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Maybe I'm going into tank mode, but sadly Boylan just looks like he is

Boylan tried so hard to blow that game. I mean, he was really gunning for it. He even went 4 guards (Hinrich, Gordon, Hughes, Thabo) at one point.

In the meantime, the 24 point halftime lead went down to nine, but the Bulls hit some open threes and it soon ballooned back. Somewhere Boylan's writing that lineup on a napkin and saving it for later games. To him, he probably thinks it 'worked'.

Sadly, while in attendance watching the lead dwindle, I kindof wanted to see yet another spectacular collapse, with this being the greatest of all: biggest lead, biggest instance of Boylan incompetence.
Not only to give up the playoff quest, but in such a way that emphasized, yet again, just how bad Boylan is. I mean each timeout the Bulls came back smaller, it was comical.

What isn't as funny though is the fact that he can still not play Tyrus and Noah. This may be Paxson's greatest offense, that he can hire this goof on an interim basis and let him bury these guys while in a lost season. Thomas with 7 minutes and Noah with 20, none each in the 4th quarter.

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and no, Bullshooter
they're not 'showcasing' anyone. It's a dumb idea, because they're dumb.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 18, 2008 10:29 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Tyrus was 1-5
Clearly, he wasn't in the offensive flow. ;) Don't you know, it's not being seeing if Thomas ever does something right, it's about finding something he did wrong so that he can sit. Cuz, ya know, Nocioni is GOD!!!
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 18, 2008 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Boylan tried to lose it
but Dirty Jersey is just too awful

even JB couldn't lose tonight

by Orlando Woolridge on Mar 18, 2008 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Noc only got 10 minutes tonight
so I don't know what you guys are trying to say.  
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 18, 2008 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That Nocioni was the first sub.
In for Noah.

"It's time!!!"

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 18, 2008 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's significant
in previous games, even when Tyrus was shut out of 2nd half minutes, he was still the first big off the bench.

Tonight it was Noc, and only 2 relatively quick fouls changed that (and he threw in a technical, what a winner).

Why have Noc leap Thomas in the rotation, even if it was for that one game? It's not like Noc 'earned' it with his similarly bad outing the previous night.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 19, 2008 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, I don't get that either
but then I don't understand why Deng always plays the whole second half either.  You should be applauding Noc though.  It's obvious he doesn't want to be out there stealing minutes from TT and he's doing whatever he can to get back on the bench.  :-p
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 19, 2008 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah...Noc looks really frustrated
it almost makes me like him more, as in...he's now officially a real NBA player or something. Moody, doesn't like his role, etc. :)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 19, 2008 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

shared your feelings exactly
When he had Gordon on Carter and Thabo on Jefferson, no bigs, and NJ was going to the hole at will, I thought, this it, Elizabeth.  This is it, the big one.  No way Pax can let it go on.  I've listened to the pros and cons about launching him right now, and I think this is the perfect time.  I don't want this to fester all summer.  A new guy can set the new tone now.

by California Al on Mar 18, 2008 10:41 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Atlanta and New Jersey play tomorrow night
So with one of them guaranteed to lose I'm afraid you're stuck with the Bulls "in contention" for at least a little longer.

I seriously don't get the one stint a night for Tyrus.  Does that mean "development" by any definition of the word?  In a normal world, I'd say give the kid at least 10 minutes in the first, then have one of the coaches talk with him about what specifically they'd like to see him work on, then give him another 10+ in the second half to work on those things.  But in my imagination the instructions Tyrus is getting go something like: "play harder, play with more energy, and don't make a mistake or you'll sit the rest of the game - but you may sit even if you play well, because Boylan sort of forgets about you as the game goes on."

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 18, 2008 10:44 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I know this is the eastern conference
but I believe one is guaranteed to win as well :)

And if it's Atlanta they're then 2.5 ahead of the Bulls.

that 10+10 plan for Tyrus, while sadly an improvement, should be a bare minimum. Only if he craps the bed on those two stints. (yes I'd consider his first stint tonight not a good one). Him and Noah really should be playing 30+ each, and even though Pax strip-mined the frontcourt it still isn't happening.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 19, 2008 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Totally agree the 10+10 is a minimum
I should have clarified I meant on nights like this, when the first half stint isn't going so well - if they're serious about trying to get the kid playing time and see what he can become, I think you've got to give him at least 10 to settle down and get in the flow, then time in the second half as well.  There's enough minutes there for that if Boylan doesn't fall in love with the 4 guard lineup.

(I know, I was griping about eratic guard minutes yesterday, but the solution is not to play them all at the same time.)

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 19, 2008 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is a difficult situation.
I mean, if you're not that bright or have no plan. If Boylan had a clear directive (other than "win games"), it'd be easy. You sit down, and set up on paper, pre-determined minutes. You have at least one person on the bench keeping track. You adjust within the set minutes the variance depending on how they're doing. It will be tough at times, but if a coach were committed to the franchise (???), it's something that needed to be done.

It seems obvious to me Boylan (nor Paxson) has never sat down and said "This is what my rotation should be, and I'm going to stick to it as best I can." If a team wants to develop youngsters, I can't understand how this wasn't the first thing done. Before practicing. Before game film sessions. Before benching for punishment. It really boggles my mind.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 19, 2008 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Um that's pretty much what they've done
TT comes in every night at the same time regardless of what's going on.  He plays until he gets two fouls usually.  For whatever reason, he doesn't get back in in the second half.  But it looks pretty planned to me.
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 19, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Get your head out of Thomas's butt.
There are other players on the team, ya know? Your contrarian bot got stuck on 'Hate TT!' there.

Besides, the only plan is, "Bring Thomas in for Noah towards the end of the 1st quarter." which is hardly any kind of plan like I was talking about. Seriously, you should try thinking some instead of just being an ass all the time.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 19, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really?
You're calling me an ass?  It seems you're hypocrisy knows no bounds.  And be careful, you might hurt my feelings...  :-{
Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 19, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It knows bounds.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 19, 2008 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I told my
husband at the half that we had seen the last of Tyrus for the night. Boylan is so predictable.

by sue369 on Mar 19, 2008 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hinrich, Gordon, Hughes, Thabo
Now, if Boylan would just put Duhon in for Gooden, we would have the perfect lineup.

by Cannoli on Mar 18, 2008 11:02 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Actually
Where's Andre Barrett when we really need him?
BAB Tyrus Love-Meter -- 6 - Recognizing that he may only be the next Shawn Kemp

by cubbybear on Mar 18, 2008 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nononono.
That lineup is too tall. We're playing small ball, here. Once we get JamesOn Curry from the Energy, we can put him in for Thabo.
It would be amazing!

by Prevenge on Mar 19, 2008 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry
I forgot about JamesOn.  Maybe we can Avery Johnson as a player-coach, too.

by Cannoli on Mar 19, 2008 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gooden
It's time we gave him some credit, he's playing better than any big man we'd have in quite some time.  I don't see why we can't have a three man front court rotation with Noah, Gooden and Thomas and maybe a small dose of Gray sprinkled in when necessary.

by JSlakov on Mar 19, 2008 12:46 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

No thanks
TT at the 3 is not cool

by Illini15 on Mar 19, 2008 12:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think he means rotate the 3
in the PF&C spots.

I agree that Gooden looks good. Like most players that I 'hate', it's not that I hate them it's that they're playing too much.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 19, 2008 1:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

thanks
that is what I mean.  I don't even think Gooden is getting too many minutes.  He got 32 tonight, which if my math is right, would be perfect if Tyrus and Noah were getting 32 minutes each as well.  The problem is Deng, Nocioni, Sefolosha and god knows who else coming up getting minutes at power forward.  I can understand if at the end of games going offense/defense you want to go small on O, but as has been stated about the Sixers game, it means our ruin when it lasts for a significant amount of time.

I agree its hard to be a Bulls fan right now, theres a certain feeling of helplessness that I haven't felt for a while watching.

by JSlakov on Mar 19, 2008 1:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah
My guess would be that they are planning on trading Tyrus during the off-season, which is a shame because he really hasn't had a fair chance to prove he is a keeper - while he hasn't played very well this year, he also hasn't been given the shot to make up for it either, like so many other bulls players of the past. But really, anyone who follows the league even slightly would probably say in such a bad season, with the remaining games - he should be given a chance. Its a real shame.

by rquinsee on Mar 19, 2008 1:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why would they trade him?
Who and where was it said that Tyrus would be traded? If so, wouldn't they be playing him more?

They have locked him up for at least the next two years, they can pretty much do whatever they want with him. If that means he sits so be it. Maybe you don't agree, but it doesn't mean he's gone at the end of the year.

You know, the whole TT talk altogether is really kind of tired. He's just not that good. I'm sorry I even wrote this response.

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 19, 2008 2:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let's forget the debate about TT's quality
What I'm curious about is why you would think it's ok to let him sit for two more years simply because the Bulls hold him to a contract.  That's a waste for Tyrus and for the Bulls.  If they aren't planning on developing and playing him the next two years, Paxson has to deal him now while he still holds some value.  A player is like a new car.  They have a great deal of value before, during, and immediately following the draft.  That value can depreciate significantly with each year.  Other GM's still value Tyrus, but much less than they did last year.  If this trend of jerking around his minutes continues, or if he just sits like you insinuate, he'll be worth even less next year.  NBA GM's value him, no matter what you personally think of him.  If the Bull aren't going to develop him, they need to use him in a trade to upgrade the team.

by snley on Mar 19, 2008 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

what happened to you?
who said anything about sitting a guy for two more years.  They tried starting him a few times this year.  Why wouldn't you expect them to do that again in the future?  He's still growing and filling out.  I'd expect him to be a somewhat different player again next year.  Could everybody please relax with the TT isn't playing 45 minutes a game end of the world stuff...
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 19, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's 30 minutes a game
and why relax, it's pretty unforgiveable.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 19, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's plenty forgivable
It'd be one thing if his play warranted 30 minutes a game, but it doesn't, at least not yet.  And they should play him in the second half, but crying about it is ridiculous.  So everybody, here's a tissue, get a hold og yourselves.  All the tears are a little disgusting.
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 19, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

your knee-jerk contrarianism is getting old too
his 30 minutes are deserved because he needs to get better, and playing could help that. If you haven't noticed, the season is lost whether they're competing for an 8th spot or not.

And when he did start he was performing well, and the rug was pulled from under him because 'it's time'. To suggest that the minutes he gets are a function of performance is ridiculous, and from now on I will just start crying over your crying about the crying.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 19, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

let me say that last part again
if you're suggesting that he deserves not to play because of his performance in the minutes he gets...that's pretty much a character flaw by this point.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 19, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm curious
did I say I thought he should play in the second half?  Because I think I did, but I'm not sure.  Could somebody check that?  I might have one of those special browsers that only shows me what I think I might have meant to say.  Then again, you might have one of those browsers that just shows you what you think I was going to say so you don't even have to read it.  So can I get a ruling on what my previous comment was?  Please?  Anybody?
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 19, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well for one, you're not 'crying'
and overall you've explained away Boylan. You even said you don't think he's stupid. come on man :)

but here ya go:

"It'd be one thing if his play warranted 30 minutes a game, but it doesn't"

  1. his play HAS warranted 30 minutes
  2. even if it didn't, he should get it anyway. You can get a ruling on my previous comments as to why.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 19, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The NBA--where "Showcasing" happens
does your browser only get the first sentence of my comments?  Because that could be a problem.  :-P
Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 19, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

sorry, it's only filtering out your contradictions
so you're saying we shouldn't worry about his playing time, but he should play more. Not 30 minutes, but maybe 30 minutes if he gets in the 2nd half. (?)

But he didn't play the 2nd half, and he's not getting even close to 30. Which is a function of Boylan, not the performance of Thomas, which you claim it is. Unless you aren't in the next sentence.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 19, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think what he was saying was...
He'll play more next year, and even more the year after that.

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 19, 2008 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's already next year
Look at the standings. Every decision this coaching staff makes should be based on putting us in better position for next year.
Ye OldeBull

by OldeBull on Mar 19, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mostly I am saying
you guys are making my ears (eyes) bleed with all the crying...  Why does every game recap discussion have to be about how many TT gets, regardless of what happened in the game?  It doesn't.  He isn't playing enough.  We get it.  I don't want to get into which part is TT and which is Boylan, because I refuse to be the guy to defend Boylan, but TT isn't blameless.
Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 19, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because
there isn't much else to talk about with sub .500 team. The young guys are the only reason I am watching now and if they play limited minutes that is what I am going to be cranky about. I am certainly not watching us suck to improve my moral fiber.

by cranscape on Mar 19, 2008 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

thomas should easily get minutes
there's 96 minutes in the PF/C spot.  that gives each of the big guys (gooden, thomas, noah) 30 min with no problem.  either gooden or thomas rotates to the 5 depending on matchup (i've seen it argued that the extra C minutes should go to thomas not gooden).  if matchups warrant gray a bit, that takes away from the backup C minutes from thomas/gooden.  if noc is really on fire he can play a little more also as the 3rd PF but should get most of his minutes backing up Deng (get like 10 min there).

voila.  no reason that any of the 3 big guys should get less than 20 minutes a game.

by Jaina on Mar 19, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You should see
if you can get Kleenex(TM) to sponsor this site.
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 19, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Killing a baby seal...
Is unforgiveable.

Sitting a 21 year old kid on the bench because he is still learning how to play the game is natural.

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 19, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We should
sit the whole team down then.  One person's mistakes are excusable while another's is benchable.  Deng isn't very old.  Maybe we should have him sit if he fumbles the ball during a drive or whatnot.  He'll learn from the bench, right?  

by cranscape on Mar 19, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes...
Sit the whole team down.

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 19, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you might be on to something
Deng never gets benched, does he.  Hence my "showcasing" suspicions...
Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 19, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

deng was never benched before
he averaged like 38 minutes a game under skiles last year.

by Jaina on Mar 19, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well...
Deng was the best player on the team last year.

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 19, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i was just
countering the showcasing comment.

by Jaina on Mar 19, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right.
Took me a minute, but I see it now.

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 19, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Upon further review...
You are right. It's criminal that a 2nd year player is held to a different standard than a 4th year player. We should start a blog about it and yell as loud as we can about how unfair the NBA is treating him.

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 19, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

FYI...
I checked that blog out a bit. Some interesting stuff, but I then came across this interesting gem about 1/3 of the way down. It was under a posting about "changing the team culture"...

"Start by cutting Chris Duhon and Tyrus Thomas. Im sorry I wanted to believe in Tryus Thomas but it's over. He fucked up in Chicago. It's the Tyson Chandler effect. He's learned all bad habbits and needs a wake up call. He should have stayed at LSU 2 more seasons."

Personally I don't think we should cut the guy, but I doubt this sums up what you were trying to tell me either.

Thanks for the info though :)

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 20, 2008 2:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So can we assume you missed the JoeJoe era?
You should know that he'd also like to cut Thabo for excessive use of silly string.  :)
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 20, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

BAB created a monster
with the Tyrus playing time stuff...it started with a few people pouting and now people are overboard with it.

by NormVanBeer on Mar 19, 2008 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you...
That's all I was really trying to say, but I always end up arguing the other side anyway.

You are very wise Norm Van Beer... Very wise.

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 19, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's just frustrating,
especially when Boylan (1) has really unconventional, ineffective lineups in there, like 4 guards and Nocioni at the 5, or whatever. Whatever craziness he ends up going with. This is not Don Nelson at Golden State in the 80's. And (2), he's seriously stunting the development of our young bigs. The Bulls traded away their 2 frontcourt starters for the explicitly confirmed reason of developing their young bigs Noah and Thomas. These are 2 guys with all-star potential. I guess I'd also add that he seems to treat Thomas like a child, pulling him immediately whenever he gets fouls called on him. From very early in his tenure, he also has gone to great lengths to dodge any and all media inquiries into whether he'd offer increased playing time to Thomas.

Add up all of these factors, and it seems that Boylan is really more intent on the short term (and selfish) goal of holding onto his job for next season rather than actually doing his job, which would entail (1) development of the Bulls' young players, especially the high draft picks, especially when management has stated publicly that this should happen and (2) then only secondarily making the playoffs, because after all, why not, and plus, you don't want the team to become accepting of losing.

I try to keep quiet about calling for more PT for Thomas, because, as you mentioned, there's quite a lot of that going on here anyway. But Boylan's just so frustrating, and frankly, backward, on this issue that I believe that we will only see an increase of the chants of "fire Boylan" and "play Thomas more".

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 19, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No need to worry...
I think/hope Boylan will be gone at the end of the year anyway.

If he isn't then I would expect the deluge of posts about how he handles his rotation to continue, but for now I'd rather bang my head into a wall (all feelings about the development of TT aside that is).

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 19, 2008 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I did see
a "Fire Boylan" sign in the crowd last night. Anyone from in here?

by sue369 on Mar 19, 2008 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kinko's finest
Haha, yeah.  I can claim the sign.  I was wondering if anyone on here saw it.

by Stay Chisel on Mar 19, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wasn't commenting on TT's current status.
I was asking Kalid El Amin for clarification of his comments.  
They have locked him up for at least the next two years, they can pretty much do whatever they want with him. If that means he sits so be it. Maybe you don't agree, but it doesn't mean he's gone at the end of the year.

What I was getting from this is, the Bulls hold the rights to TT and they can do whatever they want with him.  Because they can bench him, they don't have to trade him.  I was simply trying to explain why that attitude would be to the detriment of the Bulls and Thomas.

by snley on Mar 19, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

See my comment below...
But also...

I wasn't saying they shouldn't develop him in the future, but for now they play him as much as he deserves.

If he thinks he should be playing more, well then... FANTASTIC!

Let him work hard in practice and over the summer and he might get in some games more.

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 19, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So that is the rule
for Thomas?  How about the rest of the team when they suck?  Or is this just how they should treat Thomas?

by cranscape on Mar 19, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No...
The rest of the team too. They all suck.

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 19, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

All this bickering daily about TT's minutes
Again, I'm admittedly one of those National TV games only cretons, but I don't think his play dictates 30 minutes or 10.  I think the issue here is Boylan's stubborn refusal to try to win ballgames and develop Pax's draft picks at the same time by playing them!

I've been watching how much potential is there for the high screen and roll if they used it more.  Noah sets a wide screen, and for some reason, rolls open down the lane.  Now with practice, he'll learn to finish or dish to the cutter or shooter.  Add that to the diminished pressure on the ball when the d has to respect the roll, and voila, some offense.  

Instead, the ballhandler now uses the pick only to try to create space for a shot, which doesn't materialize because he's being trapped.  Will all the necessary parts gel from the bench?  I don't think so.  These aren't bad players, but they're never going to form a rythm if there are 2-3 different faces on the floor every rotation.  I go back to my origianl thought: run 2 squads, one for Boylan's veterans and one for the youth.  Let their squad's performance determine minutes from game to game.

In fact, you could bring Pip back to run the 2nd squad; he did it as a player.  Wouldn't you love watching numbnuts looking over his shoulder the rest of the year?  

by California Al on Mar 19, 2008 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Original thought
I was suggesting LONG time ago to run two squads.

First:
Kirk
Thabo
Noc
TT
Noah

2nd:
Larry
BG
Deng
Gooden
Gray/Noah

So I don't know how original you are... ;)

(Ok, I'm drunk and argumentative right now so if you find this offensive I apologise in advance :) )

Btw, I HATE Boylan! And Noc-haters, and Kirk-Haters and Noah-haters and pretty much everyone who thinks Ben Goron is worth a double-crusted pizza! There got that off my chest! :D If this comes back to haunt me I'll blame it on the alkohol. Good night all!

by Bass on Mar 19, 2008 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL
No offense taken.  I meant my original feelings on how to get this team in gear, not original to me.  Saw PhilJax doing that really successfully earlier, even before Gasol.  Injuries have taken away that option, but it was beautiful while it lasted.  The 2nd squad had its own identity, and it seemed to create MORE teamwork, not less.  The guys on the bench knew they were going to get PT each half; how many only depended on how well the starters played.  If they got a lot of minutes, it was because they went in and kicked butt.  

by California Al on Mar 19, 2008 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We think
a lot alike. :-)

by sue369 on Mar 19, 2008 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've noticed Kirk tends to do well with the kids
and seems to be really attentive to getting them involved in the offense and making sure they know where to go.  And he sometimes disappears a little when in there with Ben and Larry (to bad he's not a Jerry instead), both of whom rather like to create for themselves.
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 19, 2008 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They can't trade him now...
The trade deadline has long since passed.

As for his "declining value"... He's 21. I'd guess that half the 2008 draft class will be just as old if not older.

Plenty of teams will think he's the same "high potential" player at 22, but the more the Bulls "showcase" this we expose how limited that potential actually is. He's that rare kind of player who actually becomes more valuable the less we play him. Which is how he got drafted at #4 in the first place.

Case in point, he averages 17 minutes a game with 6 points and 4 rebounds per contest, yet for some reason people around here think he's the next Basketball Jesus.

If he averaged 34 minutes a game with 12 points and 8 rebounds per contest we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Personally I don't think the Bulls are looking to trade him, and I think they realize what they have in TT. They aren't as dumb as people on the internet think they are.

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 19, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You might have a point there
TT could come out of this as one of those players who will make other GM's say, "they just aren't giving him time, but our staff can develop him."  I think giving him opportunities to show off his athleticism is the best way to sell him.  Especially in matchups he's thrived in before, like against the Pistons.  I don't want to delve further into TT's playing time or potential because I'm as sick of that debate as anyone.  

I do have concerns about diminishing returns.  Each year older he gets, the less his perceived value to other GM's will be.  If the organization is not willing to commit to him now or doesn't see him developing into a starter-quality player, they need to trade him in the offseason.

by snley on Mar 19, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right. At some point
it will no longer be possible to simply squelch the Stromile Swift whispers.  They'll become part of every paragraph written about him. Pretty soon, I fear you'll Google Tyrus Thomas and come up with Stromile Swift in the title line.

Tyrus has got to get on the floor and show that's not who he is.

by alec on Mar 19, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thomas trade dumb
If the Bulls trade Thomas after 2 years and don't get back a really, really good player then that is a big setback.  They had a playoff team that needed another piece or two and they had the 2nd pick in the draft.  Sad to just fail to capitalize on that.  

I think giving up on Thomas now would be foolish.  He hasn't even gotten a good look this year.  Work with him all offseason, bring him back as the PF off the bench next season (Noah starting at C, Gooden at PF) for 25mins per game (no Deng at PF and some Gooden at C) and give him at least half the season to evaluate his play.

by NY Chicago Fan on Mar 19, 2008 7:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sam seems to think Tyrus is gone this summer too
If I correctly decipher Sam's poor sentence structure, it sounds like he is saying he expects Tyrus to be gone:
Though after almost two seasons, those "talents" seem to be for all the wrong things. I suspect [Thomas] moves on this summer as well.

by paxson43 on Mar 19, 2008 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That probably assures
that Tyrus stays put.  Since, you know, Sam is always wrong.
BAB Tyrus Love-Meter -- 6 - Recognizing that he may only be the next Shawn Kemp

by cubbybear on Mar 19, 2008 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can't/Shouldn't trade Tyrus
Thanks to his erratic behavior (his fault) and erratic playing time (team's fault), his value has bottomed out.  He was the #4 overall pick - no way they's get anything close to that now.
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy

by mdmnd9294 on Mar 19, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, props to Gooden are in order
Dwyer also mentioned that "Gooden is the rare Bull that doesn't mope for a game if interim coach Jim Boylan sees fit to sit him early in a half."  With all the dysfunction on the team, I'm happy to hear that Gooden isn't contributing to the problem.  Now, one may argue that him playing well takes development minutes away from Tyrus, but you can't blame a player for playing well in the minutes he's given.


I think Gooden would be a great piece to have coming off the bench next season, but his "I'm going to work really hard this summer to fulfill my awesome potential" declaration makes me think he wouldn't be happy in that role.  

by paxson43 on Mar 19, 2008 7:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gooden/Hughes
I like Gooden so far I think he has shown he can help and with Noah be a better tandom then what Wallace was bringing Bulls.  Nice to have someone in post to score.  He really hasn't had much time to jell with bulls, next year could be even better.  Bulls just need to make sure he finds his role, takes good shots and learns where the Bulls shooters like the ball on kickouts.

Hughes - if he just drove to basket and drew fouls then would be decent piece.  My worry with Hughes is that he shoots too many jumpers at not a great %.  Problem is that him and Thabo seem similar but Thabo is younger and has smaller contract.  Hopefully Thabo works on jumper  

Its great that Kirk, Hughes, Gordon, Thabo leaves no room for Duhon as the offense and height on D improves as Duhon was such a bad offensive threat most nights.  It would just be great if the Bulls could get 1 go to guy who could draw fouls and score down the stretch as Deng doesn't seem to be that at SF and they don't have dominate post player.

by NY Chicago Fan on Mar 19, 2008 7:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i did say
Its my guess, so it probably hasn't been written anywhere - but you make a good point about playing him more - i hope thats true, also - at the moment I might agree that he doesn't seem that good, but I REALLY hope thats not true as well...hence the rest of the season should be about finding out...

by rquinsee on Mar 19, 2008 3:24 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

4 fucking guards???
i couldn't watch either game cause my cable has been out.. tried to watch them on NBALP broadband but the cable i was stealing from the neighbors was too weak and kept cutting out.

glad i didn't watch the new orleans game.. and almost glad i didn't watch the near collapse this game was.  might still watch it on archive to see how truly bad it was.

though i finally went through all the comments on here... in the hornets game, you all were saying you shouldn't take gooden out since he was playing well, even though you wanted to see thomas... however if noah wasn't playing well anyways, what's wrong with a gooden/thomas frontcourt?

that being said.. despite the win, boylan should immediately be fired for having 4 guards on the floor at once.  not that he shouldn't have been fired immediately following that sixers loss.

by Jaina on Mar 19, 2008 8:47 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I really think
Noch is gone this summer. He is not endearing himself to his coach or team when he plays like he has the last couple of games and the way he acted last night. I'm really getting sick of him. With him gone that opens up more time for Tyrus.

by sue369 on Mar 19, 2008 9:28 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm not so sure
Given who the coach is (and likely won't be next year), I don't think "endearing" is an issue.  Plus if we had half a coach, Noc wouldn't be stealing minutes from TT

by torch on Mar 19, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

After what I saw last night
I don't think anything the Bulls do will open up playing time for Tyrus.

by Option27 on Mar 19, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm hoping Nocioni and Gordon...
...are traded for some REAL TALENT SUPERSTARS!!! I actually would like that to happen, but it doesn't seem possible. For what? Another SG? Why would the other team do that? A PG? What to do with Kirk? Not for SF if they're re-signing Deng. Another PF? A truerer C?)

Howzabowt:
Ben Gordon ($12.5 mil) + Nocioni ($8 mil) + 2008 1st rnd pick

--FOR--

Stephon Marbury ($20.8 mil) + 2008 1st rnd pick

Holla!!!

(Oh, um, a deal would be in place on draft day and officially happen on July 1st. Hah!)

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 19, 2008 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Um, Marbury?
Are you hitting the pipe already?  It's not even noon.  

by kig on Mar 19, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you're joking right?
MARBURY?!?!  How can someone say that with a straight face??

by NormVanBeer on Mar 19, 2008 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

heh, welcome to my spec team
My spec bet was sign and trade Gordon for Marbury and Knicks and Bulls swap draft spots.

The Knicks are likely to move either Curry or Randolph before Marbury.  They'll have a new GM a few weeks after the regular season ends so we're not far away from learning about the Knicks future plans.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 19, 2008 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Isaiah's not fired yet!
He's been fired in the press so many times, it's not worth keeping track of anymore.  Until James Dolan is removed as head of MSG or Thomas is actually fired, I think it's safer to assume that Thomas isn't going anywhere.  Dolan and Minnesota's Glenn Taylor seem to suffer from the same blind spots for their GM's.

The NBA:
Where false idol worshiping ownership happens.

by snley on Mar 19, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

if this occurred
i'd never watch the bulls.  even if they do give him the tim thomas treatment.

by Jaina on Mar 19, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is
the worst trade ever.

Last thing we need is another me first player to tandem with Hughes and one who's skills are declining and who's always been overrated (look at how much better his teams did after he was gone).....

Plus he makes WAYYY too much money.

No Stephon can stay with New York.

I'd much rather like to see something like:

Deng + draft pick + Nocioni to Miami for Shawn Marion and a scrub.  We lose our 2 SF's but gain a much better (Though older) version....

Or

Hughes + Tyrus + Deng + Draft pick (top 3 protected) for Kaman & Magette (Corey can get to the line, which is a must for us).

This second trade would be a bit riskier, but I'd love us with this lineup.

Hinrich-Gordon-Maggette-Noah-Kaman (or swap the two, and mix in Gooden).  Noah's speed might make him decent at the 4, even if he's more a 5.....

But I digress...you got me into trade ideas.

I think LA might be ok parting with Kaman because Brand is coming back and those two have trouble coexisting (at least judging from the diff last yr vs this yr in Kaman).

Kaman's very underrated too.....having Gooden and Kaman would give us the underappreciated solid Bigs.....having Gordon and Maggette give us two solid scoring options who can get to the line.

I'd like to keep Hinrich and give him a coach.

Sefalosha and Noah are our top bench guys.

We lose out on Tyrus, but it's for the betterment of this team, since it seems mgmt doesn't want to develop him anyway.

by majoyenrac on Mar 19, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, only if
the Bulls have some female interns who feel the need to party with a delusional former All-Star in his pickup truck. And if they need someone to say incoherent things to media and have it put up on youtube.

But other than those two things, we might want to take a pass on Mr. Marbury.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 19, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

For all Marbury's weirdness
that thing he did with affordable shoes is one of the best, most socially conscious things any NBA player has done...ever.

by alec on Mar 19, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Um...
Matumbo builds hospitals in Africa.

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 19, 2008 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're right.
A lot of the guys are socially conscious.  I guess I should say that I particularly admire Steph's and Big Ben's work for the poor on the home front.

by alec on Mar 19, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol
There really are superior and inferior shoes.  Starburys are inferior.  It's not a new concept either.  Shaq's been doing this for almost 7 seasons now.  They're sold at Payless.  They're not $15, and their quality isn't really better than the $15 Starburys, but they both still breakdown faster than a quality pair of sneakers from Nike, Adidas or Reebok.

I'd rather the kids still save for Jordans or Lebrons.  There is a good lesson in saving to draw from this.  It's also an excellent example of how controlling your own capital and allocating according to your wants is a good thing.  Marbury and Wallace could support school vouchers and help way more parents than with $15 sneakers.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 19, 2008 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i wouldn't
wanna have a kid save up for really expensive shoes he's going to grow out of in like a year.  if the 15$ starburys get a kid through till when they grow out of em, that's better, if that's what the parents can pay.

also, no one should support school vouchers.  they should support the public schools.

by Jaina on Mar 19, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

spoken
by someone who's never had to rough it a day in his life.  I hope you know how dumb you sound.  Why don't you go to an impoverished neighborhood and OBSERVE some kids who can't even afford the $15 shoes offered by Marbury or Wallace...

by NormVanBeer on Mar 19, 2008 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You really have no idea where I came from
Don't let me stop you from pretending.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 19, 2008 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i don't have to know,
your comments told me without you even having to say a word.  Why don't you keep pretending that you know what it means to be broke.  People like yourself haven't a clue.  It's sad.

by NormVanBeer on Mar 20, 2008 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess I should point out...
...this trade 1) assumes Gordon is gone somehow because they finally got someone taller than him, 2) is getting something for him, 3) gets rid of Nocioni's contract, 4) has nothing at all to do with Starbury other than his contract and I hope he'll be bought out like Francis and 5) is about moving up 5 spots in the draft. Oh, and 6) will not happen and probably can't happen.

I just want to get something for Gordon since I know he's gone. The best way to do that is to combine him in a sign-and-trade. Nocioni has a big contract that is still too long. He should go somewhere. I turned to our First Friend to do this. If there are other ideas have at it. (I'm sorry for bringing it up in this thread.)

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 19, 2008 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

HELL NO!!!!
That is a stupid idea.

by sue369 on Mar 19, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You like Nocioni and Gordon that much?!?!
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 19, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ty
you know I'm not a Gordon fan but Marbury? Yuck!

by sue369 on Mar 19, 2008 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know. Buy him out.
I didn't do it for want of Marbury. It worked for Portland. It can work for the Bulls, too.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 19, 2008 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well only
if you promise he will never wear a Bulls uniform.

by sue369 on Mar 19, 2008 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't disagree
I don't know if I do these exact deals, but I would take Marbury for the purpose of buying him out.  I was advocating for this early in the year.  No way do I want him suiting up in a Bulls uniform, but I would do this deal to get a pick and clear some room.  The terms of the deal would have to be finessed, but I like the concept.

by Stay Chisel on Mar 19, 2008 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You don't have to buy him out
You can keep him on the roster to either move him for better pieces or just let the one year contract expire.  It would be very unlikely to buy out a player that would make over 20 million in a single season.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 20, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Playing Time Conundrum
I just don't know what they should do any more.  The Bulls look like my grade school basketball team that had a different lineup for each of the first three quarters and then picked the guys playing 'the best' to finish in the fourth.

I can't help but think about the Nuggets game after the trade and how exciting it was.  Now, it could just have been because Denver plays at a very fast pace.  But, after the trade and watching that game, how hard would it have been for Boylan and Paxson to tell the new guys that, while they are valued, they are going to fill in around the edges while they get to know the team?  TT and Noah would have played together more (w/Noah's passing and TT's baseline dives to the hoop making them a solid combo) and the three guard rotation with Kirk, Thabo and BG could have jelled.  Larry and Gooden couldn't have pouted that much and, even if they did, no one would care because they hadn't built up any veteran capital on the team.

Why would we want to do that though?

by Gene Banks on Mar 19, 2008 10:31 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm not very high on Gooden
He's serviceable out there right now, but is this because Gooden is good or because everyone else we've tried to play at the 4 just hasn't had the proper game to play the position?

A couple of things I don't like about Gooden's game.

  1. He doesn't finish very well with one hand.  I haven't seem him make any dunks in the low post with one hand.  In other possessions where he just cannot attempt a dunk because the defender has good position, when Gooden goes up with one hand, unless it's a jump hook, it is good chance that shot is blocked or just ugly with little chance of falling in.  It's something we used to see all the time from Tyson Chandler.  It's something that plagues low post bigs with smaller hands.
  2. He has no left hand.  He's post limited to the low left side block.  When he's posting on the right side it's a guaranteed passing situation unless the defender gives him too much space for a face up jump shot.  Gooden's only outs are to try to push his defender to protect the baseline, which is Gooden's strong side move, but this is difficult if the defender has watched scouting film and taken instruction from the coaches and forces Gooden to move to his left and towards the middle of the paint.  If this happens Gooden gets trapped in the paint and likely coughs it up.
  3. Not really his fault, but Boylan insists on long stretches of minutes that leave Gooden tired and underperforming in the final 20% of his floor time.
With a healthy contract, Gooden looks pretty good, but I wonder if these weaknesses can be improved.  Working on his left hand is a definite, but his hands aren't growing any bigger.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 19, 2008 10:43 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I hesistate to ask this
but did you watch the game last night?  He scored from both blocks and had a running one hand dunk.  It wasn't from a post move, but I think you might want to edit that scouting report.  Not saying he is the second coming, but he is a lot of the things the bulls have lacked low-post-wise since they traded Curry.
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 19, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

your sig makes me sad
what a disgrace!!
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Mar 19, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ask anything
I'm an open book.

No.  I did not watch the game last night.  I am not watching any more games this season until I read about Thabo, Tyrus and Noah getting significant burn together on the floor.  Instead, I'm following play by play writeups, live box scores, and game flow.  Then reading all the wrap up reports.

The Philly and New Orleans games were the last straw for me.  The imagery is too painful.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 19, 2008 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You missed it then
they had a nice run of Kirk, BG, Thabo, TT and Noah in the first half.  I'll have to watch more specifically to see if Gooden has a left hand, but he can make moves to both sides from either side of the lane, I have seen that.
Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 19, 2008 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think what Observer's talking about
is Gooden's occasional strange lack of touch around the basket.  It sometimes looks like he just jumped up from the bench press to attempt a feathery tap around the rim.  

by alec on Mar 19, 2008 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Since I didn't watch it
Did anyone of these low posts moves involve his left hand shooting it?
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 19, 2008 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ugh
I was at the game and went bananas when the 4 guard offense hit the floor.  I was hoping Boylan would put Duhon in to make it a real joke.

If Pax had any stones, he would fire Boylan now and coach himself the rest of the way.  This team is going nowhere this season so we need to look at what we have.  It's kind of hard to do that with Noah and Tyrus (and to some extent Gray) on the bench.  Neither TT nor Noah were bench-worthy after their first half performances.

Boylan is a clown and Paxson is a bigger buffoon for keeping him around.

by Stay Chisel on Mar 19, 2008 10:57 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Paxson's Waterloo: Boylan, Thomas & Noah
In spite of the miracle of trading away "The Corpse", Paxson is still on the hot-seat.  The team is still not performing to expectations in spite of both a coaching change and a major trade.

You can't have a season in which your team:

  • is in the lottery
  • finishes below .500 (apparently this doesn't mean a lottery pick in the LEastern Conference)
  • primary players significantly regress
  • limits playing time for youth (esp. Noah, Thomas, Thabo)
It's one thing to miss the playoffs.  It's another thing to miss the playoffs when you expected to contend for the Conference finals.  If you miss that miserably, do a number of things to shake up the team, and still do not develop your future stars??

In that case, you deserve all of the mountain of crap that falls on your head.  We're approaching "fall on the sword" time here...

"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy

by mdmnd9294 on Mar 19, 2008 11:49 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Word
The Bulls were supposed to be a contending team this year.  Obviously, they aren't.

The least they should do is go back to being a young up-and-coming team again.  At least then the games are fun to watch and there's hope for the future.

Noah is a hussle machine, and Matt Duhon is our best guard.

by preverbal on Mar 19, 2008 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perversely, I was somewhat depressed by the
victory, since it ensures at least another week of hearing that the Bulls are still in the playoff hunt.

Yeah.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 19, 2008 1:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It's a fine line...
hoping the guys you want to do well, do well...and at the same time hoping the team loses, and that all the blame falls on  Boylan.

by alec on Mar 19, 2008 1:38 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It's already next year,
I said way up the thread that every decision the coaching staff makes should be based on getting us ready for next year.
Actually it's management that needs to make those decisions since it should be obvious that this coaching staff won't be back, probably not even Pete Myers, whom I always assumed was Paxsons eyes & ears.
Paxson probably feels this is a lost season and it doesn't make any sense to replace Boylan or even work on anything new in particular.  
Next year it's a whole new coaching staff and probably 4 or 5 new faces.

We arrived in our 300 level seats earlier than we usually do so I watched warmups and the intros more closely than normal. This is a defeated team. They barely went through the motions on the player intros and looked on their way to defeat until Thabo's play lifted them. It's obvious that Hinrich, Deng and Nocioni have turned Boylan off and are just playing out the string. Actually watching Boylan and how the the players respond to him it looks like they should be chanting "Dead Man Walking"

Ye OldeBull

by OldeBull on Mar 19, 2008 1:53 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

How can they not have turned him out?
Random benchings?  Doesn't talk to the players?  Going to the same losing formula over and over and sticking with it though 20 point runs by the opponents?  He seems like a spiteful, bitter career 2nd looey.  And if you've ever worked for one, you know that a deaf ear is the only defense.

by California Al on Mar 19, 2008 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

W noticed
the same thing during the intros. On the closeups on TV there was little to no emotion. I was suprised that they won. Very sad really.

by sue369 on Mar 19, 2008 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i noticed the same thing
usually Lu runs out during intros and jumps in the air and bumps shoulders with Tyrus...last night he just slowly walked out with a messed up look on his face...their body language is speaking volumes

by NormVanBeer on Mar 19, 2008 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Random thoughts
At the game last night.  I can't believe that many people showed up.  300 level was 85% full.
Thabo and TT are the only players with potential to become significantly better than they are now.  (JK can improve but I don't think he'll ever be an offensive threat.)  Great to see Thabo get minutes, but TT needs them too.  TT was better when starting because he didn't feel the need to produce right away.
Boylan is coaching from fear of blowing leads, but playing the same five guys the whole 4th quarter just leads to blown leads.  He needs to give TT consistent second half minutes to help him get better and so they know what they have.

by El Toro de Goro on Mar 19, 2008 2:00 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Even though Pax/Boylan
finally realize that TT needs more than 7-8 minutes per game, they might have a hard time in figuring out the next step ... actually running plays for TT.   I think TT tried so hard to create plays for himself this year that some of his shot selection sucked. TT  is the type of player that when you run plays for him, especially close to the basket, he will dominate. We all know that here on BaB. Couple that with a developing (more than 7-8 minutes of playing time) short range jumper then the sky's the limit.  

by T2fan on Mar 19, 2008 3:29 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I gotta have more Tyrus
But he's most effective when paired with Hinrich.  Tyrus is even more effective when you leave Noah out there and sub out Gooden at the 4 minute mark in the first.  Same goes for the 3rd.

Kirk's been getting crap foul calls a lot this season which has further limited what we can see from Tyrus.  Kirk can help boost Tyrus' confidence and set his tone.  After that, it would be great to see some back picks to send him baseline for the lob passes, but eventually you just have to post him up to see what he can give you.  Heck, when Julian Wright is out there just put Tyrus in the dang game.  He will take advantage of these players.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 19, 2008 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thomas....
He gets his stint in the first quarter every game and if he plays well he gets more, but on the flip side if he plays bad he sits the whole rest of the game. While i dont agree he should only get one chance but if he plays like he did last night he should not get 30 min.

by bullzfan148 on Mar 19, 2008 3:40 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

He needs
to be sent back in during the second half to show he's learned (or not) how to correct when he did wrong in the first.  Trying to judge how a young player will play from a few minutes in the first half just isn't accurate, especially if the player is going through mental games by the coaching staff with benching/minutes in the first place.

Besides all of that, the season is toast. There isn't a single compelling reason I've heard yet to show why Thomas and the other young players shouldn't be playing extended minutes.  Get it over with now so we don't go through this yet again at the beginning of the next season.  The summer might help in fundamentals, actual playing time during the game is a zillions times more important though, especially since we are treading water anyway and have the time to give them.  The older players are not going to regress (even further I mean) or suddenly get more valuable at this point.

I think everyone is hung up on the playing time because there really isn't any other reason to be watching a below .500 team at this point besides trying to get excited about the future held in the young guys. Hard to do that when they are not playing them much.

by cranscape on Mar 19, 2008 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Paxson is as much to blame for Tyrus' lack of run
Paxson basically mandated that Gooden be a starter when he called him a "starting power forward".  It's still amazing to me how Tyrus can go from the starter during the games after the trade, and once Gooden settles in, Tyrus can't even be one of the first guys off the bench to sub in at the 4.  It's still amazing to me how Tyrus probably has his the best outing of his career at Golden State, and it only warrants him 11 minutes and 8 minutes in the following two games.  It's still amazing to me how the Bulls can prioritize a run at the 8th seed as a sub-.500 team over developing what arguably is their highest ceiling player and the player closest to having the talent at actually being an all-star.  They'd rather give those minutes to guys who are good enough to squeak into the playoffs and stick around for a round.  It's still amazing how the Bulls can willingly throw away a season even after realizing it was lost.  This is our Chicago Bulls, where things never cease to amaze me.

by messwiththebull on Mar 19, 2008 4:05 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It's as though we're holding
this long-running contest to see who can most succinctly/angrily/comically/insightfully describe the travesty that is the 2007-08 Bulls.  I don't know exactly what the rules are, but I'd say messwiththebull's statement here should get some points.

by alec on Mar 19, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anybody read the lovely article on Boylan?
This is my favorite part:
See a pattern here? What distinguishes Boylan isn't his basketball know-how. It isn't necessarily his passion for the game. It's the personal connection he makes with his players. It's the compassion Boylan has for "his guys."

It's full of awesome stats and player quotes from January, in spite of a posting date of today.  I had myself quite the chuckle.

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/boylan_feature_080319.html?rss=true (posted under the newsfeed as well)

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 19, 2008 4:29 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

lol
nice signature.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 19, 2008 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Compassion for "his guys"
Where is this so called compassion when guys are getting thier roles and minutes jerked around game to game. And i like how "his guys" are in quotes, im sure that refers to hughes and gooden. Bah, i wonder how pete meyers wouldve made out with teh bulls.
Kirk Hinrich. The FORMER Best White American Point Guard in the NBA, Will Soon be Traded :(

by piccolomair on Mar 19, 2008 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That just
makes me want to gag.

by sue369 on Mar 19, 2008 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that article explained EVERYTHING!
Compassion.  That's the point we're not getting.  Did you ever sit on the bench all 6 innings when your parents came to watch you play?  If only Boylan had been my coach.

There are more important things in life than winning.  TT has the game of his life in GS?  Good, now let someone else play.  Noah's being over competitive, trying to win?  Sit his ass down the whole second half.  Put the guys out there who understand that it's a game and should be fun.

Your 2008 Chicago Bulls.  Compassion is thy name.

by California Al on Mar 20, 2008 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How about this for insane...
We know Tyrus Thomas had a 39.5" vertical at the pre-draft camp.  Draft Express records all the verticals going back to 2000.  In all these years, who has the highest?  

If you guessed Jordan Farmar at 42" you were right.

Well, check this out.  Vernon Gholston, a 6'3" 266lb. DE from Ohio State had a 42" vertical at his pro day last week.  Here is a picture of the guy.  He looks like a cartoon character.

http://photo.the-ozone.net/photos/2007_2008/Football/07-09-22-FB-0045.jpg

by alec on Mar 19, 2008 6:42 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

sorry, I missed a couple.
It looks like Nate Robinson and some guy named Tim Bowers both jumped 43.5"

by alec on Mar 19, 2008 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Antonio McDyess
was said to have a 48-inch vertical.
"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 19, 2008 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok, found it:
On his NBA.com bio page:

- Has a 42-inch vertical leap and a one-step leap of 47 inches

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/antonio_mcdyess/bio.html

Interesting also to check this out:

http://www.topendsports.com/testing/results-vertical-jump.htm

Player:    Vertical Leap:
Michael Jordan    48" (122 cm)
Spudd Webb    46"
Dee Brown    44"
Harold Miner    44"
Vince Carter     43"
Steve Francis    43"
Antonio McDyess    42"
Dominique Wilkins    42"
Allen Iverson    41" (104 cm)
Dr. J    41"

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 19, 2008 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's pretty amazing if you think about it
TT is only an inch or two taller than Jordan right?  So Jordan probably could have dunked over TT.  That would have been something to see.
Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 19, 2008 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't there a playgrond dunker with
a 50?

I think I saw it on that sports science show.  Also, I think it showed Chad Johnson as having the same jump as this playground guy.

by alec on Mar 19, 2008 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he dunked over a car
can't remember his name though...  He was on that horrible show that Dee Brown hosted, in order to find the best street player/dunker
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Mar 19, 2008 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, that's the guy.
I didn't realize Dee Brown hosted the show.

by alec on Mar 19, 2008 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is the guy who did the 720
Is his alias Skywalker by chance? Im just guessing off the top of my head, i think he was called skywalker.
Kirk Hinrich. The FORMER Best White American Point Guard in the NBA, Will Soon be Traded :(

by piccolomair on Mar 19, 2008 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Was it Michael Wilson?
He's a globe trotter that performed a tip dunk on a 12' rim for a Globe Trotter show.

Mr. 720 is Taurean Fontenette.  He's known as "Air up there".  He runs with a new group of guys that all have amazing hops.  I think they're called "New Flight Brothers".  They're pretty cool.  They sent a bunch of dunks to Rudy Gay to attempt in the dunk contest.  Gay thought these guys were dunking on a 9' rim.  He didn't think most of their dunks were possible.

I didn't see the "Sports Science show", but I did watch the "City Slam" series hosted by Dee Brown.  There was a guy that was dunking over a 66" bar.  He was doing reverse jams to get over the bar in the way a high jumper gets over 84" bar.  It was pretty cool.

The one guy at City Slam that had awesome "standard" hops was "Springs".  I don't recall his full name, but at 6'2" he was getting about 46" of vertical.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 20, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

More misc. body stats
Tyrus height:  6' 7.25"
Joakim height:  6' 10.5"
Drew G height:  6' 8.75"

Tyrus standing reach:  9' 0"
Joakim standing reach:  8' 10.5"
Drew G standing reach:  8"10.5"

Tyrus wingspan:  7' 3"
Joakim wingspan:  7' 1.12"
Drew G wingspan:  7' 0.5"

So, even though Tyrus is the shortest of the three, just standing there on defense, he blocks more space.  And when he jumps, his advantage is extended even further.  Draft Express doesn't have Gooden's verical, but TT's is 2 inches higher than Noah's.

by alec on Mar 19, 2008 7:20 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

he's also probably the lightest of the three
and the easiest to push around.  But he's definitely the quickest of the three, so maybe he jumps over the guy before he gets body'd.
Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 19, 2008 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

These are meaningless stats...
All I have to say is Manute Bol and Charles Barkley.

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 19, 2008 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They're nice to have to refute those who have
tried to say that Tyrus is too short to play the 4.

by snley on Mar 20, 2008 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not his size
Hell AC Green was a Center and I thought he was like 6 6, Barkley was a great PF and he was 6'5/6'6.....

Tyrus is too rail thin to play the PF spot.  I worry if he bulks up to the size he needs to be to fit in more at that spot, that he might do that to the detriment of his incredible athleticism....

Matt'll be mad at me for posting again, but I felt I'll speak to all those who you might be referring to in your post above.....and I won't say more to refute your response.

by majoyenrac on Mar 20, 2008 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Long term hs doesnt look
like a 4 he looks like a 3 to me.  Kinda reminds me of Josh Smith of Atlanta.  A ton of raw talent.

by Takeaseat on Mar 21, 2008 7:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't Trust but fun to look at sometimes
Wouldn't believe in most of these measurements unless done at the same time, same place, same day, and same conditions.  

Many players age is not even correct.

Charles Barkley at Auburn, was listed at 6' 6" or 6' 7", depending on the year, but when he went to enter the NBA, he, he shrunk to a meager 6'4".  Though he and Dennis Rodman are in the top ten Rebounders in NBA history.

Barkley explained, he was actually measured by Auburn's engineering department, which explains why his stated height was off by 2 or 3 inches.

A good measure is to compare versus the refs on the floor, who normally average between 5'10 to 6'1, then you see that 6'4 point guard looking up at them.  

by Homegrown on Mar 20, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

NJ beat Atl
so the bulls are currently 1.5 back.  This next week should go along way towards determining things.  Games against Ind (tied in the win column) home and away with Atl, and @Phi.  All winnable of course.  All losable too.  I think they could even beat SA tomorrow night, coming in on a 4 game losing streak.  Ha, who am I kidding...
Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 19, 2008 9:06 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm telling' ya.
It's going to be like this the rest of the season, not quite chasing lottery picks, not quite in the playoffs.  And lottery watch is not nearly as fun when it's the Bulls who suck and not the Knicks!
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 19, 2008 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lottery watch is not fun
When the Bulls are going to end up with Blake Griffin.  
Dickey Simpkins>Ben Wallace

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 20, 2008 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've watched Griffin
several times and come away very impressed.  He's incredibly strong, athletic, possesses a soft touch and great handle, plus he's got real - as opposed to puffed up - passion for the game.  The guy just plays like an animal.  Consider him a far, far more athletic Hansborough.  There's duplication with Gooden and he, but if we get a chance to draft him (we won't) I think it's adieu to Drew.

by Freethefro on Mar 20, 2008 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blake Griffin is damn good
He'll make a fine pro.  I'd like to see how his jump shot looks, but he's aggressive in the paint and shoots with his left.  He reminds me a lot of Carlos Boozer only a little more athletic.

He is a real power forward.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 20, 2008 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm currently 33,000 in line for the
free video feed of the Tourney over at NCAA.com.

Between that and the Spurs game, today will be a complete basketball orgy. No work will be done.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 20, 2008 11:07 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

My friend...
...whose uncle is a big alumni at Creighton (which plays its home games at the Qwest Center where a round is being held this weekend), got offered 2 free tix to every game this weekend but had to leave this morning to go out of town for work. Sooooo shitty.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 20, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is without question
the finest expanded weekend of my entire year.  And to top it off, opening weekend of the dance coincided with spring break for the first time ever.  Now if the Bulls could magically beat the Spurs tonight and have an actual shot at the first 3-game streak of the year on Saturday...

(I'm not actually sure that's what I want for the team at this point, but how can you not want the upsets this weekend?)

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 20, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Since Illinois ain't in this tourney
I'm all about Memphis and Derrick Rose

Gotta support the illest player in the draft and the fact that he represents Chicago

I'd say I want him to play for the Bulls more than any player coming out.  

But that's for the draft thread so I'll stop right there

by Option27 on Mar 20, 2008 11:57 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Do you like Eric Gordon?
Before this college season I had Derrick Rose as the best guard expected to be in the draft, but wathcing the big ten this year it looks like Eric Gordon is going to be a monster at the pro level.  He's dropping 34 on road as a freshman in the Big Ten.

Umm, good.  Very good.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 20, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ding! Ding! Ding!
Undersized 2-guard known to score in bunches. Athleticism not a problem.

Let's say he's better than BG. So what if he's the next Gilbert Arenas? Or even the next Mitch Richmond? That's pretty much best case scenario.

Why choose the future Arenas or Richmond when you could try for the next Amare Stoudamire? Or the next Dwight Howard?

I'm jaded with regard to undersized 2-guards. Can you tell?

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 20, 2008 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is 6'4" undersized at the SG?
It's fine by me.  Rose is an actual PG so I'd be ecstatic if we could select him.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 20, 2008 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They do have their similarities
Maybe it will be out with the old Gordon and in with the new?

by RogersPark Kris on Mar 20, 2008 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess you can say
I'm just romanticizing about this upcoming draft.

Love and Rose is what I'm about this year

Love if they make the playoffs

Rose if they don't .. .. .. and get lucky

by Option27 on Mar 20, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bigger, stronger, faster
at the same age.  Gordon already has NBA 3 point range.  It took Ben Gordon additional time to work it into his game.

Eric is better ball handler as well.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 20, 2008 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So far, this Tourney is boring.
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 20, 2008 3:16 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

SO far . .
But I got Kentucky in the semi-upset and this is kinda a good game

by Option27 on Mar 20, 2008 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The college game always strikes me as
very slow, chaotic, and graceless (compared to the NBA). The extended shot clock drives me mad.

But the Tourney is a great sporting event.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 20, 2008 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey Tyger!
Tonight we get to see your guy Budinger play Joe Alexander. (Even though I'd never heard of him until Bobby Knight mentioned him last week, I guess for tonight I'll claim Alexander as my guy.)  

I wish somebody who closely follows the NCAA would start a Tournament Diary.  I'd like to know who we should be paying attention to in each of the games.

by alec on Mar 20, 2008 4:14 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

draftexpress is blogging the tournament
with focus on the draft/future nba players.
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 20, 2008 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Rush is the sleeper in this draft.
This thread is almost dead so Matt can forgive us.

His shooting ability is awesome and his athleticism and long arms means he shouldn't have trouble getting the same shot off. I could see him being a 20per36 scorer. But w/ height! I think his defense is underrated partly because he does look so disinterested. I'd be happy if the Bulls ended up with him and brought in some great player-development coaches.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 20, 2008 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He really is an excellent defender
I think part of it is being on the team with Chalmers and Robinson, both of whom have the strong defender reputation.  Deservedly so, but it sort of bumps Brandon to an afterthought when talking defense.  But he's had some absolutely lock-down games over the past couple of seasons.  Everything just seems to come so effortlessly for him - the big question is still how much he's willing to step up and take over a team.
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 20, 2008 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know you've mentioned him before.
I wanted to watch KU play, but either they weren't on here or I was working.  

I like ESPN's coverage so far...Digger and Bob Knight.  It's nice tio have a couple guys who really know what they're talking about.

by alec on Mar 20, 2008 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even here in BigXII country,
the game was such a blowout that they switched to another roughly half way through the first quarter.  It looked like most of the morning games were pretty one-sided though.  It's not nearly as much fun when things are pretty much chalk, so hopefully there are some surprises tonight and tomorrow.
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 20, 2008 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

draftexpress is blogging the tournament
from a draft focus.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Blogging-through-the-NCAA-tournament--Day-One-/

Espn.com has an article on top future nba guys to watch posted as well - it's insider, but looks like its on free preview for this.  This is the link for the Midwest, but you can link to the other regions from it.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=midwestr egion-080319&univLogin02=stateChanged

I know none of that could possibly be as great as BaB'er "expertise" (self-proclaimed, of course!).  I really only follow the Big XII closely, and a couple of other random teams.  I'm a complete idiot when it comes to most of the field, especially the mid-majors.  (Go KU!)

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 20, 2008 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm, sorry about the double post there
I guess I'm not paying attention to what I'm doing on the computer much today.
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 20, 2008 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bobby Knight checks in
with some very nice words about your Jayhawks.

by alec on Mar 20, 2008 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was expecting bigger things
from Joe Alexander this year with Bob Huggins at the helm for WVU.  I really thought Alexander had a chance to put him in the lottery if he could excel in the Big East and maybe obtain the player of the year.

These were lofty projections.  Anyway, a strong tournament can elevate a player 50 draft spots.  See Dwayne Wade for evidence.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 20, 2008 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I saw him kill UConn,
but then he kind of disappeared against Georgetown in the final.

by alec on Mar 20, 2008 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Time-out
Boylan needs time to appear as if he knows his s**t from apple butter.

by BiNgO on Mar 20, 2008 7:27 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

No open thread for the Spurs game, eh?
We only lost by 22!
I suppose I can understand.

by Prevenge on Mar 21, 2008 12:51 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

There is a thread
in "Recent Diaries" over on the right.

by cranscape on Mar 21, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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