I feel like the general belief is that this will be the last season of Vooch in a Bulls uniform. But will it be? Would it be that surprising to see him sign another deal this summer to stay with the team?
It's clear Vooch still has enough gas left in the tank to be a backup center (or even just veteran mentor) for at least two or three more years. My guess is Vooch's dreams of playing meaningful basketball are basically all but over. What if he tests the market and basically only gets offers for the vet minimum and then the Bulls swoop in and offer him a three year deal in the $20-25 million range? It would be hard for him to turn down one final payday like that.
This doesn't seem all that unlikely to me. We know AK's going to have a huge amount of money burning a hole in his pocket this upcoming summer. We know he thinks he's going to use that on a big free agent splash. We also know that's highly unlikely, so he's going to have to pivot. My guess is he ends up paying Coby like $35 million a year just because Coby is a known quantity to him and he's got the money to do it. He'll still have some money left over, so why not bring back another known quantity in Vooch?
Also an indictment of the Jalen Smith contract that he can't replace Vuc. He was supplanted by Zach Collins! Collins is rarely healthy though I don't expect him in the rotation much
I don't know. I obviously don't love the Smith signing like most on here, but I don't think you sign a guy for $7 million a year expecting him to become your starting center. I thought of the Smith signing as a Drummond replacement. In AK's eyes, they have their starting center. They just needed a backup.
I doubt Vuc is coming back. We could have $50 million in cap space, and I hope our priority will be to make big offers to one or more of the young centers: Kessler, Duren and Mark Williams. Maybe Post is on that list too if he gets better.
I expect we will renounce our rights to Vuc, there is no reason to keep them. He will be free to negotiate with any team as a UFA. I guess it's possible that we will get a young center and want to bring Vuc back as a backup/mentor. If that happens, Yay!
As far as Coby, we will have to see. Jalen Green got $33 million per year. If Coby can show he's better than Green, than I guess he's worth $35.
I should clarify that I'm not saying Vooch will be back. I was more just saying that it seems like everyone talks about Vooch as if it's certain he won't be a Bull next year and I think there's certainly a possibility AK brings back his favorite acquisition.
Regarding Coby, I'm not sure the Jalen Green comparison is that great. Green is two years younger and showed a lot more upside a lot earlier in his career than Coby did. Being young and showing upside tends to get you better offers than heading into your prime and looking like a solid player.
Also, I think the new CBA rules will hurt Coby. Young guys like Green, Suggs, and Quickley all got $30+ million per year contracts because they were young and looked they could potentially be solid third or fourth options. Now their teams have either traded them or are looking to move them. Not because those guys have gotten worse but because those contracts are harder to justify under the current cap rules. Guys like that used to get contracts that were a little below the max. Now those contracts seem to be disappearing. You either get a max or you're getting in the 20's at most.
Teams have to be a lot more careful with the money they spend now and the guys that seem to be getting hurt the most from that are the guys that aren't good enough for max contracts, but deserve considerably more than the MLE. Unfortunately that's exactly where Coby falls.
Luckily for him, he plays for one of the dumbest front offices in the league. He may very well end up with a contract around $35 million a year, but my guess is he won't be worth it even if he gets it.
We are basically saying the same thing about White: he needs to get better if he wants a $35 million contract.
I don't think the teams that signed Green. Suggs and Quickley regret those deals, though. And I don't think Magic and Raptors are looking to move those guys. Quickley and Suggs are both good 2-way players. They will be with their teams for a while unless somebody offers Kevin Durant for them.
Green and White could get devalued in the future though because teams are paying more attention to having well rounded players, and those two are weak defenders. As you say, Green is younger and has a better chance to improve.
I also think there will be several teams with significant cap room next summer, so there will be a market for Coby, at whatever level he shows himself to be.
This seems like there is a lot of "plan for the future and get younger, maybe worse immediately, hopefully better in the long-term" thinking in this, and I'm not sure that's what the Bulls do.
I'm obviously biased, but Hinrich was way better for the Bulls (before he got old) than Vooch ever was. It's pretty normal for management to love guys who just go out and play their ass off, even if they're not the most talented. That's not Vooch.
Funny to think the Bulls have bent over backwards for Vuc and he likely is still a bit mad they didn't just buy him out early in the summer when teams had money and roles. I suppose injuries will open things up again after trade deadline
Vuc for Anfernee Simons or for Terry Rozier both make some sense, as those guys both make $6 million more that Niko and are not any good. But two things: (1) even though Vuc could help those teams, neither Boston or Miami seem to be willing to give up picks to get rid of their guys and (2) I doubt that Karnisovas would even want to take on salary for picks, his pay plan seems to be based on keeping team salary as low as possible while staying "competitive".
If Horford has another year left in his old bones, that will be a good move. Warriors could still use Vuc maybe, Horford is probably a 20-25 minute guy now. Vuc and our Portland pick would be an easy deal on our end.
GS might be better off though letting Kuminga take the $7.9 million QO and using the extra dollars to fill out their roster with cheaper vets.
I was trying to decide which teams would prefer Vuc or Collins.
If I'm the Warriors, I've got Horford and Post and Draymond, after thinking for a minute, Id probably go with Collins because he's bringing some defense to the table. It'd be pretty rare that I'd play Vuc over Post, but situationally, Id play Collins over him I think.
Post started out great for GS from the 3 point line. But he faded a bit as the season went on, didn't he? And he wasn't very good in the playoffs. He's already 25, so I am not sure how much upside he will have. With a 39 year old starting center, I'm not thinking Warriors want to depend on Post being their only other center.
I just realized that the Warriors need to have Kuminga on a tradable contract in the event that Giannis (or Embiid, Towns, etc.) become available. GS would need to trade $50 million or so in salaries to swap for one of those guys and they need Kuminga's $22.5 million as part of that.
On the other hand, Warriors can save $70 million in luxury taxes if Kuminga takes the QO.
Still, I am betting on him ending up with a 3 year $76 million deal, with a player option on the 3rd year.
Remember that episode of Seinfeld where Jerry offers his girlfriend a bite of pie and she just keeps shaking her head no without giving any explanation?
That’s how this Vuc situation feels.
Us: Hey, AK. How about trading Vuc?
AK: *shakes head no*
Us: No? But he’s not very good and not helping the team win.
AK: *shakes head no*
Us: His minutes should go to younger players.
AK: *shakes head no*
Us: He doesn’t fit the team’s playing style.
AK: *shakes head no*
Us: No one cares anymore about what you gave up in the trade for him. We’re ready for you to move on from him. We promise.
It's just so fuckin weird AK unreservedly loves 1) touting the damn late season record and style and 2) Vucevic, despite how poorly those two things fit together.
I would clarify this line saying the team's "mission statement is to win a slightly below average amount of games this year."
I think they would be perfectly happy to win lots of games. But A) They actually believe the currently constructed team can have a winning record, B) Ownership and management have an understanding that they can't spend the $$$ it would take to be seriously competitive, and C) AK isn't the type of clever GM who can get results within small-market economic constraints.
Basically, they're coasting on denial and false hope. It's like a friend who books a discounted mid-March trip to the Jersey Shore, hoping to get some sun and swim on the beach. Sure, you tell them it's not gonna be beach season, but they respond by showing you a stretch of unseasonably warm days recorded in March of 2021 to prove it's definitely possible. They don't WANT it to be cold but they'd have to be very lucky for it to be warm.
And Vuc is the room at an aging Marriott Courtyard they pre-paid for the week. No view, few amenities, but it's comfortable enough and there's free breakfast.
The only thing I despise more than this front office is Vuc. But I don't think they overvalue him at this point. He was part of a series of actually decent signings and moves that didn't work out and that they were, we all know, too slow to unwind from. But they mostly have. It's just that Vuc is unwindable.
Everything associated with Vuc’s tenure aligns with what the AK front office stands for:
- Bad trades
- Fixations on numbers that don’t matter
- Striving for mediocrity
- Poor performances in the playoffs/play-in
- Unnecessary contracts
- Keeping vets on the roster for too long
I think a large reason why they’ve been afraid to move on from Vuc is because he ensures the team at least has a floor above the absolutely terrible teams in the league that win less than 30 games. I believe the only goal the Reinsdorfs had for AK was “Don’t let this team reach the basement of the league”, so Vuc is his security blanket.
I think your last paragraph nails it. I think many jaded/cynical Bulls fans are so sick of Vuc and what he symbolizes (as you noted) that they move straight to "Vuc sucks" and dwell on his inadequacies. I'm not going to try to list his strengths on this blog (lest the pitchforks and torches come out for me), but his stable presence, basketball skill level, and decent IQ give him an advantage over teams throwing clueless players out there -- which happens all too often in this league.
He's not someone who can do anything to raise our ceiling, but I do think we'd probably lose a few extra games if he was gone. So losing him without an adequate replacement would be a huge risk for this current Bulls regime's mandate, as those few games (again, as you noted) might be the difference between a play-in spot or no chance at the playoffs. Missing the play-in while TRYING to make the postseason is maybe the only thing that'll raise Reinsdorf's ire.
The Bulls for the first time in a while have 3 viable centers, and really I can't remember an instance where this was the case. Assuming the pace stays the same, this is sort of an interesting roster strategy and hopefully that means less minutes for Vuc overall with the ability to play matchups a bit more and foul a bit more.
The problem though is that virtually every player on the Bulls roster is defensively challenged, and so it would be nice if we had a center who was a good defender that could help out. Unfortunately that is not the case as none of those three are strong on that end.
I would give more minutes to Smith. He moves better than the other two and can guard the three point line a bit better.
Interesting that Smith is 5 days older than Quinten Post. Smith seems to me to be a more capable offensive player than Post, and a more physical defender.
Zach has spots where he clicks with his shot, but overall his offense seems the weakest of our three centers. I will give you that he's the best defender in the paint.
Smith had one really good season shooting the 3 and has been mainly below average for the majority of his career including last season(32%). I'm not saying Collins is any good either but he has the same career 3point % as Smith
Not sure why people think Smith is all that capable on offense and Collins is more than a bit better on defense so seems obvious to me.
Either way, we need a real center and not the scrubs we have including Vuc
I think Smith is similar to Pat in the sense that because the Bulls took a chance on him, people want to assume that just because he's not playing that the Bulls must just be misusing him or something.
But the truth is, he was exactly the same in Indiana. Carlisle wanted to play him, but he was bad and he fell out of the rotation. Outside of like a month or two he wasn't a good shooter. Defensively he's basically a Vuc level defender. While he blocks more shots, his general defensive awareness is pretty low and he's not strong enough to body up on bigger centers that Vuc can. He doesn't set screens all that well.
You watch a lot more Pacer games than I do, but I don't think Smith fell out of the rotation at Indiana. Before the trade for Siakam, Smith had a few spot starts at forward and was averaging 18 minutes per game. After the Pacers got Siakam his minutes fell to 16 minutes, which I think is understandable when you add an All-Star level player, but he was still in the rotation through the end of the year. In the playoffs, when the rotations shorten up, it looks like Smith lost his minutes to Toppin, and I get that I guess, Obi is more of an energy player.
At 215 pounds Smith is more of a small ball 5, and not a bruiser like Collins and Vuc, but that's okay. At this point I would like to see us play the younger guys, like Smith (25) and Collins (27) and let the veteran Vuc go to a team that could leverage him more.
Here's something else to think about. Is Vuc better than Thomas Bryant? Eh... sure. But you could sign Bryant for $2M right now, and you'd have to trade away $20M of players on your team to get Vuc.
Unless you have $20M of player you really want to get rid of (probably because they're under contract for future years) you probably won't trade for Vuc. And then you'd have to give up a pick, not because Vuc is great, but because he's an expiring contract and you're using him to shed salary.
Bryant is so bad now that Pacers, who don't even have a center, didn't re-sign him.
Vuc on the other hand can still play, but he's not worth anywhere near $20 million. As you say, a team would have to want to take on his salary because (1) he can still be productive in a supporting role and (2) he's an expiring contract. I'm sure Spoelstra could find a role for him, for instance.
Ziller is usually pretty insightful but today he was talking about the Heat, and who they should start now that Herro is out. He thought Haywood Highsmith should be in the mix, which is pretty funny since (1) he is also hurt, and (2) he got traded to Brooklyn a month ago.
With the news on Fred VanVleet, I wonder if the Rockets would be interested in Coby as a one-year rental. They're definitely "going for it" after acquiring KD, and aside from the experience and championship pedigree, Coby offers a lot of the same things Fred was going to provide for that team (and perhaps more in certain aspects).
Not that I trust AK to make a good deal for us, but Houston does have a surplus of future draft assets....
Or perhaps Ayo, with a different skill set, would be appealing to Houston. I'm not sure he'd bring back anything that valuable, but losing Ayo is less likely to make AK anxious about contending for an 8th-10th seed.
Just another Bulls centers point. Bulls rarely use a small ball center, which is weird given how fast they play. 145 out of 4000 minutes last year (Buzelis 90, PWill 45, Julian Phillips 10). If Phillips and Buzelis put on more weight and PWill ... does something, maybe that goes up.
“I personally think it’s going to be hard for them to trade him because he’s an expiring contract now. And what team is going to give up a lot when they can probably sign him for pretty cheap on the open market next season as a veteran piece for a winning team."
This is true, of course, but...he said after the deadline that it'd be EASIER to trade Vuc because his contract was expiring! What changed besides AK not whispering it to you? Why would you repeat what AK says as a source who knows how trades work?
It's only harder to trade him because his value is less than a player of equal ability on a longer contract and AK doesn't comprehend the value in draft picks. It would be easier to trade him if AK understood that acquiring some value for Ayo is better than acquiring no-value for Ayo.
Ayo is on the edge of what is a deep 1-3 rotation. Dalen Terry, who's motivation is the difference between 0 dollars and 50 million dollars right now, might challenge him in the pecking order as well as Tre Jones. If it's hard to trade Ayo right now, just wait til he's not playing!
Yeah, KC is mostly just a mouthpiece for the team now. The message seems to be that Karnisovas is having a hard time trading Vucevic. Not really a surprise but I suppose we should get used to the fact that Vuc will be on the Bulls again this fall.
I feel like the general belief is that this will be the last season of Vooch in a Bulls uniform. But will it be? Would it be that surprising to see him sign another deal this summer to stay with the team?
It's clear Vooch still has enough gas left in the tank to be a backup center (or even just veteran mentor) for at least two or three more years. My guess is Vooch's dreams of playing meaningful basketball are basically all but over. What if he tests the market and basically only gets offers for the vet minimum and then the Bulls swoop in and offer him a three year deal in the $20-25 million range? It would be hard for him to turn down one final payday like that.
This doesn't seem all that unlikely to me. We know AK's going to have a huge amount of money burning a hole in his pocket this upcoming summer. We know he thinks he's going to use that on a big free agent splash. We also know that's highly unlikely, so he's going to have to pivot. My guess is he ends up paying Coby like $35 million a year just because Coby is a known quantity to him and he's got the money to do it. He'll still have some money left over, so why not bring back another known quantity in Vooch?
Also an indictment of the Jalen Smith contract that he can't replace Vuc. He was supplanted by Zach Collins! Collins is rarely healthy though I don't expect him in the rotation much
I don't know. I obviously don't love the Smith signing like most on here, but I don't think you sign a guy for $7 million a year expecting him to become your starting center. I thought of the Smith signing as a Drummond replacement. In AK's eyes, they have their starting center. They just needed a backup.
giving a backup 3 guaranteed years on a non-trivial deal is pretty dumb. So on brand for AK
Totally agree.
Especially when you supposedly want cap flexibility, Smith would have turned down the offer if 3rd year was team option? (Klutch client, by the way)
I doubt Vuc is coming back. We could have $50 million in cap space, and I hope our priority will be to make big offers to one or more of the young centers: Kessler, Duren and Mark Williams. Maybe Post is on that list too if he gets better.
I expect we will renounce our rights to Vuc, there is no reason to keep them. He will be free to negotiate with any team as a UFA. I guess it's possible that we will get a young center and want to bring Vuc back as a backup/mentor. If that happens, Yay!
As far as Coby, we will have to see. Jalen Green got $33 million per year. If Coby can show he's better than Green, than I guess he's worth $35.
I should clarify that I'm not saying Vooch will be back. I was more just saying that it seems like everyone talks about Vooch as if it's certain he won't be a Bull next year and I think there's certainly a possibility AK brings back his favorite acquisition.
Regarding Coby, I'm not sure the Jalen Green comparison is that great. Green is two years younger and showed a lot more upside a lot earlier in his career than Coby did. Being young and showing upside tends to get you better offers than heading into your prime and looking like a solid player.
Also, I think the new CBA rules will hurt Coby. Young guys like Green, Suggs, and Quickley all got $30+ million per year contracts because they were young and looked they could potentially be solid third or fourth options. Now their teams have either traded them or are looking to move them. Not because those guys have gotten worse but because those contracts are harder to justify under the current cap rules. Guys like that used to get contracts that were a little below the max. Now those contracts seem to be disappearing. You either get a max or you're getting in the 20's at most.
Teams have to be a lot more careful with the money they spend now and the guys that seem to be getting hurt the most from that are the guys that aren't good enough for max contracts, but deserve considerably more than the MLE. Unfortunately that's exactly where Coby falls.
Luckily for him, he plays for one of the dumbest front offices in the league. He may very well end up with a contract around $35 million a year, but my guess is he won't be worth it even if he gets it.
We are basically saying the same thing about White: he needs to get better if he wants a $35 million contract.
I don't think the teams that signed Green. Suggs and Quickley regret those deals, though. And I don't think Magic and Raptors are looking to move those guys. Quickley and Suggs are both good 2-way players. They will be with their teams for a while unless somebody offers Kevin Durant for them.
Green and White could get devalued in the future though because teams are paying more attention to having well rounded players, and those two are weak defenders. As you say, Green is younger and has a better chance to improve.
I also think there will be several teams with significant cap room next summer, so there will be a market for Coby, at whatever level he shows himself to be.
This seems like there is a lot of "plan for the future and get younger, maybe worse immediately, hopefully better in the long-term" thinking in this, and I'm not sure that's what the Bulls do.
Vuc is the new Heinrich. A less than mediocre white guy who management loves for some reason. And refuses to replace with a better player
I'm obviously biased, but Hinrich was way better for the Bulls (before he got old) than Vooch ever was. It's pretty normal for management to love guys who just go out and play their ass off, even if they're not the most talented. That's not Vooch.
Kuminga @ $26k for Vuc works as a sign and trade. Just saying.
Not for the Warriors. They're gonna sign Horford for a few million
Funny to think the Bulls have bent over backwards for Vuc and he likely is still a bit mad they didn't just buy him out early in the summer when teams had money and roles. I suppose injuries will open things up again after trade deadline
Vuc for Anfernee Simons or for Terry Rozier both make some sense, as those guys both make $6 million more that Niko and are not any good. But two things: (1) even though Vuc could help those teams, neither Boston or Miami seem to be willing to give up picks to get rid of their guys and (2) I doubt that Karnisovas would even want to take on salary for picks, his pay plan seems to be based on keeping team salary as low as possible while staying "competitive".
yep, those 2 factors mean no deal, and why there was never going to be a deal
Well, cross Miami off the list of teams who might want Vuc. They just signed Achiuwa.
If Horford has another year left in his old bones, that will be a good move. Warriors could still use Vuc maybe, Horford is probably a 20-25 minute guy now. Vuc and our Portland pick would be an easy deal on our end.
GS might be better off though letting Kuminga take the $7.9 million QO and using the extra dollars to fill out their roster with cheaper vets.
I was trying to decide which teams would prefer Vuc or Collins.
If I'm the Warriors, I've got Horford and Post and Draymond, after thinking for a minute, Id probably go with Collins because he's bringing some defense to the table. It'd be pretty rare that I'd play Vuc over Post, but situationally, Id play Collins over him I think.
That would be fine too. Collins moves better than Vic, and has the size to body up on some of the bigger centers.
I don't know why people keep thinking the Warriors want or need Vuc. They have Post so what's the point?
Post started out great for GS from the 3 point line. But he faded a bit as the season went on, didn't he? And he wasn't very good in the playoffs. He's already 25, so I am not sure how much upside he will have. With a 39 year old starting center, I'm not thinking Warriors want to depend on Post being their only other center.
I just realized that the Warriors need to have Kuminga on a tradable contract in the event that Giannis (or Embiid, Towns, etc.) become available. GS would need to trade $50 million or so in salaries to swap for one of those guys and they need Kuminga's $22.5 million as part of that.
On the other hand, Warriors can save $70 million in luxury taxes if Kuminga takes the QO.
Still, I am betting on him ending up with a 3 year $76 million deal, with a player option on the 3rd year.
Remember that episode of Seinfeld where Jerry offers his girlfriend a bite of pie and she just keeps shaking her head no without giving any explanation?
That’s how this Vuc situation feels.
Us: Hey, AK. How about trading Vuc?
AK: *shakes head no*
Us: No? But he’s not very good and not helping the team win.
AK: *shakes head no*
Us: His minutes should go to younger players.
AK: *shakes head no*
Us: He doesn’t fit the team’s playing style.
AK: *shakes head no*
Us: No one cares anymore about what you gave up in the trade for him. We’re ready for you to move on from him. We promise.
AK: *shakes head no*
That's funny, but I think AK has been trying to trade him but can't get anything for him.
It's just so fuckin weird AK unreservedly loves 1) touting the damn late season record and style and 2) Vucevic, despite how poorly those two things fit together.
I would clarify this line saying the team's "mission statement is to win a slightly below average amount of games this year."
I think they would be perfectly happy to win lots of games. But A) They actually believe the currently constructed team can have a winning record, B) Ownership and management have an understanding that they can't spend the $$$ it would take to be seriously competitive, and C) AK isn't the type of clever GM who can get results within small-market economic constraints.
Basically, they're coasting on denial and false hope. It's like a friend who books a discounted mid-March trip to the Jersey Shore, hoping to get some sun and swim on the beach. Sure, you tell them it's not gonna be beach season, but they respond by showing you a stretch of unseasonably warm days recorded in March of 2021 to prove it's definitely possible. They don't WANT it to be cold but they'd have to be very lucky for it to be warm.
And Vuc is the room at an aging Marriott Courtyard they pre-paid for the week. No view, few amenities, but it's comfortable enough and there's free breakfast.
The only thing I despise more than this front office is Vuc. But I don't think they overvalue him at this point. He was part of a series of actually decent signings and moves that didn't work out and that they were, we all know, too slow to unwind from. But they mostly have. It's just that Vuc is unwindable.
Everything associated with Vuc’s tenure aligns with what the AK front office stands for:
- Bad trades
- Fixations on numbers that don’t matter
- Striving for mediocrity
- Poor performances in the playoffs/play-in
- Unnecessary contracts
- Keeping vets on the roster for too long
I think a large reason why they’ve been afraid to move on from Vuc is because he ensures the team at least has a floor above the absolutely terrible teams in the league that win less than 30 games. I believe the only goal the Reinsdorfs had for AK was “Don’t let this team reach the basement of the league”, so Vuc is his security blanket.
I think your last paragraph nails it. I think many jaded/cynical Bulls fans are so sick of Vuc and what he symbolizes (as you noted) that they move straight to "Vuc sucks" and dwell on his inadequacies. I'm not going to try to list his strengths on this blog (lest the pitchforks and torches come out for me), but his stable presence, basketball skill level, and decent IQ give him an advantage over teams throwing clueless players out there -- which happens all too often in this league.
He's not someone who can do anything to raise our ceiling, but I do think we'd probably lose a few extra games if he was gone. So losing him without an adequate replacement would be a huge risk for this current Bulls regime's mandate, as those few games (again, as you noted) might be the difference between a play-in spot or no chance at the playoffs. Missing the play-in while TRYING to make the postseason is maybe the only thing that'll raise Reinsdorf's ire.
Vuc sucks
The Bulls for the first time in a while have 3 viable centers, and really I can't remember an instance where this was the case. Assuming the pace stays the same, this is sort of an interesting roster strategy and hopefully that means less minutes for Vuc overall with the ability to play matchups a bit more and foul a bit more.
The problem though is that virtually every player on the Bulls roster is defensively challenged, and so it would be nice if we had a center who was a good defender that could help out. Unfortunately that is not the case as none of those three are strong on that end.
I would give more minutes to Smith. He moves better than the other two and can guard the three point line a bit better.
Yeah I thought Smith played well, got rebounds, hit 3s, but didn't really seem in the coach's favor for whatever reason.
Lowkey Smith kinda sucks. He seems like a shooter but really isn't. He can get boards but i'm not impressed by his defense.
Collins is honestly the best defender of the 3. I'd give him the most minutes out of the 3
Interesting that Smith is 5 days older than Quinten Post. Smith seems to me to be a more capable offensive player than Post, and a more physical defender.
Zach has spots where he clicks with his shot, but overall his offense seems the weakest of our three centers. I will give you that he's the best defender in the paint.
Smith had one really good season shooting the 3 and has been mainly below average for the majority of his career including last season(32%). I'm not saying Collins is any good either but he has the same career 3point % as Smith
Not sure why people think Smith is all that capable on offense and Collins is more than a bit better on defense so seems obvious to me.
Either way, we need a real center and not the scrubs we have including Vuc
I think Smith is similar to Pat in the sense that because the Bulls took a chance on him, people want to assume that just because he's not playing that the Bulls must just be misusing him or something.
But the truth is, he was exactly the same in Indiana. Carlisle wanted to play him, but he was bad and he fell out of the rotation. Outside of like a month or two he wasn't a good shooter. Defensively he's basically a Vuc level defender. While he blocks more shots, his general defensive awareness is pretty low and he's not strong enough to body up on bigger centers that Vuc can. He doesn't set screens all that well.
You watch a lot more Pacer games than I do, but I don't think Smith fell out of the rotation at Indiana. Before the trade for Siakam, Smith had a few spot starts at forward and was averaging 18 minutes per game. After the Pacers got Siakam his minutes fell to 16 minutes, which I think is understandable when you add an All-Star level player, but he was still in the rotation through the end of the year. In the playoffs, when the rotations shorten up, it looks like Smith lost his minutes to Toppin, and I get that I guess, Obi is more of an energy player.
At 215 pounds Smith is more of a small ball 5, and not a bruiser like Collins and Vuc, but that's okay. At this point I would like to see us play the younger guys, like Smith (25) and Collins (27) and let the veteran Vuc go to a team that could leverage him more.
This is a top ten team in the Eastern Conference and dangerous in a one-game play-in.
Here's something else to think about. Is Vuc better than Thomas Bryant? Eh... sure. But you could sign Bryant for $2M right now, and you'd have to trade away $20M of players on your team to get Vuc.
Unless you have $20M of player you really want to get rid of (probably because they're under contract for future years) you probably won't trade for Vuc. And then you'd have to give up a pick, not because Vuc is great, but because he's an expiring contract and you're using him to shed salary.
Bryant is so bad now that Pacers, who don't even have a center, didn't re-sign him.
Vuc on the other hand can still play, but he's not worth anywhere near $20 million. As you say, a team would have to want to take on his salary because (1) he can still be productive in a supporting role and (2) he's an expiring contract. I'm sure Spoelstra could find a role for him, for instance.
Bryant signed by the Cavs just yesterday. Cavs have 11 nba players currently, Bryant brings that to 12.
they're over the second apron which is why roster count is so low
Anybody else read Good Morning It's Basketball?
Ziller is usually pretty insightful but today he was talking about the Heat, and who they should start now that Herro is out. He thought Haywood Highsmith should be in the mix, which is pretty funny since (1) he is also hurt, and (2) he got traded to Brooklyn a month ago.
I'm on the free list so I didn't see this article, but GMIB is great.
He apologized today for his boner.
With the news on Fred VanVleet, I wonder if the Rockets would be interested in Coby as a one-year rental. They're definitely "going for it" after acquiring KD, and aside from the experience and championship pedigree, Coby offers a lot of the same things Fred was going to provide for that team (and perhaps more in certain aspects).
Not that I trust AK to make a good deal for us, but Houston does have a surplus of future draft assets....
Or perhaps Ayo, with a different skill set, would be appealing to Houston. I'm not sure he'd bring back anything that valuable, but losing Ayo is less likely to make AK anxious about contending for an 8th-10th seed.
Jones for Eason.
Technically can't be done until 12/15, but good idea
Just another Bulls centers point. Bulls rarely use a small ball center, which is weird given how fast they play. 145 out of 4000 minutes last year (Buzelis 90, PWill 45, Julian Phillips 10). If Phillips and Buzelis put on more weight and PWill ... does something, maybe that goes up.
We could see more of Williams there this year, as he needs something to do. I think of Smith as a smallball 5 too.
KC Johnson drives me crazy man
https://www.bleachernation.com/bulls/2025/09/24/bulls-ayo-terry-off/
“I personally think it’s going to be hard for them to trade him because he’s an expiring contract now. And what team is going to give up a lot when they can probably sign him for pretty cheap on the open market next season as a veteran piece for a winning team."
This is true, of course, but...he said after the deadline that it'd be EASIER to trade Vuc because his contract was expiring! What changed besides AK not whispering it to you? Why would you repeat what AK says as a source who knows how trades work?
It's only harder to trade him because his value is less than a player of equal ability on a longer contract and AK doesn't comprehend the value in draft picks. It would be easier to trade him if AK understood that acquiring some value for Ayo is better than acquiring no-value for Ayo.
Ayo is on the edge of what is a deep 1-3 rotation. Dalen Terry, who's motivation is the difference between 0 dollars and 50 million dollars right now, might challenge him in the pecking order as well as Tre Jones. If it's hard to trade Ayo right now, just wait til he's not playing!
He's talking about Vuc but yes it applies everywhere
Because he also works for the Bulls? So the constant is whatever gives the Bulls cover.
Right it's on the reader/aggregator at this point
Yeah, KC is mostly just a mouthpiece for the team now. The message seems to be that Karnisovas is having a hard time trading Vucevic. Not really a surprise but I suppose we should get used to the fact that Vuc will be on the Bulls again this fall.