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'Winning isn't everything' doesn't just pertain to Larry Hughes

Blogabull_s_tiny by your friendly BullsBlogger on in News

This place shouldn't be Blog-a-Tyrus&Noah, but honestly: it's tough to be too happy about a gimme victory when Noah plays 20 minutes, Tyrus plays 8, and neither play in the last 16 minutes of the game.

Yes, Tyrus looked terrible tonight. In those 8 minutes, he had 4 fouls. But there's still two fouls left, and whether he looks good or bad, he needs to play. Noah as well. For 30+ minutes. Even Boylan's misguided philosophy of 'A-game or sit next to me' has no teeth: they're both pulled when they're playing well too, and treated differently than the rest of the team.

 The Bulls are competing for the lowest seed in the lamest conference playoff race ever, and have a coach willing to hold onto any lead like grim death, as each win serves his resume towards some fruitless (hopefully, sheesh) attempt at a full-time job.

It's unproductive and pretty maddening that in a lost season we can't even get 30 games to learn more about two of the most important players on the team. Instead we get to see Boylan do a lot of coaching.

On the bright side, Hinrich, Gooden, and Noc played well, Gordon salvaged a horrible start with a good 4th quarter.

Luol Deng had his best game since coming back from injury, although Boylan left him out there for almost 43 minutes. Yet another short-sited strategy in a hollow victory.

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Tyrus tried too hard today
He was so aggressive on the floor, he couldn't get into the flow when the Bulls were actually doing great on offense.  
Dickey Simpkins>Ben Wallace

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 4, 2008 11:18 PM CST   0 recs

can you blame him?
the guy wants to play so bad, and probably feels like he has to take over the game on both ends  of the floor in order to get more playing time.

when you constantly have to look over your shoulder to see if you're going to get yanked, the tendency is to try to do everything and not let the game come to you.

by Orange Juice on Mar 5, 2008 12:35 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

He does that all the time
when he comes off the bench, hes just too pumped up trying to prove that he should be a starter. I feel for the guy because he should be a starter.

by Takeaseat on Mar 5, 2008 8:25 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

right
i think i mentioned this in the game thread too - sometimes he gets excitable and picks up those fouls.  usually when he's left out he calms down, but his 2nd stint was no better tonight.

he's allowed to have a bad game.  it happens.

by Jaina on Mar 5, 2008 8:29 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

er
last night.

by Jaina on Mar 5, 2008 8:30 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Right. It's not even about Thomas anymore.
Or Noah or whomever. It's a misguided philosophy for a franchise on developing "true" talent. IF they were competing for the top spots in the playoffs, that'd it'd be acceptable.* As someone once said: "I don't care who plays, I just want them to win." That's Boylan's philosophy (I think), and at this point, it's just sad. Kelly Dwyer said, between Meyers and Boylan, that Paxson needed to tell Boylan that he wasn't getting the job no matter how well the team did, he can take it or leave it. How many developmental minutes have been lost in this incredibly misguided attempt at winning?

This season is close to lost on two fronts: not only has it been shitty record-wise, but now none of the youngsters are getting that "valuable" experience that will "justify" their playing time next year. Kinda sad like that, huh?

*A certain anti-Thomas couple will disagree, I'm sure.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 4, 2008 11:21 PM CST   0 recs

I like your thinking
I hadn't thought if it this way, but if I was Boylan - a career assistant that has half a season to prove himself to secure his dream job - I'd probably rely on veterans too.  As much as I like Noah and Tyrus, they aren't clearly better than Joe Smith and Gooden just yet.  Plus, if I'm going down, it sure as hell wouldn't be because a couple unproven 20 year olds screwed up when I needed them most.

I still don't like Boylan, but he's stuck between a rock and a hard place.  If there's anybody to fault for not playing the rookies, it's Paxson, who first signed Joe Smith and second replaced Skiles with someone whose career depends on winning now.

by YaoPau on Mar 4, 2008 11:51 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

good point
making the playoffs is a HUGE deal to any head coach because it's something that they can point to on their resume and record.

"hey look at me, before I took over we were out of the playoffs, and after I took over we made the playoffs. I'm awesome!"

Boylan must be salivating at the fact that his team could be 5 games under .500 and still make the playoffs. And I know for sure that he dreams of upsetting Boston or Detroit in the first round and signing that 10-year NBA head coaching contract.

by Orange Juice on Mar 5, 2008 12:47 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I could easily have liked Boylan...
if he'd spent the appropriate amount of time attempting a turnaround and then had the integrity to look after the team's future,  It would have been a true feather in his cap to have the young bigs functional by year end.  To play this game like it mattered at their expense validates all of the hostily here.  I really have the impression that he hates the players on this team and would start ANY newcomers.  Good grief, using his logic, Durant, Connelly, Aldridge, Roy, etc ought to be riding pine until they have a mature game.  His Airness should have been benched for weeks at a time for breaking up good plays to go one on three.  Regardless of what their ceiling is, we need to get them there pronto.  If we'd ended up the season with the worst record because it was a teaching year, that would have been encouraging.  This mess has made this entire season a waste and a failure.

by California Al on Mar 5, 2008 7:08 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

as usual not entirely true
Noah and Thabo have started a significant amount of games and Noah at least will continue to do so.  TT should be getting more clock, but I don't get the impression anybody is giving up on him.  He wasn't even in that reported trade for Gasol.  He may even end up getting more minutes later this week when the bulls are getting their hats handed to them.  Don't overreact for one game.
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 5, 2008 11:02 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

it's two of the last three games
where he got under 10 minutes.

I don't think the organization is giving up on him either. I think there's a disconnect between Paxson and Boylan, and it's frustrating because Boylan should've been hired as a puppet.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 5, 2008 11:09 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

We'll disagree on this.
And as usual, you're more likely to be wrong. Maybe I think Thabo and Noah have only gotten the minutes because there weren't better choices for Boylan due to injuries and The Trade.

It's hard to make sense just looking at the numbers, and you'll remember it how you want, but Deng got hurt the first week of the year (and came back for a short stint), precisely when Thabo started playing more. At that point, one of Gordon, Hinrich and Deng were out of the lineup on a (fairly) consistent basis. Thabo had to get steady minutes because it was either him or Griffin. To Boylan's credit, he gave it to Thabo.

Noah isn't starting because Boylan's developing guys. He's doing it because he doesn't have anyone better. Noah's been the second center on the team all year and now he's the only one.

I don't think Boylan's trying to stunt the development of these guys (which is what you seem to think I meant), just that he'd rather have the veteran over a younger player nearly every time.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 5, 2008 11:46 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I could be wrong on this.
I'll allow that. I'd just like to see a convincing argument other than "They're playing more, so it's go to be true!" logic you've already given.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 5, 2008 12:06 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

why do you always forget what the point was?
I'm not arguing that Boylan isn't a clown, just that Noah and Thabo were and are getting good minutes, whatever the circumstances.  And TT will get more if he relaxes and plays better.
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 5, 2008 1:55 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

not likely
because Boylan's a clown.

Thabo only got minutes because everyone else was hurt. And I have little doubt that Thabs will have to 'earn' his spot back.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 5, 2008 2:10 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

fine
then the pertinent question is how long does it take him to "earn" that spot back.
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 5, 2008 2:13 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Indertiminate???
I have no faith that Boylan even knows what his own criteria for that would be, let alone being able to evaluate if someone has met it. Boylan might want people to earn their spots or whatever, but other than TO's and fouls (just happens to be the two things Tyrus needs most work on), he really can't determine what's good and what's bad. I know I'm really talking Boylan down, but I haven't seen any evidence otherwise.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 5, 2008 3:52 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Thabo was named the bulls player of the month
link so Boylan won't dare to keep him out more than a game or two.  ;-)
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 5, 2008 4:10 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Then you missed my original point.
Which was what you responded to. Obviously.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 5, 2008 3:53 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Nope
your underlying argument was bad, so you didn't actually have a point, which is usually the point.  ;-)
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 5, 2008 4:04 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

What was my underlying argument?
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 5, 2008 4:17 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

point
This season is close to lost on two fronts: not only has it been shitty record-wise, but now none of the youngsters are getting that "valuable" experience that will "justify" their playing time next year. Kinda sad like that, huh?
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 5, 2008 4:22 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, well...
...I guess I'd consider a "commitment to youth" an important part of that. Having that would "guarantee" minutes night-in and night-out. If Thabo comes back and only gets 15 mpg, that's different than 30 minutes.

Being allowed to play through a player's mistakes is probably the most important of gaining that expierience (one could argue it's the only part), something that would happen if there was an actual commitment to it.

So yeah, it does matter how they get their minutes. As usual, I'm sure you'll disagree.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 5, 2008 4:48 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

try to look at it from the perspective
of a bulls fan, and not just a TT fan.  The point is to get the guys playing well and the right way, not just playing.  TT played like crap last night, so he got pulled.  If he was the starter and the team was counting on him for big production, he would have hurt them by getting in foul trouble.  He needs to understand that and I think he does and will do a better job in the future.  But you can't reward him for playing like that by leaving him out there.  Same for Noah and Thabo.  If they are the future, then you need to insure a good future.

That said, I would have liked to see Boylan go back to TT one more time, too.  But at what point are you pulling guys just to get TT in.  The other guys deserve a chance to get a rhythm, too.  And the point is still to win the game if for no other reason than to get 4 more games for TT to potentially play in...

Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 5, 2008 6:11 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

contrarian bot returns
The other guys don't deserve anything. The point you pull them for Tyrus was the beginning of the season, but especially now.

There is no carrot of playing time. Just give him time. He's productive already, he proved it last season and is doing so again. We'll only know if he's getting better if he plays. That may mean a bad game once in a while. Sorry, bad games = inconsistency. A scary thought on this contending bunch.

Your last sentence is a joke, right? If this veteran charge gets the Bulls into the postseason, how many minutes do you really see Tyrus getting? What if he gets 2 FOULS?????????

I honestly don't believe you believe in 'teaching lessons' still. Come on.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 5, 2008 8:18 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

also, your point fails
because there's never a reward for good play. Judging by your commentary this season he should only get minutes taken away for bad play, after a good game it's no change.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 5, 2008 8:20 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I also said
I think Boylan sucks.  I think TT should play more if he plays well, too.  I can't help that Boylan only hears me 50% of the time.  And the last line was a little bit of sarcasm for you.
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 5, 2008 9:43 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Nice game, Luol
Glad to see him play well tonight.

by YaoPau on Mar 4, 2008 11:23 PM CST   0 recs

ugh
What are we really playing for here?  We're not getting out of the first round, so development should be the focus of this season.  If the kids can make the playoffs, then even better.  This is why Boylan has to be shown the door immediately.  I don't care who coaches the team as long as it isn't him.

by Stay Chisel on Mar 4, 2008 11:32 PM CST   0 recs

First round
Looking at the next 4 or 5 games, I think they'll soon be "almost out" of the race

by Option27 on Mar 4, 2008 11:41 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Yes, Tyrus looked terrible tonight.
Words to live by. By Matt, that is.

by Sky on Mar 4, 2008 11:49 PM CST   0 recs

He looked terrible, but...
He always looks terrible when he is looking over his shoulder for the next substitution.  He's operating under this misguided notion that he needs to 'make something happen' or else he'll get yanked.  Both he and Noah looked so good against Denver, but now neither of these guys will get consistent minutes (especially together).

I can't get excited about any of these wins when you know that they won't close out upcoming games against Cleveland, Detroit and Boston.  And where will we be next year?  Unless people are moved (Gooden or Noc), we'll be facing the same scenarios in the front court next year.  I don't know what's more important - the selection of the next coach or Pax's offseason clearing of the decks.

BTW - Boylan is such an idiot.  In his press conference, he talked about what a great leader Kirk has been since he took over as coach.  Inconsistent minutes, failure to make himself available to the media after those games - is that what makes a great leader?  

This whole team has reached new lows and it's just sad.

by Gene Banks on Mar 5, 2008 12:00 AM CST   0 recs

wow if you scroll up ...
you'll see I happened to use some of the same wording as you did before I got to your post. why none of the Bulls coaching staff has realized the obvious is beyond me.

by Orange Juice on Mar 5, 2008 12:58 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

First time I ever heard...
... that rookies having a bad game should be rewarded by staying on the floor, just in case they get better.

Sheesh.

by Sky on Mar 5, 2008 12:05 AM CST   0 recs

Tyrus isn't a rookie
But by the lack of playing time, I can see where you're mistaken

by Option27 on Mar 5, 2008 12:06 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Rookie? Soph? same thang
He's raw. He can't control himself. He hasn't developed. Last time I said he was rightly benched after committing three fouls in six mins (and then played three more) most bloggers went berserk. Now at least I see people seeing it like it is.  

by Sky on Mar 5, 2008 12:19 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

nuttin' but a PT-thang
why is he raw?
why can't he control himself?
why hasn't he developed?

BECAUSE HE'S NEVER GOTTEN CONSISTENT MINUTES.

have you noticed what Tyrus has done when he gets over 25 minutes a game? look at the game logs.

the "Sky" is the limit for this kid.

by Orange Juice on Mar 5, 2008 12:52 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

besides the already mentioned fact
that he's not a rookie, playing time isn't a 'reward' for playing poorly. It's independent of what he does on the floor. He should play just because he should. He may have a bad game once in a while, it's true. Hope you can handle the rawness.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 5, 2008 9:15 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I'm a big Tyrus advocate,
but if he had a game this year where he deserved no PT, it was this one.  

TT was a ghost out there today.  

Drew Gooden played really well today, too.  

So that's 2 strikes against his playing time tonight.  

That being said, it was pretty clear that Gooden was gassed in the 4th quarter.

I'm not sure he ever left the floor in the second half, but I know a couple minutes into the 4th quarter he was too tired to play defense.  He wasn't even getting off the floor.  

Boylan would rather have a gassed Gooden standing around out there than TT playing the 4th quarter with 4 fouls.

GetYoSelfAHandful.blogspot.com

by MarketMaker on Mar 5, 2008 12:08 AM CST   0 recs

To clarify-
I meant I'm not sure he ever went to the bench in the 2nd half, but he had stopped jumping due to how tired he was at the onset of the 4th.
GetYoSelfAHandful.blogspot.com

by MarketMaker on Mar 5, 2008 12:12 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Noah did play well
Tyrus was bad enough that I can understand not putting him back in, but there was no reason that Noah should have played so little.  He dominated the boards - he had 9 rebounds in only 21 minutes.  Gooden should not be playing center for more than a few minutes a game.  I'd rather see Gray get more minutes than play Gooden at the 5.

by Big D on Mar 5, 2008 12:23 AM CST   0 recs

I think it's funny
That some people think it proves a point that TT is "raw" when he has games like this.  Well, that just proves everyone's moaning that he doesn't get enough playing time.  If he had consistent playing time and had these kinds of performances routinely, we'd all agree he shouldn't be starting, and is at best a high-energy impact guy.  Too bad we don't know for sure, because he's been yanked around and treated differently than every other player this season.  I don't know why people seem to take joy in TT coming up short.
Dickey Simpkins>Ben Wallace

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 5, 2008 12:47 AM CST   0 recs

And TT is not a 2nd round draft pick
He's the number 2 pick in the draft for all intensive purposes! You play those guys! Operating under an assumption that he should be yanked unless he plays like Lebron as rookie is ridiculous. When you invest the number pick in the draft on someone you best be letting him on the court or else what's the point. Given that Bulls have no dominant player at the 4 its even more important to develop him. Its been said before, we're really not in the playoff race, if this isnt the time to develop players then when is.

by bullsfaninla on Mar 5, 2008 12:58 AM CST   0 recs

Deng playing 43 minutes was also insane
He's just coming back from an injury, yet Boylan felt the need to play him 43 minutes against maybe the worst team in the league?  The Bulls were in control the entire second half; there was no reason to play him that much.  Deng is the Bulls' biggest asset right now - they can't afford for him to get hurt again.

by Big D on Mar 5, 2008 1:17 AM CST   0 recs

Too many minutes?
Hardly. Luol needs to get back in a rhythm.  He hasn't had one all season long.  Any time an opportunity comes up to get Luol clicking at the United Center is good by me.  Boylan commented to KC Johnson about how Luol's defense was what created the flow for his offensive production.  This is exactly right.  Our core are players that feed off defense to generate effective offense.

Last night was a textbook 'Skiles' coached game.  Those effective defensively played.  When the lead was well in hand, you could change defense for offense.  Hughes sat the whole fourth quarter despite playing very effectively to open the half.

Bottom line, Luol has to get going.  This was a good game for that.  Rudy Gay has been scoring at will most nights, but it's for obvious reasons.  He really doesn't play defense.  Luol exploited that.  Good.  More please.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 5, 2008 8:31 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

The problem is, he's coming off a nagging injury
Playing him monster minutes against a terrible team is just asking for trouble.  What good is it for Deng to get into a flow if he's out for again with another flare up of tendinitis.

by snley on Mar 5, 2008 8:47 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

that and
after playing 44 against was he was clearly not at his best against the cavs.  he probably tightened up.  it's great to see him play well, but 43 min was unnecessary.

by Jaina on Mar 5, 2008 8:54 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

As the game wore on
he get less and less lift on his shots.  A number of close in attempts were on line but just fell off the front of the rim.  To me this says he doesn't have his leg strength back.

by alec on Mar 5, 2008 8:57 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

can anyone comment on the positives of this game
how about kirk going off and working the shit out of conley. Since when does a guy who has dunked once in his life get four blocks? I like the balanced attack and although its too bad, i dont know if TT is fit to stay here he is not going to get enough time. Watch him pull a chandler and go nuts when he gets time and a better PG props to hinrich aside, CP3 is a legit MVP candidate. A win is a win and they still had a big letdown, but maybe Boylan is finally figuring out a combination that will work, even if it doesnt include ty tom. but at least he isnt playing duhon anymore even with thabo out thank god.

by opkevin on Mar 5, 2008 1:56 AM CST   0 recs

The coaches coached
Conley is on scouting reports now.  Force him to his right.  Make him play on his weak side.  The entire right side of the floor is an area to exploit his weaknesses.  This is where the steals and blocks originated.

Now, how do we get coaches to coach every game?

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 5, 2008 8:33 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Unrelated...
This is unrelated to anything important, but did anyone see Norm van Lier during the post-game show? My god, he looked like he was on the last hour of a three-day bender... or under the influence of something stronger, if you get my drift. Red-rimmed eyes, fidgeting relentlessly, spacing out and forgetting he's on camera... I know he's a strange old bird, but Christ, man! Get it together!

To be fair, I suppose if my job were to analyze this god-awful mess, I'd keep a bottle of Jamison's within reach at all times, too.

by ChrisRobin on Mar 5, 2008 2:18 AM CST   0 recs

He's had the flu.
25% of the kids and half the teachers are out at my daughter's school.  So, cut poor Norm a little slack.

by alec on Mar 5, 2008 8:59 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Nice to see
the two captains have great games. Wish they would play like that all the time.

by sue369 on Mar 5, 2008 8:25 AM CST   0 recs

Right.
All the bitchin that any of us do (myself included obviously), it's still about Hinrich, Deng and now to a lesser extent, Gordon.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 5, 2008 8:50 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Game flow shows removing Noah was a bad idea
without ever inserting him back into the game.

http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20080304&game=MEMCHI

You'll also notice how the Crittenton/Lowery lineup was too much for Ben Gordon.  He can't guard either player.  He couldn't even protect an area let alone play man defense.  How can his feet be so slow without the basketball yet he's fairly quick with his feet while controlling the basketball.  It is usually the other way around.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 5, 2008 8:38 AM CST   0 recs

I was really surprised by Lowry
I knew he was a great ball handler and passer, but at 'nova he couldn't shoot worth a damn.

(Of course, this game could have been nothing more than just another in a long line of players having career games against the Bulls this year.)

They had Lawry and Crttenten both on the floor for long stretches...is Crit a dreaded Kirkian combo guard or is he a point guard--I ask this in terms of his being a potential trade target for the Bulls this summer.

by alec on Mar 5, 2008 9:16 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I don't see the Bulls going after
a 21 year point guard. Even if he was PURE. We won't know if Crittenton is or isn't during this season, and I don't feel like finding out.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 5, 2008 9:20 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Where do you stand
on the Bulls needing/not needing an upgrade at point guard?

by alec on Mar 5, 2008 9:39 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Or, how about this--
Could you rank the Bulls personnel upgrade needs?  I'd be inclined to say #1: front court scoring, and #2: point guard (I'll refrain from saying "pure"--but that's what i mean, anyway).

by alec on Mar 5, 2008 9:50 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Hinrich is not close to the problem.
I don't get the dislike of him. He's an above-average PG, end of story. Unless there's an above-above-average PG to be had, or Kirk can be used to get someone better at another position, PG shouldn't be addressed in the least.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 5, 2008 10:26 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I think it's fair to ask
if Kirk can make Noah better in a way similar to how Paul makes Chandler better.  In my opinion, this is something the elite point guards are able to do.  Not only are they adept at getting their own offense when needed, but they can also set other players up to get theirs.  I don't believe there is a player currently on the Bulls roster that can do that.  

When you look at the really great point guards--from the grainy old black and white footage of Cousy, through Magic Johnson and Stockton, to Kidd, Nash, and now Paul, Deron Williams (and of course many others over the years)--what they all have in common is that they make the team better (or "more better") than merely their own contributions in the box score might imply.

I would further say that if you're not going to get that kind of play from your point guard, then you need some other player to be outstandingly spectacular--Bird, MJ, Kobe, LBJ.  These players so rarely come along that I think it's easier to build with a damn good point guard than it is to find (or fall into, through the luck of the draft) a transcendent star.  

by alec on Mar 5, 2008 10:56 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

So what you're saying is, if you don't have a star
at any of the other 4 positions, you'd be best served having a star at PG?  Wow, that's profound.  

by snley on Mar 5, 2008 11:07 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

a small forward who's as good at small forward
as Chris Paul is at point guard is going to have the same more better effect. Because he's more better, more likely.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Mar 5, 2008 11:08 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Everybody's jumping on my mention
of Chris Paul.

I'd be very happy with Calderon, who is not anyehere near the mvp converstion that Paul is in.

I'd be happy with Lowry, or TJ Ford, even.  I think they would make a bigger imopact on making the Bulls better than a Calderon-equivalent small forward.

by alec on Mar 5, 2008 11:29 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

yes you mentioned Paul
as well as Stockton, Magic, Cousy...

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 5, 2008 11:40 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

a better sf
would make Hinrich a better looking PG.
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 5, 2008 1:59 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

uh, it's not fair
because Chris Paul IS a 'transcendent star', and a far better player than Kirk.

So yes, all of the best point guards of any generation are better than Kirk. You cracked the code.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 5, 2008 11:11 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Paul is superior to Kirk
In just about every arena other than fg% outside of the paint and free throw shooting.

I don't think you really compare them because Paul is lengths ahead of Kirk in body control, balance, dribbling, and maneuvering inside the paint.  It stems from foot speed where Paul is one the best at moving his feet and Kirk tends to drag his when surrounded by defenders.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 5, 2008 11:21 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

That's all over the place.
There's a huge difference between "elite" PG's and merely "pure" PG's. One is Chris Paul; the other is Steve Blake. No one's arguing that Paul would be better to have than Hinrich. If it were a straight swap, I'd rather have Arenas than Hinrich at PG, and he's less 'pure'.

How intentional is your awkwardness and how much is natural? For all your "pure" and "true" talk, you sure muddy the waters of discussion.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 5, 2008 11:26 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Then clarify it for me.
I don't mind.  I'm just trying to lead you guys who "know" into a discussion fo what's the most important next step the Bulls should make in order to get the most bang for their improvement buck.

by alec on Mar 5, 2008 11:32 AM CST