59 Comments
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John Miller's avatar

Think that you couldn't be more wrong. Smart to trade for Claxton and sign Collins. Not enough centers to go around. Kept the contracts for both Powell and Collins short and reasonable.

your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

yup we'll see if he can flip them, he will be right and I will say so

TC's avatar

Collins is a guy that shouldnt get much more than vet minimum. Claxton has moving in the wrong direction for the last two seasons....hopefully it was just a temporary injury blip

Thomas's avatar

Zach Collins's contract is only acceptable if he's traded and the salary is used for ballast. Otherwise it's real money for bad player who also doesn't even play

John Miller's avatar

Collins is just the type of center who will accept being a backup center and play eight minutes a game.

Thomas's avatar

*if* he plays, he played 10 games last year

SweetBeezus's avatar

The Zach Collins (lack of) availability narrative isn't unfounded, but it's a bit overblown. He had some difficult injury years early on in his career, but did settle in to play 63, 69, 64, and 62 games the previous four seasons before last year.

The taking a charge injury in preseason was flukey, but anything to do with the foot is concerning for a big man. Pretty rare/odd a toe sprain requires surgery and takes you out for the season like that, so I get the skepticism for sure.

Thomas's avatar

I'm not sure playing 60 some games for a guy who rarely cracks 20mpg is a good sign either

Captain Kirk's Tooth Gap's avatar

"Pretty rare/odd a toe sprain requires surgery and takes you out for the season like that"

Not when you're working with the Bulls medical staff!

Diabolo's avatar

Sure, but that sounds more like a minimum contract player than what he will earn on this contract.

Captain Kirk's Tooth Gap's avatar

I'm not sure I'd say Collins is a bad player who also doesn't play. I'd say he's a bad player because he doesn't play. When he's healthy, he's actually a more than serviceable backup. You just can't rely on him to regularly be healthy.

TheMoon's avatar

It's not like it's literally impossible to win a title under the Reinsdorfs. They came pretty close 15 years ago. But every franchise has a "luck bar" hovering over them which indicates how much luck they need to get a contender. And the qualities of ownership/management push that bar up or down accordingly. Graham can't work the margins. Is that catastrophic? No, but it nudges that luck bar higher, and it's already pretty high due to Reinsdorfian contingencies.

Waveland14's avatar

This is pretty much it in a nutshell. But the good news is there's a good chance we got very lucky with Wilson. If he "hits," everything else changes for the trajectory of the franchise.

I've been saying the same thing about PWill for the past 4 years -- the entire AKME legacy ended up on his shoulders and had he developed into an All Star franchise cornerstone we'd be living in a very different reality at the moment.

Gorditadogg's avatar

I am trying to stay positive. I tell myself to trust that Graham and Co. know what they are doing. That Claxton is better than his metrics suggest and that Splitter has the cheat code to get him back to 2023-4 goodness.

I am happy to have a legitimate scorer and remind myself that 33 is the new 27. I am excited of course to see what Wilson can do and am hoping that Buzelis and Giddey can make another jump, and that Dillingham and Miller can show they belong in the league.

Most of all I hope that Bulls can put to good use the $3.8 million in cash money we got for this year's 2nd rounders.

I tell myself to be patient. Graham has plans for that last roster spot. He extended Collins instead of signing him into the room for a good reason. I know he is 100% transparent but big things are coming, the clues are there. I just need to be patient and stay positive.

your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

It's not like it'd take much to start to win me over, as I'm talking about marginal moves. Like if he traded Okoro to the Lakers for a second round pick and Knecht and Hardy (and ate the money on either of them or Dillingham) that's a low stakes but positive move

Gorditadogg's avatar

You just want to see him get used to waiving bad players don't you.

your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

yes! break him of 'roster spot full' Bullsian logic

jbcardsFan's avatar

Didn't you just say taking on bad contracts for 2nd round picks isn't a good move?

TheArtistJB's avatar

It’s not lost on me how much emphasis Michael placed on the fact that AK didn’t communicate with the rest of the organization.

His primary concern wasn’t that Arturas was doing a crap job…it was that he didn’t involve Mr. “Aw Gee Shucks I Guess I Won The ‘93 Finals” in his decisions.

It’s hard to blame Graham for allowing Pax and Michael to influence decisions on the second round picks and Collins. Any refusal to collaborate would have made him look bad in their petty little eyes.

I’m begging everyone to stop falling for Michael’s press conferences. It doesn’t matter that he apologizes to fans and says the right things about what he’ll allow his GM to do. His actions are what matters…and they tell us he’s a cheapskate who favors relationships with his buddies over doing everything it takes to win.

I think Graham is doing a solid job overall. I love the Caleb and Swain picks, I’m a fan of the Powell signing, and I’m even cool with the Claxton trade. I think we all just need to accept that anyone who runs this team is going to be working with one arm tied behind their back because a billionaire’s son and adopted son can’t stop interfering. As long as the GM/President doesn’t suck like AK, we’ll have a chance.

Jaina's avatar

Here's what I think. When AKME were first hired it seemed like they were attempting to make good moves and swinging for the fences, and got everyone's hopes up that indeed the Reinsdorfs were going to let these guys actually do stuff. Except when it came to Boylen... that took far too long lol. But anyway then they didn't make any trades for like at least 2 years.

This time now Graham has made some good moves and then some typical Bulls moves. I think there's still reason to be cautiously optimistic that he's ramping up, I don't feel like there was some blockbuster the bulls missed out on... most of the moves were decent and also didn't commit long years which gives a little time to figure out how the rookies will pan out before doing anything else.

TC's avatar

C grade for me. I'm not giving him credit for Wilson...that was an extremely obvious pick that any of us could make. If Swain hits, then he gets props from me. They left a lot of draft trades on the table that could have landed another decent prospect like Carr. Also trading #38 to save JR some pennies is a facepalm. I didn't care about the late 2nd rounder but you can get value at 38. Not to mention you could trade 38 and take a bad salary on to get in the late 20s.

And yea all that cap space should have been used to get more draft capital. At first I was ok with the Claxton trade but the more i think about it, it feels like wasted opportunity. I get that we need some decent vets to not be totally ass next year but Claxton has been mediocre the last couple years and he is getting paid quite a bit. I would have been fine rolling with Smith and Richards to be honest. Collins signing was wack to me, i get the whole future trade candidate idea but i've seen that kind of talk before.

I feel a little more hopeful than the AKME years but i'm not loving Graham's process so far

Waveland14's avatar

I've seen other people say we could have traded up to get someone like Carr. How? Like what trade assets did we have other than sending a future protected 1st? The #25 pick in this draft was likely worth more than both our 2nds and some future 2nds combined.

"They left a lot of draft trades on the table" is something you can't know unless you're working in the Bulls front office or another NBA front office. The only one we can probably deduce was the potential to trade up to #31 had we desired, since that involved trading #39 and a future 2nd (and cash).

Bullini's avatar

Knicks ultimately got 5 2nd round picks for trading the 24th pick used to select Carr (plus the draft rights to a 2024 second rounder) Maybe too steep, but we could’ve let them dump salary or take one of our cheaper players.

Waveland14's avatar

I'm not sure 5 2nd round picks would have been too steep (honestly I'd be okay with that), or what specific dumps/players we could have swapped -- but in a vacuum you may be correct. My point is that the draft doesn't occur in a vacuum, and it's very likely that at the time the Knicks initially traded down they were not calling teams looking for a haul of 2nd rounders or player-for-player swaps. They were just following their draft board letting that guide them. There are literally minutes between each pick and this stuff is negotiated at lightning speed. "24-for-25-and-cash" was the simple and elegant move at the moment it was executed.

And we don't know if Graham even liked Carr as a prospect! But either way, I'm just trying to put an end to the "XYZ deals were on the table for us" narrative, as until someone from the Bulls comes out and says "we were offered this and declined" or "we offered this and were rejected and wouldn't go higher" then we have no idea what was actually available to us. I'd like to judge Graham on empirical facts, not speculation.

MikeDC's avatar

Given that the Bulls themselves attach no value at all to second rounders, giving up infinite seconds wouldn't be too steep for them.

Even properly valued, I'd always be willing to trade a bunch of seconds and take money for guys I actually evaluated as good prospects. And Carr and Tarris Reed were such guys.

Graham is supposed to be some kind of super scout. It's pointless if he isn't going to go get guys he likes.

your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

unless he told Michael Reinsdorf he could find guys undrafted that other teams pick (and pay) at #38...I guess that is still pointless to us but not for building equity with ownership

MikeDC's avatar

Well Jaylin Sellers can walk home, Ive seen enough of him.

Trigga T's avatar

#38, 2-3 other seconds and Leonard Miller(who looks like a solid cheap young rotational player could have gotten it done

Waveland14's avatar

I am not sure what to make of the headline... obviously facetious at some level, but to what degree did yfbb ever actually have faith in Graham's tactical prowess?

The fact is, there is zero verifiable evidence that Bryson Graham ever made a smart tactical decision in his career as he was never the lead decision maker in any previous role. Everything about him was hearsay and the entirety of his lead executive resume is what we've seen over the past month. His previous team's front office seems to still be able to wheel and deal without him. (Though my feelings on their judgement are mixed)

But I'm definitely willing to give Graham the benefit of the doubt for now, at least in terms of judging him on the curve of "competent within Reinsdorfian constraints."

We could definitely look back on this period next summer and say "oh, I see what he was doing with those initial moves, now that he's flipped some contracts, gained assets, found some gems that needed polishing, etc." There's also a chance we'll have soured on him or feel a mix of ambivalence and frustration over missed opportunities. I think it's just way too early to put any kind of grade on him as this is the beginning of a long turnaround and even best-case scenarios don't have us truly contending for at least a few years. After this season's trade deadline we'll probably start to have enough evidence to understand what our new lead basketball exec is all about.

Gorditadogg's avatar

Absolutely! Just tell yourself to be patient and stay positive :)

your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

it's true, I didn't actually have faith that Graham was some boy genius, but saying so was the Simpsons quote

Waveland14's avatar

I'm embarrassed to admit that I missed the Simpsons reference. I think it threw me because I see Graham as more of a Smithers at the Reinsdorf Nuclear Plant (which Michael pronounces as "nucular").

your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

I suppose the fans are Mr Burns in this reference? I dunno it's not very well thought out after it popped in my head

your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

After the Summer League TV interview it's a clear vocal tic of Graham to say "excellent question". This doesn't bother me, what does is that i could picture Michael Reinsdorf in the interview really liking that lol

Gorditadogg's avatar

I just read this from Joe Cowley (he wrote it on July 3). Apparently this is it! What we've seen so far is the entirety of Graham's master plan. At least for the next two years. As Cowley explains, realistically there was nothing Graham could have done with his $50 million of cap space money to improve the team's prospects.

"Bryson Graham has a script. And while it’s still very early, it has been consistent. When he was hired to replace Karnisovas a couple of months ago, Graham stressed the importance of the draft and of hitting on both first-round picks as the foundation.

And every move he has made in free agency after that has supported the vision he articulated. No. 4 pick Caleb Wilson and No. 15 pick Dailyn Swain have a two-year window to show what they are and what they can become. Sprinkle in whatever Graham adds from the 2027 draft, and that will be the base of the Bulls’ rebuild.

So while some fans might feel underwhelmed by the Bulls’ moves so far, this was the script. There was very little the Bulls realistically could have added to try to shorten their rebuild without winding up nestled between mediocrity and hell — again.

For critics of that or those unable to understand the Bulls’ plan, quiet on the set."

your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

As bad as Cowley is at being a sourced journalist, he's even worse having opinions on the NBA

Thomas's avatar

he's lucky the bulls are so poorly run so instinctively hating them hits 80% of the time

thekiltedwonder's avatar

I haven't read the article, but my takeaway from the bit you quoted is that the signed players will be used to upgrade the Bulls' draft options. He was balancing getting players that help the team now, with being able to use them in trades to improve their draft situation this year.

I could totally be wrong and am reading that quote in a vacuum, but that's how it read to me. Then again, maybe it's these rose colored glasses I'm wearing.

Gorditadogg's avatar

Yes, I read it the same way. The prospects that Graham wants to develop are mostly at SF and PF, plus Giddey at PG if you consider him still in need of developing. So Graham wanted to fill in the C and SG spots with veterans that could support the youngsters for the next two years.

I can't really tell though whether this is coming from Graham, who in his 100% fully transparent way told Cowley this, or whether this is just Cowley's vision of Graham's vision. He did say Graham has a script, but not whether he's actually seen it.

your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

another thing about Cowley is he's only semi-literate. So this 'script' verbiage is just as likely to be a metaphor that he lost track of

your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

my thinking is that a competent GM can do one, but a really impressive one could do both (and not require a training wheels year)

Thomas's avatar

We could have taken bad contracts into space for draft picks like the julius randle deal

Gorditadogg's avatar

Sure. Or traded vets for younger players with upside. Or made offers to sign good young players at SG or C.

Thomas's avatar

I actually don't mind Norm Powell at all. This team is going to be desperate for shooting and he was the best shooter available. We don't need to be young at every position. It's fine to have vets that make development easier. It's really the moves at center and burning 2nd round picks for cash that bother me.

Gorditadogg's avatar

Yeah, I don't mind Powell as a placeholder. I just am disappointed that all we wanted to do is sign placeholders. If we really wanted to get the best shooter available it wouldn't have been him.

TheMoon's avatar

What does it mean for "development" to be a strength of a GM?

your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

identifying and executing on player development paths, the first bit I suppose is simply scouting

MikeDC's avatar

It means he's going to take credit for all of his player's hard work.

your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

I'd rather that than putting all failures on the player like AK with Pat (justified, but still)

jbcardsFan's avatar

Until they know they have a possible star on the roster, I'm all for preserving flexibility and ensuring yourself of lottery picks, even in this new lottery system.

They have a ton of flexibility next offseason and decent players to trade for some assets at the trade deadline.

Selling the 2nd round picks was a black mark on Graham. Everything else was alright. Not great, but not bad.

Next offseason they'll have to figure out what to do with Buzelis. Do you extend him or trade him? I don't think an extension is a given. I think there's a real possibility he's moved as a dump or bigger trade.

This team is likely 3 years at least from being a playoffs team, unless Wilson is on an accelerated timeline like Flagg, Harper, Edgecombe, and Kneuppel. Since we have no idea what he'll look like this season, I'm good with evaluate mode in Year 1 of Graham. Keep flexibility and be in the lottery. Bigger decisions next year. Don't make the mistake in 2021 that AKME did.

MikeDC's avatar

I think you can boil down good GMing to 1) Add as many assets as you can and 2) Use them well. So far, I think Graham is doing a shit job at both. The arguments I hear to the contrary seem like wishful thinking to me.

Really, the only thing I see going for us is Caleb. He might be good enough to save everyone's ass.

MikeDC's avatar

I've said it back before the draft and after, but I think the Bulls should basically let Caleb play the 3 and clear the way for him to have the ball in his hands as much as possible. Seeing how he plays is reinforcing that to me. He's got superstar potential and he's the rare player that the Bulls should just gear everything toward putting the ball in his hands. Maximum development of his handle, decision-making, and skills.

He should basically be like Giannis was, the de-facto point guard.

Ron's avatar

Wilson might just be a dude