3-Guard Lineup
[ed. note: from the diaries. Kudos to Sam Smith for being the first beat coverage that made the connection between small lineups and getting pounded in 4th quarters. Looks like it happened again Saturday, a game I happily missed. -Matt]
The Tribune has an article here about the pathetic state of the bulls.
One sentence that really got me was this:
With the Bulls then playing three guards -- a tactic former coach Scott Skiles frequently employed effectively down the stretch and for which he was applauded -- the Pacers grabbed three straight offensive rebounds with the Bulls trying to come from behind.Whoever applauded Skiles for the 3-guard lineup? I've hated it from day 1. And basically for the same reason they name - lacking in rebounding. Not to mention putting short people on much taller people (Kirk on Tracy McGrady still makes me shudder) and being totally outmatched playing defense.
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Duhon
but he stop short of saying "without a brain"
by exult463 on
Mar 23, 2008 10:35 PM CDT
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Didnt skiles use 3 guard lineup
Though its harder to get rebounds using this lineup, the perimeter defenders can keep the other team from shooting threes (which cut down leads and boost morale at a very high rate) and force them to drive inside. So long as no one fouls, this should slow the advance of the other team, though not stop it. At the same time, the three guards make for offense from the perimeter (four corners play?) which can help increase leads.
In other words, the other team gets a 2, we get a 3, the other team gets another 2, we get another 3...we might not hit all of our threes, but the other team wont get any 3s for themselves so though it doesnt completely eliminate the threat of a comeback, it does a good job of slowing any offense charge the other team could have.
OF course skiles was the kind of guy who wouldnt hesitate to call timeout and pull some players when the players werent executing. Plus had terrific inbound plays. Boylan, is an idiot.
by piccolomair on
Mar 23, 2008 11:15 PM CDT
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I never really found it to be that effective
by Parrotman on
Mar 24, 2008 8:45 AM CDT
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Indeed
by piccolomair on
Mar 24, 2008 1:25 PM CDT
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the other problem
if the 3 guard lineup has either sefolosha or hughes (or both) it's not that bad (in boylan's defense, because iirc hughes was the 3rd guard), but i've noticed it blowing games more than helping.
by Jaina on
Mar 24, 2008 1:31 PM CDT
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I was considering the time
Defensively this would also be good, Hinrich and Thabo are our best two perimeter defenders, and gordon though is knocked for his defense, stil can be an able defender, and offer help (hes quick). Noch can be annoying on defense (which is good) and noah is intense enough to not let anything go easy in the paint.
Hypothetically it seems pretty good huh, problem is the bulls would have to play like they did last year..
by piccolomair on
Mar 24, 2008 1:44 PM CDT
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true too
but yes. i think all hope is lost for this season, anyways...
by Jaina on
Mar 24, 2008 1:52 PM CDT
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yea
Then you have noch who can give you boards and "floor spacing", boylan has alot more options then skiles did and i dont think he sees it. Thats stupid.
I wouldnt use hughes for a 3 guard lineup by the way, sure he gives u defense, but him and ben gordon are more trigger happy. And having those two with kirk hinrich, you can see the chemistry disapear mainly cuz hughes has developed a habit of bringing the ball up and being trigger happy. Yet boylan has gone to that 3 guard more then with thabo hinrich and gordon.
by piccolomair on
Mar 24, 2008 1:58 PM CDT
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most often
by Jaina on
Mar 24, 2008 9:07 AM CDT
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Oh
by piccolomair on
Mar 24, 2008 1:34 PM CDT
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yeah
by Jaina on
Mar 24, 2008 1:38 PM CDT
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Agreed
The only good i think boylan did was save thabo from self destruction, and i am glad for that. But i dont understand anything he does or say, and he throws lineups in there that my little brother would use in 2k8 only because those are his favorite players. Skiles was always talking to himself eyeing the situation calling timeouts and usually they had some affect. Boylan calls time outs and takes out the players that are doing something effective. Sorry..this turned into a "boylan sucks" rant.
by piccolomair on
Mar 24, 2008 1:52 PM CDT
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To some extent, this
Yet weren't they also known for their offensive rebounding?
Their success in the past 3 seasons has shown that this can work, but only if everyone buys in and puts in the effort and blah blah blah (this has been repeated so much that it sounds like the pledge of allegiance must sound to a 2nd grader).
by bullhockey on
Mar 24, 2008 11:15 AM CDT
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I'm actually glad
So let's continue the losses.
This is the most disappointing Bulls season in my lifetime, I want it to end now.
by majoyenrac on
Mar 24, 2008 8:36 AM CDT
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It just seems to get worse
by NBA Observer on
Mar 24, 2008 8:45 AM CDT
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It's not the 3 guards, it's the 1 big man
The problem has been his use of one-big-man lineups, which are currently the 3rd, 4th, and 9th most frequent lineups Gooden has played in since the trade. There are some ugly lineups on that page. (And why is Boylan against a Hinrich-[Guard]-Nocioni-Gooden-[Bigman] lineup? Seems like a natural play...)
by YaoPau on
Mar 24, 2008 12:13 PM CDT
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Your One big stats
Unfortunately, the Bulls brass seem to focus more on his occasional lapses then on his sometimes brilliant defensive skills.
by Tyrusmancrush on
Mar 24, 2008 12:47 PM CDT
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I've never seen Gooden used so much as a C
by Ozzie Montana on
Mar 24, 2008 12:56 PM CDT
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Gooden isn't an idiot
by cranscape on
Mar 24, 2008 1:22 PM CDT
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I agree Tyrus should be playing more center, but
Gooden's problem on defense is the same as Noah's problem - they're both mediocre help defenders. One on one though, I kinda like how Gooden defends.
by YaoPau on
Mar 24, 2008 1:29 PM CDT
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In his regular position I don't
by cranscape on
Mar 24, 2008 3:09 PM CDT
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I'll admit that the 3-guard wasn't the most
For instance, It helped a little bit in this game. It's just that some of you guys read Matt's thoughts and take it as your own.
by NittanyBull on
Mar 24, 2008 2:41 PM CDT
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i hated
also, that game... kirk didn't miss a shot in the 4th for 11 pts. gordon scored 12 in the 4th. duhon missed his only shot, predictably (he did have more rebounds in the quarter than wallace did, however). but how usual it is that those two are going to combine for 23 pts in a quarter?
plus we were playing the heat, who suck. and i certainly wasn't saying the 3 guard lineup sucks all the time. that was probably one of the few instances where skiles could get away with it, because their dominant player (wade) is a 2, and their 3s (kapono/posey?) aren't that great.
by Jaina on
Mar 24, 2008 2:58 PM CDT
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Didn't you just describe what happens
And I'm sorry if you thought my post was directed towards you, because it wasn't. I believe it when you say that you never liked it(and rightfully so, it sucked[and still sucks] 90% of the time).
That was Game 3 of the playoffs, and it had me peeing my pants from the excitement, even if it was the "White Hot" Heat.
by NittanyBull on
Mar 24, 2008 5:55 PM CDT
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well yes
but i think my point with that reasoning is to show how much stuff has to go right for it to actually be effective. it can be ok if we're actually shooting well, and against a lineup that won't get destroyed by it (like using it in my example above where hinrich had to guard mcgrady). especially with how poorly we've shot over this season, i do not want to see it. ever. and my other point was that duhon didn't really contribute much, so we could have easily had another bigger player in there.
it's not that bad if the third guard is thabo, but when it was duhon, gordon, and hinrich, it made my eyes want to bleed.
by Jaina on
Mar 24, 2008 6:07 PM CDT
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Jerry Reinsdorf
by exult463 on
Mar 24, 2008 4:37 PM CDT
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Stepping Down
by Cannoli on
Mar 24, 2008 7:12 PM CDT
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Like everything else about this bulls team
(I promise I'll only say this a few more times....)
by bullshooter on
Mar 24, 2008 10:18 PM CDT
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Say it Again Bullshooter
This coaching staff have minds like a steel trap.....always closed.
Either their incompetence is beyond measure or they never watch their own game tapes. Nothing that makes sense seems to penetrate these boobs unlike the Bulls opponents who penetrate at will against their matador defenses, especially when they go small.
by Tyrusmancrush on
Mar 24, 2008 11:44 PM CDT
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