To all the people (on other sites of course) saying, "Maybe this was an intentional tank loss." It wasn't. If they actually wanted to tank, they'd have put their scrubs in to finish the game.
They didn't do that. They lost the game when they put their two best players back in the game. This was just a collapse by the best players on the team.
When that meltdown occurred, Zach's terrible decision making was obvious but Donovan didn't call a single timeout. Atlanta's really shifted their defense, they're a fun, ballhawking team now and really different from when we last played them, but Snyder doubling the P&R seems to have been just something he threw out there and couldn't believe the Bulls didn't adjust to it. They just kept throwing it out there until the Bulls took advantage of it and Donovan never adjusted or, seemingly, even addressed it.
Claiming that he threw the game is such a cope for the fact that he was massively outcoached by Snyder. He didn't seem to understand what was happening until the game was finished and he was halfway through the postgame when he finally seemed to be processing it.
The basketball psychology of this team is utterly fucked and it’s both hilarious and infuriating. All you need to know about this group of players is this:
If you put any type of expectations/pressure on this team, they will fold. Once you realize that, everything makes sense.
That’s why they blow leads, but have amazing come backs. There’s a lot more pressure to keep/maintain a leads. Nobody expects anything from a downtrodden team that’s losing by 20.
It also explains their win-loss record and why they fail to “defend home court”. Yes Zach and co, the home town crowd expects you to win. They paid good money, and expect you to deliver.
When they play elite (or good) teams, nobody expects them to win. As a result, they usually put up a good fight or sometimes get a win. Put them against a team that they “should beat”… get some popcorn and enjoy the show.
So yea, the Zach Lavine led Bulls aren’t erratic they’re just cowardly (and not that good).
This was a LEGENDARY game, I'm gonna be talking about this one for years. They were up by 13 with 5 minutes to go and lost by 8, I've never seen anything like this.
Patrick Williams got a shot blocked so badly that it went straight up in the air. That's not unusual for Patrick Williams, but what was unusual is that it was a corner 3:
I don't think it's good, but I don't think it's their worst contact.
3 and D forwards are basically the most sought after players in the league. Despite how infuriatingly mediocre Pat has been in his career, he's still a decent player.
$18 million a year for the next five years isn't really that crazy for a decent player.
Could they have let the market decide his worth and then re-signed him for less? Probably. But his contract will likely never put the Bulls in a stranglehold the way Zach or Vooch's contracts have.
I'm not even sure that Pat is decent. Even with the 3&D halo effect, he is replacement level or worse. $18M a year plus a player option (!!!) in the fifth year is really insane for that kind of production. We lament Vuc's deal at $20M a year, but he is so much better than Pat and only has one year left. While the cap will go up, every dollar counts when you're trying to navigate these new CBA rules.
Yes it's the worst contract IMO, dude's a ZERO. Only to be surpassed by a Giddey re-signing. If someone could somehow manage Zach's contract as a rental + future salary swap or via a well engineered extension they'd at least have a scorer.
Like Otto Porter Jr, he has great offensive efficiency, solid defense, brittle bones and a stubborn refusal to take more touches or shots. Analytics nerds lust over the math but you can watch both of these guys games and forget they're in it. Short of some light switch flip, I think he's a role player, comparable to maybe Dorian Finney-Smith. That guy has value but is kinda wasted on a non-contender and 5 years is a lot for an actual winner. This is a really awkward place to be when you're 23 years old.
If he's just lost his athleticism (which I think was overrated even before the foot injury) then yes. A big forward who can hit standstill threes, the Heat would sign that guy to the minimum for 3 years and he'd score more PPG too
I was poking around on PBP Stats (thanks to whoever it was that pointed it out to me a few months ago) and on the surface, it looks Vuc is the problem with the defense. Far more than Giddey or Zach.
Vuc + Giddey on / Zach off is by far the worst combination of the three with opponents making 61% of twos & 47% of threes.
But Zac & Giddey on / Vuc off is by far the best combo... opponents make 52% of twos & 24% of threes. Plus they have a Net Rating of 13.14, by far the best of any combination of those three players. (Zach & Giddey each alone are next with +1.2 & +1.4 net ratings)
Giddey on / Zach & Vuc off is relatively ok defensively w/ opponents making their worst two pt percentage at 50%, while making 33% of threes.
I'm coming around to YFBB's opinion that Vuc is terrible, in spite of being a double double machine.
Not that sure. DFS plugs a hole but they could still reason to want Zach to fill another. This deal reduces their payroll and now can more comfortably use Rui as matching salary. This did send out most of their non-premium assets though, so while mechanics of a deal still work there is now more of a 'FRP or no deal' price that AK will lose on
To all the people (on other sites of course) saying, "Maybe this was an intentional tank loss." It wasn't. If they actually wanted to tank, they'd have put their scrubs in to finish the game.
They didn't do that. They lost the game when they put their two best players back in the game. This was just a collapse by the best players on the team.
the best two players available
their best two players, if subjectively reaching for two-way impact, are Ayo and Lonzo and both were both out. TANK?
Billy's playing 4D chess and we're all playing checkers.
When that meltdown occurred, Zach's terrible decision making was obvious but Donovan didn't call a single timeout. Atlanta's really shifted their defense, they're a fun, ballhawking team now and really different from when we last played them, but Snyder doubling the P&R seems to have been just something he threw out there and couldn't believe the Bulls didn't adjust to it. They just kept throwing it out there until the Bulls took advantage of it and Donovan never adjusted or, seemingly, even addressed it.
Claiming that he threw the game is such a cope for the fact that he was massively outcoached by Snyder. He didn't seem to understand what was happening until the game was finished and he was halfway through the postgame when he finally seemed to be processing it.
The basketball psychology of this team is utterly fucked and it’s both hilarious and infuriating. All you need to know about this group of players is this:
If you put any type of expectations/pressure on this team, they will fold. Once you realize that, everything makes sense.
That’s why they blow leads, but have amazing come backs. There’s a lot more pressure to keep/maintain a leads. Nobody expects anything from a downtrodden team that’s losing by 20.
It also explains their win-loss record and why they fail to “defend home court”. Yes Zach and co, the home town crowd expects you to win. They paid good money, and expect you to deliver.
When they play elite (or good) teams, nobody expects them to win. As a result, they usually put up a good fight or sometimes get a win. Put them against a team that they “should beat”… get some popcorn and enjoy the show.
So yea, the Zach Lavine led Bulls aren’t erratic they’re just cowardly (and not that good).
This was a LEGENDARY game, I'm gonna be talking about this one for years. They were up by 13 with 5 minutes to go and lost by 8, I've never seen anything like this.
Patrick Williams got a shot blocked so badly that it went straight up in the air. That's not unusual for Patrick Williams, but what was unusual is that it was a corner 3:
https://streamable.com/qrjd3w
I cannot remember ever seeing this. Wow!
EVERY PLAY WAS LIKE THIS.
Is it crazy to say that Patrick's contract is the team's worst? I couldn't believe it when they gave him that deal and it just looks worse every game.
I don't think it's good, but I don't think it's their worst contact.
3 and D forwards are basically the most sought after players in the league. Despite how infuriatingly mediocre Pat has been in his career, he's still a decent player.
$18 million a year for the next five years isn't really that crazy for a decent player.
Could they have let the market decide his worth and then re-signed him for less? Probably. But his contract will likely never put the Bulls in a stranglehold the way Zach or Vooch's contracts have.
I'm not even sure that Pat is decent. Even with the 3&D halo effect, he is replacement level or worse. $18M a year plus a player option (!!!) in the fifth year is really insane for that kind of production. We lament Vuc's deal at $20M a year, but he is so much better than Pat and only has one year left. While the cap will go up, every dollar counts when you're trying to navigate these new CBA rules.
I don't even disagree for the most part. I'm just saying I don't think he's the worst contract AK has signed.
Yes it's the worst contract IMO, dude's a ZERO. Only to be surpassed by a Giddey re-signing. If someone could somehow manage Zach's contract as a rental + future salary swap or via a well engineered extension they'd at least have a scorer.
Like Otto Porter Jr, he has great offensive efficiency, solid defense, brittle bones and a stubborn refusal to take more touches or shots. Analytics nerds lust over the math but you can watch both of these guys games and forget they're in it. Short of some light switch flip, I think he's a role player, comparable to maybe Dorian Finney-Smith. That guy has value but is kinda wasted on a non-contender and 5 years is a lot for an actual winner. This is a really awkward place to be when you're 23 years old.
If he's just lost his athleticism (which I think was overrated even before the foot injury) then yes. A big forward who can hit standstill threes, the Heat would sign that guy to the minimum for 3 years and he'd score more PPG too
He doesn't look like a plus athlete out there.
"This video isn't available anymore"
{Chef's kiss}
I was poking around on PBP Stats (thanks to whoever it was that pointed it out to me a few months ago) and on the surface, it looks Vuc is the problem with the defense. Far more than Giddey or Zach.
Vuc + Giddey on / Zach off is by far the worst combination of the three with opponents making 61% of twos & 47% of threes.
But Zac & Giddey on / Vuc off is by far the best combo... opponents make 52% of twos & 24% of threes. Plus they have a Net Rating of 13.14, by far the best of any combination of those three players. (Zach & Giddey each alone are next with +1.2 & +1.4 net ratings)
Giddey on / Zach & Vuc off is relatively ok defensively w/ opponents making their worst two pt percentage at 50%, while making 33% of threes.
I'm coming around to YFBB's opinion that Vuc is terrible, in spite of being a double double machine.
You mean drop-cover nitwit Vuc?
Yeesh, now Ayo is out multiple weeks with this calf strain.
Great for the tank! Yay?
We can cross off the Lakers as a trade destination for Zach.
https://x.com/shamscharania/status/1873416860160659813?s=46&t=ZSOVCRbS7N9ur50jmhMuqg
Not that sure. DFS plugs a hole but they could still reason to want Zach to fill another. This deal reduces their payroll and now can more comfortably use Rui as matching salary. This did send out most of their non-premium assets though, so while mechanics of a deal still work there is now more of a 'FRP or no deal' price that AK will lose on
I think both sides should compromise and have Austin Reaves as the "asset"