I believe I'm on record that this is a lottery team regardless of whether Zach Lavine is on it or not. Who are they clearly better than? What matchup edge do the Bulls have? I don't think they beat Detroit the other night if Jalen Duren is healthy. Leave the names and past "glories" aside, there are maybe 5-6 rosters with less talent. Their most impactful player comes off the bench and said impact is made by putting forth full effort on defense. You'd think I was describing a high school team if you only read that last sentence.
I think they could make the Play-In again and possibly win the games needed to get into the actual playoffs. This would require starting Carter and bringing Coby off the bench. Not a knock on Coby but if Lavine+DeRozan are your primary scorers you need a 3&D PG to play off them
I think swapping Zach for a competent PG would dramatically improve the team. My preference is a total teardown, but if they want to stay competitive (you know they do) getting rid of Zach and putting in someone who can actually run an offense is the way to go.
Bulls trade Zach and get absolutely fleeced. They end up not really getting worse since Zach isn't a plus asset anyway. DeMar leaves after the season is over because he's sick of mediocrity. Lonzo comes back only for AK to find out he's no longer an NBA-caliber player due to his injuries. They re-sign Pat to a $150 million deal because they have nothing better to spend their money on. Vooch gets 20 shots a night and couldn't be happier despite the team being absolute dog shit. #DoubleDoubleMachine
Apologies in advance for coming here to dump all my trauma and cynicism but it's how I get through the day:
Which teams have a low level former All-Star, preferably past his prime with only 1-2 ASG selections under his belt? I'd start there. Probably throw in a wing who can't shoot. Plus they should be amenable to receiving a 1st round pick to take on Zach's contract. Or AK might throw in a pick anyway as an act of generosity. "Winning trades" is such an outdated capitalistic concept anyway.
Deal with Charlotte for Gordon Hayward? Try to get FVV from Houston? I'm thinking guys who are "a name" but not too big of a name.
I'm at the same conclusion. Especially after reading KC's tweet yesterday that seemingly bemoans the fact AKME inherited a rebuild and have stated repeatedly that their goal is "making the playoffs."
They're basically arguing that purgatory is better than hell with those aims, and I think they're comfortable enough with that premise to trade Zach for parts that may conceivably help them back-in to a play-in spot. Which is just--IDK--the worst.
Yeah, it feels like malpractice to try to salvage basically anyone from this current roster. They need to completely blow this team up and start over. I fucking hate tank humping, but trying to build a winner out of #7 draft picks has also sucked.
Agreed. But... we're in a situation where seemingly the only viable path to improvement is to get extraordinarily lucky. Like, no one trusts this FO to build through free agency. They clearly don't like making trades. They draft like shit and young players don't develop in their system. They will probably have to tank for 5-6 years and have a generational talent fall into their laps. It's going to get worse before it gets better, but we need to first pull the plug on these zombie bulls and speedrun our descent to the abyss. And maybe if we're embarrassing enough the league will step in and force the Reinsdorfs to install new leadership.
I only know that AKME will get clowned. Every deal he's made has been bad. And this is coming from someone that liked the original Vooch deal! Back then I thought that the Bulls had two seasons to catch lightning in a bottle. If it didn't work, trade Vooch and recover some assets. I knew the Bulls wouldn't get back what they gave up. That was ok though. Take a shot. The only way the deal would go bad is if it obviously didn't work and then the Bulls resigned Vooch. #Welp. Truthfully, I didn't mind resigning Vooch, if the deal made sense. It wasn't about the dollars as much as the years. #Welp. AKME only makes bad deals. The LaVine deal will be another one.
Can someone clarify so next years bulls pick in 2025 is top ten protected I think that goes to spurs from demar trade. So next year they should in lottery for cooper flag sweepstakes. But akme will want to stay mediocre anyways next season so Low odds in lottery.
ok I phrased that wrong, I think they figure they can just get the pick commitment over with in 2025, then their draft and cap (since Lonzo will medically retire) will be clean!
Apparently attendance numbers are waaaay down. Hopefully Jerry realizes that we don’t want any version of this team anymore. Tanking sucks because losing a lot sucks, but if you get young, promising players and draft picks as a result, the fans will get behind that more than a first round exit playoff team going absolutely nowhere.
They're sorta down, they're 7th in average attendance and 5th in the total gate, but 23rd in % of capacity filled (93%), which is a problem but also suggests they're not papering (giving away tickets to fill the room or selling them at some token price). I would guess this really isn't a problem for Jerry yet.
If you're referring to that post someone made on Reddit, it was kind of false. The Bulls are like 25th in attendance when counting both home and away games. As granvillator said, they're 7th in home attendance, which is what actually matters. To be fair, they've been first the last two seasons, so 7th is definitely worse. I don't think it's super bad though. Hopefully it continues to drop as the season goes along.
gosh, I'm just thinking through and knocking down more suitors the more I think about it
Memphis - makes sense now, but Bane's salary jumps to $35M next year
Nets - don't think LaVine considers himself 'under' Bridges, and they have Cam Thomas doing LaVine-lite for dirt cheap
Timberwolves - it's a new regime, and on-court it kinda fits, but Towns would have to be the one out, and I just don't think them or LaVine want a reunion
I agree but in terms of fit it's one of the best situations for Zach. The Thrashtors have too much of the same thing (lengthy defending wings) and could use a Zach.
maybe. Klutch represents De'Aaron Fox so perhaps that is all worked out behind the scenes in terms of who gets the ball late. It's not a big market though obviously.
I think the problem from the Kings perspective is that while LaVine would be an upgrade over Monk, it's not a big one and they do not need more offense.
Bane and Zack are both pure 2s....neither of them can play the 3 so i'm not sure how that fits unless they just say fuck it we need the offense and fuck the fit
Same goes for Minnesota.....That's Ant's team, why bring in another shot dominant 2?
I like the Charlotte idea, we can acquire a felon or two and Zach can pursue his destiny of cycling through all of LaVar Ball's sons until he finds one that doesn't explode upon contact to sunlight.
The Wizards are tanking... Any way we could convince them to take Zach off our hands for Tyus Jones & whoever else?
1. The Bulls get a PG with potential (biggest need) and get rid of Zach (addition by subtraction).
2. The Wizards could make Zach happy by making him the focal point of the offense while he's there and promise to trade him at next year's deadline to a contender.
3. The Wizards get a flashy player who won't ruin their tankathon and might lose them some additional games with buzzer beating failures on both ends of the court.
I just don't see a bad/irrelevant team being amenable for LaVine. And it's not entirely up to him but why would the Wizards bother paying him $40M even if it's some galaxy-brain tank move
Nate Duncan mentioned Utah and I just can't see that happening either. LaVine has been told he's a big-market star, and he believes it. Plus he wants to actually make the playoffs, but isn't good enough to take a bad team there.
I definitely don't think it would be near the top of his list, but I could see it playing to his ego. I can imagine him thinking Billy and his teammates are holding him back and he'd really be able to showcase his talent when he was the focal point of the offense.
That combined with a handshake deal to trade him at the deadline next year might sell him on it.
It's the best idea I've come up with that all parties might go for.
McCollum is a worse and older LaVine, and have to wait out his recovery from...collapsed lung...but I don't see the Pelicans taking on Zach's contract without moving McCollum. It runs one less year and deescalates, so in 2025-26 $15M less than LaVine.
Threw in Vuc for Valencuinas because the latter is expiring, and let's face it CJ is bad money so they should take some back in Vuc (plus he's slightly better than Jonas)
And New Orleans has several picks and young players you can choose from. I have zero confidence Bulls would choose the right ones, but still.
They'd probably not offer their best goodies because LaVine doesn't solve their size/defense problems (and Vuc certainly wouldn't either), but I do think LaVine would be fine slotting behind Zion and Ingram. Or they trade Ingram for a better fit later, and this is a relatively cheap upgrade from CJ->Zach
"Like I said last year, we had a team meeting," Williamson said, "and it was brought up, some things I could do better. Especially with like buying into the program. And right now, it’s tough right now but like I said right now I’m taking a little backseat right now. I’m trusting the process. I’m trying my best to buy in right now." (https://www.foxnews.com/sports/pelicans-zion-williamson-trying-my-best-buy-right-now)
Zion is already making public statements about not fitting in with his team. We're not getting some young burgeoning Star, we're not getting top-5 draft picks. I would take the risk on Zion's upside out of any conceivable offer you think the Bulls can get for Lavine. If Zion and Lavine are the main pieces, we can figure out the rest.
The Pels would be generous to throw in both Murphy, who looked amazing from deep before his meniscus turned into shredded wheat, and Lewis, who would immediately be the Bulls best point guard. I'd be thrilled with just one of them, or Jose Alvarado.
I honestly just was looking at any combination of 3 rookie scale contracts or first round picks. It doesn't matter to me if it's Trey Murphy or ::pauses to look at roster:: Jordan Hawkins
that Murphy has a meniscus tear and on the Pelicans means it's probably best we stay away
now those that are also upset that I'd consider LaVine an upgrade over CJ McOneLung...I dunno, really? If that's not true, then yeah dumb idea there's no match in New Orleans.
Is Lavine the least successful player to ever demand a trade? Like, there is no interest. Is he dogging it? How do you claim to be the best player on the team and dog it when you're the one who the team is supposedly built around. He still hasn't gotten over the fact that Derozan was better than him the last two years.
I think the Heat deals make the most sense from the Bulls perspective as they can throw in young players (Herro, Jokic, Jaquez) and salary (Lowry, Robinson, Herro again) while having two first round picks to offer. Its basically a worse version of the deal Portland turned down. Is Miami really interested in Lavine? That is a lot of salary. I honestly would rather have Herro and Duncan Robinson than Lavine. Maybe I'm crazy.
The Lakers would have to wait to the 15th, but they could offer some combo of Rui, Reaves, DLo, Christie, Vanderbilt and their pick. I honestly think if the Bulls got Rui/Reaves and the Lakers got Lavine they would be worse and we'd be better. But the Bulls seem to be focused on staying competitive.
One thing I disagree with conventional wisdom on - people are like "the Bulls won't trade Lavine for multiple first round picks because they are foolishly trying to stay competitive." I think its the opposite, no one with a high pick is going to trade for Lavine and people aren't willing to give up multiple first round picks. We know Lavine's value is less than Beal's and look what Washington got for Beal. Having said that, two bad teams to keep an eye are Detroit and Charlotte. They have high priced vets and young disappointing players the Bulls could sell to someone as being significant. I think those 4 teams - Heat, lakers, Charlotte, Detroit are the market. Don't see the Grizz. I think the salaries in New Orleans make taking Lavine on pretty tough.
For the Heat, unless Pat Riley has taken to heart all the hate Heat fans have given him this summer, he didn't want to give up Herro, Jokic, Jaquez for Dame. I can't see him doing it for Lavine. Herro is like a middle-class Lavine so if we are trading for him we would definitely need more.
For the Lakers, I would love to get 2 of the 3 Reeves/Rui/Vanderbilt and possible draft compensation.
I agree on Miami, as much as it makes sense for the Bulls to 'downgrade' from LaVine > Herro, that's why it doesn't make sense for Miami to pay for that privilege
This just seems like a Lakers thing to do. They are a Klutch-ran team at this point and LaVine played college there, they will pay up and take Zach's remaining contract. On the floor, it's a clear #3 option which would suit everyone well
Nothing can be done until Jan 15 with them
The money has to be somewhat close as they're hard capped. And have to consider roster spots, Bulls can't do a 1-for-5 trade. They have 1 open roster spot and can cut Terry Taylor
All that said, I'd do
LaVine+Drummond+Craig
for
Russell+Rui+Prince+Hood-Schifino+Hayes+2029first and a second
none of that is a great single asset, but does get you younger/cheaper, and positive draft capital
I feel like if we're going this route, let's play it to the hilt. I think you send Caruso before a limb falls off. Then make sure you get back Reaves and ideally Vanderbilt instead of Prince. In this idealized scenario I'd also be sending out Dalen to just be done with it.
Like you said, you're getting younger and cheaper - adding a lot of value contracts and some draft capital. I wouldn't expect the team to be any worse in the short term.
You are probably right - I'd suspect they could get a decent young player and a pick for Caruso elsewhere, assuming full limb-age. And after some further reading Lakers can't include Vanderbilt until March anyway.
Jesus, any more salt and I’ll have a heart attack!
I believe I'm on record that this is a lottery team regardless of whether Zach Lavine is on it or not. Who are they clearly better than? What matchup edge do the Bulls have? I don't think they beat Detroit the other night if Jalen Duren is healthy. Leave the names and past "glories" aside, there are maybe 5-6 rosters with less talent. Their most impactful player comes off the bench and said impact is made by putting forth full effort on defense. You'd think I was describing a high school team if you only read that last sentence.
Well they were literally in the lottery last year with everyone pretty much healthy and playing better than they are now.
I think they could make the Play-In again and possibly win the games needed to get into the actual playoffs. This would require starting Carter and bringing Coby off the bench. Not a knock on Coby but if Lavine+DeRozan are your primary scorers you need a 3&D PG to play off them
Just a reminder that when AKME took over, the Bulls were rated one of the teams with the brightest futures because of their assets.
Then they bet on Zach. And passed on Haliburton for Pat (and probably because they already had Coby). And gave up a ton of assets for Vooch.
Just bad decisions all around.
I think swapping Zach for a competent PG would dramatically improve the team. My preference is a total teardown, but if they want to stay competitive (you know they do) getting rid of Zach and putting in someone who can actually run an offense is the way to go.
Looking at the Grizzlies and trying to think if there's a way to make something like Brandon Clarke and Marcus Smart for LaVine and Caruso work.
Why does Memphis do this? And Smart isn't really a PG tbh
Just get rid of the guy for chump change. IDC anymore about him. I have never hated him and liked him to a point. But he is the problem.
He is A problem my friend, with the Bulls you can always have more!
At least he's not the system!
Prediction:
Bulls trade Zach and get absolutely fleeced. They end up not really getting worse since Zach isn't a plus asset anyway. DeMar leaves after the season is over because he's sick of mediocrity. Lonzo comes back only for AK to find out he's no longer an NBA-caliber player due to his injuries. They re-sign Pat to a $150 million deal because they have nothing better to spend their money on. Vooch gets 20 shots a night and couldn't be happier despite the team being absolute dog shit. #DoubleDoubleMachine
Apologies in advance for coming here to dump all my trauma and cynicism but it's how I get through the day:
Which teams have a low level former All-Star, preferably past his prime with only 1-2 ASG selections under his belt? I'd start there. Probably throw in a wing who can't shoot. Plus they should be amenable to receiving a 1st round pick to take on Zach's contract. Or AK might throw in a pick anyway as an act of generosity. "Winning trades" is such an outdated capitalistic concept anyway.
Deal with Charlotte for Gordon Hayward? Try to get FVV from Houston? I'm thinking guys who are "a name" but not too big of a name.
Is Rudy Gay still in the league?
I could see him being our big midseason signing lol
He got cut.
I'm at the same conclusion. Especially after reading KC's tweet yesterday that seemingly bemoans the fact AKME inherited a rebuild and have stated repeatedly that their goal is "making the playoffs."
They're basically arguing that purgatory is better than hell with those aims, and I think they're comfortable enough with that premise to trade Zach for parts that may conceivably help them back-in to a play-in spot. Which is just--IDK--the worst.
Yeah, it feels like malpractice to try to salvage basically anyone from this current roster. They need to completely blow this team up and start over. I fucking hate tank humping, but trying to build a winner out of #7 draft picks has also sucked.
#7 draft picks are lottery picks. Which is supposed to be the reason to tank. A bad front office results in bad plans and worse execution.
Agreed. But... we're in a situation where seemingly the only viable path to improvement is to get extraordinarily lucky. Like, no one trusts this FO to build through free agency. They clearly don't like making trades. They draft like shit and young players don't develop in their system. They will probably have to tank for 5-6 years and have a generational talent fall into their laps. It's going to get worse before it gets better, but we need to first pull the plug on these zombie bulls and speedrun our descent to the abyss. And maybe if we're embarrassing enough the league will step in and force the Reinsdorfs to install new leadership.
I only know that AKME will get clowned. Every deal he's made has been bad. And this is coming from someone that liked the original Vooch deal! Back then I thought that the Bulls had two seasons to catch lightning in a bottle. If it didn't work, trade Vooch and recover some assets. I knew the Bulls wouldn't get back what they gave up. That was ok though. Take a shot. The only way the deal would go bad is if it obviously didn't work and then the Bulls resigned Vooch. #Welp. Truthfully, I didn't mind resigning Vooch, if the deal made sense. It wasn't about the dollars as much as the years. #Welp. AKME only makes bad deals. The LaVine deal will be another one.
That extension has to be one of the worse things in recent bulls lore
Can someone clarify so next years bulls pick in 2025 is top ten protected I think that goes to spurs from demar trade. So next year they should in lottery for cooper flag sweepstakes. But akme will want to stay mediocre anyways next season so Low odds in lottery.
they own their 2024, but the 2025 is top 10 protected.
Also, the Spurs have Wemby and 6 first round picks in the next two years. Man, oh to be them...
Thanks I had the years backwards. Ugh 😑 giving away another first round pick for mid 3
it's top-10 protected in 2025, and top-8 in 2026
but then it converts to a second rounder
So I think it's way more likely don't tank and figure they can wait out the protection. Last year the pick they sent to Orlando was #11
ok I phrased that wrong, I think they figure they can just get the pick commitment over with in 2025, then their draft and cap (since Lonzo will medically retire) will be clean!
Apparently attendance numbers are waaaay down. Hopefully Jerry realizes that we don’t want any version of this team anymore. Tanking sucks because losing a lot sucks, but if you get young, promising players and draft picks as a result, the fans will get behind that more than a first round exit playoff team going absolutely nowhere.
fans may get behind it but I don't think they're more likely to go to the games. And it removes any chance of home play-in or playoff game
honestly, play-in game feels pretty far-fetched now anyway. Especially if they trade Lavine.
They're sorta down, they're 7th in average attendance and 5th in the total gate, but 23rd in % of capacity filled (93%), which is a problem but also suggests they're not papering (giving away tickets to fill the room or selling them at some token price). I would guess this really isn't a problem for Jerry yet.
If you're referring to that post someone made on Reddit, it was kind of false. The Bulls are like 25th in attendance when counting both home and away games. As granvillator said, they're 7th in home attendance, which is what actually matters. To be fair, they've been first the last two seasons, so 7th is definitely worse. I don't think it's super bad though. Hopefully it continues to drop as the season goes along.
gosh, I'm just thinking through and knocking down more suitors the more I think about it
Memphis - makes sense now, but Bane's salary jumps to $35M next year
Nets - don't think LaVine considers himself 'under' Bridges, and they have Cam Thomas doing LaVine-lite for dirt cheap
Timberwolves - it's a new regime, and on-court it kinda fits, but Towns would have to be the one out, and I just don't think them or LaVine want a reunion
Raptors - someone had an idea in the last thread about using them as a 3rd team where they send OG to the Sixers.
I think it makes sense, but similar problem with Nets (LaVine would think he's #1 option) and it's not a glamo(u)r market
What about Trent Jr, Thad, Porter Jr, ad Achiuwa for Zach? All are expiring and Dorfs would save $3M this year! Raptors get something for nothing.
That was me but no one liked or replied to my comment so I'm never ever commenting on Blogabull ever again!
In all seriousness (not really), the gist of it was:
TOR Lavine
PHI OG
CHI Morris, Korkmaz, and other filler, Springer picks
An alternate version where Bulls also send Caruso to Philly and get Melton.
I don't see Toronto wanting to do this, especially if Zach isn't keen on being a Raptor
I agree but in terms of fit it's one of the best situations for Zach. The Thrashtors have too much of the same thing (lengthy defending wings) and could use a Zach.
Kings? They've signed him to a an offer sheet before... He'd be an upgrade over like, Huerter and Monk.
Don't own their 2024 1st though..
maybe. Klutch represents De'Aaron Fox so perhaps that is all worked out behind the scenes in terms of who gets the ball late. It's not a big market though obviously.
I think the problem from the Kings perspective is that while LaVine would be an upgrade over Monk, it's not a big one and they do not need more offense.
Bane and Zack are both pure 2s....neither of them can play the 3 so i'm not sure how that fits unless they just say fuck it we need the offense and fuck the fit
Same goes for Minnesota.....That's Ant's team, why bring in another shot dominant 2?
I like the Charlotte idea, we can acquire a felon or two and Zach can pursue his destiny of cycling through all of LaVar Ball's sons until he finds one that doesn't explode upon contact to sunlight.
The Wizards are tanking... Any way we could convince them to take Zach off our hands for Tyus Jones & whoever else?
1. The Bulls get a PG with potential (biggest need) and get rid of Zach (addition by subtraction).
2. The Wizards could make Zach happy by making him the focal point of the offense while he's there and promise to trade him at next year's deadline to a contender.
3. The Wizards get a flashy player who won't ruin their tankathon and might lose them some additional games with buzzer beating failures on both ends of the court.
I just don't see a bad/irrelevant team being amenable for LaVine. And it's not entirely up to him but why would the Wizards bother paying him $40M even if it's some galaxy-brain tank move
Nate Duncan mentioned Utah and I just can't see that happening either. LaVine has been told he's a big-market star, and he believes it. Plus he wants to actually make the playoffs, but isn't good enough to take a bad team there.
I definitely don't think it would be near the top of his list, but I could see it playing to his ego. I can imagine him thinking Billy and his teammates are holding him back and he'd really be able to showcase his talent when he was the focal point of the offense.
That combined with a handshake deal to trade him at the deadline next year might sell him on it.
It's the best idea I've come up with that all parties might go for.
thinking of Zach's ego, I obviously don't know but wonder if instead of desiring to be showcase he'd rather just not be blamed when things go wrong
Fair point.
I feel like Zach could be convinced, but convincing Rich Paul it's in Zach's best interest might be the hard part.
I'll try to make these one per day...or one per hour
Pelicans idea https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-_XHuya0AA-iQt?format=jpg&name=large
McCollum is a worse and older LaVine, and have to wait out his recovery from...collapsed lung...but I don't see the Pelicans taking on Zach's contract without moving McCollum. It runs one less year and deescalates, so in 2025-26 $15M less than LaVine.
Threw in Vuc for Valencuinas because the latter is expiring, and let's face it CJ is bad money so they should take some back in Vuc (plus he's slightly better than Jonas)
And New Orleans has several picks and young players you can choose from. I have zero confidence Bulls would choose the right ones, but still.
They'd probably not offer their best goodies because LaVine doesn't solve their size/defense problems (and Vuc certainly wouldn't either), but I do think LaVine would be fine slotting behind Zion and Ingram. Or they trade Ingram for a better fit later, and this is a relatively cheap upgrade from CJ->Zach
"Like I said last year, we had a team meeting," Williamson said, "and it was brought up, some things I could do better. Especially with like buying into the program. And right now, it’s tough right now but like I said right now I’m taking a little backseat right now. I’m trusting the process. I’m trying my best to buy in right now." (https://www.foxnews.com/sports/pelicans-zion-williamson-trying-my-best-buy-right-now)
Zion is already making public statements about not fitting in with his team. We're not getting some young burgeoning Star, we're not getting top-5 draft picks. I would take the risk on Zion's upside out of any conceivable offer you think the Bulls can get for Lavine. If Zion and Lavine are the main pieces, we can figure out the rest.
I totally agree but don't think Pelicans would do it
if they did want to trade Zion they could do a lot better than LaVine.
Yeah, but Lavine and Pat, can they beat that?
The Pels would be generous to throw in both Murphy, who looked amazing from deep before his meniscus turned into shredded wheat, and Lewis, who would immediately be the Bulls best point guard. I'd be thrilled with just one of them, or Jose Alvarado.
I think that's what Pels fans on Twitter are yelling at me about
but all those guys have serious injuries, or just recovered from one in Lewis's case.
I honestly just was looking at any combination of 3 rookie scale contracts or first round picks. It doesn't matter to me if it's Trey Murphy or ::pauses to look at roster:: Jordan Hawkins
that Murphy has a meniscus tear and on the Pelicans means it's probably best we stay away
now those that are also upset that I'd consider LaVine an upgrade over CJ McOneLung...I dunno, really? If that's not true, then yeah dumb idea there's no match in New Orleans.
I honestly think you were just looking for an opportunity to type CJ McOneLung LOL
Almost put that on Twitter but I've 90% quit and getting in a cheap shot would've been a relapse
Yeah, Murphy is better than Zach!
Is Lavine the least successful player to ever demand a trade? Like, there is no interest. Is he dogging it? How do you claim to be the best player on the team and dog it when you're the one who the team is supposedly built around. He still hasn't gotten over the fact that Derozan was better than him the last two years.
I think the Heat deals make the most sense from the Bulls perspective as they can throw in young players (Herro, Jokic, Jaquez) and salary (Lowry, Robinson, Herro again) while having two first round picks to offer. Its basically a worse version of the deal Portland turned down. Is Miami really interested in Lavine? That is a lot of salary. I honestly would rather have Herro and Duncan Robinson than Lavine. Maybe I'm crazy.
The Lakers would have to wait to the 15th, but they could offer some combo of Rui, Reaves, DLo, Christie, Vanderbilt and their pick. I honestly think if the Bulls got Rui/Reaves and the Lakers got Lavine they would be worse and we'd be better. But the Bulls seem to be focused on staying competitive.
One thing I disagree with conventional wisdom on - people are like "the Bulls won't trade Lavine for multiple first round picks because they are foolishly trying to stay competitive." I think its the opposite, no one with a high pick is going to trade for Lavine and people aren't willing to give up multiple first round picks. We know Lavine's value is less than Beal's and look what Washington got for Beal. Having said that, two bad teams to keep an eye are Detroit and Charlotte. They have high priced vets and young disappointing players the Bulls could sell to someone as being significant. I think those 4 teams - Heat, lakers, Charlotte, Detroit are the market. Don't see the Grizz. I think the salaries in New Orleans make taking Lavine on pretty tough.
Jae Crowder was just last year
For the Heat, unless Pat Riley has taken to heart all the hate Heat fans have given him this summer, he didn't want to give up Herro, Jokic, Jaquez for Dame. I can't see him doing it for Lavine. Herro is like a middle-class Lavine so if we are trading for him we would definitely need more.
For the Lakers, I would love to get 2 of the 3 Reeves/Rui/Vanderbilt and possible draft compensation.
I agree on Miami, as much as it makes sense for the Bulls to 'downgrade' from LaVine > Herro, that's why it doesn't make sense for Miami to pay for that privilege
This just seems like a Lakers thing to do. They are a Klutch-ran team at this point and LaVine played college there, they will pay up and take Zach's remaining contract. On the floor, it's a clear #3 option which would suit everyone well
Nothing can be done until Jan 15 with them
The money has to be somewhat close as they're hard capped. And have to consider roster spots, Bulls can't do a 1-for-5 trade. They have 1 open roster spot and can cut Terry Taylor
All that said, I'd do
LaVine+Drummond+Craig
for
Russell+Rui+Prince+Hood-Schifino+Hayes+2029first and a second
none of that is a great single asset, but does get you younger/cheaper, and positive draft capital
Pelinka sat on that Russell Westbrook disaster so long I thought his weird head would crack open and chickens would fly out.
I guess the one advantage here is we know they'll burn picks and they frankly only have a single first that's even available.
I feel like if we're going this route, let's play it to the hilt. I think you send Caruso before a limb falls off. Then make sure you get back Reaves and ideally Vanderbilt instead of Prince. In this idealized scenario I'd also be sending out Dalen to just be done with it.
Like you said, you're getting younger and cheaper - adding a lot of value contracts and some draft capital. I wouldn't expect the team to be any worse in the short term.
I know the Lakers want Caruso, but
1) no Lakers deal can happen until Jan 15, and so limbs may be off by then
2) they don't have enough for LaVine+Caruso IMO. Just a single first round pick. I'm not enamored with Reaves.
You are probably right - I'd suspect they could get a decent young player and a pick for Caruso elsewhere, assuming full limb-age. And after some further reading Lakers can't include Vanderbilt until March anyway.