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Bulls blown out by Sixers

Blogabull_s_tiny by your friendly BullsBlogger on in News Comment 220 comments

Sixers beat writer Marc Narducci on tonight's game:

There are many differences right now between the 76ers and Chicago Bulls, but the biggest has to do with the respective motors of the two teams.

The Sixers motor never stops and the Bulls don't appear to be playing with much conviction these days.

That sure was the appearance after the Sixers ran over Chicago, 121-99 on Wednesday, outscoring the Bulls, 30-2 in fastbreak points.

The Sixers most impressive trait is that they go hard virtually every night. Chicago meanwhile, which was coming off a big win on Tuesday over Atlanta, appeared lifeless.

For all the impressive traits of the Sixers, playing hard may be No. 1. Usually the first thing opposing scouts and players mention is how hard the Sixers go at it. And while it's difficult to look into an opponent's collective heart, the Bulls didn't look ready to compete.

Of course much of the blame goes to the Sixers, who came out with an aggressive style and never let up. The Sixers beat the Bulls three games to one this season and in the previous game they overcame an 18-point fourth quarter deficit to win in Chicago. This may be too simplistic, but it seems a case of the Sixers seemingly wanting it more than Chicago these last two games.

The Bulls are an example that talent doesn't always win in the NBA. The Bulls have some talented players, but the pieces seem oddly out of place. The Sixers on the other hand have been a selfless team, never caring about who scores. Against Chicago, the Sixers had 36 assists (including 18 by Andre Miller) and 12 turnovers.

The fact that the Sixers players aren't worried about who lights up the stat sheet is why their scoring is often balanced.  Against the Bulls, eight players had eight or more points and five were in double figures, including three off the bench - Lou Williams, Rodney Carney and Thaddeus Young.
The Sixers have beaten a lot of teams lately with more talent (although Chicago doesn't fall in that category).

The key is playing together and right now, it's hard to find a more cohesive bunch than the Sixers and a more dispirited group than the Bulls.

This echoes the article I linked in the game thread, saying that the Sixers are the try-hardy non-stars that the Bulls once were.

But going over that comparison (look at their respective draft places, for one) isn't the point: merely that in these fading days of the season, merely trying can get you some cheap wins. It was usually the time where the Bulls surged towards the playoffs. Now they're the ones playing out the string, not really trying unless it's their turn to chuck up a shot.

One more loss to Atlanta on Friday and even the mouthpieces of the organization can say it's over. By this point, I can't wait.

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Ok so I'll bring it back to TT
A loss to Atlanta on Friday means short of broken bones, there is absolutely no reason to get that guy in the game for more than one stint.  That'll set him up nicely for summer league.
Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 26, 2008 11:37 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Drew Gooden
Boylan must not understand when Paxson tells him to play their 4th overall selection, as both of them have that distinction.
Dickey Simpkins>Ben Wallace

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 27, 2008 12:31 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

always back to TT
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Mar 27, 2008 8:36 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Did you forget an extra "negative"...
...in that sentence?
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 27, 2008 9:15 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ironic, huh
Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 27, 2008 11:37 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sixers have been impressive recently ...
... winning more than a few games against top playoff teams (Boston, Detroit, San Antonio, Phoenix). They're a lock for the playoffs now and they're just a better team than the Bulls (how sad is it to admit that, after we were expected to be an Eastern Conference contender this season).

What pisses me off the most is that I still don't think the three teams ahead of us for the 8th spot (Atlanta, New Jersey, Indy freaking Ana) are better than us. They all suck.

If we actually fixed our pathetic attitudes and had just an average coach, we could've EASILY slid into that last playoff spot. Just being around .500 gets you a shot at home-court advantage this year in the East.

Unacceptable. We're tanking, but we're really not. We're trying to make the playoffs, but we're really not. How is this not the worst season ever in the history of the Bulls franchise?

by Orange Juice on Mar 26, 2008 11:43 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Something about the Sixers
is that one of the big excuses for the Bulls has been Gordon and Deng's impending free agency.  

Well, it's hard to look at that as an excuse when you see Andre Iguodala, who turned down a similar deal to what our guys were offered, kicking ass and taking names.

For that matter, they've got Louis Williams who's going to be an RFA too.  And lets be honest about it, where do we rate Gordon vs. Louis Williams and Monta Ellis?

If you're going to take a look at an RFA undersized scorer, wouldn't you check out both of those guys before you'd look at Gordon?

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Mar 27, 2008 12:13 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Talk to me baby
I'm with you.  You're saying exactly what I wanted to write.

Igoudala, Williams, and Miller just carved up the Bulls with dribble penetration until they drew a second defender.  That help usually came from in and around the baseline and the now wide open Sixer players knew exactly where to go, THE RIM.  I thought I was watching a college team defend against a pro team.

I'll give the Sixers most of the credit.  They are the hottest team in the NBA right now.  Since they fired Billy King and hired Ed Stefanski the team is like a whole new operation.  More players see the court, Mo Cheeks has job security, Igoudala attacks the rim almost every time he touches the ball, previously hardly playing Rodney Carney comes in and knocks down his wide open shots, nobody seems to know Thaddeus Young is left handed, and I'm burying my face in my hands watching this.

Is Louis Williams better than Gordon?  It appears so, but correct for the fact that Gordon is guarding Williams which means Lou is getting to any spot he wants to do further damage.  I need to call my uncle, a Sixers fan, and ask him what he thinks.  It has to be a helluva lot of fun to watch the Sixers right now.

When Deng and Igoudala both turned down extensions one of the things I thought might be good was if the teams traded for the other.  AI to Chicago and Luol to Philly.  You have to wonder if Billy King would have done that to maybe save his job.

I think Monta will look a lot worse in any other city other than San Francisco.  His defense is worse than Gordon's, but he can do whatever he wants on offense inside Nellieball.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 27, 2008 3:31 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Williams and Gordon
at age 21 (Williams this year, Gordon's rookie year). pretty comperable:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=gordobe01&y1=20 05&p4=willilo02&y4=2008

Ben shot a little better, rebounded a bit better, and is a slightly better defender (if you can believe that...but if you think about it Williams is even smaller).

Williams with the edge in assist and turnover numbers, as well as getting to the line.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 3:53 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

of course, right now?
Ben's had 2 more similar seasons to that, and one great season (last year). So he wins.

It's all relative though, I'm not sure Williams turns down $50m.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 3:57 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

have you seen draft measurements on Williams
I can't find them in the 2005 lists.  His arms seem much longer than Ben's.  I know Lou has a great vert, but his arms are long enough where he's able to do some pretty sick dunks, get fingers on standard passes, and overall bother guards with his length.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 27, 2008 4:38 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

don't know
google, I guess. sBulls is always handy for this info.

I'd guess Gordon has pretty long arms too.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 5:21 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

wait a minute
has anyone (around here, anyway) actually endorsed the idea that the contract extensions were actually a valid excuse?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 3:46 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

For the two guys involved, yes.
The contract extensions appear to have had an effect on how those two guys played this season.  It's hard to measure, sure, but Gordon has looked like he's shooting for a big contract on various occassions and Deng looks like he's seen a ghost.  

Personally, my theory is just that the talent in the rest of the league just exceeded the Bulls' ability to play harder.  I always thought the Bulls tradiontially got off to slow starts because their intensity could be more easily matched in the first half when opponents are fresher, healthier, and still motivated because the talent level was generally equal or in favor of the opponent.  In the second half, the Bulls would maintain that same level of intensity, but opponents were now tired, injured, or out of the playoff picture and talent would succumb to harder play.  This year the first half has become the whole season.  

by messwiththebull on Mar 28, 2008 8:29 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's like using a time machine
Weren't the Bulls this Sixers team a few years ago?  The hustle, the shutdown defense, the "wtf why is this team so good?"  Budding superstars, young talent, savvy PG, enticing big men....

Thank God the rest of the NBA has been amazing this year, I would have gone clinically insane by now.

Dickey Simpkins>Ben Wallace

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 27, 2008 12:29 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Get ready for your '12 Sixers!
The day will come when Thaddeus Young disappears every 4th quarter, Louis Williams consistently gives up 20 point quarters to regular-sized shooting guards, and Jason Smith misses practice to watch Colorado St. play Colorado.

Be more reasonable, the Bulls are way ahead of the Sixers at this point.

by YaoPau on Mar 27, 2008 11:10 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

One thing i dont get is
why the bulls dont play the hot hand. Thabo from the looks of it(didnt watch the game) had a decent night  shooting 8-11 while BG shot 3-12 and played more minutes than Thabo. I understand that Gordon can light it up if he gets going but how many times has that happened this season? And for contract years to get shown up by Andre Igoudala who you think you are better than, BG and Deng you are nuts for turning down any where from 10-12 million a year. AI is wa better than both of you combined maybe hes the so called "star" we need.

by eross226 on Mar 27, 2008 12:36 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

they don't go to the hot hand
because they've given up as a team, and are shooting when they decide it's their turn.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 9:57 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if you watched the game
it was actually much worse.  Because after Thabo tore it up in the 2nd, Boylan did not play Thabo in the 3rd.  Boylan completely took thabo out of his rhythm.  

by danger mouse on Mar 27, 2008 2:38 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

more screaming at the TV
Anyone have Boylan's cell?  Any other coaches' cell?  I'd like to txt message them some substitution patterns.  But to not insert the hottest player on your team as soon as possible is yet another arrow of death in Boylan's quiver.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 27, 2008 3:33 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I didn't get
a chance to see the game last night, and from the looks of the papers and blogs this morning, that was a good thing.  

They have only won the 2nd part of a back-to-back 3 times this season, so last night's loss was expected.  But I didn't think they would completely lay an egg.  How do you go from 31 points one night to 0 points the next??  Dang, I don't think anyone was expecting 31 again, but at least give me 12-15.  Not to pick on Gooden, but his last two games have been a microcosm of the Bulls play all season long.

In case anyone hasn't realized it yet, this team has mentally checked out.  Inconsistency has been the M.O. all season long.  Everyone has zoned out (players and coaches) and they're ready for the season to end.  NOW they finally know how us fans feel...just get it over with!

by NormVanBeer on Mar 27, 2008 8:45 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Was i seeing it right last night
when it looked like the Sixers were running the DDM offense (re the SI article CalAl linked us to in the Calipari diary)?  

They seem to be a team with a few players who thrive on taking you off the dribble--Iggy and Louis Williams get to the basket at will against Deng and Gordon/Hinrich.

I can see the comparison to last year's Bulls in terms of energetic team play, but they look to me like a completely differently constructed team--good, quick ball handlers vs. stand-around jump-shooters.

by alec on Mar 27, 2008 8:48 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

completely agree
iguodala, williams, miller - they can all take their man off the dribble and actually be a threat to score, whereas deng's first step is terribly slow and his handle is underdeveloped, hinrich can get in the lane but rarely finishes, and gordon falls down or throws up a flailing shot at least half the time he drives.  Having the option to actually finish a drive or drop to an open shooter is way more successful than an empty attempt to suck in the defense and pass out to a shooter who now always has a hand in his face.  

If the sixers are smart about keeping lou williams and having him learn the finer points of handling the team from andre miller, and they keep iggy, their upside is way higher than the bulls' ever was.  They really are just time and a decent post scorer away from being eastern contenders.
   

by kig on Mar 27, 2008 9:03 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

let's not get ahead of ourselves
the sixers have been winning for all of 30+ games now.
Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 27, 2008 11:42 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ben Gordon
We all know he cant play defense but im tired of him eatiing up thabo's minutes, an committing stupid turnovers while not playing good defense. Im going to guess that Williams had his career high or somewhat close to it. Which from the top of my head is a lot because of BG. Most of the 3's Williams took were wide open and Kirk would be running at him, while BG looks at him. Kirk is to gaurd the bigger guys like Miller, and you cant expect him to take both gaurds. So many times why guys were driving in and put up a shot BG lets them, and dont jump after em' of put a hand up. I think he figures he can go and score a 3 by taking a contested shot to get the points back. I am a big fan of Thabo and Kirk out there, though Boylan being the retard he was send out sum horrible lineups. Did Thabo even play the 4th quarter, much less the 2nd half??

by Yibs on Mar 27, 2008 9:00 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I forgot to mention
Little guys like Rondo, Kyle Lowry, and Travis Diner have all had there ways scoring aganist the Bulls (career highs), and if you watch the game a lot of it is on BG.

by Yibs on Mar 27, 2008 9:02 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Spot on.
82games.com net +/- per 100 poss.

Noah +7,7
Thomas +4,8
Thabo +3,9
Kirk +2,2
Noc +1,2
Hughes +1,1

Duh -0,7
Gooden -1,6
Deng -2,9
BG -8,7!!

KC Johnson thought Kirk had been the worst player on the Bulls this year. What an idiot. Can't take him seriously after that. It's clearly BG.

Wonder if somebody is regretting not signing some contracts... Neither should make that amount for their entire careers anyway.

I would keep Duhon over both BG and Hughes, but due to the contract that's not gonna happen. no way does Cheapo Jerry buy him out. Hell, he doesn't even bother paying for a proper GM or coach. Imagine if he had resigned Phil in `98! He SHOULD have a Jerry Sloan thing going in Chicago if Cheapo wasn't all about the green.

Enough with the rambling... Im thru

by Bass on Mar 27, 2008 9:16 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I forgot Gray
He's at -2,1

Making our RFA's the worst on the team in this category. Thank you for not signing, guys! ;)

by Bass on Mar 27, 2008 9:24 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

those aren't even correct
and if you think Deng and Gordon are the worst players on the team, then put it in your sig or something so we know to ignore you.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 9:36 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I understand you find it hard to take in
that BG sucks, seeing he is (for some strange reason) your favourite Bulls player. :)

I said specifically in THIS statistical category but of course you conveniently choose to ignore that.

To further clarify (since that obviously is needed with you) I do not think that Deng is the second worst player on the team. I do however believe (and the stats vehemently support this) that BG has had the most profound negative influence on Bulls play this year. Although that may just be because Boylan doesn't show up in the statsheet... ;)

by Bass on Mar 27, 2008 9:52 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It might also be fair to say that, if anything,
Gordon's stats are inflated.  His first stint of the game is generally vs the other team's second unit, meaning Gordon should dominate that match-up.  

by alec on Mar 27, 2008 9:56 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good point :)
But in general I find pos vs. pos. comparison to be of little use as basketball is a team game. So how the team performs with/sans a player is a much better criterion for player evaluation.

But it's not like Matt is the only one being suckered by BG's "Sweet-shooting" "high production". The announcers at the Philly game introduced BG as "sixth man extraordinaire"... (Barf!)

by Bass on Mar 27, 2008 10:32 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

true to the point
i enjoyed seeing those numbers, it only proves my point. another problem due to his lack of defense is that people blow by him attack the middle and either kick out for an open shot or will draw the foul on someone else who comes up to help. every1 blames kirk for picking up fouls, and i agree that he does sometimes pick up needless ones, but other times it cause he or noch or someone else is helping on gordons man. though i have seen some terrbile officiating this season at bulls games, as a side note.

by Yibs on Mar 27, 2008 11:08 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gotta love those numbers
that prove your point. ;)

by Bass on Mar 27, 2008 12:01 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that makes Gordon look even worse on defense
With Gordon on the floor the Bulls give up an extra 10 points per 100 possessions...the highest by far on the team.  Now if you're going to say his first stint is against the opposing team's second unit...that makes it look even worse.

by Parrotman on Mar 27, 2008 10:37 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Did you see BG
trying to guard his guy last night by hanging on to the back of the guys jersey while running behind him? He got yanked right after that.

by sue369 on Mar 27, 2008 11:06 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Deng and Gordon
have both been playing atrocious defense lately

by Parrotman on Mar 27, 2008 10:09 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Unfortunately game-streaming for me has
not been so stable these last days so I haven't been able to finish a game in a week... :(

by Bass on Mar 27, 2008 10:56 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Phil didn't leave due to money........
he left because his relationship with Krause had got to the point where they couldn't work together anymore.

Krause was really pushing for Floyd to come in before the 97-98 season, but JR knew if that happened, Michael would retire (again) in a heartbeat.  He didn't want to pass on a chance for at least one more title. (Hell, I still think the Bulls could have won in '99.  Remember, Pippen missed 35 games at the start of the year and the Bulls still finished 62-20, tied for the best record in the league)

Remember, after Jackson was signed at the start of the season, Krause made the comment "Phil Jackson has been signed on as coach for the upcoming season, it will BE HIS LAST as head coach of the Chicago Bulls!"

by BullsAttitude on Mar 27, 2008 12:30 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don't forget Hughes is also eating Thabo's minutes
Boylan also likes to go with a Gordon PG and Hughes SG backcourt.  This just means that nobody in the backcourt can defend.  Plus you get the added bonus of watching Hughes jack up 17 ft jumpers on 3-2 fast breaks.

by shoryuken on Mar 27, 2008 9:18 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I throw up
everytime BG and Hughes are in the same back court. That just shouldn't happen.

by sue369 on Mar 27, 2008 9:44 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I just get that feeling when i see hughes
I dont have much of a problem with ben gordon, its simple, if he isnt scoring, put thabo in who is at least capable of posting up (he did it somewhat against the sixers) and thabo plays good defense. Hughes...i dont know what he brings to teh table. When he starts with hinrich, the backcourt just looks wierd, when he is in with ben gordon, the two will compete for shots. I havent seen him with thabo yet, who i think would be a better backcourt companion for hughes.

I liked thabo starting, and i liked  ben gordon coming off the bench for instant offense. I actually wouldnt mind gordon starting and thabo coming off the bench to relieve gordons short comings (no pun intended), i dont like hughes as nothing more then a reserve. If i were coaching i would tell hughes straight up, drive, slash, and dont take a shot that is not within 10 feet of the basket, because he seems to be able to get the line alot better then anyone else.

Kirk Hinrich. The FORMER Best White American Point Guard in the NBA, Will Soon be Traded :(

by piccolomair on Mar 27, 2008 12:28 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Great article
I like a lot of this special part: "The Bulls have some talented players, but the pieces seem oddly out of place". Nooooooo!!! Are they out of place?!
If every one sees that, why Boylan doesn't? What a stupid coach!!!

I HATE BOYLAN... AND HUGHES

by bull83 on Mar 27, 2008 9:03 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Regarding "I hate ... Hughes"
Hughes has been awful.  If it wasn't clear at the trade, it's certainly clear now that we basically swapped unwanted players with the Cavs.  Whatever instinct Hughes once had to take the ball to the hoop is not there now.  I'm sure Cavs fans laugh at Hughes' stat lines like we laugh at Wallace's.  Getting Gooden appears to be the best part of that deal (last game notwithstanding).

I'm ready to go back to starting Thabo & Kirk - make Hughes the 3rd or 4th guard on the team.

"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy

by mdmnd9294 on Mar 27, 2008 9:32 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It was wishful thinking that he'd go back
to whatever slashy mcslashson he once was. He's older, has gotten hurt plenty of times...why would he all of a sudden go back to embracing contact in the lane?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 9:39 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Plus, I don't think I've ever seen
a less cut pro athlete.  Judging from his body, I'd say he hasn't spent ten minutes of the past ten years in the weight room.  He looks more like a recreational swimmer than a pro basketball player.

by alec on Mar 27, 2008 9:53 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I resemble that comment
I mean resent.
Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 27, 2008 11:48 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

look no
further than mr. gray... although i'm sure he could benchpress me with one arm, his trot reminds me of the stay-puff marshmallow man.

by leeac on Mar 27, 2008 5:42 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah, well
perhaps I exaggerate.

by alec on Mar 27, 2008 5:50 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We're spoiled with Pippen and Jordan
I don't know if we're ever going to get players as dedicated as these guys ever again.

I sure hope so.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 27, 2008 5:50 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Excellent point
It's hard for us to imagine life as an NBA pro.  Easy to say "for $12 mil a year, he better bust his ass", but I'd imagine that there's a lot to get jaded about.  And once market conditions give you a max contract, there's very little reason to play your best (absorb a beating) unless you fall into a winning environment.  And this team is a totally dysfunctional family this year, and it's bringing out the worst in most of them.  So we got rid of one semi-retired fat cat for another.  What I don't get is why he plays.  We didn't have the horses to sit a center; we have SG's coming out of our ears.

by California Al on Mar 27, 2008 12:44 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not to mention with Hughes,
he isn't the Bulls own big free agent mistake.  It's pretty widely acknoweldged, from what I've read, that taking back Hughes was not something the Bulls wanted at the time of the trade but something they had to do to move the other pieces around.  I can see a little "saving face" issue with feeling pressure to have the big dollar acquisition on the court, but that shouldn't be there at all with Larry.
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 27, 2008 1:19 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In my mind
Thabo has earned his starting spot back. But the only problem is then you have BG and Hughes coming off the bench and sometimes playing together and that's not good.

by sue369 on Mar 27, 2008 9:47 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the one positive part of the Boylan era
was that he unearthed Thabo. And then he manages to even screw that up.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 9:55 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That, and he's awakened
Kirk's latent leadership skills.  :Gag:

by alec on Mar 27, 2008 10:01 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And don't forget how he
made the diminutive Aaron Gray someone you can see!
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 27, 2008 10:17 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"Unearthed"
More like stumbled over. JimBozo the Clown

by Bass on Mar 27, 2008 10:05 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he only unearthed him
because he was the only healthy guard we had!
"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Mar 27, 2008 10:10 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Actually he started
playing Thabo more and more and when Du went down with an injury Thabo moved into the starting spot. Skiles had Thabo buried so Boylan did give him a chance to prove himself and Thabo took advantage of it.

by sue369 on Mar 27, 2008 11:15 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

not really
looking at the game logs, the first few games under boylan, he only got like 5 minutes (including a dnp but that might have been due the abdominal strain).  had a couple 13 minute outings, then 26 in the game before kirk was injured.  when kirk was injured, thabo got 30, 27, and 28 in the three games. it was only then he really solidified himself and BG was injured shortly after (2 games where both kirk and ben where playing).  and he's been in the rotation ever since.

he only really had that one 26 minute game, and given tt's jerking around, it could easily have been a one time thing if kirk hadn't been injured in that game immediately following it.

"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Mar 27, 2008 12:06 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Considering he
was getting almost 0 minutes before Skiles was fired, 5, 13 or whatever is more than he had been getting. It was Boylan who put him in the games and gave him a chance. Thabo was smart enough to take advantage of those minutes.

by sue369 on Mar 27, 2008 1:29 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

again, not true
why don't you look at his player file on nba.com?

he did have 1 game where it says 0 min, but other than that, boylan did match his season low in minutes (2) on one of the occasions.  skiles played him only 2 minutes twice.  most nights he played at LEAST 5 minutes, hitting 14+ minutes 10 times, 20+ minutes 4 times.

"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Mar 27, 2008 1:34 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

to add
it was only once he began starting that he really took off.
"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Mar 27, 2008 1:35 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and
i know i sort of refuted my original point by saying he didn't get minutes before the injuries, but at the same time, his improvement really began with his starting role... which i assume has to do with his confidence level.  that even though he got the 14 minutes he was playing with zero confidence.

but now i was just refuting the point that boylan was really playing him any more than skiles was.

"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Mar 27, 2008 1:40 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was mostly going by
Dec. when Thabo was in Skiles dog house. I'm just using games in which all four guards played in.

In Dec. there were 12 games in which all four guards played in the same game. Thabo had 81 minutes in those 12 games for 6.75 min. average for those games.

In Jan. under Boylan there were 7 games in which all four guards played in the same game. Thabo had 97 minutes in those 7 games for 13.8 min. average for those games.

I guess we disagree on when he gained his confidence.

by sue369 on Mar 27, 2008 3:18 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he didn't
score more than 10 points in a game until his 2nd start.

and he still had quite a few 0 pters in there (4, 5 if you count the Myers interim game) in his first games after skiles.  4/5 if you don't count the spurs game, 5/6 if you do.  even the game where he played 26 minutes he only scored 2 pts.  next game 9, next 17.  that 9 had matched his season high back in november.  his other stats (assists, rebounds) weren't better than anything he had done all season, either.  no confidence until his 17 pt/6 reb game in his 2nd start.  followed that up with 9/8, and then a double double with 12 pts 13 rebounds.

his minutes may have increased slightly in his dec vs initial boylan games, but his stats didn't until he got into the starting lineup.  confidence?  he hadn't taken more than 5 shots since november before, when? his 2nd start, the 17 point game.  seems like that's when he gained his confidence, to me.

"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Mar 27, 2008 3:44 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I totally agree with you, Sue :)
Start Kirk and Thabo!

And I have a solution for the problem this creates... See we Duh have a guard on the bench who's a PG. Little used... Can't remember his name, though...

Why not use him and alternate Hughes and BG at SG (See, I'm being nice. I could've said bury BG. :) )

by Bass on Mar 27, 2008 10:15 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As much as I hate Boylan
Like everyone else here . . .

I'll defend him on this one point.

I think he would actually like to start Thabo with Kirk but you have to factor in Thabo's injury and they already have said they would like to limit his minutes for the rest of the season.

If that indeed is the case, Thabo not starting should be justified

by Option27 on Mar 27, 2008 10:30 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think they could still start him
if for nothing else than to establish a pecking order, while also limiting his minutes.

by alec on Mar 27, 2008 10:37 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You do have a point...
But this is BOYLAN we're talking about, so I'm not going to give him that much credit. How many minutes has Deng been playing right after injury when he should be eased in? Or is this just like earning your PT and starting spot? (Just applies to some players)

Sorry, don't buy it :)

by Bass on Mar 27, 2008 10:54 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why not buy out Hughes?
Why don't the Bulls just buy out Hughes next year?  Unless Tim Floyd makes a return, the next Bulls' coach should be able to see that Hughes has no spot in the rotation.  I know there was some thinking that Hughes was insurance in case BG decides to leave, but I'd rather have Shannon Brown in that role if BG leaves.  Brown can definitely shoot at least 40%, and he's not afraid to take it to the hole.

by shoryuken on Mar 27, 2008 10:10 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You'll have to ask Jerry Reinsdorf about that...
It only makes basketball sense. Doesn't make his wallet any fatter.

by Bass on Mar 27, 2008 10:18 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It doesn't make basketball sense to buy him out
Hughes is a sunk cost.
  1. One option is to buy out Hughes and pay him $26M to stay home.  Since he's not playing, how do you fill those minutes?  I'd argue you probably need to re-sign Ben Gordon then.  I'd even argue Hughes is 80% the player, on the whole, that Ben is.  If I had to win a game, I'd want Ben.  But then you're paying him probably a minimum of $16-17M, and perhaps more over the same period.  So you get a cost of $42M and a slightly better player on the court.
  2. A second option is to continue to play Hughes and hope you can trade Ben Gordon for something.  Let's say you can get a late lottery or mid first round pick for him.  Some folks will grown I spose, but there's plenty to like if you use that pick wisely.  Every year there's a Thad Young, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, or Tayshaun Prince sort of guy around.  So you end up paying $2M or so to get a guy like that.  And while that guy is coming around, yes, you've lost Gordon, but Hughes is still 80% of what Gordon was and you've got to pay him anyway.
  3. You let Gordon walk for nothing, or he takes the QO.  This is a pretty damaging outcome because you don't really get any long-term replacement, except Hughes, who isn't very good to start with.
  4. You resign Gordon for whatever, and spend $42M.  OK, but if you're going to do that, you have a pretty hard time doing anything else for the next few years. How does that work with Thabo?  And how do the minutes go around? You also miss out on a way (combining him with Gordon) to move Nocioni off the books, since he's clearly overpaid too.  
My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Mar 27, 2008 11:17 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm not sure Gordon+Nocioni
gets you anything. If they don't want to re-sign Gordon it's because he's asking too much. What other team would take Gordon at his desired salary, PLUS the ludicrous Nocioni contract?

If anything, Thabo is the bait to move Noc, and Larry Hughes is 90% of Thabo.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 11:22 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you heretic!
Larry Hughes is 90% of Thabo.  That's sacrilegious at best and probably blasphemous, at least here on BaB.  Repent before it is too late!
Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 27, 2008 11:53 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

how about...
a Hughes/TT dump for an expiring contract?  there have to be at least a handful of teams that need a long shooting guard who can defend the two, and also a young big man with potential.  wait, isn't that what the bulls have needed for the past few years?...

by leeac on Mar 27, 2008 5:51 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Haha, that was so not the point.
It doesn't matter if it makes basketball sense or not. The bottom line is that the bottom line is the bottom line. Get it? :)

by Bass on Mar 27, 2008 12:00 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

'cause then you can't trade him?
salary filler can be useful.

He should be relegated to a Pargo role.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 10:28 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Salary filler can be useful
As useful as Cap-space? I'm sure you also think being able to trade Hughes is rather unlikely.

I say the primary reason they don't buy him out is Jerry being cheap.

by Bass on Mar 27, 2008 10:40 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

buyouts don't get you cap space
whatever's left of the salary stays on the cap. I don't see Hughes taking a big pay cut.

It's unlikely, but bad contacts get moved all the time.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 10:44 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

on Hughes
Defenders don't really challenge his shot.  They just come out and protect the dribble penetration.  If they're close enough, they'll put up a hand, but nobody is running out and leaping to deter Hughes' shot at all.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 27, 2008 3:36 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Looking ahead to the summer,
one of my main concerns is that Michael Heisley's L.A. trade and subsequent big market/small market rant didn't completely burn the Memphis/Chicago bridges.  

They still seem to me to be the most natural trading partner for the Bulls.  A little shuffling of their point guard bottleneck with our overabundance of shooting guards would seem to result in better balance for both clubs.  

I'd take any one of their three in exchange for anyone but Thabo from the Bulls.

by alec on Mar 27, 2008 10:35 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

or just trade Thabo
He doesn't have much of a ceiling, is cheap, and Memphis isn't going to trade Conley.
Chris Webber is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 27, 2008 10:38 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

along those lines
Let's trade all of our decent cheap players so we can be like the Knicks

by Parrotman on Mar 27, 2008 10:41 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and along those lines
since we're in cherry-pick stat mode today...

'stud' Thabo turns over the ball more than 'BBIQ -100 LOL' Tyrus Thomas.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 10:48 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and that's per posession used
which accounts for the fact that Thabo handles the ball more.

(you all should've assumed that, btw)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 10:51 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well
I don't necessarily agree with Thabo being the only player worth keeping...but I do agree Thabo is our best guard right now

by Parrotman on Mar 27, 2008 11:04 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

based on what?
a higher PER than Chris Duhon?
Chris Webber is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 27, 2008 11:06 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

based on the simple fact
that we play better as a team when he's on the court?  This is also backed up statistically?  He's also our best defensive guard?  He doesn't force stupid jumpers like our other guards?  He finishes better inside than all of our other guards and he sets up players for a higher percentage shot or only takes one in the flow of the offense usually.  Take your pick

by Parrotman on Mar 27, 2008 11:15 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he's played 1100 minutes
in a lousy season. While he's been a boost, plus-minus rating, and adjusted doesn't take much to show crazy results. I'm not sure why you keep using net, because it doesn't show much on it's own.

Hinrich and Gordon both have a better plus-minus track record, and their box score stats blow away Thabo in down years. Hinrich has a better inside eFG% too.

Chris Webber is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 27, 2008 11:44 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That addresses
One of my reasons...although it still doesn't address it that well.  I watch the games and this stat just supports what I've been watching.  Hinrich is actually doing well in this stat this year.  Gordon has done absolutely terrible this year although in seasons past he's done well.  The Bulls as a team have done absolutely terrible this season...so it's only natural to realize that our key players from seasons past aren't performing up to par.  I think this is Gordon's worst season as a Bull and Thabo is definitely playing better than him right now.

Box score stats are nice to look at..but they don't take into account defense or intangibles.  Kirk can get a lot of assists and people will look at the box score and think Kirk has great court vision or something.  In reality, there was a sequence where Noah established post position.  Kirk would ignore him and start dribbling around the perimeter.  Noah comes in to set a screen for Hinrich and rolls to the basket.  Hinrich ignores him again.  Then Noah's man leaves him to double Hinrich.  Noah is wide open under the basket.  Hinrich ignores him for the third straight time and passes it around the perimeter.  It kills me to see that.

by Parrotman on Mar 27, 2008 12:33 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm glad you're the arbiter
of all things statty. Cherry-picking plus-minus, ignoring Sefolosha's below league average offensive production, etc. You could blog!
Chris Webber is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 27, 2008 12:45 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

more succinctly
You're pitting 1100 minutes of net plus-minus against 4 and 5 year careers (Larry Hughes' total games played probably adds up to 3 seasons).

Sefolosha doesn't even stand out using plus-minus metrics. He's nothing special.

Chris Webber is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 27, 2008 12:55 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so let me get this straight
Guys who are doing terrible in +/- this season should get a pass because they used to do well before?  I guess this whole Bulls team should get a pass since they were a playoff caliber team before.  This was just an off year for everyone so if we just bring in the same guys and do it all over again next year we'll be much better right?

by Parrotman on Mar 27, 2008 1:15 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ya know...
pretty much :).

They will be better than last year. But they're still not good enough. The answer is getting updgrades not letting the good players go.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 1:27 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

did I say that?
I was addressing poor use of a stat. I'm not even sure what you mean by "pass." It's just dumb to ignore entire careers when no one is old or injured enough to make them irrelevant.
Chris Webber is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 27, 2008 1:30 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So..
It's poor use of a stat to evaluate it this year.  What's the magical cut off point to evaluate it then?  If these same guys do poorly again in this stat next year would that be enough for you?  Do we need to take the stats from their whole careers and add it up with the two most recent years and average it out to determine the player they are?

by Parrotman on Mar 27, 2008 1:41 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ahem
I've re-read some comments, and I'm not even sure what stat you're talking about. I confused you with Bass. Apologies. I still disagree with your dumb Sefolosha conclusion, and the irrational things you typed following it.
Chris Webber is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 27, 2008 1:53 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lol
so now you don't even know what stat I'm talking about and my conclusion is dumb and irrational.  Please explain to me why then

by Parrotman on Mar 27, 2008 2:06 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

plus-minus
I thought you were using net per 100, but Bass was, and you were never clear about it.
Chris Webber is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 27, 2008 2:10 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well
the same guys who are doing well in net per 100 are the same guys doing well in +/-.  So in the end, it really doesn't matter.  Yet, somehow it's irrational to cast judgement over a season's worth of stats.  So again, when is the magical cut off point to take these stats seriously?

by Parrotman on Mar 27, 2008 2:18 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

here's your problem
I don't know what you mean by plus-minus. Raw? Net per 100? Rating? Adjusted?
Chris Webber is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 27, 2008 2:57 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I usually look at
oncourt/offcourt numbers.  These are derived from points per 100 possessions.  So if a season's worth of data isn't enough for you...if this carries over to next season...would that be enough for you?

by Parrotman on Mar 27, 2008 3:03 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it isn't a season's worth of data
Sefolosha hasn't played that much, and his on/off rating doesn't exactly shine. That's where other player's track records come in, as well as his inability to sniff league average offensive production.
Chris Webber is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 27, 2008 3:48 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yep
his on/off isn't that great...but to exaggerate and say he doesn't even sniff the league average on offense...I might as well exaggerate and say he should be up for consideration for 1st team all-defensive.  His value on defense outweighs his lack of individual offensive production for his whole career up to this point.  That's around 2000 minutes...which is apparently not enough for you to give him any credit.

by Parrotman on Mar 27, 2008 4:08 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

11.4 PER, 96 ORtg in 2007-08
15 is average every season, 107 is average this season. If his value on defense was so great, he'd likely have a positive adjusted plus-minus, and plus-minus rating. I'm not saying he's a lousy defender, but good perimeter defenders aren't all that valuable if they can't be efficient offensively.
Chris Webber is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 27, 2008 4:14 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think
PER is a reliable stat to judge how good of an offensive player you are.  So is it really safe to say that Joe Smith was our best offensive player before we traded him away?  Adjusted plus-minus?  So, Deron Williams and Chris Paul are actually hurting their team by playing?  Chris Paul having a negative adjusted plus-minus makes that whole formula (whatever it is) a complete joke.

by Parrotman on Mar 27, 2008 4:32 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So..
Joe Smith was our best offensive player and Chris Paul is hurting his team...and I'm being irrational? Give me a break

by Parrotman on Mar 27, 2008 6:10 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yes.
Chris Webber is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 27, 2008 6:50 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well
after reading your signature, I guess I shouldn't be surprised

by Parrotman on Mar 27, 2008 7:03 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you just don't get it, man
Chris Webber is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 27, 2008 7:22 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is probably off topic but...
wasnt joe smith our best offensive player when he was here....i mean the chris paul part is probably wrong, but i do believe joe smith was far more efficient then any of out other players in his short time here.
Kirk Hinrich. The FORMER Best White American Point Guard in the NBA, Will Soon be Traded :(

by piccolomair on Mar 28, 2008 12:59 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yep
Smith was having a career year. Too bad the Bulls couldn't take advantage of that. Paul's adjusted plus-minus is puzzling, but it doesn't mean adjusted plus-minus is worthless.
Chris Webber is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 28, 2008 7:50 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No way
Far more efficient?  The guy wasn't that dependable.  In fact, the Bulls scored more points per 100 possessions when he wasn't on the court.  The Chris Paul part is completely mind boggling since he statistically helps the Hornets much more than any other player on the roster.  Yet, he has a negative adjusted +-?  That would be about as bad as Michael Jordan in his prime getting a negative adjusted +- on the Bulls.

by Parrotman on Mar 29, 2008 1:01 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I dunno about the adjusted +/-
But in my "fav stat" he's +10,7 :)

(For those of you not paying attention, that is net +/- per 100 poss. The best stat to evaluate players as long as the PT is sufficiently high (albeit with a slight additional skewing for traded players.))

by Bass on Mar 29, 2008 4:23 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, like I'm the only one here
that likes Thabo.

But maybe hscs is right--maybe Thabo really does have a low ceiling.  So fine, trade him.  

I think the Bulls most glaring, desperate need is for an elite point guard...and if the Bulls can't get Rose or Augustin, I think Lowry might be the next closest available player with elite potential

by alec on Mar 27, 2008 11:05 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd be happy with either
Lowry or Crittenton, and I might even be willing to part with Thabo.  The problem I have with letting Thabo go is that he's by far and away the Bulls best back court athlete.

by alec on Mar 27, 2008 10:45 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

neither of them are PURE
and You're basically trading better players for worse ones.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 10:49 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

now that I re-read your original point
I should've just said: 'huh?'

Memphis isn't going to take on salary like Hinrich, Hughes, or Gordon.

So you're basically saying you want to deal Thabo for Lowry or Crittenton.

Which seems pretty lateral but whatever. I'd keep Thabo and make him the backup 3 for Deng after we finally pawn off the Bulls' Rasheed Wallace (without basketball skills or smarts) Nocioni.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 10:56 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Both Lowry and Crittenton
are far superior ball handlers to anyone on the Bulls.  What's not PURE (as you put it) about Lowry?  Isn't he pretty much the definition of "pure?"--pass first, super quick, gets anywhere he wants at will?

When he came out of Villanova, he could do everything except shoot, and I wasn't that enamored of him; but he seems to have put in a lot of work on his shot, and he's not at all bad anymore.  

by alec on Mar 27, 2008 10:57 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

who cares what they are
both are below average players, and haven't improved on their rookie years. Hinrich's career TOV% is lower than both as well.
Chris Webber is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 27, 2008 11:05 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

isnt
crittendon a rookie this year?
"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Mar 27, 2008 11:06 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah
I misread his b-ref page. His two teams are split like 2 separate seasons. There's still nothing to be impressed with.
Chris Webber is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 27, 2008 11:08 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Crittenton can improve
he's only 20.

But that's why I don't want him.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 11:09 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I guess
I didn't realize how little he's played too. There isn't anything shiny to pick out of his total production, but I'd have to actually watch him to see if he's the next Royal Ivey or not.
Chris Webber is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 27, 2008 11:16 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Bulls, after all,
ARE the youngest team in the league.  I don't see what's wrong with adding an age-cohort point guard who will mature along with the rest of the team.

by alec on Mar 27, 2008 11:16 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it's amazing that with all those skills
that he turns over the ball more and gets fewer assists than Kirk Hinrich this season, which is by far his worst season as a pro.

He's shorter, too!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 11:06 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't care about shortness
in a point guard.

If that were your criterion, you'd have to rule out Chris Paul.

by alec on Mar 27, 2008 11:09 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

do you care that he's not that good then?
That was all explained before saying 'plus he's short'. stick that up your criterion.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 11:11 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's a second year player
who was hurt his first year, then got stuck in a mix with Conley, the team's stated future at the position.  

I don't think he's had much of an opportunity yet.  But from what I've seen of him, I think he's going to be really good...easily better than anyone on the Bulls current roster.

by alec on Mar 27, 2008 11:20 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Alec
are you making a charge to take over the lead in the 'Alec' ratings?
Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 27, 2008 12:02 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

To paraphrase Larry Bird
The rest are just playing for second

by snley on Mar 27, 2008 12:06 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Point guard and post scoring,
IMO, are the team's weakest areas.  Maybe you see it differently.  If that's the case, tell me.  

In terms of pg's , you either draft one or trade for one--unless you think we already have one (Hinrich?) on the roster.  And if you can't get one of the couple coming out this year, where are you going to turn?  

The only other positive suggestion that's been mentioned here is by Sports2, when he suggested trading with Portland for Fernandez.

Hey, I'm just trying to open the floor for nominations.  I'll happily consider any name you bring forward.

by alec on Mar 27, 2008 12:51 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

there's one in Hinrich
and perhaps more importantly, the Bulls are paying him.

so find someone better. That's my positive suggestion.

Rudy Fernandez isn't even in the league, and I don't think Lowry is better.

Trade for Paul, Billups, Williams, Nash, Calderon, Davis, Parker, Harris

Not really available. TJ Ford may be, but there's a reason, and that's because he has a case of snappy neck.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 1:06 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

more like stuck
I still think Hinrich's better than half the PGs in the league, and a case for top-10. So unless you find someone better then yeah the Bulls are set.

They will have a roster spot at backup PG if they want to try someone unproven. I'm still kicking myself for not liking that trade rumor of "Nocioni for Nets garbage and Marcus Williams". But saying 'I'd deal anyone for a Grizzly and make them the full-time PG' isn't a good enough solution for me.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 1:31 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Then what do you focus on
to improve the team?  

Other than the obvious--a new coaching staff--are you saying the Bull's biggest need is a back-up point guard?  (I know you're not saying that.)  Where do we need a talent upgrade?

In your view, is this year simply an aberration?  Has our abysmal season been all about trade rumors and failed contract talks?        
 

by alec on Mar 27, 2008 1:50 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You need to broaden your perspective
The Bulls need to upgrade where ever possible.  It's difficult to speculate much at this point as to where those upgrades will occur since the off-season is so far away and no one really knows what will be available on the market.  My only guess would be that Paxson will probably let the rest of the NBA know that he's willing to discuss trade regarding any player on the squad.  I'm not saying that he's going to trade away everyone and completely remake the roster.  Just that he's probably going to be more willing to talk about the likes of Deng, Gordon, Hinrich, and Thomas.  If the Bulls can get a better PG, great.  If they can get a better PF, fantastic.  Without changes, except to the coaching staff of course, the team will probably bounce back next year anyways.  The biggest asset, and ultimate curse, to this team is there is no roster spot with a glaring weakness that by addressing it instantly turns the team into a contender.  The plain and simple fact is they are just not good enough overall and should take any potential upgrade they can find.  

by snley on Mar 27, 2008 2:30 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If I understand you correctly,
you're saying PF is the position most in need of an upgrade?  I appreciate that we don't know who from other teams will be on the market come summer.  All I'm trying to get at is, strictly based on our roster, what most needs to be addressed in the off-season?  

Norm Van Lier, for example, has said that, if he were coach, the first thing he'd change is the style of offense the team plays.  I liked the SI article CalAl showed us about the DDM offense.  Is our team too full of bad handling jump shooters to go that route?

These are the questions I'd like to hear your and Matt's, bullshooter's, hscs' (and many other knowledgeable folks here besides) thoughts about.  

What really needs to change?

by alec on Mar 27, 2008 4:15 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I dont think that is what snely was getting at
I think that pf things was just thrown in there, and the main point was that aside from the coaching staff there is no clear cut position that needs help. Any player at any position should always be traded if you can get an upgrade in that position.

If you think hinrich or the pg spot is the problem, then you should get someone who is proven better then hinrich, not someone who may be better or else you are going one step back. Same with every other position, gooden is good, but if Brand is available, then give up gooden and tyrus and get gooden. Ben Gordon is a great scorer, but if you can get gilbert arenas, then trade him.

Snely put it in good words, the biggest problem with the team is that it DOESNT have a position that really is weak, the players on the team are fairly good and no one player or position is bringing the rest of the team down. Sure trading hinrich for chris paul or D. Williams, or steve nash, or any other top 10 pg would help, but to trade for a player who sort-of maybe can be better then hinrich (based on a fans personal objective reasoning) is probably no where near the answer.

Consider the ben wallace trade, ben walllace was someone who wasnt doing anything, he was horrid, the clear cut problem on the bulls roster, the worst player we had (along with a.g.). What happened, the two got traded, sure we got hughes, but i like to see it this way, we traded wallace for gooden (a guy who is close to averaging a double double for us, vs a guy who couldnt jump in the double digits) and ag for hughes (a guy who really couldnt do anything, for a guy who can do alot even though its not always effective). THey were clear upgrades, right now there isnt alot of clear cut upgrades out there.

Kirk Hinrich. The FORMER Best White American Point Guard in the NBA, Will Soon be Traded :(

by piccolomair on Mar 27, 2008 5:00 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How friggin' dumb are you?
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 27, 2008 5:01 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Instructive
to see your typical post immediately following picc's.

by alec on Mar 27, 2008 5:09 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ty
why do you always have to insult people?

by sue369 on Mar 27, 2008 5:10 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't have to Sue.
I quit insulting people for a couple of weeks because everyone was so sensitive. I got tired of people whining when I told them they were dumb because they said Kirk Hinrich was the problem with this team. I had stopped for awhile.

Did you read what he responded to? snley made a long post that pretty well explained a logical position, and all dim-witted alec gets out of that snley thinks the most pressing need is PF? Why not PG, he almost mentioned that position once? snley did, however, mention about 3 or 4 times, in different language, that he thinks there is no glaring weakness on the team (except for the coaches), and that an upgrade to any position is welcome. And all alec gets is that snley wants to upgrade at PF?!?!

I was hoping he was just having a fun jab. You know, someone goes into a long-winded, well-put explanation, and just to rib him/her you say, "So what you're saying is..." and then get it completely wrong. I was hoping that's what it is. Apparently, I was wrong.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 27, 2008 7:35 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think this
horrible season has everyone on edge or maybe it's just me.

by sue369 on Mar 27, 2008 8:36 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well thats a relief
I thought your comment was directed towards me, and i couldnt figure out what i did wrong. I thought maybe indeed Alec was being sarcastic (he is a pretty smart guy so it makes more sense that he understood snelly's argument and was just being a smart jerk) and that ty was just calling me an idiot for going out of my way and trying to sort of explain what i thought was being said (is that confusing)...anyways im glad i wasnt in the wrong...or was i?
Kirk Hinrich. The FORMER Best White American Point Guard in the NBA, Will Soon be Traded :(

by piccolomair on Mar 28, 2008 12:57 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ha-ha
That is funny.

Tyger, of course, is free to believe that surface is all there is...or to assume the possibility of depth.  Should he choose the latter, he might discover that, especially when the appearance of surface-only is strongest, in truth it will almost never be the case.  

by alec on Mar 28, 2008 8:50 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If you look at the lists
even in a bad year Kirk has gotten into the top 15 in most categories for point guards.  The only guys I'd trade him for are Deron Williams, Chris Paul and maybe Calderon, but I haven't seen enough of his game to actually have an opinion on him.  All the rest of the guys are too far past 30 and make way more money.  And none of the young guys stand out.  Guys like Nash and Billups came on later in their careers so I still have high hopes for Kirk at 27.  I really think a new coach with a slightly different offensive philosophy and renewed commitment to team defense is all the bulls need.  And to do something with Hughes.
Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 27, 2008 8:38 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Matt,
It's like you don't even watch the tournament!  He's scrappy and has a Sweet 16 pedigree, man.  :P

The disillusionment has set in.

BAB Tyrus Love-Meter -- 5 - Worrying that he's never going to have a J like Reggie Miller's, only Oscar Robertson's.

by cubbybear on Mar 28, 2008 2:20 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Also, I love TJ Ford,
but if the Bulls are going to rule a guy out because he won't take a hereditary heart test, they're certainly not going to go for a guy who already has two broken necks on his resume.

by alec on Mar 27, 2008 1:14 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

TJ? might as well get Starbury
Ford is a selfish player who is a 2 guard in a high school cheerleader's body.  I remember watching the Raptors-Magic game earlier this month, where Ford didn't even let his teamates shoot the ball for the first 6 minutes of the 4th quarter in a close game.  You can see the mind boggling play by play at http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=280304019&period=4

TJ finished with respectable numbers, but his ridiculous turnovers cost the Raptors the game.  His selfish play has earned him a one way ticket out of Toronto this offseason.

As someone stated above, PG is a difficult position to upgrade.  Kirk doesn't have the greatest court vision, but any draft prospect (not named Paul or Deron) take at least 3 years to develop. I would say there are 6 pass-first PGs better than Hinrich right now (Paul, Deron, Nash Kidd, Billups, Miller, and Calderon). Conley, Lowry, Marcus Williams, etc will take time to develop.  The Bulls will have an easier time upgrading at the SG or SF positions.

by shoryuken on Mar 27, 2008 3:32 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dude! Thabo's the untouchable?
Seriously?
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 27, 2008 12:02 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why do you guys gave credit to Boylan?
He sucks. Period.
You say that he did a great job turning Thabo into a good player, but i totally disagree. I think Thabo it's playing great because he develop his skills, like the most second year players. Not because of Boylan. Ok, you can say that with skiles we didn't saw the best of thabo, but, maybe, just maybe, with other coach that not Boylan we could see the same thing about thabo. Boylan is so bad, that TT is all most the same player of the last year - besides now he can make some jump shots -, and Deng, BG and Hinrich are all playing worst...
I HATE BOYLAN... AND HUGHES

by bull83 on Mar 27, 2008 10:53 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Boylan
played Thabo only because we were short on guards because of injury.  Had that never happened Thabo would still be a quivery mess on the end of the bench.  Thabo always had his skills (just look at his summer play), he just had been jerked around by the coaching all year.  So Boylan doesn't get any credit besides being a warm body in a seat during Thabo's resurgence.

by cranscape on Mar 27, 2008 11:40 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's not entirely
true. Thabo was getting 0 minutes before Skiles was fired. Boylan did start playing Thabo before anyone was injured. Mind you they might have been minimal minutes but Thabo took advantage of those minutes and when they had injuries he stepped up. Had Boylan not put him in for however few minutes they were he would not be playing as well as he is now.

by sue369 on Mar 27, 2008 1:18 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wasn't
thinking about Skiles at all in my comment.  Token minutes with Boylan wouldn't have helped Thabo at all either.  If I remember right his jumper was extremely flat, he was getting frustration fouls, and sitting down for the rest of the game very fast.  He only started to get better when they had no one else to play and put him in for extended minutes and even started him for a good string of games.  His jump shot came back, his defense was smarter, he was getting rebounds, he was playing during key points of the game instead of being taken out...to me Boylan gets no credit for that.  There was no indication he would have put Thabo in had Gordon and Kirk and to some extent Duhon (bone bruise on his knee?) were in good health.  He might have played him 8-10 minutes here or there, granted more than the time Skiles gave him, but Thabo looked terrible during those minutes.

A big problem with our team is that there is no one really good enough to unquestionably claim minutes but no one so bad (besides Duhon and some trash from our recent trade) that should be taken out of the rotation.  We got a ton of mediocre players who all want 30 minutes a game and might do a little better if they got it.  As fans we can list the ones we'd rather be getting those minutes, but none to me stand out as people who should be getting those minutes if I were judging them be league standards. I like Thabo, but even at his best he is just one in a pack of so-so guys.

by cranscape on Mar 27, 2008 1:43 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I rather see...
... BG traded. Thabo is great, and with his long arms he can help the team in different positions. Even if Kabo or Wade - dreaming doesn't cost nothing - came to the Bulls, I think Thabo could easily play at 3... So, I wouldn't trade him.
Hey, Pax!!! Get rid of Hughes, or BG, or Noc, but not Thabo please...
I HATE BOYLAN... AND HUGHES

by bull83 on Mar 27, 2008 11:12 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You'd probably get more out
of this if you hit the "reply to this" button on the post you want to reply to... :)

(If it was intentional, rock on.)

by Bass on Mar 27, 2008 11:52 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thabo is great?!?!
My GOD. We've done some parallel universe/Sliders thing here. What the hell?!?!
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 27, 2008 12:10 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thank you for that reference, brings back memories
of Saturday nights in junior high.  I'd completely forgotten that show ever existed.

by snley on Mar 27, 2008 12:15 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lol
It really sucked after the first or second season.  I think many were trying to forget it. So thanks for dredging it up, folks.  

by cranscape on Mar 27, 2008 12:22 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

sign up for netflix
you can have a geeky, bad sci-fi orgy by watching it in your browser. Every season!
Chris Webber is the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 27, 2008 12:24 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I have netflix
but my computer is too stupid to run the streaming shows from their website.  Right now I am netflixing Dead Like Me.  My tastes in shows have changed a bit since jr high.  :)  

by cranscape on Mar 27, 2008 1:45 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wanted to say Kobe....
... sorry
I HATE BOYLAN... AND HUGHES

by bull83 on Mar 27, 2008 11:13 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

anyone notice Sam's farewell mailbag today
where he mentioned that Dirk might be for the taking this summer if the Mavs don't make the playoffs? (sorry, don't know how to link yet)

That could be an opportunity, though I'm not sure we have anything that would entice Cuban. Maybe TT, BG (as a jason terry protege) noce and draft picks...

by kig on Mar 27, 2008 11:21 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

dirk?
really dont think hes the answer. if he couldnt do anything with numerous good players on dallas for the past what like 6 or 7 years. he will be worth nothing to the organization.

by Yibs on Mar 27, 2008 11:43 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I guess you could always
make the Western Conference excuse.  The Mavs have been battling the best teams during their run and get to wear themselves down just to get good positioning in the playoffs.  They do tend to choke when it counts, Dirk included, but choking in the West is not so far off winning in the East these days.

by cranscape on Mar 27, 2008 12:20 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Couldn't do anything??!
they did choke last year, but c'mon, if d wade didn't get MJ treatment in the finals Dirk would have a championship ring.  And what about little sarge's coaching?  Last yr's playoff choke against GS cannot be totally pinned on Dirk like it is - how about a freakin coaching adjustment?! When the offense is give to Dirk at the high post and watch, and the other team figures out how to stop that, you try something else.  They didn't and Dirk took the fall.  Regardless, he's a guaranteed 20pts a night that will draw double teams and seems to not be a prima donna.

If Sam isn't just trying to get Cuban's head to finally explode, we should go hard after Dirk and retool around him, thabo, noah and maybe deng, go after a good young point that can penetrate (like lowry).  Oh, and actually hire a good coach.    

by kig on Mar 27, 2008 12:37 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sam's NCAA bracket entry for the
Tony Kornheiser radio show has him ID'ed as "Former Chicago Tribune NBA writer."  He ripped Zell on the show a few days before his buyout was announced.  I have to say, knowing that he would soon be leaving the company, I'm surprised how reserved he was.  

by snley on Mar 27, 2008 12:04 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sorry, was actually referring to his appearance
on the Tony Kornheiser Show just before the buyout was announced.  I should have been more clear.  He makes a weekly appearance on the show but rarely provides anything of significance.

by snley on Mar 27, 2008 12:10 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I taped the game Saturday
(I was out of town) and just watched the half hour intro show.  Sam was on there, and he said he was leaving  because Sam Zell wanted to be able to walk on any floor of the Tribune company and when someone said Sam, it could only refer to him.

A nice way to get in a dig.

by KT on Mar 27, 2008 12:21 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Smith is going on the Comcast payroll
Will Smith still appear on "Chicago Tribune Live"?  Mmm, perhaps.

Sam Smith also said he wasn't ONLY working for Comcast.  Apparently he has another gig going for him.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 27, 2008 3:38 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lol
Will Smith?  Took me a second to make sure Will Smith wasn't coming to Comcast.  They don't seem to have a lot of requirements after all.  :)

by cranscape on Mar 27, 2008 3:55 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

At least he's in shape,
which is more than I can say about supposed pro athlete Larry Hughes.

by alec on Mar 27, 2008 4:16 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

from a Sixers fan's perspective
one thing I noticed, you guys came after a timeout with stupid turnovers... it happened like 3 times at least

either they don't listen to the coach or they are puposely playing "against" him

either way, it's THE PLAYERS looking stupid more than the coach

maybe this was already said before but I'm too lazy to read all the previous 178 comments, sorry

I hope better days will come for the Bulls, I'm enjoying my Sixers finally !!

by Ricky Sixers4guidos on Mar 27, 2008 6:31 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks for the insight
I like it when fans get together to talk about their teams.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 27, 2008 6:37 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That happens quite alot
Its usually not as polite or as pleasant as this one went. If you dont believe me just check the archives for when we played the pistons last year....man...crazy shtuff.
Kirk Hinrich. The FORMER Best White American Point Guard in the NBA, Will Soon be Traded :(

by piccolomair on Mar 28, 2008 12:53 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I engaged some Nuggets fans
after we beat them scoring 135 points.  I told them why it is I think the Nuggets cannot win the way they are currently tooled.  Maybe 5 people understood and the other 20 thought I was hitting on their mothers.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 28, 2008 9:13 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Indeed
Just go to youtube, look up a player, no matter how mediocre, and for some reason there will be a guy defending him and a guy just going off on him, it gets to the point of ridiculous. I mean if you go to any kirk hinrich video theres always this did with the name of "force" who has commented and argued on every single one of his vids. go check out a kobe video and theres a profane debate going on about kobe vs jordan, and dont bother stepping into a jordan highlight video to see part two of such fights. Its part of the reason stats become annoying in sports, guys who know them tend to consider themselves the gods of sports and they dont let you favor another guy just cuz he is "statistically inferior" to another player. Sorry, that was a bit of a rant.
Kirk Hinrich. The FORMER Best White American Point Guard in the NBA, Will Soon be Traded :(

by piccolomair on Mar 28, 2008 10:45 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Anyone think we could trade Tyrus for Bogut?
Tyrus and change of course thanks to his immense playing time value.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 27, 2008 6:34 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think there's any way
the Bucks would go for that.  Even if it weren't a bad trade (from their perspective), they are already having difficulty figuring out what to do with their glut at PF.

by alec on Mar 27, 2008 6:42 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd rather trade Noah for Bogut
That'd be a nice low post option, and Tyrus is too good to trade for Bogut, I think.
BAB Tyrus Love-Meter -- 5 - Worrying that he's never going to have a J like Reggie Miller's, only Oscar Robertson's.

by cubbybear on Mar 27, 2008 7:55 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah
but mainly because there are a couple threads that have gone on so long replies look like e.e. cummings poetry there on the right.

by cranscape on Mar 28, 2008 9:20 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There was a style of poetry
that spun off from the French "nouveau roman" in the 1950's (bullshooter, you may be interested--check out Alain Robbe-Grillet) where they tried to make the poetry as it appeared on the page "look like" the sentiment the author was attempting to express.  A bit esoteric, I admit...but the Parrotman/hscs debate brings it to mind.  

by alec on Mar 28, 2008 9:32 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Alain Robbe-Grillet ??
Is also known for his highly sado-masochistic films and fiction.  Appropriate for this site, non, mon ami?  For who but the most committed masochist could continue to watch this team?  Next thing you know, they'll be hanging leather curtains in the United Center, and passing out whips and face-masks at the game.  Might make for more interesting viewing than the manure they've been shoveling this season.

by Cannoli on Mar 28, 2008 2:18 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yikes!
Maybe I have some introspection to get caught up on.

I used to read him as a more-or-less literary counterpart to Philip Glass...page after page, chapters, even, of description about a fly crawling down a curtain.  (Hence the connection to the Parrotman/hscs discussion creeping one word at a time down the right-hand margin.)

by alec on Mar 28, 2008 2:33 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No Problem
That's OK Alec, your secret is safe with me;)  Check out Grove Press circa 1963-68 if you have an interest in avant-garde (that is, post Beat era) literature of time.  Specifically, the poet Diane di Prima might be of interest to you.

by Cannoli on Mar 29, 2008 10:49 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Come blog with us Sam Smith
Where Derrick Rose, Scott Skiles, and e.e. cummings references happen.

An open conversation about the Bulls is light years ahead of a single column.

I need to mess around with the comment code from the website Shacknews.com.  I think their comments section is among the best formats on the Internet.  Wikipedia has a primer if you're interested.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 28, 2008 10:51 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

sb nation has a whole new internetface
I think that's what it's called, and it appears to be easier on the eye-orbs. Thus ends my free endorsement.
Chris Webber is still the lowpost answer!

by hscs on Mar 28, 2008 10:56 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd test drive the new system
if I only cared about baseball.  I may have to being the 100 year anniversary for the Cubs and the Bulls ever so slightly missing their projections for this season.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 28, 2008 11:00 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just go over
to BCB and try it. You will love it. Especially the z function.

by sue369 on Mar 28, 2008 12:26 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what's the z function?
Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 28, 2008 1:05 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

nevermind i found it
that's neat, but you can do the same thing here in firefox if you do a search for "[new".  That's my secret for staying on top of all the knuckle draggers and mouth breathers three threads at a time.  ;-)
Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 28, 2008 1:10 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

exactly
what i do.
"Joakim Noah looks like a young Kimberly Williams." - my mom

by Jaina on Mar 28, 2008 1:40 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't
use firefox. I'll just wait for BAB to get the upgrade.

by sue369 on Mar 28, 2008 1:52 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that's key to using the site
although, ironically, you putting that string in a comment screws up my find :)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 28, 2008 2:22 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I know
:-p
Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 28, 2008 2:29 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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