Copy/pasting part of this morning's comment on the previous post as it's probably more relevant here:
I don't think the Saric-and-2nds trade represents any kind of change in direction or philosophy. It's just "free money".
My predictions for the deadline:
1. Bulls do at least one more minor "trade facilitation" to net another 2nd rounder
2. Coby traded (possibly along with a 2nd) for a warm body and a heavily protected future 1st (or pick swap).
3. Ayo extended on deadline day to a deal that is "surprisingly fair for both sides" and yet also limits our cap flexibility next offseason.
Do I hope I'm right or hope I'm wrong? Honestly I'm not sure. I could see any given NBA GM doing much better than this, but I could also see AKME doing much worse.
The biggest surprise to me would be picking a lane other than "content to compete for a playoff spot while the core develops and gels". There's no scenario where AK convinces his bosses to go for an extended tank now. And I also believe AK realizes the Vuc trade and swing at the "Big Three" was a failure, so I don't see him taking a big swing for an aging star like Giannis, whose game isn't really built to survive an athletic decline.
To the above, you might say "you're just copying what the Bulls have done the last couple years with other deals."
And yes, there's a specific lens you need to look through when you're dealing with a team that was 18-21 through 39 games for four years in a row, and yet management doesn't perceive this as a massive wake-up call.
No they're not tanking, not going to tank, and luckily for them trading Coby and/or Ayo isn't a tank move regardless.
But I do wonder if it goes beyond AK promising ownership they wouldn't tank: they promised improvement. To us, there is little difference in relevance or 'championship equity' if they finish 6th or lose the play-in or finish one spot out. But they wouldn't be able to convince ownership that they're improving over last year.
I think you really hit on the fundamental core of every single piece of Bulls analysis over the past several years, which is "What is the actual deal -- whether verbal or contractual -- that the Reinsdorfs made with AK?" What's being communicated in writing and said behind closed doors?
(Notably, Ricky also leans into the Cameron Payne experiment as the epitome of incompetence...though that analysis didn't age as well, as Payne has played significant minutes in 61 playoff games since leaving the Bulls, whereas the Bulls as a team have played in 5 total playoff games in that span).
So the GarPax Bulls were three years into a tank, and didn't really have a strategy or "process" to get out of the tank. And so, I'm convinced that AKME was brought in to make the Bulls competitive again, and give the fans something to hope for, before the eternal flame of fan good will from the Jordan and Rose eras was totally extinguished.
So AKME went to work trying to build a competitive team, and they were successful by that standard. That's undoubtable.
Were they ever asked or held accountable to do more than bring some competitiveness to the Bulls? (Meaning, "they're in the playoff hunt each year"?). I don't know, but I suspect they weren't. And were they asked to keep the budget to a certain level set based on financial/accounting analysis, P&L statements, etc? I strongly suspect so, and I also suspect there were/are bonuses built into all of the GarPax and AKME contracts for hitting certain net revenue and net profit targets. That's what makes selling 2nds for cash considerations a "Bulls thing", not a "GarPax thing" or an "AKME thing".
This is not me arguing with your point/question above. I don't think there's any way of knowing objectively whether AKME "promised improvement" or are being held to that standard, other than improvement over the end of the GarPax era. If they did promise that, I agree that it's not a case they can make any more and they're going to have to either push hard for a true playoff berth this year or go all-in on 2026-2027. I really hope that the 'Dorfs are holding them to an "improvement" standard because if not, it really doesn't matter who is at the helm as this is the best it's going to get for us as fans.
Reinsdorf even said at one point he doesn't like championship teams because then fans expectations get too high. I think he was talking about the White Sox a few years after 2005 but still, it gives you an insight into his mindset.
I don't believe the financial element gets that granular. The Bulls just tell their executives don't go over the luxury tax unless we're going to 'contend', and also don't expect much of a budget for executives, scouts, and analysts. I'm sure if attendance really cratered they'd hear it, but it is very difficult to bust through that floor given their market
In exchange, AK pledged credibility. He is a uninspiring dumbass but AK was able to lean into his playing career past and competitive nature to convince Michael Reinsdorf that no longer would they be the embarrassment like the final years of GarPax because at the very least they would be all about winning. They could build a 'contender' (affordable 4th seed, ideally) without tanking.
But while not a national embarrassment, in so much there's any attention given towards the Bulls, it's as this joke of sub-mediocrity. Losing in the play-in tournament *three* straight years is going to perpetuate that embarrassment, and the 'dorfs are simple people so they won't be convinced it's a younger, improving team reaching these records
What you're saying is grounded in harsh reality but I think ultimately optimism? Not the optimism that things where they stand are good, but that change is coming, and soon.
The word "credibility" also reminds me that it wasn't just AK, but also ME, who brought a solid resume with him to Chicago....
...and, with an organization that values continuity and loyalty, is there a chance the 'Dorfs have to salvage this era by dumping AK and promoting ME? ME is certainly more articulate and seems to give more than half-hearted effort with the media. Wonder what the behind the scenes relationship is with the 'Dorfs or if ME is as tied at the hip with AK as we perceive as fans?
ME may be more articulate but has similarly dumb content
I've long said that I don't share the ultimate doomerism that the Bulls cannot be successful with current ownership. I think AKME are superlatively terrible basketball executives.
And I do have some optimism that they (and Michael versus Jerry) don't have quite the loyalty-over-performance arrangement that Paxson did. It's not great optimism, like any other team would've fired AKME 2 deadlines ago, but still
I don't know...I mean what evidence do we have that Michael is anything other than a spoiled buffoon? I'm not saying he IS, definitively, but how would we know if he wasn't? What would he be doing that he isn't now?
And I'm never going to be one to defend AKME, but if BOTH Arturas and Marc are blithering idiots and superbly terrible at their jobs, isn't that just the WORST LUCK IN THE WORLD that the Bulls hired both guys, both of whom worked in respected front offices and were widely praised when hired -- and of all the possible outcomes on the roulette wheel of front office construction (both guys being great, or one or the other being great while the other merely competent, or one being good while the other is bad, both being below average, etc.), the Bulls hit "double zero" on the wheel with both being absolute incomptetent imbeciles? And instead of immediately noticing that, or taking a few years to notice that, after about 5 years of close observation Bulls ownership decided the best course of action was to offer Arturas and Marc contract extensions, handing over the keys to the team for another few years? It doesn't add up to me and it's extremely reductive to just blame everything ugly about the Bulls organization on AKME both being nimcompoops, even if we assume that take may have truth to it.
So while we agree on many points, I don't buy your overall take on them, sorry. There's either something rotten at the top of the food chain (in most businesses, the guys who hired and continue to sponsor idiocy are worse than the actual idiots) or there's something else afoot -- like an understanding at the top (among all parties) that the constraints put in place by ownership are baked into their strategy and not counted against AKME (or Billy, for that matter) in their performance evaluations. That's my take and I'm sticking to it -- which I'd summarize as "Look, we as Bulls owners have some ways we are asking you to run this team that are going to make you look like idiots at times, but we've got your back". So yeah, they're complicit in a scheme to ensure mediocrity, which may be different than idiocy but probably worse, as even idiots can luck into success.
harebrained idea for Portland pick protection negotiation, instead of making it top-4, make it to where the Bulls essentially get Portland's lottery balls if they don't make the playoffs.
so if Portland makes playoffs - Bulls get pick and have their own lottery balls (solid assumption Bulls are not making East playoffs)
Portland misses playoffs - Bulls have their lottery balls AND gain Portland's lottery balls. It's not going to be a lot, but it's something. And then if there's a top-4 lotto win from either team's lotto balls, it becomes a pick swap where Blazers get the 12th-14th pick. If no lotto win then Bulls keep both picks.
All of the Bulls fans who don’t want to trade for Giannis are going to have to explain to me what about AK’s resume tells them it’s a better idea to have him use his picks than trade them for top 5 superstars.
I don't want to trade for Giannis but it's because I think Giannis is approaching the declining years of his career and his game is built on a skill set that doesn't age well (nor is "aging Giannis" the kind of player that's going to attract other superstars or ring-chasers). There's certainly a big part of me that would be excited to get him as it would immediately make things so much more interesting as a fan. But the other part of me who's looking at the mid-to-long-term future of the team would be horrified.
It's not because I want AKME using our picks. Actually my hope would be that our next GM has those picks vs. a washed Giannis to work with.
I guess it's a 6 in one hand, half-dozen in the other situation. You might not trust AKME with draft picks but that's the same amount I trust them to build a winner around Giannis. But you can luck into good draft picks (Matas seems like a good pick, Ayo was a steal). I'm not sure AKME could luck into assembling a team of role players who would go on deep playoff runs surrounding a diminishing and injury-prone age 32-36 year old Giannis who's making 35% of the cap.
I just don't see how we could put a team around him. The best I can come up with is something like Giddey, Pat and Noa, plus picks obviously, for Giannis. This would leave us enough cap space to get Reaves and a couple role players. We could have a deep team and still have Matas, but I'm not sure that's a winner.
The other way to go would be to keep Giddey, trade mostly expirings, and then re-sign Coby, Ayo and Huerter. That might be a top 4 team in the East, I don't know how much better they could get from there.
I also think Atlanta and Brooklyn could make better offers than us.
And I'm still a little pissed at Giannis for giving us the finger the last game he played here.
I would offer Giddey, Vuc, Collins, Coby, Noa, and three unprotected first round picks for Giannis and Turner.
That basically gives Milwaukee significant cap relief, two players to build with, and three picks that they’d likely believe would be higher than if they traded Giannis to the Knicks, Warriors, or maybe even Atlanta.
New starting five: Tre, Ayo, Matas, Giannis, Turner.
That doesn't seem like a very good team though, does it? It looks a lot like Milwaukee's team now, except Matas is better. I don't think Ayo and Tre are much different than Rollins and Porter. I guess we would have a little more depth than the Bucks do now.
I do think that's ultimately the problem with going after Giannis. The Bulls would have to give up so much to get him that they'd have to surround him with a skeleton crew like Milwaukee has been doing.
I'm not necessarily against the idea of trying to bring him to Chicago, but I definitely do wonder if they'd actually have any success post-trade.
“I think that there are certain things that this team needs to take the next step, but we’ll see what happens,” Vucevic said. “If nothing happens then it’s on us to try and figure it out and get there. You know it’s not fun when you’re in the same position year after year, and especially when you can’t get out of that play-in, you get stuck behind Miami every time, so we’ll see how it goes.
“But yeah, I think this team does need some things that can definitely help us to go forward, take that next step, and we’ll see what happens.”
Asked if he wanted to get into specifics of what that help might be, he didn’t shy away.
“Mainly we need some size and athleticism,” Vucevic responded. “We’re pretty undersized at most positions. I think that’s it, that would be the main thing. Because the way the league is right now and a lot of teams have these big wings, I think that’s something that can definitely help us if we add some of that. Just the way the game has changed, the way the game has evolved, most teams their two, three and four are 6-8, 6-9, and we don’t really have that.”
It's pretty funny how Cowley has cornered this beat, where he overrates Vuc (because he likes Vuc personally plus doesn't know shit about basketball) and tries to make it seem like Vuc deserves better than what the Bulls have been doing
but the reality is the Bulls are where they are BECAUSE of Vuc. A sub-average "All Star" who has way too much responsibility, isn't making a ton but more than he should. He is Bulls! Bulls are Vuc!
Yep. Vucevic still being a Bull is the perfect illustration of AK's tenure and propensity to keep guys way too long for fear of taking a step back, looking bad by giving up on guys "too early" or whatever. It's how Coby White is still here in Year 7. It's how Patrick Williams is still here in Year 6. It's how Zach spent 8 years here. DeMar, Caruso, Lonzo trades all happened later than they should have. Drummond was kept at the deadline despite a good offer and then walked. It's an insane track record.
it is glaring how slow AK moves compared to the rest of the league. You see championship or finals teams that have complete turnover. He hasn't torn down the 2021-22 team, who peaked when they led the East in January
I don't get you saying AK's strategy is kicking the can down the road. He's either going to sign guys this summer or he's not. We will know by the end of the summer whether he's successful or whether he failed.
Sure he can make excuses. Anybody can do that whenever whatever ideas they have don't work. And we can all judge for ourselves whether he deserves any slack. But the accountability will be there at the end of the summer.
To me the guy kicking the can down the road is Danny Ainge. How long has he been in Utah already, it seems like 10 years. Markkanen may retire before Danny ends his tank.
This is only the second season Utah is really bad.
The season after Ainge traded away Gobert and Mitchell (2022-2023), the Jazz won 37 games, which was only three games less than the Bulls.
The year after that (2023-2024), they won 31 games, which was only 8 games less than the Bulls.
AK’s problem is that he refuses to be a seller when he should be and then often doesn’t win many more games than the teams that do trade key players away.
Yeah, I don't know. If I was a Jazz fan, I guess I would have been excited that first year when Lauri and Walker Kessler both had breakout years. But instead of developing those guys Ainge has buried them, while his teams have finished 12th, 12th, 15th and now 13th. And the young players they brought in don't look that great. George may be good some day, but I wouldn't take him over Matas. I think Jazz fans have got to be frustrated.
I think Jazz fans are pretty happy with George and see him as their next Mitchell. He’s averaging a pretty efficient 24/7/4 this season. A Lauri/George/Kessler trio is pretty intriguing but they need an actual two-way wing to tie it together. Not really sure if Ace is that guy, and they totally blew the Cody Williams pick (one before Matas!). I think they’re fine tanking this one last year, especially with Kessler out and their defense being the worst in the league, but they def need a step forward next year.
Would definitely look into it but does seem at least like the Jazz are pretty committed to keeping him...as they should be given how much their defense sucks lol
Yes, the Jazz definitely want to keep him, we'd need to test the limits of their commitment. We need a center, I was wondering whether you think he is worth making a big offer to.
Ok, so Jamal Collier said today about Giannis “The Miami Heat, Minnesota Timberwolves, Golden State Warriors and New York Knicks are among the most active suitors for a deal before the deadline, sources told ESPN.”
So yeah, that makes sense and probably confirms the Bulls aren’t in the conversation.
I’m starting to believe it’s going to be an odd deadline where AK makes a couple of moves but doesn’t totally commit to selling or buying. Like, he’ll trade Coby, acquire Mathurin, and keep everyone else.
I think trading Coby is a commitment to selling, and would be a stronger indicator than anything he's done at prior deadlines
Unless they internally view Coby as a LaVine-esque loser? But that still would be more forward thinking - if incorrect - than usual.
I really wouldn't get why they'd then acquire Mathurin, who is worse and also up for a payday. Maybe a second draft guy who is under contract a bit longer like Dillingham I could see.
Can't remember where I read this (maybe from Elias on si.com) but KC Johnson made it seem like the Bulls are exploring the market for both Ayo and Coby, but they really only want to trade one or the other and they'd prefer that be Coby.
Personally, I don't see why they want to trade just one. Both probably have positive value are pretty replaceable on this team. Why not just take the best offer for both? And I especially don't understand why they'd want to keep Coby if they trade Ayo. It's clear Coby and Giddey don't really work that well together, especially on defense. Trade him for somebody that fits the team better and won't require you shelling out ~$25 million this summer.
Yeah, there will be a bunch of guards to choose from this summer. The only real upgrade from Coby will be Reaves, but as you say we could get someone cheaper who also plays a little better defense. Grimes, for instance, or Kevin Porter.
I have to give myself credit in not consuming any KC Johnson rumor content anymore. Like he was on The Score today, and had his house organ podcast, and I didn't bother listening. He doesn't know anything that the front office doesn't want out there
I did see in an aggregation of his latest that KC was 'emphatic' in saying that AK is not buying into recent play (I assume the 5 game winning streak, not the losing streak) and that affecting his deadline attitude. I'll believe it when I see it.
My safe assumption is that they'll do nothing and take a victory lap for being smart about what the market would give them and tout the progress a younger roster is making.
My cynical take is that they'll sell off some parts as a hedge against missing the play-in so that they coud say they were right there, but decided to re-tool for a big step forward next year.
Either way, I expect no moves that can be defended by anyone other than the idiots who always say let's see what they do this summer or clearly there was no market for these guys.
MJ was a lifetime ago. Rose has been gone for a generation. Bulls fans are masochists.
I would welcome the sell off parts move! Yes ultimately cynical reduction of payroll and can-kicking, but better than waiting until you can't sell at all
It's been 3 straight deadlines of 'we're trying to make the play-in', so that is what I expect. With a little bit of 'we owe it to the group to see when they're healthy'
Run a thousand simulations with hundreds of different GM's, and in none of them do the Bulls intentionally tank or go appreciably over the salary cap, IMO. Those are conditions of employment. Rather than trash AKME, better to advocate that no one accept the Bulls' GM job. You're howling at the moon. House rules: Posit that there are constraints on AKME's options. Evaluate them guided by the tactics at their disposal.
The vitriol hurled at AKME is Biblical. If the pressure is too great, address your opinions to Reinsdorf. Just like the small market franchises, the Bulls have limitations, but theirs are based on policies. The "promise" is that once the Bulls have a strong young core, they'll spend mega money on contracts for mega stars. In the mean time, I'd rather hear more about the players than about the writers' feelings.
It's his site, he can write what he wants. I've been on here for 15 years, it's been a pretty good place, lots of knowledgeable fans, like yourself. A lot of people are frustrated with the Bulls right now, for good reason, and yfBb has a pretty good handle on that.
Well, I'm giving yfBB feedback, maybe a minority perspective (percentage not racial). I've been on blogs forever but Substack since only recently, so I don't have the perspective or loyalty on yfBB. My guess is that the next Bulls milestone is May-June 2027, and think that after Jerry Reinsdorf the Bulls might make similar generational steps as the Blackhawks did. They have the wherewithal.
Even with the restraints the Reinsdorfs puts on the front office, AK still sucks at his job.
The Reinsdorfs cheapness and fear of tanking has nothing to do with AK’s overall poor draft history or his refusal to move on from players when it’s time.
He can be much more active in his job and still meet the Reinsdorfs dumb demands.
Well those are two specific criticisms. Going from zero to something in 2021 was good, not great, but necessary. Resigning Coby and Ayo was very good, PWill baffling. Drafting Buzelis and Essengue could be very good. Reinsdorf seems to give his GMs 5+ years and a couple rebuild attempts. On AKME's contracts, the clock is ticking. I'm not standing on the building's ledge.
I would be surprised if the Clippers find anyone to take Harden in the next two days. If they are worried he will pout and not play, maybe they'd be interested in Coby and Ayo. They have a first and two seconds they could give us.
Yep, but Cavs want picks. And Garland is hurt. And anyway Clips are trying to clear space after next year. Lots of reasons for that deal to not happen.
Chicago, Minnesota and Detroit have agreed to a multi-team deal that sends Jaden Ivey and Mike Conley Jr. to the Bulls and Kevin Huerter and Dario Saric to the Pistons, sources tell ESPN. Detroit also receives a 2026 first-round protected swap from Minnesota.
Is this just a salary dump for Minnesota? A few more details to come, I'd think.
I'd expect that Conley can be traded again before the deadline as the Bulls can simply wait for it to be official and then make it a multi-team trade. Else, Conley could still be traded, but couldn't be aggregated
at $10.7M though I don't think any team will trade for Conley that actually wants him. He isn't valuable as a player anymore, and the Wolves just said he's not even that valuable as a locker room guy
I like taking a chance on him. I assume this confirms Coby is being traded.
I also sincerely doubt the Bulls would trade for Ivey if they aren’t seriously considering retaining him once he becomes a RFA this summer. So I think you can expect his new contract to be part of where this offseason’s money goes.
Yeah - hard to be mad about a Huerter for Ivey swap. They're both expiring, and you get a look at Ivey and hold his restricted free agent rights. Maybe they flip Conley for something, but most likely a buyout. Especially since it seems Minnesota paid the price of a 1st round swap (moderately valuable to the Pistons) to get off of him.
can't help but think that the Bulls are taking the 'young player with experience' over a pick.
BUT, while I don't think getting a look at Ivey, when they could have pursued him in restricted free agency, is that valuable in most cases...with Ivey's injury concerns it may be worth it.
of course since this is the Bulls, they're going to sign Ivey to a massive extension and THEN find out he's missing a leg.
Copy/pasting part of this morning's comment on the previous post as it's probably more relevant here:
I don't think the Saric-and-2nds trade represents any kind of change in direction or philosophy. It's just "free money".
My predictions for the deadline:
1. Bulls do at least one more minor "trade facilitation" to net another 2nd rounder
2. Coby traded (possibly along with a 2nd) for a warm body and a heavily protected future 1st (or pick swap).
3. Ayo extended on deadline day to a deal that is "surprisingly fair for both sides" and yet also limits our cap flexibility next offseason.
Do I hope I'm right or hope I'm wrong? Honestly I'm not sure. I could see any given NBA GM doing much better than this, but I could also see AKME doing much worse.
The biggest surprise to me would be picking a lane other than "content to compete for a playoff spot while the core develops and gels". There's no scenario where AK convinces his bosses to go for an extended tank now. And I also believe AK realizes the Vuc trade and swing at the "Big Three" was a failure, so I don't see him taking a big swing for an aging star like Giannis, whose game isn't really built to survive an athletic decline.
To the above, you might say "you're just copying what the Bulls have done the last couple years with other deals."
And yes, there's a specific lens you need to look through when you're dealing with a team that was 18-21 through 39 games for four years in a row, and yet management doesn't perceive this as a massive wake-up call.
No they're not tanking, not going to tank, and luckily for them trading Coby and/or Ayo isn't a tank move regardless.
But I do wonder if it goes beyond AK promising ownership they wouldn't tank: they promised improvement. To us, there is little difference in relevance or 'championship equity' if they finish 6th or lose the play-in or finish one spot out. But they wouldn't be able to convince ownership that they're improving over last year.
I think you really hit on the fundamental core of every single piece of Bulls analysis over the past several years, which is "What is the actual deal -- whether verbal or contractual -- that the Reinsdorfs made with AK?" What's being communicated in writing and said behind closed doors?
When the 'Dorfs fired Gar and "reassigned" Pax in April 2020, the Bulls had been 27-55, 22-60, and 22-43 the past three years. As Ricky noted in this article, the Bulls' fan base had quit on the team: https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2020/2/14/21138064/chicago-bulls-all-star-weekend-2020-fire-garpax-chants-zach-lavine-billboard
(Notably, Ricky also leans into the Cameron Payne experiment as the epitome of incompetence...though that analysis didn't age as well, as Payne has played significant minutes in 61 playoff games since leaving the Bulls, whereas the Bulls as a team have played in 5 total playoff games in that span).
So the GarPax Bulls were three years into a tank, and didn't really have a strategy or "process" to get out of the tank. And so, I'm convinced that AKME was brought in to make the Bulls competitive again, and give the fans something to hope for, before the eternal flame of fan good will from the Jordan and Rose eras was totally extinguished.
So AKME went to work trying to build a competitive team, and they were successful by that standard. That's undoubtable.
Were they ever asked or held accountable to do more than bring some competitiveness to the Bulls? (Meaning, "they're in the playoff hunt each year"?). I don't know, but I suspect they weren't. And were they asked to keep the budget to a certain level set based on financial/accounting analysis, P&L statements, etc? I strongly suspect so, and I also suspect there were/are bonuses built into all of the GarPax and AKME contracts for hitting certain net revenue and net profit targets. That's what makes selling 2nds for cash considerations a "Bulls thing", not a "GarPax thing" or an "AKME thing".
This is not me arguing with your point/question above. I don't think there's any way of knowing objectively whether AKME "promised improvement" or are being held to that standard, other than improvement over the end of the GarPax era. If they did promise that, I agree that it's not a case they can make any more and they're going to have to either push hard for a true playoff berth this year or go all-in on 2026-2027. I really hope that the 'Dorfs are holding them to an "improvement" standard because if not, it really doesn't matter who is at the helm as this is the best it's going to get for us as fans.
Reinsdorf even said at one point he doesn't like championship teams because then fans expectations get too high. I think he was talking about the White Sox a few years after 2005 but still, it gives you an insight into his mindset.
I don't believe the financial element gets that granular. The Bulls just tell their executives don't go over the luxury tax unless we're going to 'contend', and also don't expect much of a budget for executives, scouts, and analysts. I'm sure if attendance really cratered they'd hear it, but it is very difficult to bust through that floor given their market
In exchange, AK pledged credibility. He is a uninspiring dumbass but AK was able to lean into his playing career past and competitive nature to convince Michael Reinsdorf that no longer would they be the embarrassment like the final years of GarPax because at the very least they would be all about winning. They could build a 'contender' (affordable 4th seed, ideally) without tanking.
But while not a national embarrassment, in so much there's any attention given towards the Bulls, it's as this joke of sub-mediocrity. Losing in the play-in tournament *three* straight years is going to perpetuate that embarrassment, and the 'dorfs are simple people so they won't be convinced it's a younger, improving team reaching these records
What you're saying is grounded in harsh reality but I think ultimately optimism? Not the optimism that things where they stand are good, but that change is coming, and soon.
The word "credibility" also reminds me that it wasn't just AK, but also ME, who brought a solid resume with him to Chicago....
...and, with an organization that values continuity and loyalty, is there a chance the 'Dorfs have to salvage this era by dumping AK and promoting ME? ME is certainly more articulate and seems to give more than half-hearted effort with the media. Wonder what the behind the scenes relationship is with the 'Dorfs or if ME is as tied at the hip with AK as we perceive as fans?
ME may be more articulate but has similarly dumb content
I've long said that I don't share the ultimate doomerism that the Bulls cannot be successful with current ownership. I think AKME are superlatively terrible basketball executives.
And I do have some optimism that they (and Michael versus Jerry) don't have quite the loyalty-over-performance arrangement that Paxson did. It's not great optimism, like any other team would've fired AKME 2 deadlines ago, but still
I don't know...I mean what evidence do we have that Michael is anything other than a spoiled buffoon? I'm not saying he IS, definitively, but how would we know if he wasn't? What would he be doing that he isn't now?
And I'm never going to be one to defend AKME, but if BOTH Arturas and Marc are blithering idiots and superbly terrible at their jobs, isn't that just the WORST LUCK IN THE WORLD that the Bulls hired both guys, both of whom worked in respected front offices and were widely praised when hired -- and of all the possible outcomes on the roulette wheel of front office construction (both guys being great, or one or the other being great while the other merely competent, or one being good while the other is bad, both being below average, etc.), the Bulls hit "double zero" on the wheel with both being absolute incomptetent imbeciles? And instead of immediately noticing that, or taking a few years to notice that, after about 5 years of close observation Bulls ownership decided the best course of action was to offer Arturas and Marc contract extensions, handing over the keys to the team for another few years? It doesn't add up to me and it's extremely reductive to just blame everything ugly about the Bulls organization on AKME both being nimcompoops, even if we assume that take may have truth to it.
So while we agree on many points, I don't buy your overall take on them, sorry. There's either something rotten at the top of the food chain (in most businesses, the guys who hired and continue to sponsor idiocy are worse than the actual idiots) or there's something else afoot -- like an understanding at the top (among all parties) that the constraints put in place by ownership are baked into their strategy and not counted against AKME (or Billy, for that matter) in their performance evaluations. That's my take and I'm sticking to it -- which I'd summarize as "Look, we as Bulls owners have some ways we are asking you to run this team that are going to make you look like idiots at times, but we've got your back". So yeah, they're complicit in a scheme to ensure mediocrity, which may be different than idiocy but probably worse, as even idiots can luck into success.
harebrained idea for Portland pick protection negotiation, instead of making it top-4, make it to where the Bulls essentially get Portland's lottery balls if they don't make the playoffs.
so if Portland makes playoffs - Bulls get pick and have their own lottery balls (solid assumption Bulls are not making East playoffs)
Portland misses playoffs - Bulls have their lottery balls AND gain Portland's lottery balls. It's not going to be a lot, but it's something. And then if there's a top-4 lotto win from either team's lotto balls, it becomes a pick swap where Blazers get the 12th-14th pick. If no lotto win then Bulls keep both picks.
Definitely a ballsy idea any way you slice it.
All of the Bulls fans who don’t want to trade for Giannis are going to have to explain to me what about AK’s resume tells them it’s a better idea to have him use his picks than trade them for top 5 superstars.
they'll tell you actually Josh Giddey will give you more over the next 5 years than Giannis, it's not a rationale worth confronting
I don't want to trade for Giannis but it's because I think Giannis is approaching the declining years of his career and his game is built on a skill set that doesn't age well (nor is "aging Giannis" the kind of player that's going to attract other superstars or ring-chasers). There's certainly a big part of me that would be excited to get him as it would immediately make things so much more interesting as a fan. But the other part of me who's looking at the mid-to-long-term future of the team would be horrified.
It's not because I want AKME using our picks. Actually my hope would be that our next GM has those picks vs. a washed Giannis to work with.
Is there any guarantee the next Bulls GM is coming sometime within the next decade?
Remember, AK is only here because Pax fired himself. The Reinsdorfs don’t like to make changes in their front office.
I guess it's a 6 in one hand, half-dozen in the other situation. You might not trust AKME with draft picks but that's the same amount I trust them to build a winner around Giannis. But you can luck into good draft picks (Matas seems like a good pick, Ayo was a steal). I'm not sure AKME could luck into assembling a team of role players who would go on deep playoff runs surrounding a diminishing and injury-prone age 32-36 year old Giannis who's making 35% of the cap.
I just don't see how we could put a team around him. The best I can come up with is something like Giddey, Pat and Noa, plus picks obviously, for Giannis. This would leave us enough cap space to get Reaves and a couple role players. We could have a deep team and still have Matas, but I'm not sure that's a winner.
The other way to go would be to keep Giddey, trade mostly expirings, and then re-sign Coby, Ayo and Huerter. That might be a top 4 team in the East, I don't know how much better they could get from there.
I also think Atlanta and Brooklyn could make better offers than us.
And I'm still a little pissed at Giannis for giving us the finger the last game he played here.
I would offer Giddey, Vuc, Collins, Coby, Noa, and three unprotected first round picks for Giannis and Turner.
That basically gives Milwaukee significant cap relief, two players to build with, and three picks that they’d likely believe would be higher than if they traded Giannis to the Knicks, Warriors, or maybe even Atlanta.
New starting five: Tre, Ayo, Matas, Giannis, Turner.
That doesn't seem like a very good team though, does it? It looks a lot like Milwaukee's team now, except Matas is better. I don't think Ayo and Tre are much different than Rollins and Porter. I guess we would have a little more depth than the Bucks do now.
I do think that's ultimately the problem with going after Giannis. The Bulls would have to give up so much to get him that they'd have to surround him with a skeleton crew like Milwaukee has been doing.
I'm not necessarily against the idea of trying to bring him to Chicago, but I definitely do wonder if they'd actually have any success post-trade.
I was thinking the exact same trade for Thybulle and getting ready to post it. It's amazing we are on the same page about something.
I've got five bucks that says that after the initial tease, AK won't do anything this week!
Vucevic is fed up. Ask for a buyout pal!
“I think that there are certain things that this team needs to take the next step, but we’ll see what happens,” Vucevic said. “If nothing happens then it’s on us to try and figure it out and get there. You know it’s not fun when you’re in the same position year after year, and especially when you can’t get out of that play-in, you get stuck behind Miami every time, so we’ll see how it goes.
“But yeah, I think this team does need some things that can definitely help us to go forward, take that next step, and we’ll see what happens.”
Asked if he wanted to get into specifics of what that help might be, he didn’t shy away.
“Mainly we need some size and athleticism,” Vucevic responded. “We’re pretty undersized at most positions. I think that’s it, that would be the main thing. Because the way the league is right now and a lot of teams have these big wings, I think that’s something that can definitely help us if we add some of that. Just the way the game has changed, the way the game has evolved, most teams their two, three and four are 6-8, 6-9, and we don’t really have that.”
https://chicago.suntimes.com/bulls/2026/02/02/bulls-veteran-nikola-vucevic-knows-team-needs-more-deadline
It's pretty funny how Cowley has cornered this beat, where he overrates Vuc (because he likes Vuc personally plus doesn't know shit about basketball) and tries to make it seem like Vuc deserves better than what the Bulls have been doing
but the reality is the Bulls are where they are BECAUSE of Vuc. A sub-average "All Star" who has way too much responsibility, isn't making a ton but more than he should. He is Bulls! Bulls are Vuc!
Yep. Vucevic still being a Bull is the perfect illustration of AK's tenure and propensity to keep guys way too long for fear of taking a step back, looking bad by giving up on guys "too early" or whatever. It's how Coby White is still here in Year 7. It's how Patrick Williams is still here in Year 6. It's how Zach spent 8 years here. DeMar, Caruso, Lonzo trades all happened later than they should have. Drummond was kept at the deadline despite a good offer and then walked. It's an insane track record.
it is glaring how slow AK moves compared to the rest of the league. You see championship or finals teams that have complete turnover. He hasn't torn down the 2021-22 team, who peaked when they led the East in January
So Vuc is basically saying there are too many guards on this roster.
I mean, what are we even doing here with this Sun Times article?
Why does Cowley think any fan cares about Vuc’s opinion of what the roster needs?
It’s ironic, because one of the most consistent fan complaints about this roster is that they don’t want Vuc anymore.
He thinks we have too many guards haha. We're definitely short on centers.
I don't get you saying AK's strategy is kicking the can down the road. He's either going to sign guys this summer or he's not. We will know by the end of the summer whether he's successful or whether he failed.
Sure he can make excuses. Anybody can do that whenever whatever ideas they have don't work. And we can all judge for ourselves whether he deserves any slack. But the accountability will be there at the end of the summer.
To me the guy kicking the can down the road is Danny Ainge. How long has he been in Utah already, it seems like 10 years. Markkanen may retire before Danny ends his tank.
This is only the second season Utah is really bad.
The season after Ainge traded away Gobert and Mitchell (2022-2023), the Jazz won 37 games, which was only three games less than the Bulls.
The year after that (2023-2024), they won 31 games, which was only 8 games less than the Bulls.
AK’s problem is that he refuses to be a seller when he should be and then often doesn’t win many more games than the teams that do trade key players away.
Yeah, I don't know. If I was a Jazz fan, I guess I would have been excited that first year when Lauri and Walker Kessler both had breakout years. But instead of developing those guys Ainge has buried them, while his teams have finished 12th, 12th, 15th and now 13th. And the young players they brought in don't look that great. George may be good some day, but I wouldn't take him over Matas. I think Jazz fans have got to be frustrated.
I think Jazz fans are pretty happy with George and see him as their next Mitchell. He’s averaging a pretty efficient 24/7/4 this season. A Lauri/George/Kessler trio is pretty intriguing but they need an actual two-way wing to tie it together. Not really sure if Ace is that guy, and they totally blew the Cody Williams pick (one before Matas!). I think they’re fine tanking this one last year, especially with Kessler out and their defense being the worst in the league, but they def need a step forward next year.
Kessler looks to be the only one in that group who plays defense. I read the Wizards want to offer him. You think Bulls should make a play for him?
Would definitely look into it but does seem at least like the Jazz are pretty committed to keeping him...as they should be given how much their defense sucks lol
Yes, the Jazz definitely want to keep him, we'd need to test the limits of their commitment. We need a center, I was wondering whether you think he is worth making a big offer to.
Looks like Danny Ainge took this personally! 😂😂
Haha! I'm not surprised he follows this site.
Ok, so Jamal Collier said today about Giannis “The Miami Heat, Minnesota Timberwolves, Golden State Warriors and New York Knicks are among the most active suitors for a deal before the deadline, sources told ESPN.”
So yeah, that makes sense and probably confirms the Bulls aren’t in the conversation.
I’m starting to believe it’s going to be an odd deadline where AK makes a couple of moves but doesn’t totally commit to selling or buying. Like, he’ll trade Coby, acquire Mathurin, and keep everyone else.
the bulls have no buisness going after Giannis, and I dont like a direct rival getting a ton of picks from us
I think the Bulls direct rivals are the Hawks and a one-sided rivalry with the Heat
I think trading Coby is a commitment to selling, and would be a stronger indicator than anything he's done at prior deadlines
Unless they internally view Coby as a LaVine-esque loser? But that still would be more forward thinking - if incorrect - than usual.
I really wouldn't get why they'd then acquire Mathurin, who is worse and also up for a payday. Maybe a second draft guy who is under contract a bit longer like Dillingham I could see.
Can't remember where I read this (maybe from Elias on si.com) but KC Johnson made it seem like the Bulls are exploring the market for both Ayo and Coby, but they really only want to trade one or the other and they'd prefer that be Coby.
Personally, I don't see why they want to trade just one. Both probably have positive value are pretty replaceable on this team. Why not just take the best offer for both? And I especially don't understand why they'd want to keep Coby if they trade Ayo. It's clear Coby and Giddey don't really work that well together, especially on defense. Trade him for somebody that fits the team better and won't require you shelling out ~$25 million this summer.
Yeah, there will be a bunch of guards to choose from this summer. The only real upgrade from Coby will be Reaves, but as you say we could get someone cheaper who also plays a little better defense. Grimes, for instance, or Kevin Porter.
I have to give myself credit in not consuming any KC Johnson rumor content anymore. Like he was on The Score today, and had his house organ podcast, and I didn't bother listening. He doesn't know anything that the front office doesn't want out there
I did see in an aggregation of his latest that KC was 'emphatic' in saying that AK is not buying into recent play (I assume the 5 game winning streak, not the losing streak) and that affecting his deadline attitude. I'll believe it when I see it.
My safe assumption is that they'll do nothing and take a victory lap for being smart about what the market would give them and tout the progress a younger roster is making.
My cynical take is that they'll sell off some parts as a hedge against missing the play-in so that they coud say they were right there, but decided to re-tool for a big step forward next year.
Either way, I expect no moves that can be defended by anyone other than the idiots who always say let's see what they do this summer or clearly there was no market for these guys.
MJ was a lifetime ago. Rose has been gone for a generation. Bulls fans are masochists.
I would welcome the sell off parts move! Yes ultimately cynical reduction of payroll and can-kicking, but better than waiting until you can't sell at all
It's been 3 straight deadlines of 'we're trying to make the play-in', so that is what I expect. With a little bit of 'we owe it to the group to see when they're healthy'
we should have a report concerning Bulls fans health...
Run a thousand simulations with hundreds of different GM's, and in none of them do the Bulls intentionally tank or go appreciably over the salary cap, IMO. Those are conditions of employment. Rather than trash AKME, better to advocate that no one accept the Bulls' GM job. You're howling at the moon. House rules: Posit that there are constraints on AKME's options. Evaluate them guided by the tactics at their disposal.
Howling at the moon? C'mon now.
Shaking his fist at the clouds, mebbe. . .
The vitriol hurled at AKME is Biblical. If the pressure is too great, address your opinions to Reinsdorf. Just like the small market franchises, the Bulls have limitations, but theirs are based on policies. The "promise" is that once the Bulls have a strong young core, they'll spend mega money on contracts for mega stars. In the mean time, I'd rather hear more about the players than about the writers' feelings.
It's his site, he can write what he wants. I've been on here for 15 years, it's been a pretty good place, lots of knowledgeable fans, like yourself. A lot of people are frustrated with the Bulls right now, for good reason, and yfBb has a pretty good handle on that.
Well, I'm giving yfBB feedback, maybe a minority perspective (percentage not racial). I've been on blogs forever but Substack since only recently, so I don't have the perspective or loyalty on yfBB. My guess is that the next Bulls milestone is May-June 2027, and think that after Jerry Reinsdorf the Bulls might make similar generational steps as the Blackhawks did. They have the wherewithal.
Even with the restraints the Reinsdorfs puts on the front office, AK still sucks at his job.
The Reinsdorfs cheapness and fear of tanking has nothing to do with AK’s overall poor draft history or his refusal to move on from players when it’s time.
He can be much more active in his job and still meet the Reinsdorfs dumb demands.
Well those are two specific criticisms. Going from zero to something in 2021 was good, not great, but necessary. Resigning Coby and Ayo was very good, PWill baffling. Drafting Buzelis and Essengue could be very good. Reinsdorf seems to give his GMs 5+ years and a couple rebuild attempts. On AKME's contracts, the clock is ticking. I'm not standing on the building's ledge.
I would be surprised if the Clippers find anyone to take Harden in the next two days. If they are worried he will pout and not play, maybe they'd be interested in Coby and Ayo. They have a first and two seconds they could give us.
Current rumor is that he’s going to Cleveland for Darius Garland.
Yep, but Cavs want picks. And Garland is hurt. And anyway Clips are trying to clear space after next year. Lots of reasons for that deal to not happen.
Jaden Ivey and Mike Conley incoming...
Per Shams:
Chicago, Minnesota and Detroit have agreed to a multi-team deal that sends Jaden Ivey and Mike Conley Jr. to the Bulls and Kevin Huerter and Dario Saric to the Pistons, sources tell ESPN. Detroit also receives a 2026 first-round protected swap from Minnesota.
Is this just a salary dump for Minnesota? A few more details to come, I'd think.
For Saric and Huerter. Ivey is one of those “young players with experience “ that AKME love so much. Conley is most likely a buyout candidate.
I dont hate this trade. Can the bulls move Conley still...he makes some sense on the lakers and rockets.
I'd expect that Conley can be traded again before the deadline as the Bulls can simply wait for it to be official and then make it a multi-team trade. Else, Conley could still be traded, but couldn't be aggregated
at $10.7M though I don't think any team will trade for Conley that actually wants him. He isn't valuable as a player anymore, and the Wolves just said he's not even that valuable as a locker room guy
Bulls just traded for Ivey!
I like taking a chance on him. I assume this confirms Coby is being traded.
I also sincerely doubt the Bulls would trade for Ivey if they aren’t seriously considering retaining him once he becomes a RFA this summer. So I think you can expect his new contract to be part of where this offseason’s money goes.
I'm holding off on analysis for the Jaden Ivey acquisition until we see what happens with Coby
it is TECHNICALLY, bare minimum, the kind of trade I was hoping they'd do, selling off of their current rotation for an asset. BUT:
They're letting go the least significant rotation player (Huerter)
They're acquiring the least significant kind of asset (Ivey, who is an upcoming restricted free agent)
Yeah - hard to be mad about a Huerter for Ivey swap. They're both expiring, and you get a look at Ivey and hold his restricted free agent rights. Maybe they flip Conley for something, but most likely a buyout. Especially since it seems Minnesota paid the price of a 1st round swap (moderately valuable to the Pistons) to get off of him.
can't help but think that the Bulls are taking the 'young player with experience' over a pick.
BUT, while I don't think getting a look at Ivey, when they could have pursued him in restricted free agency, is that valuable in most cases...with Ivey's injury concerns it may be worth it.
of course since this is the Bulls, they're going to sign Ivey to a massive extension and THEN find out he's missing a leg.
Ja morant is gonna probably get moved now too eh?