Interpretation of the organization's mixed message

I'm still confused

as to why Tyrus only saw the little time he did last night. Why not just call it a 3 game suspension?

by Ugh It Live! on Mar 10, 2008 8:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Best he could do

Boylan couldn't schedule a conference call with Big Ben and A-Drain soon enough to get their approval to extend the suspension for an extra game.

by paxson43 on Mar 10, 2008 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tyrus never saw the floor after he rebounded the ball in the 2nd quarter, dribbled past half court, didn't pass it to Kirk when he called for it, and tried to feed it to Deng for a face up on the left wing and just passed the ball out of bounds.

It was an awful sequence for Tyrus. You have to give the ball to your PG. Tyrus must think about the team and what the team can do. Tyrus is not a dribbler. He's not a very good passer. So what the hell is he doing to trying to do both?

I still think Tyrus should have played more. You take him out, explain to him what was wrong, and give him a chance to correct for his mistake.

If he soils his diaper, change him.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 10, 2008 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and that was after

a few plays before where he waived off three guys to take it to the basket from the perimeter. He got a foul call, but it wasn't exactly pretty.

Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 10, 2008 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Obviously a reason to never play again.

Ever. Obviously.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 10, 2008 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

did I say that?

You might have thought I implied it, so let me go on record to say that I DO NOT endorse that position. To be honest, Boylan might have Alzheimer's and just forgot that TT wasn't in because he seemed to do the same thing with Hinrich in the second half. That or Boylan's a fucking tard.

Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 10, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Boylan

punishes with benching/playing time even if it is to the detriment of the team. Hinrich and and Thomas have been seeing a lot of this. Because, by golly, he is going to get his point across.

He should have sent Thomas in and told him to focus on rebounding. Give a player something to focus and succeed at and the team really needed a guy rebounding last night. Right now Thomas probably feels like he needs to do something spectacular just to stay on the floor and his attempt at play making and ignoring the offense is a symptom of that.

by cranscape on Mar 10, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm definitely not a Hinrich fan

But anyone can see that having two shoot first players in the back court is a mistake.

Maybe the Bulls are purposely throwing the season for the draft pick? A method to the madness.

by RogersPark Kris on Mar 10, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was thinking

Perhaps the Bulls are playing Larry and Ben so much to show them off for trade bait....

I mean Kirk has enough talent/skill to get 30MPG+ even with a Larry and BG on the team....

It's very odd that our leader/face of the franchise the past couple of years is suddenly playing 18-20MPG and that he seems comfortable with it.

Paxson obviously thought highly enough of Kirk to give him the big contract....I bet you Paxson has talked to Kirk and said that his minutes will be cut a bit while we showcase our 2 shoot first guards for an offseason trade.

Otherwise, why wouldn't we play more of a Larry and Kirk backcourt. Larry can give us those points/defend, and Kirk can uberdefend, and give us a consistency we lack in Gordon....

That's at least what I was thinking after watching Kirk shockingly ride the bench in the 2nd half.

by majoyenrac on Mar 10, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

at the PG

Hinrich simply is not a better defender than Ben Gordon.

In fact, both are average defenders at that spot ... nothing more and nothing less.

Hinrich's strength is that he can also 'slide up' and defend bigger wing players w/o too much difficulty ... something Gordon isn't very good at doing.

That said, however, when you evaluate Hinrich & Gordon, as a PG, for this team, in terms of:

Defense
Offense
Rebound

it's Gordon who comes out on top.

(in a way that's similar to certain other PG's from yester-year like the Supersonics' great player, Gus Johnson)

by khandor on Mar 10, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gordon's

A better scorer, that's about it.

We'll agree to disagree.

Kirk wasn't voted a 2nd team all defender by the coaches last year for nothing.....

That's all I will say.

Kirk is a better passer (and when his guys hit their open shots, Kirks a better than avg assists guy), he tends to have few turnovers normally....the only thing Kirk does is get into foul trouble at times with stupid ticky-tack fouls.

I think you'd be in the vast minority saying BG and Kirk are similarly skilled defenders....

I like BG as much as anyone, but it's not for his D. I think if Ben was 3-4 inches taller he'd be an avg defender, because he has some D skills, but I don't think anyone would ever consider Gordon a solid defender today.

Kirk's an above avg defender, even in this bad for Kirk season.

by majoyenrac on Mar 10, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

or Gus Williams

but everything else has been beamed in from Saturn, so there's no reason to quibble over a name.

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Mar 10, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

sorry man, but

the signal strength from Saturn isn't always operating at full capacity these days ... something about wearing down with the onset of old age ... :-) ... (D) Johnson, (G) Williams, Downtown (Freddie) Brown ... I think you know who I meant to say ...

http://www.nba.com/history/players/guswilliams_summary.html

When a PG who knows how to score the ball like Gordon also learns how to limit his own shot attempts per game ... it's a dangerous combo in the hands of a solid NBA coach.

by khandor on Mar 10, 2008 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

separated at birth ... from saturn

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ben_gordon/

http://www.nba.com/history/players/guswilliams_summary.html

by khandor on Mar 10, 2008 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gus Johnson!

Another entry in the "Who's Ben Most Like" sweepstakes! So far we have Vinnie "The Microwave" Johnson, World B Free...and now Gus Johnson.

I'm not making fun of you, khandor. It's just that this business of comparing BG to players from the past really rubs some of the more serious-minded posters here the wrong way. I, needless to say, do not count myself among them. Gus Johnson--very good.

by alec on Mar 10, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

See that?

I couldn't even get in ahead of him!

by alec on Mar 10, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Alec

how would you characterize/diagnose khandor's blatant and willful disregard for reality? Is it consistent?

Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 10, 2008 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ha! I did notice YaoPau

mention something about writing a diary in which the author argues against his own points...have to admit, it sounded enticing.

I agree with you. Reality seems to be taking quite a hit these past few days.

by alec on Mar 10, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

R.P. McMurphy

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073486/

by khandor on Mar 10, 2008 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gus Johnson the

undersized PF known for defense and rebounding playing for Baltimore in the 60s was very good? That Gus Johnson? Just checking, but I agree Gus Johnson was pretty good for his era.

by Scotter on Mar 10, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That was good

He was attacking Amir Johnson who is a weak perimeter defender. That's a film session response.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 10, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, punish him for scoring.

That'll learn you Tyrus.

Don't you ever, and I mean EVER, take your man off the dribble again. :)

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 10, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you raise an interesting point

but then how do you decide who's going to take the shot on a given possesion? So basically if TT gets the rebound he should just run it up the court and go one on one? And if he is forced to pass for some reason then BG gets to shoot it? Is that how you'd work it?

There were more than 10 seconds left on the shot clock when TT did that. If it had been in the scouting report like NBA Observer said, don't you think that the guys trying to set the picks would have seen it too and just let TT go?

Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 10, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did not Tyrus and Mike Brown

get to the arena quite early to work together?

Amir Johnson is filling up a highlight reel AROUND THE BASKET and stinking it up on the perimeter. There were a couple of questionable calls in the 2nd half where Amir was coming out to show on the high screen and hip checking Ben Gordon. Gordon just needs to dribble right into him instead of trying to get around a leg whip.

The high school kids have serious deficiencies in fundamentals. They defend with their hands on their hips. They show on the screen with their legs instead of their bodies. Not even a genius defensive roundtable like the Pistons' vets can cover up these things for Amir Johnson.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 10, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

this isn't exactly sabermetric, but it gets to the

point of the matter.

http://www.blogabull.com/comments/2008/3/8/172120/2150/17#17

by snley on Mar 10, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tyus Thomas..

... should have been givn the chance to help around the basket, both deensively and offensively. Boylan is an idiot...

by Vangelis on Mar 10, 2008 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Boylan must go now!!!!!!

He's soooo full of crap... Keeping him on after Skiles was let go was a huge mistake in judgement by Pax.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-080309-chris-duhon-duke-benched,1 ,1193571.story

"Here's how excited Thomas was for his punishment to end: Rather than taking one of two team buses to the arena, Thomas hailed a cab. He shot jumpers with assistant coach Mike Brown more than two hours before tipoff.

"He's played well against the Pistons," Boylan said. "His athleticism around the basket is always helpful for us against them. We welcome him back with open arms."

Thomas entered with 43.7 seconds left in the first quarter. He finished with one point and one rebound in four minutes."

by Hiryu on Mar 10, 2008 8:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

There were long stretches

in last night's game that were screaming for Boylan to insert Tyrus Thomas at the 4 and give either Noc or Deng a rest/benching. When Noc was in at the 4 he was being guarded by Jason Maxiell. Umm, ISO left wing perimeter EVERY POSSESSION. Make Maxiell play above his abilities. He will foul like crazy. Flip Saunders will have to reach down the bench and play Walter Hermann.

I really don't think our team is coached at all by Boylan. I was watching the the coaches most of the night to see their reactions to what they were seeing on the court. Ron Adams had three hand to forehead, rolling leg gestures going from legs side by side to legs crossed and turned. This is body language that communicates frustration.

In the 2nd half we were attacking the rim, getting into the paint, and going hard at the Detroit interior defense. Their bigs were all in foul trouble. The officials were practically parting the red sea for Chicago to win the game and we just stopped attacking the rim.

We have serious deficiency at in our coaching staff. They may be great in practice. They may be great at teaching. But in games they are inept. I've seen more activity from comatose patients.

WAKE UP!

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 10, 2008 8:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Rolling legs?

That's kind of funny, although I don't disagree :D

I have, however, seen no evidence they're great at running practices or teaching.

by Sports2 on Mar 10, 2008 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

How can you note that,

and not comment on the three hands he apparently has? If I had an extra hand I might roll my legs, too. ;)

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 10, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Steamy Turd"

I couldn't stop saying "steamy turd" everytime I saw Boylan last night. Last night the Bulls really could have used Tyrus athletic ability because there was no shot blocking and too many second chance points by the Pistons.

I think Boylan is one of the only people who wants the Bulls to win this year. Everyone else just wants to put this season behind them.

by Jesse07 on Mar 10, 2008 8:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

What's funny to me is

Tyrus Thomas is better than Gooden even with his needed development.

But I understand that Gooden is cagey, fundamentally sound, shorter, less athletic, played in the final four with Kirk Hinrich, hustles more in practice, doesn't make fun of Boylan, scores less than 12 points a game, and did I mention that he's older? In the end, that's all that really matters.

He's got those Adrian Griffin like qualities that you can't teach.

by RogersPark Kris on Mar 10, 2008 9:22 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

We need an interim interim...

...if there is such a thing...

by bullsfaninbigapple on Mar 10, 2008 9:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Jim Boylan's

idea of teaching is to never give a player a chance to redeem himself. I hate him.

by sue369 on Mar 10, 2008 9:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

No kidding!

All Boylan needed to do was give Thomas an assignment. Send him in to rebound and don't make him worry about making spectacular plays just to stay on the floor. We really needed some defensive stops and rebounds and instead of getting that stop we benched our best shot blocker and taller rebounder because he made a few offensive blunders.

by cranscape on Mar 10, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Skiles was known for his Strictness

Make a mistake, no matter how small, ill put you on that bench. Thats what skiles did right. Hinrich commits a stupid T.O, bam on the bench, duhon take his place! Duhon comes out misses a defensive assignment, Hinrich get your ass back out there! Hinrich plays well the rest of the way, he stays. The next game, everything was forgotten, and the cycle began again. Thats how skiles did it.

Why the bulls rebelled is still up in the air, i remember the reason many wanted skiles fired here was mainly guys like thabo and tyrus got little playing time since they would make a mistake the moment they stepped on the court, so when it seemed the bulls were losing possibly due to not listening to skiles we were relieved.

Who would have known, we would get BOYLAN. I cant figure the man out. At first i thought he would play the better players and would be less strict, and by golly he was. You make a mistake and he keeps you in the games, Thabo got good. We were happy. Yet all of sudden after the deadline he goes bonkers, sitting out players for no reason, is thabo injured, or is this another boylan plan to give hughes more playing time?

In the process the bulls have totally lost any credibility they had in the league, the playing style that made them famous is gone with the old coach, the defensive numbers are way down, they are the worst efficient team offensively in the league, and yet you see the players and (except for injuries here and there) they got better (Hughes and gooden are WAY BIG improvements over wallace) so how do u explain all this. THE DAMN COACH!!!

Kirk Hinrich. The Best White American Point Guard in the NBA.

by piccolomair on Mar 10, 2008 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

On a more serious note...

...the biggest failing of the coaching staff is getting players to understand their strengths and limitations, and teaching them to play to them. Of course this pre-supposes that the coaches themselves are able to correctly identify these things. For example, it still boggles my mind that after all these years of coaching the Bulls, Boylan doesn't get that BG cannot be the primary ball handler.

by bullsfaninbigapple on Mar 10, 2008 9:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

depends on your definition of primary ballhandler

Gordon was definitely the primary ballhandler when the Bulls were winning games. My definition is "has the ball more than anyone else."

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Mar 10, 2008 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

If I see Gordon trip over the three point line and cough up the ball one more time...

by torch on Mar 10, 2008 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You'll complain about it?

And hope a player who's worse but does other things poorly gets a shot at sucking more?

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Mar 10, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Even the most fervent Ben Gordon defenders

have to admit that his late game turnovers are more than an occasional anomaly and saying that simply, "Well, no one is better!" is a flat out cop out.

by RogersPark Kris on Mar 10, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not a Ben Gordon defender

I'm a get a better player, or don't play someone worse advocater. I'd also like to see someone else on the team try to do something at the end of games, with Ben Gordon on the court. Imagine that!

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Mar 10, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

nba basketball's a funny game

when you put a different set of players on the court with a PG like Ben Gordon ... ie. big & agile who can defend & rebound the ball (Sefolosha, Hughes, Deng, Nocioni, Thomas & Noah) ... everything about Gordon's 'game' changes for the better, including his 'decision-making with the ball'.

The fact that he's played porrly in the past ... when teamed with lesser calibre players than the Bulls have on their roster right now ... is completely irrelevant to how he could/would be able to perform with the guys on this team at the moment.

by khandor on Mar 10, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

he's actually played better in the past

Nocioni is big and agile?

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Mar 10, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

as a wing player

yes, he is.

by khandor on Mar 10, 2008 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you're right

If only the Bulls could add other big and agile players like Brian Scalabrine, Speedy Claxton, Mark Eaton, Earl Boykins, and Jerome James. There are no better combinations of bigness and agility in any other players.

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Mar 10, 2008 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

actually

I was thinking more along these lines

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbxzfVl_7c4

instead of Brian Scalabrine, Speedy Claxton, Mark Eaton, Earl Boykins or Jerome James.

In general, there's a very good reason "______ is considered the lowest form of wit."

enjoy the rest of your day.

by khandor on Mar 10, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

all that size and agility

got the Noc one rebound in 29 minutes last night. And I'll guess that one was jumping over a teammates back. Which does take some agility, I guess.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 10, 2008 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes, but

how many rebounds did the Bulls collection of 'big & agile' wings collect as a group?

on his own, I wouldn't necessarily say that Noc is a keeper but, in concert with hughes, deng & sefolosha? ... yessir, he sure is, in my book.

by khandor on Mar 10, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What are you guys talking about

has it been that long? Big agile wings? Noc? Give me a break! The closes player to being agile on this roster is Larry Hughes... thats it!

Please remember Scottie Pippen and MJ. The way they would cut to basket, catch the call and make a hop all in one motion... it hasn't been that long has it? Gezzz

I swear from the Deng (standstill jump shot shooting) fans to the Kirk (getting pushed all over the place) fans, we have on this board we have really lost some of our understanding for the athletic player. But there is hope I guess, I mean I think this is the reason there are so many supporters of Tyrus Thomas because they see that kind of potential in him.

by Takeaseat on Mar 10, 2008 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let me fix that sorry

Please remember Scottie Pippen and MJ. The way they would cut to basket, catch the ball and make a hoop all in one motion... it hasn't been that long has it?

by Takeaseat on Mar 10, 2008 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's a lot of conundrums in one comment ;-)

but I will say that BG did an excellent job last night of doing his thing. He didn't try to pass it or take it to the basket much unless the lane was wide open. He just took open jump shots and nailed them. It seems like those looks are there for him most games, I just wish he'd look for them.

Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 10, 2008 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's beginning to look to me

like BG is the most tough-minded player on the team. He seems to be about the only guy that has risen above all the bs. It's almost enough to make me think that his problems early on were just a plain old shooting slump.

by alec on Mar 10, 2008 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

for one game at least

he definitely came out with a different approach after sitting quickly with those two fouls. Hopefully he comes out that way next game, too.

Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 10, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gordon is still a massive

defensive liability. Without improving his defense drastically he can easily be sidelined by forcing him into foul trouble.

The alternative is just letting his man get by him and hope that help defense doesn't leave so many holes in the interior defense to generate increased offensive rebounding opportunities for the opponent.

Is there a sabremetric that evaluates all this? I need something to compare against his proven scoring ability.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 10, 2008 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Replied to the wrong post, but either way

Gordon's D is something that can be lived with.

http://www.blogabull.com/comments/2008/3/8/172120/2150/17#17

by snley on Mar 10, 2008 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yet Gordon's

fouls per game are down. So he's not fouling as much. But how do you gauge how many times he's giving up buckets without fouling?

Does the Roland Rating do this?

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 10, 2008 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gordon is going to end up on...

... a team like Golden State or Seattle where he can play either a run and gun style or he can play off a real superstar and he'll be a monster!!!

Seeing as though he averages about 20 pts as things stand, if we had someone who could take the defensive focus off of Gordon then he'd really be dangerous. Someone who was truly a #1 option. Put Gordon next to any of those guys in the league and Gordon explodes!!!

by lexdiamonds0730 on Mar 10, 2008 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree 100%

It seems no one besides Gordon (with the exception of Tyrus Thomas when he's in) wants to shoot the ball down the stretch. What's up with that?

Everyone just gets out of Ben's way and he goes 1 on 5 and I think the defenders know that no one else is gonna step up and that's why he's always under so much pressure when tryin' to get a good shot off.

by lexdiamonds0730 on Mar 10, 2008 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It seems to me like

they don't even draw up plays at the end of the half or game. After a time out and huddle they all look confused and flat footed and Ben ends up taking the shot because no one is doing anything. Unless that was the plan all a long. Which isn't a comforting thought.

by cranscape on Mar 10, 2008 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There is a play drawn

It's the same as every play Boylan draws. Gordon with the ball, Noc playing the 4 coming to set a high screen to pull a shot blocker out of the paint, Gordon appears indecisive to where he wants to go, Noc is told to screen and leak to the 3 point line, Deng is asked to cut from the baseline, Noah screens for him, the other guard(Kirk, Larry, Thabo) camps in the corner baseline for a 3, and pray the defense collapses to create a shot opportunity.

It's ineffective because Gordon isn't a very strong passer and doesn't use the screening teammate to their full advantage.

The Pistons run this exact same play with Billups as Gordon and Sheed as Noc. It works for them because Billups is a better ball handler, knows how to maximize Sheed's body as a screen, and Sheed knows when to roll off to the perimeter and when to roll to the bucket to pull a help defender off McDyess/Maxiell/Prince.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 11, 2008 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So

If Noc was Sheed and Gordon was Billups we'd have a good play? Sounds like we need a different play book.

by cranscape on Mar 11, 2008 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

When Ben was 7-7 from the field

were any of those shots NOT created off the dribble?

This is his game. When he was spotting up to shoot(think 4th quarter wide open right baseline that was a bad brick) the shots weren't falling. Also, when Ben does spot up to catch and shoot his elevation is weaker. The shot isn't as fluid with proper rotation when he's not getting his legs into it.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 10, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

most were one or two dribbles

or catch and shoot. He was leaning into them better last night for some reason. The wide open baseline miss was after he'd played for at least 10 minutes straight.

Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 10, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

if you check the game thread from last night, you will see that, at the time gordon missed that baseline jumper, i said he was tired and the bulls needed a time-out.

by khandor on Mar 10, 2008 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes, but

these are fixable defects ... and, the skills he has in 'creating' his own shot off the bounce are more than worth their weight in gold, in the nba ... if he's coached properly, at the PG spot, with wings like hughes, deng, sefolosha & nocioni, and bigs like thomas, noah & gray.

with the right coach in place, i'd say this team, right now, is very close to being very very good.

by khandor on Mar 10, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's come to the point

Where I don't even want to have "depth" anymore on our team.

Only speaking about the Bulls . . .

I used to think depth was a luxury to have on good nba teams.

Now depth just means your best players sit behind veterans on poor teams.

The only think Pax can do to get Tyrus playing time to to trade everyone who Boylan is able to play ahead of him.

Who am I kidding? Even at that point, Boylan would just play Deng more at the four and have a 3 guard squad out there.

We can't win with this guy at all.

by Option27 on Mar 10, 2008 10:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

CSN's 'bench points' graphic

begs to differ :)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 10, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ben Gordon is good

but how do we make him great?

He was on fire from the field when he could actually stay in the game and avoid fouling. This does mean he will give up easy buckets especially to players that dominate him like Billups and Hamilton. But when those players were on the bench Ben Gordon was the best player on the floor.

Just watching Saunders tease Chicago by keeping Billups on the bench in the 4th was frustrating. I knew it was only a matter of time until Flip wanted to patch the wounds and make the Bulls start bleeding.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 10, 2008 11:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

the position he plays is key

on the wing, Gordon's a limited NBA player ... but, at the PG spot, his ability is strictly 1st rate.

I'm going risk incurring wrath when I say this on this site, but ... Ben Gordon is a terrific PG for a team that would use the Triangle Offense ... to exploit the multi talents of players like Hughes, Deng, Sefolosha, Nocioni, Thomas, Noah and Gray (plus Duhon, as a back-up).

by khandor on Mar 10, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

he's only first rate at shooting

so why would you put him at the PG spot, unless you wanted to be the Knicks?

Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 10, 2008 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You must notice by now

that Ben Gordon's shot is much better when creating off the dribble. He needs the dribble as momentum to get his legs under him for proper elevation. When he is standing off the catch to shoot his elevation is poor, follow through is weaker, and his shot doesn't seem square with the rim bricking left or right.

I admit, this is really odd, but Ben Gordon may have more balance to work with while moving laterally than he does straight up and down.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 10, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

or he could just learn to step into his shot

seems easier than having four other guys doing nothing but setting picks and rebounding. And fewer TO's, too. :-)

Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 10, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

when they send Gordon along the baseline

for a catch&shoot, it actually goes in quite regularly. Too bad they try that about once a week. Maybe the key is to at least get him moving.

Or like Bullshooter sez, instead of avoiding the situation, he can get better in shooting when 'set' also

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 10, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've officially made the switch

During football season, my desktop is adorned with images of Devin Hester, Lance Briggs, Urlacher etc.
During basketball season, I like to rotate photos from Bulls games periodically throughout the month. Thomas making a block, Deng at the top of his release, etc. Well, they've made me do it. After weeks of searching for a good photo from a rare win (I consider it bad luck/poor form to use a photo from a loss), I made the switch.
My desktop photo now: aerial shot of beautiful HoHoKam park during a Cubs spring training game. That's the biggest indictment I can think of.

by Old Skool Sloan on Mar 10, 2008 11:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Does anyone

remember early in the first quarter when Kirk drove the lane and had Chauncy in the air and he dished it off? Well if he had just risen up he wouldve had Chauncey foul him. Of course he didnt and the entire game changed into a Billups love fest soon after. Thats the difference betwen the two. Chauncy wouldve been looking for that all along and taken the foul and made his free throws. That was the turning point in the game. Its that kind of recognition that holds Kirk back from ever being a respected player in this league.

Seriously the last two games the officiating has been really bad (last nights love fest with Chauncy, and watching the Boston hacks get away with murder) Would love to see those two games played again on an even playing field.

TT- Ok 4 minutes? Thats not right. We couldve used him last night. I realise he was being a brat but pull him and talk to him and then send him back out, thats what coaching is. Dont just sit him the rest of the game for no reason other than him being a 2nd yr player whose obviously struggling to understand why he keeps getting jagged around. its one thing to strip a younger player of his starting spot for no appearant reason but its another to hamper his development by your lack of coaching skills.

Boylan- Fire this guy already. Still has terrible rotations. Doesnt seem to interested in developing the young guns. Doesnt show us he's coaching them up at all. Hasnt brought anything new to this team at all. Sure the PPG has gone up for us but thats because Skiles ran a tite ship (trying to control the tempo etc). Also he's really doing a number on Kirk and TT not to mention Noah. Poor Thabo I cant wait to see how bad he gets jagged around by Boylan when he gets back from Injury (if hes even hurt at all) FYI Hes been playing with that groin injury for a few weeks now. Seems kind of odd they shut him down now. Seems more convienent than anything.

by Bulls4Ever on Mar 10, 2008 11:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Billups play is the result of strength training

He has grown incredibly well from a strength standpoint. When he gets around his man and then uses that step forward and jab step, that is the result of strength training. He has worked immensely on his upper body, especially his shoulders, to be able to use that to bully smaller players. He also uses a leg kick to get cheap calls, but this is really something the officials give to him. He has another move where he just dribbles into defenders and lifts his left knee up to the defenders chest to bully him for space. This should be a an easy offensive foul to call, but Billups is the only player I know if the league that uses their leg like it's an off arm to generate space between the defender.

I thought the first half was officiated rather poorly giving a large edge to the Pistons especially in terms of getting Kirk Hinrich out of the game. Kirk plays defense really well against the Pistons and Heat. His skillset is chasing the shooting that runs off double screens to get their shot. He was very solid against Wade, Ray Allen, and Rip Hamilton nearly every regular season game last year in those meetings. The 2nd half did give us some calls. The Amir Johnson block of Gordon and the Prince backpeddling in the paint to deny Hughes were two examples of favorable calls to the Bulls.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 10, 2008 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i agree

that these are strengths of hinrich, but ...

i) at his size (too small) this is of limited value to a top notch NBA; and,

ii) especially with his tendency to hoist up ill-advised perimeter jump-shots that miss their mark too frquently

he's a far cry from being a terrific screen-chaser like Bruce Bowen (who doesn't ever shoot bad shots or have a need to dribble the ball).

by khandor on Mar 10, 2008 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

so you'd replace him with someone

who is worse on defense and wants to dribble just as much, but isn't nearly as proficient at taking care of the ball. It took almost 5 minutes for Hinrich to pick up his first two fouls. BG only took 49 seconds. Did you miss that?

Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 10, 2008 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

look

you tell me ... Was Gordon playing the PG spot when he took those first 2 fouls? or, was he playing the 2-spot at that time?

there's a big difference.

by khandor on Mar 10, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

if Billups is the other PG

then BG was playing the PG spot, at least on defense, because that's who drew the fouls.

Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 10, 2008 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

since I didn't see that part of the game

then you can tell me ... Who else was on the floor with Gordon at that time?

(e.g. Was it Hughes, Deng, Thomas and Noah? ... something tells me, it was not)

by khandor on Mar 10, 2008 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I already clued you in to the popcorn machine

it was hughes, deng, noah, and Gooden. So three of your ideal lineup was out there and BG was definitely the point guard. I really should start charging you for the education you are getting...

Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 10, 2008 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

guard positon on defense

Does it matter if Gordon is playing PG on offense and defending the SG on defense?

The point as noted is that Gordon really cannot guard anyone in the league. We're talking almost anyone. There must be ways he can mask defensive deficiencies.

The Pistons are one of the best back courts, but they are also one back court where Ben Gordon struggles to do anything on defense.

Short short version: What does the position Gordon is playing have to do with the player he is tasked with guarding?

Do we just play zone whenever Gordon is in the game?

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 10, 2008 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He had 27

pts., 2 TO's, 2 ast., and 3 rbds. and was a -6 for the game. Doesn't that say a lot about his defense?

by sue369 on Mar 10, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ben gordon

is not a top notch defender ... but he is also a better defender (at the PG spot) than what he's being given credit for on this site by some of you.

A top notch NBA coach would still be able to gameplan effectively by hiding Gordon's weaknesses and emphasizing his strengths, for example, like what Pat Riley did with Jason Williams and what Gregg Popovich is doing with Tony Parker.

There are a lot of different ways to play the game effectively on defense, at this level, but not a great many players who can score the ball like ben gordon can.

by khandor on Mar 10, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Huh??

Were u describing Hinrich or Gordon????

Kirk Hinrich. The Best White American Point Guard in the NBA.

by piccolomair on Mar 10, 2008 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Khandor

does not like Kirk and is in love with BG. Can't you tell by his love fest in every thread?

by sue369 on Mar 11, 2008 6:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

THat was a given yet

His description of kirk also fits BG right there

Kirk Hinrich. The Best White American Point Guard in the NBA.

by piccolomair on Mar 11, 2008 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am considering pimp slapping

Boylan tomorrow.

Just to wipe that smug, stupid look of his face.

He parades around the sideline, chest thrust out, dire squint in his eyes, pursed lips, muttering, trying desperately to project authority.

What a dunce.

YOU ARE AN INTERIM PUPPET.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 10, 2008 11:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Christ, even Flip Saunders recognizes

that Tyrus is a good match-up against the Pistons:

''They played well against us last year until the playoffs,'' Detroit coach Flip Saunders said. ''It's matchups partly and although they've struggled to make shots this year, they've made shots against us.

''Tyrus Thomas has played well, Nocioni has played well and they really pounded us on the offensive boards. They've taken what has been our strength and kind of made it our weakness.''

Not remedial Boylan, though. Drolling dufus. But don't worry, he has the "defensive effort" mantra down pat:

''Until we put forth a better effort on the defensive end, it's going to be that way for us,'' coach Jim Boylan said. ''They were able to drive by us pretty much at will I thought.

''Our pick-and-roll defense was not very good, our weak-side defense was slow to react and they really hurt us on the boards.''

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/basketball/bulls/834164,CST-SPT-bull10.article

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 10, 2008 12:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Drooling, even.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 10, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Boylan translation:

"Fire me! What the fuck do I have to do to get fired? I've tried everything! That's it, you leave me no choice but to go with a 4 guard line up! Here it is, my new 'small ball' lineup - Hinrich, Gordon, Hughes, Thabo, Nocioni. In your face!"

by RogersPark Kris on Mar 10, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Noah's optimism is hilarious

From ESPN

Noah saying of the Pistons: ''I still think we are better than them, really.''

by Option27 on Mar 10, 2008 1:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

hmm, unlikely

but we're having a shit season and still finishing 3-1 against them during it. What does that say about the Pistons?

They can beat us forever if the refs allow Jason Maxiell as many moving screens and pushes on the offensive glass as he wants. I know Noah's a beanpole, but he's getting shoved into the basket protector pad while Maxiell gets the OReb and putback tip.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 10, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the bulls were in that game the whole way

if they play cohesively like they did last year, there aren't too many teams that are really that much better.

Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 10, 2008 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i agree

if Chicago can just grab the 8th playoff spot ... even a 1st Rd exit to this year's Celtics team would be a very positive learning situation for the baby bulls, if only boylan would play them.

by khandor on Mar 10, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

even at their 'best'

it still left little margin for error. And that margin is obliterated by Boylan.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 10, 2008 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

if benching Hinrich and Tyrus is their best

but I don't think you think that.

Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 10, 2008 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm referring to last season

when they were a good (or whatever adjective made them better than this current) team.

They'd still have to play a near-perfect series to beat the Pistons. They were never good enough to be considered 'better', just having a chance. With Boylan (and one could argue with Skiles, given how game 3 went) they have little chance.

I'm surprised how optimistic you are about this group. But they really don't have an option to get better players, so a coach/system that works is the sensible way to go. I'd always side on coach-proof, but that's harder to do.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 10, 2008 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

everybody needs a good coach

and someone to make sure they are working together. It's the difference between a jam band and an orchestra.

Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 10, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well...not to quibble,

but I think it might be more fair to say it's one of the differences....

by alec on Mar 10, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bulls need a great coach

Celtics, for instance, just need a good coach. Or a caretaker, even.

working together's fine, but a better team has a plan when things aren't working together. Bulls don't, they only had a chance as a top-5 defense and mediocre offense, and they're now neither.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 10, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

with Skiles ...

I don't think the Bulls ever really had a chance, either.

The history of the NBA indicates that to win championship ... it takes a special head coach, with the ability to forge an unique 'Identity' and a 'System of Play' that fits a specific group of elite level players.

As a head coach, Scott Skiles doesn't have this ability.

by khandor on Mar 10, 2008 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

last year's team

was very different than the group of players Chicago has right now ... ie Noah (a 2nd good rebounder/shot-blocker) wasn't there; neither was a multi-dimensional player like Larry Hughes; and, Sefolosha had no clearly defined role.

With the right coach ...

by khandor on Mar 10, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thabo

was pretty serviceable towards the end of last year

by Option27 on Mar 10, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I kinda agree with him

If the Bulls had the "right" team out there and the right coach running things, I would think the Bulls were better than the Pistons too.

by Option27 on Mar 10, 2008 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wait

First you call Noah's optimism 'hilarious', then you responded to your own post saying that you agree with him. I'm looking forward to the diary where you debate against yourself.

by YaoPau on Mar 10, 2008 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's hilarious

Because of it's context

by Option27 on Mar 10, 2008 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

noah's got the type of enthusiasm that

eventual NBA champions are made of.

by khandor on Mar 10, 2008 1:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

It would have been nice to have Tyrus in.

It's one thing if this is all Boylan, but I find it hard to believe this wasn't a mandate from Pax, as well. Fellas, it looks like Ty will be our second "high ceiling project" big man that will be dealt for pennies on the dollar, only to turn into the type of player we'll be looking to somehow acquire later on.

by messwiththebull on Mar 10, 2008 2:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

now

that is a serious problem to be considered.

Chandler ... faux pas #1.

Thomas ... faux pas #2?

Maybe the head honcho has a difficult time assessing correctly the worth of athletically-gifted Bigs ... who are nothing like the 'less-talented' fellas he had to play (and win championships) with in Chicago ... hmmmmm

by khandor on Mar 10, 2008 2:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Or maybe Paxson made the right decision at the

time when he dealt Chandler. He signed Wallace with cap money that would be disappearing after that offseason. Chandler was taking up a sizable portion of cap space himself. He knew Chandler wouldn't develop under Skiles, who wasn't going anywhere at that point. So he dealt Chandler. This time around, there's no cap space to waste on Wallace and Paxson will be looking for a new coach. Chances are, the future development and use of Tyrus and Noah will have some influence on that search. While it's frustrating to see Boylan waste this opportunity to develop them now, let's not read too much into it about Paxson's long term plans.

by snley on Mar 10, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have to read much into it.

Did you ever notice how Pax says things like "We've liked him for a while" when talking about guys like Drew Gooden? Who is this we? I'll tell you who. It's his idiot brother, Jim Paxson, the "consultant". Seriously, was there a worse GM in the league? This is a bit far fetched, I admit, but if Jim has had any input in any of the roster moves over the past two seasons, that would explain a lot.

Tyson may not have panned out in Chicago, or he may have blossomed once Skiles was gone. All I know is that he was sold for pennies on the dollar and it looks like Tyrus will share that fate.

by messwiththebull on Mar 10, 2008 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

An expiring contract isn't pennies on the dollars

in today's NBA. That is a highly valuable commodity. Plus, Paxson apparently tried to send Tyson as part of a package for Garnett before sending him to the Hornets. As he had regressed badly the previous season, keeping Tyson would have been a sizable risk. Getting an expiring contract diminished that risk and would have been a valuable chip in a trade. Unfortunately, by the time teams like the Grizzlies and Timberwolves were ready to deal, PJ Brown's contract had expired. When evaluating a GM's moves, you can't just look at the end result. You have to look at the reasoning that went into it. While the essential exchange of Wallace for Tyson looks bad now, who's to say it would have worked out better keeping Tyson?

by snley on Mar 11, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Paxson was on Waddle & Silvy this morning

He said he traded Ben Wallace and Joe Smith to open up more playing time for his young bigs. But he also said all playing time should be earned, and it doesn't send the right message to just give players playing time without them earning it.

Fair enough. But then you should have suspended Tyrus three games for missing practice. Tyrus made a mistake, and he paid the price that you decided. If you believed in the punishment you gave him, then you should've put him back into the normal rotation against the Pistons.

by YaoPau on Mar 10, 2008 2:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, and Drew Gooden really earned his minutes

They couldn't wait to make him a starter. Give me a break. What a bunch of bullshit.

by RogersPark Kris on Mar 10, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

then what did Gooden earn?

All Boylan said when giving Gooden the starting spot was 'it's time'.

The inane quotes would stay, but the end result would be better if they actually realized that they yanked Thomas out of the starting lineup undeservedly twice, so with no reward for good play why punish bad play?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 10, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He was in the normal rotation

He just came out when he had several me-first possessions. Waiving everyone off, not looking to pass when he obviously should, etc.

Now I understand the rationale when guys say "yeah, sure, he played like a jackass, so take him out of the game, but put him back in after you teach him the lesson".

But I don't so much agree with it. Taken out of context, sure that sounds appropriate. But given that these were his first moments back on the court after basically walking out on his teammates, it's pretty irritating.

by Sports2 on Mar 10, 2008 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's what bugged me about it too.

It goes to the heart of problem which is the fact that nobody seems to be working towards the common goal of winning the game, let alone making the playoffs.

Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 10, 2008 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What in God's name is this

ridiculous, quixotic, antiquated obssession with "sending the right message"?

Who cares about sending the right message? Who cares about forging the character of young men? Who cares about molding good citizens? This isn't college. The isn't the Socratic Academy described in the frickin' Republic. Our aim here isn't to promote absolute justice. That is NOT the function of an motherf*** NBA team. The function of an NBA team IS TO WIN GAMES AND CHAMPIONSHIPS.

Put the best goddamn players on the floor and let them play. Period. Put the most talented, most gifted, most athletic, most promising players out on the motherf*** court and then...just...sit...down...and...shut...the...hell...up. It isn't that difficult. No other franchise in the NBA so thoroughly misses this basic point. It doesn't have to be as complicated and convoluted as the Bulls make it. They've turned algebra into calculus.

And make no mistake about it, they can claim ad naseum that the unnecessary complication is driven by altruistic aspirations like instilling discipline or maximizing potential, but that is a blatant pretext. The odd rotations and the emphasis on superfluous notions like accountability are a function of ego. The Bulls' coaches and the Bulls' management do not like the fact that certain young players are somewhat arrogant and presumptuous, so they punish those players. They grind them down like a whetstone until there is nothing left but bitterness, insecurity, and resentment. The franchise is hell bent on engaging in power struggles with its best players.

I don't care about sending the right message. I care about winning games. Play the best players, not the nicest ones, not the most deferential ones, not ones that Boylan likes.

Imagine if other professions employed the approach the Bulls are taking.

"Mr. Smith, we understand you have to have triple bypass surgery. And, in fact, we have a great surgeon on our staff here. However, he's missed some administrative meetings lately. Got a bit of an ego, that one. We feel that letting him perform this glamorous surgery without finishing his ministerial tasks would just, well, send the wrong message to the rest of the hospital. So we're gonna let a less talented surgeon do the operation, OK? Great. Thanks."

What a stupid management philosophy.

It drives me INSANE. The whole notion of accountability and responsibility and sending messages is completely irrelevant. To borrow a term from the world of corporations, it's ultra vires. It lies entirely outside the bounds of what the franchise is supposed to do: WIN GAMES.

Paxson, you are an NBA GM, not an Eagle Scout or a life coach.

Rant over.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 10, 2008 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the worst part

is that Paxson confused the idea of 'good citizens' and 'good basketball teammates'. They are not always in tandem although both grouped in Pax-speak as 'character'.

So while the Bulls guys may not be in the police blotter, they've also quit on two coaches. So in reality (and in the context of what actually matters in terms of team-building), they don't have good character at all.

Which is fine, this is the NBA. But don't draft and keep (and play) players based on a criteria that they don't even have.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 10, 2008 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So the problem now is trusting Pax

to figure out who's a keeper and who's not, both basketball-wise and "character"-wise.

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 10, 2008 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd play it safe

and keep the better basketball players, since it's more likely that winning breeds character, and not vice versa.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 10, 2008 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I sent Sam Smith

an email and he answered back right away. It wasn't really a question more of a rant.

ME: I was very disturbed by the little shouting match in the Pistons game between Joakim Noah and Jim Boylan. Noah knew he had made a mistake and admitted it on his way to the bench during a timeout. Boylan was at half court yelling at Noah. It just seems to me that Boylan could have accomplished a lot more if he had acknowledged that Noah knew he made an error and told him how he could do better next time. He could do the same with Tyrus instead of yanking him and leaving him sit for huge amounts of time. I have no idea what Boylan is trying to prove to Hinrich by leaving him on the bench for long periods of time but it's getting old.

I hope Boylan will not be back next year and a lot of people agree with me.

SAM: yes, you are in the majority on that one

by sue369 on Mar 10, 2008 3:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Can reporters listen to the

"wired" recordings the NBA is producing for ESPN, ABC and TNT? They're allowed to broadcast clips during the games, but do they record everything the coaches say?

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 10, 2008 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's a good

question. Shot him an email and ask him.

by sue369 on Mar 10, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

shot=shoot

by sue369 on Mar 10, 2008 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There's an agreement with the coaches that the TV

networks must use discretion when airing "wired" remarks. In other words, the TV networks are supposed to make sure the coaches don't embarrass themselves. I'm sure that that would go for what, if anything, is released to print media as well. As coaches would have no control over what is on/off record, I'm sure any recordings are never made available.

by snley on Mar 10, 2008 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So Duhon has been fined a second time

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/fullcourtpress/2008/03/chris-duhon-fin.html

This time for his comments regarding missing the shoot-around. Apparently still not suspended (at least technically and officially suspended), though.

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 10, 2008 3:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Holy Jesus Paxson!

Stop worrying about policing the words and actions of your players. Start worrying about winning games.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 10, 2008 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

PS, I think DU should say something

flippant again, so that Paxson can fine him for scoffing at a fine that was itself levied because he scorned yet another, even earlier fine.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 10, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The dunk contest fine...

...should have tipped us all off. IIRC, some of us thought it was pretty effin' stupid but no one really saw it as that big of a deal. It was merely foreshadowing.

Heh. Maybe Deng and Gordon turned down the money because, despite being good people, they thought they should XXXX amount more dollars to put up with it.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 10, 2008 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh yeah...

...just to remind anyone: $10,000 fine for saying, "I'm only doing the slam dunk contest for money." Yeah, $10,000 fine for that. Disrespecting the game or something. Seriously. That's about as ridiculous as it gets, isn't it?

Yet, Thomas is the immature one, yeah?

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 10, 2008 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I always thought it was a marketing ploy.

That is, Paxson recognized that the majority of season ticket holders (and the majority of the fanbase) were paunchy, white, middle aged suburbanites driving Lexus SUV's who were pathologically afraid of dreads, cornrows, rap, tats, and anything with a thudding baseline. Hence, I thought, he paid lip service to notions like character and respect to the game.

However, it now appears that Paxson truly believes his own advertising gimmick.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 10, 2008 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

respect OF the game

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 10, 2008 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He should be suspended too.

That's what they did to Tyrus. And "I haven't been playing a lot anyway." is a lame ass excuse.

by RogersPark Kris on Mar 10, 2008 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I do realize many people in here prefer to

skip the "psychobabble" - but it's really no wonder the guys on the team look emotionally uninvested in finishing the season. I've been in bad work environments before where people got jerked around by management, and the psychological response has tended to be people going through the motions. Unfortunately, with suspending Tyrus but not Du I think they run the risk of further losing Ty, and with completely cutting Du's minutes after he played hurt earlier they have obviously lost Du. Why the hell should they care if the organization treats them like crap?

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 10, 2008 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

attn team captain

also from Duke.

In Dinka if you have to.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 10, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe Duhon told his mates

"See you when Duke wins". They lost so he missed his wake up call.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 10, 2008 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Anybody with me?

I have this strange feeling that Bulls are giving up on Tryus. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets moved in the off-season. This is way I say this. When you look at Paxson and how he likes to put a team together... Noah fits that profile. So if that's the case then the Bulls have their future PF. So when you think about it I can imagine if they don't move Tryus before free agency his asking price is going to be stupid dollars and we all know the Bulls aren't going to pay him big money.

What do you guys think?

by Takeaseat on Mar 10, 2008 6:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

If TT continues to play like he did last night

then I wouldn't be surprised. Otherwise, no, they haven't given up on him yet.

Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 10, 2008 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Boylan has given up on him

I doubt Paxson has. They still own Tyrus 2 more years if they choose. I'm sure Paxson wants to see what the next coach can do with Tyrus before he officially gives up on him.

Paxson did it with Tyson under Skiles. At that time, Paxson felt Skiles would be here long term and realized that relationship wouldn't work so that;s when he gave up on him.

Expect the same from Paxson and how the next coach uses Tyrus

by Option27 on Mar 10, 2008 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are absolutely right!!

Like I said, we're gonna trade him for 2 X-Large Home Run Inn pizzas and an orange 2 liter pop.

Then he's gonna go somewhere where the organization lets him play through the learning curve, build his confidence and enable him to quit lookin' over his shoulder for the quick hook and he'll end up an 18pt, 10rbd, 3blk guy in about two seasons.

We'll sign Kwame Brown or something because he's a big body. I HATE how the Bulls treat Thomas. I wouldn't have gone to practice either...LOL.

by lexdiamonds0730 on Mar 10, 2008 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have no faith in Paxson.

Boylan will be back, Ty will be packaged in a deal over the summer that brings the Bulls a good guy like Nick Collison. Remember, this is the same guy who threw A-Drain a multi-year deal knowing the guy couldn't play a lick and would only steal minutes, because he was a good locker room guy. A multi-year deal for a guy he knew would play 4 minutes a game.

by messwiththebull on Mar 10, 2008 7:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs