In the spirit of NFL Mock Draft season where people specify Preferred (the mock draft you want to happen) vs. Predicted (the mock draft you think will happen), is your Accidental Tank scenario Preferred or Predicted? It almost sounded preferred in the pod but that doesn't make much sense to me.
Alright, I refuse to be hopeless. So I did some digging around and thinking. Only a couple of teams not in our conference... stood out too me as likely willing to shake things up a bit. Portland and possibly New Orleans. The trade I came too is this:
Zach Lavine
Marko Simonovic
for
Anfernee Simons
Jusuf Nurkic
Salaries essentially match. One team or the other maaay have to throw in a pick to seal the deal. One could argue.
Anyways... The Bulls get younger at two positions. Simons still has a slight chance to blossom into a star. He can replace the issues caused at PG by Lonzo's injury. Simon's stats last year aren't too dissimilar from Lavine's. Other than rebounding. (But he is a PG/ combo guard so.)
Nurkic is comparable to Vuc. You take a small hit on the offensive side and gain some on the defensive side. PLUS some shot blocking! While getting younger. Allowing the Bulls to comfortably be able to let an aging, non needle moving big walk in free agency. Not do a complete rebuild. And still allowing them the flexibility to decide what paths they want to take with Demar, Caruso, and P-Will moving forward.
The Blazers get another star veteran to pair with Lillard and Grant in Lavine. Someone they can transition to marketing and building around/with if and when Lillard retires. Or if they decide to trade Dame down the road. Dame and Zach have some experience playing together from the Olympic team. This trade also lets the Blazers move off the somewhat injury prone Nurkic. With the Bulls assuming the risk. While Zach gets to move back closer to home.
And realistically the Reinsdorf's may sign off on this one. Since the salaries match. They wont go over the cap. Still get their precious revenue share! Arturas/Eversley get their wish. To not tear it all down and do a complete rebuild. Donovan is happy because he doesn't have to coach a rebuild this late in his coaching career. When he just signed his secret extension.
Some food for thought... To keep the discussion going. Have a great weekend everyone!
Would Simons actually help replace Lonzo's production? I'm not familiar with him, but he's listed as a shooting guard and his stats seem to support that.
From what I can see, as a lower cost plug and play replacement for Zach, I like him. I'm not sure the Blazers would be interested though, since Zach's number are such a small upgrade over Simon's this year. Unless they think this year's numbers are a fluke and then I could buy it.
Suppose I could've worded it better. He could replace Lonzo's position. And alot of Lavine's scoring production. See him as more of PG/combo guard. I think Zach's later 2nd half numbers(when he was more recovered from the injury) are much more closer to his real production levels. Which I'd assume the Blazers know. Then that version of Lavine is a solid upgrade over Simons in their eyes.
Another reason they may do it, is Shaedon Sharpe. He flashed a TON of potential this year. Was a high lottery pick for them. And they may want to
accelerate seeing just how good he is/can be. Playing the same position as Simons. And they can get Simons off their books. Lavine and Sharpe both have the size to play and guard 2's and 3's. Simons doesn't in my opinion. So the Blazers could have a Lillard, Lavine, Sharpe, Grant, Player X, lineup. Which has a ton of potenial...
I've been noodling on Blazers trades myself, but the Bulls would be big losers here unless they came away with a LOT of draft capital. I see why the Blazers would do it, but think we'd all agree Simons is a downgrade from Zach, and Nurkic is at best a push with Vooch (but I'd say a downgrade). So the Bulls are getting demonstrably worse and not getting a haul of picks, I don't see why the they would do it.
I do think Dame wants to win now, though, and the Bulls have ongoing protected rights to the Blazers 1st, which kind of junks up what they can do trade-wise, so I do think they are an interesting partner. But I'm much more inclined to ship DeMar, and I think he could pair with Dame pretty well.
Pie in the sky: Bulls send DeMar, Caruso and the protected 1st trade rights; Blazers send Sharpe AND Simons and maybe the Knicks pick? Or maybe Sharpe and Blazers 1st this year, and maybe a future 1st. To be fair, this seems probably too much in the Bulls favor, but damn it would be sweet to come away with Sharpe. Assuming he's untouchable...
More realistic: Bulls send DeMar, Caruso, and Blazers 1st rights. Blazers send: Simons, Nas Little, and the Knicks pick this year.
Why the Blazers do it: Dame, DeMar, Caruso, Grant (assuming he re-signs), Nurk, and Sharpe is a pretty talented base to build from. Maybe they can make a move or two more and be a playoff team for Dame's twilight run.
Why the Bulls do it: Bulls probably get worse, but they get younger, add a 1st round pick in a plus draft, and save about $8m in cap room. It's not a full tear down, but a pivot towards building a modern NBA team. I think you could bring Vooch back and still be in that play-in mix, or maybe go a different direction at center and really mix things up. (Sidenote: it would be very Bullsian to bring in another combo guard as leverage in negotiating with Coby.) I think Simons / Coby / LaVine could work as a three guard lineup (which Billy loves so much!), or one of Coby or Simons could be the 6th man depending how all else shakes out.
Maybe I'm undervaluing Lavine's trade market potential. And overvaluing Simons as a player and his still having a small chance at a higher ceiling to come. Could the deal be done with Portland also sending back a lightly protected 1st? Then the Bulls have a bigger reason to consider making the move.
Although my preference would be/was to trade Demar. But I just don't think he'd net back enough. That could re-shuffle or reset this roster direction or the teams draft asset stash. In a significant way. Unless somehow several teams were to get involved in a complicated deal.
Love seeing the thought exercise you went through! And that other Bulls fans care enough to bother doing so. Like I did. Ha! I would be EXCITED to land a player like Sharpe that is so so young, and oozes potential! Using that to do a sort of mini reset to the roster would be intriguing...
Apr 20, 2023·edited Apr 20, 2023Liked by your friendly BullsBlogger
Yo, I just wanna say, all content in this podcast ep aside, it's good to see Blogabull and Cash Considerations still hooking up, long may it continue to be so. I've subbed for the year, least I could do, BaB is the best bulls content around. I've had a couple of different usernames over the 15+ years I've enjoyed this site, I've even been on the ban chopping block once or twice throughout history and survived haha, but still here, still appreciate what you do Matt. So thank you.
Another gem regarding DeMar trade: "It's not so much anything about DeMar, it's more so then it becomes Zach's team again and we've seen before that doesn't work"
However regarding Billy/ Zach, we saw how snotty he got after the Orlando benching incident. He tried to split the locker room and vented in the media. So yes, it would be nice to have a head coach that said "ok Zach its in the best interest of the team if you're purely a Ray Allen on the Celtics role" and then was fearless of it costing him his job. But that's almost career suicide as a coach to alienate your highest paid player, even if it's over something that you're 100% right about. I struggle to think more than 2 or 3 coaches would say that. I don't know if guys like Kerr, Spoelstra, Nurse, etc would have the stones to draw a line like that. Only guy that comes to mind right off my head is Thibs in modern NBA coaches
We all know that if DeMar is traded to let Pat, Coby, and Dalen develop, Zach'll likely last half a season before complaining in the media through Klutch Sports and possibly asking for a trade. Dude is a bit of a diva, I wouldn't want to coach him
That was a great listen. I think the "how to build" conversation and evaluation of the "big 3" was incredibly interesting yet somehow also the most infuriating. Words cannot begin to explain how hopeless the next few moves feel, and at the same time how tired I've become of rebuilding.
Bulls stink and have basically no path to being good in the near future. Sucks but it is the way it is.
This won't fix them, but I think it might be the kind of thing they do. DeMar to the Nets for DFS, Joe Harris, and a pick for DeMar and Marko. Alternatively, Dillon Brooks and another Memphis salary (Brandon Clarke maybe?) and pick for DeMar.
Then maybe they sign Russ to start at PG and handle the ball, since you can't really make Zach a primary ballhandler and have any hope of being a winning team. Bring back Vuc on a three year deal or something.
I think Russ, Zach, Vuc big 3 maybe fits together slightly better and you are adding an additional shooter and wing defender with both DeMar trades. Again, none of this is great or really exciting, but it seems like the type of shit they might do.
Hmm interesting. I guess I view Russ at this stage in his career as worse than DeMar, but he would provide some playmaking which is something this team needs. I think he'd want more money than we can afford though.
In the spirit of NFL Mock Draft season where people specify Preferred (the mock draft you want to happen) vs. Predicted (the mock draft you think will happen), is your Accidental Tank scenario Preferred or Predicted? It almost sounded preferred in the pod but that doesn't make much sense to me.
I don't prefer it as a plan
but if they trade DeRozan for parts, I suppose I prefer accidentally tanking as I don't see a way such a trade makes them better (or even the same)
Alright, I refuse to be hopeless. So I did some digging around and thinking. Only a couple of teams not in our conference... stood out too me as likely willing to shake things up a bit. Portland and possibly New Orleans. The trade I came too is this:
Zach Lavine
Marko Simonovic
for
Anfernee Simons
Jusuf Nurkic
Salaries essentially match. One team or the other maaay have to throw in a pick to seal the deal. One could argue.
Anyways... The Bulls get younger at two positions. Simons still has a slight chance to blossom into a star. He can replace the issues caused at PG by Lonzo's injury. Simon's stats last year aren't too dissimilar from Lavine's. Other than rebounding. (But he is a PG/ combo guard so.)
Nurkic is comparable to Vuc. You take a small hit on the offensive side and gain some on the defensive side. PLUS some shot blocking! While getting younger. Allowing the Bulls to comfortably be able to let an aging, non needle moving big walk in free agency. Not do a complete rebuild. And still allowing them the flexibility to decide what paths they want to take with Demar, Caruso, and P-Will moving forward.
The Blazers get another star veteran to pair with Lillard and Grant in Lavine. Someone they can transition to marketing and building around/with if and when Lillard retires. Or if they decide to trade Dame down the road. Dame and Zach have some experience playing together from the Olympic team. This trade also lets the Blazers move off the somewhat injury prone Nurkic. With the Bulls assuming the risk. While Zach gets to move back closer to home.
And realistically the Reinsdorf's may sign off on this one. Since the salaries match. They wont go over the cap. Still get their precious revenue share! Arturas/Eversley get their wish. To not tear it all down and do a complete rebuild. Donovan is happy because he doesn't have to coach a rebuild this late in his coaching career. When he just signed his secret extension.
Some food for thought... To keep the discussion going. Have a great weekend everyone!
Would Simons actually help replace Lonzo's production? I'm not familiar with him, but he's listed as a shooting guard and his stats seem to support that.
From what I can see, as a lower cost plug and play replacement for Zach, I like him. I'm not sure the Blazers would be interested though, since Zach's number are such a small upgrade over Simon's this year. Unless they think this year's numbers are a fluke and then I could buy it.
Suppose I could've worded it better. He could replace Lonzo's position. And alot of Lavine's scoring production. See him as more of PG/combo guard. I think Zach's later 2nd half numbers(when he was more recovered from the injury) are much more closer to his real production levels. Which I'd assume the Blazers know. Then that version of Lavine is a solid upgrade over Simons in their eyes.
Another reason they may do it, is Shaedon Sharpe. He flashed a TON of potential this year. Was a high lottery pick for them. And they may want to
accelerate seeing just how good he is/can be. Playing the same position as Simons. And they can get Simons off their books. Lavine and Sharpe both have the size to play and guard 2's and 3's. Simons doesn't in my opinion. So the Blazers could have a Lillard, Lavine, Sharpe, Grant, Player X, lineup. Which has a ton of potenial...
I've been noodling on Blazers trades myself, but the Bulls would be big losers here unless they came away with a LOT of draft capital. I see why the Blazers would do it, but think we'd all agree Simons is a downgrade from Zach, and Nurkic is at best a push with Vooch (but I'd say a downgrade). So the Bulls are getting demonstrably worse and not getting a haul of picks, I don't see why the they would do it.
I do think Dame wants to win now, though, and the Bulls have ongoing protected rights to the Blazers 1st, which kind of junks up what they can do trade-wise, so I do think they are an interesting partner. But I'm much more inclined to ship DeMar, and I think he could pair with Dame pretty well.
Pie in the sky: Bulls send DeMar, Caruso and the protected 1st trade rights; Blazers send Sharpe AND Simons and maybe the Knicks pick? Or maybe Sharpe and Blazers 1st this year, and maybe a future 1st. To be fair, this seems probably too much in the Bulls favor, but damn it would be sweet to come away with Sharpe. Assuming he's untouchable...
More realistic: Bulls send DeMar, Caruso, and Blazers 1st rights. Blazers send: Simons, Nas Little, and the Knicks pick this year.
Why the Blazers do it: Dame, DeMar, Caruso, Grant (assuming he re-signs), Nurk, and Sharpe is a pretty talented base to build from. Maybe they can make a move or two more and be a playoff team for Dame's twilight run.
Why the Bulls do it: Bulls probably get worse, but they get younger, add a 1st round pick in a plus draft, and save about $8m in cap room. It's not a full tear down, but a pivot towards building a modern NBA team. I think you could bring Vooch back and still be in that play-in mix, or maybe go a different direction at center and really mix things up. (Sidenote: it would be very Bullsian to bring in another combo guard as leverage in negotiating with Coby.) I think Simons / Coby / LaVine could work as a three guard lineup (which Billy loves so much!), or one of Coby or Simons could be the 6th man depending how all else shakes out.
Maybe I'm undervaluing Lavine's trade market potential. And overvaluing Simons as a player and his still having a small chance at a higher ceiling to come. Could the deal be done with Portland also sending back a lightly protected 1st? Then the Bulls have a bigger reason to consider making the move.
Although my preference would be/was to trade Demar. But I just don't think he'd net back enough. That could re-shuffle or reset this roster direction or the teams draft asset stash. In a significant way. Unless somehow several teams were to get involved in a complicated deal.
Love seeing the thought exercise you went through! And that other Bulls fans care enough to bother doing so. Like I did. Ha! I would be EXCITED to land a player like Sharpe that is so so young, and oozes potential! Using that to do a sort of mini reset to the roster would be intriguing...
Yo, I just wanna say, all content in this podcast ep aside, it's good to see Blogabull and Cash Considerations still hooking up, long may it continue to be so. I've subbed for the year, least I could do, BaB is the best bulls content around. I've had a couple of different usernames over the 15+ years I've enjoyed this site, I've even been on the ban chopping block once or twice throughout history and survived haha, but still here, still appreciate what you do Matt. So thank you.
thanks
honestly this is a technical amnesty program. I can't really "track" who I banned, so clean slate for all!
Another gem regarding DeMar trade: "It's not so much anything about DeMar, it's more so then it becomes Zach's team again and we've seen before that doesn't work"
However regarding Billy/ Zach, we saw how snotty he got after the Orlando benching incident. He tried to split the locker room and vented in the media. So yes, it would be nice to have a head coach that said "ok Zach its in the best interest of the team if you're purely a Ray Allen on the Celtics role" and then was fearless of it costing him his job. But that's almost career suicide as a coach to alienate your highest paid player, even if it's over something that you're 100% right about. I struggle to think more than 2 or 3 coaches would say that. I don't know if guys like Kerr, Spoelstra, Nurse, etc would have the stones to draw a line like that. Only guy that comes to mind right off my head is Thibs in modern NBA coaches
We all know that if DeMar is traded to let Pat, Coby, and Dalen develop, Zach'll likely last half a season before complaining in the media through Klutch Sports and possibly asking for a trade. Dude is a bit of a diva, I wouldn't want to coach him
Mmmmmmaybe. Coaching talent is a skill in itself. Not every coach has it. Billy, nice guy that he is, doesn't. Which is a problem.
That was a great listen. I think the "how to build" conversation and evaluation of the "big 3" was incredibly interesting yet somehow also the most infuriating. Words cannot begin to explain how hopeless the next few moves feel, and at the same time how tired I've become of rebuilding.
Bulls stink and have basically no path to being good in the near future. Sucks but it is the way it is.
This won't fix them, but I think it might be the kind of thing they do. DeMar to the Nets for DFS, Joe Harris, and a pick for DeMar and Marko. Alternatively, Dillon Brooks and another Memphis salary (Brandon Clarke maybe?) and pick for DeMar.
Then maybe they sign Russ to start at PG and handle the ball, since you can't really make Zach a primary ballhandler and have any hope of being a winning team. Bring back Vuc on a three year deal or something.
I think Russ, Zach, Vuc big 3 maybe fits together slightly better and you are adding an additional shooter and wing defender with both DeMar trades. Again, none of this is great or really exciting, but it seems like the type of shit they might do.
Russ as in Russell Westbrook?
Yes
Hmm interesting. I guess I view Russ at this stage in his career as worse than DeMar, but he would provide some playmaking which is something this team needs. I think he'd want more money than we can afford though.
I got around to listening this weekend, and great use of "boffed" by YFBB around 19 mins. You don't hear that one enough anymore.