At this point, if a player has an injury and the Bulls medical staff says you can probably play through, just don't. I swear we have at least one of these exact incidents every season where a player is playing through an injury because the medical staff says they can and then it randomly turns out that their injury was probably worse than expected and they're sidelined for an extended period of time.
In other news, Alex Caruso hasn't been injured for a while and has been logging the majority of his minutes at PF due to Pat and Craig both being out. How much do we want to bet he ends up injured before Craig comes back??
Yep, I will be genuinely surprised if at least two of the three of DeMar, Coby and AC don't miss at least a several games a piece over the remainder of the season.
Don't care much about this years record though a crash dive would be not good. PW's contract I do worry about. Ideally you'd underpay him like Coby and even Ayo. That would be a big plus. But unless we see more out of him, especially post Lavine trade, it would probably be better to jump ship on him. Lots of critical decisions for a FO that seems to not have a clue about what the team's got or what it needs.
Was Ayo's contract an underpay? I thought everyone thought he'd basically get just above the minimum until AK swooped in and signed him for $21 million. Not saying it was necessarily an overpay, but it also seemed like he likely would have signed for less, which makes it kind of hard to argue it was an underpay. Coby on the other hand was definitely an underpay.
Back on topic though, I think it'll be hard to underpay Pat. His archetype is highly sought after in the NBA even if he hasn't particularly impressed over his first several seasons in the league. If a team can teach him how to dribble, he immediately becomes a 15 ppg scorer who can guard several positions.
Many teams would happily pay him with the hope they can unlock his untapped potential. If AK offers him a three year $45 million deal, I would be incredibly surprised if another team didn't offer him significantly more.
Agree on the Pat assessment. An underpay would really help with roster construction. He's just such an enigma.
On Ayo I also agree in overpay at the time but looking forward I think he's overproducing on a now cheap cost controlled contract. A similar arc to a Caruso IMO though I'm a former IllinI And a big Ayo fan so not all might agree 😀
Nah, I definitely agree about Ayo. I think his contract will go down as being a good contract for the Bulls, but when looking at it strictly from what it seemed other teams were willing to pay last summer, it seems like AK offered considerably more for really no reason.
Same goes for Vooch. There seemed to be hardly any talk of interest in him this past summer and then one of the beat reporters (KC maybe?) said he was coming back on a "hometown discount" only for us to find out he was coming back for $20 million a year somehow...
I mean with Ayo people thought he was going to play his way off the team ala Asik because of his rookie season - since he took a bit of a downturn last year it sorta then felt like an overpay, but I feel like it was recognizing that he was probably going to bounce back, without it being too ridiculous of a contract.
I think that's the tough thing though. Sure, I think AK believed Ayo would live up to a $21 million contract. I did too. But if the market says he's worth two years and maybe $10 million, does that mean you should give him three at $21? I guess I don't really know.
It depends right. In this case, it wasn't purely on potential, since he had played well as a rookie, even if he slumped a bit. He's also a hard worker and maybe they were thinking about Jimmy Butler. Idk. I do feel like it's a bit diff than giving a guy beyond market based on potential.
But of course, I'm not advocating just blindly giving money based on past production, like Vuc lol.
I disagree, there's a very limited set of circumstances in which Pat Williams getting (let's say) $20 million/year is harmful. With Zach going out none of them seem very likely.
Most (competing!) NBA teams can afford two veteran max ($40m+) salaries, the Bulls will likely have zero going forward and it doesn't look like anyone on this roster now is going to be a candidate for one. Jerry is worrying about his own money enough for both of us.
If you lose Pat Williams you have to go out and get another Pat Williams, and again that would be through free agency where it seems possible the team will have $0 cap space. I think you SHOULD go out and get as many power-forwardy 3 and D guys as you possibly can, so you have options. But a starting level guy on a team without much firepower is going to cost probably not much less than Pat.
On the merits he's a very good defensive forward who can hit 3s when he actually can get the ball off. The NBA average salary is around $12 million. I don't really care if you're paying a 150% premium for that.
It would be just like the Bulls to give Vuc 3y/$60 mil and scoff at giving Patrick Williams something similar. Wiilliams has improved basically every year (more on defense than offense), and his path, in some ways, looks very similar to Coby's. Same age, same steady improvement from not good to not bad, but no drastic improvement, over the first 4 seasons.
Should one bet on WIlliams having the same leap in his fifth year that White has? Depends on the odds, I guess, but it's not a far-fetched idea, either. He was definitely thought of as "raw" coming into the league (he was a 6th man in college!) and there are plenty of highly thought of legitimate players who are better on their second contract than might have been gleaned from their production during their first.
As you say, the archetype is there, and taking the gamble isn't going to ruin the team if he doesn't make it.
Bulls have a roster spot and won’t go over the tax with a 10-day contract. Lots of ex-nba players in g-league are available (Bazley, Wenyen Gabriel, Skal L, McCaw, Silva, etc). No excuses, Artie!!!
I always rooted for the guy. Never thought he was a bad pick since he spent nearly a decade in the league and they got him with a low pick in a bad draft (the only argument is that the opportunity cost was too high for a player that wasn't on a lot of draft boards but that is splitting hairs). Get that check Tony!
Can't remember if I had ever seen any official reports, but it did always seem like it. Glad he has that clarity now and is trying to make a difference in the lives of others who also have autism (including his own sons). I hope he's able to get signed to hit that 10 year mark. If he was younger, he'd be right up AK's alley - 6'6", long arms, athletic defender, not much offense.
At this point, if a player has an injury and the Bulls medical staff says you can probably play through, just don't. I swear we have at least one of these exact incidents every season where a player is playing through an injury because the medical staff says they can and then it randomly turns out that their injury was probably worse than expected and they're sidelined for an extended period of time.
In other news, Alex Caruso hasn't been injured for a while and has been logging the majority of his minutes at PF due to Pat and Craig both being out. How much do we want to bet he ends up injured before Craig comes back??
in addition to that, both DeRozan and Coby White are like top-5 in minutes played since LaVine's first absence, damnit Thibs!
Yep, I will be genuinely surprised if at least two of the three of DeMar, Coby and AC don't miss at least a several games a piece over the remainder of the season.
I did read that Craig participated in non-contact practice and seems to be progressing? So let's hope no setbacks there lol.
>@KCJHoop
>'Billy Donovan said Torrey Craig is “moving closer and closer to playing.” Won’t play in B2B. So Saturday is first opportunity."
Don't care much about this years record though a crash dive would be not good. PW's contract I do worry about. Ideally you'd underpay him like Coby and even Ayo. That would be a big plus. But unless we see more out of him, especially post Lavine trade, it would probably be better to jump ship on him. Lots of critical decisions for a FO that seems to not have a clue about what the team's got or what it needs.
Was Ayo's contract an underpay? I thought everyone thought he'd basically get just above the minimum until AK swooped in and signed him for $21 million. Not saying it was necessarily an overpay, but it also seemed like he likely would have signed for less, which makes it kind of hard to argue it was an underpay. Coby on the other hand was definitely an underpay.
Back on topic though, I think it'll be hard to underpay Pat. His archetype is highly sought after in the NBA even if he hasn't particularly impressed over his first several seasons in the league. If a team can teach him how to dribble, he immediately becomes a 15 ppg scorer who can guard several positions.
Many teams would happily pay him with the hope they can unlock his untapped potential. If AK offers him a three year $45 million deal, I would be incredibly surprised if another team didn't offer him significantly more.
Agree on the Pat assessment. An underpay would really help with roster construction. He's just such an enigma.
On Ayo I also agree in overpay at the time but looking forward I think he's overproducing on a now cheap cost controlled contract. A similar arc to a Caruso IMO though I'm a former IllinI And a big Ayo fan so not all might agree 😀
Nah, I definitely agree about Ayo. I think his contract will go down as being a good contract for the Bulls, but when looking at it strictly from what it seemed other teams were willing to pay last summer, it seems like AK offered considerably more for really no reason.
Same goes for Vooch. There seemed to be hardly any talk of interest in him this past summer and then one of the beat reporters (KC maybe?) said he was coming back on a "hometown discount" only for us to find out he was coming back for $20 million a year somehow...
I mean with Ayo people thought he was going to play his way off the team ala Asik because of his rookie season - since he took a bit of a downturn last year it sorta then felt like an overpay, but I feel like it was recognizing that he was probably going to bounce back, without it being too ridiculous of a contract.
I think that's the tough thing though. Sure, I think AK believed Ayo would live up to a $21 million contract. I did too. But if the market says he's worth two years and maybe $10 million, does that mean you should give him three at $21? I guess I don't really know.
It depends right. In this case, it wasn't purely on potential, since he had played well as a rookie, even if he slumped a bit. He's also a hard worker and maybe they were thinking about Jimmy Butler. Idk. I do feel like it's a bit diff than giving a guy beyond market based on potential.
But of course, I'm not advocating just blindly giving money based on past production, like Vuc lol.
I disagree, there's a very limited set of circumstances in which Pat Williams getting (let's say) $20 million/year is harmful. With Zach going out none of them seem very likely.
Most (competing!) NBA teams can afford two veteran max ($40m+) salaries, the Bulls will likely have zero going forward and it doesn't look like anyone on this roster now is going to be a candidate for one. Jerry is worrying about his own money enough for both of us.
If you lose Pat Williams you have to go out and get another Pat Williams, and again that would be through free agency where it seems possible the team will have $0 cap space. I think you SHOULD go out and get as many power-forwardy 3 and D guys as you possibly can, so you have options. But a starting level guy on a team without much firepower is going to cost probably not much less than Pat.
On the merits he's a very good defensive forward who can hit 3s when he actually can get the ball off. The NBA average salary is around $12 million. I don't really care if you're paying a 150% premium for that.
It would be just like the Bulls to give Vuc 3y/$60 mil and scoff at giving Patrick Williams something similar. Wiilliams has improved basically every year (more on defense than offense), and his path, in some ways, looks very similar to Coby's. Same age, same steady improvement from not good to not bad, but no drastic improvement, over the first 4 seasons.
Should one bet on WIlliams having the same leap in his fifth year that White has? Depends on the odds, I guess, but it's not a far-fetched idea, either. He was definitely thought of as "raw" coming into the league (he was a 6th man in college!) and there are plenty of highly thought of legitimate players who are better on their second contract than might have been gleaned from their production during their first.
As you say, the archetype is there, and taking the gamble isn't going to ruin the team if he doesn't make it.
I’m still not high on Williams but seeing where the MLE is headed over the length of his next contract I think $20M for him isn’t that bad.
Bulls have a roster spot and won’t go over the tax with a 10-day contract. Lots of ex-nba players in g-league are available (Bazley, Wenyen Gabriel, Skal L, McCaw, Silva, etc). No excuses, Artie!!!
Isn't this what 2-way guys are for? Are they too bad to play 10 min a night for a couple weeks?
Good point. Henri Drell is 6'9" and nearly 24 years old, if not now then cut 'im
and FWIW all the two-ways are available and not on injury report for tonight
Interesting story on Tony Snell: https://sports.yahoo.com/tony-snells-mission-to-return-to-nba-is-bigger-than-just-basketball-142355012.html
Was it reported previously that he is "on the spectrum"? It was news to me but makes sense.
I always rooted for the guy. Never thought he was a bad pick since he spent nearly a decade in the league and they got him with a low pick in a bad draft (the only argument is that the opportunity cost was too high for a player that wasn't on a lot of draft boards but that is splitting hairs). Get that check Tony!
Same. He always seemed like a good dude. I hope gets whatever coverage he needs for his family.
Can't remember if I had ever seen any official reports, but it did always seem like it. Glad he has that clarity now and is trying to make a difference in the lives of others who also have autism (including his own sons). I hope he's able to get signed to hit that 10 year mark. If he was younger, he'd be right up AK's alley - 6'6", long arms, athletic defender, not much offense.