Just pulling this comment I wrote this morning directly over from the previous article since it fits here:
"I didn't want to stay up to watch the game last night, so I watched the "all possessions" version on League Pass this morning. That version always has commentating from the home team, which means I got to hear Phoenix's commentators.
If anyone has League Pass, seriously go back and watch the "all possessions" version sometime today. It's only 37 minutes long. I don't think I've ever heard more unprofessional commentating in my entire life. As a Bulls fan that hasn't lived in Illinois in two decades, I've heard lots of non-Bulls commentators.
I get that local commentators are always homers and root for their team, but these guys were on another level. They quite literally complained the entire game about how the Bulls were constantly fouling their guys and the refs weren't doing anything about it, and they were basically openly calling for the Suns to start playing dirty. Genuinely embarrassing commentators.
With that being said, what an insane game! Can't even be mad that they lost that one. KD absolutely took over and that final shot was incredible. I felt like the Bulls were pretty solid on both ends of the floor. Probably one of their better overall games this season. They were just out-talented (it's a word, trust me)."
I think there are plenty of legitimate complaints to be had with Stacey, but you are ultimately right. As much of a homer as Stacey is, he and Adam are still pretty good commentators. Some other teams' commentators are truly so, so much worse.
Agree with both of you. Yeah some of Stacey's catch phrases are annoying, but he is usually pretty fair.
I forget which one it was that was really awful, the announcers were super bad... Philly? There was another one too but like all Philly fans they were dreadful lol.
I honestly don't mind the catch phrases too much. That's to be expected from a color commentator. What I find annoying is his undying optimism. And to be fair to him, you kind of have to have that optimism to last as a commentator for this terrible franchise. It doesn't mean I can't be annoyed by it though!
Now that I think about it, I do hate the "It's a simple game" catch phrase because it's just statistically wrong. There's a reason why the game has shifted away from being so post-heavy. Especially when the guy who is playing in the post is incredibly inefficient...
Jan 23·edited Jan 23Liked by your friendly BullsBlogger
I mostly just hate the way he does the "COOKIES OMNOMNOMNOM" noise. it grinds my gears lololol.
also, sometimes they are just like... too silly or trying too hard. I don't mind most of them. Like did you have to change it to sriracha? Gimme the hot sauce worked just fine!
The most objectionable thing with Stacey imo is just his over-valuing of old school offensive principles. Otherwise I think he’s pretty good.
The Suns announcers were just whining like the entire time. One of the worst listening experiences I’ve had in recent memory that didn’t involve Marc Jackson.
Yeah that's awful. Like I said, I think the Philly ones were awful but also think there might have been another bad one recently. I feel like I saw the heat announcers and they weren't bad though.
More on topic with this article specifically, yfbb is right. This was a great game from the Bulls. Unfortunately a great game from the Bulls is still barely enough to fight with a decent playoff team having a decent game. AK will see this game though and think it means this Bulls team is good enough to take it to a contender when in reality is proves the exact opposite.
This game was really the talent issue in full display. I saw a lot of fans complaining about refs, but they lost this game by going on a 6 minute drought where they only made 1 field goal. Of course Donovan waited until the lead was gone and the crowd had awakened to, like, do anything. And then they spent what felt like the rest of the game trying to isolate DeRozan on Grayson Allen, instead of exploiting what I'd think would be the more favorable matchup in Coby vs Beal.
Talent yes, Durant is HOF all day. But the Bulls tried to get physical with the Suns and Eubanks completely rattled them. The turning point was when Eubanks got a tech for pushing Coby White and White responding. Eubanks then hard fouled Drummond and things devolved from there. Eubanks is one of those players apparently, they got Grayson Allen too who got in DeMar's head there late.
This game was disappointing for several reasons, chief among them that the Bulls lost. But, also as an illustration. Alex Caruso is pure gold, and the Bulls, who are collectively fools' gold at this point, don't deserve him.
At the point he picked up his fourth foul, Durant went nuclear. Because he's so pivotal to the marginal success of this team as currently constructed, the Bulls will ask for 27 first round picks in exchange for his services, thereby making him untouchable.
Flip to Zach LaVine, who is currently headlining the Klutch-sponsored NBA's Overpaid Asshole 2024 tour, thereby making him almost as untouchable for opposite reasons. And count me into the camp of folks who severely underestimated how hard it would be to move him. Chicago's, what, now seven years into this experiment and are multiple years removed from Zach LaVine, EFFICIENCYGOD. We're to a point where the team simply plays better without him. Would Chicago have to surrender draft capital to deal him? Maybe. Would Chicago fetch a heavily protected first for him? Hopefully, or teams could opt for Terry Rozier at much less cost.
Which brings us to a nasty fork in a nasty road. The Bulls won't trade guys who they should and can't trade guys who they will.
And last night's game was a great reminder of those current coordinates. Like, the Bulls are currently sitting at the intersection of can't and won't with this roster.
I mean, isn't that what we originally heard? And then it was that the front office wasn't even accepting calls regarding him? So maybe it's progress if it's back to them entertaining the idea as long as it includes multiple firsts...
I'm counting it as progress. I think two firsts is reasonable. They need to not be totally silly firsts either (like, the 29th pick).
Given that I don't trust AKME to draft worth a damn, I'd like a young guy too. I still think Paul Reed, KJ Martin/Bamba and 2 FRPs for AC is reasonable. I'd give them Drummond if it'd seal the deal.
My issue with the Bulls, or here specifically, is that they treat most of their coveted assets like drunk guys trying to sell their three-decades old, full-sized trucks on FB Marketplace.
Like, I hear you Kyle, yes, used car prices are still up about 40 percent since COVID I understand that, but it says here on KBB's website (includes link)--oh, you think Kelly Blue Book's book prices are informed by an unregistered Chinese algorithm to influence political elections, well--your truck has 3xx,xxx miles on it, wheel wells look like they've been eaten by a large army of moths. And. No, I--no, I don't have a Zelle account and I furthermore, no I don't know *exactly* how many inches of smoke tar we're looking at here--yes, this is my best offer.
Caruso is a fine asset. I've long thought he's their best trade asset. But I don't think the Bulls are great at understanding market value. See: their non-attempt at trading Thad Young in peak Thad Young season, their overpay for Vuceivic, their failed attempt, or years-long failed attempts at unloading LaVine at anything but his lowest value point.
If by multiple first round draft picks, they don't mean 27, I could see them asking for 2. That seems reasonable. But I could also see them turning their nose up at a good, not astronomical value because they're an unreasonable people.
Yea I think the difference with Derozan and Zach is that I think Derozan is a guy I want on the court in the clutch and in the locker room. He can't carry a team like he did last season but in the 4th quarter to close out I trust him to make the right decisions and hit tough shots. In the locker room he's been the aged vocal vet. Zach is a lot of hypotheticals when he's on the court, and you never really know what you're gnna get.
I never cease to be amazed at how much hate Deebo gets. The guy generally passes if a teammate has a good look, and generally is the most efficient option, but to listen to a lot of guys, you'd think we could cut him outright and win 50 games because Pat/Coby/Zach would suddenly be magic in the clutch.
Yea, i feel like there's a bunch of folks online (like bulls reddit) that just heavily lean into a direction that's gaining some level of media traction. Derozan's age IS a concern, so dumb fans lean into a "we need to get rid of the old guys, yesterday!" mindset without at all putting some sort of basketball rationale into the thought. I don't write as much on here, but this community is still my preferred bulls community because at least the folks here have rationalized thoughts whether I agree or not.
I like Demarr, but after Caruso and Drum, he's the easiest to trade and there's no guarantee he'll resign at all or for a team-friendly amount. Sometimes trading a vet works out, especially if it's Paul George (ultimately turned into Haliburton, Hield, Nembhard, & Sheppard for Pacers and Shai, Tre Mann, and Jalen Williams + 2 more unprotected 1sts, 1 more protected 1st, and 1 more 1st swap) for OKC, holy crap).
Right, but just because a guy CAN be traded doesn't mean he SHOULD be traded.
I'm open to trading him. but since I'm not one of those guys who wants to watch a few years of 20 win basketball, I'm going to have to be convinced that it's the right move.
This game was fun to watch but I got mad that the Bulls lost so I wish I didn't see it. This game confirmed some things for me.
First, Vuc is bad. You look at his box score and it looks really solid, but he couldn't make any plays when the game was on the line. This happens all the time. if you need a big 3, Vuc is gonna brick it. A key rebound? Here you go, Drew Eubanks. It's unreal how Vuc shrinks when the lights get brightest.
Also, Billy needs to give the ball to Coby in crunch time. I get why he calls plays for DDR at the end, but when Coby is feeling it you have to give him a chance. This happened at the end of the Rockets game-- Coby was cooking and Billy drew up an iso for DDR. Last night was the same thing. You learn by doing and Coby needs to get opportunities in these game-winning situations.
Last, Patrick Williams is just a guy. The Bulls need wings so they need him, but I am not looking forward to seeing what his contract is going to look like. He played some good defense and hit some 3s, but is really passive and has trouble finishing at the rim. I didnt look at any stats but he's gotta be one of the worst at-rim finishers ever.
I don't see how Bulls resign DeRozan/PW/Drummond and still stay below the lux tax. They have $130k on the books for next year and guessing lux tax level is $170M? Are you giving PW $20M and then asking Demarr to take $20M? Will PW take a mild raise like Coby? We could give him $12M, but then there's only $28M for Demarr, and he wants a raise. We could dump TT and DT (not guaranteed and team option) but that only adds $5.7M to spend. I think Sanogo and Bitm are rostered next year, and we have a FRP that will probably get paid $5ishM (unless we trade it to get rid of Zac).
Well they shouldn’t re-sign DeRozan, and they definitely shouldn’t give him more money if they do re-sign him. But by next season if they were hell bent on paying that hot young prospect DeRozan, waiving Lonzo is probably the easiest way to free up a bunch of space under the tax. They also should not pay Williams $20M but I find that more palatable than giving DeRozan nearly $30M.
fans are way more concerned over this than the Bulls are. The Bulls are not concerning themselves with whether they'll stay under the tax. They're gonna be under. So whatever the method, just work backwards from there. (probably getting out from Lonzo's money, even if it's a waive-and-stretch)
I'm sure Art overpays PW considering he is his flagship 1st round pick, and he always doubles down on his bad decisions. But then not sure how Demarr gets a contract without Zac getting us expirings...
Zach's not being traded. KC keeps saying it on the Bulls Talk podcasts. Nobody wants him and this front office obviously isn't going to get creative and figure out a way to get rid of him. AK's going to re-sign DeMar and then realize he has no money left to re-sign Pat.
I don't know. I think sometimes he does. He seems to be pretty open about it when he doesn't know something. Like he loves to say "maybe this could happen, but I haven't heard anything about it" whenever a rumor is brought up.
So when he keeps repeating on the Bulls Talk podcast that Zach is most likely not getting traded, that kind of confirms (to me at least) that he is hearing from somewhere inside of the organization that there is very little chance Zach gets moved.
That's the one good thing about KC - he's kind of an open book. If he doesn't know something, he'll happily say he doesn't know. If he does know something, he may not say "AK told me we're not making any trades this deadline" but he'll still say pretty confidently that nothing is going to happen at the deadline.
OK I made it to Basketball Reference to see that Patrick Williams is shooting 64% 0-3 feet from the hoop (58th worst in the league). Based on that NBA.com stat, it seems that he really has trouble with shots 4-5 feet from the basket, which is surprising because I thought his main problem was blown dunks and layups. Pat's main economic advantage is the relative scarcity of people his size/length. He has a 0.0 value over replacement player, which confirms my eye test.
Prized offseason signing Javon Carter is shooting 53.8% 0-3 feet from the hoop (5th worst in the league).
A lot of those plays called for DeMar have passing options and, at least in the post-Zach era, he often takes them when the double comes. The play that ended with Vuc bricking another 3 pointer from the top of the key had the ball in ALL of their hands — as I remember it started with DeMar, Coby drove into the paint but kicked it out, and the ball wound up in Mr. 26% And Falling's hands.
Pat Williams' summer will be an indicator of how incoherent the Bulls' front office is. If you just want a guy who does what Pat Williams does, you can get one and if you have playing time probably not pay more than $6 to $12 million for it. If you're a win-now team, that's what you'd do. If you're building for the future, obviously you lock him up, even if you're paying a premium for it beyond what "Just A Guy" would make and it doesn't really matter because you're not going to be near the tax for awhile anyway.
You can do both, but it's very expensive and requires you to cut corners elsewhere and by trying to develop players and also win-now you will likely accomplish neither. It fits the Bulls' front office evolving MO to re-sign Pat to an extension AND to acquire someone like Tobias Harris at the same time.
NBA HELLDUMP day! Is it Xmas eve or New Year's Day?
- Griff FIRED with his team in 2nd place and 43 games into his tenure! And it took entirely too long! Your lead assistant (Terry Stotts) quitting during training camp is a pretty bad sign, though I bet he wishes he would have stuck around.
I thought the Bucks would just dominate in the regular season this year. They still might (people were agonizing over the Suns, like, a week ago. NBA analysis is entire based on looking at the "L10" column in the standings.) But if you had to "get this right" after firing Budenholzer, you DEFINITELY need to "get this right" now. If I'm Doc Rivers' agent I'm demanding like a piece of ownership and $25 million/year to step in. That goes for anyone with NBA experience.
- Tristan Thompson is still in the NBA, and juicing!
- Heat acquire Terry Rozier! Despite the qualms about him I actually like this deal for Miami. They have pretty good depth and variety in salaries and players if they want to bundle Martin/Herro/Robinson for a better player, without making the thinness that has hurt them in the playoffs the last three seasons even worse. (Prior to this, if they would have traded something along the lines of Lowry and Robinson for Zach, they would have had like $160m+ spread around just 6 players next year.) Bam can cover a lot of ground and he'll have to if this is their line-up but I think they have another deal in store, though likely in the summer.
I don't think much of Doc either, but Griff on the sidelines looked like me the morning I took the LSAT after dropping into a loft party for "a few minutes" the night before. Anyone with cred willing to take this over has them over a barrel, you can ask for anything you want and probably get it.
I don't think they can afford to waste a year of their closing window of opportunity. They're paying lots of tax and neither Giannis no Dame are young.
Also, Griffin was pretty uniquely terrible. Aside from the sideline demeanor that Gran points out,
1. He managed to insult and run off his lead assistant in training camp (Terry Stotts... who by the way has a great relationship with Dame).
2. His initial plan for defense was self-evidently terrible and quickly abandoned.
3. Offensively, they're getting by on talent, but they never seemed to be working toward the obvious goals that Griffin and the team publicly set out for themselves.
Well, the kind of guys who make a bad mistake the first time around are the kind of guys who are likely to make a bad mistake the second time around too.
There have been many trades that the Bulls could have made or picked up someone that could really help the team and win these close games but it seems like management is asleep. If the owner is so cheap that he is afraid to make a move he should a least pick up Brogdon for Ball and Julian who never gets minutes anyway. It will not cost much. We need two or three more bench players that will make a difference. Ayo is good but not consistent. You can't expect go to the playoffs wearing out your starters, Billy! Even if there is no money available you have potential in the young players, stop sending them to the G league and give them minutes instead, they may surprise you. Other teams have done it. That is how you get guys like Maxey and Jaime Jaquez. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.
Supposing the Lakers to that trade with the Hawks for Murray, maybe they would be willing to go all-Klutch and follow it up with Zach+Drummond for Rui, Reeves, Vincent, and Hayes.
Lakers
G- Murray
G- Zach
F- Redish, Prince
F- Lebron, Wood
C- AD, Drummond
It's a lame return for us, but we split Zach's big immovable contract into three probably moveable guys who aren't completely without utility.
G- Coby, Vincent, Carter
G- AC, Reeves, Ayo
F- DDR (Pat)
F- Pat, Rui, Craig
C- Vuc, Hayes
Still too guard heavy. but I'd be trading Caruso if it were me, because I'm pretty certain he'll bring a good return. And DDR if he does bring a good return, but I think he's the guy we fall through the floor without, so it has to be a good return.
If we could turn around and flip Vincent or Carter, I'd do that especially if it brings in a competent big.
I've hated every trade idea involving the Lakers. The best asset we get is almost always reeves, and I'm convinced he's gnna suck when he's no longer next to lebron.
Fanspo usually catches those things and it approves the trade, the Lakers add +$3 million which it seems like it'd be easy to take care of if there's a problem.
Just pulling this comment I wrote this morning directly over from the previous article since it fits here:
"I didn't want to stay up to watch the game last night, so I watched the "all possessions" version on League Pass this morning. That version always has commentating from the home team, which means I got to hear Phoenix's commentators.
If anyone has League Pass, seriously go back and watch the "all possessions" version sometime today. It's only 37 minutes long. I don't think I've ever heard more unprofessional commentating in my entire life. As a Bulls fan that hasn't lived in Illinois in two decades, I've heard lots of non-Bulls commentators.
I get that local commentators are always homers and root for their team, but these guys were on another level. They quite literally complained the entire game about how the Bulls were constantly fouling their guys and the refs weren't doing anything about it, and they were basically openly calling for the Suns to start playing dirty. Genuinely embarrassing commentators.
With that being said, what an insane game! Can't even be mad that they lost that one. KD absolutely took over and that final shot was incredible. I felt like the Bulls were pretty solid on both ends of the floor. Probably one of their better overall games this season. They were just out-talented (it's a word, trust me)."
My stream had the Suns commentary. Yfbb shits on the Chicago home announcers but it can get so much worse.
I think there are plenty of legitimate complaints to be had with Stacey, but you are ultimately right. As much of a homer as Stacey is, he and Adam are still pretty good commentators. Some other teams' commentators are truly so, so much worse.
Agree with both of you. Yeah some of Stacey's catch phrases are annoying, but he is usually pretty fair.
I forget which one it was that was really awful, the announcers were super bad... Philly? There was another one too but like all Philly fans they were dreadful lol.
Also as someone in MA who had to listen to Tommy Heinsohn... ughhhhh lol
I honestly don't mind the catch phrases too much. That's to be expected from a color commentator. What I find annoying is his undying optimism. And to be fair to him, you kind of have to have that optimism to last as a commentator for this terrible franchise. It doesn't mean I can't be annoyed by it though!
Now that I think about it, I do hate the "It's a simple game" catch phrase because it's just statistically wrong. There's a reason why the game has shifted away from being so post-heavy. Especially when the guy who is playing in the post is incredibly inefficient...
I mostly just hate the way he does the "COOKIES OMNOMNOMNOM" noise. it grinds my gears lololol.
also, sometimes they are just like... too silly or trying too hard. I don't mind most of them. Like did you have to change it to sriracha? Gimme the hot sauce worked just fine!
Yeah, the cookies one is definitely dumb. Honestly, most of them probably are. I've just learned to drown them out haha
The most objectionable thing with Stacey imo is just his over-valuing of old school offensive principles. Otherwise I think he’s pretty good.
The Suns announcers were just whining like the entire time. One of the worst listening experiences I’ve had in recent memory that didn’t involve Marc Jackson.
Yeah that's awful. Like I said, I think the Philly ones were awful but also think there might have been another bad one recently. I feel like I saw the heat announcers and they weren't bad though.
More on topic with this article specifically, yfbb is right. This was a great game from the Bulls. Unfortunately a great game from the Bulls is still barely enough to fight with a decent playoff team having a decent game. AK will see this game though and think it means this Bulls team is good enough to take it to a contender when in reality is proves the exact opposite.
This game was really the talent issue in full display. I saw a lot of fans complaining about refs, but they lost this game by going on a 6 minute drought where they only made 1 field goal. Of course Donovan waited until the lead was gone and the crowd had awakened to, like, do anything. And then they spent what felt like the rest of the game trying to isolate DeRozan on Grayson Allen, instead of exploiting what I'd think would be the more favorable matchup in Coby vs Beal.
Talent yes, Durant is HOF all day. But the Bulls tried to get physical with the Suns and Eubanks completely rattled them. The turning point was when Eubanks got a tech for pushing Coby White and White responding. Eubanks then hard fouled Drummond and things devolved from there. Eubanks is one of those players apparently, they got Grayson Allen too who got in DeMar's head there late.
I mean, the refs were bad but that game was absolutely the bulls' to lose and they did.
This game was disappointing for several reasons, chief among them that the Bulls lost. But, also as an illustration. Alex Caruso is pure gold, and the Bulls, who are collectively fools' gold at this point, don't deserve him.
At the point he picked up his fourth foul, Durant went nuclear. Because he's so pivotal to the marginal success of this team as currently constructed, the Bulls will ask for 27 first round picks in exchange for his services, thereby making him untouchable.
Flip to Zach LaVine, who is currently headlining the Klutch-sponsored NBA's Overpaid Asshole 2024 tour, thereby making him almost as untouchable for opposite reasons. And count me into the camp of folks who severely underestimated how hard it would be to move him. Chicago's, what, now seven years into this experiment and are multiple years removed from Zach LaVine, EFFICIENCYGOD. We're to a point where the team simply plays better without him. Would Chicago have to surrender draft capital to deal him? Maybe. Would Chicago fetch a heavily protected first for him? Hopefully, or teams could opt for Terry Rozier at much less cost.
Which brings us to a nasty fork in a nasty road. The Bulls won't trade guys who they should and can't trade guys who they will.
And last night's game was a great reminder of those current coordinates. Like, the Bulls are currently sitting at the intersection of can't and won't with this roster.
"the Bulls will ask for 27 first round picks in exchange for his services, thereby making him untouchable."
The Thunder would like a word.
https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1750228630926401869?s=20
I mean, isn't that what we originally heard? And then it was that the front office wasn't even accepting calls regarding him? So maybe it's progress if it's back to them entertaining the idea as long as it includes multiple firsts...
I'm counting it as progress. I think two firsts is reasonable. They need to not be totally silly firsts either (like, the 29th pick).
Given that I don't trust AKME to draft worth a damn, I'd like a young guy too. I still think Paul Reed, KJ Martin/Bamba and 2 FRPs for AC is reasonable. I'd give them Drummond if it'd seal the deal.
I'd take that in a heartbeat!
My issue with the Bulls, or here specifically, is that they treat most of their coveted assets like drunk guys trying to sell their three-decades old, full-sized trucks on FB Marketplace.
Like, I hear you Kyle, yes, used car prices are still up about 40 percent since COVID I understand that, but it says here on KBB's website (includes link)--oh, you think Kelly Blue Book's book prices are informed by an unregistered Chinese algorithm to influence political elections, well--your truck has 3xx,xxx miles on it, wheel wells look like they've been eaten by a large army of moths. And. No, I--no, I don't have a Zelle account and I furthermore, no I don't know *exactly* how many inches of smoke tar we're looking at here--yes, this is my best offer.
Caruso is a fine asset. I've long thought he's their best trade asset. But I don't think the Bulls are great at understanding market value. See: their non-attempt at trading Thad Young in peak Thad Young season, their overpay for Vuceivic, their failed attempt, or years-long failed attempts at unloading LaVine at anything but his lowest value point.
If by multiple first round draft picks, they don't mean 27, I could see them asking for 2. That seems reasonable. But I could also see them turning their nose up at a good, not astronomical value because they're an unreasonable people.
Yes, I completely agree. Also, very much enjoyed the car-buying-from-Marketplace metaphor!
Would you have taken Lowry and a lottery protected 2027 (or unprotected 2028 if 2027 doesn't convey) FRP for Derozan?
We could've flipped that pick to ORL with Zac for Isaac, Fultz, and Okeke and then $68.6M is off the books.
No we couldn’t have.
I’d take it, assuming this kicks off a rebuild and AK doesn’t try to make the team work with this microscopic lineup.
this is (for once) a good question. Maybe the Heat preferred Rozier, but say they didn't (and DeRozan's contract is better)
I'd probably still say no. I just think they don't want to be terrible - and removing DeRozan would make them such - and I agree with that goal
Yea I think the difference with Derozan and Zach is that I think Derozan is a guy I want on the court in the clutch and in the locker room. He can't carry a team like he did last season but in the 4th quarter to close out I trust him to make the right decisions and hit tough shots. In the locker room he's been the aged vocal vet. Zach is a lot of hypotheticals when he's on the court, and you never really know what you're gnna get.
All that is to say if it wasn't for the fact that I know bulls are gnna overpay him, I'd want to keep deebo lol
I never cease to be amazed at how much hate Deebo gets. The guy generally passes if a teammate has a good look, and generally is the most efficient option, but to listen to a lot of guys, you'd think we could cut him outright and win 50 games because Pat/Coby/Zach would suddenly be magic in the clutch.
It doesn't work that way though. At all.
Yea, i feel like there's a bunch of folks online (like bulls reddit) that just heavily lean into a direction that's gaining some level of media traction. Derozan's age IS a concern, so dumb fans lean into a "we need to get rid of the old guys, yesterday!" mindset without at all putting some sort of basketball rationale into the thought. I don't write as much on here, but this community is still my preferred bulls community because at least the folks here have rationalized thoughts whether I agree or not.
I like Demarr, but after Caruso and Drum, he's the easiest to trade and there's no guarantee he'll resign at all or for a team-friendly amount. Sometimes trading a vet works out, especially if it's Paul George (ultimately turned into Haliburton, Hield, Nembhard, & Sheppard for Pacers and Shai, Tre Mann, and Jalen Williams + 2 more unprotected 1sts, 1 more protected 1st, and 1 more 1st swap) for OKC, holy crap).
Right, but just because a guy CAN be traded doesn't mean he SHOULD be traded.
I'm open to trading him. but since I'm not one of those guys who wants to watch a few years of 20 win basketball, I'm going to have to be convinced that it's the right move.
This game was fun to watch but I got mad that the Bulls lost so I wish I didn't see it. This game confirmed some things for me.
First, Vuc is bad. You look at his box score and it looks really solid, but he couldn't make any plays when the game was on the line. This happens all the time. if you need a big 3, Vuc is gonna brick it. A key rebound? Here you go, Drew Eubanks. It's unreal how Vuc shrinks when the lights get brightest.
Also, Billy needs to give the ball to Coby in crunch time. I get why he calls plays for DDR at the end, but when Coby is feeling it you have to give him a chance. This happened at the end of the Rockets game-- Coby was cooking and Billy drew up an iso for DDR. Last night was the same thing. You learn by doing and Coby needs to get opportunities in these game-winning situations.
Last, Patrick Williams is just a guy. The Bulls need wings so they need him, but I am not looking forward to seeing what his contract is going to look like. He played some good defense and hit some 3s, but is really passive and has trouble finishing at the rim. I didnt look at any stats but he's gotta be one of the worst at-rim finishers ever.
I don't see how Bulls resign DeRozan/PW/Drummond and still stay below the lux tax. They have $130k on the books for next year and guessing lux tax level is $170M? Are you giving PW $20M and then asking Demarr to take $20M? Will PW take a mild raise like Coby? We could give him $12M, but then there's only $28M for Demarr, and he wants a raise. We could dump TT and DT (not guaranteed and team option) but that only adds $5.7M to spend. I think Sanogo and Bitm are rostered next year, and we have a FRP that will probably get paid $5ishM (unless we trade it to get rid of Zac).
Well they shouldn’t re-sign DeRozan, and they definitely shouldn’t give him more money if they do re-sign him. But by next season if they were hell bent on paying that hot young prospect DeRozan, waiving Lonzo is probably the easiest way to free up a bunch of space under the tax. They also should not pay Williams $20M but I find that more palatable than giving DeRozan nearly $30M.
fans are way more concerned over this than the Bulls are. The Bulls are not concerning themselves with whether they'll stay under the tax. They're gonna be under. So whatever the method, just work backwards from there. (probably getting out from Lonzo's money, even if it's a waive-and-stretch)
Williams shooting 53% within 5 feet per nba.com stats, putting him in the “pretty bad” range.
I'm sure Art overpays PW considering he is his flagship 1st round pick, and he always doubles down on his bad decisions. But then not sure how Demarr gets a contract without Zac getting us expirings...
Zach's not being traded. KC keeps saying it on the Bulls Talk podcasts. Nobody wants him and this front office obviously isn't going to get creative and figure out a way to get rid of him. AK's going to re-sign DeMar and then realize he has no money left to re-sign Pat.
I'm not sure you're wrong, but we've learned in the AKME era KC doesn't really know anything
I don't know. I think sometimes he does. He seems to be pretty open about it when he doesn't know something. Like he loves to say "maybe this could happen, but I haven't heard anything about it" whenever a rumor is brought up.
So when he keeps repeating on the Bulls Talk podcast that Zach is most likely not getting traded, that kind of confirms (to me at least) that he is hearing from somewhere inside of the organization that there is very little chance Zach gets moved.
That's the one good thing about KC - he's kind of an open book. If he doesn't know something, he'll happily say he doesn't know. If he does know something, he may not say "AK told me we're not making any trades this deadline" but he'll still say pretty confidently that nothing is going to happen at the deadline.
OK I made it to Basketball Reference to see that Patrick Williams is shooting 64% 0-3 feet from the hoop (58th worst in the league). Based on that NBA.com stat, it seems that he really has trouble with shots 4-5 feet from the basket, which is surprising because I thought his main problem was blown dunks and layups. Pat's main economic advantage is the relative scarcity of people his size/length. He has a 0.0 value over replacement player, which confirms my eye test.
Prized offseason signing Javon Carter is shooting 53.8% 0-3 feet from the hoop (5th worst in the league).
That ATO Billy drew up to run a rim lob at Williams was absurd. I don't think Pat got the ball within 10 inches of the rim.
A lot of those plays called for DeMar have passing options and, at least in the post-Zach era, he often takes them when the double comes. The play that ended with Vuc bricking another 3 pointer from the top of the key had the ball in ALL of their hands — as I remember it started with DeMar, Coby drove into the paint but kicked it out, and the ball wound up in Mr. 26% And Falling's hands.
Pat Williams' summer will be an indicator of how incoherent the Bulls' front office is. If you just want a guy who does what Pat Williams does, you can get one and if you have playing time probably not pay more than $6 to $12 million for it. If you're a win-now team, that's what you'd do. If you're building for the future, obviously you lock him up, even if you're paying a premium for it beyond what "Just A Guy" would make and it doesn't really matter because you're not going to be near the tax for awhile anyway.
You can do both, but it's very expensive and requires you to cut corners elsewhere and by trying to develop players and also win-now you will likely accomplish neither. It fits the Bulls' front office evolving MO to re-sign Pat to an extension AND to acquire someone like Tobias Harris at the same time.
NBA HELLDUMP day! Is it Xmas eve or New Year's Day?
- Griff FIRED with his team in 2nd place and 43 games into his tenure! And it took entirely too long! Your lead assistant (Terry Stotts) quitting during training camp is a pretty bad sign, though I bet he wishes he would have stuck around.
I thought the Bucks would just dominate in the regular season this year. They still might (people were agonizing over the Suns, like, a week ago. NBA analysis is entire based on looking at the "L10" column in the standings.) But if you had to "get this right" after firing Budenholzer, you DEFINITELY need to "get this right" now. If I'm Doc Rivers' agent I'm demanding like a piece of ownership and $25 million/year to step in. That goes for anyone with NBA experience.
- Tristan Thompson is still in the NBA, and juicing!
- Heat acquire Terry Rozier! Despite the qualms about him I actually like this deal for Miami. They have pretty good depth and variety in salaries and players if they want to bundle Martin/Herro/Robinson for a better player, without making the thinness that has hurt them in the playoffs the last three seasons even worse. (Prior to this, if they would have traded something along the lines of Lowry and Robinson for Zach, they would have had like $160m+ spread around just 6 players next year.) Bam can cover a lot of ground and he'll have to if this is their line-up but I think they have another deal in store, though likely in the summer.
I find the griff firing an odd choice. I mean... idk. And I think rivers is massively overrated so... they can have fun with that lol.
I don't think much of Doc either, but Griff on the sidelines looked like me the morning I took the LSAT after dropping into a loft party for "a few minutes" the night before. Anyone with cred willing to take this over has them over a barrel, you can ask for anything you want and probably get it.
I mean I guess I thought they'd let him finish the year and then deal with it if it was that bad. But LOL at your description.
I don't think they can afford to waste a year of their closing window of opportunity. They're paying lots of tax and neither Giannis no Dame are young.
Also, Griffin was pretty uniquely terrible. Aside from the sideline demeanor that Gran points out,
1. He managed to insult and run off his lead assistant in training camp (Terry Stotts... who by the way has a great relationship with Dame).
2. His initial plan for defense was self-evidently terrible and quickly abandoned.
3. Offensively, they're getting by on talent, but they never seemed to be working toward the obvious goals that Griffin and the team publicly set out for themselves.
I mean the hire in the first place... Idk. Maybe it's just the clamoring for doc I don't get.
Well, the kind of guys who make a bad mistake the first time around are the kind of guys who are likely to make a bad mistake the second time around too.
There have been many trades that the Bulls could have made or picked up someone that could really help the team and win these close games but it seems like management is asleep. If the owner is so cheap that he is afraid to make a move he should a least pick up Brogdon for Ball and Julian who never gets minutes anyway. It will not cost much. We need two or three more bench players that will make a difference. Ayo is good but not consistent. You can't expect go to the playoffs wearing out your starters, Billy! Even if there is no money available you have potential in the young players, stop sending them to the G league and give them minutes instead, they may surprise you. Other teams have done it. That is how you get guys like Maxey and Jaime Jaquez. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.
Does Doc Rivers have dirt on everyone in the NBA? How does the man keep getting these top coaching jobs as a clearly mediocre coach?
100% pure ubuntu.
Supposing the Lakers to that trade with the Hawks for Murray, maybe they would be willing to go all-Klutch and follow it up with Zach+Drummond for Rui, Reeves, Vincent, and Hayes.
Lakers
G- Murray
G- Zach
F- Redish, Prince
F- Lebron, Wood
C- AD, Drummond
It's a lame return for us, but we split Zach's big immovable contract into three probably moveable guys who aren't completely without utility.
G- Coby, Vincent, Carter
G- AC, Reeves, Ayo
F- DDR (Pat)
F- Pat, Rui, Craig
C- Vuc, Hayes
Still too guard heavy. but I'd be trading Caruso if it were me, because I'm pretty certain he'll bring a good return. And DDR if he does bring a good return, but I think he's the guy we fall through the floor without, so it has to be a good return.
If we could turn around and flip Vincent or Carter, I'd do that especially if it brings in a competent big.
I've hated every trade idea involving the Lakers. The best asset we get is almost always reeves, and I'm convinced he's gnna suck when he's no longer next to lebron.
I don't disagree, but having Zach just looks completely untenable.
I haven't figured out whether those hypothetical trades adds too much salary, but Lakers are hard-capped at the apron this year
Fanspo usually catches those things and it approves the trade, the Lakers add +$3 million which it seems like it'd be easy to take care of if there's a problem.
https://i.imgur.com/0YUr2S5.png
right but after trading for Murray too?
Worse things happen at sea