21 Comments

I say trade Lavine and Vuch for assets cus those are the only 2 players that complain the most about their team.

I call them cry babies

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agreed, though combination of contract and crybaby-ness means you won't get assets for them (with Vuc you'd have to include an asset)

question is would you trade them for 'guys'

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I have been saying for 2 years that Zach and Vuc should be traded... Zach to a team willing to pay him plus a ham sandwich and Vuc to a team that is willing to part with a big who rebounds and rim protects ( like Cleveland’s) .

I also written about 20 times how Andre is underutilized by the Bulls considerably overrated coach. He’s a huge + and has been for his entire career while Zach is a 1700 career - player. Those guys don’t play defense or do a host of other things that help you win.

The Bulls should start Andre and play him 25-30 minutes. They need to work on their spacing with Andre in and Andre must do a better job holding his screens. Other than that with him in the lineup and with their entire team being healthy the Bulls are a tough out for ANY team.

The bald guy who can shoot also needs more minutes. The big unknown is Williams who plays like an all star and then like a D league guy. He must be more consistent and Ayo must hit his 3’s consistently.

Hopefully their coach learns from Andre’s performance over 38 minutes. The GM must trade Zach. If he starts playing 30 minutes the Bulls will start losing again. He will change his ridiculous offense a bit to fit the team concept but that guy will never play defense which is what wins in this league.

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I have zero faith in Drummond sustaining this kind of production, but I'm still willing to watch him play 30 mpg just because I'm so sick of watching Vucevic.

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Drummond wasn’t doing any of the dumb dribbling and passing that made him a backup in the first place. If he truly just concentrates on what he’s good at, then I think it might be 30 mins a night valuable. Concentration is an issue with him sure, but he’s been playing within himself all season.

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injury update for Vuc: 7-10 days

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So out for the rest of the season, then?

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So this team is not getting blown up now, right? AK has to be looking at this going, "We are so close (to a 7-10 seed)."

I think some team is going to get Zach for a steal and he'll look great in the right role where he is not a primary creator and is doing lots of catch-and-shoot and defending with a strong back line behind him. I just hope we can get a couple assets for him, like a 1st and a young guy with some upside.

Teams like Philly, Lakers, Knicks, among others, are going to start seeing they have no real chance with their roster as-is. Another 2nd round and out isn't going to get it done for them. Someone is going to be willing to give us something for Zach on a flyer.

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I'm not convinced blowing it up was ever in play. I think they deal LaVine (obviously), sell it as addition by subtraction, keep AC like they did with Thad Young and feel good about what they've done.

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They're dumb and delusional overall. They will cite this Zach-less stretch exclusively, and the horrible start (after an offseason geared towards a strong start!) will be ignored or say 'we don't know, just weird huh'

This is also reason to not want them to do anything drastic. They're bad at this so do no harm (and jettison LaVine will do good)

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I'm not sure it's a terrible idea itself. Though it became fun to make fun of him in Boston for all of his almost trades, Danny Ainge probably had the right idea in trying to play out what he's had and then trade players when he gambles that they're at peak value. People disparaged this by saying "Well the difference is Danny Ainge robbed Billy King in Brooklyn for Garnett & Pierce and there was nothing left for anyone else to steal," but I don't think it's a coincidence he seems to have done the same with Donovan Mitchell (arguably, jury still out) and Rudy Gobert (undoubtedly, was certain the moment the trade was announced).

There are risks of course - he held out on Rondo and probably got a lower return when he finally moved him. Guys get injured, exposed as old, etc.

Like all of you, I don't want to ever see Zach LaVine play again, but if these rumors are accurate it's hard to believe his value has ever been lower. There are certainly parties involved interested in denigrating Zach's value this year, so who knows what the truth is right now.

Vucevic's value is almost certainly rock bottom, until the last year of that contract, which looks terrible. If there's going to be a sweet spot, it's probably next year, and that's getting back zero which will be a positive because I just don't see him as a top 8 contributor for anyone in the last year of that deal.

DeMar is hard to say. He came out hitting nothing, and now he's hitting a career high in 3pt% on a near career high in attempts and playing maybe the best ball of his time here as a 34 year old point forward. Because of the perceived flaws in his game, there is a ceiling on what even the most desperate team will offer, even if he's on the best contact imaginable. So short of having a time machine and being able to bounce back and forth after executing trades at various times, it's hard for me to say what the best thing here is from a value standpoint. I'm of the opinion right now that this team would be in a Boylenesque nightmare from a player development standpoint without him on the roster and that really can't be separated from the argument about keeping/trading.

It's possible that Karni makes the best move here by pure inertia. That actually goes for all 3. I realize that I'm making the case for doing nothing and they probably will send me a nice basket of sundry goods for my troubles, but I think I'm of the opinion that time will only make some of these better, even if it's not much better (Vucevic). That probably stands most of all for Zach LaVine. For however it looks that the team is killing it without him... that will probably even out and even if that's the case, his game being corrosive to team play is something that pro NBA decision makers probably already take into account.

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I’d be surprised if LaVine ever looked good defending

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This mean Drummond will get traded..doubt teams are ignoring him and id be surprised if they want Vuc and Zach but if so..take it. This a nice core to build on

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So...i've been thinking that detroit is the perfect partner for a vuc trade. They're the only team truly desperate enough to want to make a trade, zach fits the bill, and the contract being big isn't an issue as their main guys are all on rookie deals.

I doubt we get a pick back in this scenario, but we might be able to get at least one of their young guys - which, despite the pistons record, isn't a terrible haul. Basically:

A) Bagley or Wiseman

+

B) Bojan or Harris

+

C) Hayes or Ivey OR (Pipedream incoming) Ausar

A) Bagley has 2 years left on his deal and is at 12.5 million. He still has potential, dwindling as it may be, but at the very least is a PF with size and a decent albeit often hurt bigman. Somehow he's the poor version of WCjr which..i mean it's ironic. Wiseman i guess is the better player? He's technically an expiring, more of a center and once upon a time was a can't miss prospect despite only playing like 3 games in college. Neither is a bonafide homerun, but maybe they get their shit together, wiseman can at least be dropped if it's not working.

B) The obvious win here is Bojan, big wing who can shoot and plays like a legit vet. Harris isn't bad either. Both are over paid for being 3pt specialists, but cheaper than lavine (okay, not as good). Harris can easily inherit the "give me the hot sauce" meme from stacey.

C) the real prize tier? Ausar is a pipe dream, i really like his game despite his abysmal (or lack of desire of) shooting. He's not "basically a rookie" he truly is! I think he has the size, iq, and foundational skills to be a valuable wing and we'd have the time to develop him with coby and pat. Ivy is probably the fan favorite pick and probably in most people's eyes is the real pipe dream option. He can fill it up, is only 21, and has a lot of room to grow as a scoring point. He's also the one i am least excited about cuz we have coby who to me does the same things, i don't know. Finally there is killian hayes, who many had projected to be what haliburton is right now. Hayes DOES do everything, there's potential there, it's just that he's such a jack of all trades that you almost want him to pick a lane already. He reminds me, career wise, to Pat.

No pick in this trade scenario but i think the combo of young players who aren't absolutely unknowns is enticing enough for a rebuild. The contracts all end sooner than Zach's too (not counting options) so if no one looks to pan out they can be dropped.

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It’s crazy that the Bulls are playing so well with $80M out with injuries. Salary cap is $136M and Lux tax is $165M, so half their spend is now dead money.

I still think Bulls best Zach trade partner is Orlando. Isaac/Fultz/Ingles/GHarris is plenty of vet salary ballast for matching. If only we can get a young player or picks, too. Ideally we then flip some of these vets + Vuc for more.

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It just shows you how incompetent the Bulls management and coaches are. People ignore the things that allow teams to win. Team chemistry and playing within a system are underrated by most of these overpayed geniuses

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simple question: what's in it for Orlando?

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Well, ORL is 4th in DRtg and 23rd in ORtg. Zach’s contract length would be their issue.

My current idea is Zach to Nets for Simmons and whichever cheap young Nets player the Blazers want + Lonzo + nonconveying 1st give-back for Brogdon. Then we have Simmons/Brogdon - PG

Coby/Caruso - SG

Debo/Ayo - SF

PW/Craig - PF

Vuc/Drum - C

Shaves 2 years of Zach and turns Ball into a useful player.

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Zero chance they trade Lonzo. The Bulls are going to keep collecting insurance reimbursement, that's his 'use'.

and Simmons isn't a useful player either. just assume neither are playing again.

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What would you all think of a trade with the Sixers:

Caruso and Drummond for BBall Paul, Springer, Korkmaz and the two first round picks the Sixers got in the harden trade

Bulls get younger, retool around Coby, Pat, etc. BBall is a very good 2nd string center and could even play the 4 at points next to Vuc (but would be better if Vuc actually was a stretch 5 which he's not really). Springer has not played much, but I see quite a bit of potential in him. I think long term he can be a great fit next to Coby.

For the 76ers, well they have the MVP, plus Maxey, and they need to go for it now. Alex is just about perfect next to Maxey (and an upgrade on Melton). And Drummond is the best they could get to play the 8 to 10 non-Embiid minutes.

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