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Open Game Thread #78: Bulls at Orlando Magic

Go Magic, Go Bobcats.

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wow
first comment, halfway through the 2nd qtr...Love it!!
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Apr 9, 2008 6:52 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

ha, i was gonna say the same thing
just realized the bulls are playing tonight.  now i know that i don't give a shit.  i can't remember a time in the last 4 seasons when the bulls had a game and i didn't even know they were playing.  i guess die-hard does not mean immortal, cause it is dead around here.

by MarketMaker on Apr 9, 2008 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh yea. . .
I just realized we had two games this past week.  I feel pretty good about it.
At least if we make the playoffs at the 8th seed, Tyrus can get back at Posey for breaking his nose...

by AGBallinisaHabit on Apr 10, 2008 1:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This thread looks like a ghost city
LET'S COLECT SIGNATURES TO FIRE BOYLAN AND GET RID OF HUGHES

by bull83 on Apr 9, 2008 7:06 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Holy crow
I'm shocked - I've never seen BaB so empty.  Matt, maybe we could run some promotions?  Every 100th poster gets a Benny the Bull toilet bowl plunger?  

by Freethefro on Apr 9, 2008 7:12 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Why don't the Bulls start tanking?
What's the point of trying to win?  Everyone's played their normal minutes in the first half, except Gray has played more (and that's only since Noah has 3 fouls).  Why not play guys like Nichols and Simmons and Brown to see if any of them should be back next year?

by Big D on Apr 9, 2008 7:15 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

boylan
said he wasn't going to change his rotation.  and this would have included tyrus if gooden hadn't gotten injured.  at least there's that.
"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Apr 9, 2008 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh
and i'm not defending this.  i think it's dumb.  i'd rather see those guys too.
"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Apr 9, 2008 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am pretty sure
that even if he was hurt, Gooden could play if he wanted to.
Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 9, 2008 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then fire Boylan
Pax has to have made up his mind already not to bring Boylan back (and if he hasn't, he should go along with Boylan).  Why wait if he won't play who the organization tells him to play?

by Big D on Apr 9, 2008 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

even
the orlando announcers were saying paxson should have taken over as coach.
"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Apr 9, 2008 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

At least it's easier to listen to Orlando guys
point out flaws than it was to listen to the Heat announcers last night.  I kept wanting to yell at the TV that their team sucks worse - except they kicked a little Bulls' butt last night.
It takes a special coach to make Aaron Gray a guy you can see.

by wjb1492 on Apr 9, 2008 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

many announcers
are insufferable including those heat announcers last night.  don't know what the hell was up with that one dude's voice.

worst are boston, since i always have to put up with em living here, and most teams have generic-accent announcers, but no, not boston, they MUST have boston accents!!!  so grating.  and now they're not only annoying, they're cocky on top of it.

"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Apr 9, 2008 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tommy-award to Jaina
Tommy-award to Jaina for recognizing that Tommy Heinsohn is the biggest homer in the league.

Others following in the foot steps of legendary homer Chick Hearn must include Red Kerr, and those two wankers from Memphis.

Although grating to listen to, the Heat's announcers don't mince words.  I especially enjoyed their public sentiment that the Bulls should be "embarrassed by [the] loss" in Monday's game.  One pleasant surprise from that broadcast was when Zo (Morning) sat in during the third quarter.  He was/is  extremely articulate and expressed his knowledge for all aspects of the game very well.  I expect to see/hear more of him once he files his papers.

In light of the Bull's performance, Gooks made the broadcast tolerable enough to keep my wife from switching over to her "Dancing with the Stars" tivo.

Who might be the Bull's next announcer be once Kerr sucks his last on-air lolly?  Maybe he and Heinsohn should square off in an off-season one-on-one game, loser retires.

"It is not the same to talk of bulls as to be in the bullring." ~Spanish Proverb"

by VivaLosToros on Apr 10, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it was Charlotte Blogcat
who said that both Heinsohn and Kerr are insufferable homers, but at least Heinsohn uses real words.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

on the flipside
I was really impressed with the Seattle broadcaster, especially since they had Steve "Snapper" Jones.
Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 10, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

haha thanks
yes kerr is also a homer, but since he's senile it's pretty easy to ignore what he says.

the miami people were grating for sure... best part was by far alonzo, because then the other guys weren't talking, and plus as you said he was articulate and also has a pleasant voice.

"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Apr 10, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh
but yeah, the orlando ones were not that bad.

other than the fact they flipped out every time howard dunked.  they acted like it was the greatest thing each time it occurred.

"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Apr 9, 2008 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i agree
would like to see some simmons
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Apr 9, 2008 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm quite honestly
more interested in the Knicks/Bobcats game.  Lets go Charlotte!

by jpchi on Apr 9, 2008 7:16 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

wtf was with the last shot?
i wish the orlando people had replayed it.  it did look late, but of course violet palmer immediately waved it off, and i would have liked to see it again and more closely.
"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Apr 9, 2008 7:17 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I really thought they would play better tonight
and lose it at the end, not in the second quarter.
Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 9, 2008 7:20 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

What the bleep is Boylan thinking?
Noah can't handle Howard's size and strength so you put Tyrus on him?  What the hell does he think is going to happen?  Obviously Tyrus is going to pick up quick fouls.  Boylan's tanking plan is just getting too ridiculous.  Might as well put Duhon on him.

by shoryuken on Apr 9, 2008 7:39 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

the video feed is about a minute behind
so I see the game log update first.  I don't think Gray was even in the lane when he got called for that 3 second violation.
Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 9, 2008 7:45 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Deng!
Deng just took a knee to the gut going to the basket.  Ouch.  The replay makes it look worse.  Hopefully it was just air and not ribs.

by cranscape on Apr 9, 2008 7:50 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

And Gray
got a shot to the nose and is bleeding.  Are we watching hockey?  

by cranscape on Apr 9, 2008 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great call violet
on that sefolosha...how dare he ALMOST touch rashard lewis...if he actually had touched Lewis it should have been a flagrant....hmm...shud i even care enough to defend some of these calls...
Kirk Hinrich. The FORMER Best White American Point Guard in the NBA, Will Soon be Traded :(

by piccolomair on Apr 9, 2008 8:04 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

haha
as soon as i saw that i knew some1 would put up viloets crappy knowledge. every1 knows shes bad, but wat can u do? if u let her go, ur gonna get sued for sure.
Ralph Wiggum, a smarter man than Jim Boylan

by Yibs on Apr 9, 2008 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh no!
The Bobcats are behind against the knicks
LET'S COLECT SIGNATURES TO FIRE BOYLAN AND GET RID OF HUGHES

by bull83 on Apr 9, 2008 8:09 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Boylan's timeout peptalk:
"We're hurting on two key areas..Number 1, we need more Nocioni wild, spinning, limb-flailing, lane drives. Number 2, I got to have more cow bell!"

Tanking security : Playing Tyrus Thomas at center against Dwight Howard. Not as obvious as using Noc at center, but darn close.

by RogersPark Kris on Apr 9, 2008 8:10 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

oh charlotte is close..
76ers beat detroit and wizards beating boston? bulls suck? tonights a crazy night.

by BG74EVER on Apr 9, 2008 8:24 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

More Boylan Logic
Hey Kirk Hinrich is on fire in the 3rd quarter.  With him on the floor, we have cut the deficit down to single digits.... So let's bench him the entire 4th quarter!  Hellooooooo ping pong balls!

by shoryuken on Apr 9, 2008 8:26 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Boylan = Wet Blanket
Perhaps he is doing us all a favor.  

by cranscape on Apr 9, 2008 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

check out the plus minus for the game
it's pretty ridiculous.
Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 9, 2008 8:39 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow, Kirk
is the only one with a + and it was only a +1. I didn't get to watch the game but recorded it and will watch it tomorrow. Kind of ugly huh?

by sue369 on Apr 9, 2008 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol - Kirk was guaranteed a decent night
because I forgot to set the DVR to record this game.  I realized this afternoon and briefly thought about running home between classes, but figured there was no point the way the team has been playing.

It's probably for the best, though.  I'm sure there was plenty to piss me off in between.

It takes a special coach to make Aaron Gray a guy you can see.

by wjb1492 on Apr 9, 2008 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

haha
Thabo  -42 !!

Not that I put much faith into the +/- system, but when you only have ONE player with + rating, you probably should play him for more than 25 minutes.... And you probably shouldn't bench him the entire 4th quarter.

I wish i was a post game interview reporter.  So many many many questions....

by shoryuken on Apr 9, 2008 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Boylan had
Kirk on the bench the whole 4th?

by sue369 on Apr 9, 2008 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah Kirk had 9 pts in the 3rd quarter
so Boylan benched him for the rest of the game.  Meanwhile, the Bulls were -22 during the 4th quarter

by shoryuken on Apr 9, 2008 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll bet
Pax was impressed. Sheesh I can't wait until Boylan is gone.

by sue369 on Apr 9, 2008 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually I think Paxon gave the order
to start tanking.  There's no other explanation for the ridiculous guard rotatoins.  And there is certainly no explanation for why Tyrus was stuck guarding Dwight Howard.  The only thing missing was a 5 guard lineup.

by shoryuken on Apr 9, 2008 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tyrus was guarding Howard ...
so we can build his confidence!

by Prevenge on Apr 9, 2008 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Give boylan too much credit?
Maybe today was a test, kirk you must score in the double figures today, if you succeed you pass for the day. Maybe its more then a day, ill be at the game on friday (won tickets off of ebay, 100 bux for section 106 row G) and since it is Kirk Hinrich Youth Jersey night, maybe kirk will light up the Cavs (lebron wont be playing so it wont be Team James) and maybe so will Hughes. Since ill be behind the backboard, heres for kirk doing a bunch of layups....sorry im trying to get fired up for a meaningless game....its working by the way.
Kirk Hinrich. The FORMER Best White American Point Guard in the NBA, Will Soon be Traded :(

by piccolomair on Apr 9, 2008 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

-42 in barely over 24 minutes!
So the Bulls were (on average) outscored by nearly 2 points per minute while Thabo was out there?  That's rough!  On second thought, I'm glad I didn't get to see it.
It takes a special coach to make Aaron Gray a guy you can see.

by wjb1492 on Apr 9, 2008 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That +/- is some serious bullsh!t......
...and I really don't give a damn about it.  If your team wins you could have played badly and still end up + and if u lose but play well you could still end up with a - so i don't put much credence into that.  That's for fantasy nerds.  Get out there and put that work in.  If they pass the "eyeball" test then they good wit me.

Arroyo had a +43, but do you mean to tell me he had more of an impact on the game than Howard who had a +30?

Deng had a 0 and look how shitty he played.

Fu@k that +/- shit.  I want some damn wins (well, not really at this point so we can get ping pong balls, but I just want guys who are gonna get out there and ball).

by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 9, 2008 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+/- has absolutely nothing to do with fantasy
You don't have to give a damn about it, but plenty of people do like it.  You just have to understand what it means - Thabo may or may not have played well individually, but the lineups he was part of were still outscored by nearly 2 points while he was on the floor.  I find that interesting - not a comment on him or his value, specifically, but a comment on team performance.

Feel free to stick to your "eyeball" test - most of the stats geeks do the same and use stats to confirm or round out their opinions based on what they actually saw.  It doesn't have to be one or the other, you know.

It takes a special coach to make Aaron Gray a guy you can see.

by wjb1492 on Apr 9, 2008 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

whatever nerd
Order another twinkie from mommy, and change your underwear.
Stephen Curry is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Apr 9, 2008 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry, I'm too busy doing my stats homework
It takes a special coach to make Aaron Gray a guy you can see.

by wjb1492 on Apr 9, 2008 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We are blog readers.
We are all nerds then.  So push up your glasses and get over it.

by cranscape on Apr 9, 2008 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

hate to self promote
but I've actually blogged, "bloggeur," and consider linking to streaming video of a statty sports business conference my highest achievement.
Stephen Curry is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Apr 9, 2008 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jameer Nelson makes me nervous
about what we might be getting if we draft DJ Augustin.

Is Augustin too small?

by alec on Apr 9, 2008 9:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You know, other than Rose,
I don't really think there's anyone else in the draft that could even reasonably start at PG next year.  Even Rose I think would struggle a little, just being so young.
It takes a special coach to make Aaron Gray a guy you can see.

by wjb1492 on Apr 9, 2008 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Small PGs do not do well in the NBA
The only exception I can think of is Chris Paul... And Augustin is certainly no Chris Paul

by shoryuken on Apr 9, 2008 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

considering point guards are small by nature
I'm gonna guess you're way off.
Stephen Curry is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Apr 9, 2008 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are forgetting about....
... Damon Stoudamire in his Toronto years.  That's actually who Augustin kind of reminds me of.

Stoudamire's cumulative stats as a Raptor:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=stoudda01&y1=19 98

by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 9, 2008 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yeah!
Damon was a good (but not great) player.  His Toronto numbers are a bit skewed though cause he was on such a crappy team (Oliver Miller anyone?). I think his Portland stats are a better measuring stick of Stoudamire's peak performance on a contending team.  He was good in Portland, but not a game changer.  I think Augustine has a better jumper, but it seems that his ceiling would be similar to Damon's.  A good starter, but not superstar quality.  But again I just don't believe in PG's under 6'1"  =)

by shoryuken on Apr 9, 2008 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

MAN.....
..we are so garbage.  It hurts my heart to go through this.  I remember back in the early 80s (pre-MJ) when the Bulls were super garbage.  It didn't hurt this bad....DAMN!!!  

We had better not give Deng 50 million dollars.  My gut tells me that both he and Gordon will receive an offer from someone that exceed that amount though and I'm not sure we should match with either (although if you held my feet to the fire then I'd match Gordon before Deng because this guy simply isn't the impact guy we need him to be on this team).  But in truth we made HUGE contract mistakes and I understand why Gordon and Deng turned down the 50 mil.  If Hinrich and Noc can get paid they figured they could too.  Gordon is a better pure pro than Hinrich and Deng is a better pure pro than Nocioni so they figure they are worth substantially more.  Bottom line is we are just up shit creek!!

by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 9, 2008 9:27 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The team quit a long time ago
It's extremely difficult to judge the current talent pool when pretty much every player is chucking at will.

This season can't end fast enough.

by RogersPark Kris on Apr 9, 2008 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I ain't judging them based on now.
I'm judging them based on the last 3 years.  It just caught up to us this year.  All that nice guy stuff doesn't work....and it turns out they really aren't all nice guys.  Hinrich didn't just forget how to play point.  He never knew how.  Deng didn't just stop showing up down the stretch. Truth is he only does it against Miami (playoffs last year and the other night against their D-League team).

I remember looking on here early in the season and telling people we cannot start this losing early in the season again and people continued to say, "We always start slowly".  Bull!!!  We have been garbage.  You can't win championships playing like we have the past couple years.  We need more efficient players with higher skill levels.  No one can deny that over the past couple years we have had to work FAR too hard for victories.

by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 9, 2008 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Love/Donte Greene/Deandre Jordan/Chase Budinger
What do you guys think about these fellas?  In all likelihood we're gonna end up picking at around 8/9 or so and these are some of the names we'll probably be looking at since Rose/Beasley/Bayless/Gordon/Mayo will in all likelihood be gone.

I like a bit of what each brings to the table, but I'm so desperate for a superstar that I don't know what to do.  In truth, I like Greene and Budinger.  I think both these guys will be 20ppg guys in the NBA at some point.  I LOVE kevin Love.  I see kevin mchale all over again.  I don't know much about Jordan, but I really don't care for guys who still have so far to go ino order to be offensively efficient....and I really don't want another LSU forward.  Why take another one when we already have one?

Who do you guys like?

by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 9, 2008 9:46 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

"I see kevin mchale all over again."
Woah! Keep the draftiness down a notch until draft day.
Stephen Curry is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Apr 9, 2008 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Shit, I do see that type of player!!!
Not to say he's going to be a hall of famer or anything but he's in the McHale mold.  Not going to get the best of anyone athletically but he's big, highly skilled and uses his hands and feet well.  Surrounded by the right people (we have one of the "right" people in Noah) he could be a major player at the next level.  He can be close to a double double guy.  Not a Dwight Howard 23pt 15rb double double guy, but a more pedestrian 14pt 8rb kind of guy.  Wherever he goes though, he's gotta run some of that fat off.  Then he'll really be tough.  MUCH better than Hansbrough.  That's one dude I DO NOT want to see in a Bulls uniform!!!

But I'll take either of the guys I mentioned above...except the LSU forward Randolph...LOL.

by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 9, 2008 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or he could be the next *gulp* Michael Sweetney
if he doesn't lose the fat.  Overweight, undersized PF, plays below the rim.... Sound familiar?  I am a Love fan, but he's been 20 lbs overweight while in college, so I'm skeptical that he will lose any weight in the future.

by shoryuken on Apr 9, 2008 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

IMO
He's peaked in college.  From what little I've seen, cross between Laettner and Haslem.  And not in a good way.
BAB Tyrus Love-Meter -- 7 - Debating whether Moses Malone was better in his prime than Tyrus right now.

by cubbybear on Apr 9, 2008 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kevin McHale. 6'10'' 210 lbs.
His slithery game was all spindly arms and legs.  Love's bones weigh more than Kevin McHale.  A couple of times here people have compared Love to Brad Miller, which I believe is a lot more apt.

by alec on Apr 9, 2008 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A short Brad Miller.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 10, 2008 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

a shorter Evan Eschmeyer
A medium Sikma!
A betweeny Eaton!
A pint-sized Shawn Bradley!
A meatier Bird!
A lovable Tom Chambers!
Stephen Curry is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Apr 10, 2008 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A tall Twyman for these times!
Dolph Schayes Deux!
Wraparound shades of Bob Pettit!
Stephen Curry is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Apr 10, 2008 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The only
comparison we should make about Kevin McHale is between him and Paxson as GMs.

by jpchi on Apr 9, 2008 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

K.Love
Kevin Love's ceiling is Brad Miller.  And that's being generous.

by Stay Chisel on Apr 10, 2008 1:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Chase Budinger...
As a U of A fan it saddens me to say this but...

This is a guy who won the McDonald's All American Slam Dunk Competition, and yet was so soft (afraid to take it to the hole) at Arizona.

Obviously he possesses great physical gifts. but if he's soft at U of A, what do you think he'll do in the NBA?

I probably watched every U of A game this year, and this guy just never got it going with any consistency. Bayless came in and took over a leadership role (even though Budinger is a sophomore), but as soon as Bayless got hurt for a stretch (or even when Nick Wise went down), the Cats just seemd to crumble under the pressure.

He's probably leaving because the Cats will be awful without Bayless next year (Brandon Jennings not withstanding).

He'd do well on a team as a sixth man, but the Bulls can do better with their pick.

Now Bayless however would be a solid pick (except the Bulls already have Gordon, who is pretty much a carbon copy).

by Khalid El-Amin on Apr 10, 2008 1:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Promote Paxson
to President of Basketball Operations, and then hire a GM with vision and purpose and then get rid of Boylan now!  Mgmt changes now would create more excitement than these last few games.  Jerry R. wouldn't lose much money firing Boylan now with so few games left.

by exult463 on Apr 9, 2008 10:05 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

MVP Awards go to........
Jim Boylan...NBA Coach of the Year

Violet Palmer...NBA Title 9 Referee of the Year

Chicago Bulls...NBA 4th Quarter Comeback Team of the Year

Aaron Gray...Johnnie "Red" Kerr Rookie of the Year

Tyrus Thomas...Chicago Bulls Fan Favorite Most Hated by Coaches and Fellow Teamates of the Year

Andreus Nocioni...Provider of Best Highlight of the Year..(for throwing a towel at Boylan)

Joachim Noah...Best Comment of the Year  (for asking Ron Adams how many championships has he won?)

Chris Duhon...Best Bulls Point Guard of the Year...actually he is their only point guard

John Paxson...Executive of the Year   for having the foresight to retain Jim Boylan so that the young players can develop to their fullest under his tutilage

Ben Gordon/Larry Hughes...Bulls Team Players of the Year

Luol Deng...Best Bulls performer of the year when the game is not on the line.

Kirk Hinrich...Most colorful whiner of the year.  Andreus Nocioni was a very close second.

And finally to the entire Bulls Organization for achieving more than one two game winning streak over a short 82 game season.

Are there any others that I missed fellow sufferers.

by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 9, 2008 10:14 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Awards (continued)
A couple more late breaking awards impacting the Bulls have just come to my attention:

The American Foundation of the Blind have just named Jim Boylan their Man of the Year.  He is the first sighted recipient of this prestigious award but was a runaway winner, being the first NBA coach to go almost an entire season making decisions and  calling plays with his head firmly stuck up his ass, thus qualifying for the trophy.
and
Ben Wallace, although not finishing the season was still the winner the Chicago Bulls
Offensive Player of the Year,  Can any fan think of a player who was more offensive than Big Ben?
 

by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 9, 2008 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We're doing well in this race to the bottom
Competing, you know.
BAB Tyrus Love-Meter -- 7 - Debating whether Moses Malone was better in his prime than Tyrus right now.

by cubbybear on Apr 9, 2008 10:37 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Heh
Well find a way to lose and somehow end up with pick 30, or trade our pick and watch another team use it to become contenders, or pick a player in the draft while the player right after him blossoms into a star and were stuck with a dud....somehow...well lose...nba...where losing happens....
Kirk Hinrich. The FORMER Best White American Point Guard in the NBA, Will Soon be Traded :(

by piccolomair on Apr 9, 2008 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess after what we did
against Miami, we can't be upset with Charlotte's game against New York tonight.

by alec on Apr 9, 2008 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's like a reverse arms race
"No, we can lose more pitifully!"

Little do they know, they are going against masters of surprising ineptitude!

BAB Tyrus Love-Meter -- 7 - Debating whether Moses Malone was better in his prime than Tyrus right now.

by cubbybear on Apr 9, 2008 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The scary thing . . .
Is that I don't think the Bulls are tanking, at least not intentionally.  They just really are this bad.

by Big D on Apr 9, 2008 10:38 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

"We give up!"
I only followed this game by CBS gamecenter and just caught snippets of the Heat game, but this core group is done this year - maybe it's done forever.

These guys are thinking about their golf games.  The organization should withhold 8.5% of their salary - that's 7 games worth of quitting starting with Tuesday's Heat game.  Maybe they can dole it out to the season ticket holders.  Their effort level in these 2 games makes sick.  Sadly, it's been a season long trend.

Best thing about this game was that they used a patented -20 4th quarter in a game they were already out of.  You know, instead of saving it for one they were winning.

I'm going to the game Friday against the Cavs. This was supposed to be a big-time showdown when I bought the tix; what a difference 8 months makes.  Should I bring:

  • a paper bag for my head, or
  • a sign that reads "Don't Quit Yet! We paid for these seats!"
The bag could be used for vomiting if things get really bad...
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy

by mdmnd9294 on Apr 9, 2008 10:47 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe both
Maybe start a rendition of "Let My Tyrus Play" a la Ferris Bueller
BAB Tyrus Love-Meter -- 7 - Debating whether Moses Malone was better in his prime than Tyrus right now.

by cubbybear on Apr 9, 2008 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tyrus...
Has played pretty subpar in extended minutes over the last two games.

by Khalid El-Amin on Apr 9, 2008 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't the point to get him to get better
Which presupposes that he plays worse now than he will.  There's no downside to time.
BAB Tyrus Love-Meter -- 7 - Debating whether Moses Malone was better in his prime than Tyrus right now.

by cubbybear on Apr 9, 2008 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just saying...
He doesn't look good, and you could even argue that against a depleted Miami roster (yesterday) he should have dominated.

I'm not saying he's a bust, but I don't think we should count on him to carry the team (or even start) next year either.

by Khalid El-Amin on Apr 10, 2008 12:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

against miami
he really wasn't good, though he had 8 reb.

last night though he had 10 pts, 6 rebounds, and 5 blocks in 26 minutes, against a team with dwight howard.

not so bad.  he's a young guy.  he's going to have his ups and downs.  i'm glad he's getting this chance.

the orlando guys said he was avging about 11 pts as a starter, which isn't too shabby at this point.

"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Apr 10, 2008 7:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

5 blocks is impressive.
Against anybody.

I don't think he sucks, I just don't think he's good enough to be a starter. And what's worse is when HE thinks he should be a starter.

We'll see how next season shakes out, but I would expect more shenanigans from TT (and a few other Bulls too). No reason to think otherwise really.

by Khalid El-Amin on Apr 10, 2008 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

these games are beyond pointless
the Bulls are quitting by the time the national anthem ends, I wouldn't look at anything any single player does in these games, good or bad, with merit.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's how I see it as well.
With the team seriously tanking at this point, it is silly to point out one guy and say he didn't look good in a game. If no one is playing with much interest around you it would be difficult to have a good game even if you wanted to.  Some of these guys do need to have good games though.  It just isn't going to happen at this point since the season for us is over and losing would be more advantageous for the organization.

by cranscape on Apr 10, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If that's his excuse then trade him now...
He (and almost everyone in here) cried all year because they screwed with his minutes, and now that he gets minutes you're telling me he doesn't want them? Because the games are pointless? The Bulls haven't had a meaningful game in over a month.

He probably hasn't played well because (here's the shocker) he's really not that good.

Either way, you really should consider changing the name of this blog to acurately reflect the multitude of Tyrus Thomas excuses made.

by Khalid El-Amin on Apr 10, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You don't seem to get it.
Do you really expect one player to have a great game if the 10+ other players are throwing lazy passes, not playing good defense, not trying at all?  I don't know if he is trying any harder than any other guy out there last night, but if he was he'd be playing against his own team as well as the opposition.  If you watched the game you can see the team sucked/gave up/tanked (or in the case of Hinrich, benched after showing a spark of life in the 3rd).  This really isn't the game to base the reputation of a single player on.  Unless you want to base the careers of Deng, Gordon, Hinrich, Thabo and everyone else by their effort in this game.  In that case the entire roster is trash.  So your point is what again?  To judge Thomas by standards you wouldn't judge anyone else by last night?    

by cranscape on Apr 10, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually his last 4 games...
Have been dredful.

But whatever you need to tell yourself to keep your man crush in tact is fine.

by Khalid El-Amin on Apr 10, 2008 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol
As a woman I do find Thomas kind of cute, but that's about it.  I am much more fond of Noah over Thomas as a player actually. I just don't think that a season like we've had is a good estimation of a young guy like Thomas.  I am more worried about Deng disappearing in long stretches of games and Gordon leaving a 20 pt unfulfillable hole in our line up when he leaves.  To me Thomas is not a bigger problem than those things.

by cranscape on Apr 10, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed...
Obviously one of them (Luol or Gordon) probably has to go given the cap dilemma.

Personally I'd like to see Luol stay, but I agree that Gordon's points will be difficult/impossible to fill on this current roster.

It sucks both ways.

TT however will be here for the next two years if they want him.

Ugh.

by Khalid El-Amin on Apr 10, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As a woman,
I also find Tyrus to be the sexiest, not necessarily the best player though.  From the below average play we've seen this year, I'd have to agree with everyone here and say Joakim Noah is the only one who plays every night like he wants to win.  The Denver game with the kids playing because they were the only ones left, was by far the best game this season if that means anything for the future.  
At least if we make the playoffs at the 8th seed, Tyrus can get back at Posey for breaking his nose...

by AGBallinisaHabit on Apr 10, 2008 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sexiest, huh?
Made me stop and think for a second.  If you women look at the all-star teams, how do they rank on the sexy scale?  Second question, how do Pax, Skiles, Reinsdorf and Boylan rank?  Things that make you say, hmmmm.

by California Al on Apr 11, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pointless...good point.
The odds are identical for the 8th or 9th seed to jump up into the top three.

However, there is a slight statistical advantage in having the 8th vs. the 9th seed, in that the 8th seed can only fall back as far as the 10th pick, while the 9th could fall back to the 11th.

That's what we're playing for here, folks...that, and some actual court time for Tyrus.  I can't think of what else.

by alec on Apr 10, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm guessing you got your info...
...from wikipedia?
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 10, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I did, actually.
Is their math wrong?

by alec on Apr 10, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Their table is for last year...
...when there were identical records. It's an easy mistake to make, I guess...
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 10, 2008 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly
and this is why the Bulls wasted the season.  You don't give Tyrus burn during the last week of the season if you want to see what he has.  You do it the last month of the season after realizing that even if the team crawled into the 8 seed, it would be as a sub-.500 sacrificial lamb to Boston.  This last week doesn't tell you much, and can actually contribute to bad decision making.

And I think there's one thing that Tyrus has told us emphatically this year and that is that Tyrus is a 3 and not a 4.  The Bulls can say he should be a 4 all they want, and they probably will, but if a guy is a 3, or a hybrid 3/4 at best, realize it while you can still develop that talent.

by messwiththebull on Apr 10, 2008 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh, you so had me
then lost me half way through :)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I say...
...let him develop like a 3 for now, if he wants, but continue to play him at the 4. Match him against the other PF's on defense where he'll be close to the basket, and if you put out there with two guards, a SF and a C, he'll have to play offense as such, too. If he wants to develop a jump shot and his dribbling before more post moves, fine. He's already okay as a back to the basket guy, which I don't believe is using his strengths anyway.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 10, 2008 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tyrus has been a prime offender
And it's been rumored he wasn't trying to play within the team earlier!  Listening on the radio, it sounds like he's been just sloppy; taking quick jumpers and losing rebounds out-of-bounds.

Maybe Pax will answer the inevitable question this summer with, "I wouldn't quite use the term 'bust', but I have to admit that Tyrus is not playing to the level we expected when we drafted him.  And I'm only admitting this publicly in the hope that he gets pissed off enough to be motivated to meet or exceed those expectations."

"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy

by mdmnd9294 on Apr 9, 2008 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't Give Up
In your depressed state you have forgotten the Bulls have a secret weapon that could almost guarantee a victory. Big Ben Wallace plays for Cleveland now and if he gets enough burn, the Cav's will likely go down in flames.  Even the Bulls are capable of rising out of the gutter to a state of mediocrity with Ben's help, which should be enough to notch a victory.  Remember the last time these teams met, Ben was in the game at crunch time and the Cav's went 6 minutes without a field goal, even with LBJ on the  court.

Never say die.  It ain't over till its over and the Bulls are just unlucky enough to start winning now so they can move down the  ladder in the draft, just like the hapless Bears did last year.  

by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 9, 2008 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hopefully ...
he missed another crucial dunk in crunch time.
But this time, they have to lose by 2.

by Prevenge on Apr 9, 2008 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not giving up...
"We give up" was my impression of the team mantra since the close of the 3rd quarter in the Heat game.  It continued right on into today.

Now that I think about it - I have given up on this year, just not the Cavs game.  I'll never discount "The Corpse Factor".

Besides, this is still the same team that man-handled the Jazz in the UC last month.  So they're capable of pretty much anything but consistency.

"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy

by mdmnd9294 on Apr 9, 2008 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That Lebron James
I'm willing to up the Bulls offer to Deng, Thomas and Noce!

Let's do that trade!

BAB Tyrus Love-Meter -- 7 - Debating whether Moses Malone was better in his prime than Tyrus right now.

by cubbybear on Apr 9, 2008 11:41 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Even better idea!
How about no?!
"to the children: Fuck the Bulls." - Matt

by NittanyBull on Apr 9, 2008 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Noah getting 5 fouls
in 17 minutes is in a way what these meaningless games are all about. Ditto for Thomas and his 4 fouls in 20something minutes. In my opinion those two players should have played more, since they had 3 fouls left between them.

But Boylan, you jackass, you still don't get it.

Look, one of two things is happening here. Either Boylan is exercising his world renowned discretion and playing the veterans in meaningless minutes, and thus sacrificing valuable PT for Noah/Thomas/Sefolosha/Simmons/ Nichols/Brown (where the hell was Brown anyway?) Or he was doing what Pax told him to do, in which case Paxson is just a jackass.

Interesting angle on Duhon getting some burn, by the way:  in Marcus Fizer's last game as a Bull, everyone, even the kids riding tricycles at halftime, knew that Fizer's days as a Bull were over. The Bulls played Fizer like 39 minutes and called iso after iso for him. He ended up with like 32 points.

By playing him that much the organization was making a nice gesture, and I see their treatment of Duhon the same way.

It is sad, though, how pathetic the whole situation is. Now it's worse, because we have not one, but at least 3 players in Fizer's position (Du, BG and Deng).

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 10, 2008 12:33 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Hahahaha!
Yes, Boylan sucks and needs to go, but should Pax be thrown under the bus too?  Pax has failed through and through running this franchise.  Not only did his young players receive horrible coaching, they must have the worst strength and conditioning coaches in the NBA.  It is the end of the season and you can clearly see that several players on this team are terribly out of shape.  Soft! I am so glad I did not watch any of this game.  I opted to watch the 15 inning Cubs game. I am so disgusted with this whole franchise and the lack of accountability by management.  I have not seen Pax since his hiding in the corner of the U.Center the first game after he traded for Gooden and Hughes.  Fire the whole lot and offer a management coaching deal to .... someone that deserves the opportunity..... Laimbeer? K?

by BiNgO on Apr 10, 2008 9:01 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

our only hope now is that david stern rigs
the lottery for the bulls similar to what he did for the spurs when they had that random bad year back in 1997.  we all know how that ended up for the spurs.  maybe the bulls will fall upon that same "luck"

I haven't really been able to watch these past couple games because of my job, and the early east coast games, but i am glad i have been missing them.  I am still shocked at how poorly this team has played this year, and what a terrible coach boylan is.  If only the pacers hired him, maybe things would have been different for this bulls team post-skiles.

glad to see noah taking the reigns, however, and speaking out against the shitty way this team has played all year.  i would expect him to be one of the captains next year.  It would be well deserved, him and thabo have been the only bright spots in this dark and sad season.

by Conor on Apr 10, 2008 12:35 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

yes, David Stern's master plan
included getting that San Antonio franchise to the forefront of the league.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well his master plan worked then
San Antonio is basically the model of how to run a successful NBA franchise...
And it all started when David Stern rigged the Lottery so the Spurs could draft Duncan, and Robinson could then mentor him and turn him into what he is today.
case closed

by Conor on Apr 10, 2008 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

glad to see you come
to your senses

unrelated question, but who would like to see the bulls draft?  Whose game are you liking?

by Conor on Apr 10, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes, I've come to my senses
and realized that you can't detect sarcasm...

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

dammit
i did pick up on your sarcasm
thats why i said case closed, hoping you would pick up on mine.

sarcasm over the computer is hard

by Conor on Apr 10, 2008 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Claiming the lottery was rigged for the Knicks to
land Ewing at least has enough to it to make you stop and think for a second.  But the NBA rigged the lottery for the small market Spurs to get Duncan?  If they were going to rig it for any franchise, it would have been for one of the best known NBA franchises the Celtics.  Stern's legacy will forever be the job he did marketing the league.  Why the hell would he want a possible face of the NBA (I'm not saying Duncan is actually a face of the NBA.  He obviously has little charisma.  It's more that as a first overall pick, he could have had potential as such.) to go to a small market team?  I'd be more likely to believe that he rigged the '94 Lottery to assure that Shaq got a good teammate.    

by snley on Apr 10, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

sorry snley, i didnt mean for that
to be a repsonse for your comment.

obviously, i have no proof of rigging, i was just making a joke, but regardless, it is interesting to speculate.  I think stern may have rigged it for the spurs for the same reason you said he may have rigged it for the magic when they swapped for penny.  To give robinson a worthy teammate that could take them to the top.

also, the NBA has had an image problem for the past ten or so years, and the team that has won 4 rings in the time span hasn't had any problems concerning player image.  stand up guys who dont get arrested or beat their wives.  Stephen jackson was the one guy, and didnt last too long in San Antonio.  Maybe thats what stern wanted.  A championship caliber team that doesnt have a bunch of dbags.

by Conor on Apr 10, 2008 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A David Robinson injury
forced the Spurs to finish with the 3rd worse record.  2nd was Boston, I think Duncan to the Celts would of been a better "fix" of the lottery
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Apr 10, 2008 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

except the celtics didnt know their ass from their
elbows at that point in time.  Stern may have wanted to see a talent like duncan flourish in a good system with a good, new, young coach.

how can anyone argue with how it has worked out if the lottery was rigged for the spurs??? if stern did indeed wanted duncan to pair up with David Robison to create a winning environment for a small market team (the only truly successful small market team in any pro sport during the past decade besides the florida marlins) the plan worked.

by Conor on Apr 10, 2008 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If that's the criteria,
then no one is going to fix anything in favor of the Bulls.  This organization has got to be rating exceptionally high on the "complete disarray" meter.
It takes a special coach to make Aaron Gray a guy you can see.

by wjb1492 on Apr 10, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you are probably right
with the bulls luck they will get the 14th pick

by Conor on Apr 10, 2008 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's a pretty high bar for excellence you're
setting there.  You can go through all three of the big sports leagues and find teams from small markets that have been more successful than not over the last decade.  Maybe they all did not win championships, but sustained high levels of performance should count for something.

by snley on Apr 10, 2008 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

last time i checked
the biggest motivation for a professional team was to win the ring

thats where the bar should always be

by Conor on Apr 10, 2008 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The biggest motivation
for most players is money.  Winning is sometimes a byproduct sometimes not.  But, the great players are the ones who are willing to sacrifice for the team to build a winner.  

by jpchi on Apr 10, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

thats true
i am talking about the team, however.  what is the purpose of a pro sports team?  i would say win the championship.

by Conor on Apr 10, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, yeah
I was just pointing out that the elements of the team aren't solely motivated by the ring.  Also, you have to wonder whether teams are truly motivated to win a ring.  Reinsdorf runs the Bulls as a business.    Mark Cuban may want a ring above anything else because he doesn't seek profits from his team like Reinsdorf.  A ring could help profits, but if the cost is too much, then he would be content as long as there is money flowing into his coffers.  We had the second highest home attendance in the league this year.  He's still making money without a championship or sustained excellence.

by jpchi on Apr 10, 2008 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you guys are both wrong
sports teams are businesses first and foremost.  everything else is second.
Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 10, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with that.
They are a business and think like a business.  When they try to fix their image they do it in a way a business would.  Marketing.  Just look at what they did with Lebron James.  Groomed from childhood nearly.  If they'd make more money in the long run by being an ok team rather than risk a lot to be a great team they'd do it. They'd get rid of a lovable fan favorite if it made sense in a business way.  They talk about their players like they are family, but when they act it is in a business way, not a family way.

Reminds me a bit of college.  When they want something from you they are a community.  When you want something from them they are an institution.  It isn't surprising players go for money and have super egos.  They are working for a business and treated like it so they have to take what they can get when they can get it.

by cranscape on Apr 10, 2008 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The best route to a championship is to
consistently put forth a competitive team.  Just because teams like the Oakland A's, Sacramento Kings, Minnesota Twins, Indianapolis Colts, Detroit Tigers amongst others haven't won multiple championships doesn't mean they haven't been successful despite their small or mid market status.  Which is more impressive, the Braves run of division championships or the Marlins winning 2 World Series, both eventually followed by fire sales of their best players?  (Sorry Matt, I know it's not basketball, but this is the most obvious example for my point).  As a fan, I'll take the run of the Braves ever time.

by snley on Apr 10, 2008 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ha!
The Spurs and Marlins couldn't sell out one stadium with all of their fans.
Stephen Curry is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Apr 10, 2008 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i was kidding about the rigged lottery
from the start.  I have always been skeptical about that one, but i realize the chances of Stern rigging the lottery are pretty remote.

by Conor on Apr 10, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How bad are the Bulls?
  1. Rose and Beasely don't strike me as Duncan level talents.
  2. And we don't have anyone that's a David Robinson level talent in the first place.

by Sports2 on Apr 10, 2008 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rose
seems as if he could be dominate as AI during his earlier years, but more of a passing PG similiar to Kidd with a better outside shot.  I believe he can be a franchise player in the model of a Chris Paul. A great PG with a strong desire to win, is unmatchable.  Look at Tyson's improvement.  Take Tony Parker or Manu (both can play PG) away from SA, and Duncan becomes KG in Minny.  Rose could make Tyrus look special.

by exult463 on Apr 10, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That makes sense, take the second and third best
players on a team off that team and will no longer be as good as it was with them.

by snley on Apr 10, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, the Bulls
got their chance when they took Brand #1 overall. They had the 3rd worst record and yet leapfrogged Vancouver and the Clippers.

But too bad for the Bulls, Brand wasn't the high impact player that Tim Duncan was. To put it mildly.

I'd guess you only get one conspiracy-theory-inducing freebie at #1 overall every few decades.

Unless you're the Orlando Magic.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 10, 2008 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

what a waste...
i got my calculator out at school. each game is about 2 and a half hours. then all the games i went to i have wasted over 300 hours watching these guys this year. I really hope they make a ton of changes because this team needs alot of help.

by bullzfan148 on Apr 10, 2008 4:01 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

do you commute from Springfield
because you are spending more time traveling than actually watching the games...
Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 10, 2008 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

please, let nobody
calculate their time wasted here. Even bullshooter-independent time.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 10, 2008 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No way,
this place is like the casinos, where you enter and you have no idea whether it's day or night outside in the real world. Places like this are where you go to not have to keep track of time. Unless you've got something on the stove.

...yeah, you're welcome.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 11, 2008 12:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

More Plus/Minus stats from a nerdy fan
I know these numbers piss off the cool dudes, but some of us, despite what our eyeballs tell us need to also rely on cold, hard numbers because  perception does not always match reality.  If you doubt this, listen to Boylan's post game comments and tell me his brain is not short circuiting most of the time when you compare his observations with what took place on the court.

These stats reflect the past 14 games, a period I chose because TT started his horrific shooting slump at that time, yet it didn't seem to hurt the team overall.  Now that he has started, his numbers have entered negative territory along with everyone else with the exception of Johnny Kerr's favorite slow footed white man, Aaron Gray.

Here they are.  For those who think this is a worthless stat please skip them so you can rationalize your positions more effectively.  If what happens when a player is on the court is meaningless, than why get upset about substitutions, rotations and adjustments?  I think that over a period of time they do tell a story.  Obviously only a chapter, but meaningful nevertheless.  But then, I'm a stats nerd.  It worked pretty well for Billy Bean....and remember whatever postion you take, let's not forget the words of the immortal Jim Boylan...."I AM NOT A STATS MAN".

by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 10, 2008 8:59 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Interestingly...
...I only saw one number in that whole rant.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 10, 2008 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oops! My rant would make more sense if I actually
supplied the numbers:

Player          Minutes         (+-)
Hughes         418:41           -39

Deng            480:40           -54

Noah            377:14            -53

Gooden         309:31           -34

Gordon         392:18           -70

Nocioni          234:22           -33

Nichols             14:35            -3

Gray             115:02          +10

Thabo          301:24             -47

Kirk             399:11             -12

Thomas       245:12               -3

Duhon            83:53            -28

Simmons          4:36             -9

Based on these results, I have concluded the whole team sucks but some suck less than others.....and God forbid!  Was Red Kerr right?  If we just gave Aaron 40 minutes a game, we could be looking at a 31 win season.

by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 10, 2008 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I counted correctly, you're quoting plus/minus
from games going back to March 14 loss to Philadelphia.  Over that time, the Bulls have gone 4-10 and nearly all the players have negative +/-.  That tells you something?  Stats are a fantastic tool when used properly.  Context and sample sizes must always be taken into consideration.  There's nothing to learn from your ranting and cherry picking.  

by snley on Apr 11, 2008 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lies
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
-Mark Twain

by jpchi on Apr 11, 2008 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What exactly is your position?
Other than "some guys suck worse than others..."  Because the only response to that is "Duh..."
Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 11, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wasn't cherry picking and I did have a point
Right or wrong. The reason I started to track the +- numbers 14 games ago was because of the heavy flack being directed at TT when his shots went south.  I noticed even when he was shooting around 25% during the beginning of that stretch his +- indicated it was not hurting the team anymore than the others.

Many of you were saying Tyrus was a bust, Noce was killing them, Kirk was a bum, Hughes a disaster, etc.  Gooden was getting raves, people were saying we needed more Gordon on the court, Noah was the only consistent performer, etc.   So in that context these numbers do tell a story.

Since I still believe Thomas and possibly Deng, Thabo and Noah have the highest upsides it is imperative they get as many minutes as possible during these remaining games, with the exception of Luol.  The stats bear out that having the younger players on the court actually keeps the games closer than when the veterans are hogging the minutes.  

It also demonstrates that Tyrus does not hurt the team when he plays, at least not as much as most others.  Since Boylan took over, the defense has gone to hell.  We need coaches who can teach the youngsters how to play better help defense, set better picks, rotate properly, when to take shots and when to pass, how to box out, to post in the blocks, etc.  In other words, we need a professional coaching staff to help them grow. I am still convinced that Tyrus can be a defensive monster with his superior physical gifts but only if he is taught and motivated in the right direction.  That applies to  Gray, Thabo and Noah as well.  This nucleus could still develop into a solid winner, but not with these clowns giving the minutes to the veterans which serves no purpose since their numbers are worse than the newbies.  Who stands out? Gordon? Hughes? Deng?
We have everything to gain and absolutely nothing to lose to leave Tyrus, Aaron, Noah, Thabo and even Nichols on the court. If nothing else, it could improve our chances in the lottery.

by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 11, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Next time, just say you want to see more
development minutes.  Don't waste your time with misused stats.  A 14 game sample size, especially in the context of it being the end of a lost season, doesn't really show anything of significance.  

Tyrus and Noah certainly should be on the court as much as possible.  Thabo should be getting more minutes ahead of Hughes and Duhon.  Gray's big and slow and probably not worth the time to try to develop into anything more than a guy who comes in only when the other team brings in their own big and slow guy.

by snley on Apr 11, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gray has talent
and could develop into a solid 20 min/game type player.  The bulls could certainly use his size against guys like Brendan Heywood.
Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 11, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't see that at all
He may 'develop' into a guy who's on the end of an NBA bench.

20 minutes and your team's no good. There are other lummoxes who can match up against the great Haywood for stretches, and you wouldn't need to do so for 20 minutes. And usually those types of guys are good defenders.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 11, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Misused Stats? Try misused players instead.
The plus/minus performances only became less useful on a sliding scale over the last 4 games when the Bulls officially tanked.  Those prior 10 games were the most important part of the season when they were still in the running for the 8th playoff spot.  During that period Deng, Hughes, Gordon and Gooden (until his injury) were eating up most of the minutes with Kirk playing a diminished role.  The results were disasterous which were reflected in the plus/minus numbers.

TT, Thabo, Kirk and Noce had the best +/-, yet were sitting on the bench for the most part.  When everything fell apart, idiot Boylan insisted his rotations would not change even though his playoff dream was shattered.  If Gooden hadn't got hurt, TT would still be riding the pines.

The point is that the veterans played like crap for the most part in the season's most important stretch.  Now there is absolutely no excuse to give them any more time since the games are meaningless.  Can someone tell me why Duhon's PT is increasing when everyone knows he is a dead man walking?  Does numbnuts think he is showcasing Larry Hughes, or is he really as stupid as everone else suspects?  The bench guys should play until they foul out so Paxson can get a better idea who to keep and who to dump for next year.  Unfortunately, since their coaching staff is hopelessly incompetent and clueless, very little will likely be revealed.  How else are you going to determine their effectiveness if you don't look at the collective results while they are on the court?

by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 11, 2008 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree, Boylan's an idiot and has been terrible
with his rotations.  All I'm going to say, is if you are going to use stats, be aware of the importance of sample size.  10 games or 14 games do not make a significant enough sample size.  Seriously, I agree with your distaste of Boylan.  Just learn more about statistics in general before using them as support for arguments.

by snley on Apr 11, 2008 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Statistics
Vin Scully, the great Brooklyn/LA Dodger broadcaster, once commented about another broadcaster, "He uses statistics the way a drunk uses a lamppost.  For support and not for illumination".    Pretty much summarizes my view.  Plus/minus analysis is pretty much worthless when the team is consistently losing by double digits.

by Cannoli on Apr 11, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well jeebus, if vin scully says so
Stephen Curry is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Apr 11, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

hehe
Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 11, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL
But that's a good quote though. :)
"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 11, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that they suck this year
But for 3 straight years the bulls have been going to the playoffs without any low post player. I just think that in the beginning of the season Gordon and Deng were forcing their offense to get more money at the end of the season and that Ben Wallace was a waste of time and money. Kirk was also pushing. If you look at out line-up now after the trade we have guys who have experience in playoff games and who are very athletic; and we're the youngest team in the league. WE JUST NEED A DAMN GOOD COACH. FIRE BOYLAN NOW.

by stretch23 on Apr 11, 2008 9:41 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

not just playoff experience...
Finals experience. You can almost taste the winning ways of Larry Hughes.

(and the Bulls made the playoffs with Eddy Curry)

Stephen Curry is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Apr 11, 2008 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kobe Bryant nearly pulled a Jay williams
[I would not have felt a bit sorry for him if he got hurt doing this. What a stupid show off act https://www.kb24.com/news/article/577.html]

by RogersPark Kris on Apr 11, 2008 9:57 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah
I was shocked when George Lucas risked interplanetary war to film Star Wars. Fucking Hollywood.

I just hope Joey Gathright was paid for being way more amazing.

Stephen Curry is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Apr 11, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL
Dude, do you look like Nocioni?

Because you're fearless on here. And you bring the passion day in and day out.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 11, 2008 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree
The danger in Bryant's (if real) makes it as impressive if not as athletically exciting.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 11, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you think for one second that wasn't cgi
I don't think I have a comment snarky enough...
Don't tell anybody, but here's hoping TT puts it all together.

by bullshooter on Apr 11, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly
I forget the name of the company...but there is a company that specializes in making scenes like this

People need to think this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rTjHHGT2Sk&feature=related - different end "results" but both fake

by NormVanBeer on Apr 11, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You usually don't.
You just think you do.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 11, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh dear.
That will get him the MVP for sure.  :P

by cranscape on Apr 11, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Umm and of course
the fact that it's a Nike ad on a Nike website has nothing to do with it, because sure, that's a perfectly reasonable chance to take for all involved, right?
"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 11, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is Tyrus really a bum , Jimbo, Red, KC?
In the world according to Boylan, TT has been a disappointing cancer who failed to execute the game plan on both ends of the court, who couldn't follow directions, who NEVER ran the court, who was constantly out of  postition, who didn't deserve any plays run for him, yada, yada, yada which is why he rotted away both physically  and  emotionally on the bench for most of the season.

If Gooden hadn't gone down and others weren't injured, neither him or Thabo would have seen much PT all season.  I truly believe the main reason Boylan and his staff of trolls relied so heavily on the veterans was because they didn't have enough smarts to teach and develop the younger, less experienced players and feared being exposed as clueless nincompoops.  

On the other hand. little old Hubie Brown has covered only 3 Bulls games this season and commented tonight on Tyrus being a highlight film, on  Noah's great potential and Deng's ability to create offense along with Ben Gordon.  He was impfessed with how quickly Tyrus got downcourt and what an impressive all around game he showed, blocks, steals, rebounds, assists, scoring.  Hubie also stated Thomas needs more minutes.

But who are we to believe, Bulbous Boylan or Hubie, the man who took a young inexperienced Memphis team and made them winners, only to have them sink back into mediocrity once he left?

Once the Bulls throw Captain Bligh overboard and retake the Bounty, it may not be necessary to abandon ship.  With the right leader at the helm, they can someday once again sail through the NBA with the wind at their backs and recapture the pride they once had.

by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 11, 2008 9:24 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Is Tyrus really a bum , Jimbo, Red, KC?
In the world according to Boylan, TT has been a disappointing cancer who failed to execute the game plan on both ends of the court, who couldn't follow directions, who NEVER ran the court, who was constantly out of  postition, who didn't deserve any plays run for him, yada, yada, yada which is why he rotted away both physically  and  emotionally on the bench for most of the season.

If Gooden hadn't gone down and others weren't injured, neither him or Thabo would have seen much PT all season.  I truly believe the main reason Boylan and his staff of trolls relied so heavily on the veterans was because they didn't have enough smarts to teach and develop the younger, less experienced players and feared being exposed as clueless nincompoops.  

On the other hand. little old Hubie Brown has covered only 3 Bulls games this season and commented tonight on Tyrus being a highlight film, on  Noah's great potential and Deng's ability to create offense along with Ben Gordon.  He was impfessed with how quickly Tyrus got downcourt and what an impressive all around game he showed, blocks, steals, rebounds, assists, scoring.  Hubie also stated Thomas needs more minutes.

But who are we to believe, Bulbous Boylan or Hubie, the man who took a young inexperienced Memphis team and made them winners, only to have them sink back into mediocrity once he left?

Once the Bulls throw Captain Bligh overboard and retake the Bounty, it may not be necessary to abandon ship.  With the right leader at the helm, they can someday once again sail through the NBA with the wind at their backs and recapture the pride they once had.

by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 11, 2008 9:25 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Speaking of idiots
the message said I hit an invalid key and to post again...I know I can be sometime be a longwinded blowhard, but I mistakenly Boylaned this double post.  Dumbass

by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 11, 2008 9:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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