I'd be willing to put money on it being OKC who approached AK. First, supposedly Giddey had made known to Presti a few days prior that he wanted to be traded. If so, I'd imagine OKC went to work on that pretty quickly.
Second, AC is kind of a perfect addition for OKC. Getting on the phone with AK as quickly as possible was probably a priority knowing that AC likely was going to have a lot of suitors over the summer.
Last, trading AC that quickly made zero sense for AK, so I'm not sure why AK would have been the one making the first move that early in the offseason. As said in point two, AC was likely going to generate a lot of attention over the offseason, so rushing into a trade for him didn't make a lot of sense. It also removed him as a possible bargaining piece to help get off of Zach's contract.
That trade strikes me as Presti sending AK some very specifically selected highlights of Giddey with a text that said "Man, you guys losing Lonzo sure spoiled your title dreams, huh? It's crazy how similar Giddey is to Lonzo. It's too bad he just doesn't fit our team with SGA at the point. Oh by the way, I know AC's on an expiring deal. He sure would be a great fit on our team. Is there anything you'd be willing to give up for him?"
I don't think any basketball is useless, preseason or even summer pickup. You can always tell who has game and who doesn't. It's the same as the first 10 games of the season. Barring a big trade, the team is typically what it is. As a player, you are who you are for that moment, future upside or downside often clear as well, at least directionally.
That's not to say, like some, that THT deserves a spot in the rotation. No. But he can play in an NBA game, unlike the bottom 5 last year. Is that a 'thing' to care about. Probably not. But watching preseason you can also tell everything you need to know individually about the rest of the roster, a lot of it pretty good (Coby, Ayo, Matas) and some very concerning (Giddey, PW, fuckin' Vuc). What's left? With a roster of 15 playable players, can Billy give the right guys the right minutes for the right reasons? And can AKME, likely not having Cooper Flagg drop into their laps, work a deal for a disgruntled BIG star or pre-agent with a couple of young players and most of their future drafts? That's what I'm watching for.
Don't get me wrong, I do not like Vooch. With that being said, I'm not sure how you can say his preseason was pretty bad. He shot 53% from the field and 44% from three with just under 10 rebounds per game and 3.5 assists per game. Yes, he's a terrible defender, but the only way to make up for that is to be very efficient on offense, which he was. Does that make him good? Of course not. But it was about the best we could hope for from him during preseason.
I also think it's interesting that the two other players who had bad preseasons were the two rehabbing from major surgeries this summer. Not saying I expect Giddey or Pat to have amazing seasons, but I'm not surprised they got off to slow starts in preseason.
A center being a terrible defender is something you just can't make up for. Like a car with a great engine but got no wheels. That kind of player is only a bit player on a good team.
so perhaps not useless to us, but useless to the guy who's making the playing time decisions. If preseason was useful, Patrick Williams wouldn't be starting every year
It is useless. Totally so. It used to be the case that at the team level, and at performance extremes, you could possibly derive some useful predictions from preseason. Such as: no team has ever gone undefeated in preseason and gone on to win fewer than 45 games. Or: no team that lost all its preseason games has ever won 50 games.
But that was back when they played six, seven, eight preseason games. Whatever it was. That's gone, and with it any relevance for preseason. If you can't draw team-level conclusions due to small/bad samples, can't be any better for players, who are just team sub-units.
I came across, but then couldn't re-find, the assessment that some team stats have correlated in the past. I think percentage of 3ptFGA was one
but you're right preseason has been shortened and deemphasized the past couple years. might go even further, LeBron expressed a problem with the Lakers going to Milwaukee and back this year
It might have been useful but the excessive # of pre-season games 20 years ago was because they were not subject to revenue sharing with the Players Association — the owners took all revenue from them. It was the mother of all loopholes and they got greedy and kept extending it further and further, and owners were charging so much for tickets in Peoria and Des Moines that the league office began issuing guidance about players (who didn't have to play in them) suiting up because it was such a bad look.
Think that most people are way too critical of the Bull's management. If the Bulls could have traded LaVine or Vucevic and received back something intelligent and reasonable, then the Bulls would have done just that. My only criticism of the Bull's offseason moves is that the Bulls needed to acquire one more 'big man'. The Bulls did pick up Jalen Smith which is good, but the Bulls only have Vucevic and Smith. The Bulls need one more big athletic player inside. Think that the Bulls will get overpowered and outplayed in the interior.
"If the Bulls could have traded LaVine or Vucevic and received back something intelligent or reasonable, then the Bulls would have done just that."
First of all that's an ex post facto argument. Counterpoint is AK seems to rarely ever get something "intelligent and reasonable" back in the trades he does make.
Second, this implies that having LaVine and Vooch on the team is unintelligent and unreasonable. I agree! Bulls management is both those things.
I agree with this and I think fans who are shooting off their mouths are ruining trade opportunities. Why would the Lakers give us all of their draft picks for Zach when Jeanie Buss is reading here that he's not worth it?? In words begin responsibility, and clearly BaB posters have abused this. I would like to ask for a moratorium on all opinions which are preventing our highly competent front office from executing the moves they obviously need to make, like trading the 33 year old center a year after they gave him a 3 year extension worth more than 50% more than other players just like him. These are professionals.
Zach's perceived value is such a weird weird weird thing. Today I read the ringer's 'NBA stuff to get excited about and write about!' thing and the 'he's an efficient scorer in a bad situation' narrative survives! It's wild
well it's better than a counter narrative of "he played poorly because he's always hurt, but not anymore!"
I just can't escape the idea that it's the front offices (not the fans) that will do the Tobias+Lindsay "but maybe it can work...for us" meme. I have zero faith that AK can propagate it like, say, a Darryl Morey can
It's a joke that we haven't told enough in these parts that the team that had a long-standing interesting in Zach, and which he would fit in the best right out of the gate and maybe even help them to the point where his contract is moot, signed DeMar DeRozan instead.
Bulls going from last-ish to first-ish in pace without a coach change and with barely any roster turnover would be pretty astonishing. The games are going to look a lot different, and I'm pretty excited about that.
heck, the first couple months of the regular season are also worthless. Sixers just announced Embiid and PG aren't playing this week
and we know post-deadline regular season is already worthless
there's about, say, 26 games that matter and can inform a team like the Bulls, who are in the 'knowledge gathering' stage of their roster ::thumbs up::
Lol last season I was watching Philly's first game and I got really bummed out because I had taken their over (not real betting, just a game with a friend) and I was like "fuckin great, took the over on a team whose best player looks and moves like a manatee". It was true, it's one of the worst games I've seen from Embiid and physically he looked like shit. But like a week later he was scoring a point a minute and was totally unstoppable. Maybe that early game predicted his injury to some extent, but it sure as hell didn't have much to say about how he'd play.
I've never been less excited to watch a fancy new trade acquisition play than I am with Josh Giddey. The entire roster aside from Coby and Ayo is a bunch of "who cares" and "why bother" to me. Boring as shit.
Was it ever reported as who approached whom in the Caruso-Giddey trade? Because… I have my suspicions.
I'd be willing to put money on it being OKC who approached AK. First, supposedly Giddey had made known to Presti a few days prior that he wanted to be traded. If so, I'd imagine OKC went to work on that pretty quickly.
Second, AC is kind of a perfect addition for OKC. Getting on the phone with AK as quickly as possible was probably a priority knowing that AC likely was going to have a lot of suitors over the summer.
Last, trading AC that quickly made zero sense for AK, so I'm not sure why AK would have been the one making the first move that early in the offseason. As said in point two, AC was likely going to generate a lot of attention over the offseason, so rushing into a trade for him didn't make a lot of sense. It also removed him as a possible bargaining piece to help get off of Zach's contract.
That trade strikes me as Presti sending AK some very specifically selected highlights of Giddey with a text that said "Man, you guys losing Lonzo sure spoiled your title dreams, huh? It's crazy how similar Giddey is to Lonzo. It's too bad he just doesn't fit our team with SGA at the point. Oh by the way, I know AC's on an expiring deal. He sure would be a great fit on our team. Is there anything you'd be willing to give up for him?"
I don't think any basketball is useless, preseason or even summer pickup. You can always tell who has game and who doesn't. It's the same as the first 10 games of the season. Barring a big trade, the team is typically what it is. As a player, you are who you are for that moment, future upside or downside often clear as well, at least directionally.
That's not to say, like some, that THT deserves a spot in the rotation. No. But he can play in an NBA game, unlike the bottom 5 last year. Is that a 'thing' to care about. Probably not. But watching preseason you can also tell everything you need to know individually about the rest of the roster, a lot of it pretty good (Coby, Ayo, Matas) and some very concerning (Giddey, PW, fuckin' Vuc). What's left? With a roster of 15 playable players, can Billy give the right guys the right minutes for the right reasons? And can AKME, likely not having Cooper Flagg drop into their laps, work a deal for a disgruntled BIG star or pre-agent with a couple of young players and most of their future drafts? That's what I'm watching for.
Don't get me wrong, I do not like Vooch. With that being said, I'm not sure how you can say his preseason was pretty bad. He shot 53% from the field and 44% from three with just under 10 rebounds per game and 3.5 assists per game. Yes, he's a terrible defender, but the only way to make up for that is to be very efficient on offense, which he was. Does that make him good? Of course not. But it was about the best we could hope for from him during preseason.
I also think it's interesting that the two other players who had bad preseasons were the two rehabbing from major surgeries this summer. Not saying I expect Giddey or Pat to have amazing seasons, but I'm not surprised they got off to slow starts in preseason.
A center being a terrible defender is something you just can't make up for. Like a car with a great engine but got no wheels. That kind of player is only a bit player on a good team.
I would agree. Hence, me saying it still doesn't make him good. It's just the best we can hope for from Vooch.
so perhaps not useless to us, but useless to the guy who's making the playing time decisions. If preseason was useful, Patrick Williams wouldn't be starting every year
It is useless. Totally so. It used to be the case that at the team level, and at performance extremes, you could possibly derive some useful predictions from preseason. Such as: no team has ever gone undefeated in preseason and gone on to win fewer than 45 games. Or: no team that lost all its preseason games has ever won 50 games.
But that was back when they played six, seven, eight preseason games. Whatever it was. That's gone, and with it any relevance for preseason. If you can't draw team-level conclusions due to small/bad samples, can't be any better for players, who are just team sub-units.
I came across, but then couldn't re-find, the assessment that some team stats have correlated in the past. I think percentage of 3ptFGA was one
but you're right preseason has been shortened and deemphasized the past couple years. might go even further, LeBron expressed a problem with the Lakers going to Milwaukee and back this year
Thank you for reminding me to move my Lakers over-under pick from slight over to slight under.
It might have been useful but the excessive # of pre-season games 20 years ago was because they were not subject to revenue sharing with the Players Association — the owners took all revenue from them. It was the mother of all loopholes and they got greedy and kept extending it further and further, and owners were charging so much for tickets in Peoria and Des Moines that the league office began issuing guidance about players (who didn't have to play in them) suiting up because it was such a bad look.
Think that most people are way too critical of the Bull's management. If the Bulls could have traded LaVine or Vucevic and received back something intelligent and reasonable, then the Bulls would have done just that. My only criticism of the Bull's offseason moves is that the Bulls needed to acquire one more 'big man'. The Bulls did pick up Jalen Smith which is good, but the Bulls only have Vucevic and Smith. The Bulls need one more big athletic player inside. Think that the Bulls will get overpowered and outplayed in the interior.
"If the Bulls could have traded LaVine or Vucevic and received back something intelligent or reasonable, then the Bulls would have done just that."
First of all that's an ex post facto argument. Counterpoint is AK seems to rarely ever get something "intelligent and reasonable" back in the trades he does make.
Second, this implies that having LaVine and Vooch on the team is unintelligent and unreasonable. I agree! Bulls management is both those things.
Exactly. Which trades has AK made recently that brought something intelligent or reasonable back in comparison to what they were giving up?
I agree with this and I think fans who are shooting off their mouths are ruining trade opportunities. Why would the Lakers give us all of their draft picks for Zach when Jeanie Buss is reading here that he's not worth it?? In words begin responsibility, and clearly BaB posters have abused this. I would like to ask for a moratorium on all opinions which are preventing our highly competent front office from executing the moves they obviously need to make, like trading the 33 year old center a year after they gave him a 3 year extension worth more than 50% more than other players just like him. These are professionals.
Zach's perceived value is such a weird weird weird thing. Today I read the ringer's 'NBA stuff to get excited about and write about!' thing and the 'he's an efficient scorer in a bad situation' narrative survives! It's wild
well it's better than a counter narrative of "he played poorly because he's always hurt, but not anymore!"
I just can't escape the idea that it's the front offices (not the fans) that will do the Tobias+Lindsay "but maybe it can work...for us" meme. I have zero faith that AK can propagate it like, say, a Darryl Morey can
It's a joke that we haven't told enough in these parts that the team that had a long-standing interesting in Zach, and which he would fit in the best right out of the gate and maybe even help them to the point where his contract is moot, signed DeMar DeRozan instead.
Jeanie Buss reads Blog A Bull? 😳
Yes.
Bulls going from last-ish to first-ish in pace without a coach change and with barely any roster turnover would be pretty astonishing. The games are going to look a lot different, and I'm pretty excited about that.
heck, the first couple months of the regular season are also worthless. Sixers just announced Embiid and PG aren't playing this week
and we know post-deadline regular season is already worthless
there's about, say, 26 games that matter and can inform a team like the Bulls, who are in the 'knowledge gathering' stage of their roster ::thumbs up::
AK getting real excited that he only has to pay attention to 26 games this year.
Unfortunately it's the opposite, he is dumb and is over-invested in regular season games, especially ones seen from the UC owner's box
Lol last season I was watching Philly's first game and I got really bummed out because I had taken their over (not real betting, just a game with a friend) and I was like "fuckin great, took the over on a team whose best player looks and moves like a manatee". It was true, it's one of the worst games I've seen from Embiid and physically he looked like shit. But like a week later he was scoring a point a minute and was totally unstoppable. Maybe that early game predicted his injury to some extent, but it sure as hell didn't have much to say about how he'd play.
I've never been less excited to watch a fancy new trade acquisition play than I am with Josh Giddey. The entire roster aside from Coby and Ayo is a bunch of "who cares" and "why bother" to me. Boring as shit.
I love this write up. I love everything about it; the tone, the content, the contempt for Bulls leadership. I just love it.