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Bulls escape with win, Boylan escapes with my sanity

Blogabull_s_tiny by your friendly BullsBlogger on in News Comment 188 comments

That was a must-win tonight, if you consider the playoff 'push' worth pursuing (and I do, cause...why not?). Philly and Atlanta won, and the Bulls were against an inferior team that they maddeningly let hang around for 3 quarters.

But they did pull out the win, and while nobody played exceptional there were some decent performances. Larry Hughes had 29 points and rescued the ice-cold Ben Gordon (in the 4th quarter especially, isn't it a treat to have another actual willing scorer on the team?). Progressively each game, there's more evidence that Hughes' rep for bad shot selection will eventually catch up with him. Luckily for the Bulls, tonight he was making some ill-advised jumpers (and leaners), and went to the line 10 times. For his part, Gordon complemented him (when not making some awful shot-selection decisions himself) by being quite the playmaker in the 4th, finishing with 6 assists. I thought Nocioni did a good job in a limited role, and Deng looks almost back, just without his pet mid-range jump shot. 

Now to Boylan, who is doing an overall average job but is developing some bad habits with his new toybox. One is pulling Tyrus Thomas first in each half, 7 minutes into the first, and 4 minutes into the 2nd. Another is pulling Noah when the other team goes 'small'. Confusing the idea of going small, which isn't to 'go short' but to 'go quick'. Noah is an ideal center against a small-ball lineup, big enough to exploit it on the glass, yet agile enough to chase around his opponents when they space the floor. But perhaps this isn't an indictment of either Thomas or Noah, it's merely Boylan finding excuses to get Drew Gooden into the game. He actually finished with only 25 (compared to Noah's 26) minutes, but played 18 minutes in the 2nd half.

No doubt that he helped down the stretch, but it's a disturbing trend that this team should be avoiding: sticking with the 'trusted' instead of Thomas and Noah, who have been playing so well (and are so important long-term) they should be not only the starting but the closing frontcourt most games. If they look like they're having an off night (or are in foul trouble, and neither was the case tonight), then playing Gooden is more productive than doing the same with Ben Wallace, but it's looking more and more like Gooden's the default option as the game goes on, and I'm not liking it.

Other negatives included Hinrich, who was pulled a couple possessions in the 2nd half by and apparently angered Boylan and never returned. Thabo had his worst game in a while, but I must say that jump shot is looking better. Aaron Gray was useless in his 7 minutes, and had no business being out there against the Pacers space-and-chuck lineup.

But it was the end of a road trip and the win was likely going to be tough. Now there's another very winnable contest Friday (at home against the banged-up Wiz) before the showdown with our old friend Ben Wallace and the Cavaliers. So far I'm really enjoying what Gooden and Hughes bring to the team, I just want Boylan to show me a little less of it.

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while hughes is still settling
for too many jumpers and leaners, he is at least showing inklings of returning to the player he was in washington.  10 free throws is a great sign (although i think 8 were in the 1st half), and we can't realistically expect him to immediately abandon the bad habits he developed over 2+ seasons in cleveland.  i'll take solace in the fact that larry has at least a chance of resembling his old self.

by Mike C on Feb 27, 2008 10:55 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I was wondering what his halftime splits were
He was going to the line a lot in the first. Bulls got in the penalty early in the 4th and didn't take advantage of it.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 27, 2008 11:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Or
Bulls got in the penalty early in the 4th and BEN GORDON didn't take advantage of it.

Can he get to the free throw line or what?  Even Travis Deiner was getting to the line.

I was surprised with Ben's ball handling in the 4th.  I was expecting more turnovers.  He didn't have that many - 3 for the game - but he still seemed unsure of what to do with the ball getting pressed out 8 feet beyond the arc by the Pacers big trailing the screening Bulls player.

When that perimeter screen comes Ben has to get better at either dribbling to juke his man or faster to blow right past him.

Heck, even Mike Dunleavey was living at the line in the 4th quarter.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 8:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah
he had 16!

hughes should have taken more advantage too.  most of his free throws were in the first half (he got fouled on like 3 consecutive plays including that clear path diener foul)...

but that's one thing.  they NEVER take advantage of being in the penalty.  i've complained about that before.

i'm surprised the free throw difference was only 6.  seemed like they were getting to the line a lot.

by Jaina on Feb 28, 2008 9:02 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Perimeter Screens
I agree with you, but the whole team needs a tutorial on running perimeter screen rolls.  Either the guard comes off it before the big even sets the screen (leaving them vulnerable to my favorite offensive foul call thirty feet from the basket) or the bigs slip the screen (Noc), never getting a body on anyone.  Someone needs to remind the Bulls that screens are effective only when you actually make contact with somebody, forcing them to show hard or switch.

by Gene Banks on Feb 28, 2008 9:31 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds dead on.
Though the use of chuckers could have been avoided.

by Kemp on Feb 27, 2008 11:15 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Gooden and Hughes
Lookin pretty good, quite the upgrade. They both did a great job tonight, GREAT trade for us for the future and VERy good trade for us for this year. Both did a great job!

A guy that can create his own shots and make plays for teammates with his passing, gets to the foul line, good slasher, big guard, very good defender, good scorer

And a guy that can score inside, has to be guarded, you can post him up (First real post option we have had in 5 years), very good rebounder on both ends, and a very good option to run pick and roll with, athletic true power forward, solid passer from inside and he can get to the line himself..... unlike Big Ben, you have to guard him inside and he's a true post-up and pick/roll option that can score in all those ways. That opens up alot for our other talent, especially when compared to Big Ben.

Those were two big needs for us. That's a helluva acquisition both in their 20's in return for our two oldest players that had no longterm plans with us, we got much better for the future with that move and alot better for the rest of this year as well. VERY NICE TO SEE!

IM PERSONALLY LOVING THE ROTATION! TY AND NOAH GET THEIR MINUTES TO DEVELOP, AND WE'RE PLAYING THE BEST PLAYERS TO CLOSE IN ORDER tO wiN! Great job!

by Deng is the next Bull superstar on Feb 27, 2008 11:32 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

really?
You've only said it 3 times already.

Don't make it a habit, caps-guy.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 28, 2008 9:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

A little support
Because you won't get a lot in this blog, you know that.

Yes, the team responded and the minutes given to each guy are reasonable. No need to bash on anybody since they all were decent. Just remember they were the Pacers -who seem to have a secret recipe to blow games in the 4th quarter. And the key presences were Larry -clawing back in the 3rd quarter after the Pacers made a run- and Noce -pulling away in the 4th quarter.

by Sky on Feb 28, 2008 9:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

My boy Deng
Deng looked very good tonight too, he did a great job. Lookin like my boy from last season, the bulls been looking very good in the last 3 games. Cant wait to see it continue, we have a hell of a 9 man rotation with Hinrich, Deng, Gordon, Tyrus, Gooden, Thabo, Nocioni, Hughes and Noah. Good stuff, very deep, everyone should have a role, great bench, everyone ican score and can defend...... VERY NICE!!! Now lets beat out NJ, Atlanta, and Philly and get this 7 seed..... or better yet lets get the 6 seed if Caron Butler and Gilbert Arenas dont get back for Washington soon!!!! AWESOME STUFF! GO BULLS, IM VERY OPTIMISTIC!!!!!

by Deng is the next Bull superstar on Feb 27, 2008 11:33 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Getting there
He still looks a little lost sometimes. But when he came in the 4th qtr (after the people's fave fouled twice in a minute and Indiana was putting a comeback) he made the shots we badly needed -and Ben wasn't making. Interesting he shared minutes with Noce and they both looked good down the stretch. Competition seems to work for these two.

by Sky on Feb 28, 2008 9:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I believe Deng's patented pull-up
jumper has become just too predictable. I've seen this in at least the last two games. He's tall enough that it doesn't get blocked, but defenders end up face-guarding him and/or effectively contesting the shot, because they know it's coming.

He needs to change it up a bit. I've seen him occasionally drive it all the way to the hole, but I haven't seen him try the tear drop runner in those situations.

He's getting there, but he's not quite back yet. And he needs to show us more--more production, more versatility, more spectacular plays, everything--if he ever is going to break through to that next level.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Feb 28, 2008 10:32 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Are you correcting for the achilles tendonitis?
This is still an issue for Luol.  It will continue to be an issue.  He's not going to rim after the pump fake that makes his primary defender fly past him.  It's a sign that he's unwilling to attack the basket if there are opponents in the paint.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 10:47 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Shouldn't have been so close
I was happy that Hughes got off tonight, but there's no way they should have been down 11 to that team in the first place.  I had the great pleasure of seeing them live at the half empty Conseco Fieldhouse - their body language throughout much of the game was listless.  Lazy fouls, poor closeouts, no ball movement on offense.

Those flaws were covered up by Hughes' scoring, but will haunt them when he's not hot.  When Gooden was out there, they didn't get him the ball at all on the block, preferring to have BG and Larry dribble out the shot clock.  Only in the 4th quarter did Ben start to penetrate and find cutters.  Of course, if Deng can cut on the baseline without the ball, why can't Tyrus?

Not sure what happened with Kirk, but the the anti-Duhon population must have enjoyed seeing just how disengaged he was at every dead ball.  He knew that there was absolutely no chance that he would get in.

by Gene Banks on Feb 27, 2008 11:46 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I didnt like that either
Larry and Ben decide to take a bad jumper off the screen/roll rather than passing to Gooden when he flashes in the lane and would have a wide open dunk or have to get fouled for 2 ft's.

Like you said, they dont give it to him on the block when he has his man sealed and has good position either and I hate that, but I dotn think the bulls know how to play inside/out after 2+ years of Ben Wallace inside...... and I cant blame them.

So yeah, I agree with you. Gotta go to Drew more in the post, he's got some skills. A good pointguard on the floor with him instead of the BG/LH backcourt would help things alot as well, get Hinrich out there in one of their places and that will change in a HUGE HUGE way.

by Deng is the next Bull superstar on Feb 28, 2008 12:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Where was this all season?
Of course, if Deng can cut on the baseline without the ball, why can't Tyrus?

I think I saw this baseline cut by a Bulls wing player more times last night than I have seen it all season.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 8:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Deng and Thomas are two different players
Deng is one of the best in the league at playing off the ball, and almost always played off the ball.  It's a skill that takes times and feel, and there are a lot of guys in the NBA that can't do it  Tyrus never had to do it and never learned how to do it.  He played PG mostly in HS with the ball in his hands the whole time.  He didn't play AAU where he would have played with better guards and would have had to play off ball.  And at LSU, Tyrus was never in a position where he had to be the one to get open without the ball.  He mostly roamed on offense.  

Which is why you can't turn Thomas into a Marion clone and why Thomas isn't a SF.  Deng has a lot more in common with Marion than Thomas does.  Thomas is a guy you have to give the ball to offensively and let him create.  Which is why the Deng/Thomas pairing should work nicely with Thomas with the ball and Deng cutting off of him.  But, the team has to consistently give Thomas the ball 1st.    

by Scotter on Feb 28, 2008 11:24 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's my point
I'm not saying that Tyrus is going to be an intricate cutter on offense or clever around screens.  But there's nothing that should stop him from being able to 'roam' the baseline and wait for back door lobs and dishes from our newly found penetrators.  I don't think there's a lot to learn there.

I also wouldn't trust Thomas' handle right now.  He is much more likely than Deng to dribble himself into trouble and fumble it away.  Too often, the ball sticks in his hands and we're left watching an awkward attempt at a finish.

That's not to diminish his ability to get to the cup and draw a foul, I just don't want to foreclose the opportunity to get 3-4 easy baskets a game capitalizing on his athleticism.

by Gene Banks on Feb 28, 2008 2:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

we also saw a lob pass
from Hinrich no less! He must've been drinking purity juice.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 28, 2008 11:28 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Progress
This game was nowhere near ideal, but I think we are seeing some good signs for the Bulls moving forward.  And of course, with Boylan at the helm, there were some disconcerting signs too.

Hughes did some good things out there.  He also did some chucking.  He apparently, like so many other Bulls players, is not afraid of pulling up for the 20+ footer while running the 1-2 on 4 break with no one near the hoop to rebound.

Gooden was a ball hawk and a rebound magnet, especially in the second half.  It seemed like the ball couldn't come down anywhere but where he was.

Gordon did a better job distributing the ball than we are accustomed to seeing.  Then again, when you're shooting poorly, and you have legitimate reason to be concerned about staying on the floor, it is probably only natural that you look to contribute in some other way.  I kind of wish he would do that more often, but I guess competition might force him to.  

Moving forward, it is the actions of Boylan that I think spoke loudest about how the rest of the season will play out.  He clearly loves himself some Drew Gooden, which is alright I guess unless the guy who goes to the bench in favor of Gooden has serious potential(which our boy Tyrus Thomas does).  If Drew must be out there, then how about a little less Aaron Gray?  Like none.

I think the writing is on the wall.  Drew will eventually be handed the starting PF job.  I'm guessing Thabo is not long for his starting gig either.  It's a shame, too, because I think the lineups of the last few games had some potential.  I would be agreeable to Kirk, Thabo, Deng, TT, Noah, Gooden, Gordon, Hughes and Nocioni all sharing time equally.  We've got some good depth, but there is a serious dropoff after these guys.  So let's roll with them.  And for Christ's sake Paxson, get Boylan the fuck out of there if he won't.

Why don't you crack an egg of knowledge all over me, buddy.

by MarketMaker on Feb 28, 2008 12:24 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I wish Hughes to play like this
on Sunday.And Noah dunk over BW.
Cavs fans don't realize what they got in Corpse.
Do they know his nickname yet?

P.S.Any information about Khryapa?The guy would burryed even deeper after this trade.

"YES,WE CAN!"-B.OBAMA.

by Azabullsfan on Feb 28, 2008 12:57 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Veektor signed with CSKA Moscow
He's playing for them already.
http://mnweekly.ru/sport/20080221/55311158.html
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 9:00 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i was there to...
i feel hughes should have shot more in the fourth i was tired of seeing gordon over dribble...as usual...and i feel the refs were calling way to many touch fouls making the game seem much slower

by bullzfan148 on Feb 28, 2008 6:03 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Not mentioned yet
Evidently Danny Granger punched Noc in the mouth during the game.  Anybody who was watching/attending the game hear anything about that?!

by paxson43 on Feb 28, 2008 6:16 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Yes he did
punch Noch. The lack of a call on Granger is what brought Kirk off the bench yelling at the ref. Kirk and the ref had a little yelling match going on.
Kirk Hinrump is dead to me. :-)

by sue369 on Feb 28, 2008 6:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I thought something had happened.
The commentators were saying Hinrich and the guys on the bench were yelling to the refs "he has a bloody nose" or something in reference to the punch I guess.  They were not just whining on the bench last night.  It seemed like something really happened.  Not to forget the rest of the physical play the Pacers were getting away with.

by cranscape on Feb 28, 2008 7:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Och, never mind.
I read the article and I guess the punch happened after the game.  I could have sworn he got popped on the nose during the game though.  Probably an elbow.  

by cranscape on Feb 28, 2008 7:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He did
get popped during the game too.
Kirk Hinrump is dead to me. :-)

by sue369 on Feb 28, 2008 7:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No the article
says Noch commented on it after the game. The punch happened during the game that's why the bench erupted when it happened.
Kirk Hinrump is dead to me. :-)

by sue369 on Feb 28, 2008 7:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I watched the play a few times
on the DVR.  Granger caught Noc with a quick jab elbow.  It was a cheap shot.

Granger rolled from right wing to the baseline to run around a double screen.  He was looking to get the ball at the free throw line at the left elbow.  He didn't get the ball because Nocioni was glued to him.  When the ball was dribbled to the left perimeter, Granger whipped his left elbow right at Noc's face.  Granger even cocked his elbow just prior to hitting Noc in the nose.

Granger was frustrated by Noc all night.  The only shots he was getting were 3 point attempts.  16 of his 10 shots were from the 3 point territory.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 9:07 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Noc was riding him
He's a bit like Dennis the Menace.  He was bumping him the entire time Granger was trying to get around the screen.  It's probably a bit disengenous to think that any of us wouldn't look to sneak in a little jab with a guy like Nocioni guarding us.  I'm just surprised it wasn't to his groin.

by Gene Banks on Feb 28, 2008 9:10 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

There was a play
in the 2nd half where Noc planted his position on defense and Granger tried to run through him.  Granger just bounced off Noc and had to take two steps back.  I was sure the whistle happy refs were going to call something.  They didn't.  Granger wasn't very happy.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 9:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Along with what was mentioned above,
Granger was trying like hell to get a whistle throughout that play and the previous one by flopping. Noc was D-ing him up really well down low, so what he did was flail his arms and jerk his body around every time Noc gave any resistance whatsoever.

When that didn't work, he abandoned calling for the ball on the left block and cut through the lane. He was coming through the lane and hit Noc in the face, right near the free throw line.

The refs last night were particularly bad with some calls and non-calls against the Bulls. They tried to make up for it later with some calls/non-calls against the Pacers, but this doesn't change the fact that Noc got 'cheap shotted' in plain sight with no repercussions to Granger. I hope the league looks at this.

We all pick on Noc for boneheaded roaming on defense, but what gets lost is that other than his roaing, he can be a really good man-to-man defender. It drives people like Jermaine O'Neal and Vince Carter crazy, which is why it's popular to hate him. You'd hope the refs see through this, but it doesn't seem like they do.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Feb 28, 2008 10:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I like this defense
It's very Rodmanesque.  A lot of these stars have thin skin and poor emotional control.  Rip Hamilton is a good example.  Vince Carter, as you cited, is another.

Granger's their best player with O'neal on the shelf.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 10:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm pretty sure Rodman
could still stay in front of his man. Noc does most of his 'under-skin' whatever while watching free-throws.

He may have been cheapshotted, but I was pretty peeved seeing the refs take 5 minutes just to talk to Noc, and then have to hear Hinrich chirping from the bench for good measure. I can't believe that the Bulls get any favors from the officials mainly because of the way those two behave.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 28, 2008 11:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Noc was on fire
The cheap shot came when Noc was hitting everything, and indeed, it was the first moment in the game the Bulls pulled away (it was a close contest up to the 3rd). Of course, the Noc haters would not comment on it...

by Sky on Feb 28, 2008 9:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Whatever happened with Hinrich...
You have got to be kidding me.  I'm one of the few that feels that Boylan is only a shitty coach, but not the worst ever.  I'm starting to change my mind.  It looks like whatever inconsistencies hes had with lineups may just be a reflection of the unpredictability of his personality, and not in a fun Nellie kind of way.  All of a sudden he pulls Hinrich for a slight defensive lapse?  How about Gooden not paying attention at all on the defensive end?  Or Gordon's constant terrible defense?  This is terrible.  Whether you like Hinrich or not, he's the only player on that team that can pass.  His defense has been suspect at times this year, but Thabo can cover for that!!!  I'm very unhappy about this development.

by Coach Van Lier on Feb 28, 2008 8:46 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Hinrich couldn't guard Diener
and he couldn't score on Diener.  Kirk's biggest games of the season have come against players like Travis Diener.

I think Boylan had points and defensive expectations that were very high for Kirk last night.  He didn't come close to meeting those expectations so Boylan sat him.

The quick foul in the 2nd half didn't help Kirk get a chance.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 9:10 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

in fact
his biggest game was against diener.

however, his game wasn't a total bust.  6 pts (2-2 on 3s, only took 1 other shot), 3 assists, 2 steals.

he wasn't being as aggressive as that night, since he only took 3 shots, which may have been the cause for the hook.  and he was being beat.  but for only playing 16 min his stats aren't awful.

by Jaina on Feb 28, 2008 9:18 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

oh
and 0 TO's.  which given his 3 early TO's against dallas before he got booted, looks much better.

by Jaina on Feb 28, 2008 9:21 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, and if that's the case
you yank him, tell him to be more aggressive and send him back in.

Boylan is REALLY bad...

by Bass on Feb 28, 2008 9:24 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

right
when gordon went cold in the 4th he should have brought hinrich back in.

by Jaina on Feb 28, 2008 9:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That was one of my objections to the whole thing
Kirk's my fav, I admit, but I would have been irritated by Boylan doing that to any of the guys.  He's not one of the kids that necessarily needs to play through mistakes, so I don't really have a problem with Boylan yanking him if he does something hugely idiotic, but I also didn't see anything in that 57 second stretch that seemed exceptionally hideous.

But I'm still more curious about the post-game comments.  Boylan has been so careful since he took over to be ultra-positive, even when it has sounded idiotic.  Lots of "we competed" and "riding the hot hand" - so I find it interesting that he didn't go that route last night.  Given his history, I would have expected it to be more of a "Kirk was a little off to start the second half, then other guys got hot and I went with them."  It should at least limit the Kirk-as-teacher's-pet comments, since this is the second time Boylan has been (for him) a little hard-ass with Kirk.  (The first being that whole "earn your way back in after injury" thing)

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Feb 28, 2008 9:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Indeed
All this talk about diener blowing past kirk, well no one really stopped him throughout the game. I am positive there had to be something more than not brining your "A game", because it seemed hinrich did bring his A game. Not even skiles would sit a guy out for this long unless he royally screwed up. Uh, someone should have a unanimous vote on this but...Either hinrich or gordon should be on the floor at all times if you expect to win.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Feb 28, 2008 11:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

either hinrich or gordon..
but wasn't gordon in most of the time hinrich was sitting?  your requirement was still met.

by Jaina on Feb 28, 2008 11:12 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Most of the time
Yea ure right, i was more speaking of the future, meaning you cant continue to sit hinrich out the entire, or have gordon play the entire game. When gordon does sit out, hinrich should be back in. Also, late in the third didnt thabo come in for gordon. Or when gordon had gotten cold, they left him in there, instead of resting him and throwing hinrich in. Also, this doesnt help hinrichs value either if they plan to trade him.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Feb 28, 2008 11:33 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

sending a message
On Tues. a lot of people on this board were complaining about Kirk's rumored partying prior to his crappy performance against Dallas.  It's possible Boylan found out after the game (by reading BaB?) and benched him after a mediocre start to send a message.  I've got no problem with this as long he lets Kirk start next game with a clean slate.

by El Toro de Goro on Feb 28, 2008 12:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Is it good coaching
If thats what he did, make kirk pay for the last game, with his current game (where he wasnt playing too bad). I guess it might have been cuz they were winning, though they werent leading by alot or anything and still couldve been close. Also it wasnt like kirk missed practice or something that hurts the team...so i dont get the reasoning. When Hughes told Boylan he was tired, and told kirk to go in for him, boylan vetoed that and sent thabo in...i think that really wierded me out.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Feb 28, 2008 12:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That was an awkward sequence
I was hoping KC Johnson would write about that.  Maybe that's blog material for the Full Court Press blog.

I thought Hughes had injured himself.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 12:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If it means anything
NOt that anyone would care but, i did send a question to Sam Smith this morning regarding if he knows anything more about what happpened. I doubt ill get a straight answer. It seems he usually gives an answer along the lines of Players not reacting right with the media and how in the good ol days Jordan would take time talking to everyone, and the children, wont anyone think of the children!!
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Feb 28, 2008 12:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Boylan has saved me.
Or something. I was ready to quit but not playing Duhon can sure bring me back quick.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 28, 2008 9:09 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

that's true
it makes up for alot. I wonder how many games it'll be before the papers stop mentioning that he's not playing?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 28, 2008 9:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

For what it's worth...
...if the Bulls had traded Deng and P.J. Brown plus ____ for Gasol, Al Thorton is the guy I wanted to replace Deng with. If they're able to re-sign Deng, I think the team has a much brighter future than had they made the trade. But a front-court of Nocioni, Thorton, Gasol, Wallace and Thomas would be intriguing right now.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 28, 2008 9:12 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Nothing
with Wallace would be intriguing...

by Bass on Feb 28, 2008 9:21 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Anyone think....
... that since Hughes will be here for a few years, they should try to re-sign Gordon and trade Sefolosha? For what, I don't know. Draft Budinger and maybe trade Sefo and Nocioni (that wont happen) for a young PG. That would at least build an interesting under-24 5-man team. (PG, Budinger, Deng, Thomas, Noah)

A thought anyway.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 28, 2008 9:25 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

There's just that little problem of money...
But you know they have to get rid of someone - competition is lovely in theory and all, but it's tough to maintain team chemistry on an ongoing basis like that, imo.  They interviewed Larry after the game last night, and he again said he expects to be starting soon, leaving the Bulls with 4 guards who all have some claim to wanting/deserving to start.  Personally, I'm more attached to the guys we've had than the new one, but I think it's going to have to be a case of who brings the most in return this offseason, unless one of them shows that he won't fit in or BG can't get a deal done.
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Feb 28, 2008 9:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Right
and i think it's very possible we won't get a deal done with gordon.  he doesn't deserve 15 mil a year.  10 sure (given what we've paid hinrich and noc).

the main problem is are we really going to commit 10+ mil a year to someone we've deemed a bench guy?  i just don't see it.

and i'm ok with thabo coming off the bench as long as he gets minutes in.  a gordon/sef backcourt could be very turnover prone though.  and in a way it's for that that maybe he should come off the bench.  he needs to reduce his traveling calls.  he looks great out there and i really like thabo, and if he gets decent minutes off the bench, but there's a couple things he needs to improve and if he gets minutes coming off the bench, that's okay with me.

by Jaina on Feb 28, 2008 9:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

ok
that last sentence made no sense.  i really just mean he needs to improve a few things but if he gets decent minutes, that's cool with me.

by Jaina on Feb 28, 2008 9:49 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

we dont need gordon anymore
hughes is just as good of a scorer and im fully confident he can get back to his washington numbers now that hell be able to slash to the basket with no lebron around. plus hughes does something noone else on this team does and thats getting to the line. that been the biggest positive of this trade so far. we finally have someone that can drive and create their own offense as opposed to having gordon run around n take horrible jumpers whenever we need to score.

by Jbasic89 on Feb 28, 2008 9:51 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This team struggled scoring with Gordon
It isn't right now. It will struggle again w/ Hughes and w/o Gordon. Gordon isn't expendable because of Hughes. He only would be if Sefolosha stepped up his scoring.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 28, 2008 9:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

When has Hughes been good?
Other than his contract year, he's never had a year as good as Gordon's last.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 28, 2008 9:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Gordon is the best
Shooter on this team, HANDS DOWN! Hughes is a big guy who i think dribbles too much, i like that he gets to the line more but his shooting isnt great. Hinrich, Gordon, or Hughes...one of them has got to go in my oppinion. Like wjb, im sort of attached to the old (young?) guys, so im hoping we get a big payoff for hughes...
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Feb 28, 2008 11:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Money for sure.
I didn't know how it worked before and even less of an idea now. Can they sign Deng w/o doing anything? Do it. If so, then it's about signing Gordon. Trading Nocioni and Sefolosh for players able to be released would be a good start. See how little I know what I'm talking about?

Anyway, I like Thabo more than Hughes, too, but I don't think there's anyway of getting rid of Hughes and his contract. And Gordon is way better than Thabo.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 28, 2008 9:51 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Transitive math?
If you like Thabo more than Hughes, and Gordon way more than Thabo, math says you like Ben a huge-monster-whole lot more than Larry?

Didn't look like that last night when Ben was throwing brick after brick.

by Sky on Feb 28, 2008 9:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not math class, dingus.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 28, 2008 9:56 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

To explain the logic...
...since I have sick need to be understood and you won't figure it out: if it were a straight "Who do you want more?" I'd take thabo and Gordon. It's not, though, because (as I thought I pointed out), Hughes isn't going anywhere... most likely. Therefore, it's between Gordon and Thabo.

Sheesh.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 28, 2008 9:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Trade Ben now.
He's a failed project. He got away with non existing D and streaky shooting for a long time, and thought he had negotiation leverage because he was the team's only scorer -not anymore. Good luck and good riddance.

by Sky on Feb 28, 2008 9:58 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

trade deng too
Him being 1a to Gordon's 1b in terms of impact on the Bulls over the past playoff runs. Deng must be equally worthless.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Feb 28, 2008 11:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

'playoff run'?
Noc is the playoff guy. Remember when they chanted No-cee-oh-nee from the rafters? ;-)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 28, 2008 11:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

no kidding
The Bulls should pick up that 2012-13 option on Nocioni this summer.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Feb 28, 2008 11:19 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not necessarily so
But it should make the blind haters reconsider.

Noce is a solid role player. He'll never be a star but he is a plus for the team. At many times during this season, it looked like he was the only guy willing to play through thick and thin. Deng is a more talented player overall, no question. But he still has plenty to prove. He hasn't lived up to expectations yet.

by Sky on Feb 28, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Kirk Hinrich is 13th in the NBA in assists/gm
Take that you "pure" bitches.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 28, 2008 9:26 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

AND
if he didn't suck in the first 2.2 months this year he'd be back to his normal 6-8 spot....

Imagine how he might do with an actual front court option....interesting

by majoyenrac on Feb 28, 2008 11:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Majoyenerec
Absolutely, we are definitely on the same wavelength when it comes to that.

by Deng is the next Bull superstar on Feb 28, 2008 1:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i wish they woulda done this trade a lot sooner
that way there would have been time for Pax to sure up the guard situation. anyone else think the bulls will sign n trade gordon in the offseason and what kind of value do you think he has? BTW does anyone know how much cap room the bulls will have at the end of the year?

by Jbasic89 on Feb 28, 2008 9:48 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Value? What value?
Let's see what BG's value is. No D -never had, never will. Right now, low percentage shooting. Visibly unhappy coming off the bench. "I don't care anymore" body language. I'd say he's worth a 14" deep dish. Without extra cheese.

by Sky on Feb 28, 2008 10:02 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Slightly disagree Sky
I think BG has pretty good value, a team like the Raptors could definitely use him in a huge way, or say the Pacers, or the Cavs, or the Hornets or Jazz, etcetera.

Lots of teams could use him, especially the Raptors or Pacers (Or Bulls) IMHO.

As long as we resign Deng Im happy as can be. I like BG too, would love to see him back as long as he doesnt want too much money, he is starting to show a  little bit of promise at PG in a Gilbert/Monta Ellis-style of PG...... hmmm.......

by Deng is the next Bull superstar on Feb 28, 2008 1:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

a long time advocate of this shift in player usage
Ben Gordon at the Point ... instead of Hinrich ... is a solid 'strategic coaching move' for Chicago.

Glad to see Boylen's roots in hoops ... stretching all the way back to Marquette, with (Balloons & Seashells) Al ... finally start to kick in.

BLT ... baby!

(Go Warriors!)

by khandor on Feb 28, 2008 10:01 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Give Boylan a break, Matt
You said "If they look like they're having an off night (or are in foul trouble, and neither was the case tonight)..." about pulling out the youngsters. This time, Boylan pulled TT in the 4th after he fouled twice in the span of a minute, and he had missed a couple layups before. Any NBA coach would do the same. I think he is treating TT fairly and while the kid responded well, he stayed on the floor.

by Sky on Feb 28, 2008 10:16 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Bound to happen
"Tyrus Thomas, whom the coaching staff has discussed replacing in the lineup with Gooden"

From the Tribune

I can't place my finger on why this happens. If Tyrus has actually done something to go back to the bench, explain it to me. The man knows the system better than Gooden and has more value to the future of this team.

There is no reason he should have even been yanked outta the first quarter so early last night considering he was affecting the game very positively.

It's clear now the only way to develop Thomas or Noah with Boylan is to eliminate anyone he sub in for them.

I really don't see it as coincidence that both had their best game of the year (opinion) against Denver.  They both knew they weren't getting yanked for lame reasons and both played with great confidence and it showed on the court.

by Option27 on Feb 28, 2008 10:17 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, we knew this was coming
I guess Boylan reads this blog after all and decided to listen to "Deng is the next superstar"... Of all people...

I still say we do a "Celtic Pride" on the whole Bulls "coaching staff"...

And you're spot on with your last comment. I want that starting lineup back. Sit BG next to duhon and plug the rest in to back-up roles. (Yes, I DO see the problem with LH and Gooden in agreeing on this...)

by Bass on Feb 28, 2008 10:32 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thomas isn't
a "traditional post player."  And if you've got one of those, you've got to play him.  Even if he's an average "traditonal post player."

by JeffD on Feb 28, 2008 10:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He finds his own way to score in the post
Not your traditional way.

And if he gets even more time, he might develop some more to that post game

by Option27 on Feb 28, 2008 10:39 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Impossible
He's the size of Tracy McGrady, it aint happening.

by Deng is the next Bull superstar on Feb 28, 2008 1:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL!
Tyrus is the size of Tracy?!

I think the only thing they have in common is 5 letters in their name

by Option27 on Feb 28, 2008 2:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

They're both 6"8, actually
With Tracy being a little more "meaty"

by Bass on Feb 29, 2008 12:29 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry,
I was being sarcastic.

by JeffD on Feb 28, 2008 4:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

nice catch Option
I skimmed KC's game story and completely missed that.

Boylan sucks, although if Tyrus at least stays at 25+ he'll do well enough to guarantee sticking on the team, at least.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 28, 2008 10:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Did you listen to KC on Mike North's show
yesterday morning?

KC was making a case to keep Boylan at the same time he was making a case that keeping Boylan isn't necessarily a good idea.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 10:58 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah
his main selling point was that Boylan's distinguished himself from Skiles, and 'looks calm' in all the chaos.

I'm starting to get a bad feeling about it...

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 28, 2008 11:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks, Matt :)
Or perhaps I should wait till I have listened.. ;)

by Bass on Feb 28, 2008 11:20 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, I understand the warning...
What an extraordinarily annoying voice that man has. Bah!

by Bass on Feb 28, 2008 11:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Boylan on the cheap
You can totally see Reinsdorf signing him to a cheap two year extension to offset the amount of money he might have to pay Skiles if he doesn't work next year.

by Gene Banks on Feb 28, 2008 2:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree
that Larry Hughes' propensity to be a chucker is a worrisome thing for our team in the future.

I like what he did last night, but part of that was because he hit the vast majority of his ill-advised shots.  

I would rather see Gordon be our chucker because Gordon has a fabulous shot, even when he's off, his shot looks good and he's got a better chucker history.

I do like the flexibility we have though with our guard rotation and I do like seeing Hughes and Gordon in the backcourt.

Gooden as I mentioned in the Gooden post, is a legitimate starting PF, which is nice to see, he adds a depth to our inside outside game that we haven't had in CHicago in years.....he's not a star PF, but a very solid role playing PF.  I think he should be the starter for the rest of the year and we can work Tyrus into a backup PF/backup SF.

Deng?  He better get back to form soon, he played slightly better perhaps on D yesterday (but you never know because he was guarding Dunleavy instead of Josh Howard).  He made a few nice drives yesterday but doesn't seem to be back to his old self.....given that, let's give Noc more time.  I like Nocioni and for the most part he makes solid plays (although he too often tends to shoot a 3 (mostly open) but shoots the 3 ball too often when their will be 3 guys of the other team under the boards and 0-1 Bull, so that's annoying, but still he's playing more competently than Deng....and as I've mentioned I'd like to see more Tyrus at the 3 too, let's give Deng mroe time to heal.

I agree totally with your Noah comments....

Hinrich looked AWFUL yesterday too.

Nice to see my Marquette Alumnus Diener playing his pro game of his life....he still has little D, but that was no bother for a while when Kirk had no energy, D or O yesteday.....Hughes reminded Indiana why they can't win though with Dienier as their starting PG, because for all his nice offensive talents, he's probably amongst the worst defenders in the league considering he looks like he's 15 (the lambchops I guess make him look 17), is slight of build, and is far worse than even Nash on D....still he looked awesome on offense yesterday.

by majoyenrac on Feb 28, 2008 10:34 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Rosen
Finally writes something we all can agree with

You gotta love the wide spreading Wallace hate

by Option27 on Feb 28, 2008 10:37 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Rosen.
Now there's a guy who could sit around and shoot the old-school, grumpy-old-man-isms with guys like Norm Van Lier. In fact, he'd out-grumpy Norm. He makes Sam Smith seem like a ray of sunshine.
"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Feb 28, 2008 10:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

-17 against the Celtics for "Big Ben"
Ouch.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 11:00 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Arm Sleeves Eh
Ive always wanted an arm sleeve. Once thought that it somehow helps your shooting, maybe keeping your hands tight for a better rotation. Then i started to see Wal-mart carrying them. They cost 8 bucks, and i was bent on getting one. One day someone had conviniantly opened a package and left the sleeve, so i tried it on. Grabbed a basketball and took some practice shots into the air, there was no special feeling. So then i realized what a sleeve really is, a fairly expensive piece of cloth that looks really cool. I still plan on buying one, but only when i have money to kill.

That was 20 seconds of your life you'll never get back, sorry...

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Feb 28, 2008 11:29 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That explains a lot. ;)
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Feb 28, 2008 11:42 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thats
Gansta, now i understand where all your stree cred comes from, err i mean your blog cred (or lack there'of)
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Feb 28, 2008 11:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

meant street
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Feb 28, 2008 11:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

where
Does all this 15 mil per talk come from? Maybe gordon wanted to negotiate instead of a take it or leave it type offer. After watching us get rid of several allstars too early (Brand, Artest, Miller, and Chandler) I don't understand why everyone is so ready to run gordon out of town.  IMO if he leaves or is traded he ill be our next superstar. Does anyone remember what his BGs game looked like with a post prescence (curry)? With our depth at sf maybe deng should be the one on the trading block.

by Blacknight23 on Feb 28, 2008 11:59 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

15 mil is from Sam Smith
His sources indicated to him that Gordon was seeking a contract that paid him, on average through the length of the contract, 15 mil per.

Yes, you negotiate.  But if the first offer is good do you continue to needle the club for another 2 million per season?  This was quite a gamble for Gordon considering he's a major defensive liability.

Things may work out, but I just don't know what Ben thinks he is worth per season.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 12:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

of course you needle
It's a contract negotiation for millions (!) of dollars. Taking the first offer that comes across the table would be pretty foolish. Paxson was pretty open about his offer-security-but-offer-more-money-next-summer plan. It's not that big of a gamble to play out a season for a bigger contract.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Feb 28, 2008 12:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

BG's not a defensive liability
.... When he's at the point and Hughes is at the 2. For real.

I really kind of like seeing Gordon at Point, and now that we have a post-up option that has to be guarded keeping the defense honest and we can pick/roll with him as a great option as well (With BG/Gooden)......... I dont know, I guess Im just trying to say that I DO remember how he looked with a post-up option. And it was great, and Im starting to see it again now with Gooden here. That is GREAT.

Im starting to think Gordon could improve as a Pg and im liking seeing him run point with the ball in his hands. He gets it to Hughes, he doesnt know how to feed Gooden inside on the screen/roll for a wide open dunk yet, and he doesnt make the entry pass when Gooden has his man sealed with his back-to-basket in the post..... but he can learn that. Sure those are all things that Kirk is better at, but I think BG can get better at it. And with his prowess playing off the ball it allows Hughes to have the ball in his hands to slash and create for himself and others, it allows Gooden to have it run through him in the post (BG is our best option to kick-out to for an open 3 when his defender cheats toward helping on Drew in the post), and it allows Deng to make plays here or there with the ball in his hands as well. Kirk cant play as well off the ball, not even close.....

Im REALLY starting to like BG at PG. He's really showing me alot as a Gilbert/Monta/Bibby/AI/Parker style of PG.

by Deng is the next Bull superstar on Feb 28, 2008 1:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

for real, it doesn't matter
if Gordon plays the point or the SG position.  Even Diener was making Gordon look silly albeit on a career night for Diener.

If I had to guess, Gordon is probably among the bottom 25-50 defensive players in the entire NBA.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 2:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

old is new is old, again
I'll repeat it again, for those that might have missed it, the 1st time thru ...

BEN GORDON at the Point, for Chicago - with the other players now on the roster - is a solid 'strategic coaching decision' for the Bulls ...

especially if he's partnered with Sefolosha & Hughes (for defensive & rebounding purposes).

As a PG ... with decent size, strength & lateral quickness ... Ben Gordon ... in a movement-based offense, like the Triangle ... becomes a Lethal Weapon for his team, under the right coach, in the NBA.

Position/Starter - Reserves

POINT GUARDS/Gordon - Duhon (or Hinrich)
WINGS/Sefolosha, Hughes - Deng & Nocioni
BIGS/Thomas, Noah - Gray & Gooden

Chicago fans should be smiling from ear-to-ear at the mere mention of this possibility.

by khandor on Feb 28, 2008 3:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe
the Bulls can get Buddy Ryan.  Hell, he'd probably be better than Boylan.

by JeffD on Feb 28, 2008 4:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

of course
it doesn't have to be the Triangle O ... any movement-based offense will do, e.g. Princeton's or Rick Adelman's (from Sac-town).

The key is that ... skilled players like Larry Hughes & Ben Gordon, who end up chucking shots in stagnant isolation Offenses, would actually do far less of this, if/when they get chances to move without the ball arbirarily, screening, cutting & passing the rock.

by khandor on Feb 28, 2008 7:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

so the fact
that the bulls run the motion offense, specifically designed to get BG moving and cutting and running off of screens, doesn't mean anything to you?  I don't want to harp on BG, so I'll just point out that you don't seem to understand what's really going on out on the court.  And the triangle isn't a motion offense, it's a post offense designed to create better spacing.
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Feb 28, 2008 9:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

don't let the facts get in the way
of disagreeing with someone on the internet. Personally, I appreciated how Adelman's Princeton was separated from the traditional Princeton. Ignoring all the screens and ball movement the Bulls do isn't a big deal when someone has an eye for detail like that.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Feb 28, 2008 9:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What depth at SF? Please don't say Noce
Thabo might work as starter at the 3, but if it comes down to paying Deng or Gordon, you have to go with Deng.  He's younger and better.  Hopefully, though, it won't come down to that choice.

by snley on Feb 28, 2008 12:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, you're leaving out the depth provide by
everyone's favorite 3-guard lineup!  And with 4 guards playing now, and 5 if you count Duhon, that's like 10 different permutations!  

Then you have Ty who inexplicably plays there so often, and I'm almost positive I heard Red proposing Aaron Gray minutes at SF the other day....

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I realize that the Bulls should trade Deng and Noc to clear up that logjam.

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Feb 28, 2008 12:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Red was in a hurry
Gray at SF and Red b-lining to the men's room before the 2nd quarter final minute had concluded.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 1:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The Fan Logic Behind it all
Gordon is, like many (if not all) of the bulls players, replaceable if an upgrade comes. Many fans (not me by the way) believe that Hughes is that upgrade on Gordon. Considering that there there is no one on the bulls (aside from duhon, is quite disliked among the fans) who can really play the point position, Hinrich is deemed as safe (for now). Duhon most likely wont be signed after this year, and Thabo still has the pottential to be something special and fans want to see what really can come from the defensive minded, athletic tall guard. Hughes has shown that he can score fairly well, but more importantly can get to the line. Plus he also has size and is considered to be a good defender. Thus by that deduction Gordon becomes the odd guard out.

In my oppinion, it comes down to Hinrich vs Gordon (ideally i would want them to trade Hughes and others for cap relief in the up coming season so they could sign some of the big guns that will be on the market in 2009). You could trade Hinrich, and resign Duhon (for alot less) and play hughes along side with gordon having thabo and duhon come off the bench for support. However, gordon is the better scorer hands down, and thus that might just make him alot better trade bait, or theres that little issue with his contract.
 In that case keeping hinrich allows you to get a player who still brings defense, solid passing,  and the ability to score some (not to mention costs less and less every season) not sign gordon or duhon, which will save you some money (or you could sign and trade the two for something) and get a new shooter in the draft ( i hear E. Gordon is a taller Ben Gordon).

Ben Gordon gets thrown out more, because despite his awesome scoring ability, he seems to be average in other areas where Hughes or Thabo (and in some areas kirk) out shine him. Sorry that was probably much longer than anyone cared to read, or confused people for no reason. I am a fan of Hinrich, but i tried to be unbiased with my reasoning...

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Feb 28, 2008 12:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Depth at small forward??
Demetris Nichols????

by cjurmann on Feb 28, 2008 12:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, you wonder
when the fans are going to get a look at what this kid can do. Probably in summer league.

But if he can be that tall, long-range bomber with the Bulls, that would make everyone's job easier.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Feb 28, 2008 12:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nichols should be playing for the Energy
right now.  I don't know why he's with the NBA team right now.  He should be playing games with the Iowa Energy.

We must be keeping him with the club right now because we expect Deng to miss more games.  I don't think that's a worry now with Hughes here and Thabo getting SF playing time.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 12:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

don't fret
General manager John Paxson said little-used guard Demetris Nichols will return to the D-League when this road trip ends.

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=142061&src=150

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 28, 2008 12:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

thabo
can play small forward.

by KT on Feb 28, 2008 12:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

wjb
I've been trying to use that lenovo +/- site to see how the duo of LH and Gooden stacked up against the league last night, but it keeps coming back "no statistics available for your selections."  

Is it not working right--or am I not?  Thanks.

by eGirl on Feb 28, 2008 12:08 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

It wasn't working for me today either
Same problem you are describing.  I hope they get it corrected, because I love playing with that site!
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Feb 28, 2008 1:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

hinrich's time may be up (should be up)
at this point, i would rather keep gordon, hughes, and thabo and draft a point guard while trading hinrich and noc and our mid first round pick for a better pick.  hinrich looks awful.  i was honestly happy when he got tossed in dallas, and even boylan is sick of him, which is saying a lot.  he is constantly putting the bulls in worse position as opposed to helping his team. jerryd bayless from arizona could help our cause, that guy is really, really, really good.

i have never seen a player regress as badly as hinrich has this year, and in my opinion, its why the bulls are 11 games under.

by Conor on Feb 28, 2008 1:10 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

uhhhh
"trading hinrich and noc and our mid first round pick for a better pick."

Good luck with that.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 28, 2008 1:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

no faith
we just traded ben wallace!  anything is possible

by Conor on Feb 28, 2008 1:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hinrich would be a tough trade
His contract is definitely a hurdle. Noc as well, but I think if the Bulls were so inclined, he would be an easier sell.

by RogersPark Kris on Feb 28, 2008 1:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

After the BYC is gone
I think Noc is a very easy sell.  He adds a toughness and grit, and as someone else mentioned today, Noc has been awesome in the playoffs when healthy (he wasn't healthy last year).

Hollinger's post today (man I'm quoting Hollinger twice in one day, but his post today outside of the trade Tyrus comments were good) also said that on a real competitor having a guy as good as Nocioni on your bench is really a nice option to have.

I frankly hope the Bulls keep Noc....but I understand if we need to have him go to avoid the tax.

by majoyenrac on Feb 28, 2008 3:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So the fact
that the entire team, from the coaching on down, sucked this year somehow escaped you?  One could hardly heap all this on Hinrich when everyone started out so poorly, there was drama with Wallace, Skiles was fired...  Everyone's numbers were down (besides Smith and Noc for the most part).  Hinrich is part of the team and thus part of the failure of the first half of the season, but hardly the main problem.

by cranscape on Feb 28, 2008 1:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, but
he is the point guard, arguably the most important player out there.  besides wallace, kirk has been the most awful this year.  Worse than anyone else over the course of the season.  Even a hobbled luol has been better than kirk.  Shit, even luol in street clothes sitting on the bench is better than kirk.  how many times this year have we seen kirk throw a lazy ass pass to someone who is covered, and the result is ALWAYS a break away lay up for the other team.  His decision making has been flat out atrocious.   he cant make any shots with consistency, his defense hasnt been great.  he is the captain, and he looks like a born again loser out there.

by Conor on Feb 28, 2008 1:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

When Luol and Ben were in street clothes
Kirk was scoring 20 pts a game. Its been said by others but, kirk has been slowly reverting back to his mean since january. Really the best argument why kirk has to go isnt because he sucks, but maybe because he might not be needed. Although theres still no solid evidence about that (in fact at the moment its hard to tell which guards are truly expendable)
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Feb 28, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Kirk has to
go because he hasn't shown leadership for one aside from his poor play. He's one of the top paid players on the team yet has no voice on the team nor does he play consistent enough to earn the bulk of the playing time at the PG position. It's a said case but true. When you're one of the top paid players on the team especially at the PG position you should be good enough to play 35 to 38mins a night.  And be productive if I may add.

by Takeaseat on Feb 28, 2008 1:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i know he has got to score
when bg and lu are out, but i am not talking about scoring.  I am talking about making the team better.  he hasnt done that really this year, now with wallace gone, kirk, in my opinion, is the biggest liability out there.

by Conor on Feb 28, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I get what ure saying
Yet still, your argument really could apply to any of the guards. I mean how does ben gordon or thabo or even mr. hughes make this team better. Watch the bulls run without hinrich and its sort of plain that its not as fluid. That really i think is how hinrich leads the team, he keeps the pace on both offense and defense. If kirk is the highest paid member on this bulls team, its because he is the oldest and hit his contract before anyone else did so i dont get that point at all (i am very sure luol will be making more than him if he is signed, and gordon will be right up there with him if he is signed). I dont see this biggest liablity issue with hinrich either. With wallace, the game was 5 on 4. I dont think the game goes that bad when kirk is in. THen theres the consistincy argument with hinrich. CHeck his season splits, if nothing more, until this year Hinrich has been Mr. Consistant, and like i said before many people have noted him going back to his old self lately.

Hinrich by all means isnt untradeable, but i just dont comprehend this "biggest liability" reasoning that some people have been having. If there is anyone who on this team is not a liability at some point or another then i want to know who it is, cuz each of the players have thier days when they either are on the verge of stardom, or on the verge of being traded.

With so many guards, you can bet your bottom dollar someone will be gone in the offseason, but it wont be because they suck (duhon doesnt count) it will be because they for whatever reason arent needed.

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Feb 28, 2008 3:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Kirk doesnt
Kirk doesnt suck he's just not worth the pay. I get what your saying which is why every chance I get I throw the blame back at Pax. He should have seen this coming. There's no way he should have drafted two guards in as many years and figure that it would just be good competition and nothing more. I remember when BJ Armstrong was drafted and he went through the same thing never mind the fact that Pax was on his way out the door anyway... young players want to play it's simple as that.  

by Takeaseat on Feb 28, 2008 4:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

BG, Noch,
Luol can't make shots with consistency either. Face it, it's not just Kirk.
Kirk Hinrump is dead to me. :-)

by sue369 on Feb 28, 2008 1:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i am not denial
the performance of the point guard is usually the best indicator of how well the team is playing.  this is just how it is.
if miles davis sucked, then no one would have heard of herbie hancock.  its that sort of thing.
i have always liked hinrich, but he sucks this year.    Even boylan is sick of hinrich...BOYLAN people!!

by Conor on Feb 28, 2008 2:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

In truth
Herbie would probably be the John Paxon/Ron Harper of that era of the quintet while Miles was Jordan; or maybe as a more representational analogy of his skills, he was Kobe during the Lakers championships while Miles was Shaq.  Though, the unsung hero in that quintet is Wayne, as he wrote a ton of the music and killed every night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_whk6m67VE

by Kemp on Feb 28, 2008 2:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Miles Golden ERA Bulls.
PG: Ron Harper/Herbie
SG: MJ/Miles
SF: Scottie/Wayne
PF: Rodman/Tony William
6th Man: Kukoc/Carter

by Kemp on Feb 28, 2008 2:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

awesome
i am listening to miles davis right now, hence the reference.  i am glad you picked up on it.  i was really just comparing miles to any awesome point guard...he his the guy in charge, he makes it all flow, and he makes all his teammates better and more popular

by Conor on Feb 28, 2008 2:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Very nice...saw all these guys live,
and I wouldn't argue against any of them.  However, it occurs to me that by your inclusion of both Ron Carter and Dennis Rodman you are mingling Davis' acoustic era with his electric period...which is fine, as it opens the door for my personal favorite Davis band mate, John McLaughlin.  Perhaps in recognition of his later work leading the Mahavishnu Orchestra, he might best fit in your line-up as Phil Jackson.      
"No, no. Stop talking to me. Someone might notice," Paxson squeaked.

by alec on Feb 28, 2008 4:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ron Carter
was his second quintet's acoustic bassist.  His first electric bassist was Dave Holland; he even wrote some of In a Silent Way (my personal favorite Miles record) and was part of that group with Chick, Keith Jarrett, Bartz, Airto Moreira and DeJohnette that played at Isle of Wight.  I actually saw him play with his group that featured Chris Potter.

by Kemp on Feb 28, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Best Ron Carter appearance:
Portrait of a Man - Gil Scott Heron.

by Kemp on Feb 28, 2008 5:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This thread's about to fall into the abyss,
but while it yet lives, let me commend you on your choice.  If one were to check the web for significant moments in jazz recording (which, btw, I did), one would find you also have history on your side.

However (excuse me for a moment--how about that Larry Hughes, eh?), for purely sentimental reasons, I'd probably have to go with either A Tribute to Jack Johnson or Bitches Brew.  My dad was a trumpet player (albeit classical), and was a great collector of all things trumpet, which permitted an early indoctrination into Miles Davis.  A framed poster of the Tribute to Jack Johnson album cover (yes, kiddies, music used to come in suitcase-sized, rather than matchbook-sized formats) hung in the music room.  To this day, I believe that cover photo of Miles Davis captures a certain essence of music-making as well as any other I've seen.

I got to see Miles on his one appearance at the Chicago Jazz Fest (1982?).  A Tribune photog captured one lone kid, surrounded by a sea of empty seats, shirtless in the blazing summer sun, waiting patiently for that night's historical closing performance.  That kid was me, and I still have that print, now framed and hanging on the wall next to Miles' Tribute portrait.

So, nice to meet you, Kemp.

by alec on Feb 29, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dude, you noob Hinrich haters have come out
I don't buy it.  Hinrich can't be blamed for everyone else forgetting how to shoot, guard, jump, coach, etc.  He isn't to be faulted for Wallace forgetting how to jump and holding back on Skiles or for Deng hurting his tendon or Gordon hurting his wrist.  He can't be blamed for Skiles not playing Noah and Thomas and Thabo.  He can't be faulted for being forced to play with 3/5 lineups with Duhon and Wallace in, sucking the life out of the offense. While had some dumb fouls and passes I don't believe his faults are longer or worse than everyone else's this season. I would have loved for him to step up to being the leader this season but the mucking up of team chemistry falls on a lot of shoulders and fixing it isn't an easy job.  And don't forget that Deng is co-captain here too this year.  Where was he when all of this was going on?

Maybe if everyone else was having a stellar season and only Hinrich sucked, but that isn't the case.  The good news is that most of the players, including Hinrich, are coming back around as of January.  Duhon is benched.  Wallace is gone.  The young players are getting more playing time.  There is hope.

by cranscape on Feb 28, 2008 3:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

there is hope
you are right, but when is the last time you saw a young, athletic player entering his prime play worse than when he was a rookie.  hopefully, this is his bad year, and next year, he returns to form.

by Conor on Feb 28, 2008 3:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Part of the
"key's to success" or whatnot that people had listed over the summer for the Bulls to take the next step was Kirk kicking his game up a notch.  He certainly didn't do that this season, but to me that was one of many problems that added up to where we are now.    I find Kirk serviceable and moreso now that the tempo of the game has sped up and Wallace isn't giving us a 4 on 5 offense.  I also think that everyone is expendable because of what happened this season. IMO Kirk handles the ball the best on our team so if we did get someone else he'd have to be that good or better from the start.  It would be great if we could find a rookie to do that, but with the way Bulls treat their rookies...I don't know if I'd wish that on anyone.  :)

Another thought is: who do we want our team built around?  Some teams do build around guys like Nash, but it certainly isn't a requirement.  Perhaps we should focus on another position to build around and survive with a serviceable guy like Hinrich.

by cranscape on Feb 28, 2008 3:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ah Ha! Push my button, why don't you?
Please don't build around a player the way the Suns "built around Nash". He was actually an addition (okay, THE addition) to the other three (4 if you count Barbosa) that were already there. F.O. moves since then have systematically lessened the team (from the low-ball contract offer to JJ that alienated him, to the constant trade talks finally ending it with Shawn) to the point it may now be truly broken.

Maybe there's something else to be learned there too. You could really have it all if you add the right piece to a youthful core, as long as you plan ahead. I hope that's what Paxson will do; not bank on the mediocre role players that some newbie B-a-B-ers are so enthralled with. He has shown foresight in employing the front loaded contracts, at least.

Clearly, Deng, Kirk, BG, Sefo, TT, Noah, and Gray are that youthful core. IMO, even the least of them could much more than "NBA role player", and the best of them already are. But if you trade too much of that for "the right piece" or a "star" to add to Nocioni, Hughes and Gooden, and you'll be stuck in NBA purgatory, battling each year reach CLE, WAS, and TOR, maybe getting there with a break or two.

And that's all I have against Noc, and Hughes/Gooden. Or Duhon. They're all decent players, really!

by marionette on Feb 28, 2008 5:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I know Nash's story
Even though his trade year was from the time I was shunning the NBA I had been watching the NBA with only a couple interruptions since 1989.  Nash was one of the reasons I tuned in again.  

I meant that the dominant player on the team doesn't have to come from that position even if there are a few success stories like the Suns where the guard does make everyone better. A serviceable guy would do if you have that dominant player in another position.  Trading Hinrich away won't fix our problems.  We'd have to find that dominant, unselfish, brilliant guard and that just doesn't happen often or everyone would have them.  We'd be just getting another serviceable guard that would require other players on the team to step up. Which they have yet to do consistently.  

Might as well find a star that is available, at any position, than to trade away our young talent for a guard you hope might prove himself.  Because the strength of the team doesn't necessarily have to come from the guard position.

by cranscape on Feb 28, 2008 8:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We're in basic agreement on this
and "newbie slander" was meant for those that seem to think we got a couple of stars from CLE, instead of guys they'd been trying to get rid of for longer than we were down on Wallace. But it is good that the offense is able to work at least 4 1/2 on 5 now!

I'd go so far as to point out that that dominant player can be easy to defend in the sense that the defense knows who/what to stop, where the focus needs to be. (A big frustration as a Suns viewer). So I think Kirk/BG/Thabo at guard might be enough to get the Bulls where they want to be, or headed there anyway. And being one of the youngest teams now means there's some time to evaluate the roster.

I see the situation like DET before they got (stole?) 'Sheed. The offense should improve without Wallace, and if they can get back to their signature defensive play (a big IF, and Kirk's a big part of that), they'll be back to competitive next year, one piece or move away that would get them over the top. (Maybe you think that would necessarily be a dominant superstar?)

But I really do like Conley Jr, on the other hand!

by marionette on Feb 29, 2008 4:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

looks to me like
he is still suffering the mental/emotional after-effects of losing his spot last summer on the big team with USA Basketball.

The sad fact is ... at the highest levels of hoop, Kirk is just an average basketball player.

by khandor on Feb 28, 2008 3:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i have been a hinrich fan
but he is making the team worse.  you know how derron williams, chris paul, steve nash, barron davis, rajon rando!!!!, chauncey, broy, jkidd, jordan farmar, and tony parker all make their teams a lot better, well kirk has had the total opposite affect this year.  plug in any of those guys on this bulls roster, and the bulls would be an elite team, if not the team to beat in the east.  there is no question things got off to a shaky start this year, but kirk has been consistently awful.  except for that game where he made travis deiner look like an ass.  who gets tossed from a game for arguing who tipped it out of bounds?!?!  that was bone-headed territory occupied by only the extreme special ed nba players, ie bonzi wells, nick van exel, sheed, and now capt kirk, our fearless leader

but matt, you are probably right, i am dreaming if i think the bulls could move up in the draft by trading kirk.  hopefully, this is just a nightmare fluke year from kirk.

by Conor on Feb 28, 2008 1:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I want Mike Conley
I don't think Memphis wants to deal him though.  They have Navarro, Crittendon, Lowery and Conley at PG.  One, if not two, of these guys will be dealt this Summer.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 2:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Conley Jr. is going to be a stud
But, I'm pretty sure the Grizz are very happy with their future (and current cheap) all stae point guard.

The Bulls might want to try for Navarro (he's not a pure point guard (yeah - I said it, bite me :P) , but he can score and his ball handling is pretty good.

by RogersPark Kris on Feb 28, 2008 2:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

you agree
the bulls need a new point guard?

by Conor on Feb 28, 2008 3:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd like an established distributor
that has solid court vision.  I think Mike Conley Jr. has that.  Rumblings out of Memphis seem to indicate that Chris Wallace sees it too.  He's still young, but he was a real surprise at Ohio State last season.  Oden was hurt a lot and Conley was a huge reason they didn't just fall off.

Kirk is above average, but looking forward at 11, 10, 9 million dollar seasons makes me think we can do much better.

I'd love to pluck Ricky Rubio out of Spain.  He doesn't meet the NBA age requirements though.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 3:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think it was the Memphis Plain Dealer
beat writer.  I read it via True Hoop.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 4:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess my bigger point is
you need a report to think that Memphis may not want to deal their 20-year-old PG that they just selected 4th overall?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 28, 2008 4:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Interviews with Chris Wallace
were right to the point.  When asked which point guard the Grizzlies will keep, Chris Wallace would not rule out dealing Mike Conley Jr.

One of the interviews is the Daily Dish with Chad Ford.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Feb 29, 2008 8:24 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

depth at sf.
The thing about it is how many top flight sfs are there in the league? Im not saying pay Gordon over Deng. Dengs value is higher than gordons and he will fetch more in return. Thabo, NOCE, and TT (in a big lineup) can all handle the position adequately. Face it guys TY is a 3/4 not a 4. IMO If he really is the bulls superstar trading one of Deng, Noce, or Gooden is a neccessary evil.

by Blacknight23 on Feb 28, 2008 2:00 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

that adds up to
four and three quarters!

I'm tired of saying I'm tired of something, but what positions these guys can play vs. what position they're best at isn't hard to figure out, or at least there isn't a new wrinkle every day.

Hinrich and the team perform better when he's at point guard, Thomas really is big enough to play power forward, Nocioni isn't good enough to play anywhere for extended minutes, Gordon really has scored proficiently and efficiently enough to reconcile his wildly exaggerated flaws, Deng is fine at small forward, Gooden and Hughes are average at best and not upgrades over the 'core', etc.

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Feb 28, 2008 2:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think you need a hammer
to beat such reasoning into some people...im agreeing with you 100% by the way.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Feb 28, 2008 3:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree
with him too.
Kirk Hinrump is dead to me. :-)

by sue369 on Feb 28, 2008 4:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You're wrong about Benny the Bull and Noce
I'm getting tired of posting these numbers but I will as long as these misconceptions persist.

This is net +- adjusted per 100 possessions for the whole season.

Noah   +8,6
Thomas +3,8
Thabo  +3,5
Noce   +3,3
Kirk   -0,1
Duh    -0,2
Gray   -3,5
Deng   -3,6
Gordon -7,3

LH     -1,4
Gooden -15,9 (But they have not played enough minutes for a statistical basis.)

Also Noah is the ONLY Bull with a positive ON-floor for 100 pos.

Benny the Bull is the ONLY Bull with a positive OFF-floor per 100 pos.

Come to grips with that one, Benny lovers ;)

by Bass on Feb 29, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

it's a wonky season
Gordon has a good plus-minus track record, and Nocioni has a bad one. Only showing 3/5 of a season (or wherever we're at) seems like an attempt at creating a misconception.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Feb 29, 2008 1:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree as well
I'm new, but even in my short time its enough with the TT position discussion.  He's young!!! get over it everyone!  His size and skillset are not the issues; his youth and mismanagement by the coaching staff are the issues.

by Coach Van Lier on Feb 29, 2008 9:04 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

oops sorry...
Apparently using the "reply to this" button is an issue too. Hahaha.

by Coach Van Lier on Feb 29, 2008 9:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hinrich
Whatever he did to get on Boylans bad side how can we get him to do it again?  every game?

BG and Hughes is the winning combo at the end of games and should really be the starters.  Gordon's shot will usually not be so bad, but without the pressure of being the only scorer he was able to create and Hughes was able to score enough to win.  I'm more tired than anybody by the silly debate over Hinrich and Gordon because Gordon is obviously better and I am right and have been right all along.  Its about time Boylan and the Bolgabull nation have begun to see the light.

by Zac23 on Feb 29, 2008 10:32 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

bolgabull
ha my bad

by Zac23 on Feb 29, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Gordon is fine.
Whatever to this whole argument, I think the question of whether Gordon (and now Hughes) are talented is a moot one.  They both are effective on the offensive end.  The problem I have is with the shot selection and the complete refusal to get other people involved unless they have dribbled into a trap or a double-team (this applies to Nocioni as well).  I think we need a coach who can just tell them "take good shots or sit" and then actually bench them for not taking good shots.  Boylan/Skiles benches guys for not playing defense, but what about for bad shots?  We see it all the time in college and on other pro teams.  If they lose PT for taking too many jumpers, they won't take as many jumpers!  Get a coach who will coach them!!  I can't stand Jim Boylan.  I could coach this team better than him, and clearly I'm no John Wooden.

by Coach Van Lier on Feb 29, 2008 11:04 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

shot selection
is a strange concept on this team.  I'd give Gordon and Hughes the green light to shoot, but aside from them I'm not confident in any other Bull to take a low percentage shot or even a high percentage shot.  Noc has game but i get nervous when he just starts chucking (even when he makes them).  I think that is due to a  lack of scorers on the bulls.  I mean Joe Smith's mid range jump shot was largely responsible for many of our first half W's (sad).  This is why Tyrus needs to start, he seems to have worked on his mid range jump shot.  Sefo has been promising in this area too.  In the NBA you cannot win when the other team knows that at least 2 of your 5 players cannot score, why Ben Wallace was not good on this team and why Duhon no longer plays.  And to sound like a broken i'm not too impressed with Hinrich's offense.  more importantly whats up with luol deng?  looks like he probably should have taken the extension and like pax really messed up making deng and hinrich untradeabull with KG on the table.

The game inside the paint is still too much of a mystery to me for the Bulls even tho i am confident it could be a force come playoff time.  But until then they will rely on perimeter shooting.  

by Zac23 on Feb 29, 2008 11:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

well
I guess that settles it.  We can all go home now.
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Feb 29, 2008 11:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

True.
What do you think? 70 or more wins next year?

by RogersPark Kris on Feb 29, 2008 11:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This really is Stormin' Norman
And you better make me coach.  No one will be taking bad shots or missing defensive assignments.  I don't care if they are making 15 million dollars, they will run suicides until their feet fall off.  Back in my day blah blah blah....

by Coach Van Lier on Feb 29, 2008 11:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You forgot
48 minutes of INTEN-SITAY
Kirk Hinrich. The Best White American Point Guard in the NBA.

by piccolomair on Feb 29, 2008 12:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Granger suspended 1 game
for his cheap shot elbow to Nocioni.

http://www.nba.com/news/granger_suspend_080229.html?rss=true

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Feb 29, 2008 3:43 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Interesting
Wasn't even called as a foul in the game, and the league office sees it as meriting a suspension.  No wonder the guys on the bench were hot.

(And yes, I realize refs don't catch everything, so no need to point that out!)

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Feb 29, 2008 3:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

glad it was reviewed
cause he should have been tossed for it during the game.

by Jaina on Feb 29, 2008 3:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly!
Kirk should feel vindicated. I'm glad they did something.

by sue369 on Feb 29, 2008 4:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree.
The guys on the bench were clearly not just whining at the refs in that instance.  Something had actually happened.  Bonus points for our guys not sitting around letting stuff like that slide.

by cranscape on Feb 29, 2008 4:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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Detroit Pistons center Chris Wilcox, left, grabs a rebound over Phoenix Suns center Amare Stoudemire, right, in the first quarter of an NBA basketball game Sunday, Nov. 22, 2009, in Phoenix. (AP Photo/Paul Connors) link

Amare, Nash Key Suns Blowout Of Pistons

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Miami Heat's Udonis Haslem (40) and Mario Chalmers (6) celebrate after Haslem scored in the fourth quarter of an NBA basketball game against the New Orleans Hornets in Miami, Sunday, Nov. 22, 2009. The Heat won 102-101. (AP Photo/Alan Diaz) link

Haslem's Late Jumper Helps Heat Sting Hornets 102-101

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Charlotte Bobcats forward Boris Diaw, left, of France, looks to pass around Indiana Pacers forward Danny Granger in the first half of an NBA basketball game in Charlotte, N.C., on Sunday, Nov. 22, 2009. The Bobcats won 104-88. (AP Photo/Nell Redmond) link

Bobcats End Losing Skid, Top Pacers 104-88

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