True would only work on a strong defensive team like Minnesota. Our team already is total trash defensively and he would make it a complete dumpster fire.
He is a great passer but his shooting has always been mostly sus to me. His reputation as a shooter has generally been greater than his actual numbers.
Hate to say this but I'd rather have Giddey at 25 than Trae at damn near 50
I thought I addressed this: they have a broken defense now and they would still have a broken one with Trae Young. Would need to address that, you're not going to fix everything in one trade that's Nick Friedell Over The Top logic
Nah I read what you wrote, I get it. My main issues are Trae's salary. He is a better playmaker than Giddey sure but is he THAT much better as a passer? And his shooting has been pretty ass for a while so it's not like you are gaining much on that end.
Plus he doesn't have much value off ball, so you gotta do the heliocentric thing with him and we already have proof that he is good enough to really make that work.
So that being said, what is the point of bringing him in?
Apparently Hawks are talking to Wizards about trading Trae for expiring contracts. That would set them up with $46-$50 million in cap space going into the off-season, enough to take in a max contract. My best guess as to why they want to do that is to try and get Austin Reaves. It could also be though that they want to trade for Davis but want to make sure they've got Trae off their books first.
It makes no sense at all for us to trade expiring contracts to Atlanta in order to get back Trae and his $49 million player option. There are two ways I would do this deal.
One way would be to get Trae to renegotiate and extend. If he would agree to a deal that started at $38 next year with 8% raises that would be fair. I would still want Atlanta to take Tre Jones too. If that deal happened we would still have over $40 million of cap space for the off season.
The other way I would do the deal would be to offer Tre, Pat and an expiring, Huerter maybe. If Young is intent on exercising his $49m option, this would leave us $47 million of space and no Pat. Win/win.
I'm not sure why we would want to trade Giddey at this point. He's a young player on a very good contract that is still getting better. I would see Trae and Josh sharing the playmaking, and Trae adding more shooting which we really need.
I'm not sure I see a world where Trae and Giddey make sense together. They both need the ball in their hands to be effective and they both aren't good defenders (yes, I know you'll say Giddey isn't that bad of a defender, but he is when it actually matters - the postseason).
The only way I see bringing in Trae as making any sense is if Giddey is traded elsewhere. And to be fair, like you say, Giddey is on a good contract. It's possible the Bulls could get something decent in return for him.
Do I think Trae at nearly $50 million is worth more than Giddey at $25? Absolutely not. Could I be talked into it if other moves are made like yfbb suggested? Maybe. But then again, I can't see AK making multiple moves. If he brings in Trae he's going to call it quits there and brag about the big move he made and the team will continue to suck.
I know you are clinging to the thought that Giddey would be exposed on defense in the playoffs. To me that is ridiculous but I know you are not the only one who thinks that.
I had the unfortunate experience of being at Giddey's last game, against the Wolves. Giddey was matched up against Jaden McDaniels. Finch had the idea to have McDaniels go after Giddey to start the game. He made the first shot on a turn around jumper and missed the next five, all difficult and contested shots. Wolves changed their strategy after that.
Josh does need to keep improving on the defensive end. He needs to get stronger and more physical. He's also a bit soft on his close-outs. But he's 6'8", sees the court well and is good with his rotations. Most advanced metrics rate him as an average defender, which is what he looks like to me.
"I know you are clinging to the thought that Giddey would be exposed on defense in the playoffs. To me that is ridiculous but I know you are not the only one who thinks that."
I'm clinging to the facts that Josh Giddey's defense has been exposed in every postseason game he's played, yes.
I would love for Giddey to prove me wrong in the postseason. I fully admit that I didn't think Giddey's finish to the 24-25 season was sustainable and it's clear that it is. I'll also happily admit it if he can prove me wrong on his postseason defense.
But so far every single team that has intentionally gone after him with their best players (i.e. not Jaden McDaniels) has absolutely smoked him. It's not a matter of effort or awareness. I agree with you that Giddey does try on defense and he's smart enough to put himself in good positions. The problem is his athleticism. When an athletic guard/forward goes at him, he just can't keep up.
I think a lot of the same things can be said of Vooch. He's smart and knows how to position himself on defense. That's why he gets a lot of deflections and even blocks more shots than you'd think when you see how cemented his feet are to the ground. But when teams really go at Vooch, he just can't hold up due to his lack of athleticism.
I think it's simply untenable defensively to have Giddey with Young
I do agree that part of any Trae trade would be a renegotiation and extension. Longer term but less on 2026-27 payroll. Same with Anthony Davis.
and yes my crazy idea involved moving Pat Williams. That will cost the Bulls a pick. Doing so in a much much larger deal doesn't make it look like that though. The Hawks (or Mavs in my example) can lie and say the pick is for their star player they traded
I'm thinking the same thing regarding Pat and the pick. Trae's defense alongside any other four players may be untenable, I don't know. He's pretty bad, and hard to even scheme around.
I think the only point in bringing him in would be with the hope that you can lure another fairly big name in after, like yfbb is suggesting. Do I think AK can do that? Absolutely not.
Anyone having faith Ak can pull off multiple positive moves is in dreamland. And players aren't chomping at the bit to play with Trae Young. I dont think he is a guy that is going to attract ppl to want to join the Bulls.
I just never bought into the hype with him. He had one postseason run and has been whatever since then. He has special talents but he has to be one of your 2 best players to make sense but he ain't good enough to justify that role in the pecking order
Hawks reddit is in shambles over the paltry return on their "franchise player."
Someday, millions of years after the sun burns out, NBA fans are going to realize that the contract doesn't mean anything other than some jackass GM offered it because he didn't know what else to do.
Losing players should be cheap and as far as basketball goes the direct evidence suggests that Trae Young is a loser.
In my view it's analogous to the way Zach Lavine has been stealing money for his entire career. If you're paying guys like Trae or Zach based on the premise that they help you win games you're a mark.
It is not fait accompli that Bulls make the play-in. Hawks lessened upside but McCollum and Kispert are playing and Trae wasn't. Especially if they get more from Porzingis (or trade him for AD) they'll stay ahead.
And the Bucks are a half game behind Chicago and appear to have buy mindset as well
If the Hawks aren't able to swing a deal for AD, I'd like to see this Classic Karnisovas swap go down.
To Hawks: Coby and Vooch
To Bulls: Porzingis and Newell
Assuming Porzingis doesn't fully snap back to form, the Hawks stabilize their front court, and I can actually see Vooch being a solid fit. Coby fits pretty well there, too, and if things work well, the Hawks could have the inside track to re-sign him next year (and they’d be able to go over the cap to do so).
Bulls get a glimpse of what Giddey would look like paired with a stretch big that can actually protect the rim. Best case scenario, things work well and they can re-sign him on a reasonable deal. If not, then he's expiring. In lieu of a draft pick, Newell was just drafted so you’d get most of his rookie deal. I thought he looked pretty good when he got some time against the Bulls earlier this year.
The idea of Hawks wanting Coby is interesting. You got to wonder what they are planning to do at point guard. I've heard they want to give Daniels a look as playmaker. Right now they've got McCollum to also fill in as lead guard but he's not a long-term solution for them. He does add shooting though for the rest of this year, as does Kispert.
I would think Atlanta's #1 focus right now is whether they can get Anthony Davis. They may need to include Newell in an AD trade.
I would say that Coby could make a lot of sense for them for next year. Right now Hawks are set up to have $30 million of cap space this off season and could be interested in making him an offer.
However, for this year it seems to me they already have good options for back court shooting. Unless they see Coby as a point guard option for them, I don't see them as a player for Coby right now.
Since 2020, Trae Young has made four all-star appearances and took the Hawks to the conference finals. They just traded him for an expiring contract and an average role player.
Nikola Vucevic has made zero all-star appearances since being traded to the Bulls, with zero playoff series wins and a bunch of play-in losses. The Bulls front office is calling him in the summer to let him know that all trade rumors are false because they really value him.
An important difference is that Vuc makes less than half what Trae makes. You expect a different level of performance from a $21M/yr player compared to a $46M/yr player.
FWIW, Vuc is still overvalued (and overpaid) by AK, but that's a different matter.
Yeah, I know it’s not an apples-to-apples comparison.
My point was just that a player who’s actually accomplished some things over the past few years was traded for close to nothing, because their (new) front office acknowledged his faults and recognized it’s time to move on. But AK is refusing to move on from Vuc for no good reason at all.
Vuc is a second/third tier player and paid like it. Trae is paid like a top tier player.
At $46M/yr, Trae is more comparable to Zach at $45M (or whatever). And yes, Zach looks terrible in comparison. AK moved on from Zach (far too late, but he did).
I agree we should move on from Vuc, but at $21M Vuc is a smaller piece of the puzzle. More of the team's failure to make the playoffs or have any notable success lays at the feet of Zach & AK for not replacing Lonzo soon enough.
This may be a hot take, but with the murmurings about the Bulls having interest in Zion, I think they should go for it if they can get him for expirings like the Wizards were able to do with Trae. I have a feeling New Orleans may not be willing to dump him for only expirings and I don't trust AK to not overpay, but if there were a reality where both of those things were possible, I think I'd be fine taking that gamble.
When healthy, Zion is absolutely worth his contract. His contract also has a lot of clauses about his weight and his health, which are the two big question marks looming over him. So if he ends up not meeting those, the Bulls can basically just dump him and end up back in the same place they currently are.
While this probably indicates he's saying whatever he can to get clicks, it's also totally possible that AK was indicating he'd be a major seller only a few weeks ago and has since done a complete 180. 😂😂
That was Kirshenbaum, saying the same crap. Essengue doesn't count as a real draft pick because Bulls had that pick some time prior. AK gave up too much for Vuc 5 years ago. Yeah ok.
He thinks we can get a 1st for an expiring Ayo? Text AK and let him know what team that would be, please.
I'm of the same thought. Zion is under contract till 2028 and it's not like he's getting the player max, so he can fit the bulls timeline. You can also get him (well, maybe not our front office) without losing a pick or buzelis.
A core of giddey, buzelis, and zion sounds bad defensively but there's potential there on offense and it wouldn't break the proverbial bank.
Zion if healthy is a superstar level talent, and his injuries aren't anything irreparable. And he's 25. It kind of fits.
A fun moonshot would be to make a play for Porzingis like I mentioned before and then also Zion, and see what happens. High ceiling and low floor. I feel like Giddey / Okoro or Ayo / Buzelis / Zion / Porzingis would at the very least be interesting.
I clearly don't expect that aggressive set of moves out of AKME, but dare to dream...
But he's also probably available for expiring contracts, so the Bulls could just trade away some expirings and have more control over re-signing him in the summer if things worked out over the remainder of this season.
Edit: Not saying they necessarily should do that. It just seems like if they were to go after KP, it would make more sense to do it by the deadline than over the summer.
Yeah, Zion can play when he's healthy. But he'd use up $42 mil of our cap space and we'd still need a rim protector. I think we'd be better off waiting to see if the Pels will waive him, and if so then make him a lower offer in free agency.
They've needed a rim protector since Joakim was here. I have to conclude that is simply not on the radar for this management group or coaching staff. A big who can play defense is not important to them. They don't consider that an important aspect of winning NBA games. I think if the Bulls had a center like that Billy would have him buried so far down the bench you'd forget what he looks like.
True would only work on a strong defensive team like Minnesota. Our team already is total trash defensively and he would make it a complete dumpster fire.
He is a great passer but his shooting has always been mostly sus to me. His reputation as a shooter has generally been greater than his actual numbers.
Hate to say this but I'd rather have Giddey at 25 than Trae at damn near 50
Let him go to the Wizards...
I came in to say basically the same thing.
I thought I addressed this: they have a broken defense now and they would still have a broken one with Trae Young. Would need to address that, you're not going to fix everything in one trade that's Nick Friedell Over The Top logic
Nah I read what you wrote, I get it. My main issues are Trae's salary. He is a better playmaker than Giddey sure but is he THAT much better as a passer? And his shooting has been pretty ass for a while so it's not like you are gaining much on that end.
Plus he doesn't have much value off ball, so you gotta do the heliocentric thing with him and we already have proof that he is good enough to really make that work.
So that being said, what is the point of bringing him in?
I think you're underrating how much his shooting - even while not efficient, currently - can improve an offense
does it improve it enough to justify $25M additional is the question
Apparently Hawks are talking to Wizards about trading Trae for expiring contracts. That would set them up with $46-$50 million in cap space going into the off-season, enough to take in a max contract. My best guess as to why they want to do that is to try and get Austin Reaves. It could also be though that they want to trade for Davis but want to make sure they've got Trae off their books first.
It makes no sense at all for us to trade expiring contracts to Atlanta in order to get back Trae and his $49 million player option. There are two ways I would do this deal.
One way would be to get Trae to renegotiate and extend. If he would agree to a deal that started at $38 next year with 8% raises that would be fair. I would still want Atlanta to take Tre Jones too. If that deal happened we would still have over $40 million of cap space for the off season.
The other way I would do the deal would be to offer Tre, Pat and an expiring, Huerter maybe. If Young is intent on exercising his $49m option, this would leave us $47 million of space and no Pat. Win/win.
I'm not sure why we would want to trade Giddey at this point. He's a young player on a very good contract that is still getting better. I would see Trae and Josh sharing the playmaking, and Trae adding more shooting which we really need.
I'm not sure I see a world where Trae and Giddey make sense together. They both need the ball in their hands to be effective and they both aren't good defenders (yes, I know you'll say Giddey isn't that bad of a defender, but he is when it actually matters - the postseason).
The only way I see bringing in Trae as making any sense is if Giddey is traded elsewhere. And to be fair, like you say, Giddey is on a good contract. It's possible the Bulls could get something decent in return for him.
Do I think Trae at nearly $50 million is worth more than Giddey at $25? Absolutely not. Could I be talked into it if other moves are made like yfbb suggested? Maybe. But then again, I can't see AK making multiple moves. If he brings in Trae he's going to call it quits there and brag about the big move he made and the team will continue to suck.
I know you are clinging to the thought that Giddey would be exposed on defense in the playoffs. To me that is ridiculous but I know you are not the only one who thinks that.
I had the unfortunate experience of being at Giddey's last game, against the Wolves. Giddey was matched up against Jaden McDaniels. Finch had the idea to have McDaniels go after Giddey to start the game. He made the first shot on a turn around jumper and missed the next five, all difficult and contested shots. Wolves changed their strategy after that.
Josh does need to keep improving on the defensive end. He needs to get stronger and more physical. He's also a bit soft on his close-outs. But he's 6'8", sees the court well and is good with his rotations. Most advanced metrics rate him as an average defender, which is what he looks like to me.
"I know you are clinging to the thought that Giddey would be exposed on defense in the playoffs. To me that is ridiculous but I know you are not the only one who thinks that."
I'm clinging to the facts that Josh Giddey's defense has been exposed in every postseason game he's played, yes.
I would love for Giddey to prove me wrong in the postseason. I fully admit that I didn't think Giddey's finish to the 24-25 season was sustainable and it's clear that it is. I'll also happily admit it if he can prove me wrong on his postseason defense.
But so far every single team that has intentionally gone after him with their best players (i.e. not Jaden McDaniels) has absolutely smoked him. It's not a matter of effort or awareness. I agree with you that Giddey does try on defense and he's smart enough to put himself in good positions. The problem is his athleticism. When an athletic guard/forward goes at him, he just can't keep up.
I think a lot of the same things can be said of Vooch. He's smart and knows how to position himself on defense. That's why he gets a lot of deflections and even blocks more shots than you'd think when you see how cemented his feet are to the ground. But when teams really go at Vooch, he just can't hold up due to his lack of athleticism.
I think it's simply untenable defensively to have Giddey with Young
I do agree that part of any Trae trade would be a renegotiation and extension. Longer term but less on 2026-27 payroll. Same with Anthony Davis.
and yes my crazy idea involved moving Pat Williams. That will cost the Bulls a pick. Doing so in a much much larger deal doesn't make it look like that though. The Hawks (or Mavs in my example) can lie and say the pick is for their star player they traded
I'm thinking the same thing regarding Pat and the pick. Trae's defense alongside any other four players may be untenable, I don't know. He's pretty bad, and hard to even scheme around.
Hawks now after this trade project to have $30M in cap space. So now competing with the Bulls for free agents with a better foundation and asset base
I think the only point in bringing him in would be with the hope that you can lure another fairly big name in after, like yfbb is suggesting. Do I think AK can do that? Absolutely not.
Anyone having faith Ak can pull off multiple positive moves is in dreamland. And players aren't chomping at the bit to play with Trae Young. I dont think he is a guy that is going to attract ppl to want to join the Bulls.
I just never bought into the hype with him. He had one postseason run and has been whatever since then. He has special talents but he has to be one of your 2 best players to make sense but he ain't good enough to justify that role in the pecking order
i can't think of a bigger flopping chucker, one of the worst players in the league to watch, I can't understand why anyone would want to have him
IF he can play at the 21/22 level again, it might make sense.
But I see no reason to think that's gonna happen.
Right now, he's another borderline all star being paid like an MVP candidate and we saw how well that worked with Zach.
A hard NO.
Trae traded to the Wizards for CJ McCollum and Corey Kispert. Not a very big haul.
No picks! Known as a Karnisovas
Did the Bulls get more back in the LaVine trade?
About even. They got a pick but took on more long term money. But that's what I want them to do so yes the LaVine trade was alright
man how far CJ mcollum has fallen since his POR days
Small guard after age 30
That deal went down quick. Is Atlanta's next move to trade for Davis? Or do they wait for Giannis? Or are they done?
Hawks reddit is in shambles over the paltry return on their "franchise player."
Someday, millions of years after the sun burns out, NBA fans are going to realize that the contract doesn't mean anything other than some jackass GM offered it because he didn't know what else to do.
Losing players should be cheap and as far as basketball goes the direct evidence suggests that Trae Young is a loser.
In my view it's analogous to the way Zach Lavine has been stealing money for his entire career. If you're paying guys like Trae or Zach based on the premise that they help you win games you're a mark.
Fans on the Athletic are mostly happy to see him go, and think Hawks made a good trade.
It is not fait accompli that Bulls make the play-in. Hawks lessened upside but McCollum and Kispert are playing and Trae wasn't. Especially if they get more from Porzingis (or trade him for AD) they'll stay ahead.
And the Bucks are a half game behind Chicago and appear to have buy mindset as well
Fanduel has the odd as +110 rightnow.
If the Hawks aren't able to swing a deal for AD, I'd like to see this Classic Karnisovas swap go down.
To Hawks: Coby and Vooch
To Bulls: Porzingis and Newell
Assuming Porzingis doesn't fully snap back to form, the Hawks stabilize their front court, and I can actually see Vooch being a solid fit. Coby fits pretty well there, too, and if things work well, the Hawks could have the inside track to re-sign him next year (and they’d be able to go over the cap to do so).
Bulls get a glimpse of what Giddey would look like paired with a stretch big that can actually protect the rim. Best case scenario, things work well and they can re-sign him on a reasonable deal. If not, then he's expiring. In lieu of a draft pick, Newell was just drafted so you’d get most of his rookie deal. I thought he looked pretty good when he got some time against the Bulls earlier this year.
The idea of Hawks wanting Coby is interesting. You got to wonder what they are planning to do at point guard. I've heard they want to give Daniels a look as playmaker. Right now they've got McCollum to also fill in as lead guard but he's not a long-term solution for them. He does add shooting though for the rest of this year, as does Kispert.
I would think Atlanta's #1 focus right now is whether they can get Anthony Davis. They may need to include Newell in an AD trade.
I would say that Coby could make a lot of sense for them for next year. Right now Hawks are set up to have $30 million of cap space this off season and could be interested in making him an offer.
However, for this year it seems to me they already have good options for back court shooting. Unless they see Coby as a point guard option for them, I don't see them as a player for Coby right now.
Think about this:
Since 2020, Trae Young has made four all-star appearances and took the Hawks to the conference finals. They just traded him for an expiring contract and an average role player.
Nikola Vucevic has made zero all-star appearances since being traded to the Bulls, with zero playoff series wins and a bunch of play-in losses. The Bulls front office is calling him in the summer to let him know that all trade rumors are false because they really value him.
big difference: after Atlanta went to the play-in tournament a couple times they fired the front office
An important difference is that Vuc makes less than half what Trae makes. You expect a different level of performance from a $21M/yr player compared to a $46M/yr player.
FWIW, Vuc is still overvalued (and overpaid) by AK, but that's a different matter.
Yeah, I know it’s not an apples-to-apples comparison.
My point was just that a player who’s actually accomplished some things over the past few years was traded for close to nothing, because their (new) front office acknowledged his faults and recognized it’s time to move on. But AK is refusing to move on from Vuc for no good reason at all.
Vuc is a second/third tier player and paid like it. Trae is paid like a top tier player.
At $46M/yr, Trae is more comparable to Zach at $45M (or whatever). And yes, Zach looks terrible in comparison. AK moved on from Zach (far too late, but he did).
I agree we should move on from Vuc, but at $21M Vuc is a smaller piece of the puzzle. More of the team's failure to make the playoffs or have any notable success lays at the feet of Zach & AK for not replacing Lonzo soon enough.
This may be a hot take, but with the murmurings about the Bulls having interest in Zion, I think they should go for it if they can get him for expirings like the Wizards were able to do with Trae. I have a feeling New Orleans may not be willing to dump him for only expirings and I don't trust AK to not overpay, but if there were a reality where both of those things were possible, I think I'd be fine taking that gamble.
When healthy, Zion is absolutely worth his contract. His contract also has a lot of clauses about his weight and his health, which are the two big question marks looming over him. So if he ends up not meeting those, the Bulls can basically just dump him and end up back in the same place they currently are.
I don't know, I'm probably just being delusional.
I'd be interested for the reasons you state.
are there any murmurings though?
Just according to Brett Siegel. I'm not sure how trustworthy he actually is though.
https://clutchpoints.com/nba/nba-stories/nba-rumors-zion-williamson-trade-smoke-billowing-bulls
ah... apologies to his colleague Jay but no I don't consider him legit
Siegel also said the Bulls would be the biggest sellers https://www.bleachernation.com/bulls/2026/01/05/bulls-big-sellers-in-east/
While this probably indicates he's saying whatever he can to get clicks, it's also totally possible that AK was indicating he'd be a major seller only a few weeks ago and has since done a complete 180. 😂😂
That was Kirshenbaum, saying the same crap. Essengue doesn't count as a real draft pick because Bulls had that pick some time prior. AK gave up too much for Vuc 5 years ago. Yeah ok.
He thinks we can get a 1st for an expiring Ayo? Text AK and let him know what team that would be, please.
I'm of the same thought. Zion is under contract till 2028 and it's not like he's getting the player max, so he can fit the bulls timeline. You can also get him (well, maybe not our front office) without losing a pick or buzelis.
A core of giddey, buzelis, and zion sounds bad defensively but there's potential there on offense and it wouldn't break the proverbial bank.
Zion if healthy is a superstar level talent, and his injuries aren't anything irreparable. And he's 25. It kind of fits.
A fun moonshot would be to make a play for Porzingis like I mentioned before and then also Zion, and see what happens. High ceiling and low floor. I feel like Giddey / Okoro or Ayo / Buzelis / Zion / Porzingis would at the very least be interesting.
I clearly don't expect that aggressive set of moves out of AKME, but dare to dream...
Porzingis will be a free agent so we could just sign him if that's the guy we want.
But he's also probably available for expiring contracts, so the Bulls could just trade away some expirings and have more control over re-signing him in the summer if things worked out over the remainder of this season.
Edit: Not saying they necessarily should do that. It just seems like if they were to go after KP, it would make more sense to do it by the deadline than over the summer.
Yeah, Zion can play when he's healthy. But he'd use up $42 mil of our cap space and we'd still need a rim protector. I think we'd be better off waiting to see if the Pels will waive him, and if so then make him a lower offer in free agency.
They've needed a rim protector since Joakim was here. I have to conclude that is simply not on the radar for this management group or coaching staff. A big who can play defense is not important to them. They don't consider that an important aspect of winning NBA games. I think if the Bulls had a center like that Billy would have him buried so far down the bench you'd forget what he looks like.