Can we talk about that DDR iso to end regulation? That has to be the worst play call out of a timeout I’ve ever seen. Hold the ball for 16 seconds and then jack a long 2 over a taller defender was Billy’s play? I think Billy belongs in the class of coaches who don’t really impact winning or losing that much, but that was really awful.
My favorite part was watching Coby walk to the far corner with his head hung low as DeMar dribbled away on that final play. If Coby keeps this up, he's quickly going to join AC in the I-hope-he-gets-traded-because-he's-too-good-for-this-team camp.
I don't think it was that big of a deal. You want to get a decent attempt, and DeRozan is your best option for that still, but most importantly not turn the ball over. Every team runs iso at the end of games.
the problem with that particular version was DeRozan left time on the clock, and missed
Try to get a switch? You can still run a play without passing the ball. You might get double teamed, and maybe that's a turnover, but it's better than iso'ing against a tall defender if you know you're just going to get up a jump shot.
Man, I think this is a first but I don't quite agree with you here lol. More that I dont think Billy really designed a play as much as he asked Derozan to take the ball and take the last possession. I'm sure dudes were positioned by design and there was direction given to where to attack from etc, but I guess this isn't high school? I'm not expecting them to run the annexation of Puerto Rico or whatever lol.
Man, Zach is hard to figure. He clearly has some elite two-guard skills, which is valuable. It's also clear he doesn't really know how to put them to use to the team's best advantage. I've been advocating trade Zach and re-tool starting with the team on the floor for most of December. Not great, but young players can develop and you upgrade later. But it also implies re-signing DDR and counting on Vuc and Caruso -- all of whom are older or injury-prone. So not REALLY that great of a re-tool starting point.
That said, there is something to be said for trading DDR and Caruso for something more significant than Zach might be able to get you -- ideally a 3-D big 4 (Jabari Smith-type!). Slot PW over to the small forward spot and give him more opportunities while riding the Coby wave. Make Zach play within the flow and no-go iso. And see where that lands. Again, not an ideal re-tool starting point, but maybe better than the trade-Zach alternatives.
I don't really care much about trying to figure out how/why AKME will do the wrong thing. I still hold out some hope that they'll make the most of the current situation this trade deadline, have a second bullet to fire soon after via a disgruntled star trade, and we'll end up in a decent spot somehow. It IS possible in my opinion, so until I see them fail at it I'll hold out hope things could go that route.
He's a terrible 4 next to Vuc, which is what we are suck with. As bad an interior defense 4 as Demar. Would make a nice 3, especially with a dynamic scoring backcourt.
his defense is very good already, and wouldn't translate against quicker players. I don't think he's terrible next to Vuc as much as Vuc will make anyone look terrible next to him.
I think PW might be one their most desired and expendable trade chips. Sixers, Pacers, Hawks, Pels all need length, perimeter D and 3p shooting. He isn't doing a dang thing for the Bulls - almost any tall guy with a pulse could contribute 11 PER and 2.5 game scores. But his narrow skillset could help teams with more offensive juice. If the Bulls could get a first rounder in the 15-20 range, it would be a coup.
If you look at Philly's cap next year, they have Embiid, Reed, Springer... and then nothing but Bird Rights. For their younger players, Maxey has a tiny cap hold, which means they can go sign or acquire a major FA or maybe two in July and then sign him to an extension afterward. It's interesting to imagine what Morey will do, since he's always been incredibly creative with those kinds of things.
Patrick Williams would fuck that up because he was drafted so high, so his qualifying offer is $12 million and his "free agent amount" (basically a cap hold for players on rookie contracts) is close to $30 million. It counts as 300% of his previous salary, if memory serves, or some similar multiple.
Zach's first game back, they sent someone (offscreen, but probably KC) to interview him one-on-one and chopped up the interview into clips they played throughout the game. All he did was mumble platitudes (which is all anyone should have expected).
I thought it was funny, because the broadcast team was breaking away from the game in progress to show these PR-manicured clips of Zach giving revealing insights like "I like Coby" and "I just want to win games." Then I realized what it reminded me of: like an actor doing the humility bit and eating shit for the public after emerging from a scandal. Same blueprint, and moreover explains the intention here. That made me think this wasn't entirely an Org thing: I suspect Klutch was involved in hiring a crisis PR firm to mitigate the fact that their client is not just hugely unpopular but after this sudden team turnaround is now seen as the opposite of a "winning" (and that means "good") player. Being unpopular doesn't matter, James Harden has alienated the entire population of the 1st, 4th and 6th largest cities in the United States in about 3 years and was still welcomed when he took aim at #2. But being seen as a loser — Reggie Theus with a better haircut — is definitely poison to his brand.
at least with the LaVine puffery, though pointless (Woj saying "impact winning" is equally pointless, no need to counter it) it's with the objective of getting him traded
I don't know who it serves to continuously mention Vuc's "connecting passes"
Thanks for an excuse to celebrate Reggie Theus. a) I really like Reggie Theus and his haircuts because I'm an old. b) Reggie played in 4 playoff series, including, in 1981, leading the Bulls to a 2-0 series victory over the hated Knicks as a 23 year old putting up 23/4/8 in those games. c) Reggie coached at the major college level, taking New Mexico State to the NCAA tournament, and for a season and a half in the pros for Sacramento, with middling results. d) Reggie and Zach are remarkably similar players, but Reggie was so much smarter and put up exceptional assist numbers to make his teammates better. e) I chuckle to think of Zach as a coach at any level, coming into the arena with one brown shoe and one black, absentmindedly taking a seat on the other team's bench, accidently calling a timeout during the opening tip. . .
Theus was smarter, no doubt, but was one of the most supremely self-absorbed players in the game and the offensive engine for an unending series of mediocre teams.
If that's not familiar enough, perhaps this is lol —
Wow, that article is absolutely amazing. Theus was so stubborn he'd rather be benched than even try to play defense (as opposed to Zach, who tries but can't focus and lacks the processing speed to execute team defense). We think the current Bulls owners and leadership is a sh!tshow, but here we have a 7-owner committee slowing decisions and ordering the coach to play Theus and the GM and coach just casually complain about it to SI. And they are just casually cycling through all-time coaches and execs like Jerry Sloan, Rod Thorn and Paul Westhead. Mind blown.
We need emoji reactions here because I lol'd irl when I read this. I had the same reaction, it was like reading about a different sport in different place altogether. A former MVP has issued 3 trade demands in 4 years and we really don't know the full details behind any except the last one. You could probably write a stage play about what happened in Brooklyn between Irving, Durant and Harden but we'll never see it because nobody really knows outside of vague and mysterious statements. Here we have Sports Illustrated covering a situation where a star player gets DNP'd for two weeks straight, a coach admits the owner set his line-ups and future cokehead Mitchell Wiggins illuminates the story with his oddly bright self-confidence.
If anyone needs a good laugh, head on over to the Bulls subreddit. I had actually kind of enjoyed reading through some of the posts over there while Zach and Vooch were out. It seemed like people were finally starting to realize the glaring issues with this team.
Not anymore! Everyone is back on the Zach bandwagon and they genuinely believe this team could challenge for a top 6 seed in the East. I just don't understand how people can function when they're so susceptible to recency bias like that.
Like two months ago they were pissed that Zach would ask for a trade and wear an LA hat after a game, and now they're saying the Bulls absolutely should not trade him and should instead trade DeMar. I'm not saying this front office shouldn't take calls on DeMar because I absolutely believe they should, but that doesn't mean Zach should be kept...
Gee golly they are dumb. I went back and forth with a guy last year who insisted Coby White was the Bulls best defender. After pulling some stats into the discussion to show that wasn't true, I slapped my forehead and thought "What the hell am I doing?"
It baffles me that people celebrate Zach now just because he's looking a bit more engaged defensively. Zach being paid a mind-blowing sum of money is not enough for him to give a shit defensively or to buy into the system, but Zach's ego slowly evaporating while watching the team play better without him, forced him to give a shit and buy in on his return, and this is supposedly something to be celebrated? I just can't get behind that.
Adam constantly talking about Zach playing defense like it was some sort of miracle was vomit inducing. Instead Adam and Stacey should have been asking where that engagement was before the return.
Zach had a big game although he had 2 stupid turnovers,1 offensive foul and - 1 silly defensive foul leading to a 3 point play...ALL LATE.
He is capable of winning games and as I predicted he’s trying to change his offense and pass instead of dribble but he’s an old dog and new tricks are hard to master. Vuc was better than his usual on offense and the same horrible defender. Billy remains a stupid coach and almost blew the game for playing the wrong people and again staying away from Coby until he almost lost the game. He didn’t compute that DeMars defender was a lanky 6’10” guy with very active arms, quick feet and the sense to stay down on Demars pump fakes. He also didn’t go back to Andre who had a bad game and the Houston center got 20 off Vuc in the 2nd half.
Williams and Ayo’s time were limited do to Zach’s presence and he came thru yesterday but that’s only 1 game. History tells he he won’t play like that very often and his lazy,lousy defense and poor shot selection with TO’s will rule the day.
Zach’s value is too low to trade this year. We need to bite the bullet and trade Debo, since he either walks or we again massively overpay, this time for a 35 yr old geezer. Would Orlando do a deal around Mr Injury Isaac? Atlanta around under-achieving Hunter? Knicks for Fournier/Grimes? Portland to get off of Grant’s contract? Kings for Barnes/Huerter? Meh
Can we talk about that DDR iso to end regulation? That has to be the worst play call out of a timeout I’ve ever seen. Hold the ball for 16 seconds and then jack a long 2 over a taller defender was Billy’s play? I think Billy belongs in the class of coaches who don’t really impact winning or losing that much, but that was really awful.
My favorite part was watching Coby walk to the far corner with his head hung low as DeMar dribbled away on that final play. If Coby keeps this up, he's quickly going to join AC in the I-hope-he-gets-traded-because-he's-too-good-for-this-team camp.
I don't think it was that big of a deal. You want to get a decent attempt, and DeRozan is your best option for that still, but most importantly not turn the ball over. Every team runs iso at the end of games.
the problem with that particular version was DeRozan left time on the clock, and missed
Try to get a switch? You can still run a play without passing the ball. You might get double teamed, and maybe that's a turnover, but it's better than iso'ing against a tall defender if you know you're just going to get up a jump shot.
Man, I think this is a first but I don't quite agree with you here lol. More that I dont think Billy really designed a play as much as he asked Derozan to take the ball and take the last possession. I'm sure dudes were positioned by design and there was direction given to where to attack from etc, but I guess this isn't high school? I'm not expecting them to run the annexation of Puerto Rico or whatever lol.
More of a DeMar skill issue than a Donovan coaching issue I think
Man, Zach is hard to figure. He clearly has some elite two-guard skills, which is valuable. It's also clear he doesn't really know how to put them to use to the team's best advantage. I've been advocating trade Zach and re-tool starting with the team on the floor for most of December. Not great, but young players can develop and you upgrade later. But it also implies re-signing DDR and counting on Vuc and Caruso -- all of whom are older or injury-prone. So not REALLY that great of a re-tool starting point.
That said, there is something to be said for trading DDR and Caruso for something more significant than Zach might be able to get you -- ideally a 3-D big 4 (Jabari Smith-type!). Slot PW over to the small forward spot and give him more opportunities while riding the Coby wave. Make Zach play within the flow and no-go iso. And see where that lands. Again, not an ideal re-tool starting point, but maybe better than the trade-Zach alternatives.
I don't really care much about trying to figure out how/why AKME will do the wrong thing. I still hold out some hope that they'll make the most of the current situation this trade deadline, have a second bullet to fire soon after via a disgruntled star trade, and we'll end up in a decent spot somehow. It IS possible in my opinion, so until I see them fail at it I'll hold out hope things could go that route.
PW is the "3-D big 4" (he's not a SF at all in my opinion), and does not deserve more opportunities. unless it's a rebuild
He's a terrible 4 next to Vuc, which is what we are suck with. As bad an interior defense 4 as Demar. Would make a nice 3, especially with a dynamic scoring backcourt.
his defense is very good already, and wouldn't translate against quicker players. I don't think he's terrible next to Vuc as much as Vuc will make anyone look terrible next to him.
I think PW might be one their most desired and expendable trade chips. Sixers, Pacers, Hawks, Pels all need length, perimeter D and 3p shooting. He isn't doing a dang thing for the Bulls - almost any tall guy with a pulse could contribute 11 PER and 2.5 game scores. But his narrow skillset could help teams with more offensive juice. If the Bulls could get a first rounder in the 15-20 range, it would be a coup.
If you look at Philly's cap next year, they have Embiid, Reed, Springer... and then nothing but Bird Rights. For their younger players, Maxey has a tiny cap hold, which means they can go sign or acquire a major FA or maybe two in July and then sign him to an extension afterward. It's interesting to imagine what Morey will do, since he's always been incredibly creative with those kinds of things.
Patrick Williams would fuck that up because he was drafted so high, so his qualifying offer is $12 million and his "free agent amount" (basically a cap hold for players on rookie contracts) is close to $30 million. It counts as 300% of his previous salary, if memory serves, or some similar multiple.
Zach's first game back, they sent someone (offscreen, but probably KC) to interview him one-on-one and chopped up the interview into clips they played throughout the game. All he did was mumble platitudes (which is all anyone should have expected).
I thought it was funny, because the broadcast team was breaking away from the game in progress to show these PR-manicured clips of Zach giving revealing insights like "I like Coby" and "I just want to win games." Then I realized what it reminded me of: like an actor doing the humility bit and eating shit for the public after emerging from a scandal. Same blueprint, and moreover explains the intention here. That made me think this wasn't entirely an Org thing: I suspect Klutch was involved in hiring a crisis PR firm to mitigate the fact that their client is not just hugely unpopular but after this sudden team turnaround is now seen as the opposite of a "winning" (and that means "good") player. Being unpopular doesn't matter, James Harden has alienated the entire population of the 1st, 4th and 6th largest cities in the United States in about 3 years and was still welcomed when he took aim at #2. But being seen as a loser — Reggie Theus with a better haircut — is definitely poison to his brand.
Zach played terribly down the stretch in this game and the Mid 3 (© 2023 Captain Kirk's Tooth Gap Enterprises) was the chief cause of blowing a 16 point lead in 8 minutes. It's the same shit we saw earlier this year, which will win them 1 of 3 games going forward. But there was a wave of "WOW ZACH REALLY IS HELPING US TO WIN GAMES" after the game which doesn't seem entirely desperate (though it is desperate, we're a desperate fanbase) and a bit... off. Synthetic. It's so at odds with the reality of the game, which was a guy with great stats that made the wrong play repeatedly in the clutch and participated in the patented "3 Man Handoff" play 24 feet out, where 3 guys just pointless toss the ball between each other and then try some horrible shot with 3 seconds on the clock. It was the same bad basketball that made them unwatchable even when they won earlier this year (and they did sometimes win a game).
at least with the LaVine puffery, though pointless (Woj saying "impact winning" is equally pointless, no need to counter it) it's with the objective of getting him traded
I don't know who it serves to continuously mention Vuc's "connecting passes"
Thanks for an excuse to celebrate Reggie Theus. a) I really like Reggie Theus and his haircuts because I'm an old. b) Reggie played in 4 playoff series, including, in 1981, leading the Bulls to a 2-0 series victory over the hated Knicks as a 23 year old putting up 23/4/8 in those games. c) Reggie coached at the major college level, taking New Mexico State to the NCAA tournament, and for a season and a half in the pros for Sacramento, with middling results. d) Reggie and Zach are remarkably similar players, but Reggie was so much smarter and put up exceptional assist numbers to make his teammates better. e) I chuckle to think of Zach as a coach at any level, coming into the arena with one brown shoe and one black, absentmindedly taking a seat on the other team's bench, accidently calling a timeout during the opening tip. . .
Theus was smarter, no doubt, but was one of the most supremely self-absorbed players in the game and the offensive engine for an unending series of mediocre teams.
If that's not familiar enough, perhaps this is lol —
https://vault.si.com/vault/1984/01/09/storm-cloud-over-a-sitting-bull
Wow, that article is absolutely amazing. Theus was so stubborn he'd rather be benched than even try to play defense (as opposed to Zach, who tries but can't focus and lacks the processing speed to execute team defense). We think the current Bulls owners and leadership is a sh!tshow, but here we have a 7-owner committee slowing decisions and ordering the coach to play Theus and the GM and coach just casually complain about it to SI. And they are just casually cycling through all-time coaches and execs like Jerry Sloan, Rod Thorn and Paul Westhead. Mind blown.
We need emoji reactions here because I lol'd irl when I read this. I had the same reaction, it was like reading about a different sport in different place altogether. A former MVP has issued 3 trade demands in 4 years and we really don't know the full details behind any except the last one. You could probably write a stage play about what happened in Brooklyn between Irving, Durant and Harden but we'll never see it because nobody really knows outside of vague and mysterious statements. Here we have Sports Illustrated covering a situation where a star player gets DNP'd for two weeks straight, a coach admits the owner set his line-ups and future cokehead Mitchell Wiggins illuminates the story with his oddly bright self-confidence.
If anyone needs a good laugh, head on over to the Bulls subreddit. I had actually kind of enjoyed reading through some of the posts over there while Zach and Vooch were out. It seemed like people were finally starting to realize the glaring issues with this team.
Not anymore! Everyone is back on the Zach bandwagon and they genuinely believe this team could challenge for a top 6 seed in the East. I just don't understand how people can function when they're so susceptible to recency bias like that.
Like two months ago they were pissed that Zach would ask for a trade and wear an LA hat after a game, and now they're saying the Bulls absolutely should not trade him and should instead trade DeMar. I'm not saying this front office shouldn't take calls on DeMar because I absolutely believe they should, but that doesn't mean Zach should be kept...
Gee golly they are dumb. I went back and forth with a guy last year who insisted Coby White was the Bulls best defender. After pulling some stats into the discussion to show that wasn't true, I slapped my forehead and thought "What the hell am I doing?"
It baffles me that people celebrate Zach now just because he's looking a bit more engaged defensively. Zach being paid a mind-blowing sum of money is not enough for him to give a shit defensively or to buy into the system, but Zach's ego slowly evaporating while watching the team play better without him, forced him to give a shit and buy in on his return, and this is supposedly something to be celebrated? I just can't get behind that.
Adam constantly talking about Zach playing defense like it was some sort of miracle was vomit inducing. Instead Adam and Stacey should have been asking where that engagement was before the return.
Trade everybody but Coby.
Life comes at you pretty fast.
Zach had a big game although he had 2 stupid turnovers,1 offensive foul and - 1 silly defensive foul leading to a 3 point play...ALL LATE.
He is capable of winning games and as I predicted he’s trying to change his offense and pass instead of dribble but he’s an old dog and new tricks are hard to master. Vuc was better than his usual on offense and the same horrible defender. Billy remains a stupid coach and almost blew the game for playing the wrong people and again staying away from Coby until he almost lost the game. He didn’t compute that DeMars defender was a lanky 6’10” guy with very active arms, quick feet and the sense to stay down on Demars pump fakes. He also didn’t go back to Andre who had a bad game and the Houston center got 20 off Vuc in the 2nd half.
Williams and Ayo’s time were limited do to Zach’s presence and he came thru yesterday but that’s only 1 game. History tells he he won’t play like that very often and his lazy,lousy defense and poor shot selection with TO’s will rule the day.
Zach’s value is too low to trade this year. We need to bite the bullet and trade Debo, since he either walks or we again massively overpay, this time for a 35 yr old geezer. Would Orlando do a deal around Mr Injury Isaac? Atlanta around under-achieving Hunter? Knicks for Fournier/Grimes? Portland to get off of Grant’s contract? Kings for Barnes/Huerter? Meh