It's kinda wild. They've built an entire roster without a #1, #2, or #3. None of the players that make a team good. It's a bunch of fringe starters, rotational fodder, and guys who don't ever need to play in an NBA game.
But good news- last year's late lottery pick and this year's late lottery pick should turn this all around!
feel like the Bulls actually do have a lot of of "decent" players, and that is really helping them right now now. while a lot of teams are dealing with injuries, including the Bulls, they have enough playable guys that they're not just getting totally killed by having to play legit bums. Plus, a number of these guys have something to prove (free agency, playing for a next contract, etc.) and the Bulls as a franchise are clearly emphasizing making the play-in, so they're playing hard and playing lineups to win. Also, some of these guys (Giddey, Jones, Collins) are playing so far out of their ass it's just crazy. Giddey actually has a history of playing really well in Mickey Mouse March (check his last 2 seasons game log), but Jones and Collins in these small sample sizes (aka meaningless) are blowing away their normal career production/impact. And here we are.
Yeah, I've been torn watching this team the past couple of weeks. I've always had a soft spot for teams that don't really have any star power, but just go out and play their hearts out and that's kind of been this Bulls team recently.
But on the other hand, I obviously don't want this team winning games because I don't want them to drop further down the draft standings and I don't want them to give AK any sort of hope that his "plan" is actually working.
I'll also say the WAY they're winning games has been pretty annoying. Obviously they dominated a struggling Pacers team at the end of a road trip without their best player. Okay great. The Raptors, Magic, Heat wins were pretty emblematic of how they've won a lot of games this season: play like shit for 3 quarters and somehow get it together late, other team totally melts down, pull the game out of their ass in the final minute/OT.
Like last season, I've been tracking the clutch stuff pretty closely because they won so many games similarly last year. And once again, there seems to be a lot of smoke and mirrors/luck going on. While the Bulls' overall clutch record (games within 5 points/with 5 minutes left) isn't good, if you dig even deeper you see a team that has an insane record in toss-up games that come down to the final minute, and also that one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA has one of the most clutch defensive teams in the league. Last I checked the Bulls are something like 10-2 in games with a margin of 2 points or under in the final minute of the game, the best record in the league. Given the actual talent level on this team, you'd figure them to be like .500 at best, but sometimes crazy shit happens in these small sample size scenarios. And teams just keep missing shots against the Bulls in the final minutes of these close games, while the Bulls have been getting clutch 3s from Josh Giddey and Tre Jones (two games in a row!).
Between this stuff and Zach/Vooch having like career-best heaters for the first 2-3 months of the season, plus Lonzo playing more/better than expected to start the season, I'd honestly guess the Bulls are like 5 games better than they really should be...and even then they might still get the 10 seed.
Not necessarily. LaVine was a pretty good player (way better than Matt and others wanted to give him credit for), and the type of player that can “get his shot.” He’s not well-rounded, do-everything player who would dribble the ball off his foot if tasked to get a shot up (well….). But anyway, the skill that drives LaVine’s value is his ability to get decent shots on his own. On a team devoid of that, he’ll get a lot of opportunities. LaVine’s not a super star, but I don’t know that there are 30 guys I’d take over him for a last-minute possession.
I’d say the Bulls best remaining player - Coby White - is similar though not as good. The Bulls had what I would consider 3 decent “get your shot” guys in DeRozan, LaVine, and White. It just goes to show how much “clutch” is overrated because if you can’t be good the rest of the game, what’s the point?
Spurs shutting down D'aaron Fox. Probably going to play some 21 year old who sucks. Bulls don't have that downside risk bc they don't have very good players
We're in a war of attrition that we just can't win. Karnisovas has proven that in this age, you can lie about a fact as rigorous as a team's position in the standings and you not only won't be called out on it, but the media will even cover for you if they determine their own precarious employment owes more to you looking good than reporting the fact that a team's chief executive had no idea where his team stood in the standings.
So Tre Jones can be a future asset while on a contract expiring in 30 days and who was earlier replaced by a 39 year old Chris Paul while everyone reacted with "Yup, Chris Paul's an upgrade over Tre Jones for sure."
Zach Collins is an unpolished gem when you can obviously see his role in the NBA is that of the fabled "tall guy on the bench." They can keep making shit up longer than it takes to tell the truth.
Philly, which has about 5x as much talent in street clothes than the Bulls have in the building, is trying like hell to get down to a top 6 pick to save it and have a fair shot at doing so while we're supposed to praise trading away picks for players and then trading away more players to reclaim the pick as a sagacious move.
National commentators talk about our team like North Korea now. The first part of any discussion is a pre-amble debunking the unhinged propaganda about the Next Five Year Plan and then getting into the even more unhinged propaganda about people being fed to lions and executed by anti-aircraft batteries for getting the wrong haircut.
Edit: It'll be down to the wire but by tanking tonight's game vs Toronto in maybe the two worst starting lineups to ever take an NBA court, Philly just moved down to #5, passing Toronto and Brooklyn. They have a much slimmer margin for error than Chicago and are somehow doing it, and didn't give up jack shit to reacquire their own pick.
a shot at local media (which I'm always happy to do), the Chuggo boys are ruminating on how the Bulls aren't valuing draft position, and when told by fans in their chat that draft position may not matter because AK is doing the drafting, Gottlieb was like "well then this whole discussion is meaningless because you have no faith in the front office" YES EXACTLY
Let's agree that superstars are superstars, you need a couple of them, and we have none. No argument there. But when other players show well, there's no need to shit on them. There are bad middle roster players, mid-ones and good ones. Not everyone that's not a #1 or #2 are truly interchangeable. I've been the BIGGEST Giddey-hater, but he's actually an interesting small forward that needs to be broken of his 'point guard' mentality; he'll always have to be covered for defensively, but does a lot of unique things in that role. Coby, Ayo and Matas are all useful, as is Lonzo if he somehow becomes actually healthy in the next two years. Zach Collins shows what a physical presence can add. Tre Jones has a high pedigree and some real toughness and feel. Red Rocket is hit and miss, but shows what a big shooting guard can bring to the mix. All of these guys are better than what Dalen and PW have shown in their gifted playing time. Outplaying your past comps isn't an issue, some of these guys are in better fit/better situation/new roles. In the other direction, you can see Matas's promise but know he's still a ways away. I prefer to trust my eyes more than the stat sheet or the draft slot. We need to clear out Vuc and find a dynamic big and an alpha shooting guard. That's not an easy task. But sometimes, as with the Cavs and Donovan Mitchell, they can come to you in surprising ways.
Do I count on AKME to assemble it and Billy to coach it in an optimized way? No. But sometimes, as is happening now, a group of players can out-play the bench and front-office's incompetence. At least that's a sliver of hope...I'd say realistic, if not overly optimistic.
I agree that superstars are needed, but AK doesn't
And so it wasn't my point to talk about #3 and #4 level players on the roster. Giddey hasn't even proven to be that level, but you can disagree. It's just Coby and Ayo.
I'm mentioning this morass of everyone else as like 5th-10th man, and do think they are interchangeable. And I think we agree on that too, also that Dalen and PW are not interchangeable with that group (because they are firmly below)
superstar: none
'one of 9-10 very good players on a contender': Coby, Ayo (Matas and Giddey potentially)
just a guy: Vuc, Lonzo (given injuries), Jones, Collins, Huerter, Smith (Phillips potentially)
out of rotation, fringe of league: Carter, Terry, THT, PW (given injuries)
What was surprising about how the Cavs got Donovan Mitchell? They traded 3 first round picks, 2 pick swaps, Lauri Markkanen and Collin Sexton for him, basically handing over their draft to the Utah Jazz for the next 5 years starting this June. That's probably the second most "traditional" way to acquire a star, after getting shitty and drafting one.
Yeah, it's nice to see the Bulls playing well for a stretch. Jones, Collins, even Huerter sometimes, look like decent NBA players. Giddey and White are playing lights out.
I get it that if we slide past Orlando or Miami in the standings our chance for a top 4 draft pick gets a little worse, but I want to see if we can keep winning.
A lot of players show out in March when the stakes are super low and a lot of teams have their foot off the gas or are outright tanking so it's not like you're getting the max competition every game. Mirotic used to pull that shit every season. Jalen Green is another guy like that
I dunno whenever a player can't consistently play well until the last 20-25 games of the year, it's super sus.
Oh no, Windhorst (who doesn't know ball, so this is likely coming from someone which may be worse) said that he thinks Giddey is proving to be a starting PG making $30M
Now he didn't play well until now not due to March silly season, but because better players took the ball out of his hands 🙃 he didn't have a featured role until now???
Is it possible that the Reinsdorfs are taking part of some kind of Brewsters Millions scenario where they'll get $10 billion dollars, but only if they spend within 5% of the tax line, make the play-in, and don't make the playoffs?
If any other GM tried to sign Giddey for 5 years and $150 mil (with a player option, natrually) they'd be fired that same day. The Bulls however...
It will be fine yfBb. After we match Giddey at 5/150, you can say what an idiot AK was for not extending him at the beginning of the season, whenhehad the chance.
Since we're doomed to play this damnable Play-In game at least can we can use it for some data?
Does beating up on a hollowed out Miami or crippled Orlando prove anything? Probably not, but I'm still interested if Giddey can hit shots under pressure, or whether coaches will target him on defense when they actually give a shit about the game. And answer the question if Billy will play Matas real minutes in a real game, or just pontificate about it in a post game thesis defense around rookie playing time.
I am thinking not because Coby White had the game of his career against the unserious Atlanta Hawks, and it did not carry over or build momentum in his career
Coby White played great, they added Giddey and LaVine, and Coby didn't have the opportunity anymore. Now we're seeing him back to that 24 Spring form, except with the extra conditioning work from the offseason. He's pushing people around right now.
The Bulls are not going to South Beach for the play-in this year. And no, I'm not saying they won't make the play-in. They are now only 1.5 games behind Miami for 9th place and Miami is clearly trying to lose while the Bulls are not. Gotta get that 9-10 play-in game revenue, baby!!
Five minutes into tonight's game Stacey was losing his mind because somehow Nic Claxton kept getting wide open in the paint. Could it have had to do with Vooch starting, Stacey?? Also, Vooch literally screened Kevin Huerter on the first play of the game leading to Huerter's man getting a wide open layup.
Matas got a whopping 14 minutes tonight and didn't play the final 16 minutes of the game. Bulls got that comeback W though, so it's was all worth it. Matas learned how to win by cheering his teammates on from the bench!
This season has been a parody of Bulls seasons. The CHSN debacle. The bad trades. The terrible press conferences. The refusal to focus on rookie development. The pointless wins.
An unforgettably forgettable parade of nonsense.
And it’s only going to get worse. They’ll continue to win games in March and worsen their lottery standings. They might actually win the play-in tournament this year due to the Heat being truly bad now. They’ll then get blown out by the Cavs in laughable fashion and AK’s response will be “Hey we made the playoffs for the first time in a couple of years. This season was a success!” And the prize for our success will be the 15th overall pick.
AK has cracked the code. In the play-in era, if a bad team with a careless owner never accepts the fact that their team is bad, then they can coast on 30-something wins forever and no one will lose their job.
I mentioned a bunch of this stuff above but we saw it again last night where the Bulls suck for 3 quarters, trail by double digits in the 4th and then come back and win. 3 of the 4 wins in this winning streak they've trailed by 9+ in the 4th, and that Raptors win was 16 and crazy fluke stuff to get it to OT.
I looked it up and during this 4-game winning streak, the Bulls' DRtg is 87.8 in the 4th quarter and opponents are shooting 7/40 (17.5%) from 3. In 14 clutch minutes, they have a 153.3 ORtg, 77.8 DRtg, 75.6 Net Rating (+25 total). Coby/Tre/Huerter have combined to shoot almost 60% in clutch minutes. Even without Giddey last night, it was Jones and Huerter delivering kill shot after kill shot.
Jones is playing the best basketball of his career by a mile right now and hitting multiple clutch shots every night. Then Collins is giving All-Star level impact if you look at some of the advanced numbers. It is Mickey Mouse March on steroids!
victory over Nets (a team trying to lose that absolutely choked in 4th quarter) recap in context of AK talking points:
another victory, so therefore another instance of "developing winning habits" for Matas Buzelis, who didn't play the final quarter and a half
though Julian Phillips did play a lot, including crunch time, and had his best game of his career
Vuc started, but sucked and didn't close. This may hurt 'groundwork' for a trade, hmm. Zach Collins will undoubtedly cause AK to adjust "guys 25 or younger" to "guys under 30" as he has pushed Jalen Smith to DNP-ville
Tre Jones with a Giddey-esque 18/7/6 line with 3 steals and only 1 turnover. Surely this means Tre Jones is also very good and not that Giddey is replaceable.
Would kinda like to bring this guy up again. His 3pt% last year was clearly based on a mirage — a "Mickey Mouse November" where he just shot at an incredible clip and carried over the rest of the year. I never saw him play in Indiana. But I can read splits. He didn't shoot 42% for the season. He shot 71% in November (!) and it declined down to below the league average every time he started getting big minutes.
Same thing happened in 2024/25:
October (4 games): 13.7mpg / 57%
November: 14.7mpg / 30%
December: 17.1mpg / 30%
January: 15.2mpg / 34%
February: 12.6mpg / 36%
March (4 games): 19.4mpg / 29%
This wasn't a good signing and at 3 years it wasn't a good gamble or a harmless one. It's another mediocrity the Bulls overpaid and for a type of player that is just not that hard to find.
"young players with experience" are not hard to find when their original club gives up on them. Smith didn't even have his rookie option picked up by the Suns. And the Pacers clearly thought the Bulls overpaid for a backup
but that is outside evidence, which AK doesn't use. Now that the great Billy has also soured on Smith, AK will...also not use that because he has a lie to sell to ownership.
Kind of similar to the Jevon Carter debacle. AK is so desperate there is no pushback to his coach telling AK his signings suck.
Lowkey, a trash signing. a panoramic view of his time in Indiana showed an inconsistent stretch big that doesn't play much defense or rebound that well. If he's not hitting his 3s which he was super streaky at, he provided almost nothing. Did they think he was going to be the starting center for the future somehow or was he signed to be a backup the whole time? Either way, another terrible contract from AKME.
>"Orlando Robinson, whose game-tying three Matisse Thybulle blocked, was a -27 on the game. He played the final 5:22 of the game after subbing in for Jakob Poeltl (who had 19 points, 8 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals) when the Raptors were up 6."
I don't think a homestand matters at this point. They're clearly trying to lose games. Thankfully I think the Bulls are now past all the teams that are actively trying to lose, so they shouldn't gain too many more places.
I do still think they have a legitimate chance at making the playoffs and losing their lottery pick though. The Magic are genuinely bad and have no offense. The Hawks have no reason to lose in the play-in but I also just don't think they're a good team, so the Bulls could certainly beat them. The Heat will likely run out their G-League squad just to ensure they don't advance.
I don't think the Heat are tanking. They are just not good, and probably a bit dispirited given they have actual standards as a franchise
Also I believe while their pick is lotto protected, if they keep it this year they have to give up two future picks. Maybe they calculate this draft is more important
The Heat have much better players than the Bulls, a much better coach, and a are a much better run organization, yet they continue to lose at a crazy rate. There seems to be more to it than the players being dispirited.
I have no idea what is happening with the bottom of the east and, frankly, I don’t want to know. There is so much bad there, it’s hard to know what any of it means. According to Basketball Reference’s playoff odds, the Bulls have a 97% chance to make the play-in. You can’t even bet it on FanDuel anymore.
The it of which there is more to is Jimmy, though they will never admit it. "Heat Culture" was "Jimmy Culture."
I watched a bunch of videos of him in Golden State, possessions in which he was easily the most significant player on offense even though he didn't record a single boxscore stat. Without the ball he was constantly screening defenders, getting in the way or slipping past them backdoor. He reads angles like he's shooting pool. These clips were like a John Wooden instructional tape on how to play winning basketball. You could imagine some old dude with big glasses doing this with old grimy film of the Celtics in short shorts.
CHGO post-game of this victory over the Jazz is just breaking my brain.
They acknowledge that the Jazz were spectacularly incompetent
but "you can't deny" the Bulls players "playing so well" lately:
- Coby White ascending to star level
- Giddey getting $30M
- Tre Jones getting $15M
The Bulls (the BULLS!) have "too many good players" and can't let them get away. And we should credit the front office and coaching staff for being in alignment to where these new additions can succeed in this system.
To reiterate this post, it's likely the opposite. The system (running and launching threes and not caring about defense) can make any player, especially a guard, put up big numbers. And they are playing so well against teams that are either not trying, hurt, or both. The reason they are getting victories is because of their own defense (so, a fluke).
I understand why the Bulls front office will push this, but we don't have to as fans. I do understand that I'm not watching the games and Chuggo is, and they don't want that to seem totally pointless. But, ya know, Quinten Grimes had 46 points last night.
"Tre Jones has proven to be a plug and play starter"
And how it's important to have guys under contract for trades. What trades lmao. Mentions Lonzo as a value contract though the dude hasn't played a game since signing it.
if to get a star, the Bulls have more than enough salary flotsam. That's all Tre Jones was to the Spurs to get De'Aaron Fox. You find the next Tre Jones, don't pay this one.
and that's far less egregious than the overton window shifting on a Giddey contract, how "the way he's playing lately" means a $30M deal should be expected. Dude, you don't have to expect it just because the Bulls are stupid, say it's stupid! Also, as chimed in by Matt Peck, Giddey isn't even playing at all now, how could it be so valuable?
while we're (well, I'm) talking podcasts, I disagree with Ricky on Cash Considerations that Josh Giddey can keep the Bulls from tanking next year
I don't want Giddey back at any number over $12M. But if he's on the team it won't be a concern that he's a floor raiser. The Bulls keep this 'surging' March team (the Wizards at 6-5 in their last 11...) into next year they will be firmly in the bottom. Maybe not bottom 4 guaranteed
I said this before this season too, and was wrong, but I still think the Bulls were lucky to start the season with LaVine and Vuc heaters and lack of injuries.
To go full tank, a team HAS to manipulate its gameday roster I think. Because that's what the other tanking teams are going to do.
So it really doesn't matter who we have. If we play them at the same time our "competitors" are trying to lose by strategically sitting guys (e.g. Toronto, Charlotte, Brooklyn, Utah, Philly etc) it won't matter.
The guys that are actually trying to do something are going to do it better than the guys who are just stumbling into it.
Completely agree. This is why Matt — and everyone else including myself — who thought this year's team would be terrible were wrong.
In terms of talent and fit, this team sucks. But this is the NBA. Even bad teams can still win games. And bad teams that are trying to win games (ie. the Bulls) are going to beat other bad teams who are intentionally trying to lose.
Don't get me wrong, I hate that like a third of the NBA is intentionally trying to lose this year. They need to change how the draft works or something because this is stupid. With that being said, this is the current reality of the NBA and the Bulls need to adjust to it. You can't just run out a bad team and be one of the worst teams in the league anymore.
Step 1: Trade expirings and 1st round pick for DeMar DeRozan.
Step 2: Trade Zach LaVine to get back expirings and 1st round pick traded for DeMar DeRozan.
Step 3: Trade expirings and 1st round pick for DeMar DeRozan
Poetry.
You can do this forever too because there's always a fringe top 30 guy on the market. Sometimes his name is DeMar. Sometimes it's CJ. Nobody thinks they're good enough to lead a team anywhere important, which is why there's always one on the market. The Lakers are gluing together generational talents and we're on the hunt for Bradley Beal.
Why would the Bulls sign Tre Jones this offseason when they already have so many other guards? I’m still not sure why they extended Lonzo when they did.
Karnisovas is secretly not a man but a Golden Retriever who rolled a very high Charisma score and is able to convince everyone he's a human but still has a memory that doesn't extend beyond WHERE IS MY BALL
Hey yfBB, what about open threads during the playoffs? We could post about that anywhere but I like the community here and what they have to say about it.
Coby White with back to back eastern conference player of the week awards! The first Bulls player to do this since MJ. The Bulls are still nine games under .500.
It's kinda wild. They've built an entire roster without a #1, #2, or #3. None of the players that make a team good. It's a bunch of fringe starters, rotational fodder, and guys who don't ever need to play in an NBA game.
But good news- last year's late lottery pick and this year's late lottery pick should turn this all around!
feel like the Bulls actually do have a lot of of "decent" players, and that is really helping them right now now. while a lot of teams are dealing with injuries, including the Bulls, they have enough playable guys that they're not just getting totally killed by having to play legit bums. Plus, a number of these guys have something to prove (free agency, playing for a next contract, etc.) and the Bulls as a franchise are clearly emphasizing making the play-in, so they're playing hard and playing lineups to win. Also, some of these guys (Giddey, Jones, Collins) are playing so far out of their ass it's just crazy. Giddey actually has a history of playing really well in Mickey Mouse March (check his last 2 seasons game log), but Jones and Collins in these small sample sizes (aka meaningless) are blowing away their normal career production/impact. And here we are.
Yeah, I've been torn watching this team the past couple of weeks. I've always had a soft spot for teams that don't really have any star power, but just go out and play their hearts out and that's kind of been this Bulls team recently.
But on the other hand, I obviously don't want this team winning games because I don't want them to drop further down the draft standings and I don't want them to give AK any sort of hope that his "plan" is actually working.
I'll also say the WAY they're winning games has been pretty annoying. Obviously they dominated a struggling Pacers team at the end of a road trip without their best player. Okay great. The Raptors, Magic, Heat wins were pretty emblematic of how they've won a lot of games this season: play like shit for 3 quarters and somehow get it together late, other team totally melts down, pull the game out of their ass in the final minute/OT.
Like last season, I've been tracking the clutch stuff pretty closely because they won so many games similarly last year. And once again, there seems to be a lot of smoke and mirrors/luck going on. While the Bulls' overall clutch record (games within 5 points/with 5 minutes left) isn't good, if you dig even deeper you see a team that has an insane record in toss-up games that come down to the final minute, and also that one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA has one of the most clutch defensive teams in the league. Last I checked the Bulls are something like 10-2 in games with a margin of 2 points or under in the final minute of the game, the best record in the league. Given the actual talent level on this team, you'd figure them to be like .500 at best, but sometimes crazy shit happens in these small sample size scenarios. And teams just keep missing shots against the Bulls in the final minutes of these close games, while the Bulls have been getting clutch 3s from Josh Giddey and Tre Jones (two games in a row!).
Between this stuff and Zach/Vooch having like career-best heaters for the first 2-3 months of the season, plus Lonzo playing more/better than expected to start the season, I'd honestly guess the Bulls are like 5 games better than they really should be...and even then they might still get the 10 seed.
Seems like this is indicative of good coaching (or execution, which chalks up to the same thing)?
Not necessarily. LaVine was a pretty good player (way better than Matt and others wanted to give him credit for), and the type of player that can “get his shot.” He’s not well-rounded, do-everything player who would dribble the ball off his foot if tasked to get a shot up (well….). But anyway, the skill that drives LaVine’s value is his ability to get decent shots on his own. On a team devoid of that, he’ll get a lot of opportunities. LaVine’s not a super star, but I don’t know that there are 30 guys I’d take over him for a last-minute possession.
I’d say the Bulls best remaining player - Coby White - is similar though not as good. The Bulls had what I would consider 3 decent “get your shot” guys in DeRozan, LaVine, and White. It just goes to show how much “clutch” is overrated because if you can’t be good the rest of the game, what’s the point?
Spurs shutting down D'aaron Fox. Probably going to play some 21 year old who sucks. Bulls don't have that downside risk bc they don't have very good players
Coby White just outplayed Monk, LaVine, DeRozan, LeBron and Luka. Pretty tough for a guy who is not a #3.
We're in a war of attrition that we just can't win. Karnisovas has proven that in this age, you can lie about a fact as rigorous as a team's position in the standings and you not only won't be called out on it, but the media will even cover for you if they determine their own precarious employment owes more to you looking good than reporting the fact that a team's chief executive had no idea where his team stood in the standings.
So Tre Jones can be a future asset while on a contract expiring in 30 days and who was earlier replaced by a 39 year old Chris Paul while everyone reacted with "Yup, Chris Paul's an upgrade over Tre Jones for sure."
Zach Collins is an unpolished gem when you can obviously see his role in the NBA is that of the fabled "tall guy on the bench." They can keep making shit up longer than it takes to tell the truth.
Philly, which has about 5x as much talent in street clothes than the Bulls have in the building, is trying like hell to get down to a top 6 pick to save it and have a fair shot at doing so while we're supposed to praise trading away picks for players and then trading away more players to reclaim the pick as a sagacious move.
National commentators talk about our team like North Korea now. The first part of any discussion is a pre-amble debunking the unhinged propaganda about the Next Five Year Plan and then getting into the even more unhinged propaganda about people being fed to lions and executed by anti-aircraft batteries for getting the wrong haircut.
Edit: It'll be down to the wire but by tanking tonight's game vs Toronto in maybe the two worst starting lineups to ever take an NBA court, Philly just moved down to #5, passing Toronto and Brooklyn. They have a much slimmer margin for error than Chicago and are somehow doing it, and didn't give up jack shit to reacquire their own pick.
a shot at local media (which I'm always happy to do), the Chuggo boys are ruminating on how the Bulls aren't valuing draft position, and when told by fans in their chat that draft position may not matter because AK is doing the drafting, Gottlieb was like "well then this whole discussion is meaningless because you have no faith in the front office" YES EXACTLY
Why would anyone have faith in the Bulls front office? They have accomplished nothing and the future doesn’t look bright.
Will was really impressed when AK stepped up and said to Stacey King they had a plan to, uh, draft players and also use cap space in 2026 maybe
Let's agree that superstars are superstars, you need a couple of them, and we have none. No argument there. But when other players show well, there's no need to shit on them. There are bad middle roster players, mid-ones and good ones. Not everyone that's not a #1 or #2 are truly interchangeable. I've been the BIGGEST Giddey-hater, but he's actually an interesting small forward that needs to be broken of his 'point guard' mentality; he'll always have to be covered for defensively, but does a lot of unique things in that role. Coby, Ayo and Matas are all useful, as is Lonzo if he somehow becomes actually healthy in the next two years. Zach Collins shows what a physical presence can add. Tre Jones has a high pedigree and some real toughness and feel. Red Rocket is hit and miss, but shows what a big shooting guard can bring to the mix. All of these guys are better than what Dalen and PW have shown in their gifted playing time. Outplaying your past comps isn't an issue, some of these guys are in better fit/better situation/new roles. In the other direction, you can see Matas's promise but know he's still a ways away. I prefer to trust my eyes more than the stat sheet or the draft slot. We need to clear out Vuc and find a dynamic big and an alpha shooting guard. That's not an easy task. But sometimes, as with the Cavs and Donovan Mitchell, they can come to you in surprising ways.
Do I count on AKME to assemble it and Billy to coach it in an optimized way? No. But sometimes, as is happening now, a group of players can out-play the bench and front-office's incompetence. At least that's a sliver of hope...I'd say realistic, if not overly optimistic.
I agree that superstars are needed, but AK doesn't
And so it wasn't my point to talk about #3 and #4 level players on the roster. Giddey hasn't even proven to be that level, but you can disagree. It's just Coby and Ayo.
I'm mentioning this morass of everyone else as like 5th-10th man, and do think they are interchangeable. And I think we agree on that too, also that Dalen and PW are not interchangeable with that group (because they are firmly below)
superstar: none
'one of 9-10 very good players on a contender': Coby, Ayo (Matas and Giddey potentially)
just a guy: Vuc, Lonzo (given injuries), Jones, Collins, Huerter, Smith (Phillips potentially)
out of rotation, fringe of league: Carter, Terry, THT, PW (given injuries)
What was surprising about how the Cavs got Donovan Mitchell? They traded 3 first round picks, 2 pick swaps, Lauri Markkanen and Collin Sexton for him, basically handing over their draft to the Utah Jazz for the next 5 years starting this June. That's probably the second most "traditional" way to acquire a star, after getting shitty and drafting one.
Yeah, it's nice to see the Bulls playing well for a stretch. Jones, Collins, even Huerter sometimes, look like decent NBA players. Giddey and White are playing lights out.
I get it that if we slide past Orlando or Miami in the standings our chance for a top 4 draft pick gets a little worse, but I want to see if we can keep winning.
A lot of players show out in March when the stakes are super low and a lot of teams have their foot off the gas or are outright tanking so it's not like you're getting the max competition every game. Mirotic used to pull that shit every season. Jalen Green is another guy like that
I dunno whenever a player can't consistently play well until the last 20-25 games of the year, it's super sus.
Oh no, Windhorst (who doesn't know ball, so this is likely coming from someone which may be worse) said that he thinks Giddey is proving to be a starting PG making $30M
https://www.chicitysports.com/josh-giddy-30-million-chicago-bulls-news
Now he didn't play well until now not due to March silly season, but because better players took the ball out of his hands 🙃 he didn't have a featured role until now???
Is it possible that the Reinsdorfs are taking part of some kind of Brewsters Millions scenario where they'll get $10 billion dollars, but only if they spend within 5% of the tax line, make the play-in, and don't make the playoffs?
If any other GM tried to sign Giddey for 5 years and $150 mil (with a player option, natrually) they'd be fired that same day. The Bulls however...
It will be fine yfBb. After we match Giddey at 5/150, you can say what an idiot AK was for not extending him at the beginning of the season, whenhehad the chance.
Just let him walk. I pledge to not complain.
I mean, sure, disingenuous optimism does sell
I think you will probably be complaining.
What team is giving Giddey 5/150? Teams don’t have that kind of cap space. Brooklyn has the most, but I don’t see them giving him that contract.
It would be great if the answer was none.
It's the kind of endorsement pretty much every player makes and gets. "Guys get paid! Hey, I'm a guy!"
Featured Guy on a Bad Team is definitely a way to get paid by AKME though. He's attracted to players like that like moths to a flame.
Since we're doomed to play this damnable Play-In game at least can we can use it for some data?
Does beating up on a hollowed out Miami or crippled Orlando prove anything? Probably not, but I'm still interested if Giddey can hit shots under pressure, or whether coaches will target him on defense when they actually give a shit about the game. And answer the question if Billy will play Matas real minutes in a real game, or just pontificate about it in a post game thesis defense around rookie playing time.
I am thinking not because Coby White had the game of his career against the unserious Atlanta Hawks, and it did not carry over or build momentum in his career
Coby White played great, they added Giddey and LaVine, and Coby didn't have the opportunity anymore. Now we're seeing him back to that 24 Spring form, except with the extra conditioning work from the offseason. He's pushing people around right now.
Great situation for Coby, no better players are coming next year to hold him back
it's a real can't-win situation with the play-in tournament
if the game is not competitive, it shows the Bulls are even farther away than they delude themselves into
if the game is competitive, it shows that the other teams stink to the level of the Bulls, and thus not an informative benchmark
Random musings:
The Bulls are not going to South Beach for the play-in this year. And no, I'm not saying they won't make the play-in. They are now only 1.5 games behind Miami for 9th place and Miami is clearly trying to lose while the Bulls are not. Gotta get that 9-10 play-in game revenue, baby!!
Five minutes into tonight's game Stacey was losing his mind because somehow Nic Claxton kept getting wide open in the paint. Could it have had to do with Vooch starting, Stacey?? Also, Vooch literally screened Kevin Huerter on the first play of the game leading to Huerter's man getting a wide open layup.
Matas got a whopping 14 minutes tonight and didn't play the final 16 minutes of the game. Bulls got that comeback W though, so it's was all worth it. Matas learned how to win by cheering his teammates on from the bench!
This season has been a parody of Bulls seasons. The CHSN debacle. The bad trades. The terrible press conferences. The refusal to focus on rookie development. The pointless wins.
An unforgettably forgettable parade of nonsense.
And it’s only going to get worse. They’ll continue to win games in March and worsen their lottery standings. They might actually win the play-in tournament this year due to the Heat being truly bad now. They’ll then get blown out by the Cavs in laughable fashion and AK’s response will be “Hey we made the playoffs for the first time in a couple of years. This season was a success!” And the prize for our success will be the 15th overall pick.
AK has cracked the code. In the play-in era, if a bad team with a careless owner never accepts the fact that their team is bad, then they can coast on 30-something wins forever and no one will lose their job.
Don't forget that he'll be able to brag about making the playoffs despite trading away their two highest earners and freeing up cap space!
I mentioned a bunch of this stuff above but we saw it again last night where the Bulls suck for 3 quarters, trail by double digits in the 4th and then come back and win. 3 of the 4 wins in this winning streak they've trailed by 9+ in the 4th, and that Raptors win was 16 and crazy fluke stuff to get it to OT.
I looked it up and during this 4-game winning streak, the Bulls' DRtg is 87.8 in the 4th quarter and opponents are shooting 7/40 (17.5%) from 3. In 14 clutch minutes, they have a 153.3 ORtg, 77.8 DRtg, 75.6 Net Rating (+25 total). Coby/Tre/Huerter have combined to shoot almost 60% in clutch minutes. Even without Giddey last night, it was Jones and Huerter delivering kill shot after kill shot.
Jones is playing the best basketball of his career by a mile right now and hitting multiple clutch shots every night. Then Collins is giving All-Star level impact if you look at some of the advanced numbers. It is Mickey Mouse March on steroids!
victory over Nets (a team trying to lose that absolutely choked in 4th quarter) recap in context of AK talking points:
another victory, so therefore another instance of "developing winning habits" for Matas Buzelis, who didn't play the final quarter and a half
though Julian Phillips did play a lot, including crunch time, and had his best game of his career
Vuc started, but sucked and didn't close. This may hurt 'groundwork' for a trade, hmm. Zach Collins will undoubtedly cause AK to adjust "guys 25 or younger" to "guys under 30" as he has pushed Jalen Smith to DNP-ville
Tre Jones with a Giddey-esque 18/7/6 line with 3 steals and only 1 turnover. Surely this means Tre Jones is also very good and not that Giddey is replaceable.
> as he has pushed Jalen Smith to DNP-ville
Would kinda like to bring this guy up again. His 3pt% last year was clearly based on a mirage — a "Mickey Mouse November" where he just shot at an incredible clip and carried over the rest of the year. I never saw him play in Indiana. But I can read splits. He didn't shoot 42% for the season. He shot 71% in November (!) and it declined down to below the league average every time he started getting big minutes.
Same thing happened in 2024/25:
October (4 games): 13.7mpg / 57%
November: 14.7mpg / 30%
December: 17.1mpg / 30%
January: 15.2mpg / 34%
February: 12.6mpg / 36%
March (4 games): 19.4mpg / 29%
This wasn't a good signing and at 3 years it wasn't a good gamble or a harmless one. It's another mediocrity the Bulls overpaid and for a type of player that is just not that hard to find.
"young players with experience" are not hard to find when their original club gives up on them. Smith didn't even have his rookie option picked up by the Suns. And the Pacers clearly thought the Bulls overpaid for a backup
but that is outside evidence, which AK doesn't use. Now that the great Billy has also soured on Smith, AK will...also not use that because he has a lie to sell to ownership.
Kind of similar to the Jevon Carter debacle. AK is so desperate there is no pushback to his coach telling AK his signings suck.
Lowkey, a trash signing. a panoramic view of his time in Indiana showed an inconsistent stretch big that doesn't play much defense or rebound that well. If he's not hitting his 3s which he was super streaky at, he provided almost nothing. Did they think he was going to be the starting center for the future somehow or was he signed to be a backup the whole time? Either way, another terrible contract from AKME.
Raptors cannot be "caught" (from Sean Highkin)
>"Orlando Robinson, whose game-tying three Matisse Thybulle blocked, was a -27 on the game. He played the final 5:22 of the game after subbing in for Jakob Poeltl (who had 19 points, 8 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals) when the Raptors were up 6."
Bulls are now the 9 seed. Get that play-in revenue, baby!!
fucking Miami.
they do have a 5 game homestand coming up
then in final 9 games play the Wizards or Sixers 4 times
I don't think a homestand matters at this point. They're clearly trying to lose games. Thankfully I think the Bulls are now past all the teams that are actively trying to lose, so they shouldn't gain too many more places.
I do still think they have a legitimate chance at making the playoffs and losing their lottery pick though. The Magic are genuinely bad and have no offense. The Hawks have no reason to lose in the play-in but I also just don't think they're a good team, so the Bulls could certainly beat them. The Heat will likely run out their G-League squad just to ensure they don't advance.
I don't think the Heat are tanking. They are just not good, and probably a bit dispirited given they have actual standards as a franchise
Also I believe while their pick is lotto protected, if they keep it this year they have to give up two future picks. Maybe they calculate this draft is more important
The Heat have much better players than the Bulls, a much better coach, and a are a much better run organization, yet they continue to lose at a crazy rate. There seems to be more to it than the players being dispirited.
The only way for there to be 'more to it' is if they're holding guys out of games or benching them in the game. Which doesn't look to be happening.
I have no idea what is happening with the bottom of the east and, frankly, I don’t want to know. There is so much bad there, it’s hard to know what any of it means. According to Basketball Reference’s playoff odds, the Bulls have a 97% chance to make the play-in. You can’t even bet it on FanDuel anymore.
The it of which there is more to is Jimmy, though they will never admit it. "Heat Culture" was "Jimmy Culture."
I watched a bunch of videos of him in Golden State, possessions in which he was easily the most significant player on offense even though he didn't record a single boxscore stat. Without the ball he was constantly screening defenders, getting in the way or slipping past them backdoor. He reads angles like he's shooting pool. These clips were like a John Wooden instructional tape on how to play winning basketball. You could imagine some old dude with big glasses doing this with old grimy film of the Celtics in short shorts.
CHGO post-game of this victory over the Jazz is just breaking my brain.
They acknowledge that the Jazz were spectacularly incompetent
but "you can't deny" the Bulls players "playing so well" lately:
- Coby White ascending to star level
- Giddey getting $30M
- Tre Jones getting $15M
The Bulls (the BULLS!) have "too many good players" and can't let them get away. And we should credit the front office and coaching staff for being in alignment to where these new additions can succeed in this system.
To reiterate this post, it's likely the opposite. The system (running and launching threes and not caring about defense) can make any player, especially a guard, put up big numbers. And they are playing so well against teams that are either not trying, hurt, or both. The reason they are getting victories is because of their own defense (so, a fluke).
I understand why the Bulls front office will push this, but we don't have to as fans. I do understand that I'm not watching the games and Chuggo is, and they don't want that to seem totally pointless. But, ya know, Quinten Grimes had 46 points last night.
they had a whole day to decompress from that thrilling Jazz victory and Will is still saying this!
https://www.youtube.com/live/VjL0dSmXrkc?si=DayAiX5F_KBsejLt&t=3190
"Tre Jones has proven to be a plug and play starter"
And how it's important to have guys under contract for trades. What trades lmao. Mentions Lonzo as a value contract though the dude hasn't played a game since signing it.
if to get a star, the Bulls have more than enough salary flotsam. That's all Tre Jones was to the Spurs to get De'Aaron Fox. You find the next Tre Jones, don't pay this one.
and that's far less egregious than the overton window shifting on a Giddey contract, how "the way he's playing lately" means a $30M deal should be expected. Dude, you don't have to expect it just because the Bulls are stupid, say it's stupid! Also, as chimed in by Matt Peck, Giddey isn't even playing at all now, how could it be so valuable?
while we're (well, I'm) talking podcasts, I disagree with Ricky on Cash Considerations that Josh Giddey can keep the Bulls from tanking next year
I don't want Giddey back at any number over $12M. But if he's on the team it won't be a concern that he's a floor raiser. The Bulls keep this 'surging' March team (the Wizards at 6-5 in their last 11...) into next year they will be firmly in the bottom. Maybe not bottom 4 guaranteed
I said this before this season too, and was wrong, but I still think the Bulls were lucky to start the season with LaVine and Vuc heaters and lack of injuries.
To go full tank, a team HAS to manipulate its gameday roster I think. Because that's what the other tanking teams are going to do.
So it really doesn't matter who we have. If we play them at the same time our "competitors" are trying to lose by strategically sitting guys (e.g. Toronto, Charlotte, Brooklyn, Utah, Philly etc) it won't matter.
The guys that are actually trying to do something are going to do it better than the guys who are just stumbling into it.
Completely agree. This is why Matt — and everyone else including myself — who thought this year's team would be terrible were wrong.
In terms of talent and fit, this team sucks. But this is the NBA. Even bad teams can still win games. And bad teams that are trying to win games (ie. the Bulls) are going to beat other bad teams who are intentionally trying to lose.
Don't get me wrong, I hate that like a third of the NBA is intentionally trying to lose this year. They need to change how the draft works or something because this is stupid. With that being said, this is the current reality of the NBA and the Bulls need to adjust to it. You can't just run out a bad team and be one of the worst teams in the league anymore.
Step 1: Trade expirings and 1st round pick for DeMar DeRozan.
Step 2: Trade Zach LaVine to get back expirings and 1st round pick traded for DeMar DeRozan.
Step 3: Trade expirings and 1st round pick for DeMar DeRozan
Poetry.
You can do this forever too because there's always a fringe top 30 guy on the market. Sometimes his name is DeMar. Sometimes it's CJ. Nobody thinks they're good enough to lead a team anywhere important, which is why there's always one on the market. The Lakers are gluing together generational talents and we're on the hunt for Bradley Beal.
Why would the Bulls sign Tre Jones this offseason when they already have so many other guards? I’m still not sure why they extended Lonzo when they did.
Karnisovas is secretly not a man but a Golden Retriever who rolled a very high Charisma score and is able to convince everyone he's a human but still has a memory that doesn't extend beyond WHERE IS MY BALL
Hey yfBB, what about open threads during the playoffs? We could post about that anywhere but I like the community here and what they have to say about it.
I second this!
Yes that will happen
Coby White with back to back eastern conference player of the week awards! The first Bulls player to do this since MJ. The Bulls are still nine games under .500.
Sorry Josh.
10 games left.
Games that the team that tries harder will win (6): TOR, POR, CHO, MIA, WAS, PHI
Games against good teams that have been sketchy recently (2): DAL, LAL
Games against the best teams (2): CLE, OKC
Given that the Bulls are trying REALLY HARD right now, this looks like 7 - 3 to me.
Final record: 39 - 43?