It's my understanding that the winners of the midseason tournament get $500k each, a significant bonus for role players. And the losers get to host Larsa Pippen and Michael Jordan's son, or as they're now calling themselves the "Meghan Markle and Prince Harry of the NBA"
Miss Pippen and Michael Jordan's son released a statement on social media over the backdrop of Larsa's ass in a bikini stating "We humbly embark on this stadium tour of all 29 NBA midseason tournament losers to make it known that we just want respect for our privacy and to be left alone as Larsa pursues her 47 year old Instagram model career, and we produce our live on air wedding ceremony".
Intelligent life forms nearing earths orbit to invite our species into a higher consciousness, upon reading this post, aborted mission and descended far into the outer galaxies
Genuinely, I think a much better solution to making the regular season more exciting is to give better regular season teams more advantages in the playoffs. Instead of the first round we have now, institute something like a round-robin tournament where the top 8 teams in each league play each other once, with the higher seed playing the game at home. The top 4 in the mini league advance. Then the next round is a best of 3 round-robin among the remaining teams with the higher seed getting two home games against lower-seeded opponents. The top 2 in the league table advance to a best of 7 series against each other with the two league winners playing in the finals.
It's more playoff games for the league and the best teams get the reward of more home games (and gate receipts). Better playoff rewards for regular season performances offer more incentives for players and teams to work hard in the regular season. It might even cut down on the load management rest that the league is trying to reduce.
Recalls Jack Nicholson's advice to a young actor as to how he approaches each day on the set. He thinks, "Another day, another fifty thousand dollars . . ."
YffB posts have been largely spot on if grasping for straws to analyze this mess of a team. It's a mess due to faulty roster construction, less than optimized playing style strategy, zero coaching accountability, and players with some level of individual skill but very low team play IQ.
That's it. Might be a .500 team. Don't see AKME improving on current strengths or going full rebuild. So discussion of ups, downs, what-ifs and why-nots--the very currency of BaB--feels sadly pointless.
I keep watching, I see life here and there but eventually will have to bail out to preserve my sanity. And not sure what would draw me back with any sort of expectation other than masochism.
I think many want him taking less, meaning he'd be on the bench
I have hesitated calling for Pat to be benched because I don't think Torrey Craig is markedly better at what the lineup needs (he's played better so far), but seeing last night's attempts from PWill, I'd think Craig would've looked better with those opportunities. quicker release, quicker to the ball...Pat is like 5 feet behind the line because he knows he needs to load up. And when the pass was off on one he was (per usual) slow to adjust
I thought about putting in a caveat about the question assuming he is still in the starting line up.
I don't think anyone would be particularly upset with him being benched, but I was generally curious about how many shots people would like to see him take to show he's being more aggressive and part of the offense as a starter.
Right I did not have a problem with his aggression towards shooting attempts last night. Now some of his skill looked bad, but he's not a very skilled player. Honestly if he is benched he should be 10th man not 6th
I understood that you didn't have a problem with his aggression and your concerns (to be polite to PW) about his skills. We've all be clamoring for him to be more aggressive.
I was curious if you and others thought that was aggressive enough in regards to shooting and if not, how many shots would be appropriate. Is 6 shots about right when he starts and/or plays 25 minutes? Should it be more like 8-10?
I'm certainly not complaining that he was more aggressive or implying that you were making that complaint.
Very common for people to confuse 3PTA rate as an output problem when it's actually an input problem. When you treat it as an output problem, you get results like the Process 6ers top 5 in expected FG% and like the worst offense in the league.
The Bulls as-is have no way to approach this in the correct way, as an input problem. Their team just does not have the skill for it, and their coach isn't creative. This is why I said in preseason that Coby was their best bet to tilt the offensive math a little in their direction. If the team can't get more 3s up by elevating their offensive process, then the only other option is to have more guys take them off the dribble and in other messy self-created scenarios.
Can you elaborate on it being an input problem? I'm also unclear on what you mean by "elevating their offensive process" in relation to it, but I'm always interested to read analyses that look at things from a different perspective, particularly when the mainstream one seems to be falling flat.
I can certainly try to explain what I have in mind. Think of the Bulls' offense as a system. That system has outputs, which we are all familiar with. Offensive counting stats: makes, misses, turnovers, ORebs, etc. That system also has inputs: the players and their skill profiles, lineup and rotation decisions, strategy, tactics, gameplans, and anything else that directly or indirectly governs the relations between the players.
If you want your team to shoot as many threes as possible, and you explicitly try to target/maximize that output, it is my belief that you will not achieve your ultimate goal, which is to get your ORtg has high as possible.
So roughly, I think it's more like, you want to get your inputs harmonized first. Make sure your structure is optimizing your players as a whole. Then within that framework, there will be opportunities to maximize the number of 3s you take. But crucially, that maximization problem will be constrained by the input framework.
One thing I want to note. I've used a bunch of mathy words here. Don't take this shit too literally. It's just the most convenient language I have on hand to get these ideas across.
To make this a bit more concrete you can look at the Mavs and OKC games for examples. The quality of three point looks they generate off Luka's and SGA's drives are not the same as the ones the Bulls get from playing in the midrange.
I wrote a while ago that the play type data from last year has them just being anemic at the types of efficient offense that other (successful) teams are employing. Simply chucking up more threes isn't going to improve things, they need a complete rework of their offensive identity. Good thing we have Billy Donovan, who I don't think actually coaches offense, and three guys who seem extremely keen to play me-first ball.
All in all, this was a solid effort last night. About as much as you can ask for from the team as it is currently constructed and coached. And while I say that in a slightly negative, apathetic way, I'm sure AK would take that as a compliment.
I think Vooch had a genuinely good game last night. He definitely seems more fired up to start this season than he has in the past. I've been quick to call him out for appearing disinterested at times over the past couple years, so I'm glad to see him so engaged this year (even if it's because he thinks he's proving he's better than he really is).
Not sure what's going on with Pat. Is he just ice cold to start the season or is he missing because he's way overthinking? He's looked okay, by our very low standards for him, the last couple of games outside of his shooting. Usually when he's overthinking, the rest of his game suffers just as much, so I don't really know what it is this time.
I'd still really like to see Carter and Craig start over Coby and Pat. I'm not saying that moves the needle that much, but I do believe Carter and Craig will play better alongside the mid-3 and both Coby and Pat will play better off the bench.
> This is why the whole “the Bulls shouldn’t shoot 3s because they aren’t good at it” narrative falls flat for me. At the end of the day, you can’t ignore where the league is at. Dallas knows that DJJ isn’t a particularly consistent shooter, but that isn’t going to stop them from telling him to fire away
At the risk of sounding like a Triangle hater, DJJ got 9 attempts because he had the most brilliant offensive player I've seen in the last 20 years kicking him the ball and in Chicago he had Zach LaVine looking like a chihauhua trying to find the zeroes of a quadratic function. Giving him this advice on the Bulls ("just shoot more bro") is about as useful as asking Zach if he's tried to be more like Luka.
Jones' role on the Bulls was essentially that of a back-up center, and on offense would mostly serve to drag the opposing center out of the paint and away from whoever was actually working with the ball. It was a gross misuse of his athleticism, which isn't even addressed above — DJJ was slashing to the hoop as well, which he never did here and again he's likely never seen so few defenders ready for him on his way to the rim thanks to Luka. Billy did not do a Coach of the Year level job on Jones but he would probably argue that he needed some kind of backup 4/5 that could somewhat credibly stretch the floor and had nobody else, and he's not wrong about that either.
I didn't take it to exactly mean Jones should've shot more as a Bull, but the Bulls have similar 'non shooters' (and others who are pretty good even) who the broadcast says not to. And perhaps Billy is designing not to, though I think more than part of that is due to the mid 3 versus Luka
Okay I'm fine with being a jagoff about that argument too. 😀
It's an interesting one because DJJ is (I think we all agree) a pretty marginal player and the contrast between the Bulls' and Mavericks' offenses are so stark.
Through four games, Jones is averaging more than twice his previous high in 3 point shot attempts and shooting at a higher % than ever. Is that because he's "encouraged" and some guys on the Bulls are "discouraged"? Or because he's seeing an open court in a manner he hasn't in his life up to this point? I haven't bothered to compare pace or anything, but I feel confident in attributing that to having two Hall of Fame-level playmakers on the court through 3 of their 4 games.
I'd like the Bulls to get more GOOD 3 point shots, and I don't think that's possible with the players they have. The Bulls have one guy who seems able to penetrate and disrupt defenses, unfortunately he doesn't do it consistently and he usually doesn't look to pass out of it (another point you make above).
(And to be honest, the main people on the Bulls that I see passing up good 3 point attempts are actually shooters — Vucevic and Pat Williams.)
My observation is that although Luca is uniquely good, the Mavs were just doing what pretty much every team does. When they look to pass, they were, to a man, looking to move the ball out to the perimeter and to shoot the ball quick.
The Bulls, they do the opposite. I don't give a shit what anyone told them for a week in camp, the lesson that stuck was Vuc saying "fuck this shit" mid way through the first game, and everyone else immediately following suit.
The Midden 3 are NOT looking to pass most of the time. Aside from one DeMar to Carter 3 pointer setup, they are working really hard to get the ball inside. The rest of the players are props and they all look scared as shit that they're going to get an earful if they don't give the ball to the right guy.
One thing about Doncic, is he knows he's fucking good. He's not insecure. He's not gonna lose any sleep over the fact that DJJ or Tim Hardaway shot as much as they did.
I think if DJJ has somehow had ever shot 9 3PAs in a Bulls game, he'd wake up with a horse head in his bed the next morning.
It's so funny that the org was like "this is a big year for Patrick, he has to produce" and then they just went ahead and put him on the "Lauri Markkanen Memorial Statuesque 3pt Shooter" offensive development plan lol.
AK has literally stated he doesn't believe in in-season development. That it's on players to improve in offseason and show the coaches what they can contribute
That said, Williams has never shown ability to be non-statuesque, so I'm not lamenting the team not giving him more opportunities just because they say it's a big year
I don't know, I just remember Pat was a prospect who didn't project to be skilled offensively. And has never showed it in limited opportunities. I don't think "well maybe if we give him the ball more and more defensive attention on him he'll unlock some hidden talent" is going to work either
Now it would if the Bulls were actually trying to build a younger team. But they're building around the 33 year old double-double machine
A masterful rebuttal of the argument that Patrick is not as talented an offensive player as Lauri. An triumph only muted by the fact that no one made that argument.
i'm more making an argument that Lauri had inherently more to develop from. Pat has little. What's his NBA capability? he's large? he's not even that athletic.
One of the entertaining storylines of the season alongside perennial favorite "We don't have a point guard so lets just get a bunch of guys who kind of look like one if you squint."
i thought so too but he is actually legit kinda good. some of it is having the green light in Utah but he is one of the few players who had 100 dunks and 200 3 pointers so he was actually scoring inside and out. He was mid defensively and kinda "soft" but dude always had skills offensively....he was mis-used as solely being a stretch 4
"I'm not a system player; I am a system" - James Harden
Hilarious quote reminiscient of Pete Weber's "Who do you think you are? I am", until I realized that each one of our Mid 3 also believe they are a #System
Yeah. One thing for someone to say it about another player, and another to say it about yourself. I sometimes wonder why I follow this league, and it's likely only cause I grew up addicted to Jordan's Bulls. These guys get paid hundreds of millions, most sleep with different women every night, don't care much what their coaches (bosses) have to say... There's really very little relatable to the NBA players experience and a fan perspective. Their egos are bigger than I can conceive. Makes me wonder about Zach that year after the Olympics...
I saw that LaVine talked to the media and tried to blame all of the drama surrounding the team meeting on Donovan. Seems to me like he’s upset that Billy told reporters about it.
So to recap, we have a team that might not like each other, a highest paid player who definitely doesn’t like our coach, a re-signed center who has already complained to our coach about how he’s being used, a fourth overall pick who still has people trying to motivate him to play aggressively despite this being his fourth year in the league, and an immediate future that likely includes 41 wins, another play-in loss, and watching DeRozan walk for nothing.
I don’t know about you guys, but I sure am glad we didn’t blow this thing up last season and tank. I mean, I’d much rather have this disappointing team than Wemby. Who likes young superstars who are already making huge impacts? I’d much rather root for a mediocre team that can maybe improve if the key veteran players just magically change how they play.
Billy Donovan speedrunning the descent to lame duck status is both funny and sad. Never heard of that happening to a coach at the beginning of an extension.
What are you thinking? I'm looking at the rosters and nothing is jumping out at me. Maybe Zach & PWill for Simmons & DFS? DFS played for Billy at UF, so there is a connection there.
I'm not saying you are wrong. I just didn't see much that made sense number-wise that would address our issues. I definitely think we need some changes to the roster, so I'm curious about what might work to the benefit of both teams.
I don't know his game very well, but maybe as a secondary piece of a trade. I don't think he'd move the needle as a primary piece because what we need is a facilitator and that doesn't appear to be a big part of his game, with <2 assists per game. He also doesn't take many 3pt shots, which is something we need.
I caught the Wembanyama highlights this morning. He's going to be a problem. Out of all the stuff he does, his movement and ball-handling might be the most impressive [and that's acknowledging he's a 7'5"er with easy three-point range].
Looking at the Bulls schedule after this Nets game, I think it's reasonable to assume they go 9-19 over their next 28 games which takes them to an 11-23 record going into their Home and Home with Charlotte Jan 5. And this is without any major injuries, which as Captain Kirk pointed out will really send them spiraling.
From Jan 5 to the Feb 8 trade deadline, they'll go about .500, maybe 7-8.
They've shown to me they're probably slightly worse than the likes of Detroit, Toronto, and Brooklyn. Which puts them firmly in the bottom ten teams of the league. As Bulldog pointed out on Bulls Talk, they can't beat run and gun teams like Detroit, or 3 point heavy teams like Dallas (got lucky against Indiana), so they need to beat old-school half-court teams like Toronto, NYK, Miami, etc. Their margin for error is razor thin currently, and they basically need to lure teams into an ugly brand of basketball to trick them into losing.
A record of 18-31 or thereabouts with such a veteran group together for 3 years, must force AK's hand here to do some changes. Also, an 18-31 record will cause a lot of infighting among the vets, and this thing will start to unravel itself. Can't Lonzo-splain your way out of this one; we're basically on the tier with the Magic, Piston, and Trashtors in the East, fighting for a 10th spot. Which we can maybe get, but the schedule doesn't get sustainably easier until after Jan 3. We're watching a dying star that never shone to bright in the first place here.
Here's a fun one: Zach LaVine is now older than Jimmy Butler was when the Bulls traded him.
The talent differential between a very middling team like Brooklyn and Chicago is staggering. On their merits half of our rotation would probably have difficulty finding any playing time on Brooklyn's roster. Donovan just pulled Craig into the starting lineup, and he's played way above his pay grade. But he wouldn't play at all ahead of DFS, Royce or Cam Johnson and probably wouldn't make the team. The Bulls talent level after the first four or five is comparable to an expansion team. Even if they got a huge haul of draft picks for LaVine ([x] for doubt), I don't see any evidence these guys are good at selecting players and recognizing talent.
The rebuild is gonna be cold, it's gonna be grey, and it's gonna last you for the rest of your life.
I am convinced that the Bulls are doomed to not make the playoffs. The owner has doomed them by not getting them any help from the draft because he is a chronic tightwad. The coach has got to go because he does not know what he is doing. He reminds me of Hoiberg, not enough to coach a team to 500. A good coach could put this team at 8th seed if he were to start right now. Reinsdorf only heard the words from Vucevic that the team has more than enough to win against anyone. Now they got to prove it and they really don't have enough unless Vuch, White and DeRozen put up more than 30 points every night with double figures from 4 others on the team. The whole thing could have been resolved if the Bulls pick up either Dinwiddy or Buddy Hield and a scoring shot blocking big for Lavine, Vucevic and Ball. Even if they made the trade to LA with Lavine for Russell and Rui when they were available and picked up an experienced coach, the Bulls would be a 500 team by now. Because of inaction before the trade, we are doomed to watch the Bulls miss the playoff by a little bit just like most teams they lose to. With 4 injured players we still have an open slot. Thanks Jerry, I hope that you sell enough tickets and enough bs to keep bulls fans coming next year back to the see the same team play. Keep showing Michael Jordan era highlights on your Bulls website. Nothing to see here.
It's my understanding that the winners of the midseason tournament get $500k each, a significant bonus for role players. And the losers get to host Larsa Pippen and Michael Jordan's son, or as they're now calling themselves the "Meghan Markle and Prince Harry of the NBA"
So, ya know, there's a big incentive to not lose
Miss Pippen and Michael Jordan's son released a statement on social media over the backdrop of Larsa's ass in a bikini stating "We humbly embark on this stadium tour of all 29 NBA midseason tournament losers to make it known that we just want respect for our privacy and to be left alone as Larsa pursues her 47 year old Instagram model career, and we produce our live on air wedding ceremony".
Intelligent life forms nearing earths orbit to invite our species into a higher consciousness, upon reading this post, aborted mission and descended far into the outer galaxies
But not because of Larsa Pippen or Michael Jordan's son, the aliens only left because they thought the midseason tournament idea was a dumb idea
Genuinely, I think a much better solution to making the regular season more exciting is to give better regular season teams more advantages in the playoffs. Instead of the first round we have now, institute something like a round-robin tournament where the top 8 teams in each league play each other once, with the higher seed playing the game at home. The top 4 in the mini league advance. Then the next round is a best of 3 round-robin among the remaining teams with the higher seed getting two home games against lower-seeded opponents. The top 2 in the league table advance to a best of 7 series against each other with the two league winners playing in the finals.
It's more playoff games for the league and the best teams get the reward of more home games (and gate receipts). Better playoff rewards for regular season performances offer more incentives for players and teams to work hard in the regular season. It might even cut down on the load management rest that the league is trying to reduce.
Recalls Jack Nicholson's advice to a young actor as to how he approaches each day on the set. He thinks, "Another day, another fifty thousand dollars . . ."
Amazing find
YffB posts have been largely spot on if grasping for straws to analyze this mess of a team. It's a mess due to faulty roster construction, less than optimized playing style strategy, zero coaching accountability, and players with some level of individual skill but very low team play IQ.
That's it. Might be a .500 team. Don't see AKME improving on current strengths or going full rebuild. So discussion of ups, downs, what-ifs and why-nots--the very currency of BaB--feels sadly pointless.
I keep watching, I see life here and there but eventually will have to bail out to preserve my sanity. And not sure what would draw me back with any sort of expectation other than masochism.
PWill's shot is obviously cold right now (an understatement, I know), but generally how many shots does everyone think he should be taking per game?
I think many want him taking less, meaning he'd be on the bench
I have hesitated calling for Pat to be benched because I don't think Torrey Craig is markedly better at what the lineup needs (he's played better so far), but seeing last night's attempts from PWill, I'd think Craig would've looked better with those opportunities. quicker release, quicker to the ball...Pat is like 5 feet behind the line because he knows he needs to load up. And when the pass was off on one he was (per usual) slow to adjust
I thought about putting in a caveat about the question assuming he is still in the starting line up.
I don't think anyone would be particularly upset with him being benched, but I was generally curious about how many shots people would like to see him take to show he's being more aggressive and part of the offense as a starter.
Right I did not have a problem with his aggression towards shooting attempts last night. Now some of his skill looked bad, but he's not a very skilled player. Honestly if he is benched he should be 10th man not 6th
I understood that you didn't have a problem with his aggression and your concerns (to be polite to PW) about his skills. We've all be clamoring for him to be more aggressive.
I was curious if you and others thought that was aggressive enough in regards to shooting and if not, how many shots would be appropriate. Is 6 shots about right when he starts and/or plays 25 minutes? Should it be more like 8-10?
I'm certainly not complaining that he was more aggressive or implying that you were making that complaint.
More than too few and fewer than too many.
Very common for people to confuse 3PTA rate as an output problem when it's actually an input problem. When you treat it as an output problem, you get results like the Process 6ers top 5 in expected FG% and like the worst offense in the league.
The Bulls as-is have no way to approach this in the correct way, as an input problem. Their team just does not have the skill for it, and their coach isn't creative. This is why I said in preseason that Coby was their best bet to tilt the offensive math a little in their direction. If the team can't get more 3s up by elevating their offensive process, then the only other option is to have more guys take them off the dribble and in other messy self-created scenarios.
Can you elaborate on it being an input problem? I'm also unclear on what you mean by "elevating their offensive process" in relation to it, but I'm always interested to read analyses that look at things from a different perspective, particularly when the mainstream one seems to be falling flat.
I can certainly try to explain what I have in mind. Think of the Bulls' offense as a system. That system has outputs, which we are all familiar with. Offensive counting stats: makes, misses, turnovers, ORebs, etc. That system also has inputs: the players and their skill profiles, lineup and rotation decisions, strategy, tactics, gameplans, and anything else that directly or indirectly governs the relations between the players.
If you want your team to shoot as many threes as possible, and you explicitly try to target/maximize that output, it is my belief that you will not achieve your ultimate goal, which is to get your ORtg has high as possible.
So roughly, I think it's more like, you want to get your inputs harmonized first. Make sure your structure is optimizing your players as a whole. Then within that framework, there will be opportunities to maximize the number of 3s you take. But crucially, that maximization problem will be constrained by the input framework.
One thing I want to note. I've used a bunch of mathy words here. Don't take this shit too literally. It's just the most convenient language I have on hand to get these ideas across.
To make this a bit more concrete you can look at the Mavs and OKC games for examples. The quality of three point looks they generate off Luka's and SGA's drives are not the same as the ones the Bulls get from playing in the midrange.
I wrote a while ago that the play type data from last year has them just being anemic at the types of efficient offense that other (successful) teams are employing. Simply chucking up more threes isn't going to improve things, they need a complete rework of their offensive identity. Good thing we have Billy Donovan, who I don't think actually coaches offense, and three guys who seem extremely keen to play me-first ball.
Sounds like you are using more analytical to say we need a more cohesive roster building strategy. I'm totally on board with that.
All in all, this was a solid effort last night. About as much as you can ask for from the team as it is currently constructed and coached. And while I say that in a slightly negative, apathetic way, I'm sure AK would take that as a compliment.
I think Vooch had a genuinely good game last night. He definitely seems more fired up to start this season than he has in the past. I've been quick to call him out for appearing disinterested at times over the past couple years, so I'm glad to see him so engaged this year (even if it's because he thinks he's proving he's better than he really is).
Not sure what's going on with Pat. Is he just ice cold to start the season or is he missing because he's way overthinking? He's looked okay, by our very low standards for him, the last couple of games outside of his shooting. Usually when he's overthinking, the rest of his game suffers just as much, so I don't really know what it is this time.
I'd still really like to see Carter and Craig start over Coby and Pat. I'm not saying that moves the needle that much, but I do believe Carter and Craig will play better alongside the mid-3 and both Coby and Pat will play better off the bench.
> This is why the whole “the Bulls shouldn’t shoot 3s because they aren’t good at it” narrative falls flat for me. At the end of the day, you can’t ignore where the league is at. Dallas knows that DJJ isn’t a particularly consistent shooter, but that isn’t going to stop them from telling him to fire away
At the risk of sounding like a Triangle hater, DJJ got 9 attempts because he had the most brilliant offensive player I've seen in the last 20 years kicking him the ball and in Chicago he had Zach LaVine looking like a chihauhua trying to find the zeroes of a quadratic function. Giving him this advice on the Bulls ("just shoot more bro") is about as useful as asking Zach if he's tried to be more like Luka.
Jones' role on the Bulls was essentially that of a back-up center, and on offense would mostly serve to drag the opposing center out of the paint and away from whoever was actually working with the ball. It was a gross misuse of his athleticism, which isn't even addressed above — DJJ was slashing to the hoop as well, which he never did here and again he's likely never seen so few defenders ready for him on his way to the rim thanks to Luka. Billy did not do a Coach of the Year level job on Jones but he would probably argue that he needed some kind of backup 4/5 that could somewhat credibly stretch the floor and had nobody else, and he's not wrong about that either.
I didn't take it to exactly mean Jones should've shot more as a Bull, but the Bulls have similar 'non shooters' (and others who are pretty good even) who the broadcast says not to. And perhaps Billy is designing not to, though I think more than part of that is due to the mid 3 versus Luka
Okay I'm fine with being a jagoff about that argument too. 😀
It's an interesting one because DJJ is (I think we all agree) a pretty marginal player and the contrast between the Bulls' and Mavericks' offenses are so stark.
Through four games, Jones is averaging more than twice his previous high in 3 point shot attempts and shooting at a higher % than ever. Is that because he's "encouraged" and some guys on the Bulls are "discouraged"? Or because he's seeing an open court in a manner he hasn't in his life up to this point? I haven't bothered to compare pace or anything, but I feel confident in attributing that to having two Hall of Fame-level playmakers on the court through 3 of their 4 games.
I'd like the Bulls to get more GOOD 3 point shots, and I don't think that's possible with the players they have. The Bulls have one guy who seems able to penetrate and disrupt defenses, unfortunately he doesn't do it consistently and he usually doesn't look to pass out of it (another point you make above).
(And to be honest, the main people on the Bulls that I see passing up good 3 point attempts are actually shooters — Vucevic and Pat Williams.)
My observation is that although Luca is uniquely good, the Mavs were just doing what pretty much every team does. When they look to pass, they were, to a man, looking to move the ball out to the perimeter and to shoot the ball quick.
The Bulls, they do the opposite. I don't give a shit what anyone told them for a week in camp, the lesson that stuck was Vuc saying "fuck this shit" mid way through the first game, and everyone else immediately following suit.
The Midden 3 are NOT looking to pass most of the time. Aside from one DeMar to Carter 3 pointer setup, they are working really hard to get the ball inside. The rest of the players are props and they all look scared as shit that they're going to get an earful if they don't give the ball to the right guy.
One thing about Doncic, is he knows he's fucking good. He's not insecure. He's not gonna lose any sleep over the fact that DJJ or Tim Hardaway shot as much as they did.
I think if DJJ has somehow had ever shot 9 3PAs in a Bulls game, he'd wake up with a horse head in his bed the next morning.
It's so funny that the org was like "this is a big year for Patrick, he has to produce" and then they just went ahead and put him on the "Lauri Markkanen Memorial Statuesque 3pt Shooter" offensive development plan lol.
AK has literally stated he doesn't believe in in-season development. That it's on players to improve in offseason and show the coaches what they can contribute
That said, Williams has never shown ability to be non-statuesque, so I'm not lamenting the team not giving him more opportunities just because they say it's a big year
"We ain't tried nothing and we're all out of ideas" gets the yfbb seal of approval. Sad!
I don't know, I just remember Pat was a prospect who didn't project to be skilled offensively. And has never showed it in limited opportunities. I don't think "well maybe if we give him the ball more and more defensive attention on him he'll unlock some hidden talent" is going to work either
Now it would if the Bulls were actually trying to build a younger team. But they're building around the 33 year old double-double machine
For all his lack of development, Lauri produced way more, and shown way more skill, than Williams ever has
A masterful rebuttal of the argument that Patrick is not as talented an offensive player as Lauri. An triumph only muted by the fact that no one made that argument.
i'm more making an argument that Lauri had inherently more to develop from. Pat has little. What's his NBA capability? he's large? he's not even that athletic.
maybe their best bet is to assume they will be rebuilding soon, and bench Williams entirely now so they can suppress his next contract
One of the entertaining storylines of the season alongside perennial favorite "We don't have a point guard so lets just get a bunch of guys who kind of look like one if you squint."
"Pass to the one in the middle, Rocky"
also I still think Lauri kinda sucks. And Wendell definitely still sucks. Pat would do better on a rebuilding team, yes.
and in their epic battle last night, WCJ got hurt again
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/11/magics-wendell-carter-jr-breaks-bone-in-hand.html?utm_source=twitter
Oof, dude has played in 68% of games in his career.
i thought so too but he is actually legit kinda good. some of it is having the green light in Utah but he is one of the few players who had 100 dunks and 200 3 pointers so he was actually scoring inside and out. He was mid defensively and kinda "soft" but dude always had skills offensively....he was mis-used as solely being a stretch 4
Lol
Guys, is it possible P-Will ain't it?
P-Won’t, I’m sorry everyone
The 2023-2034 Chicago Bulls: Bending Hectic
https://open.spotify.com/track/2tA4gq8tO9TPPPpbgK5n4w?si=wP4bLCFNQ1eAjW8KxLjHEQ
That photo of Coby kills me.
I don't think he's flopping all game, he just seems to more easily fly on the ground than others
"I'm not a system player; I am a system" - James Harden
Hilarious quote reminiscient of Pete Weber's "Who do you think you are? I am", until I realized that each one of our Mid 3 also believe they are a #System
He's clearly been watching "The Bear"
I remember Skiles saying this about Steve Nash. Now that was a guy who loved the lost art of the mid range.
Yeah. One thing for someone to say it about another player, and another to say it about yourself. I sometimes wonder why I follow this league, and it's likely only cause I grew up addicted to Jordan's Bulls. These guys get paid hundreds of millions, most sleep with different women every night, don't care much what their coaches (bosses) have to say... There's really very little relatable to the NBA players experience and a fan perspective. Their egos are bigger than I can conceive. Makes me wonder about Zach that year after the Olympics...
I saw that LaVine talked to the media and tried to blame all of the drama surrounding the team meeting on Donovan. Seems to me like he’s upset that Billy told reporters about it.
So to recap, we have a team that might not like each other, a highest paid player who definitely doesn’t like our coach, a re-signed center who has already complained to our coach about how he’s being used, a fourth overall pick who still has people trying to motivate him to play aggressively despite this being his fourth year in the league, and an immediate future that likely includes 41 wins, another play-in loss, and watching DeRozan walk for nothing.
I don’t know about you guys, but I sure am glad we didn’t blow this thing up last season and tank. I mean, I’d much rather have this disappointing team than Wemby. Who likes young superstars who are already making huge impacts? I’d much rather root for a mediocre team that can maybe improve if the key veteran players just magically change how they play.
always adorable when Zach talks like he's a star
Billy Donovan speedrunning the descent to lame duck status is both funny and sad. Never heard of that happening to a coach at the beginning of an extension.
he's basically the CEO
Bulls vs. Nets tonight.
Might there be a trade between these two teams at some point?
What are you thinking? I'm looking at the rosters and nothing is jumping out at me. Maybe Zach & PWill for Simmons & DFS? DFS played for Billy at UF, so there is a connection there.
Well, we have two established offensive stars and not much of a team around them;
and they have no established offensive stars [Bridges and Cam Thomas are emerging] but a lot of depth around them.
Maybe our needs overlap . . .
I'm not saying you are wrong. I just didn't see much that made sense number-wise that would address our issues. I definitely think we need some changes to the roster, so I'm curious about what might work to the benefit of both teams.
I really have no idea.
Would we have any use for Claxton here?
I don't know his game very well, but maybe as a secondary piece of a trade. I don't think he'd move the needle as a primary piece because what we need is a facilitator and that doesn't appear to be a big part of his game, with <2 assists per game. He also doesn't take many 3pt shots, which is something we need.
I caught the Wembanyama highlights this morning. He's going to be a problem. Out of all the stuff he does, his movement and ball-handling might be the most impressive [and that's acknowledging he's a 7'5"er with easy three-point range].
Looking at the Bulls schedule after this Nets game, I think it's reasonable to assume they go 9-19 over their next 28 games which takes them to an 11-23 record going into their Home and Home with Charlotte Jan 5. And this is without any major injuries, which as Captain Kirk pointed out will really send them spiraling.
From Jan 5 to the Feb 8 trade deadline, they'll go about .500, maybe 7-8.
They've shown to me they're probably slightly worse than the likes of Detroit, Toronto, and Brooklyn. Which puts them firmly in the bottom ten teams of the league. As Bulldog pointed out on Bulls Talk, they can't beat run and gun teams like Detroit, or 3 point heavy teams like Dallas (got lucky against Indiana), so they need to beat old-school half-court teams like Toronto, NYK, Miami, etc. Their margin for error is razor thin currently, and they basically need to lure teams into an ugly brand of basketball to trick them into losing.
A record of 18-31 or thereabouts with such a veteran group together for 3 years, must force AK's hand here to do some changes. Also, an 18-31 record will cause a lot of infighting among the vets, and this thing will start to unravel itself. Can't Lonzo-splain your way out of this one; we're basically on the tier with the Magic, Piston, and Trashtors in the East, fighting for a 10th spot. Which we can maybe get, but the schedule doesn't get sustainably easier until after Jan 3. We're watching a dying star that never shone to bright in the first place here.
Here's a fun one: Zach LaVine is now older than Jimmy Butler was when the Bulls traded him.
The talent differential between a very middling team like Brooklyn and Chicago is staggering. On their merits half of our rotation would probably have difficulty finding any playing time on Brooklyn's roster. Donovan just pulled Craig into the starting lineup, and he's played way above his pay grade. But he wouldn't play at all ahead of DFS, Royce or Cam Johnson and probably wouldn't make the team. The Bulls talent level after the first four or five is comparable to an expansion team. Even if they got a huge haul of draft picks for LaVine ([x] for doubt), I don't see any evidence these guys are good at selecting players and recognizing talent.
The rebuild is gonna be cold, it's gonna be grey, and it's gonna last you for the rest of your life.
Yep that's exactly why I'm doubling down on every second of the Larsa Pippens saga
I am convinced that the Bulls are doomed to not make the playoffs. The owner has doomed them by not getting them any help from the draft because he is a chronic tightwad. The coach has got to go because he does not know what he is doing. He reminds me of Hoiberg, not enough to coach a team to 500. A good coach could put this team at 8th seed if he were to start right now. Reinsdorf only heard the words from Vucevic that the team has more than enough to win against anyone. Now they got to prove it and they really don't have enough unless Vuch, White and DeRozen put up more than 30 points every night with double figures from 4 others on the team. The whole thing could have been resolved if the Bulls pick up either Dinwiddy or Buddy Hield and a scoring shot blocking big for Lavine, Vucevic and Ball. Even if they made the trade to LA with Lavine for Russell and Rui when they were available and picked up an experienced coach, the Bulls would be a 500 team by now. Because of inaction before the trade, we are doomed to watch the Bulls miss the playoff by a little bit just like most teams they lose to. With 4 injured players we still have an open slot. Thanks Jerry, I hope that you sell enough tickets and enough bs to keep bulls fans coming next year back to the see the same team play. Keep showing Michael Jordan era highlights on your Bulls website. Nothing to see here.