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granvillator's avatar

Giddey / Huerter / Vucevic / Collins / Buzelis will make for an interesting, uh, "Turn Back The Clock Night"...

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Stay Chisel's avatar

We call that the Blizzard lineup.

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your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

this is what they meant by telling Will Perdue fans would feel comfortable coming to the United Center

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Dionysus2.0's avatar

Coby White would be the first off the bench, lol...

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tyger1147's avatar

Basically the same as my thoughts. This is both a good trade and another sign of AKME being bad. They traded an overpriced and hugely problematic contract and turned it into $13 million less next year and broken up into two contracts. That’s a lot better than holding onto LaVine because they didn’t get a first back. A deal for LaVine was never going to be a good return, so there was definitely a part of me that thought they’d do nothing.

And none of these players are young. They’re in-their-prime vets.

Removing the protection is almost pointless considering they just got rid of their best player and were already on the edge of keeping it. But hey, a guarantee is better than 98% or whatever. Just ask Patrick a Williams and his dunking.

I think this is about as good as they could probably do (minus some protected firsts or getting back players that might actually be on the team in 2 years), so that’s good. À heavily protected first 3 years from now and some 21-year old nobody could have at least made it a little more interesting but oh well.

Now do Vuc!!!

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your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

it also means the pick can be traded now

I would be happy (though I'm sure they'd screw it up) if they pivoted in the summer and used it to upgrade. (assuming they don't win the lottery of course)

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tyger1147's avatar

Couldn’t they have already traded it, there just would have been uncertainty to it. I mean, you’re right in that there is value in that, but doesn’t that only last until Thursday? If they wait until the summer they would have already known whether they had the pick or not, yes?

There is more value than what I initially said, but is it that much more?

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your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

yes, for this protected pick it mostly just makes things more simple

but as it was an ongoing obligation, it meant their 2026 and 2027 picks were also locked until this Spurs pick conveyed. Now those can be traded. They could've done it with some 'first available' language, but as you pointed out there's less certainty

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barronitaly's avatar

God, that is ominous. I'm afraid that one of them is going out with Vuc.

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SweetBeezus's avatar

Do you recall what the Spurs would have gotten if the Bulls first didn't convey in 25, 26, or 27? Would it have turned into multiple 2nds?

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your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

1-10 in 2025, 1-8 in 2026 and 1-8 in 2027; if Chicago has not conveyed a 1st round pick to San Antonio by 2027, then Chicago will instead convey its 2028 2nd round pick

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Rich Karpinski's avatar

Massive pick and swap trades easier. But scary in AK's hands

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Captain Kirk's Tooth Gap's avatar

Hey, Bob's Uncle ;)

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your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

I forgot to give the all-important trade grade!

Bulls get an F, because they are run by idiots and I'm sure could've gotten more if they weren't.

But it's not an F- (grade if they held on to LaVine for better return, indefinitely)

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Jaina's avatar

Still better than what the Mavs did, lol

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Dalibor Bagaric post up's avatar

At least we know AKME would never trade an all time great player in his prime, because they'd be too content to answer the phone if the team were competitive.

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ReturnOfTheHack's avatar

I was really hoping to see the return of everyone's favorite bench guy, Cash Considerations.

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John Miller's avatar

Think you are wrong. Was as good as the Bulls were going to get for LaVine.

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your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

yes, it's as good as the Bulls were going to get. Because the Bulls are run by idiots.

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Jay Went's avatar

I've completely lost track of the current cap, can these guys can be traded this year? Or is there a recently traded restriction that would last past the deadline?

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tyger1147's avatar

They can’t be aggregated or something. So they could trade one or the other (or both separately) but not combined together or with any other players.

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your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

that's correct

also until the trade is official they could rope in more teams and aggregate immediately

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Jay Went's avatar

Got it. Which, there only value would be for salary matching anyway, so they're probably bulls roster fodder until they are bought out or expire. This generation's Flip Murray and Acie Law

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tyger1147's avatar

Yeah, if they don’t get other teams involved, the most they could do this year is take back an expiring contract for the same amount or less. So trading Collins to someone who thinks they need a center for a worse but cheaper player? Or Jones. But that’s about it until the summer.

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John Miller's avatar

Just keep Collins to play at center. Especially since Vucevic could very well be traded this week.

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your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

Collins has negative value, there's no way they can even get an expiring contract for him. Only potential use is if the returning player had an even worse contract. And even then I don't know what asset there would be. Like the Suns could want to deal Nurkic for Collins but Collins is unplayable for them too, right?

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your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

I think the idea of "someone who thinks they need a center for a worse but cheaper player" is for Vucevic, not Collins. I am pretty sure - not that I follow the Spurs that closely - that Collins is not playable

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granvillator's avatar

Collins has an okay shot for a big man, better than average hands but is an anemic rebounder with really bad footwork and defensively he's too slow and gets killed. He's best as a 10 mpg reserve on your team, if your team also has LaMelo Ball, Luka Doncic or James Harden.

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your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

so maybe the Suns *could* use him then

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tyger1147's avatar

I mean, sure. I’m just saying things.

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ExpiredTradeException's avatar

This is extremely mediocre. The pick this year is worth nothing since they traded their best player and are on pace to pick 7-8 anyway. There is value in next year's pick even though they will almost certainly be worse, just because of the uncertainty. I had hope they would get some protected first or other for Zach.

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Stay Chisel's avatar

My math is a little different on the savings for next season. I have the Bulls saving under $10M by trading Zach and taking on Huerter and Collins. I don't know what this really means as there isn't enough cap room to take on a large, bad deal to get a pick or other assets (and also there isn't enough space to make a meaningful signing). While these contacts are smaller than Zach's, the players are totally useless so I don't see how they could be moved for value.

Essentially what I'm saying is that this is mostly a pointless trade. Getting the 2025 pick back is fine although the Bulls were going to keep that at least this year. It should also be noted that the Bulls never should have traded that pick to the Spurs in the first place. It was an awful move then so getting out of that now isn't something anyone should be happy about now.

Trading away a second rounder proves how bad this FO is. Totally unnecessary.

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your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

this summer they could combine some iteration of Huerter/Collins/Vuc/Carter/Terry , aka all expiring 2026 uselessness...into some player. Like Zach LaVine!

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Stay Chisel's avatar

Would be great to get a star by packaging that trash with all of the picks we got in the rebuild. Oh wait...

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your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

and yeah it's beyond parody that the Bulls gave up a second rounder in this deal. Zach got dealt for pretty much zero value, but they can spin it was technically not zero (let alone negative)

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Punchandjudy's avatar

giving up a second rounder, doing GARPAX proud

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granvillator's avatar

When you trade away your leading scorer to take back the pick you sent to a team for a guy that is now teammates with your leading scorer

#JustBullsThings

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Captain Kirk's Tooth Gap's avatar

I admittedly don't follow Tre Jones closely, but I felt like he looked pretty decent last year. Maybe it was just because that Spurs team sucked, but he seemed to be the only one able to get Wemby the ball. He's expiring this year though, so I guess it doesn't really matter.

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granvillator's avatar

He does have decent PG skills but his shooting is actually even worse than Giddey.

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your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

that's my recollection too. It was a meme last year that they were tanking when not playing him because they had no other even competent ballhandlers

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John Miller's avatar

Huerter and Collins' contracts end at the end of next season, but LaVine's contract doesn't end until the 2026/2027 season. So will save $11 million next season and $49 the 2026/2027 season.

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Dionysus2.0's avatar

They also picked up two trade exceptions in the trade. So in theory they could absorb salary into those while receiving picks for their trouble - not that this front office knows how to use wrangle the salary cap/trade market in that manner.

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CE's avatar

They have 17 players now on their roster? two gotta go?

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your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

yes, Duarte and Torrey Craig most likely

KC reported they're looking for trades, but there's no grace period or anything, they need to be off the roster for this LaVine deal to be official

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Captain Kirk's Tooth Gap's avatar

No, not Chris Dwerty! Whose name is Stacey going to constantly mispronounce now??

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your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

well Huerter, of course, but he's gonna be Red Mamba 2.0

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your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

as of Monday morning the trade still hasn't been announced so there's still time. Both San Antonio and Sacramento play tonight though.

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d-noah's avatar

Not that the bulls have been great or anything, but the aggregate return from getting rid of DeMar, Zach and AC is absolutely awful.

Lose DeMar

Get back 2 second round pick and Chris Duarte and of course cash considerations

Lose AC

Get Josh Giddey

Lose Zach Lavine and Bulls 2025 2nd round pick

Get Kevin Huerter, Zach Collins, Tre Jones, their 2025 pick

So in aggregate, by giving up 2 All Stars and 1st team defensive team player (plus 2 second round picks) they got Chris Duarte, Josh Giddey, Kevin Huerter, Zach Collins, Tre Jones, their own partially owned 1st and 2 other second round round picks and cash

Like this is rebuilding, but not the way that Boston or OKC did it. Total garbage haul that just helps ensure that Jerry saves money than anything else.

Is there any confidence that the Bulls actually want to rebuild, or are they going to try to pick up a half star on the cheap and pray for 10th place?

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your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

don't discount the idea that they want to be better, and build with a star, but they think Josh Giddey is a star

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d-noah's avatar

😭

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granvillator's avatar

Oops, just made the same post you did.

It's a virtual certainty it will look even worse in a post-Vuc future.

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d-noah's avatar

Also, like could they have not found this garbage haul for Golden State, Denver or LA? Sending this poor guy to the Purgatory of the Western Conference just seems cruel.

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granvillator's avatar

On the plus side, Sacramento will get to try out the high potential "Zach LaVine/DeMar DeRozan" partnership.

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Diabolo's avatar

It only works if Lonzo Ball is also playing. Surprised the Kings didn't take this into consideration.

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granvillator's avatar

Then they'd have to come up with $20 million worth of players they didn't want in addition to the $35 million of players they didn't want that we already took for free.

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Jay Went's avatar

The Caruso one still pisses me off, but the reality here is that the bulls didn't have Paul George or Paul Pierce to trade. They had some guys no one really wanted (their own fault)

There is an absolute urgency to rip this thing down to the ground. Burn the studs. Nothing is worth keeping except maybe Matas. A sixers process style rebuild feels like the only path forward. And it's gonna fucking suck, but at this point just feels like there's no point putting off the inevitable. Just wish they'd start it right by also firing AK.

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d-noah's avatar

Fair point. But without extra picks, this is an extended rebuild - or, more likely, just a restructure into mediocrity that they can sell to fans for a few extra years.

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Jay Went's avatar

Yeah maybe they get a protected pick for Vooch from the Warriors. Maybe they can get a pick for Coby. But it's hard not to think those picks will just turn into the next Chandler Hutchisons anyway

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granvillator's avatar

Dennis Schroder and Dorian Finney-Smith netted Brooklyn more picks than Alex Caruso, DeMar DeRozan and Zach LaVine combined.

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granvillator's avatar

I agree with your points but they won't rip this thing to the ground. So the marsupial-paced fire sale has just been a slow off-loading of assets, usually at the worst or near-worst possible time to do so.

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THEKILLERWHALE's avatar

They off-loaded Caruso at an okay time. They simply asked for far less than he was worth!

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John Miller's avatar

Agreed. Wish that the Bulls hadn't made the Caruso Giddey trade. Okay to trade Caruso but needed to get more including a first round pick. Personally, I don't want Giddey. OKC had demoted Giddey.

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granvillator's avatar

The total "haul" for breaking up this team that Karnisovas put together is now tallied up as:

1. Josh Giddey

2. Chris Duarte

3. Zach Collins

4. Kevin Huerter

5. Tre Jones

6. 2 second round picks

Vuc pending.

Man inflation really did kick our asses.

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Stay Chisel's avatar

Thanks, Obama!

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Captain Kirk's Tooth Gap's avatar

Shouldn't it only be one second round pick since we sent one of the ones we got in the DeMar trade back to Sacramento in this trade? Or am I missing another second round pick somewhere?

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your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

that's correct, just the one second round pick lmao

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granvillator's avatar

Is that the Sacramento pick that reverts back to Sac? These three teams have engaged in 66% of Karnisovas transactions in the last year so I'm confused who was giving back what from which.

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Captain Kirk's Tooth Gap's avatar

That's what I thought I read somewhere, but I could certainly be wrong.

I suppose even if it's not one of the picks the Bulls got from Sacramento this past summer, it's still only one total pick. If they got two from Sacramento this summer and then are sending one of their own to Sacramento now, that still only nets them one total pick.

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granvillator's avatar

So the logic of even participating in the sign-and-trade for DeMar evaporates beneath the crush of Karnisovan incompetence.

They didn't want to pay Harrison Barnes' $18 million for a highly valuable pick swap with a team that has made the playoffs once in 15 years ...

... but they held Chris Duarte, making $6 million, for the equivalent of what is now one 2nd round pick.

I think they got cash (not $6 million) in the sign-and-trade but they still paid him and held him the whole year for his 74 minute contribution.

Penny wide, pound foolish, and entirely dumb make for a lethal combo.

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SweetBeezus's avatar

But had they taken on Barnes, they wouldn't have had enough money to give Pat that contract, so you see... oh my.

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granvillator's avatar

Why am I regretting entering this into the consciousness?

Since we can only trade with these two teams:

Chicago: Trades Nikola Vucevic to SAC

SAC: Trades DeMar DeRozan to SAS

SAS: Trades Harrison Barnes to Chicago

I figure we can give them back the pick that they just gave us back as part of the customary "DeRozan Tax" payable to the City of San Antonio every time he's traded.

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your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

Yep. As you followed with, a truly wild sequence of transactions between these three teams. And each time it goes Spurs then Kings then Bulls in terms of smartest play

So in addition to the famous protected first rounder, in the original DeMar acquisition AK also threw in two second round picks (as he is fond of doing). a 2022 second-round pick via the Lakers as well as the their own 2025 second-round pick. So that's the "Bulls pick" going to the Kings, from the Spurs, in this Fox acquisition.

The Kings getting 'their own 2028 second round pick' back, this is one of two they just gave up when THEY acquired DDR this past summer. So the Bulls owned that pick, and giving it up meant they just had the one left as their sell-off 'haul', the single 2025 Kings second rounder

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Punchandjudy's avatar

Man the jimmy saga is unreal

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Jaina's avatar

it's really interesting to see how everything has developed since he left the bulls.

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Jaina's avatar

So the kings have reunited Zach and Demar... because that worked so well for the Bulls? lol.

Yes I'm alive!

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Punchandjudy's avatar

Their fans hate their F.O. as much as we do ours

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Jaina's avatar

I saw some comment earlier today I think on reddit from a Kings fan that was like well, at least we're not the Mavs. 😂

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MikeDC's avatar

Right? AKME must have been so relived when Nico Harrison clinched the (Bad) Executive of the Year trophy early.

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Jaina's avatar

Especially when you consider that absolute batshit interview to go along with it. This is what he wanted.

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Captain Kirk's Tooth Gap's avatar

It's also why AK doesn't do interviews.

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Jaina's avatar

Mavs fans are probably wishing Harrison didn't either lol.

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TC's avatar

They need to sell high on Coby and Ayo Trade Craig for a 2nd. Trade Vuc for two 2nds.

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Diabolo's avatar

And finally trade Pat for three 2nds.

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CE's avatar

Selling high on Coby has come and gone.

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Trigga T's avatar

i could see OKC or SA giving up a non-premium 1st...considering both teams still has a huge warchest of picks

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THEKILLERWHALE's avatar

Goodbye Zach. I do not want to be mean but I do not think he played in even a single memorable game in 8 seasons as a Bull. The best thing he did in a Bulls uniform was try to tell Meatball Boylen to go fuck himself that one time. Eight fucking seasons wasted. There was maybe a DeMar highlight in there somewhere. But why does this team even exist at this point?

Some players were made to wear the purple and black. I am surprised this did not happen sooner. If he finishes his career at Charlotte he will have completed the most meaningless statistically impressive careers in basketball history by joining the dreaded Sacramento/Minnesota/Charlotte triad of irrelevance to which we are, to our eternal shame, now charter members.

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THEKILLERWHALE's avatar

*charter member apparently does not mean what I thought it meant.

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Dogfishhead's avatar

We understood what you meant and it is no less resounding.

At the point the Bulls doubled down on Nikola Vucevic I understood them as basically Lake Cocytus. Frozen up to their necks in said, sad, unrelenting irrelevance. At this point, the LaVine trade is a repositioning of sorts. Like, they're now maybe headlong, face-first into ice, with their feet now exposed, burning.

I guess, I mean, that's, something. But the core of this team is, one, Matas Buzelis. And a bunch of dumb shit, void of all net new draft picks, just regenerating on loops around him.

They overvalued four players (DDR, LaVine, Vuc, and Giddey) so magnificently and in succession, whilst drafting so poorly along the way, this season boils down to single percentage points as to the chances of drafting a white kid from Duke to somehow and once again save us from ourselves.

It's all been so consistently bad, I'm a little overwhelmed at this point and I blame myself.

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granvillator's avatar

+1 for Greek mythology refs

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Captain Kirk's Tooth Gap's avatar

What's hilarious is Sacramento has wanted Zach for years now. You know if Sacramento wants you, you probably aren't much of an impact player.

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Mr.M's avatar

Yup, even sadder to think that Jimmy Butler had more playoff of games/wins during his brief stint w/ the Twolves than Zach did during his 8 seasons here 😭

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your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

this is a great bit that i'll steal, but technically it's the same 'success', a single 4-1 first round loss

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Chi-Fed's avatar

I believe that Zach didn’t play in one the playoff games so Jimmy has one more win.

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Mr.M's avatar

Steal away 👍🏻

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your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

fitting that there is Zach nostalgia from KC Johnson on an app people are abandoning in droves working for a network nobody wants to (or can) watch

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Stay Chisel's avatar

In talking about this trade with a friend I said something similar. What is the signature Zach memory as a Bull? Aside from that one game in 2019 where he singlehandedly brought the team back against Charlotte on the road, I can't think of any other moments.

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granvillator's avatar

That's it. And I don't know what the opposite of becoming MJ in a January game against Charlotte is, but his vanishing act against the Heat in the playin was probably pretty close.

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Jaina's avatar

If you consider demars back to back game winners, he literally had a more memorable career in 2 games than Zach did over 8 years.

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your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

I don't have this different perspective wrt Zach but found it well said

https://rokdeezbullsblog.com/2025/02/03/goodbye-zach-lavine/

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Jaina's avatar

Though comparing that shot to Reggie Miller is an insult to Reggie lol.

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Trigga T's avatar

it's fitting that he is going to Sacramento bc I always thought he was just the millenial version of Mitch Richmond. Great scorer that has no impact on winning whatsoever

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James Trickington's avatar

After this trade you could argue that:

- If Vuc is not gone by Thursday, I don't know what we are doing here.

- If Vuc is traded before Thursday, considering who is in charge of making that trade, I probably wouldn't know what we would be doing here.

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your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

reads like a threat:

@DarnellMayberry

Starting center Nikola Vučević is a natural candidate to be traded, but he remains a highly respected and valued player within the organization.

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your friendly BullsBlogger's avatar

Shams-dusting that the Warriors are looking for an upgrade. Like LeBron or Durant. I don't think Vuc suffices anymore lol

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James Trickington's avatar

Bruh, and what about Mr triple double.

Apparently, Sam Amick has reported bulls and warriors are still engaged in trade talks. I don't know how reliable he is, but I prefer to think there is some truth in that.

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Brent_LZ's avatar

This move is also exciting because it opens of a world of possible Mid-Ass AK Trades that we can ponder going forward where team does something (new!), they don't get draft compensation but give away a future 2nd (same!), and they prioritize almost-stars over actual stars (the rug that ties the room together).

Coby + Ayo + Huerter + future 2nd for Zion, anyone?

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MikeDC's avatar

The big takeaway here, just like with pretty much every other move the Bulls have made during AKME's tenure, is that there's no such thing as doing the "right move" if you do it badly.

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