The 2008-09 Bulls - best NBA defensive team

by chgobr on Mar 8, 2008 4:21 PM CST

As we think about choosing a coach I suggest we build on our strengths. We do not have a superstar and likely won't when we start the 2008-09 season. What we do have is athletic players that like playing defense. Noah, Hinrich, Hughes, TT, Thabo, Deng and even Noch have significant defensive talent and like playing defense. Good defense leads to fast break opportunities, a strength of our team. What do you think about choosing our next coach with the goal to make us the 2008-09 top NBA defensive team?

One name that comes to mind is Tom Thibodeau.

Tom Thibodeau has been an NBA coach for nearly twenty years. For many of those years, he worked under Jeff Van Gundy, who has called him a strong prospect to be a head coach one day soon. When Boston's Doc Rivers looked for a new assistant this summer, Thibodeau is said to have been at the top of the list of coaches who could help Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, and Paul Pierce succeed together. His move from Houston to Boston was something of a homecoming for Thibodeau, too, who is from nearby New Britain, Connecticut, and once was an assitant coach at Harvard, and at Massacusetts' Salem State, where he both graduated and coached.

Thibodeau has been praised for everything from his tutelage of Yao Ming to making the Celtics a much-improved defensive team.

Thibodeau's background written when he was Jeff Van Gundy's Assistant in Houston.

Thibodeau entered the NBA in 1989 as an assistant coach with the expansion Minnesota Timberwolves under the late Bill Musselman. After two seasons with the Timberwolves, he joined the Seattle SuperSonics in 1991 as an advance scout. The following year, Thibodeau moved to San Antonio, where he worked with Jerry Tarkanian and John Lucas as a Spurs assistant coach for two seasons. He left San Antonio to become an assistant coach under Lucas with the Philadelphia 76ers. Thibodeau's stay in Philadelphia lasted two seasons, at which point he joined the Knicks. With the Knicks, Thibodeau worked with Van Gundy for five years and Don Chaney for two seasons.

In 14 NBA seasons, Thibodeau has helped his team finish in the NBA's Top Ten in team defense 11 times.

What are your thoughts about Thibodeau? Any other suggestions on who else can accomplish getting us to be the 2008-09 best defensive team?

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Assistant's that become good coaches

The Assistant's on the pro level that become good coaches are usually the ones that have already been with the team and are moved up to the Head Coaching position. They have already gained the respect of that team being an assistant and then moving up.

Examples that come to mind are

Pat Riley - Assistant with the Lakers, took over after Paul Westhead
Phil Jackson - Assistant with the Bulls, took over after Doug Collins
Jeff Van Gundy - Assistant with the Knicks under Riley, then Nelson, took over after Don Nelson
Lawrence Frank - Assistant with Nets, took over after Byron Scott
Stan Van Gundy - Assistant with the Heat, took over after Pat Riley (then was forced out when Riley wanted to retake the seat)
Scott Skiles - Assistant with the Suns, took over after Danny Ainge (I believe)
Avery Johnson - Assistant with the Mavs, took over after Don Nelson
Mike D'Antoni - Assistant with the Suns, took over after Frank Johnson

I know Boylan took over for Skiles, but Boylan is too much like Skiles that I believe the players aren't giving it their all for him. (Evidence would be last night)

I just think Assistants that become successful Head Coaches get their start with the team they have been with for a time. Then once they show the success they can go elsewhere since they are already proven.

I believe it's hard for Assistant's to go to Head Coach with another team and be successful. It can be done, but in the NBA, if you don't have success, you are usually replaced quickly. So, they don't get the time needed to implement their strategy and be successful.

Tom Thibodeau ,he might be a great head coach one day, but I don't think going the route of Assistant to Head Coach with different teams is the way to go.

by BullsAttitude on Mar 8, 2008 4:57 PM CST 0 recs

It beats the Rick Carlisle Recycling Program

A lot of those guys inherited an already good team, the new Bulls coach might have to turn Skiles/Boylan-Ball on its head.

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Mar 8, 2008 5:09 PM CST up 0 recs

Well, the Bulls aren't as bad as......

they seem. This team still has talented players, enough to be competitive and have some success(not this year of course). So, the next coach will inherit a decent team.

Our success next year depends on if Paxson can get a game changing player, whether through the draft or through a trade.

Now, I know most are saying that we won't be able to draft high enough to get that game changing player, remember though that D-Wade went at #5 in the draft. Plus, he wasn't on people's radar as a top prospect until after his great tourney run.

by BullsAttitude on Mar 8, 2008 5:20 PM CST up 0 recs

I'd rather go offensive.

As you said, they already have guys willing to play defense (I question Nocioni's actual talent at it, although not the desire), so it won't be hard to get them to be good at defense. It will be hard to get them to be good at offense if you concentrate on defense.

So, in my opinion, even if you brought in an offensive-minded coach, as long as he was willing to play defense (and Thomas and Noah played a lot), they'd still be a Top 10 defensive team. I also think they have the talent to be a Top 10 offensive team with a fast-paced, efficient system. (what that would be, I have no clue). So, as I've said before, I'd rather see Paxson go offensive.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 8, 2008 6:37 PM CST 0 recs

I think it's more about creating an identity

Confidence comes from knowing you have an advantage over the other team in something. Right now, the Bulls are worse offensively, defensively, inside, outside, and in transition than many teams in this league. Worse at every facet.

We just have to be really good at one to give ourselves a shot. When I played sports, it meant a lot to be able to say "Well, they're bigger and stronger than us, but we're faster and we can play smarter... if we exploit that advantage, we have a chance."

I really like this post by chgobr, and though I don't know a thing about Thibodeau, it seems smart to go the defensive route. Bring on Thabeet!

by YaoPau on Mar 8, 2008 7:01 PM CST up 0 recs

How about...

...being good and both and saying, "We're younger, faster and more athletic than any other team out there."

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 8, 2008 7:04 PM CST up 0 recs

... as Hinrich, Hughes, Nocioni, and Deng trot out

by YaoPau on Mar 8, 2008 7:29 PM CST up 0 recs

Let's just keep our fingers crossed that Pax

doesn't add another "savvy veteran" presence to throw in the mix

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 8, 2008 7:35 PM CST up 0 recs

I'm with you

on our lack of a superstar, as well as my belief that we won't have a superstar any time soon. I think we should cater to our strengths. That's athleticism, defense and our youth.

Considering his success with Boston, I would welcome Thibodeau as our head coach. But our glaring issue on the offensive end needs to be tended to.

Which brings me to something else I'm kicking around in my head: does anyone else think we should try and keep Gordon? I know the Bulls already have a lot of guards, but BG sure can score, even if it is with jumpers...

by ForWhomTheBullTolls on Mar 8, 2008 8:57 PM CST 0 recs

What to do with Gordon confuses me

He should be hungry next year and it appears he is willing to sign for the $6.4 mil qualifying offer. He would give us great depth at a great price. That said, if we could get a special big player by trading him we should consider trading him. The big if is "something special and big".

by chgobr on Mar 8, 2008 10:06 PM CST up 0 recs

What athleticism?

None of our core guys - Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, Noah - are jawdrop athletes. Remember Paxson said before the 2006 draft that we lacked athleticism, which led to his drafting of Tyrus and Thabo.

Compare us to the Hawks, or the Nuggets, or the Warriors, or the Lakers, or the Raptors. Our athleticism is nowhere close.

To me, the Bulls are one of the least athletic teams in the league. What little identity we have comes from our scrappiness and our hustle, mostly because we don't have much else to go on.

by YaoPau on Mar 9, 2008 3:24 AM CST up 0 recs

They may lack athleticism, but some of them thrive

in an open court game. I think that was more of the point. Guys like Carlisle and Thibedeau scare me because I hate teams that try to grind it out with half court D. This team was built for a more pressing, up tempo game and bringing in someone who wants to squeeze the air out of the ball could make matters even worse.

by snley on Mar 9, 2008 11:01 AM CDT up 0 recs

I like

I like the fact that this idea acknowledges what i believe the bulls identity should be. They have alot of great defenders on that team, and because of thier young legs, they can definetly run it with the best of them. Our lack of a power center (except for mr gray) also gives us the edge in the running game. Basically we have a tyrus thomas (who sort of reminds me of Amare) and we have a joakim noah, two guys who define hustle. They also dont have any post up moves, yet in a fast break who posts up?

The bulls should get anyone who could stress what skiles stressed, and the idea that made this team good. Hard defense which will to turnovers, which will turn into fast breaks, which will lead to either easy layups and dunks OR jumpshots that are not contested (since ideally the offense will be set and the floor will be spaced LONG before the opposition sets up defense).

In this style of offense, a pg like kirk hinrich, who is not a traditional pg and struggles somewhat in a regular half court game and also is a better shooter then most pgs need to be, can flourish. Also a guy like ben gordon, who is too small to go at any opponent one on one and cant create his own shot, can easily get open and hit an open jumpter (he doesnt need much daylight). A guy like thomas or noah can sprint down the court and finish hard at the rim. A deng can knock down a quick mid range shot or just penetrate and dunk. Hughes can follow dengs example on the other wing.

Noch remains a designated chucker, Gooden can become good trade bait or a good player to keep against teams like the spurs who force teams to slow down. Aaron gray can exploit smaller lineups...this is how the bulls are destined to be built. Running a fast paced game hides alot of the weaknesses this team has, all that is required is the effort on the defensive end.

Kirk Hinrich. The Best White American Point Guard in the NBA.

by piccolomair on Mar 9, 2008 4:04 AM CST 0 recs

Very good start

to your post. I agree completely with the basketball philosophy this team should employ. Defence, rebounding to runnning game and easy baskets before the defence sets. (This is how my team played in it's most successful season. won by an average of over 40 points. :D )

However the whole house of cards crumbles when you bring Ben Goron into the mix. How exactly are you going to incorporate him while still playing good team defence??

by Bass on Mar 9, 2008 5:19 AM CST 0 recs

update from 82.games

net +/- per 100 possessions

Noah +10,1
LH + 4,6
Noc + 3,4
Thomas + 2,8
Thabo + 2,0
Kirk + 0,3
Gooden - 1,0
Duhon - 1,3
Deng - 1,9
Gray - 3,1
BG - 7,3

by Bass on Mar 9, 2008 5:31 AM CST up 0 recs

Noah would actually

be ranked 17th in the league in this category if it were not for his low usage %. (Ahead of Gasol, Duncan and Garnett...) Looks like the cut-off is 35%. Noah is at 32%. Leading all rookies while the likely candidate for ROY is a rather unimpressive -11.2. Ironic, no? He didn't even get to go to the rookie game!? WTF? :/

by Bass on Mar 9, 2008 6:04 AM CST up 0 recs

Seems to me Gordon was on this team when the Bulls

were ranking towards the tops of Defensive Efficiency the last few years. While Gordon is not an ideal defender, I don't understand why some people can't get it through their heads that the Bulls can still be, and in fact were and even still are, a good defensive team while giving heavy minutes to Gordon.
07-08 9th (before Sunday's game)
06-07 1st
05-06 7th
04-05 2nd

by snley on Mar 9, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up 0 recs

Indeed

Gordon might not be a great defender, but someone has to initiate some unstoppable long range offense. Theres no one on this team better suited for that then him.

Kirk Hinrich. The Best White American Point Guard in the NBA.

by piccolomair on Mar 9, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up 0 recs

been there done that

that was the baby bulls of the last couple of years. Good D but offensive anemia. We need to keep BG and get a point guard who can drive and get to the line. I think this team is defensively sound for years to come, best defensive team might be a little optimistic but its possible. I think Larry Hughes' emergence as basically the Bulls best player shows that they don't even need a superstar, just a star, (dare I dream an allstar) at any position except center because i think Noah is solid and Deng is no allstar cuz his jumper is just not that good. Geez pau gasol would be good on this team but i digress.

by Zac23 on Mar 9, 2008 11:10 AM CDT 0 recs

Mariotti suggests Thibodeau may be pursued

Mariotti offers some thoughts on potential coaches for next season:

I'm starting to wonder if anyone fits the Bulls' description. Forget Larry Brown, who will want way too much money for Jerry Reinsdorf's tastes and couldn't tolerate the losing. Jeff Van Gundy has dealt with every imaginable issue in a big market, but he'll want $5 million a year. Please don't bring up Scottie Pippen. Most likely, Paxson will be pursuing a hot league assistant such as Boston's Tom Thibodeau.

by paxson43 on Mar 11, 2008 3:27 PM CDT 0 recs