YFBB, I had a thought the other day. Since you aren't doing separate post game posts most of the time and you are already making these posts, how about including something to suggest these posts be used as a post game thread?
I thought Ish Smith and Ntilikina were out of the league by now. Also thought Ntilikina was way older than 25. It feels like the Knicks drafted him 15 years ago.
I honestly wouldn't want any of the Hornets players that would be available. Rozier is a solid player but he just replicates Coby does. Hayward is too broke down at this point. Mark Williams would be the only one and I don't think Charlotte would include him in the deal. If they would offer a FRP and some expiring junk, sure
How do we get LaMelo to go all Zac and demand a trade for his brother? Rozier for Lonzo+Carter saves the Dorfs 3M and shaves a year of Rozier's salary off of CHA's books.
Yeah, this is the one place I looked that I could actually see trading for LaVine. I just think there are too many teams with good analytics to really go after him. Maybe the Lakers, because he's certainly better than Cam Reddish, but there young guys are Reddish, Hood-Schifino, and Christie, none of whom are good. I can't envision them giving up Reeves or Vanderbilt. Sixers are another. At his best, he's probably better than Batum, but as a fit in a backcourt of Maxey and Melton (he's not better than either imo), along with Harris and Embiid, I just can't see the justification to add him to that group. A mediocre "grinder" vet like Batum is now is probably a better fit.
So Charlotte. Starts with Heyward. Probably add in a Nick Richards who's 26 with 3 years left when Williams is clearly a very good long-term investment for the team. Then maybe you can get a pick from '26 or something.
I know that not a single person would find that an attractive trade situation, but I do think it keeps them "competitive" this year while allowing them to get out of the contract and still getting something for it.
White - Dosunmu
Caruso - Carter
DeRozan - Heyward
Williams - Heyward - Craig
Vucevic - Drummond - Richards
If they wanted to do the dumb thing they do, they could run this team out and just fight for that last spot. It's absolutely no worse than what they have now. But they'd be able to compete and then "reset" if they wanted, with only Vuc's contract being the bad one.
But they could also continue to be bad and could actually start a rebuild. Caruso, DeRozan, and Hayward all have some sort of value, decreasing in that order. Hell, even Williams could get you something, but I'd probably keep him around just to see if you could get him on a cheap-ish, short contract. Trade Vuc away for whatever. Hell, maybe let him play out the season without Caruso, DeRozan, and Hayward, and maybe he gets big enough numbers to trade during the draft to get a 2nd rounder or something.
As far as Charlotte. Dunno.
Ball
LaVine
Miller
Bridges
Williams
is about the most headcase-y of lineups and the ultimate flashy but not that great of a team, but hell, it might just be fun for the team to play. That's something.
That'd be good, I guess. I mean, it will be interesting to see if the Bulls hold firm for him. I mean, I don't think he's any great shakes, to be honest. He had a great year in basketball playing with people better than him (both in LA and on the National Team), and it will be interesting to see if it continues.
I'm in the same boat. If you get him you probably keep him for the rest of the season and I'd be interested in seeing him outside of that specific LA situation. Can he be more of a ball-handler?
Someone posted that they'd calculated the effect of Detroit acquiring Zach LaVine and posted an image of Blake Griffin. Which is both an explanation of how these things happen and a warning that they usually don't work... yet also explains why they're tempting to teams like Charlotte. We might extend it another step as the Bulls probably WERE that team too when they acquired Vucevic, and are now hoping that some dim light and a snappy slogan might help them sucker someone else into it. And it still might work!
Dec 7, 2023·edited Dec 7, 2023Liked by your friendly BullsBlogger
I think LaMelo getting hurt again probably kills this possibility. I figure they just ride out another rough season, because there's no point in trading for Zach if LaMelo isn't playing.
Donovan should give the bench more minutes. You shouldn't wear out your starters until they get injured. He has some good young talent but there is more to developing a player than sending them to the G league. Maxey from the Sixers did not get that good playing 1 to 3 minutes a game.
The starters averaged 33 minutes and the entire bench averaged over 10. None of the starters hit 38 minutes. Only two of the active bench got less than 5 minutes.
Ayo, Drummond, and Craig all got in the teens to 20s for minutes and Carter was just a bit behind.
It would be nice to rest DDR a bit more, but he was the only one scoring. Take him down to 30 minutes and sub any of the bench and it would have gone from an 11 point game to ~6 points which goes from being a clear win to being a close game that could easily swing the wrong way.
As mismatched as Chicago's roster is, it's hard to believe someone was pursuing a rational plan when putting together the Charlotte Hornets. I'm aware they're missing Ball but Gordon Hayward is 33 years old. They've had him for four seasons now. I figured at some point they would include him in a 3 team megadeal and maybe they tried but he's now on the verge of quietly expiring and I don't understand what he's still doing there. Had a great game today, probably plays too many minutes (again, why do that?)
Washington and Rozier were 2-18 from 3, to be fair Caruso was fucking insane on defense tonight. I don't know if Coby made a single shot at the rim, but took a few charges and told reporters his goal was to have more than Alex Caruso this season. Pat Williams with a pretty crazily effective 8 point game too. He's getting his hands on the basketball more than I can ever remember, whether it's help defense or in the paint or in the lane. DeMar's midrange game numbers are slowly climbing back up. Crazy that after this series of games he's now shooting 37% from 3.
Was argued at one point that Billy Donovan lost the team but has Steve Clifford ever really had a team's support? I'm not really getting why they hired him back or why he's been employed almost continually at one of the most rare jobs in the world for the last decade. He just seems to be yelling most of the time.
If the Lakers are giving up Reaves and a FRP pick, I'd consider that a win. That's been included in pretty much every hypothetical Lakers trade that I've seen. A lot are including a pick swap and Rui, as well.
This is one of those broken clock scenarios where AKME's extreme reticence to do anything, er, patience is to their benefit.
If AKME don't get what they want for Zach, they simply won't make a move. If LA actively wants Zach (and I think LeBron and Klutch really want him there), then they'll have to meet AKME's value for Zach.
The worst part of getting a good value for Zach is that it will make AKME think their tactics are sound.
I hope not, Zach should swoop back in the last week of December and immediately trigger a tailspin, it would be hilarious. Maybe as hilarious as Billy Donovan salvaging his job and rep by telling his best player to stay the fuck away.
This just goes to show how much his teammates hate his fucking guts.
This could be construed as a silver lining; AK apparently leaked he wants to see how the team plays without Zach. I take him at his word on that given his death grip on "continuity"... Whereas we as fans might be dismayed he wants to see the team play without Zach before making further moves, because that could mean he doesn't make any further moves- this gives him weeks of time to assess the Zach-less Bulls to make other moves
DLo, Rui, Reaves, Vincent, Prince, Hood-Schifino, Hayes
will be possible.
That'd be my hope. Get back Reaves and Rui (who are probably worth moderate FRPs) and unload Vuc (3 years) for DLo (expiring).
It very well might be that the Lakers won't take Vuc back, but I'd push hard on that. If they won't, a deal could be
Zach, Craig, Taylor
for
Rui, Reaves, DLo, JHS
===========
If we're getting back DLo or Vincent, I'd try to immediately send them to a third team. I'd be willing to ship Reaves out if we can get a quality first for him.
I like this thought process if it must be the Lakers, it seems WAS and POR did well on flipping Paul and Holiday after aquiring them. Gives the Bulls 3 weeks to flip a lot of assets. We'd have no starting center but why not have fun with Hayes and Drummond for a few months
Again though, I'm choosing to discuss this shift change in Bulls basketball as in an average GM is making the moves. To just say "AK sucks and is going to screw it up", there's basically no point in even discussing the Bulls until he's fired then. I'm going to maintain hope he gets it right; I'm going to give AK one last shot this season even though I was one of the first to the AK Sucks bandwagon over a season ago
So do we genuinely believe the Bulls choosing to sit Zach for the next month is in fact because a trade has already been agreed upon (most likely with the Lakers) and that team is asking Zach not to be played until the trade can be executed?
Maybe because they saw him loafing after how many games and he can't even bother putting in a brisk jog during the Boston game and the Bulls just had enough and told him to lol sorry, this is from my new fan fiction "Karni and Me: Confessions of a Basketball Executive"
"It's funny to me to see all the narratives that people run with. It is what it is. I go out there and put my heart on for Chicago whenever I put that jersey on. When I get back out there, I'll continue to do that."
[Editor's Note: Zach LaVine has drawn 1 charge in his entire NBA career. Bro you're not Kobe Fucking Bryant lol]
On Thursday, LaVine's tune sounded much different than it had the previous month, when he dodged questions about whether he desired to be traded elsewhere after the team's 4-7 start. After multiple reports surfaced in November stating that both LaVine and the Bulls were open to exploring a trade, LaVine expressed his frustration with the team not winning and referred to his agent, Rich Paul, to speak on his behalf regarding trade discussions.
However, while LaVine has missed the past three games, the Bulls have put together their first three-game winning streak of the season. Their offense has produced a season-high 32 assists in two of those three victories, and the team is showing some fight after a disastrous start to the season.
"Whatever may have sparked it -- if it was me off the court and that's a narrative that people want to run with it -- we've won three games, I'm happy for it," LaVine said Thursday. "Hopefully I can get this foot right to get back out there and help my guys. I've been in the locker room every day and out here training trying to get back out there to help everybody out because it's fun when you're winning.
"This last three-game winning streak shows what we were trying to do at training camp."
YFBB, I had a thought the other day. Since you aren't doing separate post game posts most of the time and you are already making these posts, how about including something to suggest these posts be used as a post game thread?
sure. I was thinking the chat would just keep going but that doesn't look to be working that way in practice
Sweet. The chats are good for in game reactions, but not as good for longer, in depth discussions.
Agree with thekiltedwonder on this one. The chats are good for in-game, but I'd prefer something a little more robust for post-game conversations.
Gordon Hayward, Terry Rozier, Ish Smith, Frank Ntilikina...man, this roster is full of guys I hadn't thought about in years
I thought Ish Smith and Ntilikina were out of the league by now. Also thought Ntilikina was way older than 25. It feels like the Knicks drafted him 15 years ago.
I think I have recommended roughly 10000000 trades involving Ish Smith but we are somehow the only team in the league that he has never been on.
No man is an island
I honestly wouldn't want any of the Hornets players that would be available. Rozier is a solid player but he just replicates Coby does. Hayward is too broke down at this point. Mark Williams would be the only one and I don't think Charlotte would include him in the deal. If they would offer a FRP and some expiring junk, sure
How do we get LaMelo to go all Zac and demand a trade for his brother? Rozier for Lonzo+Carter saves the Dorfs 3M and shaves a year of Rozier's salary off of CHA's books.
Quite the opposite.
Lonzo's contract is covered by insurance at 80%. So his actual cost to Jerry Reinsdorf is only like .2*$20M * 2years = $8M.
Even though his contracted amount has ~$40M left, the Bulls are only going to pay $8M of that.
Rozier is owed about $70M, and if they traded for him, the Bulls would be paying for all $70M of that.
Damn I forgot about that!
Yeah, this is the one place I looked that I could actually see trading for LaVine. I just think there are too many teams with good analytics to really go after him. Maybe the Lakers, because he's certainly better than Cam Reddish, but there young guys are Reddish, Hood-Schifino, and Christie, none of whom are good. I can't envision them giving up Reeves or Vanderbilt. Sixers are another. At his best, he's probably better than Batum, but as a fit in a backcourt of Maxey and Melton (he's not better than either imo), along with Harris and Embiid, I just can't see the justification to add him to that group. A mediocre "grinder" vet like Batum is now is probably a better fit.
So Charlotte. Starts with Heyward. Probably add in a Nick Richards who's 26 with 3 years left when Williams is clearly a very good long-term investment for the team. Then maybe you can get a pick from '26 or something.
I know that not a single person would find that an attractive trade situation, but I do think it keeps them "competitive" this year while allowing them to get out of the contract and still getting something for it.
White - Dosunmu
Caruso - Carter
DeRozan - Heyward
Williams - Heyward - Craig
Vucevic - Drummond - Richards
If they wanted to do the dumb thing they do, they could run this team out and just fight for that last spot. It's absolutely no worse than what they have now. But they'd be able to compete and then "reset" if they wanted, with only Vuc's contract being the bad one.
But they could also continue to be bad and could actually start a rebuild. Caruso, DeRozan, and Hayward all have some sort of value, decreasing in that order. Hell, even Williams could get you something, but I'd probably keep him around just to see if you could get him on a cheap-ish, short contract. Trade Vuc away for whatever. Hell, maybe let him play out the season without Caruso, DeRozan, and Hayward, and maybe he gets big enough numbers to trade during the draft to get a 2nd rounder or something.
As far as Charlotte. Dunno.
Ball
LaVine
Miller
Bridges
Williams
is about the most headcase-y of lineups and the ultimate flashy but not that great of a team, but hell, it might just be fun for the team to play. That's something.
FWIW, I've seen several trade proposals from Laker's writers and almost all of them say they'd have to give up Reeves to get Lavine.
That'd be good, I guess. I mean, it will be interesting to see if the Bulls hold firm for him. I mean, I don't think he's any great shakes, to be honest. He had a great year in basketball playing with people better than him (both in LA and on the National Team), and it will be interesting to see if it continues.
I'm in the same boat. If you get him you probably keep him for the rest of the season and I'd be interested in seeing him outside of that specific LA situation. Can he be more of a ball-handler?
Someone posted that they'd calculated the effect of Detroit acquiring Zach LaVine and posted an image of Blake Griffin. Which is both an explanation of how these things happen and a warning that they usually don't work... yet also explains why they're tempting to teams like Charlotte. We might extend it another step as the Bulls probably WERE that team too when they acquired Vucevic, and are now hoping that some dim light and a snappy slogan might help them sucker someone else into it. And it still might work!
I think LaMelo getting hurt again probably kills this possibility. I figure they just ride out another rough season, because there's no point in trading for Zach if LaMelo isn't playing.
That team was so far away looking
Donovan should give the bench more minutes. You shouldn't wear out your starters until they get injured. He has some good young talent but there is more to developing a player than sending them to the G league. Maxey from the Sixers did not get that good playing 1 to 3 minutes a game.
How many minutes would you want them to get?
The starters averaged 33 minutes and the entire bench averaged over 10. None of the starters hit 38 minutes. Only two of the active bench got less than 5 minutes.
Ayo, Drummond, and Craig all got in the teens to 20s for minutes and Carter was just a bit behind.
It would be nice to rest DDR a bit more, but he was the only one scoring. Take him down to 30 minutes and sub any of the bench and it would have gone from an 11 point game to ~6 points which goes from being a clear win to being a close game that could easily swing the wrong way.
As mismatched as Chicago's roster is, it's hard to believe someone was pursuing a rational plan when putting together the Charlotte Hornets. I'm aware they're missing Ball but Gordon Hayward is 33 years old. They've had him for four seasons now. I figured at some point they would include him in a 3 team megadeal and maybe they tried but he's now on the verge of quietly expiring and I don't understand what he's still doing there. Had a great game today, probably plays too many minutes (again, why do that?)
Washington and Rozier were 2-18 from 3, to be fair Caruso was fucking insane on defense tonight. I don't know if Coby made a single shot at the rim, but took a few charges and told reporters his goal was to have more than Alex Caruso this season. Pat Williams with a pretty crazily effective 8 point game too. He's getting his hands on the basketball more than I can ever remember, whether it's help defense or in the paint or in the lane. DeMar's midrange game numbers are slowly climbing back up. Crazy that after this series of games he's now shooting 37% from 3.
Was argued at one point that Billy Donovan lost the team but has Steve Clifford ever really had a team's support? I'm not really getting why they hired him back or why he's been employed almost continually at one of the most rare jobs in the world for the last decade. He just seems to be yelling most of the time.
Turns out Billy and Vuc don't have quite the tank-commander powers some hoped they might have
Bulls announced Zach is out another 3-4 weeks
❤️
At this point just be honest and say the man is never wearing a Bulls jersey again. Everyone knows what's going on.
He'll be conveniently 100% healthy on January 15.
Seems to strongly suggest they've got a deal in place with the Lakers. Hope they're spending the next month figuring out a 3rd team to take DLo.
yeah this is pretty embarrassingly transparent, Shams on his gambling show saying "ironically" this takes him to Jan 15
by my understanding the only team that needs to wait until Jan 15 is the Lakers. And that package from them stinks.
so either there truly is no other team trying to beat that offer, or AK is getting steamrolled by Klutch into accepting that offer
If the Lakers are giving up Reaves and a FRP pick, I'd consider that a win. That's been included in pretty much every hypothetical Lakers trade that I've seen. A lot are including a pick swap and Rui, as well.
I guess I shouldn't so easily dismiss another thought-to-be-overhyped Lakers role player like I did with Caruso
I don't think they have offered Reaves though, why would they if there's no other bidders heh
This is one of those broken clock scenarios where AKME's extreme reticence to do anything, er, patience is to their benefit.
If AKME don't get what they want for Zach, they simply won't make a move. If LA actively wants Zach (and I think LeBron and Klutch really want him there), then they'll have to meet AKME's value for Zach.
The worst part of getting a good value for Zach is that it will make AKME think their tactics are sound.
I hope not, Zach should swoop back in the last week of December and immediately trigger a tailspin, it would be hilarious. Maybe as hilarious as Billy Donovan salvaging his job and rep by telling his best player to stay the fuck away.
This just goes to show how much his teammates hate his fucking guts.
This could be construed as a silver lining; AK apparently leaked he wants to see how the team plays without Zach. I take him at his word on that given his death grip on "continuity"... Whereas we as fans might be dismayed he wants to see the team play without Zach before making further moves, because that could mean he doesn't make any further moves- this gives him weeks of time to assess the Zach-less Bulls to make other moves
On January 15
Zach, Vuc, Craig, Terry Tailor
for
DLo, Rui, Reaves, Vincent, Prince, Hood-Schifino, Hayes
will be possible.
That'd be my hope. Get back Reaves and Rui (who are probably worth moderate FRPs) and unload Vuc (3 years) for DLo (expiring).
It very well might be that the Lakers won't take Vuc back, but I'd push hard on that. If they won't, a deal could be
Zach, Craig, Taylor
for
Rui, Reaves, DLo, JHS
===========
If we're getting back DLo or Vincent, I'd try to immediately send them to a third team. I'd be willing to ship Reaves out if we can get a quality first for him.
I like this thought process if it must be the Lakers, it seems WAS and POR did well on flipping Paul and Holiday after aquiring them. Gives the Bulls 3 weeks to flip a lot of assets. We'd have no starting center but why not have fun with Hayes and Drummond for a few months
3 weeks is not nearly enough time for this decision group
Again though, I'm choosing to discuss this shift change in Bulls basketball as in an average GM is making the moves. To just say "AK sucks and is going to screw it up", there's basically no point in even discussing the Bulls until he's fired then. I'm going to maintain hope he gets it right; I'm going to give AK one last shot this season even though I was one of the first to the AK Sucks bandwagon over a season ago
FYI DLo is not expiring, he has a $18.5M player option. Maybe they can tell him his foot hurts too and he'd opt out
Oof, that's not good.
So do we genuinely believe the Bulls choosing to sit Zach for the next month is in fact because a trade has already been agreed upon (most likely with the Lakers) and that team is asking Zach not to be played until the trade can be executed?
I do. Maybe not that explicit but that's the general motivation
Maybe because they saw him loafing after how many games and he can't even bother putting in a brisk jog during the Boston game and the Bulls just had enough and told him to lol sorry, this is from my new fan fiction "Karni and Me: Confessions of a Basketball Executive"
WROTE A POST ABOUT IT
https://open.substack.com/pub/blogabull/p/is-a-lavine-trade-to-the-lakers-inevitable?r=2bo&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
ALSO SPRACH ZACH:
"It's funny to me to see all the narratives that people run with. It is what it is. I go out there and put my heart on for Chicago whenever I put that jersey on. When I get back out there, I'll continue to do that."
[Editor's Note: Zach LaVine has drawn 1 charge in his entire NBA career. Bro you're not Kobe Fucking Bryant lol]
On Thursday, LaVine's tune sounded much different than it had the previous month, when he dodged questions about whether he desired to be traded elsewhere after the team's 4-7 start. After multiple reports surfaced in November stating that both LaVine and the Bulls were open to exploring a trade, LaVine expressed his frustration with the team not winning and referred to his agent, Rich Paul, to speak on his behalf regarding trade discussions.
However, while LaVine has missed the past three games, the Bulls have put together their first three-game winning streak of the season. Their offense has produced a season-high 32 assists in two of those three victories, and the team is showing some fight after a disastrous start to the season.
"Whatever may have sparked it -- if it was me off the court and that's a narrative that people want to run with it -- we've won three games, I'm happy for it," LaVine said Thursday. "Hopefully I can get this foot right to get back out there and help my guys. I've been in the locker room every day and out here training trying to get back out there to help everybody out because it's fun when you're winning.
"This last three-game winning streak shows what we were trying to do at training camp."