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Bulls blown out by Sixers

Blogabull_tiny by your friendly BullsBlogger on in News

Sixers beat writer Marc Narducci on tonight's game:

There are many differences right now between the 76ers and Chicago Bulls, but the biggest has to do with the respective motors of the two teams.

The Sixers motor never stops and the Bulls don't appear to be playing with much conviction these days.

That sure was the appearance after the Sixers ran over Chicago, 121-99 on Wednesday, outscoring the Bulls, 30-2 in fastbreak points.

The Sixers most impressive trait is that they go hard virtually every night. Chicago meanwhile, which was coming off a big win on Tuesday over Atlanta, appeared lifeless.

For all the impressive traits of the Sixers, playing hard may be No. 1. Usually the first thing opposing scouts and players mention is how hard the Sixers go at it. And while it's difficult to look into an opponent's collective heart, the Bulls didn't look ready to compete.

Of course much of the blame goes to the Sixers, who came out with an aggressive style and never let up. The Sixers beat the Bulls three games to one this season and in the previous game they overcame an 18-point fourth quarter deficit to win in Chicago. This may be too simplistic, but it seems a case of the Sixers seemingly wanting it more than Chicago these last two games.

The Bulls are an example that talent doesn't always win in the NBA. The Bulls have some talented players, but the pieces seem oddly out of place. The Sixers on the other hand have been a selfless team, never caring about who scores. Against Chicago, the Sixers had 36 assists (including 18 by Andre Miller) and 12 turnovers.

The fact that the Sixers players aren't worried about who lights up the stat sheet is why their scoring is often balanced.  Against the Bulls, eight players had eight or more points and five were in double figures, including three off the bench - Lou Williams, Rodney Carney and Thaddeus Young.
The Sixers have beaten a lot of teams lately with more talent (although Chicago doesn't fall in that category).

The key is playing together and right now, it's hard to find a more cohesive bunch than the Sixers and a more dispirited group than the Bulls.

This echoes the article I linked in the game thread, saying that the Sixers are the try-hardy non-stars that the Bulls once were.

But going over that comparison (look at their respective draft places, for one) isn't the point: merely that in these fading days of the season, merely trying can get you some cheap wins. It was usually the time where the Bulls surged towards the playoffs. Now they're the ones playing out the string, not really trying unless it's their turn to chuck up a shot.

One more loss to Atlanta on Friday and even the mouthpieces of the organization can say it's over. By this point, I can't wait.

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Ok so I'll bring it back to TT
A loss to Atlanta on Friday means short of broken bones, there is absolutely no reason to get that guy in the game for more than one stint.  That'll set him up nicely for summer league.
Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 26, 2008 11:37 PM CDT   0 recs

Drew Gooden
Boylan must not understand when Paxson tells him to play their 4th overall selection, as both of them have that distinction.
Dickey Simpkins>Ben Wallace

by rusty longley on Mar 27, 2008 12:31 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

always back to TT
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Mar 27, 2008 8:36 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Did you forget an extra "negative"...
...in that sentence?
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 27, 2008 9:15 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

ironic, huh
Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 27, 2008 11:37 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Sixers have been impressive recently ...
... winning more than a few games against top playoff teams (Boston, Detroit, San Antonio, Phoenix). They're a lock for the playoffs now and they're just a better team than the Bulls (how sad is it to admit that, after we were expected to be an Eastern Conference contender this season).

What pisses me off the most is that I still don't think the three teams ahead of us for the 8th spot (Atlanta, New Jersey, Indy freaking Ana) are better than us. They all suck.

If we actually fixed our pathetic attitudes and had just an average coach, we could've EASILY slid into that last playoff spot. Just being around .500 gets you a shot at home-court advantage this year in the East.

Unacceptable. We're tanking, but we're really not. We're trying to make the playoffs, but we're really not. How is this not the worst season ever in the history of the Bulls franchise?

by Orange Juice on Mar 26, 2008 11:43 PM CDT   0 recs

Something about the Sixers
is that one of the big excuses for the Bulls has been Gordon and Deng's impending free agency.  

Well, it's hard to look at that as an excuse when you see Andre Iguodala, who turned down a similar deal to what our guys were offered, kicking ass and taking names.

For that matter, they've got Louis Williams who's going to be an RFA too.  And lets be honest about it, where do we rate Gordon vs. Louis Williams and Monta Ellis?

If you're going to take a look at an RFA undersized scorer, wouldn't you check out both of those guys before you'd look at Gordon?

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Mar 27, 2008 12:13 AM CDT   0 recs

Talk to me baby
I'm with you.  You're saying exactly what I wanted to write.

Igoudala, Williams, and Miller just carved up the Bulls with dribble penetration until they drew a second defender.  That help usually came from in and around the baseline and the now wide open Sixer players knew exactly where to go, THE RIM.  I thought I was watching a college team defend against a pro team.

I'll give the Sixers most of the credit.  They are the hottest team in the NBA right now.  Since they fired Billy King and hired Ed Stefanski the team is like a whole new operation.  More players see the court, Mo Cheeks has job security, Igoudala attacks the rim almost every time he touches the ball, previously hardly playing Rodney Carney comes in and knocks down his wide open shots, nobody seems to know Thaddeus Young is left handed, and I'm burying my face in my hands watching this.

Is Louis Williams better than Gordon?  It appears so, but correct for the fact that Gordon is guarding Williams which means Lou is getting to any spot he wants to do further damage.  I need to call my uncle, a Sixers fan, and ask him what he thinks.  It has to be a helluva lot of fun to watch the Sixers right now.

When Deng and Igoudala both turned down extensions one of the things I thought might be good was if the teams traded for the other.  AI to Chicago and Luol to Philly.  You have to wonder if Billy King would have done that to maybe save his job.

I think Monta will look a lot worse in any other city other than San Francisco.  His defense is worse than Gordon's, but he can do whatever he wants on offense inside Nellieball.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 27, 2008 3:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Williams and Gordon
at age 21 (Williams this year, Gordon's rookie year). pretty comperable:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=gordobe01&y1=20 05&p4=willilo02&y4=2008

Ben shot a little better, rebounded a bit better, and is a slightly better defender (if you can believe that...but if you think about it Williams is even smaller).

Williams with the edge in assist and turnover numbers, as well as getting to the line.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 3:53 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

of course, right now?
Ben's had 2 more similar seasons to that, and one great season (last year). So he wins.

It's all relative though, I'm not sure Williams turns down $50m.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 3:57 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

have you seen draft measurements on Williams
I can't find them in the 2005 lists.  His arms seem much longer than Ben's.  I know Lou has a great vert, but his arms are long enough where he's able to do some pretty sick dunks, get fingers on standard passes, and overall bother guards with his length.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 27, 2008 4:38 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

don't know
google, I guess. sBulls is always handy for this info.

I'd guess Gordon has pretty long arms too.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 5:21 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

wait a minute
has anyone (around here, anyway) actually endorsed the idea that the contract extensions were actually a valid excuse?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 3:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

For the two guys involved, yes.
The contract extensions appear to have had an effect on how those two guys played this season.  It's hard to measure, sure, but Gordon has looked like he's shooting for a big contract on various occassions and Deng looks like he's seen a ghost.  

Personally, my theory is just that the talent in the rest of the league just exceeded the Bulls' ability to play harder.  I always thought the Bulls tradiontially got off to slow starts because their intensity could be more easily matched in the first half when opponents are fresher, healthier, and still motivated because the talent level was generally equal or in favor of the opponent.  In the second half, the Bulls would maintain that same level of intensity, but opponents were now tired, injured, or out of the playoff picture and talent would succumb to harder play.  This year the first half has become the whole season.  

by messwiththebull on Mar 28, 2008 8:29 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's like using a time machine
Weren't the Bulls this Sixers team a few years ago?  The hustle, the shutdown defense, the "wtf why is this team so good?"  Budding superstars, young talent, savvy PG, enticing big men....

Thank God the rest of the NBA has been amazing this year, I would have gone clinically insane by now.

Dickey Simpkins>Ben Wallace

by rusty longley on Mar 27, 2008 12:29 AM CDT   0 recs

Get ready for your '12 Sixers!
The day will come when Thaddeus Young disappears every 4th quarter, Louis Williams consistently gives up 20 point quarters to regular-sized shooting guards, and Jason Smith misses practice to watch Colorado St. play Colorado.

Be more reasonable, the Bulls are way ahead of the Sixers at this point.

by YaoPau on Mar 27, 2008 11:10 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

One thing i dont get is
why the bulls dont play the hot hand. Thabo from the looks of it(didnt watch the game) had a decent night  shooting 8-11 while BG shot 3-12 and played more minutes than Thabo. I understand that Gordon can light it up if he gets going but how many times has that happened this season? And for contract years to get shown up by Andre Igoudala who you think you are better than, BG and Deng you are nuts for turning down any where from 10-12 million a year. AI is wa better than both of you combined maybe hes the so called "star" we need.

by eross226 on Mar 27, 2008 12:36 AM CDT   0 recs

they don't go to the hot hand
because they've given up as a team, and are shooting when they decide it's their turn.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 9:57 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

if you watched the game
it was actually much worse.  Because after Thabo tore it up in the 2nd, Boylan did not play Thabo in the 3rd.  Boylan completely took thabo out of his rhythm.  

by danger mouse on Mar 27, 2008 2:38 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

more screaming at the TV
Anyone have Boylan's cell?  Any other coaches' cell?  I'd like to txt message them some substitution patterns.  But to not insert the hottest player on your team as soon as possible is yet another arrow of death in Boylan's quiver.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 27, 2008 3:33 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I didn't get
a chance to see the game last night, and from the looks of the papers and blogs this morning, that was a good thing.  

They have only won the 2nd part of a back-to-back 3 times this season, so last night's loss was expected.  But I didn't think they would completely lay an egg.  How do you go from 31 points one night to 0 points the next??  Dang, I don't think anyone was expecting 31 again, but at least give me 12-15.  Not to pick on Gooden, but his last two games have been a microcosm of the Bulls play all season long.

In case anyone hasn't realized it yet, this team has mentally checked out.  Inconsistency has been the M.O. all season long.  Everyone has zoned out (players and coaches) and they're ready for the season to end.  NOW they finally know how us fans feel...just get it over with!

by NormVanBeer on Mar 27, 2008 8:45 AM CDT   0 recs

Was i seeing it right last night
when it looked like the Sixers were running the DDM offense (re the SI article CalAl linked us to in the Calipari diary)?  

They seem to be a team with a few players who thrive on taking you off the dribble--Iggy and Louis Williams get to the basket at will against Deng and Gordon/Hinrich.

I can see the comparison to last year's Bulls in terms of energetic team play, but they look to me like a completely differently constructed team--good, quick ball handlers vs. stand-around jump-shooters.

by alec on Mar 27, 2008 8:48 AM CDT   0 recs

completely agree
iguodala, williams, miller - they can all take their man off the dribble and actually be a threat to score, whereas deng's first step is terribly slow and his handle is underdeveloped, hinrich can get in the lane but rarely finishes, and gordon falls down or throws up a flailing shot at least half the time he drives.  Having the option to actually finish a drive or drop to an open shooter is way more successful than an empty attempt to suck in the defense and pass out to a shooter who now always has a hand in his face.  

If the sixers are smart about keeping lou williams and having him learn the finer points of handling the team from andre miller, and they keep iggy, their upside is way higher than the bulls' ever was.  They really are just time and a decent post scorer away from being eastern contenders.
   

by kig on Mar 27, 2008 9:03 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

let's not get ahead of ourselves
the sixers have been winning for all of 30+ games now.
Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 27, 2008 11:42 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ben Gordon
We all know he cant play defense but im tired of him eatiing up thabo's minutes, an committing stupid turnovers while not playing good defense. Im going to guess that Williams had his career high or somewhat close to it. Which from the top of my head is a lot because of BG. Most of the 3's Williams took were wide open and Kirk would be running at him, while BG looks at him. Kirk is to gaurd the bigger guys like Miller, and you cant expect him to take both gaurds. So many times why guys were driving in and put up a shot BG lets them, and dont jump after em' of put a hand up. I think he figures he can go and score a 3 by taking a contested shot to get the points back. I am a big fan of Thabo and Kirk out there, though Boylan being the retard he was send out sum horrible lineups. Did Thabo even play the 4th quarter, much less the 2nd half??

by Yibs on Mar 27, 2008 9:00 AM CDT   0 recs

I forgot to mention
Little guys like Rondo, Kyle Lowry, and Travis Diner have all had there ways scoring aganist the Bulls (career highs), and if you watch the game a lot of it is on BG.

by Yibs on Mar 27, 2008 9:02 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Spot on.
82games.com net +/- per 100 poss.

Noah +7,7
Thomas +4,8
Thabo +3,9
Kirk +2,2
Noc +1,2
Hughes +1,1

Duh -0,7
Gooden -1,6
Deng -2,9
BG -8,7!!

KC Johnson thought Kirk had been the worst player on the Bulls this year. What an idiot. Can't take him seriously after that. It's clearly BG.

Wonder if somebody is regretting not signing some contracts... Neither should make that amount for their entire careers anyway.

I would keep Duhon over both BG and Hughes, but due to the contract that's not gonna happen. no way does Cheapo Jerry buy him out. Hell, he doesn't even bother paying for a proper GM or coach. Imagine if he had resigned Phil in `98! He SHOULD have a Jerry Sloan thing going in Chicago if Cheapo wasn't all about the green.

Enough with the rambling... Im thru

by Bass on Mar 27, 2008 9:16 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I forgot Gray
He's at -2,1

Making our RFA's the worst on the team in this category. Thank you for not signing, guys! ;)

by Bass on Mar 27, 2008 9:24 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

those aren't even correct
and if you think Deng and Gordon are the worst players on the team, then put it in your sig or something so we know to ignore you.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 9:36 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I understand you find it hard to take in
that BG sucks, seeing he is (for some strange reason) your favourite Bulls player. :)

I said specifically in THIS statistical category but of course you conveniently choose to ignore that.

To further clarify (since that obviously is needed with you) I do not think that Deng is the second worst player on the team. I do however believe (and the stats vehemently support this) that BG has had the most profound negative influence on Bulls play this year. Although that may just be because Boylan doesn't show up in the statsheet... ;)

by Bass on Mar 27, 2008 9:52 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It might also be fair to say that, if anything,
Gordon's stats are inflated.  His first stint of the game is generally vs the other team's second unit, meaning Gordon should dominate that match-up.  

by alec on Mar 27, 2008 9:56 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Good point :)
But in general I find pos vs. pos. comparison to be of little use as basketball is a team game. So how the team performs with/sans a player is a much better criterion for player evaluation.

But it's not like Matt is the only one being suckered by BG's "Sweet-shooting" "high production". The announcers at the Philly game introduced BG as "sixth man extraordinaire"... (Barf!)

by Bass on Mar 27, 2008 10:32 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

true to the point
i enjoyed seeing those numbers, it only proves my point. another problem due to his lack of defense is that people blow by him attack the middle and either kick out for an open shot or will draw the foul on someone else who comes up to help. every1 blames kirk for picking up fouls, and i agree that he does sometimes pick up needless ones, but other times it cause he or noch or someone else is helping on gordons man. though i have seen some terrbile officiating this season at bulls games, as a side note.

by Yibs on Mar 27, 2008 11:08 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Gotta love those numbers
that prove your point. ;)

by Bass on Mar 27, 2008 12:01 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

that makes Gordon look even worse on defense
With Gordon on the floor the Bulls give up an extra 10 points per 100 possessions...the highest by far on the team.  Now if you're going to say his first stint is against the opposing team's second unit...that makes it look even worse.

by Parrotman on Mar 27, 2008 10:37 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Did you see BG
trying to guard his guy last night by hanging on to the back of the guys jersey while running behind him? He got yanked right after that.

by sue369 on Mar 27, 2008 11:06 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Deng and Gordon
have both been playing atrocious defense lately

by Parrotman on Mar 27, 2008 10:09 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Unfortunately game-streaming for me has
not been so stable these last days so I haven't been able to finish a game in a week... :(

by Bass on Mar 27, 2008 10:56 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Phil didn't leave due to money........
he left because his relationship with Krause had got to the point where they couldn't work together anymore.

Krause was really pushing for Floyd to come in before the 97-98 season, but JR knew if that happened, Michael would retire (again) in a heartbeat.  He didn't want to pass on a chance for at least one more title. (Hell, I still think the Bulls could have won in '99.  Remember, Pippen missed 35 games at the start of the year and the Bulls still finished 62-20, tied for the best record in the league)

Remember, after Jackson was signed at the start of the season, Krause made the comment "Phil Jackson has been signed on as coach for the upcoming season, it will BE HIS LAST as head coach of the Chicago Bulls!"

by BullsAttitude on Mar 27, 2008 12:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Don't forget Hughes is also eating Thabo's minutes
Boylan also likes to go with a Gordon PG and Hughes SG backcourt.  This just means that nobody in the backcourt can defend.  Plus you get the added bonus of watching Hughes jack up 17 ft jumpers on 3-2 fast breaks.

by shoryuken on Mar 27, 2008 9:18 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I throw up
everytime BG and Hughes are in the same back court. That just shouldn't happen.

by sue369 on Mar 27, 2008 9:44 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I just get that feeling when i see hughes
I dont have much of a problem with ben gordon, its simple, if he isnt scoring, put thabo in who is at least capable of posting up (he did it somewhat against the sixers) and thabo plays good defense. Hughes...i dont know what he brings to teh table. When he starts with hinrich, the backcourt just looks wierd, when he is in with ben gordon, the two will compete for shots. I havent seen him with thabo yet, who i think would be a better backcourt companion for hughes.

I liked thabo starting, and i liked  ben gordon coming off the bench for instant offense. I actually wouldnt mind gordon starting and thabo coming off the bench to relieve gordons short comings (no pun intended), i dont like hughes as nothing more then a reserve. If i were coaching i would tell hughes straight up, drive, slash, and dont take a shot that is not within 10 feet of the basket, because he seems to be able to get the line alot better then anyone else.

Kirk Hinrich. The FORMER Best White American Point Guard in the NBA, Will Soon be Traded :(

by piccolomair on Mar 27, 2008 12:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Great article
I like a lot of this special part: "The Bulls have some talented players, but the pieces seem oddly out of place". Nooooooo!!! Are they out of place?!
If every one sees that, why Boylan doesn't? What a stupid coach!!!

I HATE BOYLAN... AND HUGHES

by bull83 on Mar 27, 2008 9:03 AM CDT   0 recs

Regarding "I hate ... Hughes"
Hughes has been awful.  If it wasn't clear at the trade, it's certainly clear now that we basically swapped unwanted players with the Cavs.  Whatever instinct Hughes once had to take the ball to the hoop is not there now.  I'm sure Cavs fans laugh at Hughes' stat lines like we laugh at Wallace's.  Getting Gooden appears to be the best part of that deal (last game notwithstanding).

I'm ready to go back to starting Thabo & Kirk - make Hughes the 3rd or 4th guard on the team.

"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy

by mdmnd9294 on Mar 27, 2008 9:32 AM CDT   0 recs

It was wishful thinking that he'd go back
to whatever slashy mcslashson he once was. He's older, has gotten hurt plenty of times...why would he all of a sudden go back to embracing contact in the lane?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 9:39 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Plus, I don't think I've ever seen
a less cut pro athlete.  Judging from his body, I'd say he hasn't spent ten minutes of the past ten years in the weight room.  He looks more like a recreational swimmer than a pro basketball player.

by alec on Mar 27, 2008 9:53 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I resemble that comment
I mean resent.
Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 27, 2008 11:48 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

look no
further than mr. gray... although i'm sure he could benchpress me with one arm, his trot reminds me of the stay-puff marshmallow man.

by leeac on Mar 27, 2008 5:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah, well
perhaps I exaggerate.

by alec on Mar 27, 2008 5:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

We're spoiled with Pippen and Jordan
I don't know if we're ever going to get players as dedicated as these guys ever again.

I sure hope so.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 27, 2008 5:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Excellent point
It's hard for us to imagine life as an NBA pro.  Easy to say "for $12 mil a year, he better bust his ass", but I'd imagine that there's a lot to get jaded about.  And once market conditions give you a max contract, there's very little reason to play your best (absorb a beating) unless you fall into a winning environment.  And this team is a totally dysfunctional family this year, and it's bringing out the worst in most of them.  So we got rid of one semi-retired fat cat for another.  What I don't get is why he plays.  We didn't have the horses to sit a center; we have SG's coming out of our ears.

by California Al on Mar 27, 2008 12:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Not to mention with Hughes,
he isn't the Bulls own big free agent mistake.  It's pretty widely acknoweldged, from what I've read, that taking back Hughes was not something the Bulls wanted at the time of the trade but something they had to do to move the other pieces around.  I can see a little "saving face" issue with feeling pressure to have the big dollar acquisition on the court, but that shouldn't be there at all with Larry.
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 27, 2008 1:19 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

In my mind
Thabo has earned his starting spot back. But the only problem is then you have BG and Hughes coming off the bench and sometimes playing together and that's not good.

by sue369 on Mar 27, 2008 9:47 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

the one positive part of the Boylan era
was that he unearthed Thabo. And then he manages to even screw that up.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 9:55 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That, and he's awakened
Kirk's latent leadership skills.  :Gag:

by alec on Mar 27, 2008 10:01 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

And don't forget how he
made the diminutive Aaron Gray someone you can see!
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 27, 2008 10:17 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

"Unearthed"
More like stumbled over. JimBozo the Clown

by Bass on Mar 27, 2008 10:05 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

he only unearthed him
because he was the only healthy guard we had!
"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Mar 27, 2008 10:10 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Actually he started
playing Thabo more and more and when Du went down with an injury Thabo moved into the starting spot. Skiles had Thabo buried so Boylan did give him a chance to prove himself and Thabo took advantage of it.

by sue369 on Mar 27, 2008 11:15 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

not really
looking at the game logs, the first few games under boylan, he only got like 5 minutes (including a dnp but that might have been due the abdominal strain).  had a couple 13 minute outings, then 26 in the game before kirk was injured.  when kirk was injured, thabo got 30, 27, and 28 in the three games. it was only then he really solidified himself and BG was injured shortly after (2 games where both kirk and ben where playing).  and he's been in the rotation ever since.

he only really had that one 26 minute game, and given tt's jerking around, it could easily have been a one time thing if kirk hadn't been injured in that game immediately following it.

"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Mar 27, 2008 12:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Considering he
was getting almost 0 minutes before Skiles was fired, 5, 13 or whatever is more than he had been getting. It was Boylan who put him in the games and gave him a chance. Thabo was smart enough to take advantage of those minutes.

by sue369 on Mar 27, 2008 1:29 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

again, not true
why don't you look at his player file on nba.com?

he did have 1 game where it says 0 min, but other than that, boylan did match his season low in minutes (2) on one of the occasions.  skiles played him only 2 minutes twice.  most nights he played at LEAST 5 minutes, hitting 14+ minutes 10 times, 20+ minutes 4 times.

"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Mar 27, 2008 1:34 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

to add
it was only once he began starting that he really took off.
"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Mar 27, 2008 1:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

and
i know i sort of refuted my original point by saying he didn't get minutes before the injuries, but at the same time, his improvement really began with his starting role... which i assume has to do with his confidence level.  that even though he got the 14 minutes he was playing with zero confidence.

but now i was just refuting the point that boylan was really playing him any more than skiles was.

"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Mar 27, 2008 1:40 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I was mostly going by
Dec. when Thabo was in Skiles dog house. I'm just using games in which all four guards played in.

In Dec. there were 12 games in which all four guards played in the same game. Thabo had 81 minutes in those 12 games for 6.75 min. average for those games.

In Jan. under Boylan there were 7 games in which all four guards played in the same game. Thabo had 97 minutes in those 7 games for 13.8 min. average for those games.

I guess we disagree on when he gained his confidence.

by sue369 on Mar 27, 2008 3:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

he didn't
score more than 10 points in a game until his 2nd start.

and he still had quite a few 0 pters in there (4, 5 if you count the Myers interim game) in his first games after skiles.  4/5 if you don't count the spurs game, 5/6 if you do.  even the game where he played 26 minutes he only scored 2 pts.  next game 9, next 17.  that 9 had matched his season high back in november.  his other stats (assists, rebounds) weren't better than anything he had done all season, either.  no confidence until his 17 pt/6 reb game in his 2nd start.  followed that up with 9/8, and then a double double with 12 pts 13 rebounds.

his minutes may have increased slightly in his dec vs initial boylan games, but his stats didn't until he got into the starting lineup.  confidence?  he hadn't taken more than 5 shots since november before, when? his 2nd start, the 17 point game.  seems like that's when he gained his confidence, to me.

"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Mar 27, 2008 3:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs