Per Wikipedia: "William John Donovan Jr. (born May 30, 1965) is an American professional basketball coach and former player who is the head coach for the Chicago Bulls of the National Basketball Association (NBA)."
great question. That is at least inherently for themselves, whereas I feel the Jr. is giving their loser dads (who didn't even make the best league in the world, SMH) some glory
A couple of things about Phillips. One, I'm calling bullshit on his max vert number. When a guy has both a suspiciously high max vert and a suspiciously low standing reach, I call bullshit. Because the max vert isn't measured directly, but is rather equal to the max vert touch point minus the standing reach. So I think sometimes guys short their reach to juice their max vert. I'd guess Phillips' numbers are more like an 8'9-10'' standing reach (instead of 8'6'') and 39-40" max vert (rather than 43").
Second, it looks like he actually got to the rim a ton in college. Over 47% of his shots came at the rim. I keep a database of these numbers going back to 2011, and draftable wings on average take 31% of their shots at the rim.
Appleby was one of the bright spots for the Gators under Billy Donovan's less than stellar successor, Mike White. He transferred around the time White was fired, er, encouraged to go coach our biggest rival.
Wasn’t Dalen Terry’s big asset supposed to be on-ball creation for others, almost like a jumbo PG? I don’t think shooting has ever really been a strength, he shot an ok % his sophomore year at Arizona but very little.
I’m m generally skeptical of taking a college teams 5th best guy in the first round
Man this bout to be the worst team in SL. I can legitimately say the best player on this team peak is the 7-8 guy off the bench. Sanogo going to Europe. Other than Terry nobody on this squad belong on a NBA roster, I don’t even know if he dies
Best Summer League teams aren’t necessarily the ones with the most NBA prospects. A lot of times the overseas or GLeague vets are the best players on the floor.
ak sitting motionless in the stands, who watches julian philips emerge from the lockers in street clothes. smash cut to his desk as we crash zoom onto a unsigned document covered in post-it flags. cut back to ak, who sucks his teeth and grimaces.
So uh what are we supposed to make of this? They're either lowballing him (which, if they have him slated for a roster spot, only hurts themselves in terms of Bird Rights) or he has some irrational idea of what he's worth. Or (as a long shot) Olympiacos or someone has offered him a car and a million expired Greek drachmas to sign. I don't... think there can be any other explanation here. Ideas?
Contract announced today. It's 4 years where year 4 is a team option. I'm assuming that was a sticking point...did AK actually win? Because 3 years guaranteed is still a lot.
Mixed thoughts on this. On the one hand... he got a project in Round 2 and gave him more guaranteed years than any 1st round pick has (though eventually all of them get 3 years picked up). It's theoretically possible though this might be a longer contract than Dalen Terry has lol
On the other hand, if he's an "energy guy" that Garturas said he was last night, then I wouldn't really count on him playing much for awhile. Quite possibly for years.
Gar The First gave Daniel Gafford this contract I believe, which was sensible, though somehow Gafford peaked in Year 2. His stats have been virtually identical ever since then.
"Dalen Terry has 2 points on 1-8 FGs (0-2 on 3s), 5 rebs, 3 asts, 3 turnovers.
decision-making on the offensive end in the first half has been really bad. "Forcing it" would be the kind way to term it. "Out of control" would probably be most fair."
His handles aren't good and his body control isn't either.
Add that to his frame and shooting being issues and I think he's just a miss. A few good guys taken in the 2022 draft after Terry like Branham and Kessler but the Bulls were looking for a good wing larger than 6'6. Problem is that Eason was taken right before the Bulls got to pick so Bulls went fit and got burned. Can't blame them too much but given all the picks they've traded away the last 5 years and going forward, hard to have a complete miss on one of your 1sts.
I don't think his handles are necessarily bad. It just depends on what his role is. His handles are bad for a point guard, but not that bad for a wing who isn't expected to do much ball handling.
I'm a little afraid AKME is hoping Terry will turn into Lonzo and that just isn't going to happen.
Someone needs to get in Terry's ear and tell him the only way he's going to have a decent career in the NBA is if he focuses all of his efforts on becoming a good three point shooter and adding muscle so he can guard other wings and the occasional power forward.
He could absolutely be a solid 3 and D wing if he bulks up and works on his shot, but he needs to be 100% committed to that. We just don't need AKME out there telling him he could be Lonzo some day.
I mean, you could say that of any 6'7 player. He's got a bit of above average court vision and passing abilities but other than that, I'm not sure what he's shown that makes anyone believe he's going to make it. His frame looks hard to bulk up and lots of players improve shooting but it is far from a given to become a good 3 point shooter.
I can see Phillips bypassing Terry quickly on the depth chart if Phillips shows a better catch and shoot ability than Terry. Bigger, stronger, and I think his shooting stroke is actually technically smooth.
Personally, since Christian Wood has reportedly only received vet min offers, I'd take whatever part of the DPE they have below the luxury tax line and sign him. Craig is good but you really need at least 3 wings and PW is a fine 2nd but can Terry and Phillips be a 3rd? I'm not super confident in either to step up. Terry could be out of the league in 2 years and Phllips is an unknown rookie right now that the Bulls may be trying to sign to a two way. Given this is a "one last ride" season before going full rebuild, might as well get one more vet in with some size. Wood on that kind of contract would be easy to move in the future, too.
I'm certainly not disagreeing with you. Terry could very well be a bust. I'm just saying that 3 and D wings are pretty common (because it doesn't necessarily take that much skill to be one), so if Dalen Terry is going to have a place in the league, that's his most likely route.
Agree with you on Wood. I'd like a big that can actually defend, but if the starting lineup is Coby/Carter, Zach, DeMar, Pat and Vooch and then the bench is Coby/Carter, AC, Craig, *insert someone here* and Drummond, I'd happily slot Wood in as the power forward coming off the bench. He'd add a nice scoring punch to that second string too.
This is to say that right now he's a 2 and No D guy?
The NBA continues to puzzle me about this. If I had an NBA team, my G-League affiliate would have nothing but guys that can shoot. I don't care about anything else: just guys who can hit a few ticks above the league average in 3 point shooting. Most were probably the best player their whole life and were never asked to play defense, some can't play but will study player profiles, a few will just be tall and maybe they can do some other stuff. But only shooters, if they can't do that then there is no point at all anymore. Defenses sag and sorry but there's room in the league for like a tiny handful of 6'6" guys who get the rim or only operates in mid-range. Look at all the guys who kind of clawed their way into the NBA, that's a common thread. Those are most of the 2nd rounders who stick around. Give me shooters and I'll teach them something else.
Give me the Ho'State Bulls, I will have their roster filled with nothing but Max Struseseses, it'll smell of Brut and cheeseburgers but goddammit I will have a factory of shooters on their way to the pros.
To be fair, I could totally see Jerry doing that. I mean, it wouldn't be someone from BaB because we're all too negative. But I could see someone on a blog that just constantly praises this team getting a position in the Jerry regime just because Jerry wanted someone to make him feel good.
But that completely goes against his draft day scouting report. His best asset was his play-making ability combined with his height, so you could project an on-ball offensive player with the frame to survive defensively. He never profiled as a shooter, so if he can’t create, he has nearly no path to offensive acceptability. If we’re discussing him as “3 and D” now, that’s a pretty decently large (downward) revision of expectation and asking him to succeed in two things he hasn’t yet at any level.
Prefacing this by I never watch college ball and have no idea what the scouts said, but I'm starting to wonder if AK isn't REALLY using the meager draft picks he has left to replace marginal dudes at the bottom of our rotation. Phillips was said to be a "DJJ replacement." And now what you're saying sounds exactly like Troy Brown Jr, who after leaving here basically came to the same point. There's no place in the NBA for a point forward who can't create and isn't enough of a playmaker to be your primary playmaker, so he's been trying to become a normal 3&D swingman.
I got into an argument about this a few months ago. Not that Troy Brown Jr is, himself, great, but talking about him gets to the point you were making above.
With the Bulls, he shot relatively well and he was what, 22? Just by virtue of the fact he's 6'6" and 220 and can shoot the ball, he should have been kept.
But, the Bulls just don't much value shooting. Or at least they didn't up until this summer.
I agree about this, and I actually like Troy Brown, but the main point is if you let him go you're just going to go out and find another one that's probably not as good, or if he is, more expensive. (Or, if you're the Bulls, you won't sign one at all.) He basically shot a league-average for 3 in his last season here and shot above-average for the Lakers last year. That... seems like what you're looking for?
Right not sure why they were so quick to let him and bring in non-shooters like DJJ. TB Jr was no great shakes but he has been an ok shooter in the last couple years. And now you draft a guy with a similar profile but with almost no shooting skills
I watched his Arizona team quite a bit. Benedict Mathurin was the P10 POTY and second team all American, Tubelis was 1st team all conference and second team AA, and Christian Koloko was first team all conference and an NBA draft pick. Needless to say, to my eye, Terry was the fifth guy on that team’s scouting report (Kerr Kriisa , their PG, over him) and benefitted from having three elite possession finishers and vanishingly little attention from the defense.
He wasn’t a shooter at Arizona, so I don’t see why he’d be now. The tastiest part of his game was always his passing and size, but if he can’t dribble or shoot that’s of very limited utility.
I just think it’s a bad eval, he never profiled as a role player , he profiled, if he worked, as an on-ball guy.
yea Dalen's profile sounds a lot like TB Jr when he came out of college....supposed point forward type with some defensive chops but can't shoot a lick. TB Jr is basically a deep bench guy and always will be and he is way more skilled/polished than Dalen when he hit the league so.....having hopes for Terry being a decent player are earthworm level in my eyes
Both Dos Santos and Drell looked like competent pros. Moses Brown is a no offense center who does everything else really well, he should at least be a 3rd string NBA center. Marquis Nowell is a shorty but was the best player on the court.
Yeah, Nowell could be in the same category as Carlik Jones. Jones was amazing in the G League because he's actually a competent player. He's just too small to be decent in the NBA. Nowell is the same, but even smaller. 😂
I like Moses Brown, not just because he annihilated the Bulls in one of his infrequent starts. He seems to get pushed out in numbers' games, when teams need another PG or shooter and figure they can get away with two Cs. The Bulls' marsupial metabolism is perfect, they kept Marko for years and probably forgot he was even here until Stacy King went on the road and Arturas needed someone else to get things off high shelves.
Bulls posted some clips of Zach, Caruso, and DDR talking to the summer squad. Basically, they all said "go for yours" and it looks like the team took it to heart.
Well if he continues to fail in SL, I think we can pack it in on him being a real player, second year NBA guys are supposed to dominate Sunmer League, not drown, so I sort of think the time for him to work on things is nearly done. The things that got him drafted are not in evidence mostly, that seems like a near fatal problem,
Dalen Terry again looked awful. Bulls my want to forget Ayo and just sign Freeman-Liberty. At least he can shoot. Lewis got injured again. Phillips was a deer in headlights. Lofton Jr is a fatty but the dude is good.
In reponse to some of the Vuc-haters, a half-hearted attempt at why Vuc is a top-15 center and it's borderline absurd to suggest he's a fringe NBA starter...
I posted a list of all the centers I'd rather have then Vucevic, so in a casual way I already gave some context for why I think he's top 15. It seems some would prefer I make some statistical based argument? I'll make the attempt only because I think the Vuc-hating around here has really jumped the shark into comedy lately, and I'll even litter it with some counting stats just to trigger all of the hipster advanced-stats Sophists on BAB who now think "dOuBlE DoUbLeS are for backwater simpeltons!"...
Vuc stats among NBA Centers (roughly speaking depending on how you frame it on data websites):
7th PPG, 5th APG, 5th RPG, 6th 3P%
9th PER
Now for context on the counting stats, hes 5th highest USG% among centers, so some of that counting stat production is admittedly to be expected, but that's also signifcantly lower than he had in Orlando and he's putting up similar stats due to be more efficient on things like hook shots and midrange shooting when asked.
16th eFG%, tied with Embiid and right around other 3 point shooting centers
20th TS%, not great but considering his shot profile it's noteworthy for a center and it's over 2% better than league average
2nd TOV%, right behind Brook
2nd Post-Up volume (among top-10 players, he's 3rd in Post-Up efficiency behind Jokic and Embiid)
Of 74 players averaging 17+ PPG in 2023, Vuc had the lowest average seconds per touch (1.46) - very quick decision maker
90th percentile in mid-range shooting % among all NBA players
For Defense:
Top 5 Deflections/G (2.0)
Top 5 Def-RPG (9.0)
(an aside, his O-Reb aren't much different from other centers who play away from the basket like Jokic, Embiid, Brook, and Porzingis)
8th DRTG
11th Block%
He's the starting center on a Bulls team that was 5th in DRTG, and in the NBA a center is typically the most important defensive position, while surrounded often by guys like DeMar and Zach who he's going to have to switch onto their guys or help on often. Given Vuc is not terribly mobile, that's putting him in a tough spot on defense, but he's surely performed at least average.
I don't see Vucevic as really any worse a defender than a guy like Jokic, who most people consider "passable" or "average", not able to get by on pure athleticisim and can't give you a ton of classic rim protection but he understands schemes well. And he's really the opposite of Drummond, who can give you some rim protection but gets lost out in coverage trying to do the things Vucevic is good at.
But that's all just a very long way of saying I think Vuc is pretty good if not slightly boring, he's around that top-15 NBA center range and not some fringe-starter, and though I wouldn't have signed him to the new contract I won't really waste any time worrying about him making $18.5M in 2023 especially given what Jokic, Embiid, Ayton, Gobert, KAT, and even Brook makes ($25M next season). He was also 2nd to Ayo in games played for Bulls last 2 seasons, and 1st in the NBA among centers in games played the last 2 seasons, playing a style that doesn't focus on mobility or athleticism so should theoretically preserve his playing career
Here are some thoughts I have after watching the first 2 summer league games:
- Terry is trying to do way too much on offense. I can’t even really blame him. He’s in a terrible environment for his development. How many top 20 picks are basically auditioning to not be in the G League after their rookie year? He should be on a young, bad team that can afford to give him minutes to develop his offense on an NBA floor. Instead he’s on an old team that will only give him minutes if he’s a serviceable role player and he’s not good enough for that. Why AK didn’t just draft Kessler to be the backup center is beyond me.
- Similar to Terry, Phillips looks like a serious project. When a guy is barely visible during a summer league game, you don’t feel confident that he’ll be ready to contribute to an NBA roster anytime soon. I’d say his best case scenario is two years away from being a bench player. Good thing he’s a second round pick and will be on a shorter contract, so he can’t afford that timeline! Just wonderful team building by AK.
- The Bull who I’ve been the most impressed with is Jontay Porter. His offensive game looks solid and his size is nice. He got a couple of blocks in the last game. He should be a staple on the Windy City Bulls. Who knows, maybe there’s a future for him as a deep bench player.
- Sanogo has looked pretty good. He’s incredibly comfortable out there and could be one of those guys who dominates in the G League.
Not slamming the Kessler pick in. Is still a REAL head scratcher. Nations best rim protector. In a strong conference. Only 20 y/o at the time of the draft. Filled a position of need. Was like a blinking light flashing at them!
Porter... he might be a guy in the G League, but he'd bring a type of player that this team is entirely lacking. I'd probably give him a long look before I'd play Drummond in most situations, and I'd look at him at the 4 in some others.
As far as I can tell (and I've looked) he's the only G League guy who has ALL of the following:
1. Real 4/5 size
2. Real 4/5 rebounding (12.9 per 36)
3. Real 4/5 shot blocking (2.8 blocks per 36)
4. Very good floor game (4 assists vs. only 2.2 TOs per 36)
5. Acceptable 3pct (34%... ok for a big) on exceptionally high volume (8.2 3pa/36)
He's literally the only guy who's got all of those things, and each of them, individually, is something highly desirable. None of his statistical profile shows any obvious red flags (no high TO rate or foul rate or sub 30% shooting, for example). Everything is positive here. It's pretty much the most obvious play in the world to give this guy a chance.
Biggest thing that stood out.... Billy Donovan the third? Is our coach the junior?
Per Wikipedia: "William John Donovan Jr. (born May 30, 1965) is an American professional basketball coach and former player who is the head coach for the Chicago Bulls of the National Basketball Association (NBA)."
Learn something new every day, I suppose.
That must be wrong. I could swear that William Donovan Jr. was a villain in a Vince Vaughn/Owen Wilson movie.
I guess they're all descended from "Wild Bill" Donovan, godfather of America's intelligence agencies? No wonder the Bulls feel like a psy-op:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Donovan
I appreciate Billy Donovan not going by Jr. , I suppose it's enough it's "Billy"
players shouldn't use Jr. unless their dad was in the league. It should be like the Screen Actors Guild. Take that, "Ben Coupet"
How about the players like Xavier Tillman who go by "Sr." in deference to their grade school age kids?
great question. That is at least inherently for themselves, whereas I feel the Jr. is giving their loser dads (who didn't even make the best league in the world, SMH) some glory
totally bullshit that Kenneth Lofton Jr. is not the son of the MLB player
per wikipedia, his dad is a US Army vet and then government employee, and I'll say it: he's the one with the stolen valor
Although it seems a bit unnecessary that they mention that his dad is "actually slow as shit".
> His grandfather, Gene "Rock" Duhon
I love everything about this.
Marcus Fizer Senior!
A couple of things about Phillips. One, I'm calling bullshit on his max vert number. When a guy has both a suspiciously high max vert and a suspiciously low standing reach, I call bullshit. Because the max vert isn't measured directly, but is rather equal to the max vert touch point minus the standing reach. So I think sometimes guys short their reach to juice their max vert. I'd guess Phillips' numbers are more like an 8'9-10'' standing reach (instead of 8'6'') and 39-40" max vert (rather than 43").
Second, it looks like he actually got to the rim a ton in college. Over 47% of his shots came at the rim. I keep a database of these numbers going back to 2011, and draftable wings on average take 31% of their shots at the rim.
Let's settle this:
Insane veritcal
vs.
Very long arms
Appleby was one of the bright spots for the Gators under Billy Donovan's less than stellar successor, Mike White. He transferred around the time White was fired, er, encouraged to go coach our biggest rival.
Wasn’t Dalen Terry’s big asset supposed to be on-ball creation for others, almost like a jumbo PG? I don’t think shooting has ever really been a strength, he shot an ok % his sophomore year at Arizona but very little.
I’m m generally skeptical of taking a college teams 5th best guy in the first round
Man this bout to be the worst team in SL. I can legitimately say the best player on this team peak is the 7-8 guy off the bench. Sanogo going to Europe. Other than Terry nobody on this squad belong on a NBA roster, I don’t even know if he dies
If he dies, he dies.
Best Summer League teams aren’t necessarily the ones with the most NBA prospects. A lot of times the overseas or GLeague vets are the best players on the floor.
Julian Phillips isn't playing because the Bulls haven't signed him to a contract yet, lol
WTF is up with that.
ak sitting motionless in the stands, who watches julian philips emerge from the lockers in street clothes. smash cut to his desk as we crash zoom onto a unsigned document covered in post-it flags. cut back to ak, who sucks his teeth and grimaces.
So uh what are we supposed to make of this? They're either lowballing him (which, if they have him slated for a roster spot, only hurts themselves in terms of Bird Rights) or he has some irrational idea of what he's worth. Or (as a long shot) Olympiacos or someone has offered him a car and a million expired Greek drachmas to sign. I don't... think there can be any other explanation here. Ideas?
I'd bet it's the years, likely contract is around the minimum
They want him to sign for 3 years (like Marko) and he wants to get out earlier as an RFA (like Ayo)
Contract announced today. It's 4 years where year 4 is a team option. I'm assuming that was a sticking point...did AK actually win? Because 3 years guaranteed is still a lot.
Mixed thoughts on this. On the one hand... he got a project in Round 2 and gave him more guaranteed years than any 1st round pick has (though eventually all of them get 3 years picked up). It's theoretically possible though this might be a longer contract than Dalen Terry has lol
On the other hand, if he's an "energy guy" that Garturas said he was last night, then I wouldn't really count on him playing much for awhile. Quite possibly for years.
Gar The First gave Daniel Gafford this contract I believe, which was sensible, though somehow Gafford peaked in Year 2. His stats have been virtually identical ever since then.
first half report, from Cody Westerlund:
"Dalen Terry has 2 points on 1-8 FGs (0-2 on 3s), 5 rebs, 3 asts, 3 turnovers.
decision-making on the offensive end in the first half has been really bad. "Forcing it" would be the kind way to term it. "Out of control" would probably be most fair."
I watched it, he was Dalen Terryble. A few good plays but a lot of bad. Reckless ball handling.
His handles aren't good and his body control isn't either.
Add that to his frame and shooting being issues and I think he's just a miss. A few good guys taken in the 2022 draft after Terry like Branham and Kessler but the Bulls were looking for a good wing larger than 6'6. Problem is that Eason was taken right before the Bulls got to pick so Bulls went fit and got burned. Can't blame them too much but given all the picks they've traded away the last 5 years and going forward, hard to have a complete miss on one of your 1sts.
I don't think his handles are necessarily bad. It just depends on what his role is. His handles are bad for a point guard, but not that bad for a wing who isn't expected to do much ball handling.
I'm a little afraid AKME is hoping Terry will turn into Lonzo and that just isn't going to happen.
Someone needs to get in Terry's ear and tell him the only way he's going to have a decent career in the NBA is if he focuses all of his efforts on becoming a good three point shooter and adding muscle so he can guard other wings and the occasional power forward.
He could absolutely be a solid 3 and D wing if he bulks up and works on his shot, but he needs to be 100% committed to that. We just don't need AKME out there telling him he could be Lonzo some day.
"If he bulks up and works on his shot."
I mean, you could say that of any 6'7 player. He's got a bit of above average court vision and passing abilities but other than that, I'm not sure what he's shown that makes anyone believe he's going to make it. His frame looks hard to bulk up and lots of players improve shooting but it is far from a given to become a good 3 point shooter.
I can see Phillips bypassing Terry quickly on the depth chart if Phillips shows a better catch and shoot ability than Terry. Bigger, stronger, and I think his shooting stroke is actually technically smooth.
Personally, since Christian Wood has reportedly only received vet min offers, I'd take whatever part of the DPE they have below the luxury tax line and sign him. Craig is good but you really need at least 3 wings and PW is a fine 2nd but can Terry and Phillips be a 3rd? I'm not super confident in either to step up. Terry could be out of the league in 2 years and Phllips is an unknown rookie right now that the Bulls may be trying to sign to a two way. Given this is a "one last ride" season before going full rebuild, might as well get one more vet in with some size. Wood on that kind of contract would be easy to move in the future, too.
I'm certainly not disagreeing with you. Terry could very well be a bust. I'm just saying that 3 and D wings are pretty common (because it doesn't necessarily take that much skill to be one), so if Dalen Terry is going to have a place in the league, that's his most likely route.
Agree with you on Wood. I'd like a big that can actually defend, but if the starting lineup is Coby/Carter, Zach, DeMar, Pat and Vooch and then the bench is Coby/Carter, AC, Craig, *insert someone here* and Drummond, I'd happily slot Wood in as the power forward coming off the bench. He'd add a nice scoring punch to that second string too.
This is to say that right now he's a 2 and No D guy?
The NBA continues to puzzle me about this. If I had an NBA team, my G-League affiliate would have nothing but guys that can shoot. I don't care about anything else: just guys who can hit a few ticks above the league average in 3 point shooting. Most were probably the best player their whole life and were never asked to play defense, some can't play but will study player profiles, a few will just be tall and maybe they can do some other stuff. But only shooters, if they can't do that then there is no point at all anymore. Defenses sag and sorry but there's room in the league for like a tiny handful of 6'6" guys who get the rim or only operates in mid-range. Look at all the guys who kind of clawed their way into the NBA, that's a common thread. Those are most of the 2nd rounders who stick around. Give me shooters and I'll teach them something else.
Give me the Ho'State Bulls, I will have their roster filled with nothing but Max Struseseses, it'll smell of Brut and cheeseburgers but goddammit I will have a factory of shooters on their way to the pros.
So how do we get you in a room with AK and how do we get him on board with this plan? The man seems in love with long, athletic guys that can't shoot.
The way I figure it, I just continue to spread my pearls of wisdom on a blog and they HAVE to hire me!
To be fair, I could totally see Jerry doing that. I mean, it wouldn't be someone from BaB because we're all too negative. But I could see someone on a blog that just constantly praises this team getting a position in the Jerry regime just because Jerry wanted someone to make him feel good.
But that completely goes against his draft day scouting report. His best asset was his play-making ability combined with his height, so you could project an on-ball offensive player with the frame to survive defensively. He never profiled as a shooter, so if he can’t create, he has nearly no path to offensive acceptability. If we’re discussing him as “3 and D” now, that’s a pretty decently large (downward) revision of expectation and asking him to succeed in two things he hasn’t yet at any level.
So what do you think he should work on? He's obviously not anywhere near an NBA-level point guard.
Prefacing this by I never watch college ball and have no idea what the scouts said, but I'm starting to wonder if AK isn't REALLY using the meager draft picks he has left to replace marginal dudes at the bottom of our rotation. Phillips was said to be a "DJJ replacement." And now what you're saying sounds exactly like Troy Brown Jr, who after leaving here basically came to the same point. There's no place in the NBA for a point forward who can't create and isn't enough of a playmaker to be your primary playmaker, so he's been trying to become a normal 3&D swingman.
I got into an argument about this a few months ago. Not that Troy Brown Jr is, himself, great, but talking about him gets to the point you were making above.
With the Bulls, he shot relatively well and he was what, 22? Just by virtue of the fact he's 6'6" and 220 and can shoot the ball, he should have been kept.
But, the Bulls just don't much value shooting. Or at least they didn't up until this summer.
I agree about this, and I actually like Troy Brown, but the main point is if you let him go you're just going to go out and find another one that's probably not as good, or if he is, more expensive. (Or, if you're the Bulls, you won't sign one at all.) He basically shot a league-average for 3 in his last season here and shot above-average for the Lakers last year. That... seems like what you're looking for?
Right not sure why they were so quick to let him and bring in non-shooters like DJJ. TB Jr was no great shakes but he has been an ok shooter in the last couple years. And now you draft a guy with a similar profile but with almost no shooting skills
I watched his Arizona team quite a bit. Benedict Mathurin was the P10 POTY and second team all American, Tubelis was 1st team all conference and second team AA, and Christian Koloko was first team all conference and an NBA draft pick. Needless to say, to my eye, Terry was the fifth guy on that team’s scouting report (Kerr Kriisa , their PG, over him) and benefitted from having three elite possession finishers and vanishingly little attention from the defense.
He wasn’t a shooter at Arizona, so I don’t see why he’d be now. The tastiest part of his game was always his passing and size, but if he can’t dribble or shoot that’s of very limited utility.
I just think it’s a bad eval, he never profiled as a role player , he profiled, if he worked, as an on-ball guy.
yea Dalen's profile sounds a lot like TB Jr when he came out of college....supposed point forward type with some defensive chops but can't shoot a lick. TB Jr is basically a deep bench guy and always will be and he is way more skilled/polished than Dalen when he hit the league so.....having hopes for Terry being a decent player are earthworm level in my eyes
Bulls win game 1 holding SummerRaptors to 74 points, blech
My way too early observations:
1. Terry needs to calm down. He looked straight up bad tonight and he was trying way too hard to make things happen.
2. Julian Phillips not playing because he hasn't signed a contract yet is ridiculous. What is the front office doing?
3. Sanogo isn't an NBA player. He doesn't have any amazing skills and he's way too small to play center in the NBA.
4. I'm interested to see more from Justin Lewis and MPJ's little brother.
5. I think we found our next Carlik Jones. Dos Santos appears to be a pretty good point guard, but will never make it in the NBA because of his size.
Both Dos Santos and Drell looked like competent pros. Moses Brown is a no offense center who does everything else really well, he should at least be a 3rd string NBA center. Marquis Nowell is a shorty but was the best player on the court.
Yeah, Nowell could be in the same category as Carlik Jones. Jones was amazing in the G League because he's actually a competent player. He's just too small to be decent in the NBA. Nowell is the same, but even smaller. 😂
I like Moses Brown, not just because he annihilated the Bulls in one of his infrequent starts. He seems to get pushed out in numbers' games, when teams need another PG or shooter and figure they can get away with two Cs. The Bulls' marsupial metabolism is perfect, they kept Marko for years and probably forgot he was even here until Stacy King went on the road and Arturas needed someone else to get things off high shelves.
Bulls posted some clips of Zach, Caruso, and DDR talking to the summer squad. Basically, they all said "go for yours" and it looks like the team took it to heart.
"As the son of a pro athlete and former 1st round pick, I worked for everything I have. Let me tell you about 'bootstraps' now..."
Well if he continues to fail in SL, I think we can pack it in on him being a real player, second year NBA guys are supposed to dominate Sunmer League, not drown, so I sort of think the time for him to work on things is nearly done. The things that got him drafted are not in evidence mostly, that seems like a near fatal problem,
Dalen Terry again looked awful. Bulls my want to forget Ayo and just sign Freeman-Liberty. At least he can shoot. Lewis got injured again. Phillips was a deer in headlights. Lofton Jr is a fatty but the dude is good.
In reponse to some of the Vuc-haters, a half-hearted attempt at why Vuc is a top-15 center and it's borderline absurd to suggest he's a fringe NBA starter...
I posted a list of all the centers I'd rather have then Vucevic, so in a casual way I already gave some context for why I think he's top 15. It seems some would prefer I make some statistical based argument? I'll make the attempt only because I think the Vuc-hating around here has really jumped the shark into comedy lately, and I'll even litter it with some counting stats just to trigger all of the hipster advanced-stats Sophists on BAB who now think "dOuBlE DoUbLeS are for backwater simpeltons!"...
Vuc stats among NBA Centers (roughly speaking depending on how you frame it on data websites):
7th PPG, 5th APG, 5th RPG, 6th 3P%
9th PER
Now for context on the counting stats, hes 5th highest USG% among centers, so some of that counting stat production is admittedly to be expected, but that's also signifcantly lower than he had in Orlando and he's putting up similar stats due to be more efficient on things like hook shots and midrange shooting when asked.
16th eFG%, tied with Embiid and right around other 3 point shooting centers
20th TS%, not great but considering his shot profile it's noteworthy for a center and it's over 2% better than league average
2nd TOV%, right behind Brook
2nd Post-Up volume (among top-10 players, he's 3rd in Post-Up efficiency behind Jokic and Embiid)
Of 74 players averaging 17+ PPG in 2023, Vuc had the lowest average seconds per touch (1.46) - very quick decision maker
90th percentile in mid-range shooting % among all NBA players
For Defense:
Top 5 Deflections/G (2.0)
Top 5 Def-RPG (9.0)
(an aside, his O-Reb aren't much different from other centers who play away from the basket like Jokic, Embiid, Brook, and Porzingis)
8th DRTG
11th Block%
He's the starting center on a Bulls team that was 5th in DRTG, and in the NBA a center is typically the most important defensive position, while surrounded often by guys like DeMar and Zach who he's going to have to switch onto their guys or help on often. Given Vuc is not terribly mobile, that's putting him in a tough spot on defense, but he's surely performed at least average.
I don't see Vucevic as really any worse a defender than a guy like Jokic, who most people consider "passable" or "average", not able to get by on pure athleticisim and can't give you a ton of classic rim protection but he understands schemes well. And he's really the opposite of Drummond, who can give you some rim protection but gets lost out in coverage trying to do the things Vucevic is good at.
But that's all just a very long way of saying I think Vuc is pretty good if not slightly boring, he's around that top-15 NBA center range and not some fringe-starter, and though I wouldn't have signed him to the new contract I won't really waste any time worrying about him making $18.5M in 2023 especially given what Jokic, Embiid, Ayton, Gobert, KAT, and even Brook makes ($25M next season). He was also 2nd to Ayo in games played for Bulls last 2 seasons, and 1st in the NBA among centers in games played the last 2 seasons, playing a style that doesn't focus on mobility or athleticism so should theoretically preserve his playing career
Wrong post
Here are some thoughts I have after watching the first 2 summer league games:
- Terry is trying to do way too much on offense. I can’t even really blame him. He’s in a terrible environment for his development. How many top 20 picks are basically auditioning to not be in the G League after their rookie year? He should be on a young, bad team that can afford to give him minutes to develop his offense on an NBA floor. Instead he’s on an old team that will only give him minutes if he’s a serviceable role player and he’s not good enough for that. Why AK didn’t just draft Kessler to be the backup center is beyond me.
- Similar to Terry, Phillips looks like a serious project. When a guy is barely visible during a summer league game, you don’t feel confident that he’ll be ready to contribute to an NBA roster anytime soon. I’d say his best case scenario is two years away from being a bench player. Good thing he’s a second round pick and will be on a shorter contract, so he can’t afford that timeline! Just wonderful team building by AK.
- The Bull who I’ve been the most impressed with is Jontay Porter. His offensive game looks solid and his size is nice. He got a couple of blocks in the last game. He should be a staple on the Windy City Bulls. Who knows, maybe there’s a future for him as a deep bench player.
- Sanogo has looked pretty good. He’s incredibly comfortable out there and could be one of those guys who dominates in the G League.
I haven't watched the games but I'm getting the impression that the Bulls are using summer league to round out their G-League roster?
Not slamming the Kessler pick in. Is still a REAL head scratcher. Nations best rim protector. In a strong conference. Only 20 y/o at the time of the draft. Filled a position of need. Was like a blinking light flashing at them!
Sanogo is comfortable, like a large piece of furniture or something.
WhiteSox could use LaVine
Porter... he might be a guy in the G League, but he'd bring a type of player that this team is entirely lacking. I'd probably give him a long look before I'd play Drummond in most situations, and I'd look at him at the 4 in some others.
As far as I can tell (and I've looked) he's the only G League guy who has ALL of the following:
1. Real 4/5 size
2. Real 4/5 rebounding (12.9 per 36)
3. Real 4/5 shot blocking (2.8 blocks per 36)
4. Very good floor game (4 assists vs. only 2.2 TOs per 36)
5. Acceptable 3pct (34%... ok for a big) on exceptionally high volume (8.2 3pa/36)
He's literally the only guy who's got all of those things, and each of them, individually, is something highly desirable. None of his statistical profile shows any obvious red flags (no high TO rate or foul rate or sub 30% shooting, for example). Everything is positive here. It's pretty much the most obvious play in the world to give this guy a chance.
But what about all those non-shooter long, athletic types?
Porter is playing well, and his double ACL fits in with our bad knee back court. An AK kind of guy.
We can continue the brother meme too!