I hope they lob a ton of them at NOLA for Missi. Will be so brutal if the Bulls come out of all of this nonsense without an interesting/developmental big. I don't think Dieng fits the bill there.
Agreed. Maybe Dieng has some talent but doesn't look he will make much of a difference around the basket. I don't believe that the Pelicans will trade Missi for a bunch of junk and/or 2nd round draft picks.
Beringer is likely a bust, and with Bulls player development very likely a bust, but he is tall and 19 years old and several years away from free agency
he would have been great to have, especially on this team. That said, if the choices are: trade Ayo and get Dillingham, don't trade Ayo and let him walk, don't trade Ayo and re-sign him to the MLE and hope that gets you more next trade deadline... I'm taking the first.
Seriously. We gave up a starting level, two way guard. For a small guard, who can't shoot, and a wing who doesn't play. Heck I rather have Julian Phillips than Leonard Miller.
And I dont trust second round picks in the hands of the bulls.
I think Minnesota likes Berninger. Gobert has two seasons left after this, and he's still playing well. I'm sure they're hoping that he can be good enough for the next two years while Beringer grows.
That was the plan for Conley and Dillingham, but Conley has fallen off a cliff, and Dillingham has been bad and maybe even worse this year.
Yes, and no. I mean, I think they should have, but I'm also glad AKME did this rather than doing nothing and just extending Ayo or Coby and then hoping you can get something more a year from now.
Like, should someone have offered more than what Charlotte did? Sure. But then it's, "Well, we weren't getting the offers we wanted, so we did nothing instead." That's definitely not what I want.
Minnesota might also see a world where Ayo isn't some super duper missing piece and is instead playing 15 minutes per night as "just a guy" (as a worse case scenario - obviously, they're hoping he's more than that) and not wanting to give up a first because of that potential downside.
I mean, I feel ya. I am in no way confident that AKME is getting the best deals they can. I don't believe they are at all. And if one wants to complain about something, that's definitely out there. But I also think that I've wanted this team to move on for years, and now they finally are, and the value difference between what they got and what they maybe could have gotten, is not great enough for me to want to suffer through another year of the same thing.
Can someone explain the Bulls FO obsession with second round picks, cast off guards and really short centers who can't play defense?
It could be that AK is Billy Beane but after multiple years of this I think he struggles to trade and is almost throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks.
I think there is a real sense that teams are overvaluing first round picks right now, and those are harder to trade for. It seems like second round picks are not highly valued and that high second rounders are almost as good as a first rounder anyway.
So maybe collecting these second round picks as fluff and trade filler is smart? Even if it means taking on underwhelming throwaway pieces.
The Bulls taking a flyer on a reclamation project for Dillingham makes sense in isolation except that we already did this for Giddey, just traded for Ivey and Simons, and traded away very serviceable guards in Ayo and Coby. I struggle to see Rob as a long term value over any of the traded pieces or Tre.
I mean, Ayo, Coby, Ivey, and Simons, are all expiring this season, aren't they? Dillingham is not good at all, but they shouldn't really be keeping any of those guys either. My guess is they'll try a Giddey-Dillingham-Ivey combo next year, all 23-and-under. White, Dosunmu, Sexton, and Simons are all in their prime or just reaching it, and will be demanding $20 million plus. They're not going to be iwnning next season anywya, so what's the point?
Rob is not good value. The dude is shooting 33% from the field. He is undersized, can't shoot, is a negative defender. His value is closer to Julian Phillips or Terry than it is to Ayo.
And 4 second round picks is absurd and pointless. Half of these will be sold for cash considerations.
But yes this is a rebuild...but it's idiotic to wait to mid-way point of the season to do this.
Agreed. Best that the Bulls can do under the circumstances. Bulls had hit their ceiling. Bulls had six players (Vucevic, White, Dosunmu, Collins, Huerter and Carter) who are free agents. Either trade and get what you can or get nothing.
One of the most significant takeaways from this week is that the Bulls are likely going to be very bad the next couple of years. So this year’s pick might be in the top 10 and next year’s pick might be in the top 5.
I’m not sure AK has plans for this summer beyond giving Ivey a new contract and signing another RFA or two.
Drafting well has never been more important for this front office. They’re not going to be able to just shrug it off if any of their future picks are in the tier of Patrick Williams and Dalen Terry. They have to draft impact players with a majority of their picks now.
Today’s press conference should be fascinating. AK will get some real questions about his big picture plans and he has a responsibility to give legitimate answers. “We’ll see” if he actually does.
WTF is going on. The bulls are just trading players to trade players. All they are getting are worse players and second round picks...which will likely be sold.
Also if they are planning on tanking, you dont tank after 60% of the season is done and you are above 500. They are so far behind the Wizards, Jazz, Kings, etc to be the worst team in the league and have a legit shot at a top 4 pick. This is just idiotic team management.
The lack of first round picks is pretty easy to explain.
You’re not getting first round picks for non-stars on expiring deals.
I think AK could have gotten first rounders for Coby and Ayo last year, but he foolishly prioritized the play-in tournament and this is the price he has to pay for that.
So the question to ask right now should not be “Why are the Bulls so focused on second round picks?” It should be “Why did the Bulls prioritize the play-in tournament last year over the ability to pursue first round picks?”
Bulls are so lucky this isn't a home game tonight. It'd also mean AK would have to be in-person for media. Instead he's doing it over Zoom and I expect several convenient 'connection issues'
With that two-way slot, you'd think they'd want to grab a big from Windy City or something to have a live body on the floor tonight. Even if they would waive them shortly thereafter.
Now? I know this was tongue in cheek but obviously many of us have been on that train for 2-3 years (some since the moment of the Vuc trade). Now I'm just kind of interested to see who this new AKME is, because it's not the AKME we've ever seen (and yes, it may very well be as bad or worse).
But part of me sees it as just rapid-fire AKME catching up to full speed, like when you have input lag on your laptop keyboard, and you keep typing but nothing shows up, and then all of a sudden it's "and I'm s&gca-2ah@(Jsh" all at once because you moved off "home row".
Or maybe it's like all of AKME's constipated non-trades over 4 years just shat all over everyone via some nasty 48-hour roster management virus.
I mean, I think all of us agree that the real mistake has been the inactivity these past few years. But when you are already at this point, were there better trades available at all?
I like the Huerter and Vooch trades. I'm disappointed with the Coby and Ayo trades. As everyone I guess. But I think it is because I'm comparing these returns with the hypothetical returns we would have got a year ago. I really doubt there were better offers for them once you get to this point of their contracts.
On the other hand, the Yabusele trade sucks now, a year ago and always.
I agree, we can't know (at least until some info gets leaked or declarations from someone involved), and it is possible (probable) they made mistakes in these trades.
But I can see positives in getting four 2nd round picks for Ayo at this point, for example.
Idk, I guess I'm trying to stay positive, because at least, after years of craving for some trade activity, they are doing just that. And collecting 2nd round picks instead of giving them away for free!
Speaking of KC, remember how he said that the trade talks that went nowhere last deadline and last summer were "laying groundwork" for moves this season? Are we seeing the results of that groundwork now?
It's better than what they were last week. Any activity, even getting worse, is better than staying the same course and being consistently mediocre. There's been almost nothing fun about this team the past 5 years other than the occasional 10-20 game stretch. At least we can hope that they get lucky.
Saying this is progress does not mean someone must also be saying AKME is not ass.
People say, "Bulls suck. But also don't tank. But also use the players that make up this mediocre suck-y team and turn them into superstars." I don't get it, and people who say that just have no basis in reality.
Meh. They've been stale and staid the past few years. They're boring, uninteresting, and there's no real reason to follow them as a team.
No matter what happens now, there will be something different. I've run my head into a wall on repeat before. Continuing to do that, it's not fun. If I turn around, sure I might run right into another wall, but I also might do something exciting.
I don't know that I'm "applauding" it and saying "Bravo, great job AKME!" In fact, I think I've tried to be pretty clear I'm NOT doing that. I can still be happy it happened. That doesn't mean you have to be, obviously, but I am. But don't imply I'm applauding this front office.
I think final judgment also has to wait until the deadline. It's a hot mess right now. Not to say the end result won't also be one, but it will be a different story if they flip some of the incoming players and/or the seconds for a more interesting prospect. But right now things just don't make sense. If it comes together into something resembling a plan or at least vague forethought the overall picture might be clearer.
And I guess this is where I am. Things made sense a week ago. They were going to be mediocre and that was 100% the end-goal. That sucked.
Now, the only thing that makes sense is that the team will be different. To me, that's better than what they were.
In my most hopeful of scenarios, this team sucks for the next two years, AKME gets fired, and they get a real executive in who can actually make this team better.
I think the alternative is what Matt has been writing about for the past 2-3 years: AKME just tries to get into the play-in the same thing that happened the past 3 seasons happens the next 3 seasons and AKME is still in charge.
Yup. I mean I had barely been following them since it just wasn't interesting. But we have a few more hours for this picture to come into focus. If it doesn't... well idk. lol.
It's technically progress in that they are at least not eschewing sell trades for their play-in push
It's not really significant progress though, especially if they do cobble together more mediocrity the rest of this season for another 10-20 game stretch
I'm 100% happy in saying it's not significant progress. I haven't disagreed with that at all. But saying it isn't ANY progress, especially after the determinedly staid mediocrity they've been achieving, I just can't agree to that.
It’s not even technically progress, it’s regression.
In practice they depleted their asset base. They added exactly one useful asset, a high 2nd. The rest of the stuff they added are guys they shouldn’t even want or who will be scrounging for an NBA job next year. And they’ve significantly complicated their asset of having cap space this summer.
Did they help their chances to Tank? Sure, but not significantly. More importantly they could have done the same thing just by completing the Vuc trade and sitting Coby and Giddey.
Had they done that, they could maybe have had a quicker turnaround this summer.
Instead, this is the front end of a Magic/Pistons style five year + rebuild. And outside of this year, where their chances would have been the same at a high pick just by being prudent with their assets, they are heading into a couple years where their chances draft sucks and they have no real assets.
Next year is a 20 win team and Giddey will be halfway through his value contract. The logic that led them here will continue to spiral.
I agree they are negative assets now, but get them in our program (a bunch of minutes for guard-obsessed Billy Donovan and doesn't matter if you make playoffs) and they can turn positive. Dillingham and Ivey.
can't say 'these second-draft guys like Dillingham and Ivey *are* a strategy' without acknowledging AK regime sucks at player evaluation and development
Because their first-draft evaluations have had a lot of failures, so much so we don't even notice. Terry and Phillips now gone, Pat Williams stuck here. No 2-way guys have popped.
I'd disagree with Will completely. The level of player Coby is exactly the type of player you do not build around. He's Ben Gordon - a good and efficient scorer that can occasionally get hot and be the leading scorer on a really good team - but doesn't really have the juice to carry them game-in, game-out, year-in, year-out, (becuase those guys are perrenial All Stars) and has enough deficiencies on defense that over an entire year, he basically gives as much as he gets. When you're paying market rate, it becomes too expensive.
These are the kind of players that, once you have the superstar, you add them. I mean, he's not even as good as Austin Reaves, and I'd be hesitant to try to build around him without already have LBJ and AD (then Luka) on the team.
White is more representative of the player you use to build around a better player. Have a star, helio-centric star? White is great to complement him and take power off. Have a stud defensive center? They complement each other well.
Yep. I think he is absolutely a valuable player to have on a contending team. I just disagree that it's a player you build around. They're the type you sign on the MLE or that you trade Gabe Vincent for or whatever. They're a missing piece type of player rather than a foundational type
LOCKING THIS THREAD and moving to the Live Chat for the final hour of the deadline (plus AK's riveting press conference after)
https://open.substack.com/chat/posts/8a93e508-ec76-4165-8e74-af8d94fa3ea5
Report says:
Minnesota traded Rob Dillingham, Leonard Miller and four second-round picks to Chicago for Dosunmu and Julian Phillips, sources said.
Allergic to excess firsts
seriously what ARE they going to do with these picks lol
I hope they lob a ton of them at NOLA for Missi. Will be so brutal if the Bulls come out of all of this nonsense without an interesting/developmental big. I don't think Dieng fits the bill there.
I think it's the only thing that makes sense is that he is going to throw a ton of them somewhere. A few more hours to go to see, I guess.
I think that is the plan, they are going to break the record for most 2nds in a trade for a single player
Turning Dillingham into Missi would be a step in the right direction.
Agreed. Maybe Dieng has some talent but doesn't look he will make much of a difference around the basket. I don't believe that the Pelicans will trade Missi for a bunch of junk and/or 2nd round draft picks.
Minnesota had no firsts to trade, but they couldn't even get Beringer?
I have paid so little attention to the NBA the last few years I don't even know who anyone is anymore lol.
Beringer is likely a bust, and with Bulls player development very likely a bust, but he is tall and 19 years old and several years away from free agency
he would have been great to have, especially on this team. That said, if the choices are: trade Ayo and get Dillingham, don't trade Ayo and let him walk, don't trade Ayo and re-sign him to the MLE and hope that gets you more next trade deadline... I'm taking the first.
Seriously. We gave up a starting level, two way guard. For a small guard, who can't shoot, and a wing who doesn't play. Heck I rather have Julian Phillips than Leonard Miller.
And I dont trust second round picks in the hands of the bulls.
I think Minnesota likes Berninger. Gobert has two seasons left after this, and he's still playing well. I'm sure they're hoping that he can be good enough for the next two years while Beringer grows.
That was the plan for Conley and Dillingham, but Conley has fallen off a cliff, and Dillingham has been bad and maybe even worse this year.
I understand that, but shouldn't a team have to give up something they like for a win-now acquisition?
Yes, and no. I mean, I think they should have, but I'm also glad AKME did this rather than doing nothing and just extending Ayo or Coby and then hoping you can get something more a year from now.
Like, should someone have offered more than what Charlotte did? Sure. But then it's, "Well, we weren't getting the offers we wanted, so we did nothing instead." That's definitely not what I want.
Minnesota might also see a world where Ayo isn't some super duper missing piece and is instead playing 15 minutes per night as "just a guy" (as a worse case scenario - obviously, they're hoping he's more than that) and not wanting to give up a first because of that potential downside.
I mean, I feel ya. I am in no way confident that AKME is getting the best deals they can. I don't believe they are at all. And if one wants to complain about something, that's definitely out there. But I also think that I've wanted this team to move on for years, and now they finally are, and the value difference between what they got and what they maybe could have gotten, is not great enough for me to want to suffer through another year of the same thing.
Wolves fans were afraid that they lost Beringer, but I’m not sure AK knows who that is.
I don't know. Seems AK follows French players pretty closely...
Can someone explain the Bulls FO obsession with second round picks, cast off guards and really short centers who can't play defense?
It could be that AK is Billy Beane but after multiple years of this I think he struggles to trade and is almost throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks.
and prior to this week he thought 2nd round picks were worthless
it's almost as if he is in way over his head and flailing.
he could be learning on the job a bit, and isn't that wonderful that Jerry Reinsdorf allows this opportunity
I think there is a real sense that teams are overvaluing first round picks right now, and those are harder to trade for. It seems like second round picks are not highly valued and that high second rounders are almost as good as a first rounder anyway.
So maybe collecting these second round picks as fluff and trade filler is smart? Even if it means taking on underwhelming throwaway pieces.
it was always smart, AK is, as usual, late to the trend
He really is the worst.
maybe It was somerhing like
ME : how do we manage de trade deadline ?
AK : I don't know
ME: Maybe we could pile up guards and 2nd rounders ?
AK: I don't know
ME : OK let's do it !
AK : I don't know
Four second round picks and a very recent top ten pick is fine value for Ayo on an expiring deal.
This is officially a rebuild.
The Bulls taking a flyer on a reclamation project for Dillingham makes sense in isolation except that we already did this for Giddey, just traded for Ivey and Simons, and traded away very serviceable guards in Ayo and Coby. I struggle to see Rob as a long term value over any of the traded pieces or Tre.
I mean, Ayo, Coby, Ivey, and Simons, are all expiring this season, aren't they? Dillingham is not good at all, but they shouldn't really be keeping any of those guys either. My guess is they'll try a Giddey-Dillingham-Ivey combo next year, all 23-and-under. White, Dosunmu, Sexton, and Simons are all in their prime or just reaching it, and will be demanding $20 million plus. They're not going to be iwnning next season anywya, so what's the point?
Rob is not good value. The dude is shooting 33% from the field. He is undersized, can't shoot, is a negative defender. His value is closer to Julian Phillips or Terry than it is to Ayo.
And 4 second round picks is absurd and pointless. Half of these will be sold for cash considerations.
But yes this is a rebuild...but it's idiotic to wait to mid-way point of the season to do this.
Agreed. Best that the Bulls can do under the circumstances. Bulls had hit their ceiling. Bulls had six players (Vucevic, White, Dosunmu, Collins, Huerter and Carter) who are free agents. Either trade and get what you can or get nothing.
One of the most significant takeaways from this week is that the Bulls are likely going to be very bad the next couple of years. So this year’s pick might be in the top 10 and next year’s pick might be in the top 5.
I’m not sure AK has plans for this summer beyond giving Ivey a new contract and signing another RFA or two.
Drafting well has never been more important for this front office. They’re not going to be able to just shrug it off if any of their future picks are in the tier of Patrick Williams and Dalen Terry. They have to draft impact players with a majority of their picks now.
Today’s press conference should be fascinating. AK will get some real questions about his big picture plans and he has a responsibility to give legitimate answers. “We’ll see” if he actually does.
According to Ricky O'Donnell, the '27 and '28 draft classes are looking incredibly weak. Per usual, AK waited too long to finally make a decision.
there's still a few hours. Simons acquisition is not official yet so he can be sent out in a big acquisition
I do not think they're tanking, and AK will certainly not say it. He'll keep with the same vague nothing of 'competitive, but building'
WTF is going on. The bulls are just trading players to trade players. All they are getting are worse players and second round picks...which will likely be sold.
Also if they are planning on tanking, you dont tank after 60% of the season is done and you are above 500. They are so far behind the Wizards, Jazz, Kings, etc to be the worst team in the league and have a legit shot at a top 4 pick. This is just idiotic team management.
it's like the Bulls hired a new GM who vowed to clean up prior mistakes
Yeah, please investigate if possibly this activity, however poor, is rather ME or AK ^^
The lack of first round picks is pretty easy to explain.
You’re not getting first round picks for non-stars on expiring deals.
I think AK could have gotten first rounders for Coby and Ayo last year, but he foolishly prioritized the play-in tournament and this is the price he has to pay for that.
So the question to ask right now should not be “Why are the Bulls so focused on second round picks?” It should be “Why did the Bulls prioritize the play-in tournament last year over the ability to pursue first round picks?”
they could also have extended both and then trade them for first round picks next year if the expiring salary was such a detriment to their market
meh, they could also get hurt and be untradeable next year as well.
Serious question - will the Bulls even have enough players to play tonight?
they signed Mac McClung to a two-way deal and he's in Toronto
Ivey should be available?
Sexton and Dieng acquisitions are official so perhaps them too
Yukimania
Bulls are so lucky this isn't a home game tonight. It'd also mean AK would have to be in-person for media. Instead he's doing it over Zoom and I expect several convenient 'connection issues'
is "lost connection" now an integral part of the Bulls media bingo ?
Soooo how many second round picks do we own now? Seems like a silly strategy for a team that has not been very good at drafting.
I think the strategy is to offer 12 second round picks for Giannis. We're almost there!
They also signed Mac McClung to a two-way.
A lot of focus on all of the small guards. Not enough focus on the fact that most of these players are gone this offseason or next.
With that two-way slot, you'd think they'd want to grab a big from Windy City or something to have a live body on the floor tonight. Even if they would waive them shortly thereafter.
the Bulls are not a basketball team but dinner theater, and McClung+Yuki is the show
Dillingham eats nearly $7M in cap space next year by the way.
Miller has a team option but like the departed Julian Phillips it was barely above the minimum.
Fire AKME
Now? I know this was tongue in cheek but obviously many of us have been on that train for 2-3 years (some since the moment of the Vuc trade). Now I'm just kind of interested to see who this new AKME is, because it's not the AKME we've ever seen (and yes, it may very well be as bad or worse).
But part of me sees it as just rapid-fire AKME catching up to full speed, like when you have input lag on your laptop keyboard, and you keep typing but nothing shows up, and then all of a sudden it's "and I'm s&gca-2ah@(Jsh" all at once because you moved off "home row".
Or maybe it's like all of AKME's constipated non-trades over 4 years just shat all over everyone via some nasty 48-hour roster management virus.
I mean, I think all of us agree that the real mistake has been the inactivity these past few years. But when you are already at this point, were there better trades available at all?
I like the Huerter and Vooch trades. I'm disappointed with the Coby and Ayo trades. As everyone I guess. But I think it is because I'm comparing these returns with the hypothetical returns we would have got a year ago. I really doubt there were better offers for them once you get to this point of their contracts.
On the other hand, the Yabusele trade sucks now, a year ago and always.
that's the rub, we can't know if AK is taking the best deals because
1) he is a poor talent evaluator
2) he could genuinely think Ivey and Dillingham are better than a first rounder because they're 'young players with experience'
another reason
3) he wants to 'do right by' Coby, Ayo, and Vuc
I agree, we can't know (at least until some info gets leaked or declarations from someone involved), and it is possible (probable) they made mistakes in these trades.
But I can see positives in getting four 2nd round picks for Ayo at this point, for example.
Idk, I guess I'm trying to stay positive, because at least, after years of craving for some trade activity, they are doing just that. And collecting 2nd round picks instead of giving them away for free!
AK is ass and anyone who says this is progress is coping hard.
I am the watcher on the wall for that take
I think it's just KC Johnson (literally PR) and Joe Cowley (figuratively illiterate) so far
Speaking of KC, remember how he said that the trade talks that went nowhere last deadline and last summer were "laying groundwork" for moves this season? Are we seeing the results of that groundwork now?
absolutely not, it was for the summer
I will credit KC and the Chicago media for getting their 'Bulls will be active' prediction true after 4 years
It's better than what they were last week. Any activity, even getting worse, is better than staying the same course and being consistently mediocre. There's been almost nothing fun about this team the past 5 years other than the occasional 10-20 game stretch. At least we can hope that they get lucky.
Saying this is progress does not mean someone must also be saying AKME is not ass.
People say, "Bulls suck. But also don't tank. But also use the players that make up this mediocre suck-y team and turn them into superstars." I don't get it, and people who say that just have no basis in reality.
Pick a direction, any direction does not deserve applause.
Meh. They've been stale and staid the past few years. They're boring, uninteresting, and there's no real reason to follow them as a team.
No matter what happens now, there will be something different. I've run my head into a wall on repeat before. Continuing to do that, it's not fun. If I turn around, sure I might run right into another wall, but I also might do something exciting.
I don't know that I'm "applauding" it and saying "Bravo, great job AKME!" In fact, I think I've tried to be pretty clear I'm NOT doing that. I can still be happy it happened. That doesn't mean you have to be, obviously, but I am. But don't imply I'm applauding this front office.
I think final judgment also has to wait until the deadline. It's a hot mess right now. Not to say the end result won't also be one, but it will be a different story if they flip some of the incoming players and/or the seconds for a more interesting prospect. But right now things just don't make sense. If it comes together into something resembling a plan or at least vague forethought the overall picture might be clearer.
And I guess this is where I am. Things made sense a week ago. They were going to be mediocre and that was 100% the end-goal. That sucked.
Now, the only thing that makes sense is that the team will be different. To me, that's better than what they were.
In my most hopeful of scenarios, this team sucks for the next two years, AKME gets fired, and they get a real executive in who can actually make this team better.
I think the alternative is what Matt has been writing about for the past 2-3 years: AKME just tries to get into the play-in the same thing that happened the past 3 seasons happens the next 3 seasons and AKME is still in charge.
Yup. I mean I had barely been following them since it just wasn't interesting. But we have a few more hours for this picture to come into focus. If it doesn't... well idk. lol.
It's technically progress in that they are at least not eschewing sell trades for their play-in push
It's not really significant progress though, especially if they do cobble together more mediocrity the rest of this season for another 10-20 game stretch
I'm 100% happy in saying it's not significant progress. I haven't disagreed with that at all. But saying it isn't ANY progress, especially after the determinedly staid mediocrity they've been achieving, I just can't agree to that.
It’s not even technically progress, it’s regression.
In practice they depleted their asset base. They added exactly one useful asset, a high 2nd. The rest of the stuff they added are guys they shouldn’t even want or who will be scrounging for an NBA job next year. And they’ve significantly complicated their asset of having cap space this summer.
Did they help their chances to Tank? Sure, but not significantly. More importantly they could have done the same thing just by completing the Vuc trade and sitting Coby and Giddey.
Had they done that, they could maybe have had a quicker turnaround this summer.
Instead, this is the front end of a Magic/Pistons style five year + rebuild. And outside of this year, where their chances would have been the same at a high pick just by being prudent with their assets, they are heading into a couple years where their chances draft sucks and they have no real assets.
Next year is a 20 win team and Giddey will be halfway through his value contract. The logic that led them here will continue to spiral.
I agree they are negative assets now, but get them in our program (a bunch of minutes for guard-obsessed Billy Donovan and doesn't matter if you make playoffs) and they can turn positive. Dillingham and Ivey.
one trade, the Terry-Yabusele deal, is unequivocal asset depletion
What cliche do we want to use here? Rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic? Spinning our wheels? Never mistake activity for achievement? All apply.
can't say 'these second-draft guys like Dillingham and Ivey *are* a strategy' without acknowledging AK regime sucks at player evaluation and development
Because their first-draft evaluations have had a lot of failures, so much so we don't even notice. Terry and Phillips now gone, Pat Williams stuck here. No 2-way guys have popped.
I'd disagree with Will completely. The level of player Coby is exactly the type of player you do not build around. He's Ben Gordon - a good and efficient scorer that can occasionally get hot and be the leading scorer on a really good team - but doesn't really have the juice to carry them game-in, game-out, year-in, year-out, (becuase those guys are perrenial All Stars) and has enough deficiencies on defense that over an entire year, he basically gives as much as he gets. When you're paying market rate, it becomes too expensive.
These are the kind of players that, once you have the superstar, you add them. I mean, he's not even as good as Austin Reaves, and I'd be hesitant to try to build around him without already have LBJ and AD (then Luka) on the team.
White is more representative of the player you use to build around a better player. Have a star, helio-centric star? White is great to complement him and take power off. Have a stud defensive center? They complement each other well.
Yeah, I'm with you. I didn't even really care for him in the beginning and glad he proved me wrong! But he's not a #1.
Yep. I think he is absolutely a valuable player to have on a contending team. I just disagree that it's a player you build around. They're the type you sign on the MLE or that you trade Gabe Vincent for or whatever. They're a missing piece type of player rather than a foundational type
Agreed. Coby's best use is as a sixth man on a good team. This would be like building around Lou Williams.