80 Comments

I'm betting Giddey and Pat are each out for at least 20 games to start the season.

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And to end it? And probably in the middle of it for good measure. I'll take it if we land Flagg...

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yeah the "integrity of the game" stuff will be out the window in March, maybe earlier. Billy's probably going to quit and AK will say it's a youth movement after all.

again, this is all stuff that could be done now and instead he's wasting a season of our fandom lives

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First practice completed and all of Giddey, Williams, and Ball didn't fully participate 👍

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Same on day two 👍👍

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I'm not sure why the bulls orgs always prefer the "aw shucks" method of initiating a plan. Like every thing that happens to them is always a suprised-pikachu face moment.

"Whaaaaaa our pick isnt our pick anymore because it was protected?"

"OKC didn't want to include a pick, ah well, such is life?"

"You mean us using our only exception to sign Kirk hinrich instead of trading for him or waiting to sign him after we picked up some other useful players means we are hard capped...we had no idea!” (I'm never letting this go)

It's not even about arturas, I'm just done with everyone in that front office.

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AK shrugs and sighs, A LOT

I can only assume Michael Reinsdorf saw this as humility

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Regarding Zach, I think it's really important to be honest about his play last year. He was on the shortlist for worst player in the league. Not hyperbole. He truly was. I tracked how the Bulls did last year with him and without him. The Bulls were something like a +0.8 point differential team in games without him. When he played, they were something like -9.0 per game. Imagine being so bad that when you play for the Miami Heat you single-handedly make them as bad as the Pistons. Certainly no one on the Bulls was this bad last year. Who in the league was? Most players that bad won't play 900 minutes.

If one is honest about last year, then rehabbing Zach's value is not only not foolish, it is essential. If I were another GM right now, the only way I am taking Zach off the Bulls is if I own the Bulls draft till like 2029. Basically an inverse superstar trade. Why? Because while I think there is a good chance Zach plays way better this year, I can't be sure he won't play like last year. The odds are not negligible. Paying over 40M per year for the worst player in the league? That's an incredible risk, and I'd have to be fairly compensated for that.

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A million times this.

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the Bulls aren't being honest, they're memory-holing the beginning of the season and saying everything that went wrong with Zach was due to injury

I dunno, I question the savvy of NBA front offices here. Do they really think Zach was fundamentally different last year or was just put in a shitty situation? And how can he rehab his value on this team with worse teammates? By them having worse +/- when he's off the court?

I think, especially backwards front offices like the Lakers, believe Zach would be fine if he was just out of the misery in Chicago.

And he doesn't even need to play in games to show he's healthy. He even said yesterday he had a normal offseason, wasn't still recovering from surgery (part of the reason he elected to get surgery at that time)

I think the risk of him playing like last year, or getting hurt again, outweighs the potential of rehabbing his value. I think he could rehab his *perceived value*, but either teams are too smart to think this means he's a different player than last year, or too dumb and believe a simple change of scenery totally changes Zach regardless of how he plays to start this season. Shit, there's a non-zero risk that the Bulls would buy in to a good start and keep him.

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"Do they really think Zach was fundamentally different last year or was just put in a shitty situation?"

I think NBA front offices aren't really sure, at least not 43 million bucks sure.

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essentially we could've said this exact same thing last season, everyone knew the Bulls were shopping Zach and not getting offers they liked, and surely his value would go up if he played (camp Nashville building offensive cohesion!) and the opposite happened

I simply do not believe reports that the Bulls can't move Zach now without giving up assets. I think they have been finessed into believing that, but a better front office would've gotten this done a long time ago. Now they have to wait longer, not to increase Zach's value but to increase other teams' desperation. A delicate operation that they'll screw up like they screwed up last year.

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"a better front office would've gotten this done a long time ago."

100% correct. What's crazy is it's clear AK knew Zach wasn't very good years ago and started shopping him around. But for some reason he thought no one else realized Zach wasn't that good and he could get some sort of crazy haul back for Zach.

But it turns out if you've just given a guy a max extension and then nearly immediately turn around and start asking other teams if they want him, those teams start to wonder why a team would already be trying to get rid of their newly maxed player. And that's just for teams that didn't already think Zach was overrated and overpaid. AK should have taken the best offer he was given and moved on as quickly as possible.

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"But it turns out if you've just given a guy a max extension and then nearly immediately turn around and start asking other teams if they want him, those teams start to wonder why a team would already be trying to get rid of their newly maxed player."

It is not without precedent - Timberwolves just did this with KAT...not only were they able to get off his salary, but they were able to improve the team in the process...Clippers did the same thing a few years back with Griffin...I think its Hollinger who calls this the Birds Rights trap - essentially, there is no plan B or ability to resign a replacement if that fringe all star walks, so he gets overpaid...

However, I don't think AK was actually trying to trade Zach before his extension - even on the down-low - I think he AK actually thought Zach would be cornerstone to a successful team with the right pieces around him - and for like 25 games or some shit his assessment was looking good. The rest we know.

The problem with AK, repeated here ad nauseam, is that he waits too long to make trades which in turn devalues his assets.

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Yes, it can be done successfully. The examples you give prove that, although in Griffin's case, that was mostly just the Pistons being idiots and being willing to trade for Griffin just so they could say they had a big name on the team.

With that being said, Zach's case is at least a little different. For one, Zach was never considered as good as KAT or Griffin in their primes. Second, he's never had anywhere near the success of either of those guys.

But yes, your final paragraph sums everything up. AK waited to long, as he always does, and now he's screwed himself and the team.

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But imagine the rioting from all lil zachamaniacs surrounding the Advocate Center and banging on the gates with their shrink-flated cans of Diet Mountain Dew, chanting "Which game?/That Charlotte game! Which game?/That Charlotte game!"

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Well, no, we could not have said the same thing last season because the 2023-24 season hadn't happened yet. And the meaning of that season seems to be our issue here. If I'm at "Bulls would have to give me their next 3 drafts to take Zach right now" and you're at "Bulls shouldn't have to throw anything extra in to make this deal" I think what's most clear is that this isn't a feasible conversation.

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I think you're more accurate than most GMs, and certainly more than several awful ones. Problem is the Bulls are one of the worst themselves.

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I think the number of truly awful GMs/owners is quite a bit lower than it used to be.

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Zach isn’t great, but that’s terrible use it statistical “analysis.” I mean, there’s just a lot wrong with what you’re saying, and I’d expect better from you.

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The stats seem at most to be illustrative of the non-statistical argument, which is that Zach is a ginormous risk for any team. Wildly variable production, poor record of success , injury issues and a huge long contract.

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Aren't you a man in your 40s or something? Why are you talking like some old pastor's widow?

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My bad. Based on the decade plus we’ve been commenting on the same blog, I had respect for your view and thought you were smart. I’ll try differently.

You’re an idiot, and not a single person doing statistical analysis would think would you provided would qualify as quality. You basically took W/L record like they do for quarterbacks and put points to it so you could have decimal points and make yourself look smart.

It was lame and stupid and ignores the vast amount of context and is the epitome of trying to sound smart to cover up rhetoric laziness in your “research.”

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I was going to say something similar, but noticed how many likes TheMoon got on their original comment and figured the people would just prefer the fake analysis.

Basically the #1 no-no in data analysis is to not approach something as if you know the answer and then find data to confirm that. Unfortunately that seems to be exactly what TheMoon did above.

Regardless, Zach isn't a great player so I didn't feel like it was worth getting into an argument about, but he's far from the worst player in the league.

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Fair enough.

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The Bulls have their first lottery pick since 2020 and he doesn't get a single mention. I thought he was a solid pick in an otherwise underwhelming offseason.

Did anyone else have an opportunity to check out media day? Did Matas speak? Was there any speculation on his role with the team?

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Nope, he didn't speak. At least not in the press conference. I don't even remember there being any questions about him directed at AK and Billy.

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When Billy was going through all the stuff that you have to learn outside of the lines, I thought that was implicitly directed at Matas and maybe an indication that Billy is gonna tell him to focus on that stuff rather than minutes.

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That's because they are sending him to the G-League (you know because winning on your home court is SO important, can't have a rookie jeopardizing their main goal for the season)!

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I suspect you are just trolling...

Why would they send a lottery pick to the G-League? Julian Phillips (a mid second rounder) only spent four games there last season...Dalen Terry spent three games there the year before.

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Also Jerry will have to pay for his Uber ride to and from Hoffman Estates even during surge pricing.

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Billy said on 670 The Score last week that they'd consider sending Matas to the G-League to help him develop. He has since retracted that (sort of), per Will Gottlieb.

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Yep, that's where my (not sure it's trolling, but laughing at the expense of this incompetent organization) comment came from. Now I don't think they will do it, but just the fact that it was mentioned as a possibility tells you a lot about how this org doesn't understand where they are.

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here's a big post on Buzelis

https://allchgo.com/chicago-bulls-matas-buzelis-development-plan/

Donovan clearly received some blowback to even suggesting the GLeague to where he clarified that it was merely an option not something they've decided on.

But overall the message is, like, first become a professional by routinely eating a balanced breakfast, THEN we'll talk about playing time for a 27 win team

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assuming Patrick Williams will never be healthy (not unreasonable) then Buzelis will play, so alls well that ends well

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"When Vuc gets the ball, good things happen."

— Vuc

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He’s such an idiot. Like… how do people like this get in such positions of power and influence. I mean, I know how. But god…

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Every time, with every instance where he fails to improve, it's harder not to just call him dumb. He's not even some kind of smooth operator salesman, I truly think his lack of...anything...was seen as a feature by the 'dorfs.

I tried to bend over backwards and not criticize his intelligence because I get that English isn't his first language. but he just says - and it's not lost in translation - the dumbest shit, all the time! When given time and feedback he still says it!

And then I try to remember to objectively look at his resume. He's a former baller turned scout, completely over-promoted. His lack of preparation and and transparency is his way of saying *we* are stupid. So fuck him!

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I get what you’re saying. I’ve lived in East Asia for 12 years now, and some of the smartest people I’ve ever met can sound… not brilliant at certain times. But yeah, this ain’t it. If one is patient, you can easily read the ideas behind the words and at least know if there’s something “there.”

Maybe it’s unfair to impugn his overall “global intelligence,” but I think we can definitely say he’s really an idiot in knowing how to run an NBA franchise successfully.

As you pointed out, one of the most important things à GM/POBO does is keep his eyes on the future. They can’t affect the day-to-day much, but they can set goals (clear, measurable, attainable), and look to execute them. “Building an identity” is not that. But winning more at home is! It’s just a stupid goal for being a driving factor in a rebuilding franchise.

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In an old thread, some guy came in at the end and claimed that as an Eastern European, he understood Arturas perfectly well and he was disappointed in our bigotry. It certainly forced me to have some hard conversations about confronting anti-Lithuanianism. 😔

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I like to think I’m giving AK the maximum possible benefit of the doubt when I just completely ignore everything he says and only focus on what he does and the results.

So anti-Lithuanian prejudice has nothing to do with my conclusion that, as the head decision maker of a basketball team, he is complete and utter ass.

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You sir need a lesson in anti-Utterassianism

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I wished someone had said to Donovan: “It was reported at the time that a big reason you left OKC was because you weren’t really interested in à youth-movement rebuilding. Since you’ve left, not only has your team really not been all that competitive for contending with the best in the league, but you’re now taking the leftovers from the team you left while giving them your win-now ‘’missing piece for a contender’ player. Any regrets?”

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He’s being paid handsomely for a job that seemingly demands no results or accountability, and I’m guessing Donovan is content to ride that into the sunset while securing a bag for retirement.

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If I thought this organization was truly capable of planning ahead and looking into the distance, I’d think Giddey and Williams - your shiny objects that you traded for and extended - being injured would be a sign that they are truly tanking this season. Any chance to have the “better” players sit, would be used.

If Vucevic and LaVine weren’t on this team, they’d have a chance to start the season as the worst team in the league.

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Don't be so pessimistic, they could still be the worst team in the league! Remember how bad LaVine and Vucevic played together after the latter was acquired?

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They don't even have to ruin the integrity of the game (shudder) but just fully commit to their delusion that building an identity will make up for losing your better players. Want to be up-tempo and Giddey-fied? OK that means you start Ayo and Jalen Smith. Oops we suck (especially if Giddey and Pat are not ready to start the season), but that's at least a consistent philosophy that you're not going to get Hand-slapped by the NBA over.

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A totally non-analytical perspective is that if I remember correctly, Zach is the 19th highest paid player in the league this year. If you had a draft with those guys, he’d almost certainly be picked 19th.

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He makes the same as Trae Young (and Luka!). I don't follow the Hawks closely, but isn't Trae pretty similar to Zach, just a PG instead of SG? So he might go 18th, depending on the team's composition.

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The LaVine of the South.

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I kind of hate Trae more than any other "star" in the league, but during a dark night of the soul, I was screwing around on NBA.com's advanced stats and learned there are a few where Trae is just super-elite. Like there's him, then a bit of a gap, and then Luka, and then a huge gap, and then everyone else. I have no idea if these stats are in any way conducive to winning basketball but they sounded like they would be?

But that's Trae in a nutshell, isn't it? Maybe he's really good at like "scoring-after-two-passes," but you can plainly see how very bad he is at basic things. It's all symbolized by him taking shots from Steph Curry range, ostentatiously, like he's some kind of shooting savant, when he's a dead ass average shooter from distance.

Trae has been to the playoffs more than Zach, and deeper, and at a younger age, and it's hard to argue his teams have had much better talent than Zach's. He's also shooting below 30% from 3 point range in his playoff career, on 9 attempts per game. Pretty hard to look at that and think "Wow you are good at your job."

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The one thing I'll disagree with here is that Trae is an amazing shooter.

The key thing is scoring after 0 passes. Hitting that pull up 3 is maybe the most difficult shot. He, Steph, and Luka are all right there as far being able to make it. About 37% on high volume is better than pretty much everyone else.

In a way, Trae Young is like the ideal Chicago Bull from the Reinsdorf perspective. He will singlehandedly make you "competitive" without the need for worry or pay for being anything more than that.

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He really would be the perfect Bulls. I absolutely expect the Bulls to trade for him when he's like 32 and washed.

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Zach is like a homeless man's Trae.

1. "Can't win with Trae Young" means you make it a round or two in the playoffs and can't win.. "Can't win with Zach" means you don't make it to the playoffs.

2. Trae just turned 26 a few days ago. Lavine is going to be 30 in a couple months.

3. All that nasty injury history.

There is literally no team that would take the busted up 30 year old guy over the 26 year old.

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Winning at home is all about giving “their fans” a good night out. Need W’s to sell those corporate season tickets. The TV watchers who want another championship need to quit whining.

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Michael gets to watch from the owner's suite!

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"Remember, part of the reason AK says he doesn’t make in-season moves is because of the chaos it’ll bring"

I'm assuming he doesn't make in-season moves because the Bulls have to foot the bill for relocation. Per the CBA Article 3, Section 1 the Bulls are on the hook for the moving expenses and temporary accommodation.

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Look out everybody, all that increased Vuc usage is going to amount to 10 extra wins over playing a random 7 foot stiff in his place. They're going to Vuc themselves out of the lottery by giving this productive, winning player the ball more!

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If the Bulls give the ball to Vuc at the 3 point line 10 extra times a game we're guaranteed to keep that top 10 pick.

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He's confident that there are better ways to use him! I guess these idiots did just give him a $60 million contract so unfortunately there are people outside of his family reinforcing Vucevic's "I don't suck and should be allowed to do more" narrative.

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On the one hand, I would love for Vucevic to take 26 shots per game and lead us into the worst record in the league.

On the other hand, I need my eyes and would prefer not to gouge them out from watching Vucevic play.

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More then anything, I just desperately don't want to see Nikola Vucevic on this team anymore.

Realistically, they should trade everyone except for Matas, Coby, Ayo and maybe Patrick, yeah?

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tank humping sucks and all, but it's like the only path right now

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they missed the waive-and-stretch deadline for Vuc, heh

so if they just cut him (they're too afraid to have him come off the bench) he's on the books for the $20M this season. But next season could be spread out over 3 years.

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I mean, they might as well let Vooch lead this team to one of the worst records in the league and see if someone will take him at the deadline or next offseason. Not much of a point in waiving and stretching when it's not like they'll be anywhere close to the cap for the next few years.

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Why not trade Coby and Ayo? Not saying I want those guys traded, but they're also two of the team's best assets. If they're going to tank, might as well fully commit and trade those guys for as many draft picks as they can get.

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Gee, Arturas certainly has a "type" of player in mind this summer:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/2024/10/03/chicago-bulls-sign-josh-primo/

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I just don't understand this signing to begin with. You have a million guards on the team. Who cares if this guy is mildly talented? He's pointless to your team. Then add in that he has some serious sexual baggage, it just makes it more unnecessary.

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plus he's hurt

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Favor to agent maybe?

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I was looking at that angle but Primo is not represented by a major agency, let alone Rich Paul and Associates

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I mean even if Primo is great it makes no sense. How can he be Giddey's wingman when he's not allowed within 500 feet of high schools?

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I'm genuinely curious if there is even a chance the team gets asked about this. I'm not interested in their sensitivity - come one, come all to Derrick Rose night!!! - but if they applied any resources to vetting Primo. Or if they just saw the Clippers brought him back to the NBA and why re-do their work?

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notable that the team never publicly announced this, but did pass it to KC to tweet.

they were quick to announce when they released Domask yesterday

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It's just a sad reach . This is a team that does so little work at the end of the roster and this is the guy you try to resurrect?

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The Nets got a draft pick for taking on Ziaire Williams, which isn't much but is still one more draft pick than Chicago got in all of their off-season transactions combined.

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I am genuinely curious what outlets are paying for anyone to cover training camp. Sit around for anywhere between 1-3 hours and then have Billy say 'such and such did some contact'

This is the case with most NBA teams where there isn't much information. But most NBA teams are inherently interesting

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And fun times, Josh Primo is in the building. I hate this organization

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for an org that wouldn't touch jr smith with a 10 ft pole, really weird that they'd pick this dude up.

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They've truly moved on from John Paxson

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