I didn't say but this is a weak appeal to authority. Stacey is an announcer who often says homer-like things and is certainly not a basketball scholar. He was a lottery bust who was on a great team and pouted his way off of it, if we're to be brutally honest about his bona fides.
Yeah that was for 3 years 20 years ago. I'm not really fine with the idea that some guy selling GIMME THE HOT SAUCE™ t-shirts is going to be an unimpeachable authority.
Filmed in PotatoVision™ but it turns out Chris was willing to entertain the comparisons to Vlade Divac but got annoyed when he started comparing Darko to Chris Webber to Chris Webber's face lol
What's funniest about this it wasn't even an ego trip for Webber, Kahn was objectively wrong about something that really isn't in dispute. He was saying that like Webber, Darko needed time to come into his own. Chris Webber was rookie of the year (and probably would have been an NBA all-star when he was 18 if he'd been in the league). Probably one of the most NBA-ready players ever. I miss Kahn, AK is wrong, parochial and annoying but Kahn might just make shit up like claiming Kevin Love's rebounding strength came from drinking the mother's milk of she-wolves. Amazing time in NBA history.
This is exactly what you want and would expect to see out of Vuc, and as a Bulls fan should make you happy. Most thought they'd get blown out in this game, and I was surprised it didn't happen earlier than late 3rd quarter especially how poor they were shooting. But the last 2 years have been marked by apathy, hand waving, platitudes, and mind numbing complacency from AK and from the Bulls top 2 stars, Zach + DDR. Obviously these Bulls suck and ain't it; they need heavy changes. Vuc talking so much in the offseason about this being their last chance together, about wanting to run a more efficient offense (and yes, he wants to do it through himself. Is that any surprise a "star" player would want to find offensive solutions through himself? Misguided or not), and about players needing to be more selfless.... Well now he's doing a lot of talking in Game 1. And that spurred a "come to the truth" moment in the locker room afterwards, which is much better than apathy and complacency. I would like to see DDR, Zach, and Vuc all traded if possible, and probably in that order. Caruso likely as well. Restock the coffers. But we need there to be some urgency for that to happen, and for Vuc to get pissed while they're getting smoked at home amid boo's, seems like a good start. I also thought Billy's comments were the appropriate ones as well; he knows this team isn't going anywhere if it's the status quo again. You're not going to get Zach or DDR to initiate such a discussion among the players, it's not in their nature, they're self-preservationists just like AK. But Billy seems like he's wanted one of the players to cause this for some time, to shed this team of it's funk it's been in which isn't conducive to energy and winning basketball on the court esp against teams like OKC. Everything that happened, even if you hate Vuc and Billy (which most of you seem to), should be construed as accelerationist and a net-positive towards real change
I’m still surprised at how many people bought in and fed into the sunk cost fallacy of Vucevic. Like yeah, by not trading him, they put themselves in a bad position, but that doesn’t mean they have put themselves in an even worse position.
But it also looks like they didn’t care and never saw it as a bad position-they always wanted to extend him.
I just wish there more smart people covering the Bulls and saying how dumb it was going to be to extend him before they even did, instead of the less creative “Well, they can’t do much else.”
The truth wouldn't lend itself to level of continued fan interest that keeps journalists employed, i.e., "this management team is incredibly lazy and incompetent and it's likely to get worse before it gets better."
I remember a long time ago that Red Auerbach answering a question on why he was so successful. He said he always kept three scorers on the court at all times.
And yfbb, I gotta ask... Those possessions in the first half where Vuc gets the ball at the top of the arc and doesn't even consider taking a 3, rather instantly looks to swing the ball to the open man on a developing play. Is that not what Vuc was talking about when saying he could be a useful point-center due to his passing ability? I've never seen an analyst deny Vuc is a good passer. So for him to get the ball out by the 3 point line, and pass that up in favor of facilitating offense, how can you then honestly spin that as:
1) The Bulls refused to run the offense through Vuc, when those plays seem to be what Vuc was talking about in the offseason
2) Vuc passes up 2 wide open 3's
In regards to point #2, how can we criticize Vuc for being selfish when he's literally passing up 3's to facilitate offense, misguided or not? To my eyes, it seems like he's truly trying to run the offensive sets. Through himself, yes, and you can argue we shouldn't do that. But you can't sit back and criticize him as well for being selfish or scared to shoot. I'd have to go back and look at the plays again, but it seemed like Vuc didn't even think about possibly shooting those. He was laser focused on running the set plays early in the shot clock.
And a final aside, he seems to have established low post position often throughout the game to facilitate inside-out passing and floor spacing which helped them get over 40 threes. So I think you are being a bit uncharitable here.
Edit: This is not totally dissimilar to last season, when Vuc also "complained" that they weren't running the offensive sets, and seemingly was not hasppy with all the iso ball. I would think what Vuc wants, should be welcomed by Bulls fans. Whether Vuc should be the man to say it or facilitate it, is a separate debate. But I don't understand the constant anger at Vuc trying to facilitate. It's like the man can't do anything right in the eyes of many; it will always be spun into a negative
the second one where they're down fifteen with 6 minutes to go is definitely being selfish. You need early, open threes, not Vuc-ball. The offense has already been 'facilitated' to get a good enough early shot-clock look
Exactly. The point of "running the offense" is to generate open, high percentage looks. If Vuc doesn't think a wide open 3 is a good shot for him, that's a real problem.
He was passing up open 3s all the time last year also, and Billy never did anything about it and then they gave him a big extension, so he clearly doesn't know he's doing something wrong, and maybe the coaches and management don't either. II don't think any of these guys have a viable idea how to get out of the tailspin they've collectively been in for most of the last 2 years.
1. If a player is passing up open 3s, he's misunderstanding the offense, not facilitating it. If the defense doesn't respect his shot, there's not gonna be anyone open to swing it to.
2. Let me make the implied point explicit. The defense doesn't respect Vuc's shot, so this whole idea is going to be DOA.
3. But setting that aside, Vuc still didn't do the right thing, and his 3 TOs and passed up open looks and -14 for the period didn't indicate that we were missing some great opportunity.
Are you talking about the play where he passed a wide open three, took a dribble then threw the ball out of bounds? That seems like bad basketball choices.
You can counter 3pt differential with free throws, but both teams shot the same number with Bulls making one less. I’d be more willing to run offense though Vuc down low if he actually got to the line. He took 1 last night (Bam took 10). If we’re gonna suck, I’d much rather be entertained by Drummond getting 25 boards while front rimming a few dunks.
Is having a players-only meeting after a blow out a good thing? Yes. Should you even need to have a players-only meeting because you were blown out on game ONE? Hell no!
You'd think after last season being a disappointment, AK preaching continuity for the second straight season, and all of the negative national media this team has been getting due to those previous two points, they would have come out of the gates ready to prove the haters wrong. At least that's what you'd expect from winners. Too bad this team's "big-3" hasn't won anything in their combined THIRTY-SIX seasons in the NBA.
Can I say I'm a little excited that this team might just crumble as the season goes along? I'd prefer a competent front office that realizes this thing isn't working and proactively decides to rebuild, but we all know that won't happen. So I guess our next best hope is that the team falls apart, the "stars" demand trades, and the front office has no other choice but to rebuild. Hopefully that comes with the coach being fired, and maybe the front office too. Okay, we all know that last one won't happen.
Speaking of rebuilds, remember that rebuild Billy didn't want to be a part of? Yeah, they kicked his ass last night. I'm convinced that Billy is not an NBA-level coach. He had great success in college, but has never truly had success in the NBA, other than that one season where CP3 coached that team to the playoffs. So I guess that makes him the perfect coach for this Bulls team. Why not match a coach with a nice resume, but no real success with a "big-3" that all have nice resumes and no real success?
I will defend Vooch a little here. I thought his team defense, specifically interior defense, was quite solid last night. I also think he's been better on the offensive glass in preseason and last night. I hope that continues. Him refusing to shoot wide open threes is a huge issue though. I'm not sure how I feel about him being more vocal. In the past I've criticized him for seeming uninterested at times, so I kind of like that he seems interested and vocal. On the other hand, all of his vocalizing has been about how he's not being played like Jokic. Does he just want the occasional play run through him or does he genuinely believe he can run an offense like Jokic can?
Drummond crossing Holmgren into eternity will likely be the highlight of a very tedious season!
I agree. I'm hoping for this team to completely fall apart, and sooner rather than later. They're home vs a frisky Toronto team, away vs an underrated Detroit team, away vs a potentially very good Indiana team, @ Dallas, then home for Brooklyn and then @ Denver. An ugly 0-7 start to the season is not out of the question.
While I certainly don't expect 0-7, I'd be perfectly happy with 2-5. How many games under .500 do we think before Shams hears from "sources" that Zach wants to go to LA?
It's interesting that Billy was handpicked by Karnisovas, and extended by Karnisovas but never really seems to have liked the team that Karnisovas gave him or built for him. Maybe I'm off, but it doesn't seem like the kind of team Donovan would have built or even likes. Twice now there have been drastic line-up changes right after the all-star break which seems to imply a "deal" between the two that Donovan will play who Karnisovas wants him to up until that point. Doesn't seem like a dream job for some kinda "basketball savant," but he signed up for it, and signed up again because, I would guess, it's better to be an "NBA coach" than a "former NBA coach" whatever the circumstances.
I thought in the pre-season that Donovan's demeanor had changed a lot in just the last 2 years. His usual way of talking to the press was to groom them by praising the wisdom of a question before answering it with a lot of bullshit and a tiny bit of frankness. Seems like it's just all bullshit now with an edge of impatience and testiness. I can't imagine him saying that thing about "we played your way and had the 26th offense in the league" in his first few seasons, for instance.
The funny thing is that unlike the usual calculus, in this case you probably can "fire the players" and actually should regardless of the coach. That testiness seems to imply that he doesn't think this is going to work and is sick of trying. I'm not a Billy fan, he's probably a replacement-level coach (like probably 98% of coaches) but the Bulls gig for 2023 is probably going to get several people fired, none of them the responsible parties of course.
Completely agree with your final sentence. I also agree that it seems like AK is building teams Billy probably doesn't love. How long does Billy put up with that? I think the general consensus has been that Billy and AK are buddies, but is there a point where their work disagreements start to come between them outside of work? That could be this team's best hope of change.
Not gonna overreact but yea we're not making the playoffs. Indiana is going to have a better record than us this year, I guarantee it. That's a team with an actual future.
Too much Zach dribbling
I think this is the year where DeMar starts to turn into a pumpkin...not saying he's going to totally fall off, but there's gonna be a lot of inefficient 20 points on 20 shots kinda nights esp if the refs aren't gonna give him calls
Craig is actually solid, I don't see why we needed Carter. I woulda been fine rolling with Ayo and seeing if he can get to 36% from 3 himself. There will be no breakout year from Pat....
I assume the whole team won't shoot so terribly from 3 like this but not sure if this was some slump or nerves
It's just crazy how one injury(to a non-star at that) can totally derail a team...kinda shows how flawed the AKME plan was
Honestly, I thought them signing Carter was a clear indication they weren't bringing Ayo back. But obviously bringing back a 10th man at $7 million a year made total sense.
Vuc 100% should have gotten more touches in the paint, at least in this game. The OKC center line is just not strong. You saw how Drummond, of all people, feasted on them. The Bulls total lack of ability to throw an entry pass to the post is crazy.
To be fair, being unable to make a simple entry pass has been an issue for this team since Lonzo went down. Not saying that it would change everything if they could, but there were certainly times last night where Vooch likely would have had a pretty easy shot if they could have gotten him the ball.
Vuc doesn't post up aggressively in the way a guy like Embiid does, I think, because he's not getting entry pases. When he's in good deep position he doesn't get the ball, when he does get the ball it's a roll out or post outside of the paint where he pounds the ball, stops the offense and doesnt shot as efficiently.
I also think Vuc is coming off a World Cup where he's a featured player and does well, and understandably wants to see that on the Bulls.
The amount of open threes fired will be an interesting stat to track versus last year to weed out the number of our threes that are fired just from anemic offense at the 23rd second of the possession
At this point I'm pretty sure that teams run plays specifically to bait Zach away from his man. We've seen that Caruso will often lightly nudge him into position if he's on the court, but there's nobody else that can or will (and it's pretty sad there has to be one). Again this goes to the Bill James designation of players that never stop making rookie mistakes, no matter how many times they see it.
early offensively too there was just same old Zach rushing in the lane without a plan or doing Kobe jab-steps. I caught the end of PHX-GSW the night before and Devin Booker took over the final couple minutes controlling the ball, and I can't believe people think LaVine would do that if he was just on a better team.
Looking back at the in-game context I'm not even sure what Vuc is complaining about at that time he was taken out at 9:48 in the 3rd
He played the entire quarter, Bulls scored 23 and gave up 23. He got the ball several times (1 make, 2 assists) and I think there was a couple chucks by LaVine and Coby but nothing too egregious.
His snippets to the media made it sound like he didn't like the play calls. I'm assuming Billy responded telling him to just shoot the damned ball already
Did I get the timing wrong? At the time I thought OKC was on an 8-0 run. Although they had several of those so I might be mixing up which terrible phase of the game it was
At this point I am starting to yearn for the Gar-Pax years. At least they had some resemblance of a plan and knew how to draft players. P-Williams is likely a bust and if he actually develops this year will be too expensive to keep. Our "all-stars" have basically lost all value now as they are now either too expensive, old, or not that good. Plus, most teams who are "going for it" have already made their moves. At this point just start over. Get rid of players for whatever. I have no interest in this team at all and they have no assets nor the skills to make a big splash to improve and be over a 500 team.
No one should yearn for the late GarPax years. After 2016-17 and the disaster of the Wade-Butler-Rondo combo GarPax's effort, which was anaemic at the best of times, truly bottomed out; and the internal org politics of locker room snitches, phone checks and a malignantly toxic workplace became the real story.
Let's not pretend that after that point they were anything short of a disaster, plan or no. I will take AKME/Donovan over that GarPax/Boylen bullshit any day.
1) I rolled my eyes when only two minutes into the first game, Stacey King brought out his favorite complaint about how the team needs to get Vuc more touches in the post. This team is losing games because they’re decidedly getting beat at the three-point line. A few more post-ups from Vuc isn’t going to change anything.
2) I’ve always had a problem with how much Vuc complains about officiating. If he’s now going to complain about how he’s being utilized on top of that, then he’s officially someone I have zero patience with. Supposedly there’s no contract that can’t be traded. Let’s test that theory with Vuc.
3) I’m not going to let this dumb front office impact my happiness. If they want to roll out a mediocre team that’s going nowhere, fine. It’s their funeral. I’ll enjoy watching Coby’s development and Carter & Craig do fun things while waiting for the Zach/DeRozan/Vuc trio to be broken up one year too late.
Vucevic is a career 34.8% shooter from range. I thought, mistakenly, the guy we were getting from Orlando would hover around the 38% mark, citing the 2020-2021 season as reason for optimism. But at this point, it's clear to me that:
1. Other teams don't respect his shot.
2. He wants to exist inside of the arc, on a team that is already jam-packed inside of the arc.
This really wouldn't be that big of an issue, all things considered for a losing team intent on rebuilding, EXCEPT for his newly minted contract AND the fact he's been so empowered, whether on his own or form this team, that he can pass up wide open shots, lose his shit on the coach, and have it all cited as positive progress.
I will never understand doubling down on this guy.
We'll have all year to talk about how this Bulls team sucks. Just for this one day, I want to focus on how much Chet Holmgren sucks. Cause oh man, it sure seems like that dude has nowhere near the strength to work in the paint in the NBA.
I... thought he had a pretty good first game of his NBA career? He's certainly something like their 4th option (which seems right) and seemed fine to me like that.
shooting looks fine, sure. but on defense he was getting cooked by everyone. Not just on the Drummond cross-up either. He was getting bodied by Vucevic early, and toasted when he switched onto Coby. Granted it's a first game, but man he looks like Brook Lopez without defense to me.
I mean, you’re completely wrong. Will Joel Embiid, Brook Lopez,and Jovic kill him? Sure. But he’ll be a great help defender with is blocking and switching ability, and he’s going to force those guys out of the paint on defense.
The lowlight, imo, was Stacey, while referring to Vuc, saying something along the lines of "very much like Nikola Jokic..."
Are you suggesting Stacey King doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to center and power forward play in the NBA?
Stacey himself is saying he doesn't know what he's talking about. Or at the least he's stuck in 2002
I didn't say but this is a weak appeal to authority. Stacey is an announcer who often says homer-like things and is certainly not a basketball scholar. He was a lottery bust who was on a great team and pouted his way off of it, if we're to be brutally honest about his bona fides.
He did win a CBA championship as a head coach.
But that was in his era where he's apparently stuck in since then
Yeah that was for 3 years 20 years ago. I'm not really fine with the idea that some guy selling GIMME THE HOT SAUCE™ t-shirts is going to be an unimpeachable authority.
I was reminded of the summer league game when David Kahn told Chris Webber that Darko Milicic was very similar to Vlade Divac.
Filmed in PotatoVision™ but it turns out Chris was willing to entertain the comparisons to Vlade Divac but got annoyed when he started comparing Darko to Chris Webber to Chris Webber's face lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGZebWRJWg4
What's funniest about this it wasn't even an ego trip for Webber, Kahn was objectively wrong about something that really isn't in dispute. He was saying that like Webber, Darko needed time to come into his own. Chris Webber was rookie of the year (and probably would have been an NBA all-star when he was 18 if he'd been in the league). Probably one of the most NBA-ready players ever. I miss Kahn, AK is wrong, parochial and annoying but Kahn might just make shit up like claiming Kevin Love's rebounding strength came from drinking the mother's milk of she-wolves. Amazing time in NBA history.
I'm probably responsible for 20% of that clip's views. When C-Webb asks "Vlade Divac?" I always lose it.
This is exactly what you want and would expect to see out of Vuc, and as a Bulls fan should make you happy. Most thought they'd get blown out in this game, and I was surprised it didn't happen earlier than late 3rd quarter especially how poor they were shooting. But the last 2 years have been marked by apathy, hand waving, platitudes, and mind numbing complacency from AK and from the Bulls top 2 stars, Zach + DDR. Obviously these Bulls suck and ain't it; they need heavy changes. Vuc talking so much in the offseason about this being their last chance together, about wanting to run a more efficient offense (and yes, he wants to do it through himself. Is that any surprise a "star" player would want to find offensive solutions through himself? Misguided or not), and about players needing to be more selfless.... Well now he's doing a lot of talking in Game 1. And that spurred a "come to the truth" moment in the locker room afterwards, which is much better than apathy and complacency. I would like to see DDR, Zach, and Vuc all traded if possible, and probably in that order. Caruso likely as well. Restock the coffers. But we need there to be some urgency for that to happen, and for Vuc to get pissed while they're getting smoked at home amid boo's, seems like a good start. I also thought Billy's comments were the appropriate ones as well; he knows this team isn't going anywhere if it's the status quo again. You're not going to get Zach or DDR to initiate such a discussion among the players, it's not in their nature, they're self-preservationists just like AK. But Billy seems like he's wanted one of the players to cause this for some time, to shed this team of it's funk it's been in which isn't conducive to energy and winning basketball on the court esp against teams like OKC. Everything that happened, even if you hate Vuc and Billy (which most of you seem to), should be construed as accelerationist and a net-positive towards real change
This twisted logic works better if Vuc didn't just sign a 3 year extension at already negative value
I’m still surprised at how many people bought in and fed into the sunk cost fallacy of Vucevic. Like yeah, by not trading him, they put themselves in a bad position, but that doesn’t mean they have put themselves in an even worse position.
But it also looks like they didn’t care and never saw it as a bad position-they always wanted to extend him.
I just wish there more smart people covering the Bulls and saying how dumb it was going to be to extend him before they even did, instead of the less creative “Well, they can’t do much else.”
The truth wouldn't lend itself to level of continued fan interest that keeps journalists employed, i.e., "this management team is incredibly lazy and incompetent and it's likely to get worse before it gets better."
Fair point.
I remember a long time ago that Red Auerbach answering a question on why he was so successful. He said he always kept three scorers on the court at all times.
And yfbb, I gotta ask... Those possessions in the first half where Vuc gets the ball at the top of the arc and doesn't even consider taking a 3, rather instantly looks to swing the ball to the open man on a developing play. Is that not what Vuc was talking about when saying he could be a useful point-center due to his passing ability? I've never seen an analyst deny Vuc is a good passer. So for him to get the ball out by the 3 point line, and pass that up in favor of facilitating offense, how can you then honestly spin that as:
1) The Bulls refused to run the offense through Vuc, when those plays seem to be what Vuc was talking about in the offseason
2) Vuc passes up 2 wide open 3's
In regards to point #2, how can we criticize Vuc for being selfish when he's literally passing up 3's to facilitate offense, misguided or not? To my eyes, it seems like he's truly trying to run the offensive sets. Through himself, yes, and you can argue we shouldn't do that. But you can't sit back and criticize him as well for being selfish or scared to shoot. I'd have to go back and look at the plays again, but it seemed like Vuc didn't even think about possibly shooting those. He was laser focused on running the set plays early in the shot clock.
And a final aside, he seems to have established low post position often throughout the game to facilitate inside-out passing and floor spacing which helped them get over 40 threes. So I think you are being a bit uncharitable here.
Edit: This is not totally dissimilar to last season, when Vuc also "complained" that they weren't running the offensive sets, and seemingly was not hasppy with all the iso ball. I would think what Vuc wants, should be welcomed by Bulls fans. Whether Vuc should be the man to say it or facilitate it, is a separate debate. But I don't understand the constant anger at Vuc trying to facilitate. It's like the man can't do anything right in the eyes of many; it will always be spun into a negative
the second one where they're down fifteen with 6 minutes to go is definitely being selfish. You need early, open threes, not Vuc-ball. The offense has already been 'facilitated' to get a good enough early shot-clock look
Exactly. The point of "running the offense" is to generate open, high percentage looks. If Vuc doesn't think a wide open 3 is a good shot for him, that's a real problem.
That should be a benchable offense.
He was passing up open 3s all the time last year also, and Billy never did anything about it and then they gave him a big extension, so he clearly doesn't know he's doing something wrong, and maybe the coaches and management don't either. II don't think any of these guys have a viable idea how to get out of the tailspin they've collectively been in for most of the last 2 years.
1. If a player is passing up open 3s, he's misunderstanding the offense, not facilitating it. If the defense doesn't respect his shot, there's not gonna be anyone open to swing it to.
2. Let me make the implied point explicit. The defense doesn't respect Vuc's shot, so this whole idea is going to be DOA.
3. But setting that aside, Vuc still didn't do the right thing, and his 3 TOs and passed up open looks and -14 for the period didn't indicate that we were missing some great opportunity.
4. Vuc kinda sucks.
Are you talking about the play where he passed a wide open three, took a dribble then threw the ball out of bounds? That seems like bad basketball choices.
You can counter 3pt differential with free throws, but both teams shot the same number with Bulls making one less. I’d be more willing to run offense though Vuc down low if he actually got to the line. He took 1 last night (Bam took 10). If we’re gonna suck, I’d much rather be entertained by Drummond getting 25 boards while front rimming a few dunks.
Is having a players-only meeting after a blow out a good thing? Yes. Should you even need to have a players-only meeting because you were blown out on game ONE? Hell no!
You'd think after last season being a disappointment, AK preaching continuity for the second straight season, and all of the negative national media this team has been getting due to those previous two points, they would have come out of the gates ready to prove the haters wrong. At least that's what you'd expect from winners. Too bad this team's "big-3" hasn't won anything in their combined THIRTY-SIX seasons in the NBA.
Can I say I'm a little excited that this team might just crumble as the season goes along? I'd prefer a competent front office that realizes this thing isn't working and proactively decides to rebuild, but we all know that won't happen. So I guess our next best hope is that the team falls apart, the "stars" demand trades, and the front office has no other choice but to rebuild. Hopefully that comes with the coach being fired, and maybe the front office too. Okay, we all know that last one won't happen.
Speaking of rebuilds, remember that rebuild Billy didn't want to be a part of? Yeah, they kicked his ass last night. I'm convinced that Billy is not an NBA-level coach. He had great success in college, but has never truly had success in the NBA, other than that one season where CP3 coached that team to the playoffs. So I guess that makes him the perfect coach for this Bulls team. Why not match a coach with a nice resume, but no real success with a "big-3" that all have nice resumes and no real success?
I will defend Vooch a little here. I thought his team defense, specifically interior defense, was quite solid last night. I also think he's been better on the offensive glass in preseason and last night. I hope that continues. Him refusing to shoot wide open threes is a huge issue though. I'm not sure how I feel about him being more vocal. In the past I've criticized him for seeming uninterested at times, so I kind of like that he seems interested and vocal. On the other hand, all of his vocalizing has been about how he's not being played like Jokic. Does he just want the occasional play run through him or does he genuinely believe he can run an offense like Jokic can?
Drummond crossing Holmgren into eternity will likely be the highlight of a very tedious season!
I agree. I'm hoping for this team to completely fall apart, and sooner rather than later. They're home vs a frisky Toronto team, away vs an underrated Detroit team, away vs a potentially very good Indiana team, @ Dallas, then home for Brooklyn and then @ Denver. An ugly 0-7 start to the season is not out of the question.
While I certainly don't expect 0-7, I'd be perfectly happy with 2-5. How many games under .500 do we think before Shams hears from "sources" that Zach wants to go to LA?
It would be hilarious to me if the Bulls situation deteriorated so quickly that Zach is traded before Harden, forcing him to stay in Philly.
joke will be on you when Zach is traded FOR Harden heh
rick-and-morty-cenobites-pain-is-pleasure.gif
It's interesting that Billy was handpicked by Karnisovas, and extended by Karnisovas but never really seems to have liked the team that Karnisovas gave him or built for him. Maybe I'm off, but it doesn't seem like the kind of team Donovan would have built or even likes. Twice now there have been drastic line-up changes right after the all-star break which seems to imply a "deal" between the two that Donovan will play who Karnisovas wants him to up until that point. Doesn't seem like a dream job for some kinda "basketball savant," but he signed up for it, and signed up again because, I would guess, it's better to be an "NBA coach" than a "former NBA coach" whatever the circumstances.
I thought in the pre-season that Donovan's demeanor had changed a lot in just the last 2 years. His usual way of talking to the press was to groom them by praising the wisdom of a question before answering it with a lot of bullshit and a tiny bit of frankness. Seems like it's just all bullshit now with an edge of impatience and testiness. I can't imagine him saying that thing about "we played your way and had the 26th offense in the league" in his first few seasons, for instance.
The funny thing is that unlike the usual calculus, in this case you probably can "fire the players" and actually should regardless of the coach. That testiness seems to imply that he doesn't think this is going to work and is sick of trying. I'm not a Billy fan, he's probably a replacement-level coach (like probably 98% of coaches) but the Bulls gig for 2023 is probably going to get several people fired, none of them the responsible parties of course.
Completely agree with your final sentence. I also agree that it seems like AK is building teams Billy probably doesn't love. How long does Billy put up with that? I think the general consensus has been that Billy and AK are buddies, but is there a point where their work disagreements start to come between them outside of work? That could be this team's best hope of change.
CONTINUITY!
Not gonna overreact but yea we're not making the playoffs. Indiana is going to have a better record than us this year, I guarantee it. That's a team with an actual future.
Too much Zach dribbling
I think this is the year where DeMar starts to turn into a pumpkin...not saying he's going to totally fall off, but there's gonna be a lot of inefficient 20 points on 20 shots kinda nights esp if the refs aren't gonna give him calls
Craig is actually solid, I don't see why we needed Carter. I woulda been fine rolling with Ayo and seeing if he can get to 36% from 3 himself. There will be no breakout year from Pat....
I assume the whole team won't shoot so terribly from 3 like this but not sure if this was some slump or nerves
It's just crazy how one injury(to a non-star at that) can totally derail a team...kinda shows how flawed the AKME plan was
Honestly, I thought them signing Carter was a clear indication they weren't bringing Ayo back. But obviously bringing back a 10th man at $7 million a year made total sense.
Vuc 100% should have gotten more touches in the paint, at least in this game. The OKC center line is just not strong. You saw how Drummond, of all people, feasted on them. The Bulls total lack of ability to throw an entry pass to the post is crazy.
one on one, no, but OKC was sending multiple guys in the paint. Drummond got the ball mostly off of offensive boards
To be fair, being unable to make a simple entry pass has been an issue for this team since Lonzo went down. Not saying that it would change everything if they could, but there were certainly times last night where Vooch likely would have had a pretty easy shot if they could have gotten him the ball.
Vuc doesn't post up aggressively in the way a guy like Embiid does, I think, because he's not getting entry pases. When he's in good deep position he doesn't get the ball, when he does get the ball it's a roll out or post outside of the paint where he pounds the ball, stops the offense and doesnt shot as efficiently.
I also think Vuc is coming off a World Cup where he's a featured player and does well, and understandably wants to see that on the Bulls.
Shot quality tracking (from Kevin Anderson of NBCS_Chi)
>Bulls were 4-17 on "open" threes (defender 4-6 ft away). That should improve.
>The Bulls gave up 30 "wide open" threes to OKC (defender 6+ ft). That's really bad defense.
The amount of open threes fired will be an interesting stat to track versus last year to weed out the number of our threes that are fired just from anemic offense at the 23rd second of the possession
30?!?! Holy...
At this point I'm pretty sure that teams run plays specifically to bait Zach away from his man. We've seen that Caruso will often lightly nudge him into position if he's on the court, but there's nobody else that can or will (and it's pretty sad there has to be one). Again this goes to the Bill James designation of players that never stop making rookie mistakes, no matter how many times they see it.
early offensively too there was just same old Zach rushing in the lane without a plan or doing Kobe jab-steps. I caught the end of PHX-GSW the night before and Devin Booker took over the final couple minutes controlling the ball, and I can't believe people think LaVine would do that if he was just on a better team.
Looking back at the in-game context I'm not even sure what Vuc is complaining about at that time he was taken out at 9:48 in the 3rd
He played the entire quarter, Bulls scored 23 and gave up 23. He got the ball several times (1 make, 2 assists) and I think there was a couple chucks by LaVine and Coby but nothing too egregious.
His snippets to the media made it sound like he didn't like the play calls. I'm assuming Billy responded telling him to just shoot the damned ball already
or telling him that they were making shots as a team and that's supposed to be the goal here
Did I get the timing wrong? At the time I thought OKC was on an 8-0 run. Although they had several of those so I might be mixing up which terrible phase of the game it was
Are we going to get a Vuc trade request one game into his massive overpay of a new contract? Good god, this team.
Man, I hope so.
Good write up.
At this point I am starting to yearn for the Gar-Pax years. At least they had some resemblance of a plan and knew how to draft players. P-Williams is likely a bust and if he actually develops this year will be too expensive to keep. Our "all-stars" have basically lost all value now as they are now either too expensive, old, or not that good. Plus, most teams who are "going for it" have already made their moves. At this point just start over. Get rid of players for whatever. I have no interest in this team at all and they have no assets nor the skills to make a big splash to improve and be over a 500 team.
Agreed, it’s just depressing all around.
No one should yearn for the late GarPax years. After 2016-17 and the disaster of the Wade-Butler-Rondo combo GarPax's effort, which was anaemic at the best of times, truly bottomed out; and the internal org politics of locker room snitches, phone checks and a malignantly toxic workplace became the real story.
Let's not pretend that after that point they were anything short of a disaster, plan or no. I will take AKME/Donovan over that GarPax/Boylen bullshit any day.
Three thoughts:
1) I rolled my eyes when only two minutes into the first game, Stacey King brought out his favorite complaint about how the team needs to get Vuc more touches in the post. This team is losing games because they’re decidedly getting beat at the three-point line. A few more post-ups from Vuc isn’t going to change anything.
2) I’ve always had a problem with how much Vuc complains about officiating. If he’s now going to complain about how he’s being utilized on top of that, then he’s officially someone I have zero patience with. Supposedly there’s no contract that can’t be traded. Let’s test that theory with Vuc.
3) I’m not going to let this dumb front office impact my happiness. If they want to roll out a mediocre team that’s going nowhere, fine. It’s their funeral. I’ll enjoy watching Coby’s development and Carter & Craig do fun things while waiting for the Zach/DeRozan/Vuc trio to be broken up one year too late.
Usually guys who complain about calls a lot get to the line. Vuc is historically bad at that, so does that make him a historically bad complainer?
uses Serbian, so doesn't get techs but also doesn't get refs attention
Vucevic is a career 34.8% shooter from range. I thought, mistakenly, the guy we were getting from Orlando would hover around the 38% mark, citing the 2020-2021 season as reason for optimism. But at this point, it's clear to me that:
1. Other teams don't respect his shot.
2. He wants to exist inside of the arc, on a team that is already jam-packed inside of the arc.
This really wouldn't be that big of an issue, all things considered for a losing team intent on rebuilding, EXCEPT for his newly minted contract AND the fact he's been so empowered, whether on his own or form this team, that he can pass up wide open shots, lose his shit on the coach, and have it all cited as positive progress.
I will never understand doubling down on this guy.
So if the Bulls fire Billy before his extension starts next season, do they still have to pay it? Searching for any sort of potential positives...
We'll have all year to talk about how this Bulls team sucks. Just for this one day, I want to focus on how much Chet Holmgren sucks. Cause oh man, it sure seems like that dude has nowhere near the strength to work in the paint in the NBA.
I... thought he had a pretty good first game of his NBA career? He's certainly something like their 4th option (which seems right) and seemed fine to me like that.
shooting looks fine, sure. but on defense he was getting cooked by everyone. Not just on the Drummond cross-up either. He was getting bodied by Vucevic early, and toasted when he switched onto Coby. Granted it's a first game, but man he looks like Brook Lopez without defense to me.
he'll be a good player but needs another year to solidify his core.
I mean, you’re completely wrong. Will Joel Embiid, Brook Lopez,and Jovic kill him? Sure. But he’ll be a great help defender with is blocking and switching ability, and he’s going to force those guys out of the paint on defense.
Why do you think Jovic would kill him?
Jokic...
Yes I know what you meant. Sorry was just messing with you :-)
No worries