Well hopefully its 5,240,000. The max the article says they can recieve because we recieved 2,000,000 from the Kings already. Dont know what second round picks typically go for though.
Trade second round pick for multiple future second round picks or trade second round pick for Michael's trust fund? That's an easy decision for ol' Jerry.
Why draft a project player when you're just going to run it back. This franchise is absolutely insufferable. No plan, no idea what they are doing. Just lining Jerry's pockets and taking their pats on the head from him.
As a Cubs fan, the schadenfreude of watching the White Sox being the most pathetic franchise in baseball is wonderful. I couldn't imagine this stupid old POS ruining two of my favorite teams.
On a side note, thanks for all the great content over the years, I've lurked here forever and always enjoyed reading. This franchise deserves no credit for anything post-Jordan and BlogaBull is one of the few places that doesn't consistently suck them off.
I think you're right, and I could see the bottom falling out more this year. I could see viewership continuing to drop with the loss of OTA. I think die hard fans are getting exhausted, and with increasing prices, I could see ticket prices continuing to fall.
You never know - I think Bulls sales/marketing is pretty strong, so they seem to find ways to keep attendance up much more than I'd expect.
if they do really believe their own fart sniffing and run this same team back, they will have a worse year than last. Last year had LaVine and Vuc playing great, and then the March nonsense not only in individual performances but clutch Ws needed to even make the play-in
No way Noa is going to be ready next year to be a plus player. Drafting a project player who isn't going to play immediately is fine cause they wouldn't contribute immediately anyways.
It'd be weirder if they brought everyone back but also drafted a 21 year old that will get squeezed for minutes. If they had drafted Coward and then couldn't find minutes for him that would be bad.
they like Vuc and Lonzo, and because they like them more than other teams is why they won't be traded. If AK believed in league valuation Vuc would be gone for two second rounders already. They had a deal on the table for Lonzo where they'd get a first round pick!
they value the leadership or whatever, it's ridiculous but why trades aren't happening
Remember when they couldnt get a Vuc deal done last season and then they said that those discussions will be helpful when they try again this season? Whaaa?!
I'm strangely optimistic today so I will just say it feels like real progress that AKME has realized it's a good idea to look for guys who are not so atrocious defensively that it cancels out anything and everything they might do on the other end. Congrats to these two on learning that it's not football and you can't sub out on changes of possession.
But look at their stats, Jaina! Giddey nearly averaged a triple double to finish the season and Caruso barely played. Clearly the Bulls won that trade!
Wait, did he actually say they want players who can't be hunted? Like those were his exact words? Did he watch the play-in where Giddey was relentlessly hunted nearly the whole game?
On a more positive note, I do like the Essengue pick. CMB was my top pick, but Essengue was second. There's obviously a significant chance he doesn't develop since he's playing for a team that is known for poor development, but these are still the types of players this team needs to go after.
It's pretty well known that you and I have very different views of Giddey and that's totally fine. Giddey is - or can be - a decent defender due to his size, good hands, and good court awareness, but that's mostly during the regular season when teams don't really gameplan to go at one weak link like they do in the playoffs.
Giddey was played off the floor in the playoffs with OKC because their opponents were specifically targeting him and it was very effective. Teams were doing the same early in this season when teams are trying harder to win, and then Miami did it in the play-in (again when teams are trying to win) to great effect.
Giddey's lack of athleticism will always make him a huge target on defense. There's only so much he can do to make up for that. Now if the Bulls do what Indiana does and runs Giddey out there with four defensive studs, I won't be nearly as worried about his defense. The problem is, that's not currently how the team is constructed and I don't exactly trust AK to assemble a team built like that.
That's basically the foundation of my views on Giddey. It's not that I think he's a bad player. He just has glaring weaknesses that require his teammates to make up for him. It's not impossible to do that, but it starts you from a disadvantage and makes it more difficult to succeed. Am I fine taking a risk on that at $20-25 million a year for three years? Sure. Am I fine taking that same risk at $30+ million for five? Not really.
Giddey was clearly not the weak link on the Bulls defense last year, Coby was. Dredging up stuff from two seasons ago to try and make a point is pretty much irrelevant now.
First of all, your comment that Miami was targeting Giddey in the play in game is interesting. I did not notice that when I watched the game, and I didn't hear anybody talking about that afterwards, until you mentioned it a few days ago. I am a bit skeptical but I will try to re-watch the game.
You said Miami targeted Giddey because he was the weak link. But he wasn't, Coby was. I don't understand what Coby's contract status has to do with that. If Miami wanted to target the Bulls weak link, they would have targeted Coby. Again. I am skeptical that Miami actually did target Giddey, but if they did it would have been for other reasons.
I remember reading a lot about Miami targeting Giddey after that game. Maybe we just read different Bulls sites.
Anyway, teams target Giddey more than Coby because Giddey isn't as athletic as Coby. Coby is an overall worse defender because he's not a great on-ball defender and he's a bad help defender. Giddey is a pretty bad on-ball defender but makes up for that some by being a decent help defender.
Over the course of the regular season where teams don't spend as much time targeting individual defenders, Giddey proves to be a better defender than Coby due to the fact that he's a decent help defender.
But in games that matter, teams will always attack the weak link. And when I say weak link, I'm specifically talking about the worst on-ball defender. For the Bulls, that's Giddey.
That doesn't mean he's their worst defender over the course of the season, but he is who teams target when games matter. Again, this was very evident in the OKC series last year (still haven't told me why that data is no longer relevant), and also at the beginning of this year when Billy kept having to bench Giddey at the end of close games because teams would start attacking him.
If the idea is to really "not skip steps" the Bulls are clearly farther than 18 months away from real contention. They still lack a top 10/15 player in the league and Matas and Noa are not anywhere close to that. They can't possibly think that's Giddey either.
If the idea is that they are going to go big in 2026, well sure - that's a valid approach. But that also contradicts the "not skip steps" mantra.
I really have no idea what their strategy is. To be fair, no GM is really revealing this stuff ahead of time. What really matters what they do - which for the Bulls is, very little and mediocre foe the little they do.
Yeah, I remember everyone kind of being okay with AKME's secrecy at first because they made all these big moves and everyone was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. But that has quickly worn away and now everyone realizes AKME's secrecy is due to them really not having a plan and not knowing how to do their jobs effectively.
The only steps they're aware of are securing a bag and keeping their jobs while not doing anything. I don't buy "steps" as a concept in the NBA anymore. There are no steps in putting in a competent front office and coaching staff then upgrading the on-court talent, which catapulted the Pistons from 14 wins to 44 in one season. There are no steps to winning a draft lottery and getting Wemby or to having Luka fall in your lap. The Celtics were buried in the second apron and lost their superstar for a year. In a couple weeks they've moved close to getting out of the tax entirely and will still have a good team next year. There's only 5 players on the court at a time and only 8 players who really matter on an NBA team. It's not supposed to be like turning an aircraft carrier around. There's just competence and it's in such short supply, especially on the Bulls.
To be honest, I think their strategy is pretty straight forward. I think they’ve said what they want, and their actions are showing they’re going after that.
- roster continuity: 1 pick, #55 won’t affect the roster in any way shape or form, they will re-sign Giddey
- long athletes; I’m sure they see Vucevic as some sort of “we have to have a big bully to back up these skinny guys” player
- overvalue their own players
- count on internal development to give them a “contending team”
They don’t need to amass assets because they’re never going to make a big move. They see Wendell being good and Wagner being good and Markkanen, and they think: “we tried to skip steps, and it clearly didn’t work.”
I think a lot of people do a lot of wish-casting and telling themselves “This can’t possibly work, so how can it be their goal?”
I think done “correctly,” there’s a small chance that it works. But I also don’t think they’ve done it the right way because Josh Giddey is not Tyrese Halliburton, and Buzelis and Essengue or nowhere near Siakam and Toppin and Nesmith and Nembhard. Let alone having a Myles Turner. Though I’m confident they think they’re only a good, young center away from being a perennial contender in 3-4 years. (Turner was drafted 11th which is exactly the area in which they like to draft every year!!!)
I’ve realized that a very funny result of the Bulls being irrelevant for years is that the national media has difficulty properly analyzing them, because they don’t pay attention to them.
I watched Bill Simmons’ draft recap. He and J. Kyle Mann were not big fans of the Essengue pick for reasons that made no sense. Bill thought the Bulls should have drafted Queen, which is not logical because his ceiling might be Vucevic 2.0 with even worse rim protection. J. Kyle Mann seemed to worry that the Bulls were going to ask him to do too much right away, which is just not really something you need to worry about on a Billy Donovan team.
There was another funny moment where Simmons randomly knocked Cedric Coward and J. Kyle Mann asked him to provide his reasons for disliking him. Bill kind of sighed and looked to the side, which was a classic “Crap, I was hoping to not get follow-up questions about this” move. And then his reasons made it clear he knew very little about him.
Trey on No Dunks, who definitely has a better handle on the Bulls, suggested the Bulls should have taken the Pelicans trade to trade down and get next years pick as well. Another case of AK missing a trick.
I probably shouldn't have said "I don't think anyone expected Newell to drop that far" and instead should have said "the general consensus was that Newell wouldn't drop that far" since there will always be outliers.
The downgrade is really irrelevant when talking about a shot at a high pick in next season's loaded draft. Essengue doesnt project to be some hall of famer so who cares when you might be talking about one of the top guys coming out in 2026? And the Bulls should have had 2 picks this draft anyway since Memphis was willing to trade its pick for Ball.
yeah taking that trade down would have been ideal. I doubt though that Dumars was offering an unprotected first and the 23 for the pic. I think Atlanta was able to negotiate that.
I've been waiting for an explanation of why the Bulls didnt do this deal and youve now provided it-- the Bulls are incapable of negotiating good deals.
Yeah I feel like Simmons and Mann didn't have a good understanding or even really cared to take a look at Essengue. They kind of just put him in the raw/skinny and foreigner camp. I think there is more to his game than a lot of the previous foreign wings drafted.
After watching some scouting videos (admittedly not many), I think the thing that stands out to me the most is Essengue's feel for the game. He seems to make the right reads on both ends of the floor, which I think is especially impressive for someone who has only been playing basketball for five years.
That's not to say he'll become a star or anything, but I do feel like players with good basketball IQ/good feel for the game have higher floors because they just understand how to make an impact.
Yeah, I was trying to find them too, but I'm not on social media. Figured if it wasn't enough for someone to write an article about, it probably wasn't very real.
Plus, I don't even know how the Bulls would get Beal. I think it hinged on Vooch, Pat, and whatever other contracts would be needed to match Beal's salary, but now that Phoenix has two new centers, I don't see why they would take Vooch.
PHX can't send out multiple players as they're over second apron
Hypothetically I think they could do two trades with one player apiece? Or dump Nick Richards to a third team assuming they are taking one Bulls center back
Only 2026 salary for Suns to take us Pat+Smith, and Beal is then $30M additional in dead money for that year. Don't think they even have enough picks to make that palatable
Also I don't think the Williams trade is completed yet, so they could just redirect him.
Would it be worth that for Maluach instead of Williams I'm not as high on him as a lot of people seem to be, but 1 high pick is better than lots of late ones probably.
I think bringing back Beal and Maluach would actually be an interesting move. Would much rather take the swing on Maluach (who I know you don't love). Probably makes them worse for next year, with a strong draft to follow. Then maaaaybe you can use Beal's salary slot in his expiring year to bring back a disgruntled star who wants a change of scenery.
I just read the Ringer’s draft grade for this the Bulls. They gave the pick a B-, but they said the Bulls are now in full rebuild mode. Did I miss a whole bunch of trades the Bulls made yesterday? The Bulls are going to run back almost the exact same team that made the playin last season.
A lot of Bulls fans do this too. They think that the front office has some secret plan to get better, but they just do nothing again and again. I don’t know if AKME is just lazy or they just don’t want to get burned again like they did with the Vuc trade. It’s hilarious that the Bulls are focused on their 15-5 record and not the 2-9 record they had right before it. IIRC, the Bulls actually gained a game in the play-in standings during that period because how awful the rest of the east was.
Basically all those moves are sideways moves. Dumping Williams to get Kuminga isn't really going to do much for your team. Does Vooch even have a trade market? Seems like bulls will simply take back salary in that trade. There is also no reason to shop Coby. I much rather keep Coby and try to resign him than pay Giddy 25-30 million a year.
Kuminga is much better than Williams, whose BBIQ fuel gage is on empty. Coby is already 25. I like him a lot, he's a great scorer, but his ceiling is Ben Gordon. Paying $40m to a guy with 6th man of the year skills is not the way we should go. Yes, Vuc has value, he's always had value, the question is how much.
Kuminga doesn't have a great BBIQ either. I can talk myself into Kuminga bc he is a freak athletic and has shown flashes. But he reminds me of Wiggins who is not really a player you should be paying top money to if you hope to win.
As for White, I agree 40m a year would be crazy to pay White. But I dont think that's his market. His market is more Jordan Clarkson type money (think 20 million a year max, maybe 25).
As for Vuc, I doubt we get an actual useful/good asset for him. I dont think he is worth a first round pick. He might be worth a player like Clint Capella (another older slightly washed center). Maybe you can get a player like Knecht and another contract from the Lakers. I dont think you get much more than that.
Yeah, I wish we could keep Coby for $25m but I don't think it will happen. You might be right about Vuc, but if we get a couple of 2nds for him, we can sell them to the Lakers for $5 mil apiece.
My thoughts on noa is that hes just the player Akme have been drafting, projects where there's potential but no real notable skills. To have faith in his success is based on two things - A) either he can self develop, B)you have faith the bulls can develop.
I have no faith in the bulls so it's all on noa....and I feel like he needs a lot of work .
I also want to say as someone who spends way too much time on bulls reddit these days...I miss the insights offered by this community. Bulls fans outside, especially in reddit....man... Now I know why Jerry reinsdorf can do what he wants
I've gone on there a few times lately, and there are some stone dumb fuckers there. Plenty of good posters too, but lots of just weird responses.
Maybe I'm wrong, but Noa has huge potential to me in a way that Pat and Terry obviously didn't. Physically, he seems an order of magnitude better than those guys. In terms of skills and competition, he's right there with Matas. Every report I've seen indicates that he's got a pretty high motor.
My thought is that he's just bigger than Terry or Phillips, not necessarily better. He has athletic potential, but he's not like an Uber elite athlete. His game has flashes but he isn't good enough at anything to suggest he has a skill. He shows room for growth and he's super young, but his development will rely heavily on what he's coached and asked to do by the bulls.
Like how does one get a giannis? I think first giannis was just an Uber athlete from day 1. Skinny sure, but lanky and explosive from day 1. But also kidd and the bucks made him play pg on a bad roster. Let him learn the skills on the fly, a big part Giannis is so special is that as he got bigger and stronger he was able to take the ball and fly down the court and make plays when defenses packed the paint.
Are the bulls smart enough to do that. Can they afford to with so many other players that need development and attention. And if they can't then why draft a kid like this?
There's way too many variables here with noa and I guess we have to wait and see, but even beringer to me would have been better because at the very least you knew you were getting a rim runner and can help him excel at that.
I hope I'm wrong and noa flourishes…but I feel like we have seen this story with this team and this front office and buzelis is just the exception.
OK, fair enough. At this point he is a project. Our history with projects is not great, so we all have a right to be skeptical.
I do think by taking Essengue, instead of trading the pick, it shows that AK likes the guy a lot, since he committed to him when he had other options.
It also shows us something about his rebuilding plan, which is also good to see. This pick seems consistent with the Buzelis pick. We have a trend developing.
What does Beringer offer at "rim running" that Essengue doesn't? He's got 1 inch of standing reach (9'3" vs. 9'2"). The big thing to me is that "rim running" itself is one of those things that sounds like a compliment but really is saying "this guy has no skill" but running basket to basket.
Anyway, I think Essengue's got skills to do more than just rim run. But he seems to be good at cutting and have pretty good hands, and he's super fast.
I think what I really disagree with is that you are crediting a lot of Giannis' development to someone other than Giannis. I don't think a few months of playing in any respect plays much of a part in comparison to his natural talent and years of working at it.
What I think is Ball Don't Lie. It's actually very rare that teams are leaving anything on the table with guys as far as I can tell. If the guy can play, they're gonna play him. Fans like to think otherwise, and imagine the right "development" can get blood from a stone, but it's just not so.
That doesn't mean that teams shouldn't appropriately play guys and shouldn't bother making resources (ahem Peter Patton) available to them and make programs to improve them. They should, and all that stuff helps. But mostly, it's talent and determination on the part of a player.
If you have a talented and determined player, a terrible situation might slightly and temporarily hold him back. If you have a mediocre player, a good "developmental situation" ain't gonna help.
See table below, but Berringer measured better in all things to do with size at the combine and had more success in his league at blocking shots compared to noa. Rim running to me is being a shot blocker on the defensive end and a finisher in transition on the other end.
Right, but I just don't care about having a center like that very much. I'm never gonna pass up a guy with big-time potential for a "rim runner".
Reportedly Essengue at the BWB combine last year had a 35.5 Max Vert FWIW.
My bigger point is that Essengue is a totally different type of player with a lot more potential utility, but, if you're dialing in on the particular thing that Beringer is good at, then Essengue is potentially useful in that role too because he's almost as long and significantly more athletic.
It's just that he's not been used in that role because, crucially, he's got additional skills that make him more interesting to do a bunch of things that Beringer can't. Which, again, is why you want Essengue and not Beringer.
I'm really just saying that to me both Berringer and noa are similar prospects, very young, athletic bigs...but Berringer is more defined in his projection. Maybe you see that noa could be more , but it's so theoretical since in his current state he has nothing but his mobility.
Berringer may be nothing more than a poor man's Daniel gafford or javale mcgee, and while that may not be as exciting as a pascal siakim 2.0 projection, it feels more likely.
I get your point that taking a chance on a guy who could be special is better than drafting a guy who likely fits a role that's not uncommon in the NBA... especially at 12....but my lack of trust in this org makes me fear it's just a wasted draft pick.
Athletic bigs who can block shots and run the court are just like 3 and D guys, they may not be stars but every team wants one on their roster. For a bulls team lacking assets, I think that's more important than another project that they won't be able to develop.
I think at this point it's moot to argue these semantics though...noa is a bull and we will see what he becomes soon enough
I’d say he’s a step below Buzelis in skills. He doesn’t have the handle or shot making abilities that Buzelis did coming into the draft. He’s also a little bigger.
I think the Platonic versions of both are perfect complementaries at SF and PF. Buzelis will have a litte more on ball creativity while Essengue won’t need that as a PF, but could have enough to succeed.
I saw some comps for Buzelis and Essengue to be Franz Wagner and Pascal Siakam, respectively. I think there is a loooong way to go for both, but that’s kind of how I’m seeing them as “if they reach their 98th %ile outcome.”
if Matas could be Wagner with a functional 3 and Essengue could be even a middle class Siakam, i'd be happy.
not sure either of them can play 3 fulltime. Both are too upright to guard wings and neither have the ball skills....Matas could get there as far as handle/shot but not sure if he has the lateral quickness to guard 3s
Essengue doesn't look as explosive and jumpy as Matas from what I see, but he might be quick enough to keep up with 1-4. I dunno, he looks really smooth to me in the playoff footage at least.
NEW POST! https://www.blogabull.com/p/the-bulls-dont-have-a-philosophy
updated the post: minutes after publishing news broke the Bulls traded down from #45 to #55 and gained...cash
Wut?
https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2025/6/26/24456453/lakers-trade-2025-nba-draft-bulls-second-round-pick
They have to sell picks to pay for their raises? We must be taking someone at 55 that nobody has heard of.
Is there a way to find out how much cash and what can the team do with it?
it does typically get reported eventually. Sending out cash hard-caps teams at the 2nd apron
Last year the Bulls sent out zero Cash and received $2M from Kings in the DeRozan S&T https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2024/11/cash-sent-received-in-nba-trades-for-2024-25.html
the year prior no cash sent or received
Thanks
Well hopefully its 5,240,000. The max the article says they can recieve because we recieved 2,000,000 from the Kings already. Dont know what second round picks typically go for though.
Yes good point, NBA fiscal year doesn't re-set until 7/1
Trade second round pick for multiple future second round picks or trade second round pick for Michael's trust fund? That's an easy decision for ol' Jerry.
Nets trading the No. 36 pick to the Phoenix Suns for two future second-round picks
What a joke. They make me feel stupid for caring and rooting for the team. At least I don't give them any of my money...
Also, Eversley went on 670TheScore and was delusional again, citing the 15-5 stretch run and downplaying the play-in result as "a bitter loss"
and said everyone who played in that game will be back, including Vuc! Also Zach Collins was a nice addition.
Why draft a project player when you're just going to run it back. This franchise is absolutely insufferable. No plan, no idea what they are doing. Just lining Jerry's pockets and taking their pats on the head from him.
and Jerry's too checked out to realize that they could be lining his pockets even moreso if they actually made the playoffs or gave fans any hope
As a Cubs fan, the schadenfreude of watching the White Sox being the most pathetic franchise in baseball is wonderful. I couldn't imagine this stupid old POS ruining two of my favorite teams.
On a side note, thanks for all the great content over the years, I've lurked here forever and always enjoyed reading. This franchise deserves no credit for anything post-Jordan and BlogaBull is one of the few places that doesn't consistently suck them off.
BaB: where only Nate Robinson gets consistently sucked off.
I think you're right, and I could see the bottom falling out more this year. I could see viewership continuing to drop with the loss of OTA. I think die hard fans are getting exhausted, and with increasing prices, I could see ticket prices continuing to fall.
You never know - I think Bulls sales/marketing is pretty strong, so they seem to find ways to keep attendance up much more than I'd expect.
if they do really believe their own fart sniffing and run this same team back, they will have a worse year than last. Last year had LaVine and Vuc playing great, and then the March nonsense not only in individual performances but clutch Ws needed to even make the play-in
Vuc was not playing great. He was playing great offensively, but terribly on defense. His on/off was one of the worst on the team.
true, now imagine a year older and not hitting threes
No way Noa is going to be ready next year to be a plus player. Drafting a project player who isn't going to play immediately is fine cause they wouldn't contribute immediately anyways.
It'd be weirder if they brought everyone back but also drafted a 21 year old that will get squeezed for minutes. If they had drafted Coward and then couldn't find minutes for him that would be bad.
Reports are they are shopping Vuc and several others
yeah, 'laying groundwork' for years
they like Vuc and Lonzo, and because they like them more than other teams is why they won't be traded. If AK believed in league valuation Vuc would be gone for two second rounders already. They had a deal on the table for Lonzo where they'd get a first round pick!
they value the leadership or whatever, it's ridiculous but why trades aren't happening
Yeah i was just refuting what the score was saying, but I hear ya... they will monitor the market and stand pat. Also I don't know who would take PAt
it's not what the Score was saying, it was Marc Eversley saying it on The Score
Gotcha, misread that. Thanks
Remember when they couldnt get a Vuc deal done last season and then they said that those discussions will be helpful when they try again this season? Whaaa?!
I'm strangely optimistic today so I will just say it feels like real progress that AKME has realized it's a good idea to look for guys who are not so atrocious defensively that it cancels out anything and everything they might do on the other end. Congrats to these two on learning that it's not football and you can't sub out on changes of possession.
yet they're going to pay Josh Giddey >$30M next week
Not a fan of Giddy or the trade to aquire him.
it's still unbelievable that they did not get a single pick.
But look at their stats, Jaina! Giddey nearly averaged a triple double to finish the season and Caruso barely played. Clearly the Bulls won that trade!
Oh wait, this isn't Reddit...
Wait, did he actually say they want players who can't be hunted? Like those were his exact words? Did he watch the play-in where Giddey was relentlessly hunted nearly the whole game?
On a more positive note, I do like the Essengue pick. CMB was my top pick, but Essengue was second. There's obviously a significant chance he doesn't develop since he's playing for a team that is known for poor development, but these are still the types of players this team needs to go after.
Yeah, I think most of watched the play-in game, but nobody agrees with your unique take on it.
Giddey's defense EPM last year was in the 56th percentile, ahead of Haliburton.
I agree with you about Essengue. He is young, very athletic, runs well and has a lot of potential.
Giddey sucks defensively, that's apparent from watching the games - Billy Donovan agreed for much of the season - versus single season EPM
maybe he will be motivated by a huge contract extension like they thought Patrick Williams would be
Says a guy who bragged that he didn't watch the games haha.
*games that didn't matter
It's pretty well known that you and I have very different views of Giddey and that's totally fine. Giddey is - or can be - a decent defender due to his size, good hands, and good court awareness, but that's mostly during the regular season when teams don't really gameplan to go at one weak link like they do in the playoffs.
Giddey was played off the floor in the playoffs with OKC because their opponents were specifically targeting him and it was very effective. Teams were doing the same early in this season when teams are trying harder to win, and then Miami did it in the play-in (again when teams are trying to win) to great effect.
Giddey's lack of athleticism will always make him a huge target on defense. There's only so much he can do to make up for that. Now if the Bulls do what Indiana does and runs Giddey out there with four defensive studs, I won't be nearly as worried about his defense. The problem is, that's not currently how the team is constructed and I don't exactly trust AK to assemble a team built like that.
That's basically the foundation of my views on Giddey. It's not that I think he's a bad player. He just has glaring weaknesses that require his teammates to make up for him. It's not impossible to do that, but it starts you from a disadvantage and makes it more difficult to succeed. Am I fine taking a risk on that at $20-25 million a year for three years? Sure. Am I fine taking that same risk at $30+ million for five? Not really.
Giddey was clearly not the weak link on the Bulls defense last year, Coby was. Dredging up stuff from two seasons ago to try and make a point is pretty much irrelevant now.
Coby is a worse defender than Giddey, yes. Coby isn't being re-signed this summer.
"Dredging up stuff from two seasons ago to try and make a point is pretty much irrelevant now."
So what is the cutoff for someone's playing history before it's irrelevant?
First of all, your comment that Miami was targeting Giddey in the play in game is interesting. I did not notice that when I watched the game, and I didn't hear anybody talking about that afterwards, until you mentioned it a few days ago. I am a bit skeptical but I will try to re-watch the game.
You said Miami targeted Giddey because he was the weak link. But he wasn't, Coby was. I don't understand what Coby's contract status has to do with that. If Miami wanted to target the Bulls weak link, they would have targeted Coby. Again. I am skeptical that Miami actually did target Giddey, but if they did it would have been for other reasons.
I remember reading a lot about Miami targeting Giddey after that game. Maybe we just read different Bulls sites.
Anyway, teams target Giddey more than Coby because Giddey isn't as athletic as Coby. Coby is an overall worse defender because he's not a great on-ball defender and he's a bad help defender. Giddey is a pretty bad on-ball defender but makes up for that some by being a decent help defender.
Over the course of the regular season where teams don't spend as much time targeting individual defenders, Giddey proves to be a better defender than Coby due to the fact that he's a decent help defender.
But in games that matter, teams will always attack the weak link. And when I say weak link, I'm specifically talking about the worst on-ball defender. For the Bulls, that's Giddey.
That doesn't mean he's their worst defender over the course of the season, but he is who teams target when games matter. Again, this was very evident in the OKC series last year (still haven't told me why that data is no longer relevant), and also at the beginning of this year when Billy kept having to bench Giddey at the end of close games because teams would start attacking him.
the play-in loss to Miami was 2 months ago
while it's a full active roster, Bulls could select a 2nd rounder and get him on a two-way contract
but at selection #55 now, they will likely just sell it and figure what's five spots where they can just sign an undrafted free agent
I like the pick. Hes gonna be an all-star eventually. Don't get why everyone else is up in arms about it.
All-Star? That'd be super surprising. He feels like a taller Tony Snell.
Ouch.
what single person is up in arms about it, let alone 'everyone else'?
Seems like most the internet disagrees with the pick citing its the same pick as Buzilus last year and wanting them to pick a C.
you need better internet!
Not necessarilly here
If the idea is to really "not skip steps" the Bulls are clearly farther than 18 months away from real contention. They still lack a top 10/15 player in the league and Matas and Noa are not anywhere close to that. They can't possibly think that's Giddey either.
If the idea is that they are going to go big in 2026, well sure - that's a valid approach. But that also contradicts the "not skip steps" mantra.
I really have no idea what their strategy is. To be fair, no GM is really revealing this stuff ahead of time. What really matters what they do - which for the Bulls is, very little and mediocre foe the little they do.
that's the bigger issue, this bullshit secrecy would make more sense if they actually did things correctly
they already screwed over this rebuild in hanging on to everyone too long! the secret has been revealed!
Yeah, I remember everyone kind of being okay with AKME's secrecy at first because they made all these big moves and everyone was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. But that has quickly worn away and now everyone realizes AKME's secrecy is due to them really not having a plan and not knowing how to do their jobs effectively.
The only steps they're aware of are securing a bag and keeping their jobs while not doing anything. I don't buy "steps" as a concept in the NBA anymore. There are no steps in putting in a competent front office and coaching staff then upgrading the on-court talent, which catapulted the Pistons from 14 wins to 44 in one season. There are no steps to winning a draft lottery and getting Wemby or to having Luka fall in your lap. The Celtics were buried in the second apron and lost their superstar for a year. In a couple weeks they've moved close to getting out of the tax entirely and will still have a good team next year. There's only 5 players on the court at a time and only 8 players who really matter on an NBA team. It's not supposed to be like turning an aircraft carrier around. There's just competence and it's in such short supply, especially on the Bulls.
To be honest, I think their strategy is pretty straight forward. I think they’ve said what they want, and their actions are showing they’re going after that.
- roster continuity: 1 pick, #55 won’t affect the roster in any way shape or form, they will re-sign Giddey
- long athletes; I’m sure they see Vucevic as some sort of “we have to have a big bully to back up these skinny guys” player
- overvalue their own players
- count on internal development to give them a “contending team”
They don’t need to amass assets because they’re never going to make a big move. They see Wendell being good and Wagner being good and Markkanen, and they think: “we tried to skip steps, and it clearly didn’t work.”
I think a lot of people do a lot of wish-casting and telling themselves “This can’t possibly work, so how can it be their goal?”
I think done “correctly,” there’s a small chance that it works. But I also don’t think they’ve done it the right way because Josh Giddey is not Tyrese Halliburton, and Buzelis and Essengue or nowhere near Siakam and Toppin and Nesmith and Nembhard. Let alone having a Myles Turner. Though I’m confident they think they’re only a good, young center away from being a perennial contender in 3-4 years. (Turner was drafted 11th which is exactly the area in which they like to draft every year!!!)
Jon Greenberg's column was good, FYI https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6452492/2025/06/26/greenberg-bulls-noa-essengue-nba-draft-pick/?source=emp_shared_article
I’ve realized that a very funny result of the Bulls being irrelevant for years is that the national media has difficulty properly analyzing them, because they don’t pay attention to them.
I watched Bill Simmons’ draft recap. He and J. Kyle Mann were not big fans of the Essengue pick for reasons that made no sense. Bill thought the Bulls should have drafted Queen, which is not logical because his ceiling might be Vucevic 2.0 with even worse rim protection. J. Kyle Mann seemed to worry that the Bulls were going to ask him to do too much right away, which is just not really something you need to worry about on a Billy Donovan team.
There was another funny moment where Simmons randomly knocked Cedric Coward and J. Kyle Mann asked him to provide his reasons for disliking him. Bill kind of sighed and looked to the side, which was a classic “Crap, I was hoping to not get follow-up questions about this” move. And then his reasons made it clear he knew very little about him.
Trey on No Dunks, who definitely has a better handle on the Bulls, suggested the Bulls should have taken the Pelicans trade to trade down and get next years pick as well. Another case of AK missing a trick.
Yep, Ricky O'Donnell did too on the Cash Considerations podcast.
I brought that up in the post
though I think it's fair to ask who you would've taken at 23 then and if that was a slight enough downgrade from Essengue
I think the actual 23 pick Asa Newell could be switchable, effortful center that works great in a running system.
there ya go, I didn't say it was 'hard' to do just fair. Whereas most "well what do you want them to do?!?" questions are not fair.
While I definitely agree, I don't think anyone expected Newell to drop that far. Hindsight is always 20/20.
With that being said, if I was running the Bulls and New Orleans offered me that deal for #12, I absolutely would have taken it.
I saw a few mocks where Newell went in the 20's. Franchilla didn't think much of him. I wasn't surprised he went 23.
I probably shouldn't have said "I don't think anyone expected Newell to drop that far" and instead should have said "the general consensus was that Newell wouldn't drop that far" since there will always be outliers.
The downgrade is really irrelevant when talking about a shot at a high pick in next season's loaded draft. Essengue doesnt project to be some hall of famer so who cares when you might be talking about one of the top guys coming out in 2026? And the Bulls should have had 2 picks this draft anyway since Memphis was willing to trade its pick for Ball.
Dumars here says they called everyone from #9 on down https://x.com/jrkisbad/status/1938349170818986003
Makes sense, why wouldn't they?
yeah taking that trade down would have been ideal. I doubt though that Dumars was offering an unprotected first and the 23 for the pic. I think Atlanta was able to negotiate that.
I've been waiting for an explanation of why the Bulls didnt do this deal and youve now provided it-- the Bulls are incapable of negotiating good deals.
Yeah I feel like Simmons and Mann didn't have a good understanding or even really cared to take a look at Essengue. They kind of just put him in the raw/skinny and foreigner camp. I think there is more to his game than a lot of the previous foreign wings drafted.
It's so painful to hear these well-compensated executives of a billion dollar business simply not understand even the most basic of concepts.
They have no goal, which is obvious in their inability to articulate one, because they don't know the difference between strategies and tactics.
They want everybody working out together.
They want long athletes.
They want to play fast.
They want young and experienced players.
They want financial flexibility.
They want roster continuity.
Check, check, check! We did it! Where is it all going?! Who's to say?!
Then the arrogance to act like something has been accomplished. Miserable.
After watching some scouting videos (admittedly not many), I think the thing that stands out to me the most is Essengue's feel for the game. He seems to make the right reads on both ends of the floor, which I think is especially impressive for someone who has only been playing basketball for five years.
That's not to say he'll become a star or anything, but I do feel like players with good basketball IQ/good feel for the game have higher floors because they just understand how to make an impact.
yeah I felt that way too, like it seemed like his mistakes were more in execution vs decision making in a lot of the clips.
Needs some more strength too but the kid is 18 years old, so not too worried about that.
What to make of Beal rumors?
they don't exist? I have looked into where it's coming from and it's all stock photo Twitter accounts
Yeah, I was trying to find them too, but I'm not on social media. Figured if it wasn't enough for someone to write an article about, it probably wasn't very real.
Plus, I don't even know how the Bulls would get Beal. I think it hinged on Vooch, Pat, and whatever other contracts would be needed to match Beal's salary, but now that Phoenix has two new centers, I don't see why they would take Vooch.
I was reading Beal as a buyout and then signing, yes agree with YFBB it's not reliable sources but had seen at least 2. I'm meh on it
Everything I've read since February indicated the Beal is perfectly happy in Phoenix and isn't waiving his no-trade clause for any reason.
Probably they’re bogus but hypothetical Pat, Vuc and Smith for Beal and Mark Williams works.
Not a fan of Mark Williams but also not a fan of Vuc. We’d be dumping 4 years of Pat for 2 of Beal.
I dunno, I don’t see a lot of upside either way
PHX can't send out multiple players as they're over second apron
Hypothetically I think they could do two trades with one player apiece? Or dump Nick Richards to a third team assuming they are taking one Bulls center back
Only 2026 salary for Suns to take us Pat+Smith, and Beal is then $30M additional in dead money for that year. Don't think they even have enough picks to make that palatable
Make that $20M, but that's still a lot
The deal works as two trades:
1. Pat+Vuc+Smith for Beal
2. Williams into Trade Exception
Also I don't think the Williams trade is completed yet, so they could just redirect him.
Would it be worth that for Maluach instead of Williams I'm not as high on him as a lot of people seem to be, but 1 high pick is better than lots of late ones probably.
I think bringing back Beal and Maluach would actually be an interesting move. Would much rather take the swing on Maluach (who I know you don't love). Probably makes them worse for next year, with a strong draft to follow. Then maaaaybe you can use Beal's salary slot in his expiring year to bring back a disgruntled star who wants a change of scenery.
Maluach would be exciting. No PWill would be a relief. Beal's contract would be a big anchor on our cap sheet though. I think I would need more.
I just read the Ringer’s draft grade for this the Bulls. They gave the pick a B-, but they said the Bulls are now in full rebuild mode. Did I miss a whole bunch of trades the Bulls made yesterday? The Bulls are going to run back almost the exact same team that made the playin last season.
it's almost as if 'league observers' are trying to project what they think should happen on what's actually happening
the GM just today told fans to look to the 15-5 stretch! That's the mode they're in
A lot of Bulls fans do this too. They think that the front office has some secret plan to get better, but they just do nothing again and again. I don’t know if AKME is just lazy or they just don’t want to get burned again like they did with the Vuc trade. It’s hilarious that the Bulls are focused on their 15-5 record and not the 2-9 record they had right before it. IIRC, the Bulls actually gained a game in the play-in standings during that period because how awful the rest of the east was.
I definitely think it’s the latter. Doing nothing is part of the plan.
We're still interested in Kuminga. We're still trying to dump Williams. We are still shopping Vuc and Coby.
We hopefully will not be just running it back.
Basically all those moves are sideways moves. Dumping Williams to get Kuminga isn't really going to do much for your team. Does Vooch even have a trade market? Seems like bulls will simply take back salary in that trade. There is also no reason to shop Coby. I much rather keep Coby and try to resign him than pay Giddy 25-30 million a year.
Kuminga is much better than Williams, whose BBIQ fuel gage is on empty. Coby is already 25. I like him a lot, he's a great scorer, but his ceiling is Ben Gordon. Paying $40m to a guy with 6th man of the year skills is not the way we should go. Yes, Vuc has value, he's always had value, the question is how much.
Kuminga doesn't have a great BBIQ either. I can talk myself into Kuminga bc he is a freak athletic and has shown flashes. But he reminds me of Wiggins who is not really a player you should be paying top money to if you hope to win.
As for White, I agree 40m a year would be crazy to pay White. But I dont think that's his market. His market is more Jordan Clarkson type money (think 20 million a year max, maybe 25).
As for Vuc, I doubt we get an actual useful/good asset for him. I dont think he is worth a first round pick. He might be worth a player like Clint Capella (another older slightly washed center). Maybe you can get a player like Knecht and another contract from the Lakers. I dont think you get much more than that.
Yeah, I wish we could keep Coby for $25m but I don't think it will happen. You might be right about Vuc, but if we get a couple of 2nds for him, we can sell them to the Lakers for $5 mil apiece.
My thoughts on noa is that hes just the player Akme have been drafting, projects where there's potential but no real notable skills. To have faith in his success is based on two things - A) either he can self develop, B)you have faith the bulls can develop.
I have no faith in the bulls so it's all on noa....and I feel like he needs a lot of work .
I also want to say as someone who spends way too much time on bulls reddit these days...I miss the insights offered by this community. Bulls fans outside, especially in reddit....man... Now I know why Jerry reinsdorf can do what he wants
I've gone on there a few times lately, and there are some stone dumb fuckers there. Plenty of good posters too, but lots of just weird responses.
Maybe I'm wrong, but Noa has huge potential to me in a way that Pat and Terry obviously didn't. Physically, he seems an order of magnitude better than those guys. In terms of skills and competition, he's right there with Matas. Every report I've seen indicates that he's got a pretty high motor.
I found this pretty extensive scouting report on him.
https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2025/5/26/24433722/2025-nba-draft-scouting-report-noa-essengue-atlanta-hawks-prospect
My thought is that he's just bigger than Terry or Phillips, not necessarily better. He has athletic potential, but he's not like an Uber elite athlete. His game has flashes but he isn't good enough at anything to suggest he has a skill. He shows room for growth and he's super young, but his development will rely heavily on what he's coached and asked to do by the bulls.
Like how does one get a giannis? I think first giannis was just an Uber athlete from day 1. Skinny sure, but lanky and explosive from day 1. But also kidd and the bucks made him play pg on a bad roster. Let him learn the skills on the fly, a big part Giannis is so special is that as he got bigger and stronger he was able to take the ball and fly down the court and make plays when defenses packed the paint.
Are the bulls smart enough to do that. Can they afford to with so many other players that need development and attention. And if they can't then why draft a kid like this?
There's way too many variables here with noa and I guess we have to wait and see, but even beringer to me would have been better because at the very least you knew you were getting a rim runner and can help him excel at that.
I hope I'm wrong and noa flourishes…but I feel like we have seen this story with this team and this front office and buzelis is just the exception.
OK, fair enough. At this point he is a project. Our history with projects is not great, so we all have a right to be skeptical.
I do think by taking Essengue, instead of trading the pick, it shows that AK likes the guy a lot, since he committed to him when he had other options.
It also shows us something about his rebuilding plan, which is also good to see. This pick seems consistent with the Buzelis pick. We have a trend developing.
What does Beringer offer at "rim running" that Essengue doesn't? He's got 1 inch of standing reach (9'3" vs. 9'2"). The big thing to me is that "rim running" itself is one of those things that sounds like a compliment but really is saying "this guy has no skill" but running basket to basket.
Anyway, I think Essengue's got skills to do more than just rim run. But he seems to be good at cutting and have pretty good hands, and he's super fast.
I think what I really disagree with is that you are crediting a lot of Giannis' development to someone other than Giannis. I don't think a few months of playing in any respect plays much of a part in comparison to his natural talent and years of working at it.
What I think is Ball Don't Lie. It's actually very rare that teams are leaving anything on the table with guys as far as I can tell. If the guy can play, they're gonna play him. Fans like to think otherwise, and imagine the right "development" can get blood from a stone, but it's just not so.
That doesn't mean that teams shouldn't appropriately play guys and shouldn't bother making resources (ahem Peter Patton) available to them and make programs to improve them. They should, and all that stuff helps. But mostly, it's talent and determination on the part of a player.
If you have a talented and determined player, a terrible situation might slightly and temporarily hold him back. If you have a mediocre player, a good "developmental situation" ain't gonna help.
See table below, but Berringer measured better in all things to do with size at the combine and had more success in his league at blocking shots compared to noa. Rim running to me is being a shot blocker on the defensive end and a finisher in transition on the other end.
| Measured | Noa Essengue | Joan Beringer |
|--------------------|------------------|------------------|
| Height | 6′10″ | 6′11″ |
| Wingspan | 7′0¾″ | 7′4½″ |
| Standing Reach | 9′1¾″ | 9′3″ |
| Weight | ~204 lbs | ~235 lbs |
| Standing Vert | Not reported | 29″ |
| Max Vert | Not reported | 32.5″ |
| Blocks per Game | 0.6 | 1.4 |
| Blocks per 36 | ~0.94 | ~2.7 |
Right, but I just don't care about having a center like that very much. I'm never gonna pass up a guy with big-time potential for a "rim runner".
Reportedly Essengue at the BWB combine last year had a 35.5 Max Vert FWIW.
My bigger point is that Essengue is a totally different type of player with a lot more potential utility, but, if you're dialing in on the particular thing that Beringer is good at, then Essengue is potentially useful in that role too because he's almost as long and significantly more athletic.
It's just that he's not been used in that role because, crucially, he's got additional skills that make him more interesting to do a bunch of things that Beringer can't. Which, again, is why you want Essengue and not Beringer.
I'm really just saying that to me both Berringer and noa are similar prospects, very young, athletic bigs...but Berringer is more defined in his projection. Maybe you see that noa could be more , but it's so theoretical since in his current state he has nothing but his mobility.
Berringer may be nothing more than a poor man's Daniel gafford or javale mcgee, and while that may not be as exciting as a pascal siakim 2.0 projection, it feels more likely.
I get your point that taking a chance on a guy who could be special is better than drafting a guy who likely fits a role that's not uncommon in the NBA... especially at 12....but my lack of trust in this org makes me fear it's just a wasted draft pick.
Athletic bigs who can block shots and run the court are just like 3 and D guys, they may not be stars but every team wants one on their roster. For a bulls team lacking assets, I think that's more important than another project that they won't be able to develop.
I think at this point it's moot to argue these semantics though...noa is a bull and we will see what he becomes soon enough
I’d say he’s a step below Buzelis in skills. He doesn’t have the handle or shot making abilities that Buzelis did coming into the draft. He’s also a little bigger.
I think the Platonic versions of both are perfect complementaries at SF and PF. Buzelis will have a litte more on ball creativity while Essengue won’t need that as a PF, but could have enough to succeed.
I saw some comps for Buzelis and Essengue to be Franz Wagner and Pascal Siakam, respectively. I think there is a loooong way to go for both, but that’s kind of how I’m seeing them as “if they reach their 98th %ile outcome.”
if Matas could be Wagner with a functional 3 and Essengue could be even a middle class Siakam, i'd be happy.
not sure either of them can play 3 fulltime. Both are too upright to guard wings and neither have the ball skills....Matas could get there as far as handle/shot but not sure if he has the lateral quickness to guard 3s
Essengue doesn't look as explosive and jumpy as Matas from what I see, but he might be quick enough to keep up with 1-4. I dunno, he looks really smooth to me in the playoff footage at least.
Kings want to trade lavine. Pat and vuc for lavine!
No taksie backsie!