself am now...almost....fully....Boylen-level....out?
Thinking about a world where the Bulls weren’t nonsensical and actually considered a Giannis trade:
I wonder if something like Giddey, Buzelis, Ayo, Huerter, and two firsts would get it done.
New starting five: Tre, Coby, Okoro, Giannis, Vuc.
I had flights of fancy about this yesterday.
basically the Bulls should offer everything. Buzelis and (maybe) Giddey are positive assets. But they can take on every long-term salary Milwaukee has, and reduce this year's payroll too by taking their vets for our young bums.
this was the full boat, they have to take Pat but at least he's young? https://bsky.app/profile/blogabull.com/post/3m74hoauyd22s
all that said it's kind of a 'volume' offer, and it can be trumped by anyone offering an actual blue-chip prospect or lotto pick. Another failing for AKME regime (add it to the list)
I know a big issue with Giannis is there's no point if he's going to a team where he's in a similar position in terms of a championship run.
but best thing he can do there is stay in the East. And this post-Bucks trade would be pretty good in Chicago
Jones / White / Kuzma / Giannis / Turner
bench: Ayo, Smith/Portis, Trent/Okoro
I just don't even know if Giddey or Buzelis are guys I'd care about if I were the Bucks. Obviously Matas would have value, but I even have my doubts there. They'd probably prefer to just not have to eat Pat's contract and get out from under Portis.
If I were them that's what I'd prefer. I'd rather have extra picks and expirings not be tied down to another bad contract. They're going to be terrible no matter what, and Matas will be up for a raise before they have a prayer of being good.
And he's not such a good player that I think he's an obvious or even likely star.
yes I agree, the Bulls don't have the assets. As Zach Lowe said on his podcast today it'd be smart for the Bucks to bet against the Bulls (taking far-future unprotected picks) so it's not the worst assets, but it's not like several in play in the '26 draft
I think you're proposal is fun, but there's just so much volume of crap players in it. A straight trade of Giannis for a commensurate value in expirings, players and picks would be Vuc, White, Huerter (expiring salary matches), Buzelis, Essengue, '26, '28, '30, '32 1st round picks. The Bucks get salary relief next season, an interesting young player in Buzelis, the equivalent of 5 FRPs (which seems to be the cost of a superstar these days). The Bulls end up as Giannis, (Some burly G-leaguer or buy-out who's still better than PWill), Okoro, Dosonmu and Giddey, which is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ but maybe enough for the 8th seed. I don't even think Milwaukee would bite on this, since serious teams can offer *good* young players along with picks.
I don't think most other teams, especially teams that Giannis might want to play for, can offer much in the way of young players and picks. When you stop being theoretical and get down to specifics, most teams don't have many picks and if they trade away their better players, they will no longer be attractive to Giannis.
Outside of the Hawks, who I think are the obvious place, I don't see it. Relatively big market. Big expiring contract (Porzingis). They could give the Bucks their pick back under their control, and give them the Pelicans pick too. Those are potentially two great picks in this year's draft which is very strong. That'd basically be an immediate rebuild option that they couldn't get elsewhere. Maybe I'm missing something, but they could give the best picks, the soonest picks, and also maybe Rischasser and some cap relief.
I don't know if Giannis would go for that, but a Tre Young, Jalen Johnson, Giannis + Turner lineup looks like a plausible contender, especially coming out of the east. Seems like the best case for all parties, but I don't know how much trust or desire would be there for Giannis to play there. If he thinks Tre Young is a poser, or he's been stuck in the Atlanta airport too much, maybe he doesn't like it. But to me it hits the sweet spot where it's good enough for everyone and they might say yes.
The Atlanta scenario is by far the best. Those are banger picks. I feel like the Knicks could cobble together a package with Anunoby, Robinson and whatever firsts and swaps get them past the Stepien rule. Giannis and Brunson would be unstoppable.
there are a couple beyond the Hawks who have blue chippers and good picks.
The Rockets have future Phoenix firsts, a Nets first, and Amen Thompson or Sengun. Spurs have that Kings swap in 2031, which isn't great but they could include Harper or Castle.
I maintain that Giannis should demand to stay in the East. That's the biggest competitive edge.
here is a handy preseason ranking I took a quick glance at. https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/which-traded-first-round-nba-draft-picks-have-most-value-ranking-all-63-as-pelicans-recent-mistake-tops-list/
the Portland pick the Bulls own is ranked #36. The Hawks owning the Pels/Bucks pick is #1, and it's even more valuable to the Bucks as then they don't have to 'worry' about their record this year
I think the play for Atlanta is send them Trae Young as the big outgoing salary. I suppose there's a danger in Young raising their floor too much for 2026 lotter odds, but it's not that big of a danger given how much he's injured and his general Trae Young -ness
I think the point of getting Giannis would be to end up with everybody else gone except him and Giddey. We trade Matas, Noa, Pat, Tre, Jalen, and Isaac. And all our picks.
We would have over $80 million of cap space if we did that. We could use that to sign Reaves, Hartenstein and Grimes, let's say. There will be a lot of players available this off season and we will have an open checkbook (haha) and Giannis recruiting for us, so we could pivot to other players too. The point is we should be signing free agents instead of taking on Milwaukee's crap. They will be rebuilding, they can pay some bad contracts the next couple years.
After that potential starting 5 we would have a $9 million room excaption and a $6 million BAE to use, so we could even build a rotation, before filling out the roster with minimums.
If Giannis wanted to waste one of the least years of his career, he wouldn't be demanding a trade in the first place. He's not coming here or anywhere else if he thinks he doesn't have a chance this year.
That's just galaxy brain thinking. Plus, if you were Giannis, would you trust Reinsdorf to spend? Fuck no.
I doubt Giannis wants to come to the Bulls so he can bring Portis and Kuzma along. Sure it would be nice to get Turner too but let's be realistic. (Haha, like Giannis to the Bulls could in any way be realistic.) But to respond to your point, our best players, other than Giddey, are our expiring contracts. After the trade we would have a starting five of Giannis, Giddey, Coby, Vuc and Huerter. Maybe switch out Collins for Vuc and Ayo for Huerter. It's not a bad rotation, certainly better than what he's working with now.
Calf soreness could either be a player's way of saying Please trade me, or a team's way of Tanking. I don't feel a team has to reveal all of its thinking and actions to the media, nor do I feel compelled to develop theories behind everything that happens, tho I do at times. It always was a rebuilding year. I didn't pay for a subscription to CHSN which might by why I'm not angry. There are other sports going on.
Maybe this is galaxy brain, but getting an injured star at a discount, hanging on to their 2026 pick, and punting on this year to get a high pick feels like the only building path that might actually work. Giannis would be the ideal target and AD to a lesser extent. A la drafting Tim Duncan the year after David Robinson was injured. Problem is Giannis and AD are maybe not injured enough, and they'd muff the punt.
Yeah, I think it is. Giannis is demanding a trade because he wants to be on a good team. He's not gonna tank the rest of this season and just on the hope that the Bulls luck into a top pick (who may or may not be good) and that Reinsdorf suddenly starts flinging money around.
It's just not even remotely plausible.
For the Bulls, or any team, they're going to have to be able to put a team around him that Giannis thinks won't be a waste of his dwindling time.
Maybe the play is Zion then. Would have to send out several role player contributors, and Zion just won't play (because he never does) and you "accidently" tank
That backfires if indeed Zion never plays and I'm not just taking a shot at him
Ya know, I think you're onto something here. I've always been anti-Zion because he'd cost more than he's worth. But maybe the point in pursuing him shouldn't be in hopes that he actually stays healthy, but because AK will accidentally send this team into a tank if he goes after Zion.
Courtesy of Will Gottlieb at CHGO. I found the story about Noa's decision to have surgery and the nature of his injury pretty remarkable.
https://allchgo.com/bulls-noa-essengue-season-ending-shoulder-surgery/
“He’s been dealing with some shoulder stuff to begin with, and I think he ended up going up for a rebound, and his arm got jerked,” Donovan said. “He didn’t dislocate his shoulder, but he’s got some looseness and some movement in there that they need to kind of tighten up for him, or that’s going to probably continue to happen.”
...
the recommendation was to get it fixed now instead of waiting, because it’s something that could continue to be a problem for him.
...
“He can go a period of time and be totally fine,” Donovan continued. “Or, it could end up happening at any time. The problem is, when it does happen, you’re probably dealing with a week to 10 days that he could be out, and this would be something he’d have to continue to deal with.
======================
In short, the portrayal of this as some kind of bad luck freak injury is extremely misleading. Noa was broken from the start. He didn't just suffer some fall or something. He was fragile. Maybe the Bulls couldn't have known this, but maybe they could if they had done their homework. Maybe they did and didn't care. But it opens up a lot of possibilities that they made some bad/lazy decisions.
The Bulls are also making explicit that this was Noa's decision and not saying they agreed with it. Noa's thought process seems to be that he could have been totally fine, or he could have missed a week somewhere along the line, or he could have the surgery in the summer, but he figured the best course of action was to miss the rest of the season's actual games and practices so he could ensure he's ready to train in the summer. That's... interesting.
lol he pulled a Scottie Pippen and decided he didn’t want to mess up his summer.
I wonder if part of his thought process was “Well, it’s not like I’m playing this season anyway.”
I can't criticize Essengue here. It's not like the coaching or environment on the Bulls is going to help him improve as a basketball player. What's he gonna learn from Billy Jr. on the Windy City Bulls? How to benefit from family connections?
Pretty obvious he's gonna be another bust and we'll still be talking about the lack of starting level talent on this roster 5 years from now. Right now these guys have a maximum of 2 players on their roster who should be starting games in the NBA. It's goddamn absurd.
yes this was mentioned earlier in the comments, what did the Bulls know on draft night?
I didn't make note of Billy saying "to begin with"...which could be damning but he could be wrong, and good reason why the Org. shouldn't have Billy being the only communicator of such things
it's been a longstanding AK ethos that offseason is for improvement, the regular season is not meant to develop players, outside of putting them in a 'competitive environment' (if they earn Billy's trust)
update on Saturday from Essengue:
@Will_Gottlieb
>Noa Essengue will have surgery on Wednesday. He says he dislocated his shoulder twice — the first time was two years ago. He’s electing to have surgery now to prevent it from happening again
So it was something known - or at least should have been known - before the draft that his shoulder joint was a bit 'loose'
Not sure I understand the last line. What's so interesting about this?
The only implication that I get is that he wasn't going to get any development from the Bulls anyway so he's saving himself for summer work with his team.
Well, the Bulls drafted a guy who seemed to have shoulder issues. I was reading elsewhere and someone was saying he'd frequently have his shoulder wrapped after games last year. So, I find it interesting that the Bulls drafted a guy who obviously had something going on with his shoulder.
Apparently this was somewhat recognized early on because he also had some kind of treatments on it during summer league. At least, that's what I read.
As far as saving himself for summer work, I think that's kind of silly. It's like saying you're going to quit your job to train for your job.
I think it's pretty likely that he just sucks unfortunately. I'm actually a little encouraged by the fact of the injury, because it at least raises the possibility that instead of just sucking, he had a correctable reason for sucking so bad he couldn't even get token minutes.
A Bulls team with an aging center who was brought in with high hopes; a young core that management is afraid to trade in exchange for a generational talent, a flailing GM, and a coach who secretly hates it here...
"History doesn't repeat itself but it often rhymes."
https://www.theledger.com/story/news/2007/11/02/bulls-paxton-puts-down-kobe-trade-rumor/25867334007/
the luxury tax hahahahaha
So I heard Ricky say on the latest episode of Cash Considerations that the Bulls are stuck on mediocrity. I’m going to push back: I think they’re stuck in a place worse than that.
Think about this - how many rosters in the league are definitively worse than the Bulls? I’d argue 5 or 6 (Wizards, Nets, Hornets, Pelicans, Kings, and maybe the Jazz). So if you have a roster around 24th best in the league, you’re not mediocre. You’re bad. The main distinction is that the Bulls are one of the only bad teams not trying to lose.
yes I agree, sub mediocre, it's more just shorthand for not a playoff team and not trying to lose
Bulls/Pacers Game Thread -> https://open.substack.com/chat/posts/8a33c938-76fd-4e65-85a0-c410ac3ef0ed
AK will surely cry injuries next time he deigns to talk. But his doing so implies his draft picks, who have opportunity now, are busts that can't even match other team fringe player contributions.
Game Score on Friday:
Jay Huff - 19.7
Ethan Thompson - 11.9
(both undrafted, and available)
Patrick Williams - 2.2
Dalen Terry - 3.9
Julian Phillips - 5.9
weirdly, AK was telegraphing he knows they're busts by bringing in vets to play over them. But he won't do the next logical step of cutting bait because that would be admitting a mistake.
I know he'll say "we can't evaluate due to injuries" but the silver lining is that we can evaluate these three.
Yeah the injuries excuse will be seen as nonsense to everyone other than the Reinsdorfs. Especially for games like last night when Coby, Giddey, Vuc, and Buzelis all played.
Also, I’m so tired of people like AK thinking injuries serve as a “get out of jail free” card. Buddy, if you’ve built a below average team that can’t stay healthy, that’s not ok!
On the post-game show, Kendall Gill was going on about what "force" Jay Huff was, and how Vuc, Giddey, Coby etc just couldn't expect to get into the paint against that level of player.
Kendall has really distinguished himself the last couple years as a delusional homer, maybe why he's the remaining studio show member from NBCSportsChi
I'm wondering... the story is the Bulls assembling "good" role players. What if they are not able to reckon role players ? I mean they're far from "impact" players but Wendell Carter Jr, Daniel Gafford, Bobby Portis were all traded away (well, maybe not by AKME, but I don't see much difference in successive FOs anyway) and actually managed to carve out a role in teams that were good, at some point. It's of course more complex than just what they accomplished with their franchises, but... I'm wondering^^
They definitely cant recognize or develop talent. They traded Kornet for Theis who is out of the league. Gafford for Tory Brown. Also out of the league. Carter was a better player than Vuc like a year after that trade. Plus’s everything else they gave up.
4 years of “developing “Dalen Terry” has molded him into exactly the same fringe NBA player he was as a rookie. Pat’s career has been a continuous slide from his rookie year. Julian Phillips is another fringe player.
Jalen Smith is exactly the same disappointing tease he was at his two previous stops, and we gave him a three year deal for no obvious reason. The Cavs desperately tried to replace Okoro for several years and the Bulls traded for him to do exactly what he couldnt do in Cleveland. Noa was apparently damaged goods.
Jones and Huerter are complete replacement level players who translated a 20 game outlier performance into way more cache than thaey should have.
They get credit, i guess for developing Ayo from a quality 8th man into a quality 7th man, and The fact that you read people simultaneously complaining that they dont let Matas do anything and that they are screwing him by letting him go out and foul like crazy and turn the ball over when he dribbles the ball into traffic with his hs point guard handle probably means the are doing things right with hom, but that most of the developing is on him.
Their lack of ability to cut bait on the obvious scrubs is maddening.
I think a lot of us tried to wishcast on Pat when he got that ridiculous contract that he honestly showed that it was highly unlikely he would grow into being worthy of. It was obviously by the beginning of year 2 that Dalen was a fringe NBA player, same goes for Julian Phillips. Phillips's absolute ceiling was Derrick Jones Jr....im sorry but that's not something worth investing years in.
They've made so many dumbass fringe moves too...the Okoro trade was beyond stupid when they could got an actual asset for Lonzo.
Jalen Smith was a silly signing, why would you prioritze backup center and esp on an obv fools gold guy like Smith.
Matas is just a guy, i don't see him making the leap the team needs him to make. Like he needs to become an Allstar level guy by next year....i don't think he's a bust and he will round out to be pretty solid but that aint enough.
Also no clue why we drafted Noa when we could pushed to do the deal with NOLA and get that pick next year when the draft is wayyyyy better
As is, we aren't even gonna be a play in team as the East isn't as shit as it usually is. Our only chance is Milwaukee trading Giannis