"Having LaVine lead late game offense with more Patrick Williams on-ball reps, you better believe that’s a tankin’." The "a" in "that's a tankin'". Made me giggle more than it probably should've. Excellent turn of phrase.
Assuming Philly is perusing the Bulls' clearance rack, what do they have (and are willing to offer) that actually helps us? Not much in the way of meaningful draft picks, even after the Harden deal. And outside of Maxey himself (not happening) I don't see any breakout star candidates on their bench - though I admittedly haven't paid that much attention to their developing players.
I guess if we're just looking to dump DDR's salary at the deadline and and gift him the chance to chase a ring, maybe we take whatever scraps the Sixers offer, but I imagine there are other contenders who could pay more for.a DDR rental (note that I said "could," not "will"). Maybe the dream would be OKC overperforming again and reaching into their cupboard of picks (they literally can't use them all) to rent a veteran for a playoff run.
what makes a draft pick 'meaningful'? you're not getting a near-term and lightly-protected pick for DeRozan at this point, from anywhere
I agree that the Sixers also don't have much in terms of prospects, but that's kind of the Bulls job, right? find someone that another team isn't utilizing. Anybody can win a trade if there's some standout young player received in return, and I don't think DeRozan could get you that. DeRozan+Caruso, maybe.
You pretty much hit on what I'd call "meaningful" but in addition to near-term and lightly protected, I'd add the potential likelihood that the pick is in the top 15-18 or better (lottery-ish). Nothing is certain in the NBA but it's pretty easy to guess which teams will likely be contenders in the next few years. Do I want a '24, '25, or '26 pick that's probably going to be #25 or worse? Is that better than extending DDR or allowing him to pursue a S&T in an offseason when more teams have flexibility (and hope)? I'm not sure.
By the same token, your 2nd paragraph is on the money but perhaps we'd agree that if it's the Bulls' job to find prospects they should avoid dealing directly with the Sixers. And if trading DDR is waving a white flag I don't see any reason to hang onto Caruso, particularly if you can sell high when he's healthy (as that becomes less and less likely with each dive into a jumble of elbows and knees).
> I imagine there are other contenders who could pay more for.a DDR rental (note that I said "could," not "will").
There are points where I give up trying to figure out how NBA execs value things but I would not anticipate a bidding war for DDR.
> Maybe the dream would be OKC overperforming again and reaching into their cupboard of picks (they literally can't use them all) to rent a veteran for a playoff run.
There is some overlap here: the teams that have accumulated things that would make a tempting offer for DDR are many of the same teams that do not value his style of play very highly. OKC would probably just pass him on for some mediocre draft considerations if they happened to acquire him. They certainly aren't desiring to acquire a player like him. The people that run Philadelphia and OKC's franchises are more or less the same people that put into practice ideas that make DeMar's game a somewhat unsavory addition to a modern NBA team. They have a number in their head that DeMar is worth to them. It's just not very high.
Jaden Springer is already great on defense (well, when he learns not to foul out so soon) and has potential on offense.
BBall Paul is a really useful role player and has something the Bulls lack (interior defense + a big who can move his feet on the perimeter on defense against smaller players).
The 76ers just picked up KJ Martin in the Harden trade too.
Korkmaz also asked to be included in the Harden trade and wasn't. That's probably about the 4th time in a few years that he asks to be traded and isn't LOL. Not a prospect though.
Problem is I don't either Lavine or DeRozan make much sense in Philly. They have their two stars in Embiid and Maxey, what they need are high level starters in the mold of Michael Porter Jr and Aaron Gordon in Denver. In that spirit OG Anunoby makes much more sense from a 76ers point of view, for example.
LaVine to the Sixers makes no sense. They already have Embiid, Harris, and Maxey. Harden's absence showed what Maxey can do and adding Zach would only further reduce his touches. Of Mannix's rumors, Anunoby makes the most sense for Philly.
The Dalen thing is confounding but not picking up the option is an admission that they got the draft wrong so they were never going to do that. Hard to be too mad given his number, but I'd rather have a flier from the G League at the minimum than Dalen. His highest and best use is as the salary needed to make a trade work.
I wouldn't be looking to make any trades if I were the Bulls because the evidence has shown that every AKME decision is much more likely to be a bad one than a good one.
$30 million? We would never be so lucky. I'm pretty sure AK's starting closer to $40 and that's including the home town discount. Remember, AK's a player friendly VP!
If you don't mind me asking, what would your solution be? Obviously we know AKME are terrible at trading and drafting, but is that really any worse than this current team?
My solution would be to fire AK first. They're already paying Donovan, and while I don't think he's a genius, I think he understands and is better connected around the league than AKME. I'd offer him the job and let him out of coaching as soon as practical.
Would Donovan be my top choice in the long run? No. But as a practical matter, this is a workable and cheap solution that the Reinsdorfs wouldn't have to spend much time thinking about. Which isn't their strong suit.
Donovan's marching orders would be to be as competent as possible without taking on bad salary. What I'd try to pull off would be:
1. Vuc and Taylor to Grizz for Kennard, Roddy, Aldama. This is the only viable trade destination I see for Vuc. They're 0-4, and taking him on for guys who aren't playing much won't torpedo them. It may keep them more afloat until Ja gets back.
2. Pat and Terry to Blazers for Time Lord. The Blazers are going nowhere and they aren't making use of him. He's a better player than Pat, but for the direction everywhere is in, Pat makes sense for them. Throwing in Terry helps our salary.
3. Lonzo (whose contract will be paid 80% by insurance) for Malcolm Brogdon. Same logic... the Blazers are getting cash considerations while they rebuild. This deal saves them literally $14M in cash.
4. I'd peddle Kenard pretty quick if I could for a PG (Vasilie Micic, Monte Morris?) or youngish big (Wiseman, Bagley, Gafford, Achiuwa?) to roll the dice on. But if not, he's a shooter on an expiring contract.
Okay, so let's assume that while you're playing Chess, Jerry is playing Checkers. Let's also assume there's no way in hell Jerry fires AKME after getting his team to the playoffs and the sort-of playoffs.
Now what would you propose?
Edit: Sorry if I'm missing something incredibly dumb, but what do the numbers next to the players mean?
Why would I propose something different? Doing the right thing doesn't depend on who's doing it. The right people are just more likely to do the right thing.
I think he meant the numbers after the names, not the positions. I'm unclear on those, as well. At first I thought it was salary, but when I double checked, those numbers don't match.
I was referring to the numbers after the names. Thanks for the clarification below!
I do understand your thinking about doing the right thing. I guess I was just looking at it from the standpoint of what might be the best case scenario with what the Bulls realistically will have (i.e. Jerry will still own the team and AKME will still head the FO).
I guess the realistic thing is to say they’re gonna do nothing and that’s the best case scenario because every thing they actually do ends up being more of the same.
Yeah I've been talking about possible POR deals and these are solid. I don't know if what the Bulls offer here would be enough since they seem to want picks. They'd probably also want their pick back.
The Dalen signing to me is absolutely atrocious. BaB attributing him to a second or undrafted level player seems generous. Seems like a good guy, but hasn't developed much scoring or floor presence capability in two years. Unless this is some trade filler machinations I don't get it at all
He likely will be in the GLeague all year competing against those types. So we'll see how he does. Interesting to note that he was assigned but Julian Phillips wasn't
The very last stars in the universe will be collapsing into black holes, and the ghost of AK will be sitting around offering a $50 trillion contract to the ghost of Vooch while assuring him that his double-double-machine status will make the Bulls a tough out in the play-in. As the very concept of matter fades into obscurity, the ghost of AK will still be saying to absolutely no one "We went 14-9 after the All-Star break of 2023, that indicates this can be a good team."
I'm more inclined to forgive that, since the product was fun and that team had a super low variance in both directions. They lost every game to better teams and won every game against lesser teams.
We weren't going to win a championship with that team, but it could have been used to move in a positive direction and been fun in the meantime. The lack of movement after Lonzo went down... oof. That's where AKME showed their true colors.
Honest to god, i was hoping the bulls would swoop in and nab harden for lavine and pat. Not that i have belief in harden as some savior, quite the contrary - just need so many more eyes on the bulls at the national level to maybe force some sort of change, or....effort? I mean that's all i want from my front office, that's how bad it is - i just want them to try and i'll be happy.
They should have declined Terry's option. If Terry somehow turns into a player worth keeping around, then great! You'll have plenty of cap space after the firesale this deadline or summer. Who cares if he earns a raise then.
But if he continues to play the way he has (recently being sent to the G League), then he isn't worth keeping and $3.5M isn't nothing. That is still a decent amount of cap space that can make the difference between having enough cap space to sign a certain useful player or not.
I don't get keeping Terry based on what he's shown. He's young. He's been around just over a year. But I think you can make some obvious judgments on him right now. I'd trust the eye test with him.
Now all Lavine has to do is pull a Harden and demand a destination. It seems to work for the player more than not and then the bulls will be forced to do something. Dump him and re-sign Dero
I’m not necessarily against trading Zach but it would almost certainly signal a rebuild, at which point why would you commit big money and years to a going on 35 year old occasional/fringe all-star
If Dalen Terry were on another team, you'd be looking at including him in any deal. You wouldn't have any illusions, you'd just take a look and think "Maybe."
If Dalen Terry's non-contributions are impacting your cap situation (and he is), you have severely fucked your team up (and they have).
I don't hold out much for him but I don't give a shit about a 3rd year option. If he's a 15 mpg contributor next year that will be an adequate investment. If not, well, choke your own filth, Karnisovas, you dog.
"Having LaVine lead late game offense with more Patrick Williams on-ball reps, you better believe that’s a tankin’." The "a" in "that's a tankin'". Made me giggle more than it probably should've. Excellent turn of phrase.
If I'm not mistaken, he was referencing a scene from The Simpsons when Jasper Beardsley becomes a teacher and repeatedly says, "that's a paddlin'".
That's correct, my pop culture references are not up to date
Assuming Philly is perusing the Bulls' clearance rack, what do they have (and are willing to offer) that actually helps us? Not much in the way of meaningful draft picks, even after the Harden deal. And outside of Maxey himself (not happening) I don't see any breakout star candidates on their bench - though I admittedly haven't paid that much attention to their developing players.
I guess if we're just looking to dump DDR's salary at the deadline and and gift him the chance to chase a ring, maybe we take whatever scraps the Sixers offer, but I imagine there are other contenders who could pay more for.a DDR rental (note that I said "could," not "will"). Maybe the dream would be OKC overperforming again and reaching into their cupboard of picks (they literally can't use them all) to rent a veteran for a playoff run.
what makes a draft pick 'meaningful'? you're not getting a near-term and lightly-protected pick for DeRozan at this point, from anywhere
I agree that the Sixers also don't have much in terms of prospects, but that's kind of the Bulls job, right? find someone that another team isn't utilizing. Anybody can win a trade if there's some standout young player received in return, and I don't think DeRozan could get you that. DeRozan+Caruso, maybe.
You pretty much hit on what I'd call "meaningful" but in addition to near-term and lightly protected, I'd add the potential likelihood that the pick is in the top 15-18 or better (lottery-ish). Nothing is certain in the NBA but it's pretty easy to guess which teams will likely be contenders in the next few years. Do I want a '24, '25, or '26 pick that's probably going to be #25 or worse? Is that better than extending DDR or allowing him to pursue a S&T in an offseason when more teams have flexibility (and hope)? I'm not sure.
By the same token, your 2nd paragraph is on the money but perhaps we'd agree that if it's the Bulls' job to find prospects they should avoid dealing directly with the Sixers. And if trading DDR is waving a white flag I don't see any reason to hang onto Caruso, particularly if you can sell high when he's healthy (as that becomes less and less likely with each dive into a jumble of elbows and knees).
> I imagine there are other contenders who could pay more for.a DDR rental (note that I said "could," not "will").
There are points where I give up trying to figure out how NBA execs value things but I would not anticipate a bidding war for DDR.
> Maybe the dream would be OKC overperforming again and reaching into their cupboard of picks (they literally can't use them all) to rent a veteran for a playoff run.
There is some overlap here: the teams that have accumulated things that would make a tempting offer for DDR are many of the same teams that do not value his style of play very highly. OKC would probably just pass him on for some mediocre draft considerations if they happened to acquire him. They certainly aren't desiring to acquire a player like him. The people that run Philadelphia and OKC's franchises are more or less the same people that put into practice ideas that make DeMar's game a somewhat unsavory addition to a modern NBA team. They have a number in their head that DeMar is worth to them. It's just not very high.
Jaden Springer is already great on defense (well, when he learns not to foul out so soon) and has potential on offense.
BBall Paul is a really useful role player and has something the Bulls lack (interior defense + a big who can move his feet on the perimeter on defense against smaller players).
The 76ers just picked up KJ Martin in the Harden trade too.
Korkmaz also asked to be included in the Harden trade and wasn't. That's probably about the 4th time in a few years that he asks to be traded and isn't LOL. Not a prospect though.
Problem is I don't either Lavine or DeRozan make much sense in Philly. They have their two stars in Embiid and Maxey, what they need are high level starters in the mold of Michael Porter Jr and Aaron Gordon in Denver. In that spirit OG Anunoby makes much more sense from a 76ers point of view, for example.
LaVine to the Sixers makes no sense. They already have Embiid, Harris, and Maxey. Harden's absence showed what Maxey can do and adding Zach would only further reduce his touches. Of Mannix's rumors, Anunoby makes the most sense for Philly.
The Dalen thing is confounding but not picking up the option is an admission that they got the draft wrong so they were never going to do that. Hard to be too mad given his number, but I'd rather have a flier from the G League at the minimum than Dalen. His highest and best use is as the salary needed to make a trade work.
I wouldn't be looking to make any trades if I were the Bulls because the evidence has shown that every AKME decision is much more likely to be a bad one than a good one.
cut to next summer: "they CAN'T lose DeRozan for nothing! gotta sign him to $30M"
$30 million? We would never be so lucky. I'm pretty sure AK's starting closer to $40 and that's including the home town discount. Remember, AK's a player friendly VP!
If you don't mind me asking, what would your solution be? Obviously we know AKME are terrible at trading and drafting, but is that really any worse than this current team?
My solution would be to fire AK first. They're already paying Donovan, and while I don't think he's a genius, I think he understands and is better connected around the league than AKME. I'd offer him the job and let him out of coaching as soon as practical.
Would Donovan be my top choice in the long run? No. But as a practical matter, this is a workable and cheap solution that the Reinsdorfs wouldn't have to spend much time thinking about. Which isn't their strong suit.
Donovan's marching orders would be to be as competent as possible without taking on bad salary. What I'd try to pull off would be:
1. Vuc and Taylor to Grizz for Kennard, Roddy, Aldama. This is the only viable trade destination I see for Vuc. They're 0-4, and taking him on for guys who aren't playing much won't torpedo them. It may keep them more afloat until Ja gets back.
2. Pat and Terry to Blazers for Time Lord. The Blazers are going nowhere and they aren't making use of him. He's a better player than Pat, but for the direction everywhere is in, Pat makes sense for them. Throwing in Terry helps our salary.
3. Lonzo (whose contract will be paid 80% by insurance) for Malcolm Brogdon. Same logic... the Blazers are getting cash considerations while they rebuild. This deal saves them literally $14M in cash.
4. I'd peddle Kenard pretty quick if I could for a PG (Vasilie Micic, Monte Morris?) or youngish big (Wiseman, Bagley, Gafford, Achiuwa?) to roll the dice on. But if not, he's a shooter on an expiring contract.
1- Brogdon 18, Caruso 8, Coby 10, Carter 12
2- Zach 34, Coby 14, Ayo, Kenard
3- Caruso 18, DeRozan 18, Brogdon 12
4- DeRozan 16, Roddy 16, Craig 16
4/5- Time Lord 28, Aldama 20, Drummond
I don't know how feasible those proposals are, but I love the concepts.
Okay, so let's assume that while you're playing Chess, Jerry is playing Checkers. Let's also assume there's no way in hell Jerry fires AKME after getting his team to the playoffs and the sort-of playoffs.
Now what would you propose?
Edit: Sorry if I'm missing something incredibly dumb, but what do the numbers next to the players mean?
Numbers are positions.
Why would I propose something different? Doing the right thing doesn't depend on who's doing it. The right people are just more likely to do the right thing.
I think he meant the numbers after the names, not the positions. I'm unclear on those, as well. At first I thought it was salary, but when I double checked, those numbers don't match.
Minutes… each position should add to 48
I was referring to the numbers after the names. Thanks for the clarification below!
I do understand your thinking about doing the right thing. I guess I was just looking at it from the standpoint of what might be the best case scenario with what the Bulls realistically will have (i.e. Jerry will still own the team and AKME will still head the FO).
I guess the realistic thing is to say they’re gonna do nothing and that’s the best case scenario because every thing they actually do ends up being more of the same.
The numbers are the number of minutes per game each guy would play.
Who is Time Lord? Am I missing something regarding Jerami Grant?
Reply to myself. I see it is Robert Williams.
The team you've assembled there is so much better than what the Bulls are putting on the floor right now.
Yeah I've been talking about possible POR deals and these are solid. I don't know if what the Bulls offer here would be enough since they seem to want picks. They'd probably also want their pick back.
Careful - if AKME is reading this they'll take it as permission to continue to not do anything and expect us to like it
The Dalen signing to me is absolutely atrocious. BaB attributing him to a second or undrafted level player seems generous. Seems like a good guy, but hasn't developed much scoring or floor presence capability in two years. Unless this is some trade filler machinations I don't get it at all
He's only been with the team for just over a year. I'm not sold on him improving, but he isn't close to having a full two years with the team yet.
He likely will be in the GLeague all year competing against those types. So we'll see how he does. Interesting to note that he was assigned but Julian Phillips wasn't
That decision I like...Julian Philips already looks more NBA ready.
The very last stars in the universe will be collapsing into black holes, and the ghost of AK will be sitting around offering a $50 trillion contract to the ghost of Vooch while assuring him that his double-double-machine status will make the Bulls a tough out in the play-in. As the very concept of matter fades into obscurity, the ghost of AK will still be saying to absolutely no one "We went 14-9 after the All-Star break of 2023, that indicates this can be a good team."
Don't forget 1st place with Lonzo (losing to every good team)
I'm more inclined to forgive that, since the product was fun and that team had a super low variance in both directions. They lost every game to better teams and won every game against lesser teams.
We weren't going to win a championship with that team, but it could have been used to move in a positive direction and been fun in the meantime. The lack of movement after Lonzo went down... oof. That's where AKME showed their true colors.
Honest to god, i was hoping the bulls would swoop in and nab harden for lavine and pat. Not that i have belief in harden as some savior, quite the contrary - just need so many more eyes on the bulls at the national level to maybe force some sort of change, or....effort? I mean that's all i want from my front office, that's how bad it is - i just want them to try and i'll be happy.
They should have declined Terry's option. If Terry somehow turns into a player worth keeping around, then great! You'll have plenty of cap space after the firesale this deadline or summer. Who cares if he earns a raise then.
But if he continues to play the way he has (recently being sent to the G League), then he isn't worth keeping and $3.5M isn't nothing. That is still a decent amount of cap space that can make the difference between having enough cap space to sign a certain useful player or not.
I don't get keeping Terry based on what he's shown. He's young. He's been around just over a year. But I think you can make some obvious judgments on him right now. I'd trust the eye test with him.
if the option is declined, they can't sign him above the option number
Boy will they look prescient if he’s good enough that he would have gotten more than that on the open market.
Now all Lavine has to do is pull a Harden and demand a destination. It seems to work for the player more than not and then the bulls will be forced to do something. Dump him and re-sign Dero
I’m not necessarily against trading Zach but it would almost certainly signal a rebuild, at which point why would you commit big money and years to a going on 35 year old occasional/fringe all-star
If Dalen Terry were on another team, you'd be looking at including him in any deal. You wouldn't have any illusions, you'd just take a look and think "Maybe."
If Dalen Terry's non-contributions are impacting your cap situation (and he is), you have severely fucked your team up (and they have).
I don't hold out much for him but I don't give a shit about a 3rd year option. If he's a 15 mpg contributor next year that will be an adequate investment. If not, well, choke your own filth, Karnisovas, you dog.
These Pat Williams box scores are becoming high entertainment in context of the contract expectations he leaked