Like yfbb said, with Trae Young out, everyone knew this team was going to come out flat expecting to just sleep walk their way to a victory.
I think a lot of people (including myself) thought that bringing in a tough, vocal leader would help reduce these kinds of games. And to an extent, bringing in Pat Bev has helped with that. It just hasn't helped nearly enough. So what's the problem?
Is it that our big three just don't care enough about winning? I think we could certainly argue that may be part of it. None of our big three have had much post season success. Obviously it's not a direct correlation, but true winners do seem to find themselves on teams that are successful.
Is it that our coaches aren't able to get these guys up for the "less important" games? If so, that's a problem that needs to be addressed. Are there other reasons this team can't help but play down to their competition?
Anyway, I've found that I enjoy this team the most when Pat and Coby come in. Coby has been playing great recently, even though last night was tough, and Pat has been playing pretty well off the bench too. I hope at least one of our big three is gone next year. My vote is DeMar, even though he's our best player. His game just doesn't fit the NBA currently and I think it hurts pretty much everyone else on this team.
It's been a while since I've used substack, but I remember video embeds being a pain. The easiest way to do it might be to tweet out the clip / embed the tweet.
Yeah, Coby's defense has improved this year, but he still has relatively short arms and doesn't have crazy athleticism. Not good when you're trying to defend in the post.
"And then Coby was bullied by Johnson easily and dismissively on this play." Man, that guy's a load. He was working everybody over. Johnson doesn't look like he's much of a shooter, but I wish P-Will had a bit more of that in him. They're basically the same size, so seems like it's more of a temperament thing. Although Pat did have that nice rebound and put-back dunk, which makes it all the more tantalizing and frustrating.
He also had that blow by and dunk on Collins. It's these little glimpses that are so infuriating but also give a glimmer of hope. Like if he could only make that a regular thing. If only...
Saddiq Bey had some nice aggressive inside finishes too.
but while this would normally be a game where I'd contrast that with Pat, he did alright in being a bit more aggressive offensively and hitting the offensive glass.
actually last night as opposed to most of the season, I thought Pat was pretty poor on defense, some bad fouls
I agree with your tweet that "heart" was not an issue - size is. For all that AK had a rep for wanting size and shooting, they didn't have any answers in that regard during this game. Also, with Zach and DeMar both shooting outside poorly, no game plan is going to save you.
If I were to quibble a bit, I think the Bulls should have played more jumbo with PWill and AD. Also, they should have continued to shoot the 3's - the Hawks were selling out a ton to prevent inside shots and the Bulls just need to keep trying to hit the open jumpers. I liked that PBev kept taking them - that's what we need! If you're a professional NBA player, you can't be afraid to take open shots.
For the life of me I don’t understand why Billy plays Jones at backup center at times instead of Drummond. Jones got killed last night in his 6 minutes at a key point in the game.
Drummond can’t shoot but he rebounds, is active, and seems to make things happen.
While I tend to agree, gameflow says otherwise about him getting killed... that was also the point in the game I believe where patbev and coby both missed fastbreak layups, zach turned it over and committed a stupid foul...
I had to give up at half time. Seemed like Atlanta was just strolling casually into the paint and then having an easy layup on most possessions. A bit of rim protection would have been nice.
Yeah this is the thing about Vucevic. The offensive stuff is fine, great, whatever. But the entire defense works at such a handicap not having a defensive anchor at center. I don't know how to get that guy, but this team desperately needs a huge defensive upgrade at the five.
I'd argue that the offensive stuff is too inconsistent for Vuc to be such a liability on defense. When Vuc is bad, he is really bad.
There's got to be a center out there who matches the team better than Vuc. Maybe not having a player like Vuc will also some of the role players a bit more aggressive, but that's just speculation. I'd be happy to let Vuc go, if only so I won't have to listen to Stacey yammering on about getting the ball inside to Vuc all the time. The phrase "It's a simple game" is really getting on my nerves.
I wonder.. could we do a packaged deal with Vuc and Stacey?
I just don't know who that guy is or how to get him. Like this roster needs AD. But we're not getting AD.
And yeah Stacey's been come unlistenable the last couple of years. Such a sad caricature of a schtick that was pretty fun from like 2010-2013ish. My wife instituted a ban on volume for Bulls games when she was pregnant case she couldn't bear to hear "gimme the hot sauce, Denzel Valentine!" one more time.
The legit stretch-5 with great defense is not an easy get. We don't have tall rebounding shot-blocking 3s or 4s either. Patrick Williams is a shifty 4 that can switch and help at a great level, but that size isn't there either.
See I'd be willing to live without the legit stretch portion of that if you can get the great defense. You don't want a guy that's a total zero out there, but check out how awesome Memphis has been with JJJ basically shooting league average from 3.
I mean part of it is the lack of complementary PF. Paw is getting better, but there is no one else with legit PF size on the roster, so you get Vuc starting with 4 guys under 6'6 at this point. It's a losing formula against a team like the hawks that actually have big guys.
They're probably just trying to find a narrative that fits the playstyle of the Bulls.
Stacey is driving me crazy and it's gotten a lot worse since Adam Amin joined. Adam is a giggling schoolgirl that seem to enable the constant catch phrases Stacey utter. A few weeks back when Bulls played Sixers the second time, a friend of mine and me had a drinking game going. Every time Stacey would use one of his catch phrases (a select few of them) you had to drink. We didn't make it through the second half. At least we probably had more fun than most viewers.
Vucevic is probably the best example of what happens when you try to make the "cart lead the horse" in the NBA
Vucevic can shoot the 3! Stretch 5!
Leads to -> Vucevic is a terrible defender. We need to surround him with a bunch of defensive guards to can protect him, although they can't really shoot worth a damn.
Leads to -> Well, sure, Vuc is a terrible defender, but we need him in there because he can shoot. Because our guards can't.
In the end, the Bulls just talked themselves into turning NBA common sense on its head. You have a big who can't defend but shoots (ok, not great) and a bunch of guards who can defend but not shoot.
This is a losing combination vs the traditional (Big defends, Guards shoot) approach for really obvious reasons even if the "Big Shoots/Guards Defend" is marginally more talented. Because the guards can't be the backstop that Vuc isn't. Turning your 7 footer into a spot up 3 point shooter kills your best chance of getting ORBs.
A similarly talented team with the traditional mix of skills is just better. And... Vuc simply isn't that talented. He's basically late career Brad Miller or Big Country Reeves.
There's a place for that guy as a change of pace kind of player, but as a piece of the "core" of a team he's just a complete train wreck.
This game was a faithful representation of this whole season. A team that is capable of good wins due to outlier performances (mainly by its top 2 players in DeRozan and Lavine), but is ultimately doomed by poor roster construction and limited financial resources (as in cheap ass ownership).
Sometimes the +/- tells a really clear story. This game was totally lost by the starters.
The Hawks starters were all + double digits, and all except Collins shot >50%. The Bulls starters were all - double digits.
The Bulls play two guys who are supposed to be great point-of-attack defenders, Caruso and PatBev, and the Hawks backcourt guys (Murray and Bogdanovic) both shot over 50% and combined for 14 assists to 2 turnovers.
I don't think playing guards who can't shoot is a winning strategy in any case, but if the strategy is supposed to be that these guys are such great defenders that they offset their offensive ineptitude, they gotta bring it better on defense than they did.
Like yfbb said, with Trae Young out, everyone knew this team was going to come out flat expecting to just sleep walk their way to a victory.
I think a lot of people (including myself) thought that bringing in a tough, vocal leader would help reduce these kinds of games. And to an extent, bringing in Pat Bev has helped with that. It just hasn't helped nearly enough. So what's the problem?
Is it that our big three just don't care enough about winning? I think we could certainly argue that may be part of it. None of our big three have had much post season success. Obviously it's not a direct correlation, but true winners do seem to find themselves on teams that are successful.
Is it that our coaches aren't able to get these guys up for the "less important" games? If so, that's a problem that needs to be addressed. Are there other reasons this team can't help but play down to their competition?
Anyway, I've found that I enjoy this team the most when Pat and Coby come in. Coby has been playing great recently, even though last night was tough, and Pat has been playing pretty well off the bench too. I hope at least one of our big three is gone next year. My vote is DeMar, even though he's our best player. His game just doesn't fit the NBA currently and I think it hurts pretty much everyone else on this team.
It's been a while since I've used substack, but I remember video embeds being a pain. The easiest way to do it might be to tweet out the clip / embed the tweet.
Teams picking on Coby on mismatches down low is not new. The Sixers were doing it a few weeks ago. https://twitter.com/StephNoh/status/1638708244591030273
Good stuff, Matt.
Yeah, Coby's defense has improved this year, but he still has relatively short arms and doesn't have crazy athleticism. Not good when you're trying to defend in the post.
"And then Coby was bullied by Johnson easily and dismissively on this play." Man, that guy's a load. He was working everybody over. Johnson doesn't look like he's much of a shooter, but I wish P-Will had a bit more of that in him. They're basically the same size, so seems like it's more of a temperament thing. Although Pat did have that nice rebound and put-back dunk, which makes it all the more tantalizing and frustrating.
He also had that blow by and dunk on Collins. It's these little glimpses that are so infuriating but also give a glimmer of hope. Like if he could only make that a regular thing. If only...
Saddiq Bey had some nice aggressive inside finishes too.
but while this would normally be a game where I'd contrast that with Pat, he did alright in being a bit more aggressive offensively and hitting the offensive glass.
actually last night as opposed to most of the season, I thought Pat was pretty poor on defense, some bad fouls
I agree with your tweet that "heart" was not an issue - size is. For all that AK had a rep for wanting size and shooting, they didn't have any answers in that regard during this game. Also, with Zach and DeMar both shooting outside poorly, no game plan is going to save you.
If I were to quibble a bit, I think the Bulls should have played more jumbo with PWill and AD. Also, they should have continued to shoot the 3's - the Hawks were selling out a ton to prevent inside shots and the Bulls just need to keep trying to hit the open jumpers. I liked that PBev kept taking them - that's what we need! If you're a professional NBA player, you can't be afraid to take open shots.
For the life of me I don’t understand why Billy plays Jones at backup center at times instead of Drummond. Jones got killed last night in his 6 minutes at a key point in the game.
Drummond can’t shoot but he rebounds, is active, and seems to make things happen.
While I tend to agree, gameflow says otherwise about him getting killed... that was also the point in the game I believe where patbev and coby both missed fastbreak layups, zach turned it over and committed a stupid foul...
Because Drummond sucks.
I had to give up at half time. Seemed like Atlanta was just strolling casually into the paint and then having an easy layup on most possessions. A bit of rim protection would have been nice.
Yeah this is the thing about Vucevic. The offensive stuff is fine, great, whatever. But the entire defense works at such a handicap not having a defensive anchor at center. I don't know how to get that guy, but this team desperately needs a huge defensive upgrade at the five.
I'd argue that the offensive stuff is too inconsistent for Vuc to be such a liability on defense. When Vuc is bad, he is really bad.
There's got to be a center out there who matches the team better than Vuc. Maybe not having a player like Vuc will also some of the role players a bit more aggressive, but that's just speculation. I'd be happy to let Vuc go, if only so I won't have to listen to Stacey yammering on about getting the ball inside to Vuc all the time. The phrase "It's a simple game" is really getting on my nerves.
I wonder.. could we do a packaged deal with Vuc and Stacey?
I just don't know who that guy is or how to get him. Like this roster needs AD. But we're not getting AD.
And yeah Stacey's been come unlistenable the last couple of years. Such a sad caricature of a schtick that was pretty fun from like 2010-2013ish. My wife instituted a ban on volume for Bulls games when she was pregnant case she couldn't bear to hear "gimme the hot sauce, Denzel Valentine!" one more time.
The legit stretch-5 with great defense is not an easy get. We don't have tall rebounding shot-blocking 3s or 4s either. Patrick Williams is a shifty 4 that can switch and help at a great level, but that size isn't there either.
Like, the Jonathon Isaac + Vuc pairing was pretty nice, but we didn't really get to see that blossom because of the Isaac injury.
See I'd be willing to live without the legit stretch portion of that if you can get the great defense. You don't want a guy that's a total zero out there, but check out how awesome Memphis has been with JJJ basically shooting league average from 3.
I mean part of it is the lack of complementary PF. Paw is getting better, but there is no one else with legit PF size on the roster, so you get Vuc starting with 4 guys under 6'6 at this point. It's a losing formula against a team like the hawks that actually have big guys.
A couple games back Stacey was getting on Pat for "settling for the 3" instead of driving inside and I almost lost my shit.
Fast forward to the post game and Kendall Gill was talking about how the Bulls lost because they "took too many 3s".
I wonder where the institutional mandate come from for the Bulls to still pretend it's the 1990s?
Ha. What rich and powerful person who peaked in the 90s could possibly be responsible for setting that particular org culture?
They're probably just trying to find a narrative that fits the playstyle of the Bulls.
Stacey is driving me crazy and it's gotten a lot worse since Adam Amin joined. Adam is a giggling schoolgirl that seem to enable the constant catch phrases Stacey utter. A few weeks back when Bulls played Sixers the second time, a friend of mine and me had a drinking game going. Every time Stacey would use one of his catch phrases (a select few of them) you had to drink. We didn't make it through the second half. At least we probably had more fun than most viewers.
Vucevic is probably the best example of what happens when you try to make the "cart lead the horse" in the NBA
Vucevic can shoot the 3! Stretch 5!
Leads to -> Vucevic is a terrible defender. We need to surround him with a bunch of defensive guards to can protect him, although they can't really shoot worth a damn.
Leads to -> Well, sure, Vuc is a terrible defender, but we need him in there because he can shoot. Because our guards can't.
In the end, the Bulls just talked themselves into turning NBA common sense on its head. You have a big who can't defend but shoots (ok, not great) and a bunch of guards who can defend but not shoot.
This is a losing combination vs the traditional (Big defends, Guards shoot) approach for really obvious reasons even if the "Big Shoots/Guards Defend" is marginally more talented. Because the guards can't be the backstop that Vuc isn't. Turning your 7 footer into a spot up 3 point shooter kills your best chance of getting ORBs.
A similarly talented team with the traditional mix of skills is just better. And... Vuc simply isn't that talented. He's basically late career Brad Miller or Big Country Reeves.
There's a place for that guy as a change of pace kind of player, but as a piece of the "core" of a team he's just a complete train wreck.
This game was a faithful representation of this whole season. A team that is capable of good wins due to outlier performances (mainly by its top 2 players in DeRozan and Lavine), but is ultimately doomed by poor roster construction and limited financial resources (as in cheap ass ownership).
In the end, math prevails, and 3 > 2.
Sometimes the +/- tells a really clear story. This game was totally lost by the starters.
The Hawks starters were all + double digits, and all except Collins shot >50%. The Bulls starters were all - double digits.
The Bulls play two guys who are supposed to be great point-of-attack defenders, Caruso and PatBev, and the Hawks backcourt guys (Murray and Bogdanovic) both shot over 50% and combined for 14 assists to 2 turnovers.
I don't think playing guards who can't shoot is a winning strategy in any case, but if the strategy is supposed to be that these guys are such great defenders that they offset their offensive ineptitude, they gotta bring it better on defense than they did.