Can't wait for Zach to come back and beat the Hornets twice and AK decide that's enough evidence to keep Zach around.
In other news, anyone else see Pat slap Coby's hand away on the bench during last night's game? Coby was standing in front of him with his hand held out waiting for Pat to high five it (you know, like how all the guys do when they come to the bench. not sure if that's a team rule or what). Anyway, Pat didn't do anything for a couple seconds and then finally slapped at it in what appeared to be frustration.
I don't think it was frustration towards Coby though, as I know the two of them are close. I think Pat was genuinely mad at himself for how poorly he was playing last night. I'm not trying to be Stacey and draw some sort of silver lining that Pat is starting to show emotion or something like that. I just thought it was interesting that I think that's the first time I've seen him visibly angry/frustrated since he's been a Bull.
I'm expecting four straight threes from him in the final minute of the game to erase an 11 point deficit and win the game! AK will immediately be Googling how to extend Zach's extension.
it'd be great if it inspired Charlotte to trade for him
I used to think they didn't make sense but if the price is this low now...like I'm not crazy for thinking Hayward (expiring), and 1 or 2 rookie scale guys and second round picks is better than what the Lakers will offer
I agree, and if I were another team I'd probably get involved just because the price is so low. You get to sell some tickets and have a great jersey model next year and maybe sell your fans on the CRAZY idea that, well, maybe Zach isn't an MVP candidate, but he helps you sign free agents! 😞
Two and a half years ago this team was put together . It was scrappy, athletic at the guard, missing size at the 4/5 spot, and missing three point shooting.
Where are we now? Same team construction same strengths, same flaws, same record, same post season hopes.
I have to assume this team will be blown up, but the management and ownership have defied this expectation before. I would expect that next year would be a great time to tank for a guy like Cooper Flagg, but that means a commitment to be bad that I am not sure Resindorf is ok with.
Dalen Terry is kind of fun, in the same way trying to make a Chopped basket out of all the spare stuff in your house is. Like, fun concept, some of the ingredients are good, and then the finished product is something like garlic peanut butter risotto with a milk and ketchup smoothie.
Dalen Terry is now focusing on the (very few) things he can do (run, pass some, defend with intensity) to the point where he refuses to do anything else. There were quite a few times against the Knicks where he found himself alone in the paint nobody around him but he didn't look at the basket once.
Somebody needs to tell Donovan about the 2 forwards he has that are 6'8 and 6'9 that would be better to use as center than a guy 6'4. What is the matter with this coach? Stop sending these guys to the G league and let them play more than 1 minute. It looks like the more money you make the more minutes you play. Unless you are short handed. Small ball ain't working against Embiid or Giannis. He is working the starters to death that is why they are to tired to shoot the ball in the 4th. Under Donovan, the bench guys except Ayo are getting less than 10 minutes a game, how are they ever going to be consistent?
Zach is never going to play off-ball. Putting him in situations where he even tries to share the ball is fatal with his latent poor decision-making. He'll play hero ball, they'll smoke the Hornets then it will be Return of the UnWatchaBulls.
AKME needs to make a move. Coby bought them a couple weeks but that was destined to be fleeting. Zach has been a distraction from the equally large decisions they have to make on Demar and Caruso. The lack of a proactive vision or plan is self-evident and I'm wondering how much longer I can watch them bumbling around, stuck in the dark.
Trade Demar. Trade Caruso. The 9th seed does not matter. Let's position ourselves to win long term.
Making moves takes GM skills and money. Why do all that when you can get the same euphoria by liberal application of delusion, selective memory, and moving goalposts?
But the return does. I'd like to put some handles on what people think the "assets" they get back for DeMar are going to be. These are the guardrails I think most people agree are realistic:
1. Due to age, etc., teams that want him are probably limited to contenders, which means over the cap and probably luxury tax.
2. That also means they have to send equivalent salary back.
3. That also means they probably don't have many draft picks, and what they do they're looking to spend carefully, not send on a flyer for a guy they will have for 2 months and might not even intend to re-sign.
If the answer is "a late first," when is that first and what team is sending it? Who are the contracts coming back? There are multiple sites that make all of this really easy to map out. I did this exercise and the results are not what I'd want. Getting guys who have extra years on their contract often means paying the equivalent of $20 million for a shitty draft pick 3 years from now. Which is a bad deal.
Not that you're saying this but we had no end of people talking about the Thunder graciously giving us some of their picks for a player that doesn't even really fit with what they're doing there, as if they'll suddenly abandon the long-term strategy that got them all those picks in the first place.
Bulls only hope is a Lakers panic trade that returns Austin Reaves. The same way Lebron 's complaining made them trade for Westbrook is what I hope happens again here. He's already told the Lakers to fire Ham (through Klutch's lackey Shams).
I see them sending out Rui + D'Angelo and maybe a face-saving pick. Not sure if the Bulls want them both though. Maybe they will rope in a third team to take Russell. I could see the Knicks using him in that Quickley spot even though pretty much no one on earth is high on Russell. And they could send out Fournier's expiring.
I agree that another team would need to be involved as a trade for those players makes no financial sense for the Bulls. Rui is on the books for 2 more seasons and DLo has a player option. So at a minimum the Bulls would be on the hook for over $35M next season in 2 players who are way worse than Zach. Zach makes $43M next year, so there's some savings but not enough for the Bulls to sign anyone good in free agency.
there's a theory that simply breaking Zach's contract down into cheaper/worse chunks would be then easier to trade in the future. But that would be more appropriate for a team that's good at making trades, not the Bulls
Getting off Russell for something useful (which would not include Fournier) is probably the single biggest challenge there. I just don't see any upside at all to having him on the Bulls. Rui is "fine" as a guy who showed he was capable of playing playoff level ball and he plays a position we (and every other team) need.
Barring any other moves for PHI, I could see flipping DLo to the 76ers for Marcus Morris as an expiring and a 2nd. Morris is potentially useful as depth at the 4, but maybe they'd just waive him or buy him out. Fournier has a team option for next year, so I'd be fine taking him back (and maybe waiving) for DLo as long as some kind of modest draft compensation came along with him. Not exactly thrilling stuff, but I don't see a reason for DLo on the Bulls, either.
Seems that after that Golden State game last night, they could use some scoring. I could see the Lakers and Warriors both kicking tires on Lavine - personally, I would rather have a GSW package around Kuminga, Moody and the corpse of CP3 than any poo poo platter the Lakers could offer...
Same - GSW has felt like a good fit as a partner to me for some time. CP3 is non-guaranteed next year, and Kuminga and Moody could both possibly benefit from a change of scenery. Warriors would be a great situation for Zach, but who knows what Kerr's actual assessment of him is from the Olympics. Could also see adding Caruso to juice the return.
Also Kuminga has allegedly "lost faith" in Kerr, per an article in the Athletic today. Would be interesting to see how he'd pair with Pat. Also a little insurance should somebody throw down some crazy offer for PWill.
OK maybe they'll be more desperate for a guard now that CP3 is hurt. They need ballhandling for non-Curry minutes and ::Tobias Funke meme:: maybe Zach can work for them
yeah I was more forceful on this on TwXtter but not in the post:
the LaVine trade market is now 100% on other teams' desperation, there is nothing to be gained by LaVine playing. So maybe AK should get some revenge and keep Zach out, it doesn't actually harm anything outside of Zach's "reputation".
Then again, January Bulls basketball is about as low impact as it gets, and I suppose technically Zach has to prove he's ambulatory. I'd think Klutch could just tell other teams 'you know this foot thing is fake, right?"
What’s remarkable is as outclassed as the Bulls are by the top 8 or so teams in the league, we’re also so much better than the bottom 5 teams. Unfortunately the Pistons are showing Reinsdorf just how bad it can get.
I wonder if the only way to get a good pick back for Zach is to trade him for the Simmons contract.
Bulls, Raps, Hawks and Nets are clearly in a certain strata together. I think you take any of those four teams and have one guy go on a hot streak, it's enough for them to put together a little run before falling back into malaise. Everybody will over-react a bit when it's happening and then get depressed again. Welcome to the bargaining stage!
idk if the Nets are going to have a "good pick" for awhile. This year's pick goes straight up to the Rockets, next year the have:
1. the Suns' pick which might be the best
2. their own pick is a conditional swap where they get the worst of Houston, OKC and their own pick.
2026 seems to go straight to the Rockets again. Maybe that Suns pick looks great in 2027?
It's incredible how long the Bulls have occupied that exact spot. An incredible commitment to mediocrity. Can we get Jerry into the Hall of Fame twice?
I would make that trade straight up...Simmons would actually fill a couple of needs for this team as an offensive initiator and defensive stalwart. I kinda like the following line-up:
The Wizards are also looking like a good cautionary tale, It's interesting to see how awful they are, because on paper they're not without some talent. Guys at every position who are acknowledged as capable role players who might even start on a better team (Gafford, Kuzma, Deni, Poole, Jones)... but whom together are clearly pretty bad.
Wizards seem to be following a "vicious circle" stealth tank strategy. Everyone can see they're tanking, but they have to put up appearances with (as you say, somewhat competent) players and still lose. What I saw was that they pull their starters much earlier and play them much less than normal via 1st half rotations. Their second unit is actually where the tank happens: they're bad, and you're going from Kuzma, Poole, Jones and Gafford to Kispert and the ghosts of Gallinari and Muscala. Hideous. The second unit then falls into a deep hole, which is used as justification for never bringing the starters back in. Their top 5 players are all pretty young so they should be playing a ton. Instead Kuzma is the only guy on the roster playing 30mpg+ and I suspect that's because his agent will raise hell if he's not getting 20 shots and hitting some easy contract performance bonuses.
Really good point. This is probably the optimal tanking approach and I think the one that teams doing a good job of tanking employ.
Theres no need to tear the team down to the studs, just play the better players less. By having them around, you can still, when needed employ respectable lineups and evaluate the young guys too. Its really a win win strategy for losing.
Only Dudley Do-Right teams like the Bulls seem to have not figured this out. I guess the Bulls kind of tried it, but were so dumb at implementing it that they got the league coming down on them .
I actually think that must destroy the fabric of your team because players no longer earn playing time or get rewarded for helping you win basketball games.
When you tear it down, the coach and players all just get to play/coach to the best of their ability and work on improving as much as they can. And ideally you received future picks so you have more chances to be right about the teenagers you draft.
I want to move that discussion from the abstract to the specific example of the Wizards. Their starting 5 has been insanely healthy (I think they've missed like a combined 4 or 5 games). The second, horribly bad group includes their last 1st round pick, Bilal Coulibaly, who looks like a really interesting player but is having his ups and downs. With this he gets a lot of playing time but he isn't given a starting slot because he isn't really obviously better than the guys in front of him. Nobody else on the bench really seems to be doing much to stake out more playing time (though I don't think that's the goal, more on that in a minute), so I'm not sure who's justifiably upset about it.
Of the starting 5, Poole is playing like complete garbage and it's hard to argue he should be getting 10 more minutes a game to proliferate more garbage. Maybe that's Washington's fault, but it seems like he's on a trajectory that began with a haymaker from Draymond Green about 15 months ago. Tyus Jones is for the first time in his career a starting PG out of the gate and is playing more minutes than he ever has before. He's not going to play more elsewhere unless it's a very niche situation. Same goes for Gafford: 25mpg this season, that's a career high and the max for what he can do and how often he fouls. Deni Avdija has been pretty inconsistent, maybe this is why but again he's not getting 27mpg on too many other teams. Nobody else is really worth mentioning.
Their goal is pretty obvious: they signed a bunch of players to trade them with what they already have at the deadline for picks. Some aren't working out — Gallinari seems cooked, Muscala is strictly just a body. No big deal there, it was worth the minimum contracts to see if they could turn them into a 2nd or two for a team that needed a stretch 4. They should get a nice squeeze for Tyus Jones from someone that wants him for the playoffs. Deni Avdija seems like at least a rotation player. Gafford is exactly what a lot of teams need and he makes the league average, so it's great value. After the deadline I would assume they have a different line-up, several more picks earned by doing pretty much nothing.
So I don't think there are any players upset they're not being "rewarded" as most of them are mid-rotation guys getting the most minutes of their lives and the others really haven't stood out at all.
> When you tear it down, the coach and players all just get to play/coach to the best of their ability and work on improving as much as they can. And ideally you received future picks so you have more chances to be right about the teenagers you draft.
They already traded two of their three most tradeable players. Much of what they have here is a lot of trade debris sloshing around from moving Beal and Porzingas. You can either dump it right away or try something like this. Seems like a worthwhile effort to me.
If Dalen Terry could develop any sort of offensive game, I'd be happy. His length and motor on defense make him a real pest. He just needs to add some other parts to his game to actually be an NBA player.
Curious how long Zach will play the team game. If Billy would regularly run him off of off-ball screens to get him open shots, maybe it would last long enough to get a decent trade for him.
All in favor of Vooch being limited to 25-30 minutes per game say I.
I'd also like Dalen to knock off the staring and flexing until he looks like a legit NBA player (though I will say I didn't notice him doing that stuff as much in the bits of the game I watched last night).
Completely agree. To me, that just enforces that he thinks he's better than he really is, and I think that's his biggest problem. He doesn't realize he's not a good NBA player, so he doesn't go out and play within his limits. He goes out and tries to play like he's a quality NBA player and makes a fool of himself.
With all that being said, I think last night was actually a solid showing for him. As you said, I didn't notice much tomfoolery from him last night and he also played mostly within his means. I kind of wonder if somebody pulled him aside before the game and said "Remember your place. Just because you're starting doesn't mean you're as good as the other starters. Let them do their thing while you stick to defense and shooting the open shot when you get it."
I think he'd instantly look better if he fully focused on his little part (mostly defense) when he's in the game. We don't need him out there trying to create offense. If he just focuses on what he knows how to do, hopefully the game will start to slow down for him and he can start working on the other areas of his game that need drastic improvement.
I feel like Dalen Terry has been playing within himself. One legitamately great dunk in a big moment aside, he doesn't seem to be overestimating his skill set. He's a plus defender with above average length and quickness, a plus passer, and a minus shooter with room to grow.
He looks sketchy as hell dribbling the ball, but that doesn't tend to lead to bad outcomes in the same way that Pwill's dribbling does. I prefer him to Javon Carter. I prefer him to Terry Taylor. And the crazy thing I'm going to say about him is I think he'll have a better career in the end than Pat Williams because he's got the energy and the quick decision making to be elite in his eventual role, which will be 4th through 7th on a good team.
I suppose I can't knock the optimism, but I can't say I agree. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for Terry to turn into a solid player and end up being better than Pat, but I don't see it. Prove me wrong, Dalen!
Can't wait for Zach to come back and beat the Hornets twice and AK decide that's enough evidence to keep Zach around.
In other news, anyone else see Pat slap Coby's hand away on the bench during last night's game? Coby was standing in front of him with his hand held out waiting for Pat to high five it (you know, like how all the guys do when they come to the bench. not sure if that's a team rule or what). Anyway, Pat didn't do anything for a couple seconds and then finally slapped at it in what appeared to be frustration.
I don't think it was frustration towards Coby though, as I know the two of them are close. I think Pat was genuinely mad at himself for how poorly he was playing last night. I'm not trying to be Stacey and draw some sort of silver lining that Pat is starting to show emotion or something like that. I just thought it was interesting that I think that's the first time I've seen him visibly angry/frustrated since he's been a Bull.
All this nothing must mean something. /bloomcounty
Zach beating the shit out of the Hornets: name a more iconic combination!
I'm expecting four straight threes from him in the final minute of the game to erase an 11 point deficit and win the game! AK will immediately be Googling how to extend Zach's extension.
it'd be great if it inspired Charlotte to trade for him
I used to think they didn't make sense but if the price is this low now...like I'm not crazy for thinking Hayward (expiring), and 1 or 2 rookie scale guys and second round picks is better than what the Lakers will offer
I agree, and if I were another team I'd probably get involved just because the price is so low. You get to sell some tickets and have a great jersey model next year and maybe sell your fans on the CRAZY idea that, well, maybe Zach isn't an MVP candidate, but he helps you sign free agents! 😞
Can't wait for Zach to return! Just thinking of all the things AK won't do to improve this team, woo!
"Zach LaVine returning from injury is better than any player we could acquire in a trade." —Karni, probably.
Honestly preparing myself for this outcome
Two and a half years ago this team was put together . It was scrappy, athletic at the guard, missing size at the 4/5 spot, and missing three point shooting.
Where are we now? Same team construction same strengths, same flaws, same record, same post season hopes.
I have to assume this team will be blown up, but the management and ownership have defied this expectation before. I would expect that next year would be a great time to tank for a guy like Cooper Flagg, but that means a commitment to be bad that I am not sure Resindorf is ok with.
Dalen Terry is kind of fun, in the same way trying to make a Chopped basket out of all the spare stuff in your house is. Like, fun concept, some of the ingredients are good, and then the finished product is something like garlic peanut butter risotto with a milk and ketchup smoothie.
It's not all coming together very nicely.
The Amy Schumer drunk Chopped skit is funny.
Dalen Terry is now focusing on the (very few) things he can do (run, pass some, defend with intensity) to the point where he refuses to do anything else. There were quite a few times against the Knicks where he found himself alone in the paint nobody around him but he didn't look at the basket once.
One thing I do know: if Grimes and McBride were on this team, you wouldn't be able to stand them either.
I dunno, I like Ayo just fine
If I were Zach I would humbly ask to come off the bench and play 20 mins maybe in the 3rd and 4th quarter for a few games
Somebody needs to tell Donovan about the 2 forwards he has that are 6'8 and 6'9 that would be better to use as center than a guy 6'4. What is the matter with this coach? Stop sending these guys to the G league and let them play more than 1 minute. It looks like the more money you make the more minutes you play. Unless you are short handed. Small ball ain't working against Embiid or Giannis. He is working the starters to death that is why they are to tired to shoot the ball in the 4th. Under Donovan, the bench guys except Ayo are getting less than 10 minutes a game, how are they ever going to be consistent?
Zach is never going to play off-ball. Putting him in situations where he even tries to share the ball is fatal with his latent poor decision-making. He'll play hero ball, they'll smoke the Hornets then it will be Return of the UnWatchaBulls.
AKME needs to make a move. Coby bought them a couple weeks but that was destined to be fleeting. Zach has been a distraction from the equally large decisions they have to make on Demar and Caruso. The lack of a proactive vision or plan is self-evident and I'm wondering how much longer I can watch them bumbling around, stuck in the dark.
Trade Demar. Trade Caruso. The 9th seed does not matter. Let's position ourselves to win long term.
Making moves takes GM skills and money. Why do all that when you can get the same euphoria by liberal application of delusion, selective memory, and moving goalposts?
> The 9th seed does not matter.
But the return does. I'd like to put some handles on what people think the "assets" they get back for DeMar are going to be. These are the guardrails I think most people agree are realistic:
1. Due to age, etc., teams that want him are probably limited to contenders, which means over the cap and probably luxury tax.
2. That also means they have to send equivalent salary back.
3. That also means they probably don't have many draft picks, and what they do they're looking to spend carefully, not send on a flyer for a guy they will have for 2 months and might not even intend to re-sign.
If the answer is "a late first," when is that first and what team is sending it? Who are the contracts coming back? There are multiple sites that make all of this really easy to map out. I did this exercise and the results are not what I'd want. Getting guys who have extra years on their contract often means paying the equivalent of $20 million for a shitty draft pick 3 years from now. Which is a bad deal.
Not that you're saying this but we had no end of people talking about the Thunder graciously giving us some of their picks for a player that doesn't even really fit with what they're doing there, as if they'll suddenly abandon the long-term strategy that got them all those picks in the first place.
Bulls only hope is a Lakers panic trade that returns Austin Reaves. The same way Lebron 's complaining made them trade for Westbrook is what I hope happens again here. He's already told the Lakers to fire Ham (through Klutch's lackey Shams).
Also, Pat stinks.
I see them sending out Rui + D'Angelo and maybe a face-saving pick. Not sure if the Bulls want them both though. Maybe they will rope in a third team to take Russell. I could see the Knicks using him in that Quickley spot even though pretty much no one on earth is high on Russell. And they could send out Fournier's expiring.
I agree that another team would need to be involved as a trade for those players makes no financial sense for the Bulls. Rui is on the books for 2 more seasons and DLo has a player option. So at a minimum the Bulls would be on the hook for over $35M next season in 2 players who are way worse than Zach. Zach makes $43M next year, so there's some savings but not enough for the Bulls to sign anyone good in free agency.
there's a theory that simply breaking Zach's contract down into cheaper/worse chunks would be then easier to trade in the future. But that would be more appropriate for a team that's good at making trades, not the Bulls
I think the Bulls are only allowed to make 1.5 trades every 5-7 years.
That math is too hard to figure out though, so they're just steering clear of trades altogether.
Getting off Russell for something useful (which would not include Fournier) is probably the single biggest challenge there. I just don't see any upside at all to having him on the Bulls. Rui is "fine" as a guy who showed he was capable of playing playoff level ball and he plays a position we (and every other team) need.
Barring any other moves for PHI, I could see flipping DLo to the 76ers for Marcus Morris as an expiring and a 2nd. Morris is potentially useful as depth at the 4, but maybe they'd just waive him or buy him out. Fournier has a team option for next year, so I'd be fine taking him back (and maybe waiving) for DLo as long as some kind of modest draft compensation came along with him. Not exactly thrilling stuff, but I don't see a reason for DLo on the Bulls, either.
Sixers want cap space this summer, so they will definitely avoid Russell
Seems that after that Golden State game last night, they could use some scoring. I could see the Lakers and Warriors both kicking tires on Lavine - personally, I would rather have a GSW package around Kuminga, Moody and the corpse of CP3 than any poo poo platter the Lakers could offer...
Same - GSW has felt like a good fit as a partner to me for some time. CP3 is non-guaranteed next year, and Kuminga and Moody could both possibly benefit from a change of scenery. Warriors would be a great situation for Zach, but who knows what Kerr's actual assessment of him is from the Olympics. Could also see adding Caruso to juice the return.
Also Kuminga has allegedly "lost faith" in Kerr, per an article in the Athletic today. Would be interesting to see how he'd pair with Pat. Also a little insurance should somebody throw down some crazy offer for PWill.
I dunno, they really need size
and they are so far into the tax that they can't/won't take on additional salary, so they probably have just one move in them
OK maybe they'll be more desperate for a guard now that CP3 is hurt. They need ballhandling for non-Curry minutes and ::Tobias Funke meme:: maybe Zach can work for them
yeah I was more forceful on this on TwXtter but not in the post:
the LaVine trade market is now 100% on other teams' desperation, there is nothing to be gained by LaVine playing. So maybe AK should get some revenge and keep Zach out, it doesn't actually harm anything outside of Zach's "reputation".
Then again, January Bulls basketball is about as low impact as it gets, and I suppose technically Zach has to prove he's ambulatory. I'd think Klutch could just tell other teams 'you know this foot thing is fake, right?"
Scenario: Lebron wanted Levine. Then he changed his mind. All there is to it. Levine got hung out to dry by his representation.
What’s remarkable is as outclassed as the Bulls are by the top 8 or so teams in the league, we’re also so much better than the bottom 5 teams. Unfortunately the Pistons are showing Reinsdorf just how bad it can get.
I wonder if the only way to get a good pick back for Zach is to trade him for the Simmons contract.
Bulls, Raps, Hawks and Nets are clearly in a certain strata together. I think you take any of those four teams and have one guy go on a hot streak, it's enough for them to put together a little run before falling back into malaise. Everybody will over-react a bit when it's happening and then get depressed again. Welcome to the bargaining stage!
idk if the Nets are going to have a "good pick" for awhile. This year's pick goes straight up to the Rockets, next year the have:
1. the Suns' pick which might be the best
2. their own pick is a conditional swap where they get the worst of Houston, OKC and their own pick.
2026 seems to go straight to the Rockets again. Maybe that Suns pick looks great in 2027?
I would love a that 2027 unprotected Suns pick. That has a chance to be a high lottery pick given the Suns long-term trajectory.
It's incredible how long the Bulls have occupied that exact spot. An incredible commitment to mediocrity. Can we get Jerry into the Hall of Fame twice?
I'd take Ben Simmons for LaVine
I would make that trade straight up...Simmons would actually fill a couple of needs for this team as an offensive initiator and defensive stalwart. I kinda like the following line-up:
White
Caruso
Simmons
Demar
Vuc
Ayo
PWill
Drummond
Simmons is never playing again. I've held that stance since 2022 and you can't prove to me that I'm wrong
The six games he's played this year would like a word, sir!
Ugh.
Simmons can get all Carters minutes
The Wizards are also looking like a good cautionary tale, It's interesting to see how awful they are, because on paper they're not without some talent. Guys at every position who are acknowledged as capable role players who might even start on a better team (Gafford, Kuzma, Deni, Poole, Jones)... but whom together are clearly pretty bad.
Wizards seem to be following a "vicious circle" stealth tank strategy. Everyone can see they're tanking, but they have to put up appearances with (as you say, somewhat competent) players and still lose. What I saw was that they pull their starters much earlier and play them much less than normal via 1st half rotations. Their second unit is actually where the tank happens: they're bad, and you're going from Kuzma, Poole, Jones and Gafford to Kispert and the ghosts of Gallinari and Muscala. Hideous. The second unit then falls into a deep hole, which is used as justification for never bringing the starters back in. Their top 5 players are all pretty young so they should be playing a ton. Instead Kuzma is the only guy on the roster playing 30mpg+ and I suspect that's because his agent will raise hell if he's not getting 20 shots and hitting some easy contract performance bonuses.
Really good point. This is probably the optimal tanking approach and I think the one that teams doing a good job of tanking employ.
Theres no need to tear the team down to the studs, just play the better players less. By having them around, you can still, when needed employ respectable lineups and evaluate the young guys too. Its really a win win strategy for losing.
Only Dudley Do-Right teams like the Bulls seem to have not figured this out. I guess the Bulls kind of tried it, but were so dumb at implementing it that they got the league coming down on them .
I actually think that must destroy the fabric of your team because players no longer earn playing time or get rewarded for helping you win basketball games.
When you tear it down, the coach and players all just get to play/coach to the best of their ability and work on improving as much as they can. And ideally you received future picks so you have more chances to be right about the teenagers you draft.
I want to move that discussion from the abstract to the specific example of the Wizards. Their starting 5 has been insanely healthy (I think they've missed like a combined 4 or 5 games). The second, horribly bad group includes their last 1st round pick, Bilal Coulibaly, who looks like a really interesting player but is having his ups and downs. With this he gets a lot of playing time but he isn't given a starting slot because he isn't really obviously better than the guys in front of him. Nobody else on the bench really seems to be doing much to stake out more playing time (though I don't think that's the goal, more on that in a minute), so I'm not sure who's justifiably upset about it.
Of the starting 5, Poole is playing like complete garbage and it's hard to argue he should be getting 10 more minutes a game to proliferate more garbage. Maybe that's Washington's fault, but it seems like he's on a trajectory that began with a haymaker from Draymond Green about 15 months ago. Tyus Jones is for the first time in his career a starting PG out of the gate and is playing more minutes than he ever has before. He's not going to play more elsewhere unless it's a very niche situation. Same goes for Gafford: 25mpg this season, that's a career high and the max for what he can do and how often he fouls. Deni Avdija has been pretty inconsistent, maybe this is why but again he's not getting 27mpg on too many other teams. Nobody else is really worth mentioning.
Their goal is pretty obvious: they signed a bunch of players to trade them with what they already have at the deadline for picks. Some aren't working out — Gallinari seems cooked, Muscala is strictly just a body. No big deal there, it was worth the minimum contracts to see if they could turn them into a 2nd or two for a team that needed a stretch 4. They should get a nice squeeze for Tyus Jones from someone that wants him for the playoffs. Deni Avdija seems like at least a rotation player. Gafford is exactly what a lot of teams need and he makes the league average, so it's great value. After the deadline I would assume they have a different line-up, several more picks earned by doing pretty much nothing.
So I don't think there are any players upset they're not being "rewarded" as most of them are mid-rotation guys getting the most minutes of their lives and the others really haven't stood out at all.
> When you tear it down, the coach and players all just get to play/coach to the best of their ability and work on improving as much as they can. And ideally you received future picks so you have more chances to be right about the teenagers you draft.
They already traded two of their three most tradeable players. Much of what they have here is a lot of trade debris sloshing around from moving Beal and Porzingas. You can either dump it right away or try something like this. Seems like a worthwhile effort to me.
If Dalen Terry could develop any sort of offensive game, I'd be happy. His length and motor on defense make him a real pest. He just needs to add some other parts to his game to actually be an NBA player.
Curious how long Zach will play the team game. If Billy would regularly run him off of off-ball screens to get him open shots, maybe it would last long enough to get a decent trade for him.
All in favor of Vooch being limited to 25-30 minutes per game say I.
I'd also like Dalen to knock off the staring and flexing until he looks like a legit NBA player (though I will say I didn't notice him doing that stuff as much in the bits of the game I watched last night).
Completely agree. To me, that just enforces that he thinks he's better than he really is, and I think that's his biggest problem. He doesn't realize he's not a good NBA player, so he doesn't go out and play within his limits. He goes out and tries to play like he's a quality NBA player and makes a fool of himself.
With all that being said, I think last night was actually a solid showing for him. As you said, I didn't notice much tomfoolery from him last night and he also played mostly within his means. I kind of wonder if somebody pulled him aside before the game and said "Remember your place. Just because you're starting doesn't mean you're as good as the other starters. Let them do their thing while you stick to defense and shooting the open shot when you get it."
I think he'd instantly look better if he fully focused on his little part (mostly defense) when he's in the game. We don't need him out there trying to create offense. If he just focuses on what he knows how to do, hopefully the game will start to slow down for him and he can start working on the other areas of his game that need drastic improvement.
I feel like Dalen Terry has been playing within himself. One legitamately great dunk in a big moment aside, he doesn't seem to be overestimating his skill set. He's a plus defender with above average length and quickness, a plus passer, and a minus shooter with room to grow.
He looks sketchy as hell dribbling the ball, but that doesn't tend to lead to bad outcomes in the same way that Pwill's dribbling does. I prefer him to Javon Carter. I prefer him to Terry Taylor. And the crazy thing I'm going to say about him is I think he'll have a better career in the end than Pat Williams because he's got the energy and the quick decision making to be elite in his eventual role, which will be 4th through 7th on a good team.
I suppose I can't knock the optimism, but I can't say I agree. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for Terry to turn into a solid player and end up being better than Pat, but I don't see it. Prove me wrong, Dalen!
CP3 injured again, so now we trade Zach for him and Kuminga?
We need to sign Skylar Mays off waivers, he’s a good and cheap PG prospect.
Heat are showcasing Nikola Jovic. Could we get him and Caleb Martin for Caruso?
Mays just signed with Lakers on a 2-way
Welp, at least we still have Henri Drell! Smh
All this season on As The Bulls Turn