Caruso is a tricky one for the front office. Being a hard nose defensive player puts him firmly in the hard hat lunch pail (lol) zone and we know how much “value” that is. I do hope he gets his bag however.
Unless he gets critically injured, AC will have positive value for at least the next 3 years so I am fine with an extension. But even a "good" move like that would be totally undermined by a DDR extension. If the Bulls extend DeMar, then anything else they do is meaningless. Our only hope is some team like the Sixers or Clippers gets desperate for scoring help and bids more than the Bulls are willing to pay.
Eh I think the opposite. If DeMar isn't back (or even somewhat replaced), anything else they do is meaningless because they'll be terrible, with or without Caruso
They should be terrible! The only way to right the ship is by hitting in the draft. If they stay the course of competitive mediocrity (which is all but assured with DDR), the chances of that happening are almost zero.
Wonder if the Spurs would do it for Collins' expiring, Sisoko, and the Bulls first back (I mean, I'd ask for 8 first obviously, but if that fails getting the Bulls first back would be fine)?
I think it's time to embrace the youth and trade Caruso. Sighing him to a 4 year extension probably ups his value a little but not sure it's enough for me to hesitate to pull the trigger if something presented itself at the draft.
From Caruso side, I don't think he signs a full 4 year with the Bulls. If anything its a 2 year with a player option on the last season so he can get a big payday prior to his final years.
Would be a terrible idea to sign Caruso for $27 million a season. Understand that Caruso is a great defensive player, hustles and does all the other things well also but Caruso can't carry the Bulls. Bulls shouldn't pay out big money to DeRozan and Caruso. If the current players are so good, then the Bulls wouldn't just be an average team.
thankfully Will at Chuggo did the 8% math for us. Here's Caruso's contract if he took Bulls max extension offer, it would still be a very desirable trade asset especially this deadline IMO:
Is there a difference between if the Bulls extend him or someone else does?
Presumably some teams would prefer offering 3 years and others 4, right? So why actually do that and trade him when he's still making $10m? Nothing's going to happen for the team in the 1st part of next season that hasn't already happened the last 3 seasons. Nothing to wait on there other than Caruso racking up a few "DNP - Crashed Into Refueling Jetliner"s.
I mean given his history I'm trading him tomorrow. He could be out for weeks at the deadline.
What I'm saying is could a team acquire him now, since the salary hit is $10 million, and then extend him on their own time? If so, what is the incentive for the Bulls to do it?
so best I can tell, the only limitation is that after a trade (and not doing the simultaneous extend-and-trade for a smaller amount) the player can't be extended for six months
so it'd have to be a wink-wink thing where a team would work that out with Caruso in advance of trading for him (else risking he goes to free agency)
We should appreciate that Karnisovas is creating a new kind of basketball team. Nobody that wound up with a team like the Bulls actually did so on purpose. "Old, thin, injury-prone and overpaid" is a target that no one intentionally aimed at before.
player friendly organization. AK is keeping the Bulls tradition, as in the time they signed Dwyane Wade who jokes about the robbery to this day. That's good for the fraternity to see Chicago as a destination!
I get the thought process behind extending Caruso as a way of improving his trade value. Trading him with multiple seasons left under contract as opposed to one season is obviously more attractive to interested teams.
However, the number at which he is extended would also play a large part in how attractive a trade looks. Caruso is 30 with a body that is likely closer to mid-to-upper 30s. With his play style, his body is only going to continue to get beat up. He may be worth $27 million a year currently, but are teams going to want to pay him somewhere near that in three or four years? I kind of doubt it.
There's also the worry that this regime seems pretty intent on keeping players that they sign/extend. So while the thought of extending him to up his trade value does seem like a potentially good idea, I'm afraid we'd end up with a 35 year old Caruso that can barely walk that we're paying $25-30 million a year.
I guess I say all that to say this: if AK can work out a reasonable extension with Caruso (maybe in the $20 million a year range with a front loaded contract) under the context that the intention is to trade Caruso, I'm fine with that. But if there are two things AK seems extremely bad at, it's trading players at peak value (or really trading players at all) and signing/extending players to reasonable contracts. So I guess I'd probably prefer he just trade Caruso for whatever he can get this summer, even though I know that's obviously not going to happen.
right, I agree. I am all for trading Caruso. If they do it now and can get decent value (including just moving off of other bad money) then do it now. If not, then extend at a number where he's still tradeable later
A replacement-level front office I'd trust to do this kind of value setting. AKME is horrible at it. It's also why we are all just expecting them to fuck up a DeMar extension when it doesn't have to be a fuck-up at a certain number
Apparently the Bulls could have moved Caruso for a top 10 pick or multiple 1st at the deadline last year, but ownership wanted to push for the playoffs.
to me, this is a designed leak for AKME to try and look better and pass the blame
when it actually makes them look worse. They could 'push for playoffs' with or without Caruso (and Drummond), they are just too incompetent to even correctly pursue their meager goals.
plus AK looks like a total dipshit for saying this is all his call. At the deadline there were multiple leaks like this, maybe it's Marc Eversley snaking his way to the top spot
I'm not quite sure why Bulls fans have turned into conspiracy theorist on this report. Read less Doug Thonus is my rec.
I don't think is a leak from AKME, although maybe. The article says the ownership mandated a push for the playoffs, not that they told AK he couldn't trade Caruso.
Of course its not all his call. Every president of basketball operations has to run things through their owner. And I think its pretty clear the Bulls ownership doesn't want to tank. To me, it looks like Bulls ownership and management have picked a direction but can't execute.
Recognizing that the FOs, agents and players use media leaks in order to advance their agendas is not a conspiracy theory but and accurate assessment of the real world confirmed by information widely available in the public record. With this in mind, it is not conspiracy mindset to ask "Cui Bono" when confronted with a leak and speculate as to its original source.
Okay but when you have no basis for your belief and no facts to back it up that's kind of the essence of a conspiracy or baseless speculation. I think ppl are reading things into the leak that aren't there and missing I think the most interesting parts of story
1. Caruso's value 2. Reinsdorf focus on trying to make playoffs.
I don't think speculating on whether this is AK or someone else is that important or interesting.
I don't think it's AK himself but I don't know who else it would be other than someone who works in the front office. I just find it interesting that a subordinate would say 'I know it looks like AK doesn't know what he's doing but here's some context'
I also find it interesting after seeing the influence. The Chuggo boys spent a whole hour this week on this leak, with Will saying he understands and excuses AK's incompetence now
Not sure I understand this argument. So AK is saying his hands were tied by ownership and it's not his fault but actually his employer's fault? That seems like a quick way to find yourself without a job.
I think it's someone working in the front office saying 'hey don't yell at us we're just doing our jobs'. And I don't think the dorfs care much about such a thing getting out
I wish I could say I was surprised, but I'm definitely not. AK saying he has ownership's full support regardless of what direction he takes the team always seemed like a load of BS. Jerry's too greedy to let AK do whatever he wants with the team.
I should add that I'm not saying this absolves AK of anything. He clearly still sucks at his job. But I'm sure it's even harder trying to do a decent job at leading the team when you have your boss (who knows nothing about what you do) constantly telling you what to do.
> The Golden State Warriors were among teams who made a strong offer for Caruso, multiple sources confirmed.
That was reported at the time, it was reputedly Moses Moody and a 1st (I don't recall or it wasn't specified which 1st but it couldn't have been before 2026, as their pick this year is gone to Portland via Boston via Memphis.)
Steve Kerr, who appears to be strong-arming the front office now into doing what he wants via media manipulation, doesn't like Moody so I suspect this was probably real-ish.
The thing that kills me is that this is reported just as the Celtics are winning a title. And they won this title precisely because they made these kind of moves (off-loading in demand veterans to win-now franchises in exchange for future assets). The picks/swaps from Pierce/Garnett gave them Tatum/Brown and they are getting a full decade plus of production out of them.
The two good moves this team has made was signing Demar and Caruso to incredibly friendly deals. And when it was clear (two and a half seasons ago!) that this team could do nothing with them, they should have cashed in. Demar when he was winning all-NBAs and Caruso at literally any point during his contract when any contender could slide him into their playoff rotation. Instead, we run down their contracts and get a few years of production out of them on a losing team.
> The picks/swaps from Pierce/Garnett gave them Tatum/Brown and they are getting a full decade plus of production out of them.
"Beware an old man in a hurry." Who are today's Billy King Nets? The Clippers, most likely:
✅ opening a new arena
✅ competing with a more established & successful team in their city
✅ aging stars that haven't been able to advance very far
✅ deep pocket owner
✅ capped to hell with no escape in the next few years possible
The problem is their picks are gone until 2030 (they literally have 1 second round pick over the next six years and every 1st is going out or subject to a swap!), more importantly I believe Steve Ballmer can stay irrational longer than the Bulls can stay patient and there are now "2nd apron rules" that make it impossible for them to aggregate players. I bet the Clippers would love to give us everything for our creaky veterans. They just can't, though.
I suspect this is going to be common among most potential trading partners. The time to make these trades was when these guys were still under contract for 1+ years, when the big-spending teams still had at least a couple picks and before the draconian roster restrictions on big spending teams kicked in with the new CBA (the league was nice enough to introduce them slowly).
Karnisovas shouldn't be fired for Lonzo or the Vuc extension or the moves he did make. It's the ones he DIDN'T make the last two years and which were crying out to be made that are the worst malpractice.
The other owner archetype to target is the new-ish I MADE A LOT OF MONEY DOING THIS OTHER THING, I KNOW STUFF owner. Detroit re-set the coaching market last year and then this year fired that coach. I don't know if Trajan Langdon is dumb enough to take on any of the flotsam and / or jetsam that is Zach / Vuc, but it's worth a try
The Ishbia / Suns disaster would also be a prime target but thanks to the new CBA they're going to have to break the bank to keep Royce O'Neal around. Yes, Royce O'Neal. Hey, at least we're not Phoenix!
Holy shit, how is Jared McCain not mocked higher in this draft? I think he's the 2nd most talented guy I've watched thus far. I know he's supposed to be a really confident guy, but I still think he doesn't know how good he is right now. Like, wow is that guy skilled. He and Dillingham are the guys with the most NBA-level scoring packages in this class; but whereas Dillingham is built like Anne Hathaway, McCain is 3 inches taller and built like a brick shithouse.
Interesting list of players at the Bulls' workout yesterday. The only one of those that I think even remotely deserves to go at 11 is Ron Holland. Is AK just doing some due diligence in case he decides to trade down? There's no way he'd be that proactive, right?
The comments re TSJ at the Athletic are fairly insane. It's like being trapped in some sort of Illini/ SEERED delusion chamber. There are more than a handful who see a fringe first rounder as a MUST TAKE at 11.
So glad someone mentioned this. I read the comments of that article last night and couldn't believe my eyes. Admittedly, I was born in Illinois but have spent the majority of my life on the East coast so I don't have the same love for local guys as some fans who are from Chicago. I don't want to diminish that, but I just don't understand the infatuation with selecting someone way above their projected rank solely because they're from the same city as the team.
I do agree with Walrus in the last post that OKC may actually want to use Vuc. But I don't think the Bulls can even dream of getting positive value. The negative value means including Caruso.
I mean, I think that might be oversimplifying things a bit. The GarPax rebuild was far more simple (and unsuccessful) than the Thunder rebuild.
Yes, figuring out how to take this current trash heap that we lovingly call the Bulls and turn it into a winning team would definitely take more creativity than just selling off everything for as many picks as possible and being bad for several years. Just because it's more creative doesn't necessarily mean it has a higher chance of success though.
That's why I'm more for rebuilding than you are. We both agree AK doesn't have the skill or creativity to turn this roster into something good. We also both agree he doesn't have the skill or creativity to properly tank. Both would take luck to be successful, but rebuilding takes luck anyway. In my opinion, and it's just an opinion, the Bulls would have a better chance at getting lucky in a rebuild than they'll have by trying to stay competitive and make moves on the fly.
I honestly really like your trade idea. It's quite complex, but it achieves positive things for pretty much all teams involved. It keeps the Bulls roughly where they are while also netting them several extra picks and freeing up a bunch of cap space. If AK pulled that off, I'd be quite happy. The problem is I don't think AK could ever pull anything like that off. I think he's going to dump LaVine as quickly as possible so he can re-sign DeMar and Pat and that'll be the extent of the off-season moves.
I should also add that I'm not exactly advocating for tanking either. I'd prefer a rebuild. Honestly, your trade proposal is a solid first step. In my opinion, if the Bulls rebuild, they need to trade Vooch, Zach and Caruso at the minimum. I'd also include DeMar in that too if the Bulls can't bring him back on a far more reasonable deal ($20-25 million for no more than two years).
I disagree. The Bulls' cupboard of assets is so bare that they need to get lucky in the draft to inject some top line young talent into the roster and possibly restock the picks. To me, a 35-win Bulls team with DDR isn't any more interesting than a 20-win team without him. The Bulls should be taking every opportunity to improve their draft standing. Realistically the team is going to be bad in any event so why not go all in for one season?
This is actually pretty impressive. None of the teams get absolutely hosed, unlike most Bulls trade proposals I see. Bulls get Capela for a year and then he's off the books. I'm pretty meh on Hunter but at least he's a decent defender with size and a decent three point shooter. Then obviously bringing in three first round picks (one is a swap) and two second round picks is probably the biggest part of this. The Bulls need as many picks as they can get.
Pistons get LaVine who we know they're interested in. They lose pick #5 this year but get #11 instead. In this draft, I'm not sure that's a huge deal to them. The Hawks probably come off the worst in this trade in the sense that they don't get much back, but this is just a salary dump for them which frees them up to make other moves. Then the Thunder get two players who fit areas of need and also bring a championship mindset (from Caruso) without losing much.
I honestly think that team in your note has a chance of being better than the current team. Obviously not a good team, but better than they currently are with more future cap flexibility and four more picks.
Yeah I may be overestimating the Hawks desire to recalibrate their books, but they have tax troubles, and moving off of pretty redundant players allows them to get better return in a Dejonte or Trae deal
jfc am i really supposed to believe the bulls said no to a top 10 pick for Caruso. tf can anyone do after hearing that. this might be the dumbest bulls thing I've ever heard. what in the hell
Just looking at the possibilities, what I'm pretty sure happened is the Rockets offered up the pick they owned from Brooklyn, which ended up jumping up to #3 in the lottery.
So they were probably offered a pick that was in the 8-12 range, with the upside to jump up. Which it did.
Still a no-brainer to say yes to for anyone but Jerry Reinsdorf and AKME.
Happy Lacob Day! The league has assessed tax penalties and this year Jerry Reinsdorf will pocket $12 million for playing most of the season undermanned and squandering an injury exception. When you factor in insurance payments this guy made close to $30 million last season just from roster charges. Good work if you can find it!
You can live to a grand old age and you will never see a penny of this money invested back into the roster. You think this season was a waste of time, but to the only guy that counts it was a banner year, disappointing only in missing another 2 games of playoff revenue. Better luck next year, Jer!
As much as I like Caruso, I’m starting to think that if your team is stuck in the middle with zero superstars and zero young players who could become superstars, you shouldn’t be extending anyone 30-years-old and over.
If the Bulls could still get a lottery pick for Caruso, I’d make that trade. Trade LaVine. Trade Vuc for whatever you can get. Teach Jerry about his net worth so he can understand that revenue from one or two play-in games doesn’t actually impact his fortune that much. And just bottom out for a couple of years.
I can't remember exactly where I heard it, but I heard KC blathering about the Bulls being determined not to repeat their mistake with Vuc with DeMar.
I've got mixed feelings about that. At the surface level, I agree, obviously. You should never overpay.
At the deeper level though, it does nothing to make me think they've learned that lesson. It's just that now they're under financial threat, so after rewarding a guy who has been a massive disappointment on numerous levels, they're going to play extra hardball with the guy who's been a massive help on just as many levels.
The end result is still a toxic. Teams and players look at that. They see that being "player friendly" and rewarding leadership and performance is meaningless the moment it's no longer convenient to do so. And, of course, it's no longer convenient because the Bulls continually box themselves into these situations by doing stupid shit like paying Vuc more and longer than anyone else would.
It's so disappointing, and confirms what this organization is / does. They fuck up due to general malaise / stupidity / wrongly placed enthusiasm and then course correct. They fundamentally don't understand player value. So they pivot to show that they're "doing something different" and they do that when negotiating with an actually useful player
This team has done this time and time again, through different regimes, with contracts. They pass it on to the fan base - we paid this guy, he needs to perform now! When guys like Taj and Jo and definitely Tyson Chandler got their extensions it was a race to immediately shit all over how much money these guys made and how they weren't living up to their contracts. The Vuc thing is the anomaly - a guy getting waaaaay overpaid who isn't performing and for some reason isn't the punching bag! So let's punch Demar! This has to be an AK thing and I hate it
DeRozan can technically agree to an extension before June 30 rather than a new free-agent contract; the advantage for Chicago would be that he’d be trade-eligible right away if the deal is for no more than two years and $61.5 million. Given that DeRozan will be 35 this year and the Bulls will run into luxury tax issues if they pay him much more than his current $28.3 million salary, that doesn’t seem like a far-fetched endgame.
To me, that's a win-win for both sides, even more-so than a Caruso extension. Demar gets more than he can on the open market this year and the Bulls have the flexibility to trade him. Maybe this is what the Bulls are pushing for, but who knows
Caruso is a tricky one for the front office. Being a hard nose defensive player puts him firmly in the hard hat lunch pail (lol) zone and we know how much “value” that is. I do hope he gets his bag however.
Unless he gets critically injured, AC will have positive value for at least the next 3 years so I am fine with an extension. But even a "good" move like that would be totally undermined by a DDR extension. If the Bulls extend DeMar, then anything else they do is meaningless. Our only hope is some team like the Sixers or Clippers gets desperate for scoring help and bids more than the Bulls are willing to pay.
Eh I think the opposite. If DeMar isn't back (or even somewhat replaced), anything else they do is meaningless because they'll be terrible, with or without Caruso
They should be terrible! The only way to right the ship is by hitting in the draft. If they stay the course of competitive mediocrity (which is all but assured with DDR), the chances of that happening are almost zero.
Agreed. Bad idea to pay DDR $40 million a season. Bulls will just be stuck in the middle as the team is now.
Wonder if the Spurs would do it for Collins' expiring, Sisoko, and the Bulls first back (I mean, I'd ask for 8 first obviously, but if that fails getting the Bulls first back would be fine)?
I think it's time to embrace the youth and trade Caruso. Sighing him to a 4 year extension probably ups his value a little but not sure it's enough for me to hesitate to pull the trigger if something presented itself at the draft.
From Caruso side, I don't think he signs a full 4 year with the Bulls. If anything its a 2 year with a player option on the last season so he can get a big payday prior to his final years.
Would be a terrible idea to sign Caruso for $27 million a season. Understand that Caruso is a great defensive player, hustles and does all the other things well also but Caruso can't carry the Bulls. Bulls shouldn't pay out big money to DeRozan and Caruso. If the current players are so good, then the Bulls wouldn't just be an average team.
'big money' is a relative term, in the current cap environment $27M is more starter level and DeRozan and Caruso are both starters (not 'so good')
and that said, this is the idea of extending Caruso far below that, more like $20M. The $27M was the one-year "value" assigned by Hollinger's BORD$
thankfully Will at Chuggo did the 8% math for us. Here's Caruso's contract if he took Bulls max extension offer, it would still be a very desirable trade asset especially this deadline IMO:
2024-25: $9.9M (age 30 season)
2025-26: $17.5M (age 31 season)
2026-27: $18.9M (age 32 season)
2027-28: $20.4M (age 33 season)
2028-29: $22.0M (age 34 season)
Is there a difference between if the Bulls extend him or someone else does?
Presumably some teams would prefer offering 3 years and others 4, right? So why actually do that and trade him when he's still making $10m? Nothing's going to happen for the team in the 1st part of next season that hasn't already happened the last 3 seasons. Nothing to wait on there other than Caruso racking up a few "DNP - Crashed Into Refueling Jetliner"s.
I mean given his history I'm trading him tomorrow. He could be out for weeks at the deadline.
Yes, the Bulls could extend and trade immediately, but it's limited in number of years. http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q95
What I'm saying is could a team acquire him now, since the salary hit is $10 million, and then extend him on their own time? If so, what is the incentive for the Bulls to do it?
so best I can tell, the only limitation is that after a trade (and not doing the simultaneous extend-and-trade for a smaller amount) the player can't be extended for six months
so it'd have to be a wink-wink thing where a team would work that out with Caruso in advance of trading for him (else risking he goes to free agency)
Best not to give Caruso this contract immediately. It isn't as if the Bulls have a realistic chance to win the title now and just need one more piece.
this doesn't address your 'concern' but the reason to get it done immediately is that he is then tradeable before the trade deadline
We should appreciate that Karnisovas is creating a new kind of basketball team. Nobody that wound up with a team like the Bulls actually did so on purpose. "Old, thin, injury-prone and overpaid" is a target that no one intentionally aimed at before.
player friendly organization. AK is keeping the Bulls tradition, as in the time they signed Dwyane Wade who jokes about the robbery to this day. That's good for the fraternity to see Chicago as a destination!
Whoa, back up buddy, Wade promised to help the community in Chicago and you're just saying he was lying? Reputable publications reported this!
I get the thought process behind extending Caruso as a way of improving his trade value. Trading him with multiple seasons left under contract as opposed to one season is obviously more attractive to interested teams.
However, the number at which he is extended would also play a large part in how attractive a trade looks. Caruso is 30 with a body that is likely closer to mid-to-upper 30s. With his play style, his body is only going to continue to get beat up. He may be worth $27 million a year currently, but are teams going to want to pay him somewhere near that in three or four years? I kind of doubt it.
There's also the worry that this regime seems pretty intent on keeping players that they sign/extend. So while the thought of extending him to up his trade value does seem like a potentially good idea, I'm afraid we'd end up with a 35 year old Caruso that can barely walk that we're paying $25-30 million a year.
I guess I say all that to say this: if AK can work out a reasonable extension with Caruso (maybe in the $20 million a year range with a front loaded contract) under the context that the intention is to trade Caruso, I'm fine with that. But if there are two things AK seems extremely bad at, it's trading players at peak value (or really trading players at all) and signing/extending players to reasonable contracts. So I guess I'd probably prefer he just trade Caruso for whatever he can get this summer, even though I know that's obviously not going to happen.
right, I agree. I am all for trading Caruso. If they do it now and can get decent value (including just moving off of other bad money) then do it now. If not, then extend at a number where he's still tradeable later
A replacement-level front office I'd trust to do this kind of value setting. AKME is horrible at it. It's also why we are all just expecting them to fuck up a DeMar extension when it doesn't have to be a fuck-up at a certain number
Apparently the Bulls could have moved Caruso for a top 10 pick or multiple 1st at the deadline last year, but ownership wanted to push for the playoffs.
https://allchgo.com/alex-carusos-future-with-the-chicago-bulls
to me, this is a designed leak for AKME to try and look better and pass the blame
when it actually makes them look worse. They could 'push for playoffs' with or without Caruso (and Drummond), they are just too incompetent to even correctly pursue their meager goals.
plus AK looks like a total dipshit for saying this is all his call. At the deadline there were multiple leaks like this, maybe it's Marc Eversley snaking his way to the top spot
I'm not quite sure why Bulls fans have turned into conspiracy theorist on this report. Read less Doug Thonus is my rec.
I don't think is a leak from AKME, although maybe. The article says the ownership mandated a push for the playoffs, not that they told AK he couldn't trade Caruso.
Of course its not all his call. Every president of basketball operations has to run things through their owner. And I think its pretty clear the Bulls ownership doesn't want to tank. To me, it looks like Bulls ownership and management have picked a direction but can't execute.
Recognizing that the FOs, agents and players use media leaks in order to advance their agendas is not a conspiracy theory but and accurate assessment of the real world confirmed by information widely available in the public record. With this in mind, it is not conspiracy mindset to ask "Cui Bono" when confronted with a leak and speculate as to its original source.
Okay but when you have no basis for your belief and no facts to back it up that's kind of the essence of a conspiracy or baseless speculation. I think ppl are reading things into the leak that aren't there and missing I think the most interesting parts of story
1. Caruso's value 2. Reinsdorf focus on trying to make playoffs.
I don't think speculating on whether this is AK or someone else is that important or interesting.
I don't think it's AK himself but I don't know who else it would be other than someone who works in the front office. I just find it interesting that a subordinate would say 'I know it looks like AK doesn't know what he's doing but here's some context'
I also find it interesting after seeing the influence. The Chuggo boys spent a whole hour this week on this leak, with Will saying he understands and excuses AK's incompetence now
Not sure I understand this argument. So AK is saying his hands were tied by ownership and it's not his fault but actually his employer's fault? That seems like a quick way to find yourself without a job.
I think it's someone working in the front office saying 'hey don't yell at us we're just doing our jobs'. And I don't think the dorfs care much about such a thing getting out
I wish I could say I was surprised, but I'm definitely not. AK saying he has ownership's full support regardless of what direction he takes the team always seemed like a load of BS. Jerry's too greedy to let AK do whatever he wants with the team.
I should add that I'm not saying this absolves AK of anything. He clearly still sucks at his job. But I'm sure it's even harder trying to do a decent job at leading the team when you have your boss (who knows nothing about what you do) constantly telling you what to do.
> The Golden State Warriors were among teams who made a strong offer for Caruso, multiple sources confirmed.
That was reported at the time, it was reputedly Moses Moody and a 1st (I don't recall or it wasn't specified which 1st but it couldn't have been before 2026, as their pick this year is gone to Portland via Boston via Memphis.)
Steve Kerr, who appears to be strong-arming the front office now into doing what he wants via media manipulation, doesn't like Moody so I suspect this was probably real-ish.
The thing that kills me is that this is reported just as the Celtics are winning a title. And they won this title precisely because they made these kind of moves (off-loading in demand veterans to win-now franchises in exchange for future assets). The picks/swaps from Pierce/Garnett gave them Tatum/Brown and they are getting a full decade plus of production out of them.
The two good moves this team has made was signing Demar and Caruso to incredibly friendly deals. And when it was clear (two and a half seasons ago!) that this team could do nothing with them, they should have cashed in. Demar when he was winning all-NBAs and Caruso at literally any point during his contract when any contender could slide him into their playoff rotation. Instead, we run down their contracts and get a few years of production out of them on a losing team.
> The picks/swaps from Pierce/Garnett gave them Tatum/Brown and they are getting a full decade plus of production out of them.
"Beware an old man in a hurry." Who are today's Billy King Nets? The Clippers, most likely:
✅ opening a new arena
✅ competing with a more established & successful team in their city
✅ aging stars that haven't been able to advance very far
✅ deep pocket owner
✅ capped to hell with no escape in the next few years possible
The problem is their picks are gone until 2030 (they literally have 1 second round pick over the next six years and every 1st is going out or subject to a swap!), more importantly I believe Steve Ballmer can stay irrational longer than the Bulls can stay patient and there are now "2nd apron rules" that make it impossible for them to aggregate players. I bet the Clippers would love to give us everything for our creaky veterans. They just can't, though.
I suspect this is going to be common among most potential trading partners. The time to make these trades was when these guys were still under contract for 1+ years, when the big-spending teams still had at least a couple picks and before the draconian roster restrictions on big spending teams kicked in with the new CBA (the league was nice enough to introduce them slowly).
Karnisovas shouldn't be fired for Lonzo or the Vuc extension or the moves he did make. It's the ones he DIDN'T make the last two years and which were crying out to be made that are the worst malpractice.
The other owner archetype to target is the new-ish I MADE A LOT OF MONEY DOING THIS OTHER THING, I KNOW STUFF owner. Detroit re-set the coaching market last year and then this year fired that coach. I don't know if Trajan Langdon is dumb enough to take on any of the flotsam and / or jetsam that is Zach / Vuc, but it's worth a try
The Ishbia / Suns disaster would also be a prime target but thanks to the new CBA they're going to have to break the bank to keep Royce O'Neal around. Yes, Royce O'Neal. Hey, at least we're not Phoenix!
Holy shit, how is Jared McCain not mocked higher in this draft? I think he's the 2nd most talented guy I've watched thus far. I know he's supposed to be a really confident guy, but I still think he doesn't know how good he is right now. Like, wow is that guy skilled. He and Dillingham are the guys with the most NBA-level scoring packages in this class; but whereas Dillingham is built like Anne Hathaway, McCain is 3 inches taller and built like a brick shithouse.
Interesting list of players at the Bulls' workout yesterday. The only one of those that I think even remotely deserves to go at 11 is Ron Holland. Is AK just doing some due diligence in case he decides to trade down? There's no way he'd be that proactive, right?
https://x.com/DarnellMayberry/status/1802831099690910119
The comments re TSJ at the Athletic are fairly insane. It's like being trapped in some sort of Illini/ SEERED delusion chamber. There are more than a handful who see a fringe first rounder as a MUST TAKE at 11.
So glad someone mentioned this. I read the comments of that article last night and couldn't believe my eyes. Admittedly, I was born in Illinois but have spent the majority of my life on the East coast so I don't have the same love for local guys as some fans who are from Chicago. I don't want to diminish that, but I just don't understand the infatuation with selecting someone way above their projected rank solely because they're from the same city as the team.
wrote up a barfing of trade ideas.
I do agree with Walrus in the last post that OKC may actually want to use Vuc. But I don't think the Bulls can even dream of getting positive value. The negative value means including Caruso.
https://substack.com/profile/3012-your-friendly-bullsblogger/note/c-59406026
Interesting ideas but why try to make the playoffs?
I think simply because he knows that's what this FO is trying to do. Trying to be creative within the confines of what this FO has already set out.
There is nothing less creative than a 'rebuild'. Even John Paxson could do the teardown
I mean, I think that might be oversimplifying things a bit. The GarPax rebuild was far more simple (and unsuccessful) than the Thunder rebuild.
Yes, figuring out how to take this current trash heap that we lovingly call the Bulls and turn it into a winning team would definitely take more creativity than just selling off everything for as many picks as possible and being bad for several years. Just because it's more creative doesn't necessarily mean it has a higher chance of success though.
That's why I'm more for rebuilding than you are. We both agree AK doesn't have the skill or creativity to turn this roster into something good. We also both agree he doesn't have the skill or creativity to properly tank. Both would take luck to be successful, but rebuilding takes luck anyway. In my opinion, and it's just an opinion, the Bulls would have a better chance at getting lucky in a rebuild than they'll have by trying to stay competitive and make moves on the fly.
I honestly really like your trade idea. It's quite complex, but it achieves positive things for pretty much all teams involved. It keeps the Bulls roughly where they are while also netting them several extra picks and freeing up a bunch of cap space. If AK pulled that off, I'd be quite happy. The problem is I don't think AK could ever pull anything like that off. I think he's going to dump LaVine as quickly as possible so he can re-sign DeMar and Pat and that'll be the extent of the off-season moves.
I should also add that I'm not exactly advocating for tanking either. I'd prefer a rebuild. Honestly, your trade proposal is a solid first step. In my opinion, if the Bulls rebuild, they need to trade Vooch, Zach and Caruso at the minimum. I'd also include DeMar in that too if the Bulls can't bring him back on a far more reasonable deal ($20-25 million for no more than two years).
Better than trying to lose
I disagree. The Bulls' cupboard of assets is so bare that they need to get lucky in the draft to inject some top line young talent into the roster and possibly restock the picks. To me, a 35-win Bulls team with DDR isn't any more interesting than a 20-win team without him. The Bulls should be taking every opportunity to improve their draft standing. Realistically the team is going to be bad in any event so why not go all in for one season?
Or more interesting, anyway
Not bad. Who do the Bulls select with the #5 pick? Clingan (possibly gone by then), who else?
This is actually pretty impressive. None of the teams get absolutely hosed, unlike most Bulls trade proposals I see. Bulls get Capela for a year and then he's off the books. I'm pretty meh on Hunter but at least he's a decent defender with size and a decent three point shooter. Then obviously bringing in three first round picks (one is a swap) and two second round picks is probably the biggest part of this. The Bulls need as many picks as they can get.
Pistons get LaVine who we know they're interested in. They lose pick #5 this year but get #11 instead. In this draft, I'm not sure that's a huge deal to them. The Hawks probably come off the worst in this trade in the sense that they don't get much back, but this is just a salary dump for them which frees them up to make other moves. Then the Thunder get two players who fit areas of need and also bring a championship mindset (from Caruso) without losing much.
I honestly think that team in your note has a chance of being better than the current team. Obviously not a good team, but better than they currently are with more future cap flexibility and four more picks.
Yeah I may be overestimating the Hawks desire to recalibrate their books, but they have tax troubles, and moving off of pretty redundant players allows them to get better return in a Dejonte or Trae deal
jfc am i really supposed to believe the bulls said no to a top 10 pick for Caruso. tf can anyone do after hearing that. this might be the dumbest bulls thing I've ever heard. what in the hell
Just looking at the possibilities, what I'm pretty sure happened is the Rockets offered up the pick they owned from Brooklyn, which ended up jumping up to #3 in the lottery.
So they were probably offered a pick that was in the 8-12 range, with the upside to jump up. Which it did.
Still a no-brainer to say yes to for anyone but Jerry Reinsdorf and AKME.
Happy Lacob Day! The league has assessed tax penalties and this year Jerry Reinsdorf will pocket $12 million for playing most of the season undermanned and squandering an injury exception. When you factor in insurance payments this guy made close to $30 million last season just from roster charges. Good work if you can find it!
You can live to a grand old age and you will never see a penny of this money invested back into the roster. You think this season was a waste of time, but to the only guy that counts it was a banner year, disappointing only in missing another 2 games of playoff revenue. Better luck next year, Jer!
He said it best himself "a business so easy even my son could run it"
Better build this guy a new stadium or he's going to take his other shitty team away!
All that money hoarding for all those decades and Jerry R is still going to die and have to leave it here with his idiot son. Doesn't seem fair.
As much as I like Caruso, I’m starting to think that if your team is stuck in the middle with zero superstars and zero young players who could become superstars, you shouldn’t be extending anyone 30-years-old and over.
If the Bulls could still get a lottery pick for Caruso, I’d make that trade. Trade LaVine. Trade Vuc for whatever you can get. Teach Jerry about his net worth so he can understand that revenue from one or two play-in games doesn’t actually impact his fortune that much. And just bottom out for a couple of years.
Can it get worse than a non-sports-focused publication like Forbes ripping into your team?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mortenjensen/2024/06/19/the-chicago-bulls-have-become-a-rudderless-mess/
He's is a longtime Bulls commenter/internet guy. Didn't JayPatt write for Forbes too? Seems like they've got a soft spot for talking about the Bulls.
As long as they keep calling this team's management and ownership out for their stupidity, I'm fine with it!
Forbes has been a content farm for many years now, far from the original magazine
Guess that shows how often I read Forbes!
I can't remember exactly where I heard it, but I heard KC blathering about the Bulls being determined not to repeat their mistake with Vuc with DeMar.
I've got mixed feelings about that. At the surface level, I agree, obviously. You should never overpay.
At the deeper level though, it does nothing to make me think they've learned that lesson. It's just that now they're under financial threat, so after rewarding a guy who has been a massive disappointment on numerous levels, they're going to play extra hardball with the guy who's been a massive help on just as many levels.
The end result is still a toxic. Teams and players look at that. They see that being "player friendly" and rewarding leadership and performance is meaningless the moment it's no longer convenient to do so. And, of course, it's no longer convenient because the Bulls continually box themselves into these situations by doing stupid shit like paying Vuc more and longer than anyone else would.
It was the most recent Bulls Talk podcast, but yeah I totally agree with you.
It's so disappointing, and confirms what this organization is / does. They fuck up due to general malaise / stupidity / wrongly placed enthusiasm and then course correct. They fundamentally don't understand player value. So they pivot to show that they're "doing something different" and they do that when negotiating with an actually useful player
This team has done this time and time again, through different regimes, with contracts. They pass it on to the fan base - we paid this guy, he needs to perform now! When guys like Taj and Jo and definitely Tyson Chandler got their extensions it was a race to immediately shit all over how much money these guys made and how they weren't living up to their contracts. The Vuc thing is the anomaly - a guy getting waaaaay overpaid who isn't performing and for some reason isn't the punching bag! So let's punch Demar! This has to be an AK thing and I hate it
Also, from Hollinger...
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5565480/2024/06/17/nba-free-agency-players-to-watch-2024/
DeRozan can technically agree to an extension before June 30 rather than a new free-agent contract; the advantage for Chicago would be that he’d be trade-eligible right away if the deal is for no more than two years and $61.5 million. Given that DeRozan will be 35 this year and the Bulls will run into luxury tax issues if they pay him much more than his current $28.3 million salary, that doesn’t seem like a far-fetched endgame.
To me, that's a win-win for both sides, even more-so than a Caruso extension. Demar gets more than he can on the open market this year and the Bulls have the flexibility to trade him. Maybe this is what the Bulls are pushing for, but who knows