Pissed Pax Comments on Michael Heisley

by Sports2 on Feb 5, 2008 1:06 PM CST Comment 81 comments

[From the Diaries.

Yes, there are reasons to not want to pay Pau Gasol max money. That said, I do have a problem with the 'no luxury tax, not ever' edict that I still want to believe isn't true, but gains more supporting evidence each week. Also, it bothers me that Pax comments on the ethics over what other people say, or (like in the Kobe non-deal) how rumors are perpetuated by the media. You're the GM of the Chicago Bulls for chrissakes, it's part of the job (that you should be doing). -Matt]

The article by John Jackson says Pax "didn't have much of a reaction":

Bulls general manager John Paxson didn't have much of a reaction to Heisley's comments.

''I don't feel I need to comment on what another team's owner is saying about anything,'' Paxson said. ''I also would never make any statement about how another team should conduct their business.''

Heh, that's more of a reaction than he's had to almost everything else this year.

Seriously, I thought it was extremely unusual for Heisley to comment on the Bulls in the manner he did, but that doesn't mean I've got much in the way of sympathy for how Pax and Jerry have run the show the way Sam Smith seems to.

Smith's mailbag has some classic apologia for the Bulls, accusing fans of wanting "a new toy" that the Bulls won't pay for. What the hell. Never mind the fans have made the Bulls the most profitable franchise in the league by a substantial margin.

Of course, much of that profitability was built on the illusion they'd bust their ass to make a winner. It's funny Smith throws out the new toy quip at the same time he points out Bulls fans are angrier than he's ever seen them.

Profitability is built on enthusiasm and thinking you have a chance to go somewhere.

My response is that the Bulls likely get a couple hundred bucks less profitable next year when I shell out for one or two less games attended and don't bother with the league pass.

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ooh

You'll show them.

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Feb 5, 2008 1:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I am wondering if

Heisley is getting some heat from his own fans and media on such a lop-sided trade and is trying to explain why he didn't deal with the Bulls in order to portray his own actions in as good of light as he can make it. It is so unusual for someone like him to make a statement like he did, but at the same time it was extremely unusual for a team to give up a top player for pretty much nothing as well. Is he getting heat on this?

by cranscape on Feb 5, 2008 1:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

'heat'

implies people care in Memphis. And most of them don't, or didn't like Pau, or realize that salary dumping isn't the worst thing in the world.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 5, 2008 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I haven't read the lates Memphis reactions

but Heisley has been viewed as a buffoonish character running the Grizz into the gound for a while. The Cardinal contract anecdote, the Gasol trade demand leak, and Heisley's claim that he pulled the trigger on the deal make him look like a clueless, meddlesome owner. He's been trying to sell the team too.

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Feb 5, 2008 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

and why cancel league pass?

that's the only way I can watch good basketball. Lakers-Nets tonight!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 5, 2008 1:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Meh, most of the good games are on TBS or ESPN

or ABC.

And anyway, it's about time to start really watching college games to start scouting the next great thing available with the #10 or whatever we end up with.

by Sports2 on Feb 5, 2008 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bulls basketball is as bad as I can stand

college games: yuck.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 5, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

hey

what's even worse - going to a high school game. I swore I'd never do that again, but went and saw a friends kid play the other night. Nightmare time.

by KT on Feb 5, 2008 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ho-ho, your pair bets my ace high

I've been going to middle school games that feature final scores in the 11-10 range.

"No, no. Stop talking to me. Someone might notice," Paxson squeaked.

by alec on Feb 5, 2008 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

...beats me.

"No, no. Stop talking to me. Someone might notice," Paxson squeaked.

by alec on Feb 5, 2008 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's a non-useful comment

I don't expect anyone notices what one person does, but any business is pretty stupid if it doesn't pay attention when it's customers are pissed.

And if even hard-core fans like me, who spends a lot of time on the Bulls, are considering spending less, what's the average casual fan doing? What's the small business doing that wanted season tickets because it wanted to be on the ground floor for a title run doing?

There's lots of choices out there for people to spend their money on. How many people here have made comments about how unwatchable these twits have often been this year? And we're watching for freaking free.

The point isn't that everyone is suddenly going to give up on the Bulls, but the Bulls have enjoyed a tremendous amount of loyalty and faith from their fans, and I think there's a legitimate sense this season that this loyalty and faith has been misplaced.

And yeah, that's a big deal. Things have been good for the Bulls, but things can go south and the Bulls can easily be just another franchise. Here in Indiana, where people live and die basketball and the Pacers were once a hot ticket you can't find anyone with the tiniest bit of enthusiasm for these guys. They hate the Pacers here. It's literally hard to get people to go to games for free. Pacers gear gets scoffs of derision from people if it's offered or seen. A couple of years of sucking ass, another bad personnel decision or two, and that's your Chicago Bulls.

by Sports2 on Feb 5, 2008 1:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

and a tenth of the population

(or whatever the difference is)

I'm also (almost certainly) not re-upping my 11-game package next year. But it'll be a long long time before anything gets too bad in terms of support, and it'd take a lot of losing that even in my most cynical moments I don't think they'll have.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 5, 2008 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sports2 will lead you to freedom!

FREEDOM!

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Feb 5, 2008 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sports2 is not leading you to anything.

Sports2 is merely saying what's true of Sports2 and what he predicts is true of others. At the margin, things will start slipping. If uncorrected, it'll be more noticeable in a couple years, but it's starting now. And comments about the appropriateness of other owners' comments or what greedy, spoiled kids us fans are will seem even more ridiculous than they do now.

Even 5-10% of a very large number of folks spending a couple hundred bucks a pop is a substantial amount of money, even for an NBA team. Probably the difference between being one of the most profitable NBA teams and being middle of the road.

Which is sort of the point. The Bulls seem very content to head back to middle-of-the-road. That's a somewhat profitable proposition for a business, sure. But it's not the LA Lakers either.

by Sports2 on Feb 5, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

uh-huh

Bad team = less ticket buyers. I already mocked the obviousness of that conclusion/threat/rant.

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Feb 5, 2008 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Paxson is taking the heat but Heisley lit the fire

by not making a deal last year. In John Jackson's article (see Matt's link) Heisley looks like a fool losing out on Noah and TT.

Grizzlies management is under fire for the Gasol deal because the local fans and media know the Bulls made a better offer a year ago.

Although the Bulls refused to give up Luol Deng or Ben Gordon, they offered a package of young players that included Tyrus Thomas, their first-round pick in 2007 (which turned into Joakim Noah) and P.J. Brown's expiring $8.5 million contract. But Heisley wasn't interested in dealing Gasol.

I think we would have given up too much for Gasol last year.

by chgobr on Feb 5, 2008 1:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

and don't forget West

...Jerry was GM'ing then, and I think he wanted more. Read somewhere about him grumbling that there were "Nothing but low-ball offers" for Gasol, so he stood pat.

Just like w/ Garnett, McHale, & Ainge the previous year, a team rebuffs a fair Bulls offer to hold onto someone too long, then deals the following year to a different GM (who then seems like a genius).

by T Maple on Feb 5, 2008 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe Pax should worry more about improving his

team, and less about what other teams' owners say. He's great at being Mr. Manners, but that isn't his job. People can talk about what a pathetic franchise Memphis is, but the Bulls haven't been much better than Memphis this year.

And for God's sake, if Reinsdorf isn't going to pay the luxury tax (and he obviously isn't), why the fuck did Paxson give Nocioni a 5-year contract?

by Big D on Feb 5, 2008 1:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Mr. Manners?

That reminds me we recently passed the two year anniversary of Pax's busting into the officials' locker room room and engaging him in a profanity-laced tirade that got him a $15k fine. Good times :D

by Sports2 on Feb 5, 2008 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Waaaaiiitt a tick...

Didn't everyone just jump on Paxson for not making this deal? Now people are jumping on Heisley? Didn't I take care of this?

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 5, 2008 1:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Too much for Gasol?

How is giving up PJ Brown, no longer playing for the team, Tyrus who struggles to get on the court and the #9 pick( without knowing who was available) too much for Gasol.

I know Memphis turned it down but if you are unwilling to trade spare parts and prospects then how can you ever make a deal (without trading with NY)

by bullschwaah on Feb 5, 2008 1:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

If they're not even going to play Tyrus, then fucking trade him and get something for him while he still has value. He can't even get off the bench for a bad team, so in theory, why would anyone else want him? Unless they think the Bulls are stupid, that is. Obviously, the best solution would be to actually play him, but I guess his inexperience might ruin the Bulls championship hopes this season or something, since they're playing so great.

by Big D on Feb 5, 2008 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Technically,

we didn't know it was the 9th pick yet - Knicks pulled up several spots at the close of the season, but pre-trade deadline it was still a good to very good shot at a top 2 pick in the Oden-Durant sweepstakes.

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Feb 5, 2008 6:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good point, but...

wasn't it top 3 protected?

by NBA Observer on Feb 5, 2008 6:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bulls just had option to swap with Knicks

which I'm almost positive was not top-3 protected. I have no idea what the Bulls did (or even could have done under NBA rules) with the pick in the offer to the Griz.

I think I remember reading about some issues with it being the right to swap instead of an outright owned pick.

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Feb 5, 2008 6:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

no it wasn't protected.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Feb 6, 2008 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And thanks for the bump Matt!

by Sports2 on Feb 5, 2008 2:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I doubt they care.

There will be someone else ready to spend their money on the ticket package you give up. Reminds me of little kids playing and one doesn't get his way so he takes his ball and goes home. Yep, that'll show them.

Never went to church camp but I did go to Girl Scout camp. If you ever need help making a campfire I'm your girl. :P

by sue369 on Feb 5, 2008 2:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

out of the seats and onto the blog to bitch

woo woo!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 5, 2008 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ronnie?

Never went to church camp but I did go to Girl Scout camp. If you ever need help making a campfire I'm your girl. :P

by sue369 on Feb 5, 2008 2:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm guessing this is Paxson, Matt?

Another prominent GM said his owner vetoed any trade that would've pushed his team into luxury-tax territory.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 5, 2008 2:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Whoops!

Read the team specifics part. Ford said explicitly that Reinsdorf told Paxson he's not paying the tax. That's a whole new ballgame. (Obviously)

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 5, 2008 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps for us

not for Pax, who has certainly had a good idea of this for quite a while decided the way to go was to eliminate most of the flexibility he had to work with anyway.

Plus, I still can't believe there's not a single taker out there for Smith or Noc for an expiring deal. I think if the Bulls looked, they could have found that and turned it around to the Griz.

I can't imagine why the Griz wouldn't give the Bulls the opportunity to find a deal like that, at least.

by Sports2 on Feb 5, 2008 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

while i agree with you

that smith and noc could net an expiring deal, this assumes that memphis knows what they're doing. everything in heisley and wallaces careers show that they have little to no clue on how to run a franchise.

by Mike C on Feb 5, 2008 4:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If you don't want to pay the luxury tax then why

pay the Corpse $15.5 mil? You keep Chandler, take Nazr M or Przybilla as the free agent, and you got a long, decent front line that is relatively inexpensive. I would have been OK not taking Nazr or Przybilla and rolling over the under cap for one year or not using it. Why spend so much cap space on a flawed forward if you don't want to go into the luxury tax?

by chgobr on Feb 5, 2008 2:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry - - I know we have been through this before

but I am emotionally blocked/stuck on this issue.

by chgobr on Feb 5, 2008 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Normally, I am loathe to do this,

but I'm going to engage in a little guess-work.

My guess is that Reinsdorf trusts Paxson's judgement. This means that the reason he was willing to sign-off on the Wallace deal was that Paxson was confident that it could put the team over the top, and he was able to communicate that confidence to Reinsdorf.

This makes the team's unwillingness to go after Gasol quite telling. To me it says that Paxson, like Skiles before him, has lost confidence in his creation. When it came time to go into the red to sign Gasol, he couldn't muster enough personal confidence in the outcome of the deal to win over Reinsdorf.

"No, no. Stop talking to me. Someone might notice," Paxson squeaked.

by alec on Feb 5, 2008 2:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wallace was Reinsdorf's deal

...several MSM writers (Bucher of ESPN) have said that Wallace was more of a deal between Reinsdorf and Big Bum's agent Arn Tellem. If that's the case, We'll never know how on board Pax was with the deal.

"You guys won today. You guys won yesterday, so that's two in a row. If you win again tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. IT HAS HAPPENED BEFORE."

by Jobu on Feb 5, 2008 3:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I've read that

several places too.

Never went to church camp but I did go to Girl Scout camp. If you ever need help making a campfire I'm your girl. :P

by sue369 on Feb 5, 2008 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Pax and Skiles

Traveled to Detroit to woo Ben Wallace.

Are you suggesting that they were just following orders from Reinsdorf and thus were not really interested in signing Ben Wallace? Or is it just the final contract numbers that Paxson and Skiles were not on board for?

by NBA Observer on Feb 5, 2008 4:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, I'm not fully buying it

that Reinsdorf signed Wallace.

It also is a damning implication of Pax that he has no power as GM. That kind of stuff is only reserved for the coach!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 5, 2008 4:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Pax is making himself sound like a puppet

Does he think for himself or not? Is he going to tell us the truth or not? What's he worried about?

Reinsdorf is practically mute. Paxson knows that. So we pretty much know where he stands on the luxury tax, making the playoffs, and the direction of the team. Jerry wants money through more home games. This happens by making the playoffs. Anything beyond a first round berth is just icing on the cake.

by NBA Observer on Feb 5, 2008 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I know this sounds like criticizing after the fact

but I was shocked when we signed Wallace. I thought he looked horrble his last year in Detroit, including the playoffs. I agree some combination of Reinsdorf/Paxson thought the Corpse would take us to the next level. If you watched him play that last year I don't know how you could have come to that conclusion.

by chgobr on Feb 5, 2008 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

From what I read

Pax didn't want him but Reinsdorf did. Now we see why Pax didn't want him and tried to get rid of him.

Never went to church camp but I did go to Girl Scout camp. If you ever need help making a campfire I'm your girl. :P

by sue369 on Feb 5, 2008 3:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sue - I have read that also.

This is why I am reluctant to rip Paxson. You do not know what limitations he is under. In general he has done a good job. This year has been the first really disappointing year we have had where we have not met expectations. Granted expectations were pretty low the first few years.

by chgobr on Feb 5, 2008 3:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

They have

no place to go but up next year.

Never went to church camp but I did go to Girl Scout camp. If you ever need help making a campfire I'm your girl. :P

by sue369 on Feb 5, 2008 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Pax will say anything

To get peeps off his ass.

He shoulda gone to Jerry like he did about Eddie Robinson and push to pay some outta his pockets to make our situation a little bit better

by Option27 on Feb 5, 2008 2:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

A related question

Also, has anyone listened to all of the recent Pax interviews? There was one with Mike North and one on ESPN1000. I believe in one of those he said he put together trades only to have them rejected by ownership. Maybe he was referring to this situation with Gasol?

I really should have posted about it because it seemed a real slip for the GM to say he went to the owner with a trade he endorsed, only to have it rejected. Does anyone else remember this, and if so, can they point me in the right direction about where and when it was said? I looked around and couldn't find any obvious reference to it.

by Sports2 on Feb 5, 2008 4:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I heard that interview

the link was posted here (by me!).

I got the impression when he said the trade was rejected by ownership, he didn't mean by his ownership, but by the other team's ownership.
Heisley could have easily rejected a trade for Gasol that didn't put the Bulls into Lux tax territory. Chad Ford's insider piece today quoted a GM (non Pax from the implication) that had talked with Wallace two weeks before the trade, and said the talks didn't go anywhere because Wallace wanted too much. If he'd known the price had changed, he'd have gotten back to Wallace.

by KT on Feb 5, 2008 6:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Paxson's rules for integrity

essentially wall himself into a corner as a GM. It's hard to be flexible at all when you won't negotiate contract extensions during a season. This is often the best time to ink a below market value contract.

Anyone think signing Noc to an extension during last season would have yielded a 8.5 mil per contract over five years?

As much as like a guy to maintain integrity, the league is a controlled marketplace. It isn't free at all. There are rules to follow, hoops to jump through and stones you must cast if you want to carve out a niche for winning. Being a big market team, with a big market profit, and an owner that won't go over the salary cap, it's one more additional constraint tax on Paxson's ability to improve the team.

The only way Reinsdorf agrees to go over the salary cap is if it is to bring in a player that will generate an ADDITIONAL 20 mil in revenue. That could be Kobe, Lebron, Yao, or maybe even Yi, but few other players and certainly not Pau Gasol.

Jerry likes winning, but he likes money more than winning. The luxury tax is a serious financial drain, but it's obvious that it's not doing what it was intended to do. Small market teams still suck at breaking even even with winning records.

by NBA Observer on Feb 5, 2008 4:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

not sure about Noc

but the guys on rookie contracts (Deng, Gordon) can only negotiate for extensions at certain times, and not during this season.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 5, 2008 4:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

they couldn't sign

Noce to an extension early because they signed him as a free agent. If they had drafted him, it would have been different.

by KT on Feb 5, 2008 5:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Slightly off-topic, but not worth it's

own thread.

Here is an article from Aschburner at CNNSI lambasting Ben Wallace:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/steve_aschburner/02/05/wallace.bulls/index.html

I didn't see it posted elsewhere, but my apologies if it is old news.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 5, 2008 5:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

GREAT POST - deserving of a new diary

The multi-dimensional disaster of the Corpse's impact on the Bulls is beautifully described in this article.

by chgobr on Feb 5, 2008 6:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The List

Does anyone have a list of teams in the luxury tax zone so we can see what we are competing with?

by Stay Chisel on Feb 5, 2008 5:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

some links

Player salaries and team payrolls.
http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

The NBA salary cap
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Salary_Cap

Salary Cap is 55.63 million for 07-08. The luxury tax is a dollar to the NBA for every dollar over the salary cap.

by NBA Observer on Feb 5, 2008 6:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

don't confuse the cap with the tax threshold

first the wrong info on extensions now this. Stick to box-outs :-p

Read. learn. love.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 5, 2008 6:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Reinsdorf

is most certainly the chairman of the board. I believe Krumbs had a lot more control than Pax, but remember back when it came time to make decisions on Pip, MJ, Grant, Phil, etc? Reinsdorf was very front and center. In fact, he went up about 50 notches in my eyes when he came through for MJ with the biggest contract in sports, as I recall, for his last 2 years.
Just a footnote on Gasol. A caller on LA radio noted the coincidence of Jerry West being at the Laker game that night. Broker/bagman?
I still like what Pax has tried to do. I'm more prone to call out the players for sabotaging it, BW at the head of the list. The chemistry was there; now it's gone. It's not unfixable, but it doesn't look like getting out of Wallace's deal will be easy. The other names tossed around seem like they bring the same kind of frustration TT does; a lot of talent but lacking something. There's a unique opportunity in a couple of years. Build a team that LeBron or Bosh or a healthy Wade will want to come to in two years. Fits right in w developing Noah, TT and whoever else should be part of it, and dump the rest. Tanking this year and next (if that's the best course) to position for a real title contender in two years is the most palatable option I see for this group. They're practically tanking while trying to make a run for the playoffs!

by California Al on Feb 5, 2008 6:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Your buddy

Sam was on CTL tonight and said it would have ended up costing (the luxury tax, etc.) the Bulls 25 million to get Gasol. The show will be rerun at 1:30 a.m. if you want to see it.

Never went to church camp but I did go to Girl Scout camp. If you ever need help making a campfire I'm your girl. :P

by sue369 on Feb 5, 2008 6:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Does that number include

the presumptive signings of Deng and Gordon to $10 million contracts?

"No, no. Stop talking to me. Someone might notice," Paxson squeaked.

by alec on Feb 5, 2008 6:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I would say no

It's not all luxury tax, I think that's just a sloppy way of stating the entire cost.

Most of the salary for PJ would be over the cap , so it's his salary doubled which is 16 mill. When you're over the tax, you then lose out on thos checks James Dolan signs for all the teams in the league, and there would be the cost of Gasol himself, and how much his salary puts the Bulls over the cap in future years.

by KT on Feb 5, 2008 6:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs