The trade of Wallace for Noah is really working out

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 6, 2008 11:16 PM CST in News Comment 102 comments

(Too bad Larry Hughes had to be a throw-in.)

That was a very fun game to attend. The only downer was that it's so hard to boo Ben Wallace since he never does anything on the court worth booing. The old bastard couldn't even get to the line, which would've been a nice moment.

Although, why boo him, Ben was great for the Bulls tonight, and I was delighted whenever he entered the game. After all, he allowed his successor, Joakim Noah, to grab 20 rebounds in 32 minutes. Noah was so good, my "what are you Boylan, a goddamned idiot?" moment(s) of the night was the overextended breaks he was giving Noah, especially to end the first half and before his final stint in the fourth. Boylan even managed to mess up Noah's exit, taking him out during a timeout when he could've waited until the upcoming free throw was taken, giving Noah the deserved standing ovation for a fantastic night. Luckily I doubt Noah cares, although when he bizarrely wasn't getting in at the end of the first half, I did joke "guess who's blowing off the next practice?"

Two other great performances were from Gordon and Deng, which is a long time coming, especially in the same outing. Gordon didn't get to the line much but despite that statistic I thought he was attacking the basket well, especially in transition. Of course, being 4-5 from three helps too. He even added 4 assists with just 1 turnover in 33 minutes. Pay the man his money! (well, you can let him have a few more good games first)

Deng overcame an abysmal first stint where he missed a half-dozen layups to join Gordon in taking over a 3rd quarter where the team outscored the Cavs 34-16. The Cavs made the curious defensive assignments of putting LeBron on Gordon while someone smaller (usually Devin Brown) took Deng. And the Luol-post option was there nearly every possession. Either Deng got to the rim (and was finishing, unlike the first half) or he'd open things up for teammates (usually Gordon, who LeBron would lose). Deng even made some pretty tough shots coming across the lane.

He also deserves credit for guarding LeBron, although between him, Nocioni, and Hughes(?), they just get a participation award (oh, and a hacking Hinrich, who roughed up LeBron a bit). I have a feeling LeBron was a bit gassed after his 50 point Wednesday and having to carry his chump teammates for the first half of this game. Seeing Ben Wallace get abused by the man he suspended likely didn't inspire him either. But it did inspire me.

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Great game

I thought a nice (rare) move by Boylan was going with Kirk and BG down the stretch in the backcourt. Although Ben can't stop anybody from penetrating on him, he played with a controlled aggression on the offensive side of the ball. Larry has a role to play, but the familiarity on the offensive side of the ball helped us close it out tonight.

It's also amazing when, I don't know, Boylan lets the young guys get extended minutes out there. Of course, it helped Noah that "Body" can't jump any more, but I'll take 20 boards any day. My favorite play from Joakim was the fake handoff from the high post and the quick drive to the hoop. His activity around the basket coupled with 1-2 offensive moves a game would have him averaging a double double.

Not going to get any easier, but if they can go 2-2 during this stretch, I will be encouraged.

by Gene Banks on Mar 6, 2008 11:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

i agree with the bg kirk sentiment

since the trade boylan has seemed afraid to put the two of them together. i mean, those two worked pretty darn well for the past 2-3 years, why completely abandon it now?

by Mike C on Mar 6, 2008 11:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Really liked

seeing "the core" out there with Noah. What an imaginative lineup, and it worked! Who knew?

by California Al on Mar 7, 2008 1:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Old Core + The New Core

Hinrich
Gordon
Deng
Thomas
Noah

Hughes
Thabo
Nocioni
Gooden

Works for me.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 7, 2008 8:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I was listening to John Hollinger

talk to JA Adande in the ESPN Daily Dish podcast discuss why John likes KG's defense and not Stromile Swift's. Laugh now. I know.

Ok we're back. Anyway, KG's defense is superior for one primary reason: he maintains his position on defense when he goes to block a shot. Remind you of anyone? Joakim Noah is going to be a star in this league. His defensive position is stellar already. He gets a hand up without elevating too much which allows him to use his other hand to close off a low drop passing lane. He's almost always directly in front of the offensive player giving him maximum vision to see what's to the left and right of the offensive player. When he blocks shots, he doess't swat them to $500 seats. He blocks them to teammates and corrals a few himself. Bill Russell blocks are better than Marcus Camby blocks. Noah's got some Russell in him.

Noah is a smart kid. He's very polished as a professional already. That outburst direct at Ron Adams was a good thing to happen. The kid is learning, growing, and fully blooming now that Ben Wallace is helping us by actually dressing for the opponent.

It's kind of odd, but I think Noah is the floor leader on this team. He's a talker on defense which really impressed Paxson and Skiles in draft workouts. He doesn't shut up. He's always using what tools are available to him to help his teammates which in turn help him decide where he needs to get to on the floor defensively.

We may have drafted the best center in the draft. Get healthy Oden.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 7, 2008 8:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Noah's leadership

is the reason why I wanted the Bulls to draft him. I was playing in a softball game on draft day, and I told my friend to call me whenever Joakim got drafted, regardless of who he went to. I started dancing when I heard he was coming to Chicago. I love the attitude he brings to the game.

Every year, there are rookies who can jump through the ceiling while benching 250lbs twenty times with 9' wingspans. But Joakim can lead people. It took him awhile to get his teammates' respect, but I'm excited to watch him progress into the vocal leader of this team, hopefully starting next year.

by YaoPau on Mar 7, 2008 9:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

As long as

his game backs up his leadership I don't mind. I am tired of bench players and has-beens leading the team. I didn't follow Noah's college career so I don't have any pre-NBA prejudice against him like some. I like what I see so far. You can really tell he stuck it out through college and is coming in with at least the poise needed for the NBA. I feel bad that he came in during the Bull's crappy year though. It is one thing to be on a loosing team, it is another to be drafted to a team with a lot of drama.

by cranscape on Mar 7, 2008 10:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I actually like Hughes and Noce lately

At least they both have the balls to take the big shots. A couple baskets by Noce stopped Cleveland's momentum, and Larry Hughes also did some decent shooting at points. Never scared to shoot, and seems to have more discipline than advertised.

I feel increasingly comfortable replacing Gordon with Hughes, especially since Kirk could go back to guarding his position and handle the ball less.

Good game, maybe Deng is the Lebron-stopper! He only had 39! Course, he worked hard for those points. This game reminded me a little of last year, and I'm letting my mind wander to a playoff victory before we bow out. It would be something, at least.

Drew Gooden beard meter - 6 (Old Amish Carpenter)

by cubbybear on Mar 7, 2008 2:31 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Still not liking Hughes

He's shooting at right around his career FG% (41%) as a Bull and he isn't slashing like he promised he would. My other concern is that he's injury prone so even if he plays well the rest of the year (and increases his FG% with improved shot selection) I think Pax is going to seriously weigh Hughes's history of injuries.

It doesn't help that right now that Thabo is out with a mystery injury, but I would still rather commit minutes to him than to Larry. Perhaps the PT that Larry is getting due to Thabo's injury will whet enough appetites that Pax can move Larry in the offseason. Perhaps wishful thinking, I know.

by paxson43 on Mar 7, 2008 6:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

39 for the game, but just 13 in the 2nd half

Wait, half-time adjustments? Really? No way!

Finally!

Once again, when Deng plays solid defense his offensive game is more consistent.

Dear Beat Writers,

Ask Luol about the achilles tendonitis.

Sincerely,

BAB

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 7, 2008 8:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sometimes too much balls

The issue with both LH and Noce is exactly that, sometimes they tend to shoot ugly from anywhere, anytime.

But with their minutes controlled and good pressure (competition) from Luol and BG, they seemed able to improve their shot selection.

by Sky on Mar 7, 2008 10:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Do you think

part of the reason why Hughes and Noc will put up more shots is because they're watching BG and Deng struggle to make theirs?

Because that is what I observe.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 7, 2008 10:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

'observe' ::rolls eyes::

You mean mind-read?

Hughes has always shot a bunch, because he thinks he's good.

I suppose the 'Noc just loves the team so much so he feels like he needs to score' logic makes some sense, although Noc was a scorer overseas and it really is his game (since he's no good at anything else. Sorry...'getting under skin' is a pretty useless trait)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 7, 2008 10:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree to an extent

I think Hughes will shoot no matter what. That is why they hated him in Cleveland, and that is why he was miserable - he wants to shoot the ball.

Noce, I think starts shooting like a madman when the team goes into a funk. Sometimes he gets the team going and sometimes he starts chucking to the detriment of the team.

Basically, I think they chuck for different reasons. Hughes does it because that is all he knows. Noce does is it because he thinks it will help the team.

by danger mouse on Mar 7, 2008 11:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Noce, watch your timing

The issue with him is, sometimes he seems to ignore how much time is left. Yes, I've seen him throwing bricks when everybody else -often BG, Luol and Kirk- is ice cold and static, then Noce would go "WTF, somebody has to go for it." But it's one thing when you're trailing in the 4th quarter -and then he'd be justified- and one another when you're barely past half time -and then a couple of bad bricks can kill whichever little wind the team had.

by Sky on Mar 7, 2008 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

My fear from this game

is that Boylan starts thinking "Look how great we did without Tyrus playing! Why should he get any minutes going forward?"

by torch on Mar 7, 2008 7:02 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Lets hope not

and I'm talking Obamasized Hope.

Big Z missed the game, but the Celtics won't be missing any bigs. We have a better chance of defeating the Celtics now then prior to the trade. Ben Wallace was outplayed by Glen Davis TWICE.

Chicago will miss Tyrus tonight specifically for the 25 minutes of rest he can give to other front court players. The Celtics are awesome at home because their player rotation is so strong.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 7, 2008 8:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

my fear

is that a bunch of people will comment on how unsatisfying the win was because TT didn't play...

Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 7, 2008 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I would have

if he was eligible. Boylan gets a pass. Maybe he asked Pax to make it two games for that very reason :)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 7, 2008 9:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Boylan

Fears the wrath of Blog-a-Bull. I'd believe it.

Drew Gooden beard meter - 6 (Old Amish Carpenter)

by cubbybear on Mar 7, 2008 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ha

Tyrus' suspension was originally going to be 1 game, but Ben Wallace and Adrian Griffin conference-called Pax and told him they were concerned that 1 game wasn't enough.

by Petor on Mar 7, 2008 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not so much

Although a valid comment would be yes, we can win without TT, if only against a single starplayer team with a snail paced C.

I'm hoping this win (because I wouldn't expect to beat the Celtics with or without TT) put things in perspective with TT's development. He will get some minutes, yes, but the pressure to have him on the floor all the time should deflate. Outside of the BaB hardcores, that is.

by Sky on Mar 7, 2008 10:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Is your alias "Sky"

because your head is empty like the blue summer sky? Or because your logic faculties are clouded like the grey wintry sky? Or because you are high (as the sky) on crack when you comment?

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 7, 2008 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow.

That's why I love blogs -the joy of getting articulate, well thought answers.

by Sky on Mar 7, 2008 4:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

Maybe if I really try
Strive so hard it makes me cry
Lambaste Gordon, insult Ty
Then I, yes even I
Can be abrasive just like Sky

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 7, 2008 5:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I missed the game

Guess I have to post a "Noah Sucks Trade Him For Truer Players Like Sene" diary.

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Mar 7, 2008 7:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Another...

Chris Duhon - DNP - CD

Even Simmons and Brown got in for the last 1:44.

He's as good as gone this off-season.

by CubFan81 on Mar 7, 2008 8:05 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Still

I think Du should have gotten in during those garbage minutes in the 4th. We need to keep showcasing his skills as a backup PG. He'll have very real value this summer.

by Old Skool Sloan on Mar 7, 2008 8:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

he's a free agent this summer

He doesn't have any value to the Bulls.

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Mar 7, 2008 8:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Unrestricted free agent too

Ergo, Chicago has no control over him at all. He's a free agent's free agent.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 7, 2008 8:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We could use him in a sign and trade, no?

Or does that unrestricted tag mean that would be pointless, too. I checked his status before posting but must have read some old info. Sorry.

by Old Skool Sloan on Mar 7, 2008 10:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We could sign and trade

But i'm pretty sure most sign and trade deals are premised on the restricted free agent status of the player's club that owns these rights. Since a restricted free agent can receive a contract offer and their team that owns their rights can simply beat it by years or up front money, two clubs will work a sign and trade to help both teams navigate the salary cap and both receive some return on what they're going to pay out.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 7, 2008 10:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, sign and trades are more common in UFA

For an RFA, his original team, assuming they made the qualifying offer, simply has to match any offer from another team. They don't have to beat it.

For most UFA's, their original team holds Bird Rights, which means they can offer salary without having to worry if it exceeds the salary cap or not. Plus, the original team's max offer is higher than any other team's max offer. So UFA's get sign-and-trade's so they can get more money and move to another team.

In Duhon's case, sign-and-trade most likely won't happen, as his salary will be low enough that a team can use a portion of its veteran's exception to bring him in without giving anything up (other than the roster spot wasted on Duhon).

by snley on Mar 7, 2008 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i think he'll get more than the veterans exception

but I'd be shocked if he got more than the MLE, which is why he'd need to do a sign and trade.

Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 7, 2008 12:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I caught the last 14 minutes of the game

I just missed out on the 3rd quarter barrage, but here's what I liked from the last 14 minutes.

Luol Deng's defense: He was moving his feet. They were quicker than Lebron's. Lebron had put up 76 points over the last 72 minutes of gametime. He put up 13 in the last 24.
Luol Deng's offense: once again Luol shines when his defense leads to offense.
Rebounding: we were all over the glass late. One and done possessions lead to synchronized fist pumping at my bar table.
Ben Wallace's contract finally paying off for Chicago: Can we meet the Cavs in the playoffs? I'd like to collect some more wins from the 28 million we paid the guy.

We looked like the team that closed the end of the regular season last year. We beat a playoff team and at one point extended the lead to 20. /Marv Albert voice* YES! AND IT COUNTS!

More please.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 7, 2008 8:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Deng looked a lot better

after Hinrich roughed up LBJ and Cleveland switched LBJ off of Deng. Deng had his way against Sczerbiak and D. Brown, who, if you are like me, you've never heard of before. Noah mostly and Gooden did a great job on the boards throughout. For as good as Deng looked in the second half, Deng looked worse in the first quarter. He was missing layups and getting torched by an unconscious LBJ.

Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 7, 2008 9:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Devin Brown

He was a 8-10 minute shooter with one of the Spurs championships. Then he think he fell out of the league for a couple years.

I kinda wish I didn't know that.

by CrashDavis on Mar 7, 2008 10:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Valid point

Deng is not an aggresive player per se. He's got the skills but looked passive in the 1t half when he was guarding LBJ. It was Kirk's lil' roughing what threw Lebron off -and the fact that he was after scoring 50 and having a terrific first half, the guy has to get tired sometimes.

by Sky on Mar 7, 2008 10:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The baby Bulls don't remember the Pistons

It was Kirk's lil' roughing what threw Lebron off

The Bad Boys knew when a hard foul was necessary. They knew when to send scorers to the line.

No free buckets, EVER. Even Larry Bird knew this.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 7, 2008 10:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey, Matt,

Congrats on being quoted at length regarding your hatred of all things Wallace and Boylan at the blog dimemag.com:

http://dimemag.com/2008/03/07/the-wallace-of-old/#more-1795

Maybe this'll also help get word out there regarding other common blogabull.com sentiments, like the fact that fans would actually pay to see Tyrus Thomas on the floor.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 7, 2008 9:37 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Myrie doesn't appreciate Matt's potty mouth

Noah is a hussle machine, and Matt Duhon is our best guard.

by preverbal on Mar 7, 2008 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Lebron's 2nd Half

Does anyone thing that awkward foul by Heinrich at half-court to begin the 3rd had anything to do with his performance?

I was at the game so I don't know what of it they spoke during the telecast, but it looked like he was favoring his arm after that point.

He didn't do too much driving the rest of the quarter and this could have explained the odd defensive substitution against the un-physical Gordon.

Single-handedly crushing the Knicks could have taken a lot out of him, too, I guess.

This is more a legitimate question than idle speculation. Did they mention it on TNT?

by lilzaky on Mar 7, 2008 10:24 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

yeah they did

it was the turning point in the game.

Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 7, 2008 10:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

maybe the season

if the Bulls rally and make the play-offs.

I gotta say, LBJ's strutting and preening definitely rub me the wrong way. MJ never did that. Kobe doesn't either. Even Arenas is joyful and playful, rather than overweening.

by alec on Mar 7, 2008 10:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah that

smiling and winking into the camera made me gag. I like men who are sure of themselves but I can't stand men who are full of themselves.

by sue369 on Mar 7, 2008 10:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i basically can't stand him

but i don't know if it's cause (case in point last night) when he plays all they do is talk about how great he is. CONSTANTLY. and i hate that face he makes when he gets an and-1 play. anyone else know what i'm talking about? :P

by Jaina on Mar 7, 2008 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

His fake tough face?

Yes! I wrote a post about that last year but I am not going to hunt for the link.

Bron is a tool. He's just incredibly good at basketball.

Noah is a hussle machine, and Matt Duhon is our best guard.

by preverbal on Mar 7, 2008 10:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Disagree

Lebron is not that. He's got tons of confidence, and can you blame him? The guy's got more moves than anybody else around the NBA. Plus he's stuck with a bunch of plain role players, and I never heard him complain about that. Both MJ and Kobe would have the same look when they needed/need to carry a deflated team, plus Kobe has not been shy to torch his mates for not delivering -nor MJ, although he was smart enough not to make it too obvious. Nothing wrong with LBJ IMHO.

by Sky on Mar 7, 2008 10:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

LBJ also...

... turns up for practices.

by Vangelis on Mar 7, 2008 5:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

it had a lot to do

But not because LBJ got hurt. I didn't see any problems with his arm. I guess he was dog tired -who wouldn't if you're asked to carry a bunch of losers every night?

I liked Kirk's "Noce-like" play. It showed Cleveland the Bulls weren't giving up already. Over the 1st half LBJ was unstoppable. Sometimes you have to do that -skills aren't everything.

by Sky on Mar 7, 2008 10:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

since all they did

was talk about lebron, of course. they were all "LEBRON HAS BEEN 0-5 SINCE THE HINRICH FOUL!!!!!!"

by Jaina on Mar 7, 2008 10:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

All this LeBron hate!

I love it. Reminds me of the Anti-Tiger Woods rants. I guess I'm just too caught up in the excitement of actual basketball to be worried about such things.

It's funny to me how so many use sports in the same manner that others use US Weekly or People Magazine. "Oooo, he's cute. I like him." "He's a humble fella. He's my favorite." "He wants money. I hate him!"

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 7, 2008 11:04 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Even though you don't

pay any attention to it...thanks for your comment anyway.

by alec on Mar 7, 2008 11:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You've confused me with that comment.

bullshooter: "Not hard to do. ;P"

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 7, 2008 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

huh?

I think you're just confused.

Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 7, 2008 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Isn't it obvious what happened?!?!

Kirk Hinrich is in Lebron's head. When he sees that 6'3 Iowan take the court, he cowers in fear.

Kirk Hinrich - Lebron Stopper. I think Kirk should play the next Cleveland game with a football helmet and pads. At that point I don't think Lebron would even take the floor. Just not worth it.

by danger mouse on Mar 7, 2008 11:20 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Maybe he can stop him for only 37 points

next game.

by RogersPark Kris on Mar 7, 2008 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Beautiful post, sums up my feelings nicely

by snley on Mar 7, 2008 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Lebron

First, he is the best player in the league, so if you love basketball, you should love him; any basketball fan should love watching him and should spend less time trying to compare him to Kobe and Jordan. Second,

I would honestly much prefer a guy who "preens" a bit for the camera, but embraces the overjoyed fan that runs onto the court, than the guy who said "repubulicans buy sneakers too" and has largely become a mechanical corporate symbol by now or the guy who has always come off as just thinking he was way better than everyone else. I will always love Jordan more because I got to see him on the court often enough to realize what he really was (the greatest of all time), but if we are taking personalities, give me LeBron anyday.

I wish he would get some crazy dream of bringing the Bulls back and come here.

by Kemp on Mar 7, 2008 12:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Boooooooo

"...if you love basketball, you should love him"

OK Bill Simmons, please tell me what I have to love.

"You're not a sports fan if you don't love the Patriots doing [insert inane thing here, preferably with the phrase 'eff-you' somewhere within]"

I'm pretty tired of people telling me what I have to love in the sports world. I don't even have anything against LeBron (although I'd like to see some rings before we start anointing him this and that), but it's entirely possible to love basketball and not love LeBron.

by Petor on Mar 7, 2008 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well,

I didn't tell you to do anything, I said should as I was insinuating logic.

by Kemp on Mar 7, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I really hope Cleveland got a good dose

of what happens to Wallace when a legit tall man is matched up next to him.

They usually have their best games of the season

by Option27 on Mar 7, 2008 12:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Lebron is great, no doubt

but he complains constantly. he says "and 1" every time he gets a little rub going to the hoop. He and kobe are the guys that get the calls, always. just like MJ, but the difference between MJ and bron is MJ didnt constantly harass the refs everytime he thought he got fouled. its annoying. i think lebron will have a career similar to drexlers. we in chicago measure greatness by championships rings, not youngest to 10,00 points.

by Conor on Mar 7, 2008 12:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Gimmie a break with the "ring" crap

Yeah, he must suck if he can't carry a washed-up Ben Wallace to a championship. He's never been on a team good enough to win a title, so I don't know how you can fault him for not having any rings. When he is, then we'll be able to judge.

by Big D on Mar 7, 2008 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

relax

all i am saying is lebron has a long, long way to go if he wants to be considered one of the greats of all time. the nba and espn are dead set on making him the next jordan, you know, with that bullshit nick name, king james. its stupid

by Conor on Mar 7, 2008 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

no one will forget King Jordan

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Mar 7, 2008 2:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i loathe

the king james nickname. it's just so pompous and annoying.

by Jaina on Mar 7, 2008 3:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Theres a Rumor

That the nba scouted lebron a long while ago. They are what made his name more of a legend, they also put him through training while he was still in high school to give him that man-child body of his. In other words they have been creating king james since before he even entered the draft. On espn 1000 chicagos website they have an article by Jordan talking about duplication, and how the nba is set on duplicating the Jordans, and Magics, and Birds, and the intense rivalries (lakers vs Celtics??) of old and giving them to the new generation.

Lebron is definetly great, and though i cant believe he is the next jordan, he is definetly someone who will break many records to come. I dont like him game because alot of his game has to do with his freak of nature athleticism. Couple that with the new rules of the nba that allow more dunks and he becomes the perfect showman of the nba. I prefer kobe to lebron just because kobe started his career as nothing more than a dunker who wanted to be great, and has become a player who can do it all (literally).

link to that jordan article:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3243645

Kirk Hinrich. The Best White American Point Guard in the NBA.

by piccolomair on Mar 7, 2008 3:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm just the opposite

I prefer LeBron to Kobe. Kobe has always struck me as someone with a lot of talent but not the mental ability to put it all together. He has definitely shown a more complete game recently...but it's taken him this long. He was a guy that didn't know when to shoot and when to pass. He's a guy who would take contested jumpers over double teams early in the shot clock. I also find him the main reason that Detroit beat the Lakers in the finals. I also think right now, James has surpassed Kobe. James is a triple double threat every night...and he can pretty much do it all on the court.

by Parrotman on Mar 7, 2008 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Showing who's boss!

LeBron who?

by RogersPark Kris on Mar 7, 2008 4:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Drexler

never got a PER above 24. Lebron has cracked that 3 times already in his career and is on pace to get between the 11th-8th best PER of all time. Could you really see LeBron averaging 20 points for his career or missing as many games as Drexler?

It took six years for Jordan to win a championship, give Bron some time.

by Kemp on Mar 7, 2008 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If you see Lebron much live, you will agree

Barclay called it right, you got two bad teams, the trades will pan out, but it's too much of a drastic change for either of the these teams to come together and know how to play together this late in the season. Minimum, 4-6 weeks, then you might have something that may gel, but the Bulls know that this season is over and are looking at some deals to set up next year with a new Coach. The Cavs think they got a shot, the don't, they are weak.
Hughes and Gooden are one's we better use, Hughes took control of that game last night in the third quarter and the game was over, never trailed again. If you doubt this, read the play by play and see the quarter he gave, outstanding. Good fouls on Lebron, he is also our best defender. Not a three point shooter, not a point gaurd, but can get hot and put in 30 plus points maybe 10 times a year and give you 15-20pts, lots of assist and great steals if you play him two or three times a week hard (35 min). Lead the whole league in steals a few years ago also.

Lebron will get tired of his new players, they will get tired of never seeing the ball during a game. Wallace, he is going to love this offense. LeBron is great, but doesn't have the maturity yet to play as a team, plus the Cavs have to pay him so much (near $20 mil) your not going to get another star these days to go there. Why, because they will never see the ball, these guys want to play, not watch and thats all the other four Cavs players do on the court. Wait for trash when Lebron is hung up. Get the ball thrown out to you with 4 seconds left and you have to put up the 3 pointers (did this to Hughes constantly). The Cavs are going to need another miracle to beat any half way decent team in the West, not just one superstar that has to have the ball and shot 20-35 shots a night without out a play for anyone else, or a play he doesn't break. Last year was a fluke. Jordan would be averaging 50 points a night if he was on that team in Cleveland and had the ball that many minutes in his hand.

by Homegrown on Mar 7, 2008 12:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Heh, now James is a ballhog.

8th in the league in assists be damned. I know it's fashionable these days to say that everyone's opinion counts equally and everyone's special and all that, but some people are just plain wrong. Nearly 40% of his team's field goals are assisted by James while he's on the court.

How rich!

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 7, 2008 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe because he has the ball

Lets let time tell and see how many rings he ends up with will all those great numbers. Many superstars could have put up way better numbers in the career, but they chose to play a team game. Kareem, Magic, Jordan, as Coach Wooden stated, put the team first.
Not sure how many times you have seen the man play live, but it's a different perception than T.V.

See how many "stars" are working or trying to move their career to Cleveland and get all those "assist". Then check the numbers of he guys that leave. You can make stats in to anything you want, there is quality assist and assist when your double teamed and the shot clock is running out, it depends on how often the ball is in your hand (not a stat on that). Wait until a non-rookie coach runs Lebron. Brown is a nice guy, but if you watch Cleveland and can't see all the broken plays, you should watch another sport. Sure, your filling the house, your making money, getting some prime T.V. time, nice share of the gate on the road and you made the finals last year, but even that is already getting old with the Cleveland fans. Your salary cap is screwed, you can't even bring in anyone. If you think this team will come together and go anywhere in the playoffs I would be surprised, they struggle to beat weak teams in the east many nights.

by Homegrown on Mar 11, 2008 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

one aspect of Larry's game I like

is getting on the ball handler at half court. Ball pressure is an under utilized skill that can be risky, but with the proper personnel is a deadly weapon. Our opponents use it against Sefalosha and Gordon. We should use it more against teams that aren't very solid at the point guard position.

What Hughes does is right after a shot make or a shot miss he is looking for the opponent point guard that is expected to get the ball to start the fast break. This alters when Hughes is pulling up and taking jumpers in 1(Larry) on 4 possessions.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 7, 2008 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Does homegrown refer to weed?

by CrashDavis on Mar 7, 2008 2:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ha

I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Mar 7, 2008 5:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Homegrown

Nope on the Dope, refers to a license plate on one of your players cars and where he grew up.

by Homegrown on Mar 11, 2008 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Running of Da Bulls

As was mentioned earlier, last night's game changed when Hughes, Deng & Noah were on the floor together for Chicago ...

http://www.nba.com/games/20080306/CLECHI/playbyplay.html

With this in mind, John Paxson should:

Replace Jim Boylan with either Mario Elie or Terry Porter or Michael Cooper.
Emphasize this team's athleticism, depth, running game, and ability to score quickly in transition, by going primarily with the following line-up:

STARTERS
PG - Gordon
OG - Hughes
SF - Deng
PF - Thomas
PF/C - Noah

KEY SUBS
PG - Duhon or Hinrich (keep 1 & trade the other)
OG/SF - Sefolosha
SF/PF - Nocioni
PF - Gooden
C - Gray

RESERVES
Brown, Nichols, Curry & Simmons

Except for Boylan's 'hanking on the chains' of Thomas & Noah ... this team is a lot of fun to watch, versatile and dynamic.

by khandor on Mar 7, 2008 3:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Intresting

Wouldnt you rather have Hinrich running your point if you plan on just running the ball (he is probably better suited for full court offense rather then half court). Besides i like Larry hughes coming off the bench, he can chuck all he wants, and if the starters are having trouble scoring, he can get to the line. Couple that with noch coming off the bench and you have two players coming off the bench who can chuck with the best of them and get to the line alot more. Thabo could be a defensive break for positions 1-3.

Kirk Hinrich. The Best White American Point Guard in the NBA.

by piccolomair on Mar 7, 2008 3:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Love the mix ...

of Sefolosha (defender/rebounder) as the Bulls 3rd Guard/Wing ... in conjunction with Larry Hughes & Luol Deng ... and, Ben Gordon as the MainFrame PG.

by khandor on Mar 7, 2008 4:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

plus

... Nocioni at the F spot

by khandor on Mar 7, 2008 4:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No it didn't

I don't know where you come up with this stuff, but the game changed at the start of the second half when Hinrich banged into LBJ and nobody on Cleveland stepped to help with the scoring. The bulls actually finished the first on a 7-1 run without Deng, and Deng didn't anything until Cleveland switched LBJ off of him. Try watching the game next time.

Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 7, 2008 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If you actually look at the full play-by-play link

... you should be able to see for yourself that the game did not change as a result of Hinrich's 0 Pts, 0-4/FGA (00.0%), 1 Rb, 1 Ast and 1 PF, which occurred during the 3rd Quarter (from 12:00-03:27) before he was subbed out by Ben Gordon ... despite the fact that his play injured LBJ.

While Kirk was on the floor, during this stretch, his individual performance actually hurt the Bulls, in the grand scheme of things ... and it was Hughes, Deng and Noah who did most of the damage to the Cavaliers in this part of the 3rd Quarter:

HUGHES - 11 Pts; 4-5, FGA/80.0%; 1-1, 3FGA/100.0%
DENG - 4 Pts; 1-1, FGA/100.0%; 2-2, FTA/100.0%; 2 Rbs; 2 Ast
NOAH - 2 Pts; 1-2, FGA/50.0%; 7 Rbs; 1 Ast

converting Chicago's 2 pt deficit at the half (49-51) into a 12 pt lead (68-56).

Then, when Ben Gordon subbed in for Hinrich at the 03:27 mark of the 3rd Quarter, it was the combination of Gordon, Hughes, Deng and Noah who put the game away for Chicago, by extending this lead to as much as 17 pts (80-63), before Hinrich was subbed back into the game for Hughes (00:49):

GORDON - 8 Pts; 3-3, FGA/100.0%; 2-2, 3FGA/100.0%
DENG - 3 Pts; 1-1, FGA/100.0%; 1-2, FTA/50.0%; 2 Rbs
HUGHES - 0 Pts; 0-1, FGA/00.0%; 2 Ast

Are you sure you were actually watching what happened during each and every possession? ... when the Bulls took control of this game.

by khandor on Mar 7, 2008 4:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ah, yes,

Since only things recorded in the boxscore count for anything, right? With a particular focus on offense of course.

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 7, 2008 4:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's why

BG was a -7 for the game last night.

by sue369 on Mar 7, 2008 5:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

of course not ... but

there was that Hinrich did during this sequence in the 3rd Quarter that Gordon (or Duhon, for that matter) was not capable of doing, as well.

by khandor on Mar 7, 2008 8:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's a very

small sample size. Go back a few games and BG and Hughes stunk the place up.

by sue369 on Mar 7, 2008 5:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

if they stunk together then ...

I'd be willing to bet that they were not on the floor together with Deng & Noah/Thomas.

by khandor on Mar 7, 2008 8:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It was

one game. Does not mean it would happen ever again.

by sue369 on Mar 7, 2008 10:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

khandor, you're my new favorite stooge

if you look at the gameflow, (which is infinitely more helpful than the play by play) that Hinrich was in for the 17-0 run that was precipitated by his hard foul. Gordon didn't come in until the run was over, and Deng didn't do anything until the Cavs foolishly took LBJ off of him. Hinrich scored all of his points at the end of the 1st half during a run which brought the bulls back into the game. Watch the game.

Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 8, 2008 12:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

by khandor on Mar 7, 2008 4:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 7, 2008 4:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Not a snowball's chance in h*ll ...

with Boylan coaching, based on what I've seen in the games vs Cleveland.

by khandor on Mar 7, 2008 4:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

oh, yes he can ...

Gordon can definitely play the PG effectively, for this team ... if his Wings are players like Hughes, Deng, Sefolosha & Nocioni ... and his Bigs are Thomas, Noah and Gray.

:-)

by khandor on Mar 7, 2008 4:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs