Am under the impression that DDR wants a 2 year deal for a total of $80 million. It isn't as if DDR is the piece that makes the Bulls a title contender. Bulls need more height and athleticism on the front line.
I suppose I didn't put actual parameters, but I also wouldn't go a third season I DeRozan and cap the money at his immediately-tradeable amount (it's around $30M)
I think you’ve hit on the cycle of being a Bulls fan.
We watch them try to contend for a few years, grow frustrated with their inability to get out of the middle, and say they should just blow it up.
Then they do blow it up (usually at least a year after they should have). We watch them lose for a few years, grow frustrated with their inability to draft a generational talent, and say they should just try to win again.
They don’t want to spend the money required to contend when they choose the winning path. And they don’t want to lose the amount of games required to rebuild. So they just float around between the two different kinds of 6th place. They’ll either be the 6th seed in the playoffs or have the 6th pick in the draft.
I want to break the wheel by getting new decision-makers. The cycle will go way too long if AKME is allowed to gain runway by tearing down their own mistake. If they instead keep trying and making mistakes and it all blows up, you get the result of a rebuild AND new management. And more quickly. I don't think a pick in the teens this draft is as valuable.
But even with AKME's seemingly endless mistakes, they still were able to maintain a play-in team (because it actually takes more skill to be good or bad, but not much skill to be mediocre).
Jerry is clearly fine with a mediocre team that's making a lot of money. I don't think AKME continuing to look like idiots while putting out a mediocre product is going to get them fired anytime soon.
So far so good. Right now the Bulls' biggest problem would be Mirotic-ing themselves out of the bottom of the flattened-odds lottery. DeMar, Zach and Vuc on this team threatens that, so we'll get the true measure of AKME soon. Some additional young projects and aggregate-able, tradable contracts would be a nice bonus but the goal should be a shot at the top of next year's draft while watching Coby, Giddey, PW and Ayo grow. I can think of all lot worse ways to spend the next Bulls' season.
Are you good with also watching Terry, Vuc, Phillips, Sanago, Bitim, Craig, Matas and Carter? Cause there is gonna be some heavy minus minutes from that crew.
Is Bitim's contract guaranteed? It appears so. Understand Bitim is a fan favorite but don't understand why and how the Bulls could give Bitim a guaranteed contract. Understand the contract isn't for a material amount of money.
I wonder about the after-effects of retinal detachment with him. That's a pretty serious injury for someone who counts 3-point shooting as their core skill.
I think people want to believe they aren't morons, and surely handicapped by ownership (or society?) wanting them to 'create a good basketball team'. If they are free to create a terrible basketball team, just think of what they can accomplish!
Ha you won't spend any attention on that team at all. Unless it's to groan that Ayo plays too hard and they finish 9th worst. That's the annoying part of making 'losing games' = 'the goal'
I'm struggling to see where DeRozan's market is. No one wants to sign him for more than a couple years and he'd lose face taking less than the $28M of his last deal. Then there's his play style, which does not match up with any contender. If the Bulls were smart (hahaha) they would let him go out and set the parameters of his market before making an offer. He will not come back with 2/$80 from Daryl Morey or any of the other cap teams.
Hot Take: Philly is a more likely destination for DeMar than Zach.
If they can't get who they really want, Morey will break up his cap space into shorter contracts to preserve the salary slots. There can be no question that he walks away empty handed, so he'll have to spend it on someone. It's not going to be who he really wants so the objective would be to help him get who he really wants, or not hinder it.
This would probably be like the 3rd tier on his decision chart. Plan 3A might be to acquire two shorter, moveable contracts (à la Lin + Asik if we go by history). Plan 3B might be to acquire one large but very short contract that becomes an expiring next year and is maybe even an option or cheap buy-out.
That kind of fucks up DeMar's over 38 era. But if the money is enough I'm sure he will make allowances.
I don't really know the likelihood of any of this since we're all engaging in the conceit that the biggest FA decisions weren't made by agents back in May, if not even earlier. But I think it would make sense.
I could see it. They've got as much as $60M, so perhaps Demar as a 3rd option in the offense would be worth $30M-$35M of it. He'd be an odd fit with Maxey's speed and their shared defensive shortcomings, but it could work.
I really hope that's just someone trying to use the media to get a deal on Zach. I know LaVine's contract is bad and I also know this FO is dumb, but I can't see them offering a first with LaVine and I can't see there being zero market for him with a free first attached.
Wiiliams is a passive, low-motor type player who might have a few productive moments, but compare him to another 2020 draftee - Jaden McDaniels - who by the way was picked at #28 and very motorized, and you're left with buyer's remorse. FIVE years @ $90M????
So it's like 50% more. I'm not a huge fan of Pat, but I think this is a reasonable deal unless there are some red flags about his injury. Which, if there are, it's a terrible deal that the Bulls should, once again, be mocked for. But making the heroic assumption that he's recovering well, I got no problems with signing him to a barely over MLE deal.
On another note, I wonder if a McDaniels brother or Dyson Daniels w/o the PG vision aren't valid comparisons prototypes to imagine what Buzelis is going to look like. If he's Jaden McDaniels level good as a defender, that'd be a pretty good outcome. If he's Jalen or Dyson Daniels with no passing vision, that's.... gonna be pretty bad.
The big "swing factor" is still the shooting. College Jaden McDaniels was a willing and passible shooter and got to the line at least an OK amount. At least last year, Matas was not. He has a Vucevic-like aversion to getting to the line. These things all scare the hell out of me.
This is an insanely reasonable deal. The average NBA salary is $10 million, that's averaging every single player in the league, and obviously it's increasing. $18 million average over 5 years is ridiculously cheap for a proven 3 & D starter. In 3 years this will be either Mikal Bridges (not a bad comp I think) or something nobody really cares about because it's only $18 million.
You have to fuck up (and intentionally fuck up even more) to have $18 million as a problem. It's very tradeable. Skills like Patrick's are coveted.
Lonzo Ball, DNP for the last 2.5 years at a comparable salary, has never been a problem except to the extent the Bulls made it one. It never prevented them from doing anything except that they made it an excuse for one so their owner could profit from carrying one less roster spot.
Nah, as it stands he's probably worth 14-15M right now (assuming this foot thing isn't a chonic issue). So even if he never gets better at all, not a regrettable deal, and decent odds of it being a steal in a year.
I think the 2 teams to keep an eye on for a possible Zach destination are Philly and the Clippers. I.e. the Paul George sweepstakes losers. The reality is neither franchise has many assets to get someone else if Paul says no. The Clippers have 5 picks. Total! Philly has 3 guys under contract and no great picks. If George chooses Orlando both are really screwed. I think Derozan knows this as well. Once that George domino falls I think the Bulls wings may get some resolution.
so I *think* if Paul George does indeed go to the Sixers, it doesn't preclude Clippers from obtaining DeMar via sign-and-trade
Who knows when George will make this decision, but the Clippers would still be way over the cap but under the first apron. So they could sign-and-trade George out creating a huge TPE, then not require to send back the Bulls any salary.
this is only not allowed if taking on DeMar keeps Clippers over the apron. But I think if George leaves, and especially if they wait to bring back Harden, they'd remain under. Also have some flotsam to send back like Tucker and Mann. They don't have many picks to trade the Bulls but despite AK's insistence these seconds do have value in OTHER POTENTIAL trades. Like they could move money - not Zach money, but still - using them. Tons of teams have done this already this offseason!
YFBB, always love the articles, but the footnotes gotta go, too much scrolling and losing your place. I might tolerate them for definitions to fancy words like ‘interregnum’ though
Am under the impression that DDR wants a 2 year deal for a total of $80 million. It isn't as if DDR is the piece that makes the Bulls a title contender. Bulls need more height and athleticism on the front line.
I suppose I didn't put actual parameters, but I also wouldn't go a third season I DeRozan and cap the money at his immediately-tradeable amount (it's around $30M)
I don't consider a 2 year contract "long-term"
I think you’ve hit on the cycle of being a Bulls fan.
We watch them try to contend for a few years, grow frustrated with their inability to get out of the middle, and say they should just blow it up.
Then they do blow it up (usually at least a year after they should have). We watch them lose for a few years, grow frustrated with their inability to draft a generational talent, and say they should just try to win again.
They don’t want to spend the money required to contend when they choose the winning path. And they don’t want to lose the amount of games required to rebuild. So they just float around between the two different kinds of 6th place. They’ll either be the 6th seed in the playoffs or have the 6th pick in the draft.
I want to break the wheel by getting new decision-makers. The cycle will go way too long if AKME is allowed to gain runway by tearing down their own mistake. If they instead keep trying and making mistakes and it all blows up, you get the result of a rebuild AND new management. And more quickly. I don't think a pick in the teens this draft is as valuable.
But even with AKME's seemingly endless mistakes, they still were able to maintain a play-in team (because it actually takes more skill to be good or bad, but not much skill to be mediocre).
Jerry is clearly fine with a mediocre team that's making a lot of money. I don't think AKME continuing to look like idiots while putting out a mediocre product is going to get them fired anytime soon.
you know what's better than a play-in loser? a play-in winner that gets you some home playoff games. Even better if you can go multiple series.
I don't think Reinsdorf is happy with the results of the past two years, and three in a row trying and failing may actually wake him from his nap
So far so good. Right now the Bulls' biggest problem would be Mirotic-ing themselves out of the bottom of the flattened-odds lottery. DeMar, Zach and Vuc on this team threatens that, so we'll get the true measure of AKME soon. Some additional young projects and aggregate-able, tradable contracts would be a nice bonus but the goal should be a shot at the top of next year's draft while watching Coby, Giddey, PW and Ayo grow. I can think of all lot worse ways to spend the next Bulls' season.
Are you good with also watching Terry, Vuc, Phillips, Sanago, Bitim, Craig, Matas and Carter? Cause there is gonna be some heavy minus minutes from that crew.
Is Bitim's contract guaranteed? It appears so. Understand Bitim is a fan favorite but don't understand why and how the Bulls could give Bitim a guaranteed contract. Understand the contract isn't for a material amount of money.
No, it's not guaranteed. It's $350k guaranteed if he makes opening night roster but doesn't become fully guaranteed until January 2025.
I wonder about the after-effects of retinal detachment with him. That's a pretty serious injury for someone who counts 3-point shooting as their core skill.
I'm good. The other choice is a 9th or 10th seed.
Do you really not have “the true measure of AKME”?
I do. They have shown themselves completely out of their depth to pull the Bulls out of the bad situation they created.
I think people want to believe they aren't morons, and surely handicapped by ownership (or society?) wanting them to 'create a good basketball team'. If they are free to create a terrible basketball team, just think of what they can accomplish!
Ha you won't spend any attention on that team at all. Unless it's to groan that Ayo plays too hard and they finish 9th worst. That's the annoying part of making 'losing games' = 'the goal'
I'm struggling to see where DeRozan's market is. No one wants to sign him for more than a couple years and he'd lose face taking less than the $28M of his last deal. Then there's his play style, which does not match up with any contender. If the Bulls were smart (hahaha) they would let him go out and set the parameters of his market before making an offer. He will not come back with 2/$80 from Daryl Morey or any of the other cap teams.
Hot Take: Philly is a more likely destination for DeMar than Zach.
If they can't get who they really want, Morey will break up his cap space into shorter contracts to preserve the salary slots. There can be no question that he walks away empty handed, so he'll have to spend it on someone. It's not going to be who he really wants so the objective would be to help him get who he really wants, or not hinder it.
This would probably be like the 3rd tier on his decision chart. Plan 3A might be to acquire two shorter, moveable contracts (à la Lin + Asik if we go by history). Plan 3B might be to acquire one large but very short contract that becomes an expiring next year and is maybe even an option or cheap buy-out.
That kind of fucks up DeMar's over 38 era. But if the money is enough I'm sure he will make allowances.
I don't really know the likelihood of any of this since we're all engaging in the conceit that the biggest FA decisions weren't made by agents back in May, if not even earlier. But I think it would make sense.
I could see it. They've got as much as $60M, so perhaps Demar as a 3rd option in the offense would be worth $30M-$35M of it. He'd be an odd fit with Maxey's speed and their shared defensive shortcomings, but it could work.
So apparently no one wants Lavine even with a first attached. Terrible extension
I really hope that's just someone trying to use the media to get a deal on Zach. I know LaVine's contract is bad and I also know this FO is dumb, but I can't see them offering a first with LaVine and I can't see there being zero market for him with a free first attached.
it's only fair, the Bulls are using KC (and fan accounts, weirdly) to try and pump up LaVine's value. "he's remained professional!!!"
Wiiliams is a passive, low-motor type player who might have a few productive moments, but compare him to another 2020 draftee - Jaden McDaniels - who by the way was picked at #28 and very motorized, and you're left with buyer's remorse. FIVE years @ $90M????
McDaniels is getting $26M/yr.
Pat is getting $18M/yr.
So it's like 50% more. I'm not a huge fan of Pat, but I think this is a reasonable deal unless there are some red flags about his injury. Which, if there are, it's a terrible deal that the Bulls should, once again, be mocked for. But making the heroic assumption that he's recovering well, I got no problems with signing him to a barely over MLE deal.
On another note, I wonder if a McDaniels brother or Dyson Daniels w/o the PG vision aren't valid comparisons prototypes to imagine what Buzelis is going to look like. If he's Jaden McDaniels level good as a defender, that'd be a pretty good outcome. If he's Jalen or Dyson Daniels with no passing vision, that's.... gonna be pretty bad.
The big "swing factor" is still the shooting. College Jaden McDaniels was a willing and passible shooter and got to the line at least an OK amount. At least last year, Matas was not. He has a Vucevic-like aversion to getting to the line. These things all scare the hell out of me.
This is an insanely reasonable deal. The average NBA salary is $10 million, that's averaging every single player in the league, and obviously it's increasing. $18 million average over 5 years is ridiculously cheap for a proven 3 & D starter. In 3 years this will be either Mikal Bridges (not a bad comp I think) or something nobody really cares about because it's only $18 million.
You have to fuck up (and intentionally fuck up even more) to have $18 million as a problem. It's very tradeable. Skills like Patrick's are coveted.
Lonzo Ball, DNP for the last 2.5 years at a comparable salary, has never been a problem except to the extent the Bulls made it one. It never prevented them from doing anything except that they made it an excuse for one so their owner could profit from carrying one less roster spot.
I haven't seen much consternation over this contract for Pat at all. It's either attacking strawmen or you look at the 'tards on Twxtter
Nah, as it stands he's probably worth 14-15M right now (assuming this foot thing isn't a chonic issue). So even if he never gets better at all, not a regrettable deal, and decent odds of it being a steal in a year.
And for the record, while McDaniels is undoubtedly better right now, his stats are actually lower than Patrick's accross the board.
Sayonara DDR. Williams got a 5 year / $90M extension.
Interesting rumor swirling, if the warriors lose out on Paul they could deal some of their pieces for Lavine. *could*
I can't see Golden State letting Klay go to trade assets for Lavine.
the rumor you're referring to was the Warriors options "from sending out picks for Ingram to potentially acquiring one with LaVine"
so, the Bulls attaching a first to get off of LaVine's money. The Market!
I think the 2 teams to keep an eye on for a possible Zach destination are Philly and the Clippers. I.e. the Paul George sweepstakes losers. The reality is neither franchise has many assets to get someone else if Paul says no. The Clippers have 5 picks. Total! Philly has 3 guys under contract and no great picks. If George chooses Orlando both are really screwed. I think Derozan knows this as well. Once that George domino falls I think the Bulls wings may get some resolution.
PG = loser, so PG sweepstakes loser = winner? PW has PG mental makeup. We need another psycho on our team!
so I *think* if Paul George does indeed go to the Sixers, it doesn't preclude Clippers from obtaining DeMar via sign-and-trade
Who knows when George will make this decision, but the Clippers would still be way over the cap but under the first apron. So they could sign-and-trade George out creating a huge TPE, then not require to send back the Bulls any salary.
this is only not allowed if taking on DeMar keeps Clippers over the apron. But I think if George leaves, and especially if they wait to bring back Harden, they'd remain under. Also have some flotsam to send back like Tucker and Mann. They don't have many picks to trade the Bulls but despite AK's insistence these seconds do have value in OTHER POTENTIAL trades. Like they could move money - not Zach money, but still - using them. Tons of teams have done this already this offseason!
Mann is more than mere floatsam.
fair. I'd be happy with him in the trade return. And no apologies to those who'd worry Mann would be "too good" and screw up their dreams
Clippers just re-signed Harden but I believe they can wait to put pen to paper on that and still be flexible in obtaining DeRozan
Warriors just waived Chris Paul, so no use of him in a LaVine trade (maybe because they don't want LaVine but that seems too crazy to be true!)
YFBB, always love the articles, but the footnotes gotta go, too much scrolling and losing your place. I might tolerate them for definitions to fancy words like ‘interregnum’ though
I went back and forth on this but going into CHAT MODE for Free Agency. STARTING NOW
https://open.substack.com/chat/posts/2ae1928b-d0d6-4f98-819e-a4e01b82c89d