The real sad thing is the majority myths and rationalizations everyone is going to make on the way down are just self-perpetuating.
There's no silver lining here where these guys are going to "develop" or learn "teamwork" in the process of getting curb stomped. Most likely the opposite will happen. Play Matas 30 minutes a game and let him shoot 30% from the field you say?
OK, stop and look at guys who are successful in this league. Did ANY of them start off playing 30mpg and shooting 30%? No, the guys who do that implode and are gone quick. Playing him a bunch is like putting a baby in the middle of a crosswalk.
The rest of this bunch is what they are. Pat, Dalen Terry, Adama Sanogo, Julian Phillips? No meaningful upside.
The guys on this roster that can play will all be long-gone by the time we're good again, if that comes before the massive asteroid destroys everything.
Probably a lot of things wrong with Pat Williams but it definitely didn't help to forcefeed him minutes and even throw him into the starting 5 from Day #1 and make a concerted effort to keep him there, even when he was getting massively outplayed by the 13th guy on the roster. Who just outplayed him again, except for the other team.
The Bulls were really discombobulated on offense and defense. I was expecting at least some Josh Giddey magic. Not sure if it's a lack of coaching or talent. Maybe it's just team jelling etc, but I also think passing lanes are closing up now that teams play 5 on the other 4 and don't guard him at all.
Just to add to this - maybe there isn't a solution given the roster, but I don't love the strategy of putting horrible and unwilling shooters in space.
At the end of the 3rd, Coby White ran into the back court to take the ball away from Giddey. It was awkward as hell. It's the tragedy of this roster that our two best players last year, Coby and Ayo, will be squeezed off the ball by 3 guards that weren't playing last year.
I don't necessarily agree with this. Coby and Ayo are both combo guards. Coby proved last year that he can be a solid point guard, but I think he also proved he's even better when he gets to play off the ball. Same goes for Ayo.
I'd rather Coby and Ayo play off ball where they're better while Giddey plays on ball since he's far better playing on ball than he is playing off of it.
Yeah, I have to agree with Thomas here. Coby brought the ball up the court, but it was DeMar often initiating the offense. A lot of Coby's biggest games last year came from him scoring a ton off of catch and shoots that were created by him not running the offense.
"I'd rather launch Giddey into the sun and let Coby run the offense"
I certainly agree with this, but that's not going to happen. We know Giddey will play a lot because he was basically guaranteed that by AK, so I'm working within that.
You're right about the relative strengths of the players in roles but the problem is their absolute value. Ayo is pretty decent and Giddey sucks. So even though Giddey is a better more creative passer it doesn't matter because he doesn't do anything else
Sure, the best option would be to just play Coby and Ayo and let Giddey ride the bench. I was just operating under the assumption Giddey will be out there because I'm fairly certain AK guaranteed he would be.
One thing I noticed while watching the game last night, and that was also mentioned on the Cash Considerations podcast after the game, was that Giddey played off the ball a lot. I suppose this is to be expected since Coby and Zach need to get their touches on ball. Well, Coby probably does but Zach doesn't. He thinks he does though.
Anyway, I guess I still have a problem with this. Not so much because Giddey is truly amazing with the ball in his hands - he's at least decent. But when he's off ball, he's absolutely terrible and probably just shouldn't be on the floor.
This is a problem that I'm not sure can be solved while Zach is on the team. Zach is the one out of those three guys who just shouldn't ever have the ball in his hands making plays, but he's also probably the one who is most adamant about getting his touches.
Playing off the ball is the negative space of basketball. I think to be a good basketball player, what you do without the ball in your hands might be a more valuable thing than what you do with it.
The Bulls are filled with guys who, frankly, are terrible basketball players when they're not getting touches. Zach and Giddey are near the bottom. Coby is the better off-ball player but he'd middling at it.
Vuc sets pretty good screens and would be a good off-ball player if he could shoot, but since he can't, he isn't.
Anyway, the point is it's a skill just like everything else. When we say a guy can't play without the ball in his hands, I think we're saying he basically sucks.
I'll give an example of this. DeRozan... obviously not a great shooter, but I'd argue despite that, he is, in many ways, a better off ball player than Zach. I kind of noticed this last year. DeRozan would actually run around and set up for those wonky catch and shoot 3s. Somehow, he took 3.1 catch and shoots per game last year. Zach took... 2.4.
What I'm driving at there is not to say DeMar is great off the ball. He's not. But what I'm saying is he's skilled in the sense that he knows what he's supposed to do and how to play off the ball. He's a good player because he knows how to play. Zach, despite being a very skilled player, is a fucking bonehead.
It’s kind of a product of the modern game. “Playing off ball” by default means “stand around the 3pt line.” That’s the baseline for the average player, but then AK gets the ones who aren’t catch and shoot threats for whatever reason.
"When we say a guy can't play without the ball in his hands, I think we're saying he basically sucks."
Totally agree. I think my point was basically that Giddey sucks the least when the ball is in his hands, whereas Zach and especially Coby are at least okay off ball. Zach may not be great off ball, but he's certainly better than he is on ball.
This is basically rearranging chairs on a sinking ship, but my point was to say that if Giddey is going to be on the floor, the ball should probably be in his hands where he's best (still bad). Especially when the area he's best is also Zach's worst.
I assumed Thomas was talking about trading Caruso for Giddey. The fact that "trading your best player 30 or under for one of the worst starters in the nba" could be interpreted multiple ways for this squad just underscores how bad the situation is.
yeah that was my idea but also wendell and 2 lottery picks for vuc hurts (thought tbh, the picks hurt more than Wendell he's like a below average starter. Lauri I haven't seen him have a good season for a team trying to win yet so I'm actually not that sad about his scoring numbers in Utah. Zach can give you that too
I had assumed that as well; just having a little fun at the expense of the front office and their series of boneheaded trades since taking over for GarPax.
Unlike Thomas - I am still salty on the Lauri trade and the minimal return for it.
Donovan in mid-season form discussing playing time in the abstract like it's not something he directly controls:
“I think we’ve got to help Matas in situations, just to try to get his feet wet, give him experience, let him go and play. There is a log jam there, quite honestly…so there’s going to have to be some sacrifice.”
Doesn't line up with logic, but could line up with AK. We haven't heard from AK that this is a rebuild, in fact all he offers, non-committal at best, is the opposite
If there's a position on this team that doesn't have a log jam, it's the power forward spot. After Pat (who already isn't that good) it's basically Buzelis and Craig and it seems like Billy isn't wanting to play Craig.
Billy played 11 in the first half which seemed excessive, I'm not sure anything would have been better had he played 12 or 13. Buzelis got his small little window in his first NBA game (in which he very much looked like he had butterflies on the court and that was probably even more obvious to the coaching staff). Which is better than nothing but people are still complaining.
Just top many guys! I do see a disconnect in front office communication if Terry isn't one of the top 11 (he may play in games Lonzo sits?) yet they picked up his $4M option for 2025-26
Filling the 15th roster spot with THT doesn't make a lot of sense. He doesn't do anything that other players on the roster can't, there's so much game tape on him that I don't think they're "looking for something," and they're cheap. Most teams aren't filling the 15th roster spot to save a few bucks, why would the Bulls?
He's a Chicago guy but they already have a Chicago guy playing the same position, and that one is actually (well kinda) fun to watch.
If they anticipate making trades, wouldn't you err on the side of only carrying 14? I mean you can even carry 13 for a few weeks before you get fined. Especially if your trade will involve moving a guy whose salary is so high that there are few 1-for-1 trades you can make for him, and fewer you can make by bundling him with another player.
Yes it doesn't make sense for a cheap team that for once doesn't have perma-injured guys clogging up the roster. They will need roster spots if they do trade LaVine, and maybe someone they get in return will be 14th man level. I'm assuming THT is non-guaranteed so they're not out too much if they cut him, but still every million counts
It definitely is. He was really bad either way, but knowing one is for the game and the other is normalized to 100 possessions is very different. That's like listing a guy's per 36 numbers as his actual stats when he only plays 25 minutes a game and then saying it's not really a big deal.
Prepare for this to be a trend. Lonzo sort of floats around out there at mid-speed as if stuck in a second gear, kind like an old Rec Center veteran who can see the game happening before it happens but who can't jump high enough to touch the bottom of the net with his fingertips. That profile description isn't usually lent to a team's best overall basketball player, and yet. We chart a brave new path forward, fourteen minutes at a time.
This season is effectively a math problem no one asked for in the form of Zach Lavine's trade return. We shouldn't be here right now but are. And the question is what kind of value are the Bulls going to eventually attach to a Zach LaVine trade/dump?
Do you have a good way to see the lineups? Someone mentioned Giddey + Vuc was really bad against the P&R. I'm curious if there was a significant difference for Giddey depending on who else was on the court.
Pick year, team, and then whichever players you want to compare. But be aware interpreting the matrix gets exponentially harder with more players. I've never found >3 actually useful personally. Also be aware of low minutes played. I hate Giddey so I'm being a little unfair. You really need ~200 minutes played to have a good sample size
Fr though this is the first season I refuse to call myself a bulls fan. Giddey is absolutely god awful and has a picture of him in bed with a 16 year old. I can deal with the team being an undead cash cow only making the playoffs for the benefit of the greediest asshole in the world, but employing a pedophile and people who pull out their dicks is a new, rock bottom low that I did not expect coming. I sincerely expect Reinsdorf to pull Wander Franco out of jail to play for the White Sox next year. There are no words to describe how nefarious this organization is. The Bulls exist to siphon money out of ignorant people’s pockets and now they will employ the lowest of the low to do so even though they are also bad at basketball. The mixture of incompetence and stupidity combined with a total lack of morality should be too much for any person to handle
This team is dogshit in every possible way. I sincerely hope they go 0-82 and get the 5th pick. I hope every conceivable thing goes wrong for them. Anyone who willingly watches this shit is a fool.
I for one will un-rec this post. It's OK and perfectly fair based on some of his play this game to criticize Giddey for basketball reasons. It's another to spew awful and wrong to boot accusations at some public figure while you're hiding behind your computer/phone.
I think the thousands of fans jeering and mocking him in outré places where he has no history like New Orleans is a bigger problem than a (new?) Mike on BaB.
Giddey has not commented, as far as I know, except to say he won't comment. The police didn't say it was a hoax, they said they "can't corroborate criminal activity." Chris Andersen, who looked like an '80s biker film villain and had previously been banned for "drugs of abuse," took the same approach when he faced these accusations. Had he come forward and said "I didnt do it, I was catfished by a shut-in in rural Canada who has been manipulating a dozen minor celebrities for years," probably no one would have believed him. That was actually the truth, though. Maybe Giddey's case is as convoluted as that and nobody would believe anything he said, even it was the truth. If not, he's not under any obligation to explain, but it would probably help?
Barring that it seems like he's still going to get it, I find it unbelievable the average Pelicans fan even knows who he is.
I'm also going to joke about it if I think it's funny.
-Lonzo’s injuries have absolutely destroyed his defense. He could not stay in front of his guy. Not the same guy. Sucks to see 😣
-Zach did his usual disappearing act in the 2nd half. I hate that this is his 7th year(?) as a Bull.
-Vooch is a funny guy.
-Julian Phillips is better than Pat.
-Giddey is 2” taller than the average NBA player.
-Coby looking like year 1-2 Coby. All that work on his ball handling/play making only to be made into an off-ball guard once again. Sorry man, hard work/improvement is not rewarded around here.
-Ayo played.
-Smith was solid 👍🏻
-Billy looked happy in the first half for the briefest of moments. Returned to facepalm Billy in the 2nd half.
-The after show needs Will Purdue back. The current vibe is a depressed resigned Goff/Gill shillfest with a “it is what it is” attitude. It stinks 😑
Will Perdue was on some post-game CHUGGO podcast with two total fucking idiots screaming in sports talk radio-style and I have never seen a man look more uncomfortable.
I watched for like 10 minutes, the guy on the left is screaming like some radio knob to bench Pat Williams after one game, the guy in the middle just shouts random non-sequiturs like a bit character in an Ice Cube comedy from 1997 and Will Perdue is thinking man, I used to have a dressing room, I used to be somebody. The other two should be selling plasma for a living and probably are, for Perdue this seems really sad.
Matt and Dave (the two non-Perdue hosts) may not be for everybody, but I think they’re better than the show reflected yesterday. They’ve been covering this team for years and are some of the only people with a relatively large local podcast platform (outside of Cash Considerations) who consistently call this team out (especially Matt).
Perdue is just a weird fit for that show. They’re interested in high energy, discussing takes, and quickly interacting with fan comments, but Perdue is sitting there in his dad jeans and giving his typical 2 minute long tangents that aren’t really that deep when you think about it. And it makes Matt and Dave look bad in comparison, because their energy is the complete opposite.
To back up his take that Pat Williams should be benched after one game, guy on the left made them guess how many games it took for Donovan to bench Pat Williams last year. Guy in the middle said "4." Will Perdue said "6." The answer was 5. And the guy in the middle said "I was closer." I've never seen it before and I don't plan to again so I'll take your word for it that they're better than this but they did a very convincing portrayal of mid-wit fucking morons.
I’ve listened/watched a lot of their past shows and I’ll say this: they definitely like to act silly and perform bits, but it usually comes across more natural than it did yesterday.
Perdue’s presence made them seem more uncomfortable. It was like trying to goof off with your friends when your dad’s in the room.
I’m not sure why Perdue wants to be on that show. He played in the league for a dozen years and had a network job for a while. He doesn’t need money, does he? You could argue he just likes to talk about basketball, but THIS team? It just doesn’t make sense to me.
In fairness, that's a decent way to make the point that he's not just calling for Pat to be benched after one game. He's calling for it after 214 regular season games
I think this team has just totally broken Matt Peck’s spirit and he now has to do this to keep on living. To be fair it’s why I still read Blog a Bull. Only hate remains.
I’m not sure everyone realizes how crazy CHGO is for their creators.
For example, the CHGO Bulls show has released 17 podcast episodes just this month. Each of them are at least about an hour long. And since the Bulls play 4 more games this month, that means they’ll have at least 4 more episodes.
So that means that the CHGO Bulls crew will have created around 25 hours of content JUST FOR THIS MONTH to talk about this awful team. And that’s not including whatever prep work they do and, you know, actually having to watch every minute of every Bulls game.
Imagine dedicating that much time in your life to watching and discussing this team. I’d give crazy ad reads and yell pop culture references too.
I flirted with this kind of thing many years ago, and it's only gotten worse.
My advice to whomever is doing it is to stop unless you really just do it for fun (which would eliminate most every commentator about the Bulls). Unless you're like, 1 in a million good/connected, your fandom is a hobby and not a career. What it took for guys like Nate Duncan that are established and started the "industry" to succeed is not what it will take you to succeed. Because when he did it, or when Matt did it, no one was established in that way. Now, to do it you're fighting up a really steep hill.
Yeah I just can’t see how the ALLCITY Network method stays fun.
Think about this: the Cubs haven’t played a game since September 29th, yet CHGO Cubs have released 18 episodes this October. Who is that for? I love the Cubs and even I don’t want to listen to almost 20 hours of Cubs content when they have nothing going on.
additionally it's a different ecosystem out there now with the downfall of Twitter. It's cringeworthy when they plead for follows, but it's probably still very necessary even if greatly diminished in terms of bringing eyeballs
I have little idea what their numbers, and revenue, are.
Of course it's ridiculous to do a 5 days a week Chicago Bulls podcast in August, but that's what they were doing. Perhaps the advertising is tied to consistent volume?
I do think there is a coverage gap they can fill by providing pre and post-game. It was kind of disheartening that they sold ads to CHSN to promote a product that takes away from them. They should instead be leaning in to how official coverage has let us down so they are providing a fan service
And there's benefit to having Gottlieb do beat reporting, which I pay for. I wish my subscription meant ads would be cut out of the podcasts! they'd be merely 35 minute episodes. But again I don't know the economics of that.
Perdue had an iffy take where he inferred that trading LaVine could be bad for the state of the team, because the players could start thinking that the front office has different goals than the team does.
That could have led to a good discussion where someone could have replied “Listen, the team seems to have been able to move on from losing DeRozan and Caruso who were actual leaders and impacted winning, so they can surely move on from losing a guy who already requested a trade.”
But instead, Matt and Dave just went “Eh” and moved on, which seemed like they were worried about disagreeing with him. Perdue is bringing tv network energy to a fan interactive podcast environment, which is just a bad fit.
Agreed. Like that fit with Matt and Dave and Will is somewhat reminiscent of the Chicago Bulls fitting together on a basketball court. Which is to say I don't understand it and I'm not going to watch it.
I mentioned Lonzo's lack of lateral quickness in the game thread yesterday. I don't know if that's something that may come back the more he plays or if it's just gone forever. Even if it is though, he's such a high IQ player that he'll still be able to make a solid impact on D. He may just not be able to be the lockdown point-of-attack defender he once was.
"You sure you guys don't want a draft pick? We have like a million of them. Hell, we can't even pay all of the salaries that are guaranteed by these picks! You're absolutely sure ??? Alright ..."
Something I think is interesting that you can do now is to look at NBA.com's stats and see a real defensive box score and derive some basic observations.
Like:
The Pelicans targeted the shit out of Giddey. He is noted as defending 20 shots last night (19% of the total). Pelicans shot against Giddey 19%, Vuc 17%, Ayo 13%, Coby and Zach 11% each, and Smith 10%.
If you think in terms of defensive matchups, the Bulls would like Ayo guarding everyone they can. They'd probably like Vuc defending fewer shots even though typically you want your center defending a lot.
I'd say this is the recipe for attacking the Bulls. Go right at Giddey and Vuc. They're the weak spots.
The Bulls... I find it interesting that they went right at Missi. It's his first game as a pro, and he defended 19 shots in just under 23 minutes. But he did it pretty well, and he looked like he's gonna be a solid defensive big. Missi 20%, Theis 13%, Hawkins 11%, Murray 11%, Ingram 10%, CJ McCollumn 9%.
I'd assume the obvious guys the Bulls would try to target are CJ and Hawkins, but the Bulls didn't seem to manage to do anything to generate a particular number of shots against them the way the Pelicans managed to target Giddey.
Bottom line, it's gonna be a long season. The Bulls offense might not be very good at targeting bad defenders. Defensively, they've got a lot of bad defenders, and it's hard to see how the Bulls will protect them
These are really insightful. Thanks for sharing. It's crazy that the Pelicans clearly targeted our two worst defenders while the Bulls shot most of their shots against two of the Pelicans' best defenders and barely targeted their worst defender, McCollum.
Just the stats -> Players > Defense Dashboard and then filter by team and or date. To get anything more advanced you have scrape it and match it up to minutes played and stuff. Which i always mean to get around to but never do
Saw a breakdown on twitter where the thrust was the pels offense was a flow chart. Am I guarded by Pat Will? Get a switch. Am I not guarded by Pat Will? Drive.
The real sad thing is the majority myths and rationalizations everyone is going to make on the way down are just self-perpetuating.
There's no silver lining here where these guys are going to "develop" or learn "teamwork" in the process of getting curb stomped. Most likely the opposite will happen. Play Matas 30 minutes a game and let him shoot 30% from the field you say?
OK, stop and look at guys who are successful in this league. Did ANY of them start off playing 30mpg and shooting 30%? No, the guys who do that implode and are gone quick. Playing him a bunch is like putting a baby in the middle of a crosswalk.
The rest of this bunch is what they are. Pat, Dalen Terry, Adama Sanogo, Julian Phillips? No meaningful upside.
The guys on this roster that can play will all be long-gone by the time we're good again, if that comes before the massive asteroid destroys everything.
Probably a lot of things wrong with Pat Williams but it definitely didn't help to forcefeed him minutes and even throw him into the starting 5 from Day #1 and make a concerted effort to keep him there, even when he was getting massively outplayed by the 13th guy on the roster. Who just outplayed him again, except for the other team.
I think there’s a middle ground for this.
Should Matas be playing 30 mpg this season? No.
Should he be getting less minutes than THT? No.
Not sure why THT was so early in the rotation and then we didn't see him until garbage time. That was weird, especially given the guard logjam.
Even weirder it wasn't a game where he could move ticket sales
Now now, Bezos won't destroy everything. Just most things.
The Bulls were really discombobulated on offense and defense. I was expecting at least some Josh Giddey magic. Not sure if it's a lack of coaching or talent. Maybe it's just team jelling etc, but I also think passing lanes are closing up now that teams play 5 on the other 4 and don't guard him at all.
Just to add to this - maybe there isn't a solution given the roster, but I don't love the strategy of putting horrible and unwilling shooters in space.
There's no Vuc replacement so we're stuck 4on5 already. Add Giddey and it's more like 3on5
Add Pat and it's...
Guys I’m starting to think they’re not very good…
At the end of the 3rd, Coby White ran into the back court to take the ball away from Giddey. It was awkward as hell. It's the tragedy of this roster that our two best players last year, Coby and Ayo, will be squeezed off the ball by 3 guards that weren't playing last year.
I don't necessarily agree with this. Coby and Ayo are both combo guards. Coby proved last year that he can be a solid point guard, but I think he also proved he's even better when he gets to play off the ball. Same goes for Ayo.
I'd rather Coby and Ayo play off ball where they're better while Giddey plays on ball since he's far better playing on ball than he is playing off of it.
I don't see this at all. By far the best stretch of Coby's career was as the lead guard last season.
I'd rather launch Giddey into the sun and let Coby run the offense
he wasn't really the lead guard, Demar was
Yeah, I have to agree with Thomas here. Coby brought the ball up the court, but it was DeMar often initiating the offense. A lot of Coby's biggest games last year came from him scoring a ton off of catch and shoots that were created by him not running the offense.
"I'd rather launch Giddey into the sun and let Coby run the offense"
I certainly agree with this, but that's not going to happen. We know Giddey will play a lot because he was basically guaranteed that by AK, so I'm working within that.
If we had a 3 guard rotation, I think I'd be OK with Coby/Ayo spending a proportional amount of time off ball, but we have a 5 guard rotation.
You're right about the relative strengths of the players in roles but the problem is their absolute value. Ayo is pretty decent and Giddey sucks. So even though Giddey is a better more creative passer it doesn't matter because he doesn't do anything else
Sure, the best option would be to just play Coby and Ayo and let Giddey ride the bench. I was just operating under the assumption Giddey will be out there because I'm fairly certain AK guaranteed he would be.
I noticed that too, Coby misread the situation thinking it was last possession(?), so he instead blew the 2-for-1 and the 1 wasn't a good possession
A team that can’t defend, can’t make threes, can’t take care of the ball, can’t develop young players, and can’t be viewed by the fans.
This season might be the Bulls’ masterpiece.
One thing I noticed while watching the game last night, and that was also mentioned on the Cash Considerations podcast after the game, was that Giddey played off the ball a lot. I suppose this is to be expected since Coby and Zach need to get their touches on ball. Well, Coby probably does but Zach doesn't. He thinks he does though.
Anyway, I guess I still have a problem with this. Not so much because Giddey is truly amazing with the ball in his hands - he's at least decent. But when he's off ball, he's absolutely terrible and probably just shouldn't be on the floor.
This is a problem that I'm not sure can be solved while Zach is on the team. Zach is the one out of those three guys who just shouldn't ever have the ball in his hands making plays, but he's also probably the one who is most adamant about getting his touches.
Good luck, Billy.
Billy doesn't need luck, he has a contract.
Playing off the ball is the negative space of basketball. I think to be a good basketball player, what you do without the ball in your hands might be a more valuable thing than what you do with it.
The Bulls are filled with guys who, frankly, are terrible basketball players when they're not getting touches. Zach and Giddey are near the bottom. Coby is the better off-ball player but he'd middling at it.
Vuc sets pretty good screens and would be a good off-ball player if he could shoot, but since he can't, he isn't.
Anyway, the point is it's a skill just like everything else. When we say a guy can't play without the ball in his hands, I think we're saying he basically sucks.
I'll give an example of this. DeRozan... obviously not a great shooter, but I'd argue despite that, he is, in many ways, a better off ball player than Zach. I kind of noticed this last year. DeRozan would actually run around and set up for those wonky catch and shoot 3s. Somehow, he took 3.1 catch and shoots per game last year. Zach took... 2.4.
What I'm driving at there is not to say DeMar is great off the ball. He's not. But what I'm saying is he's skilled in the sense that he knows what he's supposed to do and how to play off the ball. He's a good player because he knows how to play. Zach, despite being a very skilled player, is a fucking bonehead.
Zach knows how to play he just doesn't because he sees the team as losers. When he and Zo play together you see it still
It’s kind of a product of the modern game. “Playing off ball” by default means “stand around the 3pt line.” That’s the baseline for the average player, but then AK gets the ones who aren’t catch and shoot threats for whatever reason.
"When we say a guy can't play without the ball in his hands, I think we're saying he basically sucks."
Totally agree. I think my point was basically that Giddey sucks the least when the ball is in his hands, whereas Zach and especially Coby are at least okay off ball. Zach may not be great off ball, but he's certainly better than he is on ball.
This is basically rearranging chairs on a sinking ship, but my point was to say that if Giddey is going to be on the floor, the ball should probably be in his hands where he's best (still bad). Especially when the area he's best is also Zach's worst.
Can we trade Zach and Vucevic yet?
It's only one meanless game outside our conference and I can see Bulls winning the next time Pelicans pay their visit back to the United Center.
Far from a guarantee. Not that they'd do better at home, but whether you can see it.
This roster is a disaster and will be for a while. There’s not much the Bulls can do to get better in the short term.
that will happen when you trade your best player 30 or under for one of the worst starters in the nba
Was that the Lauri trade or the Wendell trade? Either way, that was a long time ago and they should be over it by now...
I assumed Thomas was talking about trading Caruso for Giddey. The fact that "trading your best player 30 or under for one of the worst starters in the nba" could be interpreted multiple ways for this squad just underscores how bad the situation is.
yeah that was my idea but also wendell and 2 lottery picks for vuc hurts (thought tbh, the picks hurt more than Wendell he's like a below average starter. Lauri I haven't seen him have a good season for a team trying to win yet so I'm actually not that sad about his scoring numbers in Utah. Zach can give you that too
I would kill for a below average starter right now.
Easy, killer!
Why? We have like 4 of em
I had assumed that as well; just having a little fun at the expense of the front office and their series of boneheaded trades since taking over for GarPax.
Unlike Thomas - I am still salty on the Lauri trade and the minimal return for it.
Donovan in mid-season form discussing playing time in the abstract like it's not something he directly controls:
“I think we’ve got to help Matas in situations, just to try to get his feet wet, give him experience, let him go and play. There is a log jam there, quite honestly…so there’s going to have to be some sacrifice.”
AK keeps insisting he and Donovan are in lockstep about the roster and their plans for the team, and Donovan keeps saying stuff that doesn’t line up…
Doesn't line up with logic, but could line up with AK. We haven't heard from AK that this is a rebuild, in fact all he offers, non-committal at best, is the opposite
If there's a position on this team that doesn't have a log jam, it's the power forward spot. After Pat (who already isn't that good) it's basically Buzelis and Craig and it seems like Billy isn't wanting to play Craig.
not sure why Dalen is DNP either. He sort of looked ok late last year
Billy played 11 in the first half which seemed excessive, I'm not sure anything would have been better had he played 12 or 13. Buzelis got his small little window in his first NBA game (in which he very much looked like he had butterflies on the court and that was probably even more obvious to the coaching staff). Which is better than nothing but people are still complaining.
Just top many guys! I do see a disconnect in front office communication if Terry isn't one of the top 11 (he may play in games Lonzo sits?) yet they picked up his $4M option for 2025-26
Filling the 15th roster spot with THT doesn't make a lot of sense. He doesn't do anything that other players on the roster can't, there's so much game tape on him that I don't think they're "looking for something," and they're cheap. Most teams aren't filling the 15th roster spot to save a few bucks, why would the Bulls?
https://www.spotrac.com/news/_/id/2487/the-nbas-vanishing-15th-roster-spot
He's a Chicago guy but they already have a Chicago guy playing the same position, and that one is actually (well kinda) fun to watch.
If they anticipate making trades, wouldn't you err on the side of only carrying 14? I mean you can even carry 13 for a few weeks before you get fined. Especially if your trade will involve moving a guy whose salary is so high that there are few 1-for-1 trades you can make for him, and fewer you can make by bundling him with another player.
Nothing these guys do makes any sense.
Yes it doesn't make sense for a cheap team that for once doesn't have perma-injured guys clogging up the roster. They will need roster spots if they do trade LaVine, and maybe someone they get in return will be 14th man level. I'm assuming THT is non-guaranteed so they're not out too much if they cut him, but still every million counts
Give it time, I'm sure the season ending injuries will swoop in just in time for AK to justify not doing anything at the trade deadline.
The Bulls were -34 during Giddey minutes and +27 when he sat lmao
https://imgur.com/OlAHvEa
Whoa. He looked like a zero out there, but didn't realize it was that bad. Gonna need to dust off that Marquis Teague tank commander meme for Giddey.
The boxscore has him at -22. The -34 number is normalized to 100 possessions, Giddey wasn't on the court for 100 possessions.
Not sure that's a super meaningful distinction.
eh maybe not, but they are two different numbers and I wanted to explain the difference.
I should have said per 100 or rting but it's still wild
It definitely is. He was really bad either way, but knowing one is for the game and the other is normalized to 100 possessions is very different. That's like listing a guy's per 36 numbers as his actual stats when he only plays 25 minutes a game and then saying it's not really a big deal.
It would be funny if NBA writers did this with other stats too. "In a 6 minute stretch in the 4th quarter, Sabonis grabbed 24 rebounds (per36)."
Ooof. I'm higher on Giddey than most here, but that is bad.
So that is bad, right?
How did they do during Lonzo's minutes?
Lonzo was +4 in 14 minutes. He was the only starter/former starter in positive numbers. I don't know what the lineups were, though.
Prepare for this to be a trend. Lonzo sort of floats around out there at mid-speed as if stuck in a second gear, kind like an old Rec Center veteran who can see the game happening before it happens but who can't jump high enough to touch the bottom of the net with his fingertips. That profile description isn't usually lent to a team's best overall basketball player, and yet. We chart a brave new path forward, fourteen minutes at a time.
This season is effectively a math problem no one asked for in the form of Zach Lavine's trade return. We shouldn't be here right now but are. And the question is what kind of value are the Bulls going to eventually attach to a Zach LaVine trade/dump?
Who knows? The possibilities are endless.
every non Giddey minute was a Lonzo minute
@JeffGurt
14 mins in 1 game is a small sample size, but two different teams last night for the Bulls:
With Lonzo (14 mins)
53.6% FG
11 assists on 15 baskets
50% 3pt (7/14)
Without Lonzo (34 mins)
46.6% FG
15 assists on 27 baskets
15% 3pt (3/20)
Do you have a good way to see the lineups? Someone mentioned Giddey + Vuc was really bad against the P&R. I'm curious if there was a significant difference for Giddey depending on who else was on the court.
https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba
Pick year, team, and then whichever players you want to compare. But be aware interpreting the matrix gets exponentially harder with more players. I've never found >3 actually useful personally. Also be aware of low minutes played. I hate Giddey so I'm being a little unfair. You really need ~200 minutes played to have a good sample size
Thanks. I'm going to poke around on that a bit.
matches the eye test
Dejounte Murray did all that to our starting guards with a broken hand.
"sicko" Stephen Noh clipped all the Giddey usage
https://www.reddit.com/r/chicagobulls/s/KCsiyjQ2aR
He gets his shot blocked a lot.
Josh Giddey bulls debut ❗️❗️❗️
14 points 🥵🥵
50% true shooting 🥶🥶🥶
1:1 assist to turnover ratio 🔥🔥
Lowest +/- on the team ✅✅✅
Bulls future on the come up❓⁉️❓
Fr though this is the first season I refuse to call myself a bulls fan. Giddey is absolutely god awful and has a picture of him in bed with a 16 year old. I can deal with the team being an undead cash cow only making the playoffs for the benefit of the greediest asshole in the world, but employing a pedophile and people who pull out their dicks is a new, rock bottom low that I did not expect coming. I sincerely expect Reinsdorf to pull Wander Franco out of jail to play for the White Sox next year. There are no words to describe how nefarious this organization is. The Bulls exist to siphon money out of ignorant people’s pockets and now they will employ the lowest of the low to do so even though they are also bad at basketball. The mixture of incompetence and stupidity combined with a total lack of morality should be too much for any person to handle
This team is dogshit in every possible way. I sincerely hope they go 0-82 and get the 5th pick. I hope every conceivable thing goes wrong for them. Anyone who willingly watches this shit is a fool.
I for one will un-rec this post. It's OK and perfectly fair based on some of his play this game to criticize Giddey for basketball reasons. It's another to spew awful and wrong to boot accusations at some public figure while you're hiding behind your computer/phone.
Can we stop with the underage Giddey stuff?
I think the thousands of fans jeering and mocking him in outré places where he has no history like New Orleans is a bigger problem than a (new?) Mike on BaB.
Giddey has not commented, as far as I know, except to say he won't comment. The police didn't say it was a hoax, they said they "can't corroborate criminal activity." Chris Andersen, who looked like an '80s biker film villain and had previously been banned for "drugs of abuse," took the same approach when he faced these accusations. Had he come forward and said "I didnt do it, I was catfished by a shut-in in rural Canada who has been manipulating a dozen minor celebrities for years," probably no one would have believed him. That was actually the truth, though. Maybe Giddey's case is as convoluted as that and nobody would believe anything he said, even it was the truth. If not, he's not under any obligation to explain, but it would probably help?
Barring that it seems like he's still going to get it, I find it unbelievable the average Pelicans fan even knows who he is.
I'm also going to joke about it if I think it's funny.
First impressions:
-Lonzo’s injuries have absolutely destroyed his defense. He could not stay in front of his guy. Not the same guy. Sucks to see 😣
-Zach did his usual disappearing act in the 2nd half. I hate that this is his 7th year(?) as a Bull.
-Vooch is a funny guy.
-Julian Phillips is better than Pat.
-Giddey is 2” taller than the average NBA player.
-Coby looking like year 1-2 Coby. All that work on his ball handling/play making only to be made into an off-ball guard once again. Sorry man, hard work/improvement is not rewarded around here.
-Ayo played.
-Smith was solid 👍🏻
-Billy looked happy in the first half for the briefest of moments. Returned to facepalm Billy in the 2nd half.
-The after show needs Will Purdue back. The current vibe is a depressed resigned Goff/Gill shillfest with a “it is what it is” attitude. It stinks 😑
Will Perdue was on some post-game CHUGGO podcast with two total fucking idiots screaming in sports talk radio-style and I have never seen a man look more uncomfortable.
https://i.imgur.com/47duel0.png
“Why am I here. Why are any of us here?”
I watched for like 10 minutes, the guy on the left is screaming like some radio knob to bench Pat Williams after one game, the guy in the middle just shouts random non-sequiturs like a bit character in an Ice Cube comedy from 1997 and Will Perdue is thinking man, I used to have a dressing room, I used to be somebody. The other two should be selling plasma for a living and probably are, for Perdue this seems really sad.
Starring this for my future pod power rankings
I didn't think Perdue was that bad, but definite ly puts the "trim silence" feature on my podcast app to work.
Matt and Dave (the two non-Perdue hosts) may not be for everybody, but I think they’re better than the show reflected yesterday. They’ve been covering this team for years and are some of the only people with a relatively large local podcast platform (outside of Cash Considerations) who consistently call this team out (especially Matt).
Perdue is just a weird fit for that show. They’re interested in high energy, discussing takes, and quickly interacting with fan comments, but Perdue is sitting there in his dad jeans and giving his typical 2 minute long tangents that aren’t really that deep when you think about it. And it makes Matt and Dave look bad in comparison, because their energy is the complete opposite.
To back up his take that Pat Williams should be benched after one game, guy on the left made them guess how many games it took for Donovan to bench Pat Williams last year. Guy in the middle said "4." Will Perdue said "6." The answer was 5. And the guy in the middle said "I was closer." I've never seen it before and I don't plan to again so I'll take your word for it that they're better than this but they did a very convincing portrayal of mid-wit fucking morons.
I’ve listened/watched a lot of their past shows and I’ll say this: they definitely like to act silly and perform bits, but it usually comes across more natural than it did yesterday.
Perdue’s presence made them seem more uncomfortable. It was like trying to goof off with your friends when your dad’s in the room.
I’m not sure why Perdue wants to be on that show. He played in the league for a dozen years and had a network job for a while. He doesn’t need money, does he? You could argue he just likes to talk about basketball, but THIS team? It just doesn’t make sense to me.
In fairness, that's a decent way to make the point that he's not just calling for Pat to be benched after one game. He's calling for it after 214 regular season games
I think this team has just totally broken Matt Peck’s spirit and he now has to do this to keep on living. To be fair it’s why I still read Blog a Bull. Only hate remains.
I’m not sure everyone realizes how crazy CHGO is for their creators.
For example, the CHGO Bulls show has released 17 podcast episodes just this month. Each of them are at least about an hour long. And since the Bulls play 4 more games this month, that means they’ll have at least 4 more episodes.
So that means that the CHGO Bulls crew will have created around 25 hours of content JUST FOR THIS MONTH to talk about this awful team. And that’s not including whatever prep work they do and, you know, actually having to watch every minute of every Bulls game.
Imagine dedicating that much time in your life to watching and discussing this team. I’d give crazy ad reads and yell pop culture references too.
I flirted with this kind of thing many years ago, and it's only gotten worse.
My advice to whomever is doing it is to stop unless you really just do it for fun (which would eliminate most every commentator about the Bulls). Unless you're like, 1 in a million good/connected, your fandom is a hobby and not a career. What it took for guys like Nate Duncan that are established and started the "industry" to succeed is not what it will take you to succeed. Because when he did it, or when Matt did it, no one was established in that way. Now, to do it you're fighting up a really steep hill.
also it should be mentioned I didn't succeed, and do it for fun (ego)
Yeah I just can’t see how the ALLCITY Network method stays fun.
Think about this: the Cubs haven’t played a game since September 29th, yet CHGO Cubs have released 18 episodes this October. Who is that for? I love the Cubs and even I don’t want to listen to almost 20 hours of Cubs content when they have nothing going on.
additionally it's a different ecosystem out there now with the downfall of Twitter. It's cringeworthy when they plead for follows, but it's probably still very necessary even if greatly diminished in terms of bringing eyeballs
I have little idea what their numbers, and revenue, are.
Of course it's ridiculous to do a 5 days a week Chicago Bulls podcast in August, but that's what they were doing. Perhaps the advertising is tied to consistent volume?
I do think there is a coverage gap they can fill by providing pre and post-game. It was kind of disheartening that they sold ads to CHSN to promote a product that takes away from them. They should instead be leaning in to how official coverage has let us down so they are providing a fan service
And there's benefit to having Gottlieb do beat reporting, which I pay for. I wish my subscription meant ads would be cut out of the podcasts! they'd be merely 35 minute episodes. But again I don't know the economics of that.
"Billy looked happy in the first half for the briefest of moments. Returned to facepalm Billy in the 2nd half."
We were down by one at the half, after having been competitive in Q1 and winning Q2. For a significantly revamped starting 5, that's not bad.
Getting blown out in the 3rd put a kibosh on that, though.
CHSN didn't put the post-game show up on YouTube. Maybe it cuts costs like jettisoning Perdue.
Of the trio I agree Perdue had the best takes, but also he was bad TV.
Perdue had an iffy take where he inferred that trading LaVine could be bad for the state of the team, because the players could start thinking that the front office has different goals than the team does.
That could have led to a good discussion where someone could have replied “Listen, the team seems to have been able to move on from losing DeRozan and Caruso who were actual leaders and impacted winning, so they can surely move on from losing a guy who already requested a trade.”
But instead, Matt and Dave just went “Eh” and moved on, which seemed like they were worried about disagreeing with him. Perdue is bringing tv network energy to a fan interactive podcast environment, which is just a bad fit.
Agreed. Like that fit with Matt and Dave and Will is somewhat reminiscent of the Chicago Bulls fitting together on a basketball court. Which is to say I don't understand it and I'm not going to watch it.
I mentioned Lonzo's lack of lateral quickness in the game thread yesterday. I don't know if that's something that may come back the more he plays or if it's just gone forever. Even if it is though, he's such a high IQ player that he'll still be able to make a solid impact on D. He may just not be able to be the lockdown point-of-attack defender he once was.
Josh Giddey sucks, and out of all the possible returns for Alex Caruso I can't believe the return was Josh Giddey. He sucks.
"You sure you guys don't want a draft pick? We have like a million of them. Hell, we can't even pay all of the salaries that are guaranteed by these picks! You're absolutely sure ??? Alright ..."
Something I think is interesting that you can do now is to look at NBA.com's stats and see a real defensive box score and derive some basic observations.
Like:
The Pelicans targeted the shit out of Giddey. He is noted as defending 20 shots last night (19% of the total). Pelicans shot against Giddey 19%, Vuc 17%, Ayo 13%, Coby and Zach 11% each, and Smith 10%.
If you think in terms of defensive matchups, the Bulls would like Ayo guarding everyone they can. They'd probably like Vuc defending fewer shots even though typically you want your center defending a lot.
I'd say this is the recipe for attacking the Bulls. Go right at Giddey and Vuc. They're the weak spots.
The Bulls... I find it interesting that they went right at Missi. It's his first game as a pro, and he defended 19 shots in just under 23 minutes. But he did it pretty well, and he looked like he's gonna be a solid defensive big. Missi 20%, Theis 13%, Hawkins 11%, Murray 11%, Ingram 10%, CJ McCollumn 9%.
I'd assume the obvious guys the Bulls would try to target are CJ and Hawkins, but the Bulls didn't seem to manage to do anything to generate a particular number of shots against them the way the Pelicans managed to target Giddey.
Bottom line, it's gonna be a long season. The Bulls offense might not be very good at targeting bad defenders. Defensively, they've got a lot of bad defenders, and it's hard to see how the Bulls will protect them
These are really insightful. Thanks for sharing. It's crazy that the Pelicans clearly targeted our two worst defenders while the Bulls shot most of their shots against two of the Pelicans' best defenders and barely targeted their worst defender, McCollum.
Interesting. Where are you finding this?
Just the stats -> Players > Defense Dashboard and then filter by team and or date. To get anything more advanced you have scrape it and match it up to minutes played and stuff. Which i always mean to get around to but never do
Saw a breakdown on twitter where the thrust was the pels offense was a flow chart. Am I guarded by Pat Will? Get a switch. Am I not guarded by Pat Will? Drive.