Maybe it's the system that's really bringing the best out of Tre and he wouldn't be as good elsewhere, but this is a pretty big sample size of pretty much elite role player stuff from him. The 2-point efficiency with the Bulls has been crazy good, and he's also pretty much doubled his free throw rate. He's also taking nearly half his shots at the rim, which is also way up. Last night he was smoking Amen Thompson off the dribble over and over again. Seems at this point he's just pretty good and I'm guessing would be in most playoff rotations. And looking at the Rockets, they were giving JD Davison big minutes last night and Reed Sheppard just kinda looks crappy and tiny. They 100% need a PG upgrade.
Yeah, I could see Tre being pretty highly sought after at the deadline this year. Although the Bulls' record is identical to the past three years (great find, by the way!), this seems to be the first deadline in a while where they have several players who will have good-to-great trade value at the deadline. We'll have to see if AK does anything with that, although my bet is he likely won't.
If he wanted to tear this thing down, he'd probably be able to fairly easily. Coby, Ayo, Tre, Okoro, and Smith all have good trade value. Collins, Vooch, and Huerter all have mediocre value but are expiring contracts. AK could just hold a fire sale and collect a bunch of picks/bad salary and tank for the next couple of years, but there's no way he'll do that.
It went through one trade for every team in the West. This was the first mainstream article I saw that highlighted Phoenix's cap situation next year. Mark Williams and Colin Gillespie are both going to be RFAs and the Suns will need to go well into the tax to be able to sign them both. So they either need to let those guys walk, which they don't want to do, or dump major salary.
This article suggested the guy who could go is Jalen Green. He's making $37 million next year and has a player option the year after that, so he's not cheap. But he's a scorer, which we need, and while not as good a shooter as Coby, he can do more on defense and is 2 years younger.
Collins, Williams and the 1st rounder that goes with him for Green?
I'm so unsure about Green. I get the potential that's there, and if we had a team with more defenders, I'd probably be more into it. But until this team gets a quality center that can defend the paint and at least one more starter-level defensive forward, I'm just not sure I'd want Green.
Plus, I don't think I'd want to send out a first for him. My guess is that first would partially be to get off of Pat's contract and I just don't think giving up additional assets to get off his contract makes sense for where the Bulls currently are.
All that to essentially say I'd be more interested if Phoenix were willing to just take back expiring salary for Green. I'm not sure that gets it done though since I'm not sure Green is quite at the Trae Young/Zion this-guy's-supposedly-a-star-but-actually-kinda-sucks level.
Yeah, we need all those things, but I'm not sure it makes a difference in what order we get them. I'm not sure about Green either at $37 million. But if we do it I think we'd be better off keeping as much cap space as we can to get those other guys that we need. That's why including Pat ( and the pick that goes with him) makes sense.
Yeah, I get what you're saying. I think more than making moves in a certain order, I'm more worried about AK making moves that make sense together.
So far under his reign, he's basically never built a team that made sense together. Even that really hot start they had was basically playing Lonzo, Zach, DeMar, Caruso at PF, and Vooch. That's a very mismatched starting five that was sort of just making it work.
I'd be afraid if AK's first move was to get Green that he'd then follow that up by getting another center with limited defensive abilities and we'd have another super lopsided team where one guy is counted on to play all the defense (i.e. Caruso, Okoro).
He wasn't that much better at 22. He scored a few points and slightly better percentages. That was Zach's worst year btw.
Even if Green does improve, i think he is what he is. An empty calories scorer just like Zach is/was. Even if he gets to mid 20s Zach level, it's still not a winning player or anyone worth building around.
You may be right, it's hard to tell where Green will top out. As you say, he's better than Lavine was, and he's also better than Coby is, probably. He can play D a little bit now, but it's hard to say whether he will turn into an all around player.
I agree, and Jones would be an upgrade who'd play on their playoff roster - maybe even start.
but I question whether it's enough of an upgrade for them to use a real asset.
they already traded away this year's first rounder, though they do have all future firsts - a couple with swap obligations - and a two extras (one in 2027, one in 2029)
but on the other hand...if not Jones, then what guard (not making a ton) is available who'd command a first rounder? So for once the Bulls have the scarce commodity.
another issue with Houston is they don't have expiring money to send back, and the 'young players with experience' AK would like are likely not available (Sheppard, Jabari Smith) or set for free agency (Tari Eason) though getting match rights is not nothing
Fred VanVleet would likely have to be assured he's getting some of his 2026-27 money paid if he is going to waive his no-trade. Finney-Smith and Capela look washed so that's bad money the Bulls should be compensated for but they seem so uninterested in that concept. Besides, as bad as Capela looks now, at $7M next season they have some 'competitive' cover to let Vuc and Collins walk. And they can rehab value of these guys by playing in non pressure high paced games.
I think Rockets should want to consider 1st rounder with DFS for Coby. Or 1st+Capela for Jones. Or some combination.
could get more (maybe even another first? doubtful but a swap or 2nds or Eason) if it's a package of Coby plus Jones or Ayo
We should be focusing on Eason. Although he's had some knee problems, he is a starter quality player when healthy. He's due for a big raise and Houston can't afford him. He's only 24 and would be a great fit for us.
I don't know about him. He seemed to be helping the Lakers but they didn't want to keep him. Now on the Rockets he's not even in the rotation. What's the deal, is he washed?
I don't know the details, but he had ankle surgery in the off-season. I think that has been a lingering issue. It looks like he's been on the injury list for most of the year, rather than truly being out of the rotation. He's currently listed as Day to Day, due to that ankle.
This is the kind of roster as yfbb describes that you could do very well with by 1) trading your picks and expiring salaries while keeping your role players to acquire a star or two. Custom built for that. Nets/Kenny Atkinson pre Durant strategy Or 2) selling off your valuable piece parts for middling picks and then also tanking all the way down for a year or two. OKC Presti 'light' strategy. Will AKME understand or implement either?
Presti has done well but it took him 8 years and he started with Westbrook and Durant. He also got a lot of help from Morey, who decided he needed to dump Chis Paul and Al Horford, and gifted both those guys to OKC. And he was there when Ballmer bought the Clippers and decided he wanted to rebuild his new team in two minutes. If opportunities come along like that, AK needs to get in the mix for sure.
Right now Austin Reaves looks like he's going to move, there are several good RFAs whose teams can't afford to re-sign (Easton, Watson, Mark Williams), and the Thunder are probably going to have to let Hartenstein go. There are also several mid level UFAs, like Grimes for instance, that we could have a good chance at, if we offered more than the MLE (since very few teams will have cap space).
Those are the situations that AK should focus on, and if you want him to be like Presti, needs to execute on.
Trading is fine too. The goal just needs to be getting good young players, not bad contracts and draft picks. The point is there are several teams with serious cap issues that HAVE TO DO SOMETHING. They would love to give us their bad contracts and throw us some low level picks so they can re-sign their good guys. We need to hold out for getting some good guys.
I posted a comment yesterday about getting Green from Phoenix. Nobody got excited about it but it is something we could do to get a better player.
Here's one you might like better. Denver would love to sign Watson but are already going to be over the tax line even if the let him walk. So let's say they decide to trade someone else. Jamal Murray is making $50 million next year. With Watson showing he can score, maybe Nuggets decide to get off Murray's salary and spread it around. We could offer right now Jones, Okoro, and expirings, maybe White and Huerter. Add a pick or two. Or do it the offseason without the expirings, and Denver gets a big trade exception to sign whoever they want.
I'm saying good or bad contract aside, there is signing mid players, or getting other mid players with attached draft picks. whether those are good or bad contracts is pretty fungible at that range, for example I don't think Marcus Smart is that much worse than Isaac Okoro where it makes a difference for a team like the Bulls
"Good young players" are not obtainable, especially by the Bulls, unless you draft them or trade assets for them. No team is going to salary dump a good young player IMO
We have cap space, which very few teams will have this offseason. We will be able to pick off a few FAs. That is a valuable assets, much more so than some low level picks.
And our expirings would translate into multiple dollars of luxury tax savings for some teams. For example, Phoenix, as their roster now sits, would have to go $20 million over the tax line, through the 2 aprons, and pay $60 million in luxury tax to sign their 2 FAs. They are definitely going to be dumping. And there is no reason for us to give up those expirings for cheap.
Think bigger. We need to focus on getting more good young players.
you're not thinking bigger you're being delusional
teams will be looking to dump, but they're going to dump their bad (or, charitably, overpaid like who we got for LaVine) players with picks. If the Bulls don't take that deal, another team with cap space will
And I'm all for a bigger trade for a star, but you need draft picks for that (Isaac Okoro is not as valuable for the team trading the star), so get more of those
Sam Vecenie said this a few days ago, but late first round picks really aren't worth much. I looked at picks 21-30 in the drafts from 2018 to 2024. That's 70 draft picks in all. There are only 2 stars out of those 70 (Maxey and Bain) and another 10 starter level players. That's less than a 20% hit rate on picks. Another 30% are rotation players and 50% are busts.
You'd need to accumulate a whole lot of those Hail Mary picks for them to be worth anything, for either us or anybody else.
That stat about the Bulls being 18-21 four years in a row is unbelievable, but the biggest problem is that the front office is not upset about it.
This is what they want! They want to have the same season over and over again and see how long they can get away with it.
This is why I keep ranting about the play-in tournament. It’s given this front office an easy goal that they can achieve without trying.
Basically, nothing will change with this team until there are 9 or 10 teams in the East that are definitively better than them multiple years in a row.
So far I've held to my commitment to never watch a Bulls "play in game." It's simply too stupid. Why not just let all 30 teams make the playoffs after an 82 game season ostensibly intended to separate them into "playoff" and "non playoff" teams. All the play-in does is increase the job security of overpaid nitwits who suck at what they do, such as everyone in a leadership position within the 'dorf org.
Can we talk about Patrick Williams’s terrible performance last night? He had 0 points on 0/6 shooting with only one rebound and two assists in 18 minutes. He’s not even worth salary filler in a trade since he still has 3+ seasons left on his contract.
Pat had a big game against the Magic to get that surprise win with 15 points on 6/9 shooting. He has 12 points on 4/27 shooting in the 5 games since. He's now at a TS% of around 48. He's arguably the worst rotation player in the NBA, though he shouldn't be in the rotation anymore if there are enough playable bodies.
I think that Magic game was either his 2nd or 3rd not-terrible game in a row. And there were questions to Pat about turning the corner, lmao
Billy finally benched him when all of Vuc/Collins/Smith were healthy. It's an indictment on the back end of the roster that Pat plays at all. If Lachlan Olbrich can't step in - and it's pretty much proven he can't - then that's a bad use of a 2-way spot.
That's really shaming Pat, and maybe a bit unfair since technically he's only in the rotation because of injuries, but still, it's tough to make an argument for who's worse.
Looking at VORP, there are only 6 guys worse this year), Bub Carrington, Nique Clifford, Trent Jr. and 3 on the Pels (Peavy, Hawkins and Fears). Maybe if Dumars is trying to win he should stop playing those guys?
My pick for worst player though, is the same guy I've had there for the last couple years, Kyle Kuzma. He can't shoot, rebound, pass or defend. Yet he's still collecting $22 mil this year.
Man I was watching a Bucks game the other day and while he scored a few baskets Kuzma just looked like he was floating around out there. absolutely awful. and to think a few years ago he was a key member of that Lakers title team. I know Middleton is kinda washed but trading a franchise icon for THAT is such a big woof.
Precious Achiuwa - definition of fringe NBA player - on Wednesday finished with 20 points (7-14 FG, 2-4 3Pt, 4-7 FT), 14 rebounds, two assists, two blocks and two steals over 39 minutes
I am pretty sure Pat has never had that much production. He's only hit 14 rebounds once, as a rookie.
I remember commenting here some years ago that the entire strategy and success of this Bulls team/regime hinged on whether Pat became a star (or at least kept ascending each season). If he had become a centerpiece, guys like Zach, DeMar, Vooch, Coby, etc., or whomever else they brought in, were going to be complementary players or 2nd/3rd/4trh options vs. the team's core. Maybe still not a great team construction but as a GM, EVERYTHING looks different when you're building around a star. And stars also lift up role players (look at Javon Carter with/without Giannis, or on the flip side, Tank Commander Payne playing effective playoff minutes after he was laughed off the Bulls).
The fact that AKME never pivoted to a better strategy (and in fact, pushed more chips in on Pat) is probably the biggest indictment I can throw at their tenure.
I’m pro trade everyone but Giddey/Matas/Noa and I’d rather not trade Tre unless a team gives an overwhelming offer out of desperation. 8 mil a year for his production is good but then again we also wasted carusos value on the same contract
Another Bulls guy getting some trade chatter is Okoro. One of the beat guys from the Nuggets, thinking that their team can't afford to re-sign Peyton Watson, suggested a deal that would bring Okoro in as a lower priced wing option, in exchange for Watson. There was more involved to make the salaries work, but I do like the idea of getting Watson.
Now this is something I'm interested in. I don't know much about Watson but it sounds like he's a pretty good defender who has really worked on his offensive game. He doesn't seem like a high volume guy, but he seems like the exact type of player that would fit well next to Giddey and Matas.
I'd like a link because I don't see why the Nuggets would do that. Unless they are getting the Bulls to take Zeke Nnaji or something. (which is fine by me)
Yep, definitely some more money coming back our way. I'll try to find it. And it was somebody just making up a trade, not reporting on actual Nugget FO interest.
What would really be hilarious is if the Bulls held onto everyone for a misguided run at the play-in, then let everyone leave for nothing, then failed to sign anyone of significance in free agency (not that there will be that many options available anyway) because no one wants to play for a team that has won 39 games 3 years in a row.
AK said preseason that the trio that came to the Bulls really respected them because 'we are all about winning', but you're right I think that's a different level of 'winning' that makes stars want to sign
I'll take the other side of that argument. We can bitch as a fan about Karnisovas. He overpays some of his players and sticks with them too long instead of cutting or trading them. He doesn't like to tank, and will play his top players the whole season instead of sitting them the last two months. And he values his current players more than draft picks.
These are all valid points as a fan but from a player's standpoint they are not downsides. A young free agent will see an opportunity to step into a larger role, and help Giddey, Buzelis and the rest of the team get to the next level.
I do think they can corner that market. It doesn't help much to acquire stars, or develop prospects, but they can get in a market of mediocre players like post-prime Vuc and the potential next Vuc, and that's something.
if they could do the other part and sell high when the players 'break out' (due to minutes and usage because they don't care to be very good just ok) then that'd be strategy. Instead they'll let Jonathan Kuminga put up 20 shots a game in march and give him a huge contract extension.
Well us playing Pat makes up for them not playing Lauri.
Williams is so frustrating for me to watch because his shooting form is terrible. He's got huge hands and he tries to spin the ball off his fingers. He's so inconsistent with his release, and has his hands too far in front of his head. There's got to be an ex-NBA player that Bulls can hire to help him.
Not interested in a game where Vuc has more shots (including his 4th? game winner) than Buzelis has minutes played. I was hoping for the double-loss when seeing they blew a 4th quarter lead, but, sigh, Vuc did it again.
Jazz not only held out Lauri Markkanen, but other veterans they usually start Nurkic and Mykhailiuk received DNP-CD (they have back-to-back next night). Brice Sensabaugh had 43 points, was taken with the 28th pick and just turned 22 years old. AK has never selected a player outside of the lottery (or inside the lottery, except Buzelis) who's had a game even close to that production.
weighted-minutes age for both teams:
Bulls - 26.5
Jazz - 22.4
Of course it's not news that The Jazz are trying to build, and the Bulls are trying to be competitive. AK got that coveted home victory, I'm sure in front of a lot of Vucevic jerseys.
Yep, somebody asked Donovan how Vuc is always available when it seems most players now are routinely injured. Billy said he thought Vuc takes his job seriously and feels responsible to be out there every day if he can.
There's really no reason to extend him though, is there? We could sign him into space, or through an exception. Trade him now, get a couple valuable 2nd round picks, and then bring him back in the off season. Win-win.
If you’re looking for more proof that AK is lazy, think about the fact that the last guy he traded for (Okoro) and the next guy he might trade for (Kuminga) were two of the three guys drafted immediately after Patrick Williams.
Basically, AK’s just targeting guys he’s probably already scouted. Why do any new research when you can just reference your old notes from 2020?
Disregard my last post. Kuminga was in the 2021 draft. Although, that point might still stand for Okoro. And I do think overall AK is just focusing on guys he liked in past drafts despite what they’ve done in the NBA.
I don't think they're guys he liked in the draft, just the guys who other teams gave up on. Though it's certainly possible that AK coincidentally liked all the bad players
He hears about the players who are available and only cares about the ones he already scouted.
I’ll say this: the Bulls didn’t trade their 2021 pick until late March of that year. Giddey and Kuminga were the two guys drafted right before the pick the Bulls gave to the Magic. The Bulls probably already scouted both of them before they traded that pick.
I wouldn’t be surprised if AK’s plan for acquiring young players with experience is just trading for guys he considered drafting.
This is per Brett Siegel, so take that as you will, but he says the Bulls want an unprotected first for Coby. On one hand, I'm glad that they seem to want draft compensation instead of an underperforming young player for once. On the other hand, I'm not sure Coby is worth an unprotected first on an expiring contract and with his injury issues this year.
If that is an initial negotiation position with the intention of ending up with a top 4/6 protected pick, that's totally reasonable. I just made up the top 4/6 bit as an example. Not sure what a good value is.
I agree. The only example I can think of where maybe the Bulls could get an unprotected pick is if Detroit wanted Coby and wanted to give up their pick this year, which is currently slated to pick pick 29. But yeah, if it's going to be an actually okay pick, it'll absolutely be protected unless the Bulls are also taking back bad salary.
if Pistons throw in Ivey or even Marcus Sasser then AK will get his 'young player with experience' in addition to *technically* an unprotected first round pick
Pistons have a big TPE too so they could take, like Huerter just to help their March innings-eating
Speaking of unusable websites... I haven't been able to access blogabull.com any other way than just Googling it and clicking on the webpage in about a month. Whenever I type blogabull.com I get the following message:
"Requested host does not match any Subject Alternative Names (SANs) on TLS certificate [5489b8e2fcaa4a61fcc1aefc0f52d762554feabe7901a4472073938f3c38ffcc] in use with this connection.
i've had that issue myself, I have no idea what it's about and haven't spent time trying to figure it. but yes, putting www first seems to do the trick
'unprotected' doesn't necessarily mean 'in the lottery', though I guess using that phrasing may mean that the Bulls are looking for 2027-and-beyond picks and thus using that language
because they could get 2026 pick 'unprotected' from a team that knows they're making the playoffs
I wonder if Boston would be interested. Coby is a better version of Anfernee Simons, and they could get under the first apron and even potentially under the tax depending on the permutation (and likely involving a third team to take a minor salary)
White+Vuc* for Simons+Hauser+Tillman would be a big on-court upgrade, reduce their cap by nearly $6M, plus get out from the 3 more years on Hauser's contract.
Boston currently owns 2026 picks 1st round #25 (own), early second round #32 (Pelicans) and #39 (Bucks)
*I'd bet Zach Collins is more desirable by Boston (and less desired by the Bulls versus the great Vuc) AND he makes less, but who knows if he will even play again this season given his injury history and current vague ailment
My friend (who loves basketball but not so much the business-aspect behind it) sent me a clip today of Kenny For Real on some podcast suggesting a Warriors/Bulls trade.
Bulls get:
Jimmy, Kuminga, two firsts
Warriors get:
Vooch, Collins, Huerter, Williams
I guess the thinking is the Warriors get off two big salaries that they really don't want anymore while freeing up nearly $60 million for this off-season. My guess would be so they can make one final big push with Curry over the next couple seasons.
In exchange for taking on bad salary the Bulls get rewarded with two first round picks. I guess I don't hate the idea. I'm willing to give Kuminga a season-and-a-half to prove he's a good player and I'm fine with eating Jimmy's salary for two firsts.
Plus, it guarantees Vooch and Pat are off the team! Although I'm really not sure Golden State would be open to taking Pat's contract.
Thoughts? Would Golden State even consider this? Would AK even consider this??
AK absolutely not, simply because it would make the Bulls worse this season. Like it or not, that's how he thinks.
But if this deal were really going to happen, I think it would only be for one first. Golden State would know that AK doesn't value picks and would be able to get a deal with only one.
I honestly still think I'd take it with only one first. Especially if the pick is unprotected and a few years in the future when there's a good chance the Warriors are bad.
Not the world’s largest sample size, but the Bulls are now 6-5 without Giddey. Buzelis is also playing some of his best basketball of the season over this stretch.
I’m not saying the team is definitively better without him. But it does look like they’re not really worse without him and that has to mean something. Kinda feels like AK gave $100 million to a guy who’s not really impacting things beyond the box score.
Obviously, Giddey is a much better player than Patrick Williams, but it’s maddening that between the two of them, AK is paying almost $200 million for guys who aren’t positively impacting the win/loss record when they’re on the court (in Patrick’s case, he negatively impacts it).
Giddey is in a different class than Williams, Giddey is like neutral impact and Williams is sub-replacement-level
their play with or without any of these 9-10 good players is pretty similar, and that does say that they are merely good players who can be filled in for. It's when they lost 3-4 of those at once, and have to play the ass-end of the roster (including Pat), that they suffer. But especially given the guard depth, yeah Giddey is no great shakes. He will be called "an all-star before he got hurt" by AK, have no doubt.
Maybe it's the system that's really bringing the best out of Tre and he wouldn't be as good elsewhere, but this is a pretty big sample size of pretty much elite role player stuff from him. The 2-point efficiency with the Bulls has been crazy good, and he's also pretty much doubled his free throw rate. He's also taking nearly half his shots at the rim, which is also way up. Last night he was smoking Amen Thompson off the dribble over and over again. Seems at this point he's just pretty good and I'm guessing would be in most playoff rotations. And looking at the Rockets, they were giving JD Davison big minutes last night and Reed Sheppard just kinda looks crappy and tiny. They 100% need a PG upgrade.
Yeah, I could see Tre being pretty highly sought after at the deadline this year. Although the Bulls' record is identical to the past three years (great find, by the way!), this seems to be the first deadline in a while where they have several players who will have good-to-great trade value at the deadline. We'll have to see if AK does anything with that, although my bet is he likely won't.
If he wanted to tear this thing down, he'd probably be able to fairly easily. Coby, Ayo, Tre, Okoro, and Smith all have good trade value. Collins, Vooch, and Huerter all have mediocre value but are expiring contracts. AK could just hold a fire sale and collect a bunch of picks/bad salary and tank for the next couple of years, but there's no way he'll do that.
I read an interesting article on cbssports.com today.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-mock-trades-every-west-team-klay-thompson-warriors-ja-morant-anthony-davis/
It went through one trade for every team in the West. This was the first mainstream article I saw that highlighted Phoenix's cap situation next year. Mark Williams and Colin Gillespie are both going to be RFAs and the Suns will need to go well into the tax to be able to sign them both. So they either need to let those guys walk, which they don't want to do, or dump major salary.
This article suggested the guy who could go is Jalen Green. He's making $37 million next year and has a player option the year after that, so he's not cheap. But he's a scorer, which we need, and while not as good a shooter as Coby, he can do more on defense and is 2 years younger.
Collins, Williams and the 1st rounder that goes with him for Green?
I'm so unsure about Green. I get the potential that's there, and if we had a team with more defenders, I'd probably be more into it. But until this team gets a quality center that can defend the paint and at least one more starter-level defensive forward, I'm just not sure I'd want Green.
Plus, I don't think I'd want to send out a first for him. My guess is that first would partially be to get off of Pat's contract and I just don't think giving up additional assets to get off his contract makes sense for where the Bulls currently are.
All that to essentially say I'd be more interested if Phoenix were willing to just take back expiring salary for Green. I'm not sure that gets it done though since I'm not sure Green is quite at the Trae Young/Zion this-guy's-supposedly-a-star-but-actually-kinda-sucks level.
Yeah, we need all those things, but I'm not sure it makes a difference in what order we get them. I'm not sure about Green either at $37 million. But if we do it I think we'd be better off keeping as much cap space as we can to get those other guys that we need. That's why including Pat ( and the pick that goes with him) makes sense.
Yeah, I get what you're saying. I think more than making moves in a certain order, I'm more worried about AK making moves that make sense together.
So far under his reign, he's basically never built a team that made sense together. Even that really hot start they had was basically playing Lonzo, Zach, DeMar, Caruso at PF, and Vooch. That's a very mismatched starting five that was sort of just making it work.
I'd be afraid if AK's first move was to get Green that he'd then follow that up by getting another center with limited defensive abilities and we'd have another super lopsided team where one guy is counted on to play all the defense (i.e. Caruso, Okoro).
We already had a better version of Jalen Green with Zach....we saw how that went. no thanks.
Green at 22 was a whole lot better than Zach at 22. And then Zach improved a lot (although unfortunately not on defense). Green should get better too.
He wasn't that much better at 22. He scored a few points and slightly better percentages. That was Zach's worst year btw.
Even if Green does improve, i think he is what he is. An empty calories scorer just like Zach is/was. Even if he gets to mid 20s Zach level, it's still not a winning player or anyone worth building around.
You may be right, it's hard to tell where Green will top out. As you say, he's better than Lavine was, and he's also better than Coby is, probably. He can play D a little bit now, but it's hard to say whether he will turn into an all around player.
I agree, and Jones would be an upgrade who'd play on their playoff roster - maybe even start.
but I question whether it's enough of an upgrade for them to use a real asset.
they already traded away this year's first rounder, though they do have all future firsts - a couple with swap obligations - and a two extras (one in 2027, one in 2029)
but on the other hand...if not Jones, then what guard (not making a ton) is available who'd command a first rounder? So for once the Bulls have the scarce commodity.
another issue with Houston is they don't have expiring money to send back, and the 'young players with experience' AK would like are likely not available (Sheppard, Jabari Smith) or set for free agency (Tari Eason) though getting match rights is not nothing
Fred VanVleet would likely have to be assured he's getting some of his 2026-27 money paid if he is going to waive his no-trade. Finney-Smith and Capela look washed so that's bad money the Bulls should be compensated for but they seem so uninterested in that concept. Besides, as bad as Capela looks now, at $7M next season they have some 'competitive' cover to let Vuc and Collins walk. And they can rehab value of these guys by playing in non pressure high paced games.
I think Rockets should want to consider 1st rounder with DFS for Coby. Or 1st+Capela for Jones. Or some combination.
could get more (maybe even another first? doubtful but a swap or 2nds or Eason) if it's a package of Coby plus Jones or Ayo
We should be focusing on Eason. Although he's had some knee problems, he is a starter quality player when healthy. He's due for a big raise and Houston can't afford him. He's only 24 and would be a great fit for us.
Is he a 3 tho? Seems like a 4 to me and we're trying to develop Matas there so not sure where Eason fits in.
Weve been playing double bigs lately so Buzelis can play more at the 3. He's better there I think. At least for now.
DFS played for Billy at Florida and did very well there. I wonder if that could influence things?
I don't know about him. He seemed to be helping the Lakers but they didn't want to keep him. Now on the Rockets he's not even in the rotation. What's the deal, is he washed?
I don't know the details, but he had ankle surgery in the off-season. I think that has been a lingering issue. It looks like he's been on the injury list for most of the year, rather than truly being out of the rotation. He's currently listed as Day to Day, due to that ankle.
This is the kind of roster as yfbb describes that you could do very well with by 1) trading your picks and expiring salaries while keeping your role players to acquire a star or two. Custom built for that. Nets/Kenny Atkinson pre Durant strategy Or 2) selling off your valuable piece parts for middling picks and then also tanking all the way down for a year or two. OKC Presti 'light' strategy. Will AKME understand or implement either?
Understand, yes. Implement, no.
Presti has done well but it took him 8 years and he started with Westbrook and Durant. He also got a lot of help from Morey, who decided he needed to dump Chis Paul and Al Horford, and gifted both those guys to OKC. And he was there when Ballmer bought the Clippers and decided he wanted to rebuild his new team in two minutes. If opportunities come along like that, AK needs to get in the mix for sure.
Right now Austin Reaves looks like he's going to move, there are several good RFAs whose teams can't afford to re-sign (Easton, Watson, Mark Williams), and the Thunder are probably going to have to let Hartenstein go. There are also several mid level UFAs, like Grimes for instance, that we could have a good chance at, if we offered more than the MLE (since very few teams will have cap space).
Those are the situations that AK should focus on, and if you want him to be like Presti, needs to execute on.
why is Reaves leaving the Lakers?
and all those other guys are mid. instead of merely chancing you can sign them, you can trade for mid guys AND get assets
Trading is fine too. The goal just needs to be getting good young players, not bad contracts and draft picks. The point is there are several teams with serious cap issues that HAVE TO DO SOMETHING. They would love to give us their bad contracts and throw us some low level picks so they can re-sign their good guys. We need to hold out for getting some good guys.
I posted a comment yesterday about getting Green from Phoenix. Nobody got excited about it but it is something we could do to get a better player.
Here's one you might like better. Denver would love to sign Watson but are already going to be over the tax line even if the let him walk. So let's say they decide to trade someone else. Jamal Murray is making $50 million next year. With Watson showing he can score, maybe Nuggets decide to get off Murray's salary and spread it around. We could offer right now Jones, Okoro, and expirings, maybe White and Huerter. Add a pick or two. Or do it the offseason without the expirings, and Denver gets a big trade exception to sign whoever they want.
I'm saying good or bad contract aside, there is signing mid players, or getting other mid players with attached draft picks. whether those are good or bad contracts is pretty fungible at that range, for example I don't think Marcus Smart is that much worse than Isaac Okoro where it makes a difference for a team like the Bulls
"Good young players" are not obtainable, especially by the Bulls, unless you draft them or trade assets for them. No team is going to salary dump a good young player IMO
We have cap space, which very few teams will have this offseason. We will be able to pick off a few FAs. That is a valuable assets, much more so than some low level picks.
And our expirings would translate into multiple dollars of luxury tax savings for some teams. For example, Phoenix, as their roster now sits, would have to go $20 million over the tax line, through the 2 aprons, and pay $60 million in luxury tax to sign their 2 FAs. They are definitely going to be dumping. And there is no reason for us to give up those expirings for cheap.
Think bigger. We need to focus on getting more good young players.
you're not thinking bigger you're being delusional
teams will be looking to dump, but they're going to dump their bad (or, charitably, overpaid like who we got for LaVine) players with picks. If the Bulls don't take that deal, another team with cap space will
And I'm all for a bigger trade for a star, but you need draft picks for that (Isaac Okoro is not as valuable for the team trading the star), so get more of those
Sam Vecenie said this a few days ago, but late first round picks really aren't worth much. I looked at picks 21-30 in the drafts from 2018 to 2024. That's 70 draft picks in all. There are only 2 stars out of those 70 (Maxey and Bain) and another 10 starter level players. That's less than a 20% hit rate on picks. Another 30% are rotation players and 50% are busts.
You'd need to accumulate a whole lot of those Hail Mary picks for them to be worth anything, for either us or anybody else.
ok, but Isaac Okoro and the like is guaranteed 0% hit rate
and besides, what matters is that the rest of the league values picks. So having picks is what is better for trades with the rest of the league.
That stat about the Bulls being 18-21 four years in a row is unbelievable, but the biggest problem is that the front office is not upset about it.
This is what they want! They want to have the same season over and over again and see how long they can get away with it.
This is why I keep ranting about the play-in tournament. It’s given this front office an easy goal that they can achieve without trying.
Basically, nothing will change with this team until there are 9 or 10 teams in the East that are definitively better than them multiple years in a row.
and that is pretty much impossible since there will always be 3-4 teams tanking
So far I've held to my commitment to never watch a Bulls "play in game." It's simply too stupid. Why not just let all 30 teams make the playoffs after an 82 game season ostensibly intended to separate them into "playoff" and "non playoff" teams. All the play-in does is increase the job security of overpaid nitwits who suck at what they do, such as everyone in a leadership position within the 'dorf org.
Can we talk about Patrick Williams’s terrible performance last night? He had 0 points on 0/6 shooting with only one rebound and two assists in 18 minutes. He’s not even worth salary filler in a trade since he still has 3+ seasons left on his contract.
Pat had a big game against the Magic to get that surprise win with 15 points on 6/9 shooting. He has 12 points on 4/27 shooting in the 5 games since. He's now at a TS% of around 48. He's arguably the worst rotation player in the NBA, though he shouldn't be in the rotation anymore if there are enough playable bodies.
I think that Magic game was either his 2nd or 3rd not-terrible game in a row. And there were questions to Pat about turning the corner, lmao
Billy finally benched him when all of Vuc/Collins/Smith were healthy. It's an indictment on the back end of the roster that Pat plays at all. If Lachlan Olbrich can't step in - and it's pretty much proven he can't - then that's a bad use of a 2-way spot.
That's really shaming Pat, and maybe a bit unfair since technically he's only in the rotation because of injuries, but still, it's tough to make an argument for who's worse.
Looking at VORP, there are only 6 guys worse this year), Bub Carrington, Nique Clifford, Trent Jr. and 3 on the Pels (Peavy, Hawkins and Fears). Maybe if Dumars is trying to win he should stop playing those guys?
My pick for worst player though, is the same guy I've had there for the last couple years, Kyle Kuzma. He can't shoot, rebound, pass or defend. Yet he's still collecting $22 mil this year.
Man I was watching a Bucks game the other day and while he scored a few baskets Kuzma just looked like he was floating around out there. absolutely awful. and to think a few years ago he was a key member of that Lakers title team. I know Middleton is kinda washed but trading a franchise icon for THAT is such a big woof.
Precious Achiuwa - definition of fringe NBA player - on Wednesday finished with 20 points (7-14 FG, 2-4 3Pt, 4-7 FT), 14 rebounds, two assists, two blocks and two steals over 39 minutes
I am pretty sure Pat has never had that much production. He's only hit 14 rebounds once, as a rookie.
I remember commenting here some years ago that the entire strategy and success of this Bulls team/regime hinged on whether Pat became a star (or at least kept ascending each season). If he had become a centerpiece, guys like Zach, DeMar, Vooch, Coby, etc., or whomever else they brought in, were going to be complementary players or 2nd/3rd/4trh options vs. the team's core. Maybe still not a great team construction but as a GM, EVERYTHING looks different when you're building around a star. And stars also lift up role players (look at Javon Carter with/without Giannis, or on the flip side, Tank Commander Payne playing effective playoff minutes after he was laughed off the Bulls).
The fact that AKME never pivoted to a better strategy (and in fact, pushed more chips in on Pat) is probably the biggest indictment I can throw at their tenure.
I’m pro trade everyone but Giddey/Matas/Noa and I’d rather not trade Tre unless a team gives an overwhelming offer out of desperation. 8 mil a year for his production is good but then again we also wasted carusos value on the same contract
Another Bulls guy getting some trade chatter is Okoro. One of the beat guys from the Nuggets, thinking that their team can't afford to re-sign Peyton Watson, suggested a deal that would bring Okoro in as a lower priced wing option, in exchange for Watson. There was more involved to make the salaries work, but I do like the idea of getting Watson.
Now this is something I'm interested in. I don't know much about Watson but it sounds like he's a pretty good defender who has really worked on his offensive game. He doesn't seem like a high volume guy, but he seems like the exact type of player that would fit well next to Giddey and Matas.
I'd like a link because I don't see why the Nuggets would do that. Unless they are getting the Bulls to take Zeke Nnaji or something. (which is fine by me)
Yep, definitely some more money coming back our way. I'll try to find it. And it was somebody just making up a trade, not reporting on actual Nugget FO interest.
What would really be hilarious is if the Bulls held onto everyone for a misguided run at the play-in, then let everyone leave for nothing, then failed to sign anyone of significance in free agency (not that there will be that many options available anyway) because no one wants to play for a team that has won 39 games 3 years in a row.
AK said preseason that the trio that came to the Bulls really respected them because 'we are all about winning', but you're right I think that's a different level of 'winning' that makes stars want to sign
I'll take the other side of that argument. We can bitch as a fan about Karnisovas. He overpays some of his players and sticks with them too long instead of cutting or trading them. He doesn't like to tank, and will play his top players the whole season instead of sitting them the last two months. And he values his current players more than draft picks.
These are all valid points as a fan but from a player's standpoint they are not downsides. A young free agent will see an opportunity to step into a larger role, and help Giddey, Buzelis and the rest of the team get to the next level.
I do think they can corner that market. It doesn't help much to acquire stars, or develop prospects, but they can get in a market of mediocre players like post-prime Vuc and the potential next Vuc, and that's something.
if they could do the other part and sell high when the players 'break out' (due to minutes and usage because they don't care to be very good just ok) then that'd be strategy. Instead they'll let Jonathan Kuminga put up 20 shots a game in march and give him a huge contract extension.
We need to focus on getting good young players. That's our market.
Here's a fun trade for you. It gets us four valuable picks.
https://clutchpoints.com/nba/los-angeles-clippers/clippers-perfect-coby-white-trade-offer-to-bulls-as-season-turns-around
These discussions are all well and good, but let’s not lose sight of the main trade question we should be asking:
What will we get back from the Kings when we trade them Josh Giddey in 2028?
Jazz roster snapshot.
https://substack.com/@blogabull/note/c-199943409
they're sitting out Lauri. Last time they did this they were beat by 60 points by the Hornets. Not respectable competition, IMO
Well us playing Pat makes up for them not playing Lauri.
Williams is so frustrating for me to watch because his shooting form is terrible. He's got huge hands and he tries to spin the ball off his fingers. He's so inconsistent with his release, and has his hands too far in front of his head. There's got to be an ex-NBA player that Bulls can hire to help him.
neither are the Bulls after seeing that shitfest
Sloppy game for sure. Jones and White together were a mess.
Not interested in a game where Vuc has more shots (including his 4th? game winner) than Buzelis has minutes played. I was hoping for the double-loss when seeing they blew a 4th quarter lead, but, sigh, Vuc did it again.
Jazz not only held out Lauri Markkanen, but other veterans they usually start Nurkic and Mykhailiuk received DNP-CD (they have back-to-back next night). Brice Sensabaugh had 43 points, was taken with the 28th pick and just turned 22 years old. AK has never selected a player outside of the lottery (or inside the lottery, except Buzelis) who's had a game even close to that production.
weighted-minutes age for both teams:
Bulls - 26.5
Jazz - 22.4
Of course it's not news that The Jazz are trying to build, and the Bulls are trying to be competitive. AK got that coveted home victory, I'm sure in front of a lot of Vucevic jerseys.
Also got this great anecdote from Billy about how much Vucevic tries/cares!
https://x.com/KCJHoop/status/2011645520230695289
Vooch runs on the treadmill. Just think how good Kobe could have been had he just run on a treadmill!
Yep, somebody asked Donovan how Vuc is always available when it seems most players now are routinely injured. Billy said he thought Vuc takes his job seriously and feels responsible to be out there every day if he can.
Vuc knows his season is over in April
it'd be funny if they don't trade him this year and then he just retires
We could win the playin this year.
your guy Brett Siegel threatened Bulls fans everywhere with a report that Vuc is going to get an extension.
There's really no reason to extend him though, is there? We could sign him into space, or through an exception. Trade him now, get a couple valuable 2nd round picks, and then bring him back in the off season. Win-win.
I also saw Vuc got the post-game interview. He has to be leading the team this year in those.
Pat got one a couple weeks ago. Dalen Terry could be next.
If you’re looking for more proof that AK is lazy, think about the fact that the last guy he traded for (Okoro) and the next guy he might trade for (Kuminga) were two of the three guys drafted immediately after Patrick Williams.
Basically, AK’s just targeting guys he’s probably already scouted. Why do any new research when you can just reference your old notes from 2020?
Disregard my last post. Kuminga was in the 2021 draft. Although, that point might still stand for Okoro. And I do think overall AK is just focusing on guys he liked in past drafts despite what they’ve done in the NBA.
I don't think they're guys he liked in the draft, just the guys who other teams gave up on. Though it's certainly possible that AK coincidentally liked all the bad players
Maybe it’s a little of column A and column B.
He hears about the players who are available and only cares about the ones he already scouted.
I’ll say this: the Bulls didn’t trade their 2021 pick until late March of that year. Giddey and Kuminga were the two guys drafted right before the pick the Bulls gave to the Magic. The Bulls probably already scouted both of them before they traded that pick.
I wouldn’t be surprised if AK’s plan for acquiring young players with experience is just trading for guys he considered drafting.
This is per Brett Siegel, so take that as you will, but he says the Bulls want an unprotected first for Coby. On one hand, I'm glad that they seem to want draft compensation instead of an underperforming young player for once. On the other hand, I'm not sure Coby is worth an unprotected first on an expiring contract and with his injury issues this year.
https://www.si.com/nba/bulls/onsi/new-report-shares-what-chicago-bulls-want-in-coby-white-trade-15
If that is an initial negotiation position with the intention of ending up with a top 4/6 protected pick, that's totally reasonable. I just made up the top 4/6 bit as an example. Not sure what a good value is.
I agree. The only example I can think of where maybe the Bulls could get an unprotected pick is if Detroit wanted Coby and wanted to give up their pick this year, which is currently slated to pick pick 29. But yeah, if it's going to be an actually okay pick, it'll absolutely be protected unless the Bulls are also taking back bad salary.
if Pistons throw in Ivey or even Marcus Sasser then AK will get his 'young player with experience' in addition to *technically* an unprotected first round pick
Pistons have a big TPE too so they could take, like Huerter just to help their March innings-eating
that website makes my laptop melt
Use Adguard and Privacy Badger. The web is a much better place with them.
I second what thekiltedwonder said.
Speaking of unusable websites... I haven't been able to access blogabull.com any other way than just Googling it and clicking on the webpage in about a month. Whenever I type blogabull.com I get the following message:
"Requested host does not match any Subject Alternative Names (SANs) on TLS certificate [5489b8e2fcaa4a61fcc1aefc0f52d762554feabe7901a4472073938f3c38ffcc] in use with this connection.
Visit https://www.fastly.com/documentation/guides/concepts/errors/#routing-errors for more information."
Anybody else having this issue?
Yes! Took me weeks to figure it out, but you have to go to www.blogabull.com for some reason.
Thank you! Not sure why I hadn't tried that already.
i've had that issue myself, I have no idea what it's about and haven't spent time trying to figure it. but yes, putting www first seems to do the trick
You can also get here by clicking an article link in your email. As thekiltedwonder said, www.blogabull.com also works
'unprotected' doesn't necessarily mean 'in the lottery', though I guess using that phrasing may mean that the Bulls are looking for 2027-and-beyond picks and thus using that language
because they could get 2026 pick 'unprotected' from a team that knows they're making the playoffs
I wonder if Boston would be interested. Coby is a better version of Anfernee Simons, and they could get under the first apron and even potentially under the tax depending on the permutation (and likely involving a third team to take a minor salary)
White+Vuc* for Simons+Hauser+Tillman would be a big on-court upgrade, reduce their cap by nearly $6M, plus get out from the 3 more years on Hauser's contract.
Boston currently owns 2026 picks 1st round #25 (own), early second round #32 (Pelicans) and #39 (Bucks)
*I'd bet Zach Collins is more desirable by Boston (and less desired by the Bulls versus the great Vuc) AND he makes less, but who knows if he will even play again this season given his injury history and current vague ailment
Nets roster snapshot https://substack.com/profile/3012-your-friendly-bullsblogger/note/c-200852790
Bulls have a home-and-home versus these tankers...but on paper they have somewhat comparable talent, heh
Bulls are actually slight underdogs for this one (on the road)
yeesh, Vuc almost willed them back to another thrilling come from behind victory. Horrible to imagine.
LMAO the Nets are holding out MPJ for rest on monday. Cue one of AK's biggest lies "it's hard to win in this league"
*Sunday
Clippers roster snapshot -> https://substack.com/profile/3012-your-friendly-bullsblogger/note/c-202659202
another break for AK's home record! No Kawhi, and Clippers on 2nd night of a back to back.
My friend (who loves basketball but not so much the business-aspect behind it) sent me a clip today of Kenny For Real on some podcast suggesting a Warriors/Bulls trade.
Bulls get:
Jimmy, Kuminga, two firsts
Warriors get:
Vooch, Collins, Huerter, Williams
I guess the thinking is the Warriors get off two big salaries that they really don't want anymore while freeing up nearly $60 million for this off-season. My guess would be so they can make one final big push with Curry over the next couple seasons.
In exchange for taking on bad salary the Bulls get rewarded with two first round picks. I guess I don't hate the idea. I'm willing to give Kuminga a season-and-a-half to prove he's a good player and I'm fine with eating Jimmy's salary for two firsts.
Plus, it guarantees Vooch and Pat are off the team! Although I'm really not sure Golden State would be open to taking Pat's contract.
Thoughts? Would Golden State even consider this? Would AK even consider this??
AK absolutely not, simply because it would make the Bulls worse this season. Like it or not, that's how he thinks.
But if this deal were really going to happen, I think it would only be for one first. Golden State would know that AK doesn't value picks and would be able to get a deal with only one.
I honestly still think I'd take it with only one first. Especially if the pick is unprotected and a few years in the future when there's a good chance the Warriors are bad.
Not the world’s largest sample size, but the Bulls are now 6-5 without Giddey. Buzelis is also playing some of his best basketball of the season over this stretch.
I’m not saying the team is definitively better without him. But it does look like they’re not really worse without him and that has to mean something. Kinda feels like AK gave $100 million to a guy who’s not really impacting things beyond the box score.
Obviously, Giddey is a much better player than Patrick Williams, but it’s maddening that between the two of them, AK is paying almost $200 million for guys who aren’t positively impacting the win/loss record when they’re on the court (in Patrick’s case, he negatively impacts it).
Giddey is in a different class than Williams, Giddey is like neutral impact and Williams is sub-replacement-level
their play with or without any of these 9-10 good players is pretty similar, and that does say that they are merely good players who can be filled in for. It's when they lost 3-4 of those at once, and have to play the ass-end of the roster (including Pat), that they suffer. But especially given the guard depth, yeah Giddey is no great shakes. He will be called "an all-star before he got hurt" by AK, have no doubt.