I get the Australian media is obviously going to root for their guys, but using random tweets from fans as proof that Giddey is actually really good is just lazy. Give some actual stats, people!
Decided to read a couple other stories about Giddey on that website just for fun and there were people commenting that the NBA actively discriminates against Australians, which is why Giddey and Simmons haven't become stars.
I found it funny how many fans were talking about how much he'd improved his three point shooting over the summer after he started out hot over the first handful of games.
I get that in sports we like to hope for the best but I just don't understand people who don't think critically about stuff. After the playoffs Giddey basically went straight to Australia to start preparing for the Olympics. I guarantee most of that time was spent getting settled into his role for that team and learning to play with his teammates, not working on his three point shot.
He then got injured in his final game of the Olympics and spent the remainder of the summer rehabbing his ankle. And it's not like Bulls fans don't know this. It was widely publicized that Giddey wasn't fully healthy entering training camp but was getting pretty close. I can guarantee you he wasn't working on his three point shot much while rehabbing his ankle.
So when he has a hot start to the year, why is the immediate conclusion that he must have worked on his shot a ton over the offseason when pretty much everything points to that not even being possible?
It's the same thing with Pat's slow start to the season. A bunch of fans got mad that he didn't look way better coming into the season. Like what did you expect? He missed the second half of last season after having surgery and spent the entire summer rehabbing. Plus, he starts every season slow before ramping up to mediocre.
Lonzo seems more like a buy out candidate than a trade candidate though I’m not sure if an insurance payment would be more tempting to Reinsdorf than saving a few million on a buyout.
He’s played in six so he can only play in 10 more games if they want the insurance payment. He probably will get there unless he gets another major injury. A buyout seems likely then.
Three other trade scenarios for our BIG TWO (plus Lonzo's salary slot too):
- Salary match when another team needs to dump or is forced to trade a high-priced disgruntled star (along with much or all of the Bulls' future drafts). Unfortunately, AKME never get the Bulls' name mentioned when such deals become in play (I see maybe Giannis, AD, Zion/BI, even Anthony Edwards -- in the same way that AD, Lebron, Durant, Lillard, Mitchell, Harden, etc got traded/forced their way out...it DOES happen)
- Strongly contending team loses a major piece to injury -- goes all-in on a 2025 fill-in (and has a savvy enough front office to deal with any salary mess down the line)
who knows what the Lakers are thinking, but if I were them I wouldn't be too concerned with the post-LeBron era at the expense of this year, and they can get a *proven playoff performer* for 2 FRP. And the Bulls have none of those.
I do hope the Bulls have a plan for the summer to get a disgruntled star, or at least be mentioned (like you said, this never happens), if they don't get a sufficiently high pick in the lottery. I don't think they'd deal their pick now before finding out.
In that hypothetical, say Zion, the other team will not want LaVine, but they'd more be willing to take whatever the Bulls got for LaVine this year, even if was simply better contracts. And then Vuc is an expiring contract too.
As far as Vuc goes, it might be worth it to reach out to Denver. Their backup center situation is awful this year, at this point Gordon is the backup 5. Due to this, Jokic is having to play heavy minutes and is going to get worn out by the time the playoffs come. Is it possible that we could pawn off Vuc to them so they can get some decent center play off the bench for the regular season so Jokic can be rested for the playoffs?
Denver's an example of why Vuc making so much is a problem. Yes he'd be a good backup center. But they have been trimming around the edges for years and are over the first apron so they don't have the contracts for non-essential players to make a deal where they take in $20M
Whereas they could trade for Jonas Valanciunas (makes $10M) and send out Zeke Nnaji and Dario Saric
"they’re firmly in the top ten of the tank race and I’m not worried at all they will be 'too good'"
I do find it ironic that you linked to Tankathon which currently has the Bulls at #15. So they're definitely not "firmly in the top ten" unfortunately. They're not even bottom ten in the standings right now.
Not saying I'm super worried they're going to lose their pick, but they're also not exactly filling me with confidence that they'll keep it.
Right. Hence why I said I'm not super worried they're going to lose their pick. I just thought it was ironic that you linked to Tankathon in your statement about the Bulls being firmly in the top 10 when Tankathon lists the Bulls as being out of the lottery.
Certainly not a big deal. Just gave me a chuckle when I clicked the link and it had the Bulls at 15.
agreed, I found it funny that the mention of the Bulls in trade rumors was so notable last week, when it was just that they were looking to deal the same guys they've been trying to deal for years. Maybe Lonzo and Patrick Williams are new names, but not that surprising they make a lot of money.
It be actual news if the Bulls were proactive and dealt Coby or Ayo. It'd be ironically very Bulls to deal them now as their value has only gone down this year (though not too much I don't think)
yea i dont think their value hasnt changed much. Ayo is having a down year from 3 but Coby is having a pretty similar year and is still hitting 38% from 3 with high volume. Plenty of teams could use him as a top 6th man who would feast against bench units and be able to start at times. His contract is damn good considering his production...same goes for Ayo. I think teams would assume he would be able to get back to at least 35% from 3
I think it's a good idea if Orlando was desperate. Like I do think going from KCP->LaVine would be a positive offense and not too much drop off in defense. But they shouldn't be that worried about their offense, they have Banchero coming back
and then beyond this year is where they really have reason to balk. Franz goes from 7M to 38M Suggs from 9M to 35M. Last year of Banchero's rookie deal, and LaVine makes 2x of KCP.
Boy, those Franz and Suggs raises are staggering. I don't see them contending, though, if they can't add scoring and spacing. I'd argue that KCP and Anthony is $32M in bad money. Consolidating the salary match into Lavine, then replacing the other 2 guards at rookie/vet minimums, while putting Paolo, Franz and Zach out there with great defensive role players might not get them past Boston, but they'd look pretty darn good.
shout-out to the tank brained in their time of need.
Bulls added their play-in losers pool games, and they're against the Hornets and Raptors. Plus the Spurs hilariously are holding out Wemby on Thursday so the Bulls get a W and maybe give them their pick.
All the more reason you can't worry about this stuff! The Bulls are run by morons with no plan, that's the concern. Not that they aren't doing these tanking maneuvers for individual games.
I see the Lakers gave up 134 to the Heat on Wednesday night. Maybe that increases outright desperation, though I doubt the remedy to their ills is LaVine and Vuc
As for LaVine, the more I think about it I can't see why the Lakers, if looking for a big-money player, wouldn't just trade for Brandon Ingram instead.
Ingram doesn't help their spacing, but is bigger, younger, cheaper, contract expires and (if this matters) used to the Lakers crucible
there's the issue where they can't take back additional salary and the Pelicans can't either (they're looking to duck below the tax, about $3M over) but that would just require a third team. And the mid-market Bulls also aren't looking to take on salary (though they have more room.
I think the issue is instead that Ingram will require better assets, for NO to move him, but that market could drop as we get closer to the deadline and they still look hopelessly out of the West playoffs.
Yeah that's not bad! Bc Rockets have a starting center making little they can justify Vuc as backup. Of course would be nice to get some rookie contract or second rounder too
Rockets could still balk because Sengun goes to $35M next year. But they could probably be confident they could move Vuc as an expiring in the summer or have him as flotsam in a star trade
I agree, too, but completely stumped with how that actually happens without taking on an even longer/worse contract. Maybe Beal, Leonard, or Zion if their injury problems continue to worsen (like out for a Lonzo period of time)? Would Miami do Rozier+Duncan for an extra year of Zac? The longer I look at it, the more I’m convinced he’ll be here for the next 3 years unless the Bulls attach assets.
Maybe Indiana would want Vuc? I was just reminded (because they received two DPEs) that both their backup centers are out for the season with achilles injuries. He certainly would fit their style of play.
they're a historically poor franchise so I'm not sure they'll want a $20M backup to Myles Turner, and they can't really play together. But Turner is going to be a FA so maybe this gives them some cover. And they just extended Obi Toppin through 2028 and may regret it already.
Vuc, Craig
for
Toppin, Weisman (expiring)
Maybe Bulls get a 2nd rounder or recently drafted player. I think this is not that constricting cap-wise, because both mid-market teams are below the first apron. Though neither want to even go into the tax...this version would put Indiana in the tax (and not much they'd want to dump) so maybe they say no to Torrey Craig's inclusion
Yes, Vuc with 39 last night against the Wemby-less Spurs frontcourt, and it's getting worrisome that Vuc is "playing too well" to be traded.
The problem, as always, is that AKME doesn't know what they're doing, and don't know the between counting stats and actually being valuable to a team. And if you put a end-of-East-roster All Star selection on Vuc as well, that's going to drive up the asking price far beyond what a rational team would want to give up for the privilege of a $20M backup center
Could even say you're putting that on the barbie 🇦🇺
I get the Australian media is obviously going to root for their guys, but using random tweets from fans as proof that Giddey is actually really good is just lazy. Give some actual stats, people!
Decided to read a couple other stories about Giddey on that website just for fun and there were people commenting that the NBA actively discriminates against Australians, which is why Giddey and Simmons haven't become stars.
The stats are:
First 11 games -> .431
Last 14 games -> .241
It's been a while since that magical 4 for 4 against the magic.
I found it funny how many fans were talking about how much he'd improved his three point shooting over the summer after he started out hot over the first handful of games.
I get that in sports we like to hope for the best but I just don't understand people who don't think critically about stuff. After the playoffs Giddey basically went straight to Australia to start preparing for the Olympics. I guarantee most of that time was spent getting settled into his role for that team and learning to play with his teammates, not working on his three point shot.
He then got injured in his final game of the Olympics and spent the remainder of the summer rehabbing his ankle. And it's not like Bulls fans don't know this. It was widely publicized that Giddey wasn't fully healthy entering training camp but was getting pretty close. I can guarantee you he wasn't working on his three point shot much while rehabbing his ankle.
So when he has a hot start to the year, why is the immediate conclusion that he must have worked on his shot a ton over the offseason when pretty much everything points to that not even being possible?
It's the same thing with Pat's slow start to the season. A bunch of fans got mad that he didn't look way better coming into the season. Like what did you expect? He missed the second half of last season after having surgery and spent the entire summer rehabbing. Plus, he starts every season slow before ramping up to mediocre.
Maybe this is why they made it so hard to watch CHSN for so long 😏
He just had his birthday too!
Lonzo seems more like a buy out candidate than a trade candidate though I’m not sure if an insurance payment would be more tempting to Reinsdorf than saving a few million on a buyout.
They're only eligible for the insurance reimbursement if he misses 80% of games
He’s played in six so he can only play in 10 more games if they want the insurance payment. He probably will get there unless he gets another major injury. A buyout seems likely then.
Three other trade scenarios for our BIG TWO (plus Lonzo's salary slot too):
- Salary match when another team needs to dump or is forced to trade a high-priced disgruntled star (along with much or all of the Bulls' future drafts). Unfortunately, AKME never get the Bulls' name mentioned when such deals become in play (I see maybe Giannis, AD, Zion/BI, even Anthony Edwards -- in the same way that AD, Lebron, Durant, Lillard, Mitchell, Harden, etc got traded/forced their way out...it DOES happen)
- Strongly contending team loses a major piece to injury -- goes all-in on a 2025 fill-in (and has a savvy enough front office to deal with any salary mess down the line)
- Unadulterated trade deadline desperation.
who knows what the Lakers are thinking, but if I were them I wouldn't be too concerned with the post-LeBron era at the expense of this year, and they can get a *proven playoff performer* for 2 FRP. And the Bulls have none of those.
I do hope the Bulls have a plan for the summer to get a disgruntled star, or at least be mentioned (like you said, this never happens), if they don't get a sufficiently high pick in the lottery. I don't think they'd deal their pick now before finding out.
In that hypothetical, say Zion, the other team will not want LaVine, but they'd more be willing to take whatever the Bulls got for LaVine this year, even if was simply better contracts. And then Vuc is an expiring contract too.
As far as Vuc goes, it might be worth it to reach out to Denver. Their backup center situation is awful this year, at this point Gordon is the backup 5. Due to this, Jokic is having to play heavy minutes and is going to get worn out by the time the playoffs come. Is it possible that we could pawn off Vuc to them so they can get some decent center play off the bench for the regular season so Jokic can be rested for the playoffs?
Denver's an example of why Vuc making so much is a problem. Yes he'd be a good backup center. But they have been trimming around the edges for years and are over the first apron so they don't have the contracts for non-essential players to make a deal where they take in $20M
Whereas they could trade for Jonas Valanciunas (makes $10M) and send out Zeke Nnaji and Dario Saric
SAD BUT TRUUUUUUEEEEE
"they’re firmly in the top ten of the tank race and I’m not worried at all they will be 'too good'"
I do find it ironic that you linked to Tankathon which currently has the Bulls at #15. So they're definitely not "firmly in the top ten" unfortunately. They're not even bottom ten in the standings right now.
Not saying I'm super worried they're going to lose their pick, but they're also not exactly filling me with confidence that they'll keep it.
Tankathon assumes the 8th place team makes the playoffs
Right. Hence why I said I'm not super worried they're going to lose their pick. I just thought it was ironic that you linked to Tankathon in your statement about the Bulls being firmly in the top 10 when Tankathon lists the Bulls as being out of the lottery.
Certainly not a big deal. Just gave me a chuckle when I clicked the link and it had the Bulls at 15.
the only true positive assets we have are Coby and Ayo. Love them both but might as well sell high
i think Coby could fetch 1 FRP, Ayo could bring a couple 2nds
agreed, I found it funny that the mention of the Bulls in trade rumors was so notable last week, when it was just that they were looking to deal the same guys they've been trying to deal for years. Maybe Lonzo and Patrick Williams are new names, but not that surprising they make a lot of money.
It be actual news if the Bulls were proactive and dealt Coby or Ayo. It'd be ironically very Bulls to deal them now as their value has only gone down this year (though not too much I don't think)
yea i dont think their value hasnt changed much. Ayo is having a down year from 3 but Coby is having a pretty similar year and is still hitting 38% from 3 with high volume. Plenty of teams could use him as a top 6th man who would feast against bench units and be able to start at times. His contract is damn good considering his production...same goes for Ayo. I think teams would assume he would be able to get back to at least 35% from 3
Hypothetical:
ORL gets: Lavine
CHI gets: KCP, Cole Anthony, Jett Howard, Caleb Houstan, '25 2nd rounder
ORL takes out the trash from their guard rotation, puts a nice patch on their anemic offense
CHI gets a pick and smaller contracts that are easier to deal off, plus tanks harder (-5 wins!)
I think it's a good idea if Orlando was desperate. Like I do think going from KCP->LaVine would be a positive offense and not too much drop off in defense. But they shouldn't be that worried about their offense, they have Banchero coming back
and then beyond this year is where they really have reason to balk. Franz goes from 7M to 38M Suggs from 9M to 35M. Last year of Banchero's rookie deal, and LaVine makes 2x of KCP.
Boy, those Franz and Suggs raises are staggering. I don't see them contending, though, if they can't add scoring and spacing. I'd argue that KCP and Anthony is $32M in bad money. Consolidating the salary match into Lavine, then replacing the other 2 guards at rookie/vet minimums, while putting Paolo, Franz and Zach out there with great defensive role players might not get them past Boston, but they'd look pretty darn good.
shout-out to the tank brained in their time of need.
Bulls added their play-in losers pool games, and they're against the Hornets and Raptors. Plus the Spurs hilariously are holding out Wemby on Thursday so the Bulls get a W and maybe give them their pick.
All the more reason you can't worry about this stuff! The Bulls are run by morons with no plan, that's the concern. Not that they aren't doing these tanking maneuvers for individual games.
I see the Lakers gave up 134 to the Heat on Wednesday night. Maybe that increases outright desperation, though I doubt the remedy to their ills is LaVine and Vuc
As for LaVine, the more I think about it I can't see why the Lakers, if looking for a big-money player, wouldn't just trade for Brandon Ingram instead.
Ingram doesn't help their spacing, but is bigger, younger, cheaper, contract expires and (if this matters) used to the Lakers crucible
there's the issue where they can't take back additional salary and the Pelicans can't either (they're looking to duck below the tax, about $3M over) but that would just require a third team. And the mid-market Bulls also aren't looking to take on salary (though they have more room.
I think the issue is instead that Ingram will require better assets, for NO to move him, but that market could drop as we get closer to the deadline and they still look hopelessly out of the West playoffs.
Well nevermind Ingram is out weeks with an ankle sprain. I'd say bubble wrap LaVine, but he's playing low intensity ball so likely minimal risk
Vuc for Jeff Green and Steven Adams?
Yeah that's not bad! Bc Rockets have a starting center making little they can justify Vuc as backup. Of course would be nice to get some rookie contract or second rounder too
Rockets could still balk because Sengun goes to $35M next year. But they could probably be confident they could move Vuc as an expiring in the summer or have him as flotsam in a star trade
Could sub out Tate (also 1 yr) or Landale (multi year) for Jeff Green….
Also Simmons and Whitehead for Zach and our 1st and the Portland 1st.
One thing I'm in rare agreement with AKME is not including assets just to get rid of Zach. Maybe Dalen Terry (if he's considered an asset)
I agree, too, but completely stumped with how that actually happens without taking on an even longer/worse contract. Maybe Beal, Leonard, or Zion if their injury problems continue to worsen (like out for a Lonzo period of time)? Would Miami do Rozier+Duncan for an extra year of Zac? The longer I look at it, the more I’m convinced he’ll be here for the next 3 years unless the Bulls attach assets.
How do you follow up that great trade proposal with Vooch to the Rockets with this one? My mind is melting!
I just want him gone!!!
So do I, but I don't want our picks gone too.
If you start trading picks you might as well just close down the franchise and rent out the UC as an Airbnb
Maybe Indiana would want Vuc? I was just reminded (because they received two DPEs) that both their backup centers are out for the season with achilles injuries. He certainly would fit their style of play.
they're a historically poor franchise so I'm not sure they'll want a $20M backup to Myles Turner, and they can't really play together. But Turner is going to be a FA so maybe this gives them some cover. And they just extended Obi Toppin through 2028 and may regret it already.
Vuc, Craig
for
Toppin, Weisman (expiring)
Maybe Bulls get a 2nd rounder or recently drafted player. I think this is not that constricting cap-wise, because both mid-market teams are below the first apron. Though neither want to even go into the tax...this version would put Indiana in the tax (and not much they'd want to dump) so maybe they say no to Torrey Craig's inclusion
Vuc, being an All-Star, will not be traded to be a backup to a non-All-Star no matter how much actual sense it makes.
Yes, Vuc with 39 last night against the Wemby-less Spurs frontcourt, and it's getting worrisome that Vuc is "playing too well" to be traded.
The problem, as always, is that AKME doesn't know what they're doing, and don't know the between counting stats and actually being valuable to a team. And if you put a end-of-East-roster All Star selection on Vuc as well, that's going to drive up the asking price far beyond what a rational team would want to give up for the privilege of a $20M backup center
Spurs game thread -> https://open.substack.com/chat/posts/40e2c929-c44e-4cd8-b299-54f99d88b421
LaVine has the best +/- on the team (non-garbage-time-players) and it's not close? That's different, and welcome.
Would have been welcome years ago. Don't exactly love it now though.