Tanking: the Lottery Bound Horribulls

by hongydraw on Mar 20, 2008 7:28 PM CDT

I dont want to think the Bulls are tanking. It doesnt make sense. But can they really win ANY close/possible-come-back games if these crappy rotations happen keep happening day in and day out? The only explenation for tanking (and possibly the random injuries that keep happening to Deng and Gordon) is that Paxson knows that he wont be bringing Deng and Gordon back.

History shows that PAXSON DOES NOT BEND ON HIS DEALS, and maybe this holds true to the deals Deng and Gordon turned down. So he has his coach tank, just like he did the year before Deng and Gordon arrived. At the end of the year, he ends up doing long negotiations, until a very unexpected trade happens.

Much like the Curry trade, he sends Deng someplace, gets a lotter pick, and a future unprotected pick or something. He does the same with Gordon.

The Bulls now have 3 lottery picks, which he uses to replace Gordon and Deng, add a low post scorer, and keep the Bulls way under the cap, all while retaining Hinrich, Nocioni, Thomas, Gooden, Hughes, Sefolosha, Gray, Duhon, and Noah.

The Bulls, next year, start Hinrich, Noah, Gooden, and the replacements to Deng and Gordon, make another powerful march into the playoffs on hardwork and defense, this time though the newcommers have veteran guys with them, and are able get to the 2nd round and maybe the conference finals.

The year after that, the teams the Bulls traded with each give them another lottery pick, and the Bulls enter the season with a roster of Hinrich, Nocioni, Gooden, Sefolosha, Thomas, Noah, Duhon, Hughes, Gooden and 5 new lottery picks (2 each from the deng/gordon trades, and the Bulls own from this year).

With possibly the deepest team in NBA history, the Bulls plow through the Eastern conference, and make it to the NBA Finals, winning a championship for the first time ever in the post Jordan/Pippen era.

Larry Hughes, after playing well in the Finals and hitting randomly big shots off the bench retires as a fan favorite and proud Chicago Bull. The money that comes off the books of Larry's gigantic contract is used to sign a center to finally replace the loss of Ben Wallace.

John Paxson looks like a genious, just like he did with the Curry trade.

Honestly, after seeing what Scott Skiles, and now Jim Boylan continue to do, I have several times tried to find an exlenation that had some logic and I cant. All I can see is that the Bulls could be tanking. Yesterday it was like Boylan TRIED to blow the game (see Matt's diary).

And this is a bucnh of crap. This team could have gotten to the Finals if there was any confidence for or from anybody at the beginning of the year. Now...well...Lotter Bound Horribulls.

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there's

a ton of tanking going on right now in the league in general, and it doesn't look like anyone's really trying to hide it. except for the bulls, that is. we try to cover up our tanking by claiming to be in the running for a playoff spot. i believe earning a playoff spot would be the ONLY thing that guarantees boylan gets fired...

by leeac on Mar 20, 2008 7:40 PM CDT 0 recs

I don't think

there is any chance in hell that Duhon will be in a Bulls uniform next season.

by sue369 on Mar 20, 2008 7:46 PM CDT 0 recs

I really like your concept

But it reminds me of Paxson43's (i hope i got his sign-in-name right) story from the future. If it doesnt happen the way you say it, then i might be in tears next season. I mean if it turns out that paxson wasnt purposely tanking, or wasnt thinking of deals, or rather like often, his deals fail to fall through. I dont know if there are good replacements yet for either gordon or deng (okay replacements for gordon are there, namely this guy named gordon who is ben gordon but supposedly better?) but the part about newcomers who work hard and are passionate led by veterans would be sort of nice. Just bring back skiles too, he would whip this sorry team into shape.

Kirk Hinrich. The FORMER Best White American Point Guard in the NBA, Will Soon be Traded :(

by piccolomair on Mar 20, 2008 10:32 PM CDT 0 recs

honeydraw

this makes a lot of sense. But, I wouldn't give brownie points to Paxson for tanking because it lacks any real strategy. Also it will blow up in his face just about like everything else.

I think Pax will step down this summer. How much pressure can a man take?

I'm really sorry for him that it had to come to this, but actually he had plenty of opportunities to make things better.

by exult463 on Mar 20, 2008 10:38 PM CDT 0 recs

I apologize

I know alot of people share a thought like yours, but i still dont understand. Indeed, Pax was the one that brought this group together, and so, he should have some fault. Yet, how was anyone to know how things would play out. Yes Aldridge should have been retained, yes Instead getting tryus and thabo we probably should have just taken Roy, yes ben wallace was a mistake, yes not pulling the trigger on the gasol or kobe deal (was there a deal) was a horrid error, but we can only say that now in hindsight.

When Each of these events happened, save the kobe deal (which maybe didnt happen), we all exclaimed "IN PAX WE TRUST". Just one season ago, we were pushing for him to get executive of the year. Yes, Paxson is far to nice for his own good, i mean, cmon he isnt blowing up at boylan in front of the press, HOW DARE HE!!!!

But he hasnt quit working, i mean we got rid of Wallace for pieces far better. And sure everyone loves a good duhon joke, but it was a good move not to give duhon up in that trade (not saying we should retain duhon, but having duhon couldve helped the cavs if thats where he ended up, and ultimately i still think we got the better end of the three teams) Ag is gone also, and Joe smith, though a solid player, just had to go so we could see more tyrus.

Ah tyrus...Boylan continues not to play him, and Paxson does nothing, we think its incompetence, but i think its more of pax being a nice guy. Sure its stupid, and yes i think this could be considered a paxson screw up, but ultimately its not a big deal. At least, not a problem that cant be rectified in the upcoming season.

Indeed, i understand that management must be blamed, and i dare not say that no man on the bulls team or staff is without fault to this horrid season. Yet, i still dont see any reason to fire pax or blame him soley for this problem. Of course, after this is said and done, this offseason better bring winds of change to the Bulls, or else then, Paxson WILL be the one at fault...His time has not come yet however. I am sorry if you or anyone else doesnt agree with this/my...insight.

Kirk Hinrich. The FORMER Best White American Point Guard in the NBA, Will Soon be Traded :(

by piccolomair on Mar 20, 2008 10:58 PM CDT up 0 recs

They're not tanking

Boylan is just stupid. He actually thinks these lineups give him the best chance to win.

by Big D on Mar 20, 2008 10:54 PM CDT 0 recs

I completely agree.

I don't think think he's intentionally tanking. Based on what we've seen from him, I gotta believe all the tanking talk here is mostly tongue-in-cheek.

by alec on Mar 21, 2008 10:05 AM CDT up 0 recs

This team

is not tanking by any means. The money the Bulls gain by making the playoffs is sick! JB is just that bad of a coach and the players just dont respect him.

Last night while watching the post game show they said Boylan still hasnt come out yet to address the media. I got so excited thinking he just QUIT. I was wrong though..

by Bulls4Ever on Mar 21, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up 0 recs

Gordon would fit perfectly

in Seattle. I think once they get situated on where there playing next year they'll become a serious team because there gonna wanna build around Durant, and BG is what there gonna be looking for. BG for Seattle's first rounder. Then trade Deng to the T wolves for there first rounder. With Foye at the point ,Deng at the 3 ,Jefferson at the 5 to go along with Brewer thats gonna be a pretty tough young team. This is all if we dont plan on keeping Deng and BG

by eross226 on Mar 20, 2008 10:57 PM CDT 0 recs

6 GMs in Bulls History.. who will be #7

Paxson's time is up!

Dick Klein (1966-69) 3 years (named the Chicago Bulls by owner Dick Klein)
Pat Williams (1969-73) 4 years ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_Buzzer_Game )
Dick Motta (1973-76) 3 years (four straight seasons of 50 wins or more, winning the NBA Coach of the Year Award in 1971, won NBA championship in 1978 with Washington)
Rod Thorn (1978-85) 7 years (drafted MJ and track star Carl Lewis, and that's about it)
Jerry Krause (1985-2003) 18 years (6 time nba champions - large than life ego)
John Paxson (2003-2008) 5 years (49 wins in 2007 - couple early exists in playoffs, then team tanked with 32 wins in 2008)

Looks like 1, 3, 5 and 7 are the lucky numbers? Who will be the next GM.

by exult463 on Mar 20, 2008 11:23 PM CDT 0 recs

Kiki Vandewhe

by armstrong2389 on Mar 20, 2008 11:38 PM CDT 0 recs

Didn't you have post an exact diary like this

three months ago?

Am I in December 2007?

"to the children: Fuck the Bulls." - Matt

by NittanyBull on Mar 21, 2008 12:51 AM CDT 0 recs

it may have been more than one diary

followed by a handful of comments repeating the tank theory.

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Mar 21, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up 0 recs

I didn't even read the whole diary,

I got mid-way through before I started to get mad. If hongy would have rather wrote this diary like this, I would have much more respect for him:

How to get NbA Rings

Get rid of bad players
Get good ones and make sure they're not bad.
Make sure they win a lot since they're good(see #2)
I'm such a geni(o)us to have thought of this

Can't tell the difference between the two? Neither can I.

"to the children: Fuck the Bulls." - Matt

by NittanyBull on Mar 21, 2008 6:28 PM CDT up 0 recs

I knew I saw this before:

http://www.blogabull.com/comments/2007/12/4/104520/743/15#15

Actually, I probably saw it even before that. So here's an original thought:

These theories keep getting recycled on here.

What? Someone already said that? Oops. I guess they did (2 posts ago).

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 21, 2008 11:44 AM CDT 0 recs

Two Issues

Larry Hughes, the blackhole of basketball, can't sit on the bench. The 13 million dollar man will mutiny unless he starts, plus having a guy making that kind of money not starting is tough to handle.
And, Kirk is still terrible and won't get any better. With Kirk and Duhon, the Bulls won't be likely to get a point guard, which they need badly.

by BarryLird on Mar 21, 2008 12:08 PM CDT 0 recs

I wonder if Duhon

will be back? You have no idea if Kirk will get better or not but thanks for your input Madame Cleo.

by sue369 on Mar 21, 2008 1:05 PM CDT up 0 recs

If I'm Madame Cleo...

Then I'd send you to a back alley on the West Side...
Duhon won't be back, I was just offering commentary on the diary's hypothetical situation. Duhon doesn't even go to the games anymore.

by BarryLird on Mar 21, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up 0 recs

You could try

but it wouldn't work. ;-)

by sue369 on Mar 21, 2008 3:12 PM CDT up 0 recs

Correct me if I'm wrong....

...but the Bulls can't sign & trade Deng nor Gordon before the NBA Draft. This was feedback I'd received in an earlier thread.

If you're talking about trading them for a lottery pick in a future year, that's different. But those players won't contribute next year, and who knows how a team will peform in the future (whether or not the teams to which they're traded would make the playoffs or the lottery).

And, as has been pointed out above, the Bulls aren't tanking. They're really this bad and this incompetent this season.

If they were tanking - it'd be much easier to lose to Utah and to keep 18-point 4th quarter leads against bad ballclubs. They're all upside down. If they're tanking - they're not even doing THAT right.

by BullsFanInSeattle on Mar 21, 2008 12:45 PM CDT 0 recs

Sign & Trade before the Draft?

I tried to do some research to see if you could sign & trade before the NBA draft, but short of searching through the NBA bylaws, I couldn't find anything.

by BarryLird on Mar 21, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up 0 recs

i would assume no

they're not allowed to talk to free agents until july, right?

by Jaina on Mar 21, 2008 3:03 PM CDT up 0 recs

Bulls Tanking?

I don't thing they're good enough to tank. They're best play, right now, is tanking.

by BarryLird on Mar 21, 2008 2:58 PM CDT up 0 recs

It's possible the Bulls could finish 6th worst

Not bad!

I agree with your unloading of Deng and Gordon for draft picks. I don't want to be stuck with a 4th-quarter-non-factor and an undersized-backup for $11 mil a year for the next five. That effectively kills our franchise till 2012.

Maybe, just maybe, this year's non-signings and subsequent crapout were the best thing that could've happened to our Bulls. Had we locked up Luol and Gordon long-term, then realized a year or two later they were just average players, we'd be even worse off than we are now.

I think we have to come out of this offseason with a superstar talent, and that has to be the sole purpose of our offseason moves. I think Beasley, Rose, and Eric Gordon fit that mold.

by YaoPau on Mar 23, 2008 7:41 PM CDT 0 recs