their schedule isnt getting easier. The Blazers and Heat are actually good this year so I expect losses there. I could see them losing to the Pelicans too even though they're terrible. I know Coby is out but team overall is regressing to the mean especially defensively. They're still better than some of us expected but i'm still in the 39-40 win range like i was thinking.
As far as an AD trade, I don't trust he will ever be consistently healthy again. He is a very old, ran-thru 32 and injuries don't get better with age. That being said, sure I'd trade for him, why the fuck not...not like we're doing shit anyway. I'd just limit it to 1 pick, def wouldn't throw 2. Coby/PDub/Terry or Julian and 1 FRP
Why trade Josh Giddey for Anthony Davis? So you can blast the Bulls for having an aging, injured player on a bad contract who doesn't fit their timeline.
The AD injury concerns make this all more of a thought exercise for me, as every time a different intriguing or clever permutation of a deal is raised, it just comes back to frailty. The best landing spots for AD would be teams who are either desperate, want him but could be competitive with him out for long stretches, or need to offload their own semi-problematic big stars/contracts. The Bulls fit none of those categories (well maybe they should be more desperate, but AKME just aren't).
I'd also wonder what Dallas would be looking for in an AD deal. Not sure what an expiring Coby does for them strategically (he'd have more value to us if we thought we might make a run in April/May), as they would probably prefer to tank this year? Why not just sign or S&T for Coby next offseason if you really want him? And I'm not sure who'd thrust Giddey on that fan base, a player who could be perceived as a poor man's Luka (rubbing salt in that wound) and an impediment to running everything through Flagg.
I also seem to be in the minority in thinking Giddey and AD could absolutely coexist on the Bulls. I think Giddey can thrive in PnR's now that he's shooting better from deep (we've seen some great actions work with slow-footed Vuc). Lobs to AD would be fun. I do think AD's presence would threaten the ultra-pass-happy flow we've got going, but that's not a sustainable playoff modality in today's NBA.
But there i go again with the thought exercise because the chance that the Bulls are playing in meaningful playoff games this this year is probably the same whether AD's in street clothes on the Mavs' bench or our bench.
Interesting how perceptions have changed over the last few months. Over the summer we were all saying we needed to take a big swing at a flawed star, to have a puncher's chance at being competitive.
Now we have a real opportunity to get a player who is probably top 50 all time, and we are all thumbs down on it because it might not work out.
I'm not disagreeing with your logic. I'd rather pay Duren $40 million next year than Davis $58. But I think you are right that we are not desperate any more.
Giddey probably helps Cooper Flagg about as well as anybody the Mavs could expect in a return for Davis.
I like our young Bulls but the opportunity to resemble a winning modern basketball team is enticing.
Maybe it would be fun if we tasked AD with coaching up Essengue so Noah can play when Davis is injured and the announcers can analyze his reactions from the bench ("AD didn't like that switch!"), which would create more entertainment value out of our $58m player who doesn't play much.
The only way I'd pull the trigger on an AD deal if I were the Bulls is at a bargain basement price. Something like Vooch, PWill, Carter (or whoever), and the Portland 1st for AD and Naji Marshall. This wouldn't probably be the best deal the Mavs could get, but maybe AD forces his way to Chicago (which is at least plausible) so they take what they can get.
The Giddey for AD idea is an interesting, if unlikely, twist. I'd prefer it to a Coby/Vooch-based deal, but I don't see AK wanting to turn his "I toldya so" golden boy into a walking injury time-bomb.
If the Bulls had some kind of a real plan, I’d be against trading for Davis.
But considering the fact that AK’s whole plan is just “maybe if we just wait long enough, this team will become really good”, I’m actually ok with trading for Davis. At least he’s an actual established star when healthy. And I miss this team having a big name player who can play defense.
Here’s the catch though…you absolutely cannot make this trade if the asking price is huge. You don’t want history to remember you as the team who bailed out the Mavericks even a little bit. So if the asking price is just one first round pick and a couple of players with no real future here, fine. Anything more than that, it would be a no from me.
I’m guessing this won’t happen. Sure, this front office has an established connection with Klutch and a fixation with filling seats, so it COULD happen. But I think the risk of things flaming out would be too high for a guy like AK who’s desperate to keep his incompetence a secret from his boss.
Karnisovas's current strategy is to use upcoming space (up to $70 million) to sign free agents. Trading for Davis would surely take us on a different course.
The cap space keeps getting brought up, but no one’s talking about the fact that there’s a very real chance AK is just going to use that space to retain the pending free agents already on this team (Coby, Vuc, Ayo).
Ok let's talk about it. I think we could bring Ayo back with the room, and Vuc with the BAE, so they wouldn't use cap space. We'll see how Coby does. If we want to re-sign him, then we will want to retain his rights, which would require a $24m hold.
So I think we could resign all those 3 guys and still have $50m cap space still available. I'd say we need to get a center with that, and see what's left over. I like Huerter. He's probably an MLE level guy, $15m or so. If we could get a good center for $35m or less and resign Huerter, I'd be happy.
The problem with cap space is it does not seem to be as useful as it used to be. Stars want to sign extensions with current Team for more money. So few stars hit free agency.
Well that has been true the last couple years but this year there are many more good RFAs who didn't sign extensions, and many more teams that will have cap space available to make offers. So I think we should expect more movement this offseason.
Just looking at centers, I don't think Kessler will end up back in Utah and I doubt Mark Williams will stay with Phoenix. OKC can't afford Hartenstein, he is almost certain to be gone.
Sure Bulls are maybe not the dream destination for most players, but we are set up to offer more money than most teams, and as you say, players like to go where they can get the most money.
I can't think of a worse case scenario than giddey averaging a triple double in Dallas while Davis sits on his injured ass at home for the rest of who knows how long. sure ol' art gets fired but so what, what are the odds anyone better replaces him. and now we're back to watching a highly paid coby, and vuc, and little else
I'd put the odds someone better than AK would replace him extremely high. Like 95%. Meaningfully better is less optimistic but I truly think AK is superlatively unsuited for the job.
Bulls have no star power to win playoff basketball so they have to at least consider trading for AD. But his injury history means they shouldn't give up too much future picks for him.
Best case AD helps Bulls win a playoff series and helps attract a younger star to come to Chicago to join him and Giddy. Hard to believe but possible.
Worst case is he is hurt and they lose opening round playoffs again. No change to where headed now I think.
Right price it's at least giving Bulls a chance at building Team with 2 way star.
Would be a horrible trade. Davis is getting paid $54 million this season, $58 million next season and $62 million in 27/28 all guaranteed. Davis is already 32 years old and hurt often. Better to keep the gunpowder dry.
The Bulls have a chance to get by FAR their best player since Jimmy Butler. How is this an argument?
“Oh no he’s old.” Worst case scenario they’re paying him Rudy Gobert money to be… Rudy Gobert. Tim Duncan was on the all-NBA defensive team until he was 40. If you thought the DeRozan and Vucevic trades were good ideas at the time, please PLEASE miss me with this BS about AD. This team is a play-in exit at best currently. AD would actually be a meaningful step towards a playoff series victory, something they haven’t done since… Pau Gasol?
If you think Giddey is actually good (he’s not) this becomes even more of a no-brainer to pair him up with AD. Do Bulls fan just want a mediocre team to root for??? Do we suddenly believe in AKME’s plan of not doing anything because of a 5-0 start in OCTOBER???
1. It's not just that he's injury prone, he's also so expensive that paying him to play 50 games insures that you'll have 30 games of some guy who isn't any good playing big minutes.
2. He showed up fat and out of shape and promptly got hurt. He's lazy and content, and at a price you can't afford to have guys be lazy and content.
3. The track record of once super athletic bigs aging gracefully is pretty small. Usually, they put on weight, break down and age prematurely, which is exactly what AD is doing.
4. Despite his individual accomplishments, his teams outside of the LeBron Lakers have always been downright disappointing. How many guys are all-pros and can't drag their team to the playoffs? Not many. But AD is one of them. Even the Lakers were sort of expected to be more competitive beyond that one year they won.
5. He makes demands about how he should play (only the 4, not the 5) that are borderline delusional at this point.
I simply wouldn't trade for this guy unless I were giving up basically nothing to do so. Makes no sense.
Coby for Conley and Beringer. Resign but don’t overpay Ayo, Huerter, and Collins. Try for Austin Reeves, and/or draft a shooting guard. The hard part is dumping PW’s contract, he is such a bum.
I feel like I keep seeing people mention the Bulls should go after Reaves, but I don't see the appeal. He's basically a better Coby White. That's obviously a good player, but I don't see how that works with Giddey. You can't have two starting guards who are both bad defenders and have legitimate success in the playoffs.
their schedule isnt getting easier. The Blazers and Heat are actually good this year so I expect losses there. I could see them losing to the Pelicans too even though they're terrible. I know Coby is out but team overall is regressing to the mean especially defensively. They're still better than some of us expected but i'm still in the 39-40 win range like i was thinking.
As far as an AD trade, I don't trust he will ever be consistently healthy again. He is a very old, ran-thru 32 and injuries don't get better with age. That being said, sure I'd trade for him, why the fuck not...not like we're doing shit anyway. I'd just limit it to 1 pick, def wouldn't throw 2. Coby/PDub/Terry or Julian and 1 FRP
Blazers game would be a strategic loss for us, as it would help us get their 1st round pick this year.
Why trade Josh Giddey for Anthony Davis? So you can blast the Bulls for having an aging, injured player on a bad contract who doesn't fit their timeline.
I'd give them credit for having a timeline at all
You haven't been paying attention. We have a timeline, it's "open".
actually, the timeline begins in march ^^
The AD injury concerns make this all more of a thought exercise for me, as every time a different intriguing or clever permutation of a deal is raised, it just comes back to frailty. The best landing spots for AD would be teams who are either desperate, want him but could be competitive with him out for long stretches, or need to offload their own semi-problematic big stars/contracts. The Bulls fit none of those categories (well maybe they should be more desperate, but AKME just aren't).
I'd also wonder what Dallas would be looking for in an AD deal. Not sure what an expiring Coby does for them strategically (he'd have more value to us if we thought we might make a run in April/May), as they would probably prefer to tank this year? Why not just sign or S&T for Coby next offseason if you really want him? And I'm not sure who'd thrust Giddey on that fan base, a player who could be perceived as a poor man's Luka (rubbing salt in that wound) and an impediment to running everything through Flagg.
I also seem to be in the minority in thinking Giddey and AD could absolutely coexist on the Bulls. I think Giddey can thrive in PnR's now that he's shooting better from deep (we've seen some great actions work with slow-footed Vuc). Lobs to AD would be fun. I do think AD's presence would threaten the ultra-pass-happy flow we've got going, but that's not a sustainable playoff modality in today's NBA.
But there i go again with the thought exercise because the chance that the Bulls are playing in meaningful playoff games this this year is probably the same whether AD's in street clothes on the Mavs' bench or our bench.
Interesting how perceptions have changed over the last few months. Over the summer we were all saying we needed to take a big swing at a flawed star, to have a puncher's chance at being competitive.
Now we have a real opportunity to get a player who is probably top 50 all time, and we are all thumbs down on it because it might not work out.
I'm not disagreeing with your logic. I'd rather pay Duren $40 million next year than Davis $58. But I think you are right that we are not desperate any more.
Giddey probably helps Cooper Flagg about as well as anybody the Mavs could expect in a return for Davis.
I like our young Bulls but the opportunity to resemble a winning modern basketball team is enticing.
Maybe it would be fun if we tasked AD with coaching up Essengue so Noah can play when Davis is injured and the announcers can analyze his reactions from the bench ("AD didn't like that switch!"), which would create more entertainment value out of our $58m player who doesn't play much.
The only way I'd pull the trigger on an AD deal if I were the Bulls is at a bargain basement price. Something like Vooch, PWill, Carter (or whoever), and the Portland 1st for AD and Naji Marshall. This wouldn't probably be the best deal the Mavs could get, but maybe AD forces his way to Chicago (which is at least plausible) so they take what they can get.
The Giddey for AD idea is an interesting, if unlikely, twist. I'd prefer it to a Coby/Vooch-based deal, but I don't see AK wanting to turn his "I toldya so" golden boy into a walking injury time-bomb.
If the Bulls had some kind of a real plan, I’d be against trading for Davis.
But considering the fact that AK’s whole plan is just “maybe if we just wait long enough, this team will become really good”, I’m actually ok with trading for Davis. At least he’s an actual established star when healthy. And I miss this team having a big name player who can play defense.
Here’s the catch though…you absolutely cannot make this trade if the asking price is huge. You don’t want history to remember you as the team who bailed out the Mavericks even a little bit. So if the asking price is just one first round pick and a couple of players with no real future here, fine. Anything more than that, it would be a no from me.
I’m guessing this won’t happen. Sure, this front office has an established connection with Klutch and a fixation with filling seats, so it COULD happen. But I think the risk of things flaming out would be too high for a guy like AK who’s desperate to keep his incompetence a secret from his boss.
Karnisovas's current strategy is to use upcoming space (up to $70 million) to sign free agents. Trading for Davis would surely take us on a different course.
The cap space keeps getting brought up, but no one’s talking about the fact that there’s a very real chance AK is just going to use that space to retain the pending free agents already on this team (Coby, Vuc, Ayo).
Ok let's talk about it. I think we could bring Ayo back with the room, and Vuc with the BAE, so they wouldn't use cap space. We'll see how Coby does. If we want to re-sign him, then we will want to retain his rights, which would require a $24m hold.
So I think we could resign all those 3 guys and still have $50m cap space still available. I'd say we need to get a center with that, and see what's left over. I like Huerter. He's probably an MLE level guy, $15m or so. If we could get a good center for $35m or less and resign Huerter, I'd be happy.
The problem with cap space is it does not seem to be as useful as it used to be. Stars want to sign extensions with current Team for more money. So few stars hit free agency.
And Bulls have poor history of being destination.
Well that has been true the last couple years but this year there are many more good RFAs who didn't sign extensions, and many more teams that will have cap space available to make offers. So I think we should expect more movement this offseason.
Just looking at centers, I don't think Kessler will end up back in Utah and I doubt Mark Williams will stay with Phoenix. OKC can't afford Hartenstein, he is almost certain to be gone.
Sure Bulls are maybe not the dream destination for most players, but we are set up to offer more money than most teams, and as you say, players like to go where they can get the most money.
I can't think of a worse case scenario than giddey averaging a triple double in Dallas while Davis sits on his injured ass at home for the rest of who knows how long. sure ol' art gets fired but so what, what are the odds anyone better replaces him. and now we're back to watching a highly paid coby, and vuc, and little else
I'd put the odds someone better than AK would replace him extremely high. Like 95%. Meaningfully better is less optimistic but I truly think AK is superlatively unsuited for the job.
hmm, what are the odds it wouldn't just be eversley
Bulls have no star power to win playoff basketball so they have to at least consider trading for AD. But his injury history means they shouldn't give up too much future picks for him.
Best case AD helps Bulls win a playoff series and helps attract a younger star to come to Chicago to join him and Giddy. Hard to believe but possible.
Worst case is he is hurt and they lose opening round playoffs again. No change to where headed now I think.
Right price it's at least giving Bulls a chance at building Team with 2 way star.
Would be a horrible trade. Davis is getting paid $54 million this season, $58 million next season and $62 million in 27/28 all guaranteed. Davis is already 32 years old and hurt often. Better to keep the gunpowder dry.
Jazz game thread is up. Coby White returns! https://open.substack.com/chat/posts/851fdef7-2aeb-45f2-a9aa-324d94efb4c6
The Bulls have a chance to get by FAR their best player since Jimmy Butler. How is this an argument?
“Oh no he’s old.” Worst case scenario they’re paying him Rudy Gobert money to be… Rudy Gobert. Tim Duncan was on the all-NBA defensive team until he was 40. If you thought the DeRozan and Vucevic trades were good ideas at the time, please PLEASE miss me with this BS about AD. This team is a play-in exit at best currently. AD would actually be a meaningful step towards a playoff series victory, something they haven’t done since… Pau Gasol?
If you think Giddey is actually good (he’s not) this becomes even more of a no-brainer to pair him up with AD. Do Bulls fan just want a mediocre team to root for??? Do we suddenly believe in AKME’s plan of not doing anything because of a 5-0 start in OCTOBER???
see below comment
Trading for AD would just be monumentally stupid.
1. It's not just that he's injury prone, he's also so expensive that paying him to play 50 games insures that you'll have 30 games of some guy who isn't any good playing big minutes.
2. He showed up fat and out of shape and promptly got hurt. He's lazy and content, and at a price you can't afford to have guys be lazy and content.
3. The track record of once super athletic bigs aging gracefully is pretty small. Usually, they put on weight, break down and age prematurely, which is exactly what AD is doing.
4. Despite his individual accomplishments, his teams outside of the LeBron Lakers have always been downright disappointing. How many guys are all-pros and can't drag their team to the playoffs? Not many. But AD is one of them. Even the Lakers were sort of expected to be more competitive beyond that one year they won.
5. He makes demands about how he should play (only the 4, not the 5) that are borderline delusional at this point.
I simply wouldn't trade for this guy unless I were giving up basically nothing to do so. Makes no sense.
If he is still demanding to play 4 then agree may be dumb to trade 4. I don't like him guarding 4s and that is not where Bulls need him.
Certainly worried about age too. AD has risk for sure but has skill on both ends of court and star power despite his flaws
He's complained about playing the 5 for what seems like forever.
Nuggets game thread - > https://open.substack.com/chat/posts/99342190-fa92-4fa9-8cdf-171407b10bec?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=2bo
aaaaaah, maybe we'll be treated with a recap of a six games skid then ^^
oh no, they won 😭😅
Hard pass on AD. Bulls need to trade with Minnesota for Beringer.
My favorite actor was Dennehy long before he played Knight. When Beringer was a substitute everything was going right.
He’s a risk but Noa and Buz with him makes a great front line for when we’re back in the playoffs in 2035. Timeline set!
Coby for Conley and Beringer. Resign but don’t overpay Ayo, Huerter, and Collins. Try for Austin Reeves, and/or draft a shooting guard. The hard part is dumping PW’s contract, he is such a bum.
I feel like I keep seeing people mention the Bulls should go after Reaves, but I don't see the appeal. He's basically a better Coby White. That's obviously a good player, but I don't see how that works with Giddey. You can't have two starting guards who are both bad defenders and have legitimate success in the playoffs.
agreed, he is just a rich man's Coby which is a great player. but still not the #1 we need and a super poor fit next to P Giddey