"Well, there’s winning the #1 overall pick next week. And if that doesn’t happen, I have another idea."
The suspense!!
But seriously, I don't know how Bulls fans can watch these playoff games and seriously think that this Bulls team is anywhere near being remotely competitive in a playoff series.
Next year is definitely the year Pat Williams figures out where to go and what to do when he's on a basketball court. It's definitely gonna click in year 5 or 6 or whatever the hell this is.
I'd only be encouraged if he said his foot is still fucked up. But they had a chance to keep him shut down to end the season and he was apparently not hurt, which is a really bad sign that he just has totally lost his explosiveness at age 23
I think the greater issue is PWill never really gave a shit about basketball but he was born into that body and so he played the game. Now that he has enough money for 5 lifetimes he's certainly not motivated to try harder than he did before. I don't think he wants to be on the floor during NBA games.
This is actually where I hold an unpopular opinion. I think Patrick Williams does love basketball. Not saying he has that burning fire that guys like MJ had, but I don't think he loves basketball any less than your average NBA player.
In my opinion, most of his issues are mental. I think what comes across as him looking like he doesn't want to be on the court isn't actually him not wanting to be on the court. I'm not a doctor or a mental health expert or anything, so I have no diagnosis, but it just seems like there's some sort of mental block there that prevents him from processing the game at the speed needed to be successful in the NBA.
Then there's the problem of him being terribly uncoordinated. But again, I think that also stems from something mental too. You watch footage of him in practices or open gyms and the guy's handle looks as good as anybody, but then he just can't dribble in games. And it's not because competition is higher. The dude can't dribble even when no one is guarding him in NBA games.
To me, the only way he becomes a decent NBA player is if he does a ton of work with a sport psychologist. But while most teams probably employ one or have good connections, I'm sure the Bulls and their incredibly cheap owner refuse to invest in one.
You may be onto something with the mental stuff. But I think a guy with his size/strength/leaping ability should be able to rebound well, and consistently, even when his anxiety is flaring up. It's not asking that much as rebounding is basically a function of effort and being engaged in the game. Somehow he's averaged fewer rebounds every year in the league!
Playing in an open gym against mostly non-professionals...yeah it's easy to feel relaxed and look good. When you are being actually defended hard by legit pros, it's a different ballgame.
I honestly just don't think Pat is skilled at basketball outside of spot up 3s. That handle in practice is a mirage. And he is hypothetically athletic....i've rarely seen him use it in real games. There is no reason why he shouldn't catch 2 lobs a game and i think he might have the most missed dunks in the league. Maybe he is still growing into his body but dude is kinda uncoordinated.
I'm sure some of his issues are mental but i feel that like that gets used a lot to explain why players suck when maybe in reality they just suck.
He's definitely uncoordinated. You can tell just by watching him. I think it's a big part of him struggling with dunks and overall finishing around the rim, and also part of why his handle is bad.
And to clarify, I'm not saying the only reason he sucks is because of a mental block. There are plenty of reasons that we could point at as to why he sucks. I was mostly just pushing back on the narrative that he doesn't care about basketball. I just don't think that's true.
The funny thing is that if there's a Patrick Williams on another team, a go-nowhere bunch of losers like the Chicago Bulls would arguably be making a good move by acquiring him (with draft compensation coming to Chicago, of course).
Not going to call my shot here but I wouldn't be surprised if he's included in a summer whirlwind of confusing sign-and-trades. He's toxic, but I feel like Karnisovas can create an even more toxic contract situation.
lowkey he kinda isn't tho. he gets a decent amount of stocks but he gets blown by quite a bit. some of that might have been due to injury but his lateral quickness is pretty mid. He looks like he should be a good defender but in reality, he is barely above average.
Plus Houston already has a better version of him with Tari Eason
Pat is a better shooter but his 3 pt shooting is pretty low volume that its way less impactful than the high level defense, transition finishing and rebounding that Eason provides
Yeah I think Houston has the assets to pick what they want and I'd be surprised if they walked away from the buffet table with "Taurean Prince but with a 4 year contract."
I could be misremembering (and I'm too lazy to check), but I believe his advanced defensive metrics last year were pretty good until his injury, and then they were way worse this year. I do think his foot injury really hurt his athleticism, which is not good for a guy who's only 23.
Well we can look to our past with Cam BIG GAME Payne, who looked as bad as Patrick if not worse (and yet had promising numbers in the same vein as a shooter, and even the same feeling about those numbers that they didn't impact the game the way you think it should have).
He had a bad foot, bounced here, bounced on I think one or two other teams before working his way back.
Obviously he didn't just start a 5 year contract, though.
Kris Dunn comes to mind: I see the same player he was in Chicago.
If Patrick were 28 and a free agent I feel like a few teams would have him in their sights, maybe not as a "call this guy at 1 second after midnight" but probably in their "after we get our Plan A in place, go get this guy too."
The Bulls have repeatedly run into the negative side of rookie contract economics with these players. Gonna say this is a serious downside of a plan built around finding "young players, with experience" because these are the highest risk contracts, not in dollar amounts but in commitments. Kris Dunn, Patrick, Cam Payne, Doug McDermott were all great as no-strings free agents, they were human acid reflux as rookies awaiting an extension.
Thankfully "young players, with experience" is just some bullshit some guy said rather than a serious strategy, and probably won't even be remembered in July.
I think he played the year 15-20lbs heavier than he did in previous years and it showed.
I also think that contrary to popular belief, he's not a particularly great athlete or physical specimen. He's not in any way outstanding for an NBA player, especially at the 4.
Like, he'd have good size for the 3, but he'd turned himself out of being a tweeter. Maybe next year if he drops that weight he'll at least be back to being acceptable on D
Terrible Horrible No Good Very Bad Organization. And I think even that’s selling them short. They’ve fully embraced purgatory. They’re buying furniture and hanging pictures. They’re entirely too comfortable for a group that has accomplished FUCK ALL in their entire time in charge of building this roster. The pieces they were able to acquire never quite gel’d outside of a nice regular season run that eventually yielded to a first round ass kicking. It’s sad to see how far the Bulls have fallen as an organization. If they’re trying then they should be lambasted for their horrendous efforts, but I think it’s easier to digest if one simply assumes they haven’t actually been trying….
Billy Beane is wrong. Moneyball does work. The Florida Marlins proved it 20 years ago when they won with one of the cheapest rosters in MLB. Todd Golden and the Florida Gators proved it this year by winning the NCAAM championship with zero four or five star recruits, due to a heavy focus on analytics.
The reason it doesn't work for Beane is it's not the only ingredient. Had no one else started doing it and had he continued to evolve and improve the system, then the A's would have made it further into the playoffs, and likely won the whole thing.
When he started out, he was ahead of the game, but the ideas weren't fully fleshed out and he didn't know all the things he needed to look for (and I'd argue still doesn't). But then other teams started looking at the same facets and outbid him for the actually valuable players, then yeah... of course he was going to lose.
All that said, AKME doesn't even begin to understand it and even if he did, he isn't smart enough to implement it at all, much less find any advantages over other teams using that strategy.
I have to pat myself on the back for my take when the Kings traded Haliburton.
My opinion was basically “They’ll regret this. They’re trading the wrong PG.”
Meanwhile, AK should probably keep his opinions about any team with Haliburton to himself since he drafted Patrick Williams when Haliburton was available.
Not his fault he needs the players to have experience first! Then he can find the good ones. Trust him it makes sense if you don't think too hard about it.
It's a bit overshadowed by his other moves and non-moves, but Karnisovas is low-key swindled on the moving parts of deals even more than the overpay in picks. Gafford was a legit backup big on sub-minimum-salary 4 year deal when he just randomly included him for a wing that couldn't shoot. That trade looked fucking awful the minute Gafford was paired with a PG that knew how to throw him lobs.
Wendell was on his rookie deal and I can't imagine the trade would have fallen apart with ONLY two 1sts and immediate expiring contracts for Vuc. He included Thad in the sign-and-trade for DeRozan, treating as cap ballast a guy the Raptors were willing to acquire for a top 14 protected pick. He lost a 2nd round pick because he couldn't wait an hour to brag about a free agent signing.
None of these are championship cornerstones (though Gafford has been closer than anyone else on the Bulls; Wendell in his 1st round exits has been too, for that matter), but an almost willful ignorance of knowing the value of your organizational assets. It's not a controversial thing to say that a cheap big man is worth a lot! GarPax somehow left him with 3, which he pissed away, and the team now has zero.
If you're guilty of, I don't know, any 2 of these then you're gonna have a hard time being a decent team without draft lottery luck and/or being a marquee FA destination.
AK is guilty of them all. The Bulls aren't just fucked while he's here. They're fucked for at least 2-3 years after he leaves while the next (hopefully competent) guy digs out from under this mess.
Those are the NBA standings on January 31 2025. The Bulls were 1 game ahead of the Sixers.
At the moment, the Sixers look like they'll get a top 4 pick, and possibly #1, and the Bulls had to reacquire their own pick, which unsurprisingly did not move up at all.
If Karnisovas were managing a Jiffy Loob, he'd be fired for this alone. This is just garbage, man.
Edit: This turned out even funnier than I could have imagined.
"Well, there’s winning the #1 overall pick next week. And if that doesn’t happen, I have another idea."
The suspense!!
But seriously, I don't know how Bulls fans can watch these playoff games and seriously think that this Bulls team is anywhere near being remotely competitive in a playoff series.
Fire Karnisovas, there is no other way.
> Pat Williams: I think I’m about done.
4 more years Zach. 4 more years. Settle in.
Next year is definitely the year Pat Williams figures out where to go and what to do when he's on a basketball court. It's definitely gonna click in year 5 or 6 or whatever the hell this is.
I'd only be encouraged if he said his foot is still fucked up. But they had a chance to keep him shut down to end the season and he was apparently not hurt, which is a really bad sign that he just has totally lost his explosiveness at age 23
I think the greater issue is PWill never really gave a shit about basketball but he was born into that body and so he played the game. Now that he has enough money for 5 lifetimes he's certainly not motivated to try harder than he did before. I don't think he wants to be on the floor during NBA games.
This is actually where I hold an unpopular opinion. I think Patrick Williams does love basketball. Not saying he has that burning fire that guys like MJ had, but I don't think he loves basketball any less than your average NBA player.
In my opinion, most of his issues are mental. I think what comes across as him looking like he doesn't want to be on the court isn't actually him not wanting to be on the court. I'm not a doctor or a mental health expert or anything, so I have no diagnosis, but it just seems like there's some sort of mental block there that prevents him from processing the game at the speed needed to be successful in the NBA.
Then there's the problem of him being terribly uncoordinated. But again, I think that also stems from something mental too. You watch footage of him in practices or open gyms and the guy's handle looks as good as anybody, but then he just can't dribble in games. And it's not because competition is higher. The dude can't dribble even when no one is guarding him in NBA games.
To me, the only way he becomes a decent NBA player is if he does a ton of work with a sport psychologist. But while most teams probably employ one or have good connections, I'm sure the Bulls and their incredibly cheap owner refuse to invest in one.
"What part of the boot you from?"
You may be onto something with the mental stuff. But I think a guy with his size/strength/leaping ability should be able to rebound well, and consistently, even when his anxiety is flaring up. It's not asking that much as rebounding is basically a function of effort and being engaged in the game. Somehow he's averaged fewer rebounds every year in the league!
Playing in an open gym against mostly non-professionals...yeah it's easy to feel relaxed and look good. When you are being actually defended hard by legit pros, it's a different ballgame.
I honestly just don't think Pat is skilled at basketball outside of spot up 3s. That handle in practice is a mirage. And he is hypothetically athletic....i've rarely seen him use it in real games. There is no reason why he shouldn't catch 2 lobs a game and i think he might have the most missed dunks in the league. Maybe he is still growing into his body but dude is kinda uncoordinated.
I'm sure some of his issues are mental but i feel that like that gets used a lot to explain why players suck when maybe in reality they just suck.
He's definitely uncoordinated. You can tell just by watching him. I think it's a big part of him struggling with dunks and overall finishing around the rim, and also part of why his handle is bad.
And to clarify, I'm not saying the only reason he sucks is because of a mental block. There are plenty of reasons that we could point at as to why he sucks. I was mostly just pushing back on the narrative that he doesn't care about basketball. I just don't think that's true.
"But while most teams probably employ one or have good connections, I'm sure the Bulls and their incredibly cheap owner refuse to invest in one."
Jerry's holding out for a Groupon special on a Chicagoland sports psychologist and he'll get everyone in at once.
The funny thing is that if there's a Patrick Williams on another team, a go-nowhere bunch of losers like the Chicago Bulls would arguably be making a good move by acquiring him (with draft compensation coming to Chicago, of course).
Not going to call my shot here but I wouldn't be surprised if he's included in a summer whirlwind of confusing sign-and-trades. He's toxic, but I feel like Karnisovas can create an even more toxic contract situation.
He's a decent defender, I wonder how he would do on a team like Houston where he'd be in a better defensive culture.
lowkey he kinda isn't tho. he gets a decent amount of stocks but he gets blown by quite a bit. some of that might have been due to injury but his lateral quickness is pretty mid. He looks like he should be a good defender but in reality, he is barely above average.
Plus Houston already has a better version of him with Tari Eason
Tari Eason is a better defender by far, but PWill is the better shooter, Houston could have used some shooting.
Pat is a better shooter but his 3 pt shooting is pretty low volume that its way less impactful than the high level defense, transition finishing and rebounding that Eason provides
Yeah I think Houston has the assets to pick what they want and I'd be surprised if they walked away from the buffet table with "Taurean Prince but with a 4 year contract."
I could be misremembering (and I'm too lazy to check), but I believe his advanced defensive metrics last year were pretty good until his injury, and then they were way worse this year. I do think his foot injury really hurt his athleticism, which is not good for a guy who's only 23.
Well we can look to our past with Cam BIG GAME Payne, who looked as bad as Patrick if not worse (and yet had promising numbers in the same vein as a shooter, and even the same feeling about those numbers that they didn't impact the game the way you think it should have).
He had a bad foot, bounced here, bounced on I think one or two other teams before working his way back.
Obviously he didn't just start a 5 year contract, though.
Kris Dunn comes to mind: I see the same player he was in Chicago.
If Patrick were 28 and a free agent I feel like a few teams would have him in their sights, maybe not as a "call this guy at 1 second after midnight" but probably in their "after we get our Plan A in place, go get this guy too."
The Bulls have repeatedly run into the negative side of rookie contract economics with these players. Gonna say this is a serious downside of a plan built around finding "young players, with experience" because these are the highest risk contracts, not in dollar amounts but in commitments. Kris Dunn, Patrick, Cam Payne, Doug McDermott were all great as no-strings free agents, they were human acid reflux as rookies awaiting an extension.
Thankfully "young players, with experience" is just some bullshit some guy said rather than a serious strategy, and probably won't even be remembered in July.
I think he played the year 15-20lbs heavier than he did in previous years and it showed.
I also think that contrary to popular belief, he's not a particularly great athlete or physical specimen. He's not in any way outstanding for an NBA player, especially at the 4.
Like, he'd have good size for the 3, but he'd turned himself out of being a tweeter. Maybe next year if he drops that weight he'll at least be back to being acceptable on D
Terrible Horrible No Good Very Bad Organization. And I think even that’s selling them short. They’ve fully embraced purgatory. They’re buying furniture and hanging pictures. They’re entirely too comfortable for a group that has accomplished FUCK ALL in their entire time in charge of building this roster. The pieces they were able to acquire never quite gel’d outside of a nice regular season run that eventually yielded to a first round ass kicking. It’s sad to see how far the Bulls have fallen as an organization. If they’re trying then they should be lambasted for their horrendous efforts, but I think it’s easier to digest if one simply assumes they haven’t actually been trying….
Billy Beane is wrong. Moneyball does work. The Florida Marlins proved it 20 years ago when they won with one of the cheapest rosters in MLB. Todd Golden and the Florida Gators proved it this year by winning the NCAAM championship with zero four or five star recruits, due to a heavy focus on analytics.
The reason it doesn't work for Beane is it's not the only ingredient. Had no one else started doing it and had he continued to evolve and improve the system, then the A's would have made it further into the playoffs, and likely won the whole thing.
When he started out, he was ahead of the game, but the ideas weren't fully fleshed out and he didn't know all the things he needed to look for (and I'd argue still doesn't). But then other teams started looking at the same facets and outbid him for the actually valuable players, then yeah... of course he was going to lose.
All that said, AKME doesn't even begin to understand it and even if he did, he isn't smart enough to implement it at all, much less find any advantages over other teams using that strategy.
AK likely beaming at the Pacers taking advantage of another injured opponent and completing an improbable comeback
"we beat them in March, very tough" (they didn't have Halliburton)
I have to pat myself on the back for my take when the Kings traded Haliburton.
My opinion was basically “They’ll regret this. They’re trading the wrong PG.”
Meanwhile, AK should probably keep his opinions about any team with Haliburton to himself since he drafted Patrick Williams when Haliburton was available.
Not his fault he needs the players to have experience first! Then he can find the good ones. Trust him it makes sense if you don't think too hard about it.
When AK has drafted two players that weren't even starters in college. Really has an eye out for that experience.
that was the old AK. He also said he regrets 'skipping steps' with acquiring Vuc (but also that trade was really good for them?)
twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom
Hates skipping steps with acquiring Vooch, but loves skipping steps when rebuilding.
No that's 'shrinking the time line', completely different
The one time they didn't draft the kid from Iowa...
It's a bit overshadowed by his other moves and non-moves, but Karnisovas is low-key swindled on the moving parts of deals even more than the overpay in picks. Gafford was a legit backup big on sub-minimum-salary 4 year deal when he just randomly included him for a wing that couldn't shoot. That trade looked fucking awful the minute Gafford was paired with a PG that knew how to throw him lobs.
Wendell was on his rookie deal and I can't imagine the trade would have fallen apart with ONLY two 1sts and immediate expiring contracts for Vuc. He included Thad in the sign-and-trade for DeRozan, treating as cap ballast a guy the Raptors were willing to acquire for a top 14 protected pick. He lost a 2nd round pick because he couldn't wait an hour to brag about a free agent signing.
None of these are championship cornerstones (though Gafford has been closer than anyone else on the Bulls; Wendell in his 1st round exits has been too, for that matter), but an almost willful ignorance of knowing the value of your organizational assets. It's not a controversial thing to say that a cheap big man is worth a lot! GarPax somehow left him with 3, which he pissed away, and the team now has zero.
Poor player development
Poor roster construction
Poor pro scouting
Poor college scouting
Poor asset valuation
Poor resource allocation
If you're guilty of, I don't know, any 2 of these then you're gonna have a hard time being a decent team without draft lottery luck and/or being a marquee FA destination.
AK is guilty of them all. The Bulls aren't just fucked while he's here. They're fucked for at least 2-3 years after he leaves while the next (hopefully competent) guy digs out from under this mess.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/?month=1&day=31&year=2025
Those are the NBA standings on January 31 2025. The Bulls were 1 game ahead of the Sixers.
At the moment, the Sixers look like they'll get a top 4 pick, and possibly #1, and the Bulls had to reacquire their own pick, which unsurprisingly did not move up at all.
If Karnisovas were managing a Jiffy Loob, he'd be fired for this alone. This is just garbage, man.
Edit: This turned out even funnier than I could have imagined.
Where were the Mavs on January 31st?
Ninth in the west. They were 5th on January 1st.
LOL, the Bulls lose the coin flip and the #1 pick. But at least they got a bunch of meaningless wins in March!
AK: "Without tanking we were a coin flip away from Cooper Flagg"
Morally, the Bulls won the #1 pick.
Peace with honor
Hang the moral victories banner!
The conspiracy theories about the NBA forcing Dallas to send Luka to LA in exchange for the first pick are gonna be crazy!
Gonna?