Bulls escape with win, Boylan escapes with my sanity
That was a must-win tonight, if you consider the playoff 'push' worth pursuing (and I do, cause...why not?). Philly and Atlanta won, and the Bulls were against an inferior team that they maddeningly let hang around for 3 quarters.
But they did pull out the win, and while nobody played exceptional there were some decent performances. Larry Hughes had 29 points and rescued the ice-cold Ben Gordon (in the 4th quarter especially, isn't it a treat to have another actual willing scorer on the team?). Progressively each game, there's more evidence that Hughes' rep for bad shot selection will eventually catch up with him. Luckily for the Bulls, tonight he was making some ill-advised jumpers (and leaners), and went to the line 10 times. For his part, Gordon complemented him (when not making some awful shot-selection decisions himself) by being quite the playmaker in the 4th, finishing with 6 assists. I thought Nocioni did a good job in a limited role, and Deng looks almost back, just without his pet mid-range jump shot.
Now to Boylan, who is doing an overall average job but is developing some bad habits with his new toybox. One is pulling Tyrus Thomas first in each half, 7 minutes into the first, and 4 minutes into the 2nd. Another is pulling Noah when the other team goes 'small'. Confusing the idea of going small, which isn't to 'go short' but to 'go quick'. Noah is an ideal center against a small-ball lineup, big enough to exploit it on the glass, yet agile enough to chase around his opponents when they space the floor. But perhaps this isn't an indictment of either Thomas or Noah, it's merely Boylan finding excuses to get Drew Gooden into the game. He actually finished with only 25 (compared to Noah's 26) minutes, but played 18 minutes in the 2nd half.
No doubt that he helped down the stretch, but it's a disturbing trend that this team should be avoiding: sticking with the 'trusted' instead of Thomas and Noah, who have been playing so well (and are so important long-term) they should be not only the starting but the closing frontcourt most games. If they look like they're having an off night (or are in foul trouble, and neither was the case tonight), then playing Gooden is more productive than doing the same with Ben Wallace, but it's looking more and more like Gooden's the default option as the game goes on, and I'm not liking it.
Other negatives included Hinrich, who was pulled a couple possessions in the 2nd half by and apparently angered Boylan and never returned. Thabo had his worst game in a while, but I must say that jump shot is looking better. Aaron Gray was useless in his 7 minutes, and had no business being out there against the Pacers space-and-chuck lineup.
But it was the end of a road trip and the win was likely going to be tough. Now there's another very winnable contest Friday (at home against the banged-up Wiz) before the showdown with our old friend Ben Wallace and the Cavaliers. So far I'm really enjoying what Gooden and Hughes bring to the team, I just want Boylan to show me a little less of it.
0 recs |
188 comments
Comments
while hughes is still settling
by Mike C on Feb 27, 2008 10:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I was wondering what his halftime splits were
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 27, 2008 11:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or
Can he get to the free throw line or what? Even Travis Deiner was getting to the line.
I was surprised with Ben's ball handling in the 4th. I was expecting more turnovers. He didn't have that many - 3 for the game - but he still seemed unsure of what to do with the ball getting pressed out 8 feet beyond the arc by the Pacers big trailing the screening Bulls player.
When that perimeter screen comes Ben has to get better at either dribbling to juke his man or faster to blow right past him.
Heck, even Mike Dunleavey was living at the line in the 4th quarter.
by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 8:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
hughes should have taken more advantage too. most of his free throws were in the first half (he got fouled on like 3 consecutive plays including that clear path diener foul)...
but that's one thing. they NEVER take advantage of being in the penalty. i've complained about that before.
i'm surprised the free throw difference was only 6. seemed like they were getting to the line a lot.
by Jaina on Feb 28, 2008 9:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Perimeter Screens
by Gene Banks on Feb 28, 2008 9:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds dead on.
by Kemp on Feb 27, 2008 11:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Gooden and Hughes
A guy that can create his own shots and make plays for teammates with his passing, gets to the foul line, good slasher, big guard, very good defender, good scorer
And a guy that can score inside, has to be guarded, you can post him up (First real post option we have had in 5 years), very good rebounder on both ends, and a very good option to run pick and roll with, athletic true power forward, solid passer from inside and he can get to the line himself..... unlike Big Ben, you have to guard him inside and he's a true post-up and pick/roll option that can score in all those ways. That opens up alot for our other talent, especially when compared to Big Ben.
Those were two big needs for us. That's a helluva acquisition both in their 20's in return for our two oldest players that had no longterm plans with us, we got much better for the future with that move and alot better for the rest of this year as well. VERY NICE TO SEE!
IM PERSONALLY LOVING THE ROTATION! TY AND NOAH GET THEIR MINUTES TO DEVELOP, AND WE'RE PLAYING THE BEST PLAYERS TO CLOSE IN ORDER tO wiN! Great job!
by Deng is the next Bull superstar on Feb 27, 2008 11:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
A little support
Yes, the team responded and the minutes given to each guy are reasonable. No need to bash on anybody since they all were decent. Just remember they were the Pacers -who seem to have a secret recipe to blow games in the 4th quarter. And the key presences were Larry -clawing back in the 3rd quarter after the Pacers made a run- and Noce -pulling away in the 4th quarter.
by Sky on Feb 28, 2008 9:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My boy Deng
by Deng is the next Bull superstar on Feb 27, 2008 11:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Getting there
by Sky on Feb 28, 2008 9:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe Deng's patented pull-up
He needs to change it up a bit. I've seen him occasionally drive it all the way to the hole, but I haven't seen him try the tear drop runner in those situations.
He's getting there, but he's not quite back yet. And he needs to show us more--more production, more versatility, more spectacular plays, everything--if he ever is going to break through to that next level.
by bullhockey on Feb 28, 2008 10:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you correcting for the achilles tendonitis?
by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 10:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Shouldn't have been so close
Those flaws were covered up by Hughes' scoring, but will haunt them when he's not hot. When Gooden was out there, they didn't get him the ball at all on the block, preferring to have BG and Larry dribble out the shot clock. Only in the 4th quarter did Ben start to penetrate and find cutters. Of course, if Deng can cut on the baseline without the ball, why can't Tyrus?
Not sure what happened with Kirk, but the the anti-Duhon population must have enjoyed seeing just how disengaged he was at every dead ball. He knew that there was absolutely no chance that he would get in.
by Gene Banks on Feb 27, 2008 11:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I didnt like that either
Like you said, they dont give it to him on the block when he has his man sealed and has good position either and I hate that, but I dotn think the bulls know how to play inside/out after 2+ years of Ben Wallace inside...... and I cant blame them.
So yeah, I agree with you. Gotta go to Drew more in the post, he's got some skills. A good pointguard on the floor with him instead of the BG/LH backcourt would help things alot as well, get Hinrich out there in one of their places and that will change in a HUGE HUGE way.
by Deng is the next Bull superstar on Feb 28, 2008 12:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Where was this all season?
I think I saw this baseline cut by a Bulls wing player more times last night than I have seen it all season.
by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 8:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Deng and Thomas are two different players
Which is why you can't turn Thomas into a Marion clone and why Thomas isn't a SF. Deng has a lot more in common with Marion than Thomas does. Thomas is a guy you have to give the ball to offensively and let him create. Which is why the Deng/Thomas pairing should work nicely with Thomas with the ball and Deng cutting off of him. But, the team has to consistently give Thomas the ball 1st.
by Scotter on Feb 28, 2008 11:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's my point
I also wouldn't trust Thomas' handle right now. He is much more likely than Deng to dribble himself into trouble and fumble it away. Too often, the ball sticks in his hands and we're left watching an awkward attempt at a finish.
That's not to diminish his ability to get to the cup and draw a foul, I just don't want to foreclose the opportunity to get 3-4 easy baskets a game capitalizing on his athleticism.
by Gene Banks on Feb 28, 2008 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
we also saw a lob pass
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 28, 2008 11:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Progress
Hughes did some good things out there. He also did some chucking. He apparently, like so many other Bulls players, is not afraid of pulling up for the 20+ footer while running the 1-2 on 4 break with no one near the hoop to rebound.
Gooden was a ball hawk and a rebound magnet, especially in the second half. It seemed like the ball couldn't come down anywhere but where he was.
Gordon did a better job distributing the ball than we are accustomed to seeing. Then again, when you're shooting poorly, and you have legitimate reason to be concerned about staying on the floor, it is probably only natural that you look to contribute in some other way. I kind of wish he would do that more often, but I guess competition might force him to.
Moving forward, it is the actions of Boylan that I think spoke loudest about how the rest of the season will play out. He clearly loves himself some Drew Gooden, which is alright I guess unless the guy who goes to the bench in favor of Gooden has serious potential(which our boy Tyrus Thomas does). If Drew must be out there, then how about a little less Aaron Gray? Like none.
I think the writing is on the wall. Drew will eventually be handed the starting PF job. I'm guessing Thabo is not long for his starting gig either. It's a shame, too, because I think the lineups of the last few games had some potential. I would be agreeable to Kirk, Thabo, Deng, TT, Noah, Gooden, Gordon, Hughes and Nocioni all sharing time equally. We've got some good depth, but there is a serious dropoff after these guys. So let's roll with them. And for Christ's sake Paxson, get Boylan the fuck out of there if he won't.
by MarketMaker on Feb 28, 2008 12:24 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I wish Hughes to play like this
Cavs fans don't realize what they got in Corpse.
Do they know his nickname yet?
P.S.Any information about Khryapa?The guy would burryed even deeper after this trade.
by Azabullsfan on Feb 28, 2008 12:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Veektor signed with CSKA Moscow
http://mnweekly.ru/sport/20080221/55311158.html
by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 9:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i was there to...
by bullzfan148 on Feb 28, 2008 6:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Not mentioned yet
by paxson43 on Feb 28, 2008 6:16 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yes he did
by sue369 on Feb 28, 2008 6:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought something had happened.
by cranscape on Feb 28, 2008 7:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Och, never mind.
by cranscape on Feb 28, 2008 7:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No the article
by sue369 on Feb 28, 2008 7:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I watched the play a few times
Granger rolled from right wing to the baseline to run around a double screen. He was looking to get the ball at the free throw line at the left elbow. He didn't get the ball because Nocioni was glued to him. When the ball was dribbled to the left perimeter, Granger whipped his left elbow right at Noc's face. Granger even cocked his elbow just prior to hitting Noc in the nose.
Granger was frustrated by Noc all night. The only shots he was getting were 3 point attempts. 16 of his 10 shots were from the 3 point territory.
by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 9:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Noc was riding him
by Gene Banks on Feb 28, 2008 9:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There was a play
by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 9:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Along with what was mentioned above,
When that didn't work, he abandoned calling for the ball on the left block and cut through the lane. He was coming through the lane and hit Noc in the face, right near the free throw line.
The refs last night were particularly bad with some calls and non-calls against the Bulls. They tried to make up for it later with some calls/non-calls against the Pacers, but this doesn't change the fact that Noc got 'cheap shotted' in plain sight with no repercussions to Granger. I hope the league looks at this.
We all pick on Noc for boneheaded roaming on defense, but what gets lost is that other than his roaing, he can be a really good man-to-man defender. It drives people like Jermaine O'Neal and Vince Carter crazy, which is why it's popular to hate him. You'd hope the refs see through this, but it doesn't seem like they do.
by bullhockey on Feb 28, 2008 10:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I like this defense
Granger's their best player with O'neal on the shelf.
by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 10:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure Rodman
He may have been cheapshotted, but I was pretty peeved seeing the refs take 5 minutes just to talk to Noc, and then have to hear Hinrich chirping from the bench for good measure. I can't believe that the Bulls get any favors from the officials mainly because of the way those two behave.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 28, 2008 11:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Noc was on fire
by Sky on Feb 28, 2008 9:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever happened with Hinrich...
by Coach Van Lier on Feb 28, 2008 8:46 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hinrich couldn't guard Diener
I think Boylan had points and defensive expectations that were very high for Kirk last night. He didn't come close to meeting those expectations so Boylan sat him.
The quick foul in the 2nd half didn't help Kirk get a chance.
by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 9:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
in fact
however, his game wasn't a total bust. 6 pts (2-2 on 3s, only took 1 other shot), 3 assists, 2 steals.
he wasn't being as aggressive as that night, since he only took 3 shots, which may have been the cause for the hook. and he was being beat. but for only playing 16 min his stats aren't awful.
by Jaina on Feb 28, 2008 9:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, and if that's the case
Boylan is REALLY bad...
by Bass on Feb 28, 2008 9:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That was one of my objections to the whole thing
But I'm still more curious about the post-game comments. Boylan has been so careful since he took over to be ultra-positive, even when it has sounded idiotic. Lots of "we competed" and "riding the hot hand" - so I find it interesting that he didn't go that route last night. Given his history, I would have expected it to be more of a "Kirk was a little off to start the second half, then other guys got hot and I went with them." It should at least limit the Kirk-as-teacher's-pet comments, since this is the second time Boylan has been (for him) a little hard-ass with Kirk. (The first being that whole "earn your way back in after injury" thing)
by wjb1492 on Feb 28, 2008 9:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed
by piccolomair on Feb 28, 2008 11:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
either hinrich or gordon..
by Jaina on Feb 28, 2008 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Most of the time
by piccolomair on Feb 28, 2008 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sending a message
by El Toro de Goro on Feb 28, 2008 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is it good coaching
by piccolomair on Feb 28, 2008 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That was an awkward sequence
I thought Hughes had injured himself.
by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If it means anything
by piccolomair on Feb 28, 2008 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Boylan has saved me.
by tyger1147 on Feb 28, 2008 9:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
that's true
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 28, 2008 9:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For what it's worth...
by tyger1147 on Feb 28, 2008 9:12 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Nothing
by Bass on Feb 28, 2008 9:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone think....
A thought anyway.
by tyger1147 on Feb 28, 2008 9:25 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
There's just that little problem of money...
by wjb1492 on Feb 28, 2008 9:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Right
the main problem is are we really going to commit 10+ mil a year to someone we've deemed a bench guy? i just don't see it.
and i'm ok with thabo coming off the bench as long as he gets minutes in. a gordon/sef backcourt could be very turnover prone though. and in a way it's for that that maybe he should come off the bench. he needs to reduce his traveling calls. he looks great out there and i really like thabo, and if he gets decent minutes off the bench, but there's a couple things he needs to improve and if he gets minutes coming off the bench, that's okay with me.
by Jaina on Feb 28, 2008 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
we dont need gordon anymore
by Jbasic89 on Feb 28, 2008 9:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This team struggled scoring with Gordon
by tyger1147 on Feb 28, 2008 9:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When has Hughes been good?
by tyger1147 on Feb 28, 2008 9:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gordon is the best
by piccolomair on Feb 28, 2008 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Money for sure.
Anyway, I like Thabo more than Hughes, too, but I don't think there's anyway of getting rid of Hughes and his contract. And Gordon is way better than Thabo.
by tyger1147 on Feb 28, 2008 9:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Transitive math?
Didn't look like that last night when Ben was throwing brick after brick.
by Sky on Feb 28, 2008 9:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not math class, dingus.
by tyger1147 on Feb 28, 2008 9:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
To explain the logic...
Sheesh.
by tyger1147 on Feb 28, 2008 9:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Trade Ben now.
by Sky on Feb 28, 2008 9:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
trade deng too
by hscs on Feb 28, 2008 11:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
'playoff run'?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 28, 2008 11:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
no kidding
by hscs on Feb 28, 2008 11:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
one good playoff series makes him the playoff guy?
by Parrotman on Feb 28, 2008 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not necessarily so
Noce is a solid role player. He'll never be a star but he is a plus for the team. At many times during this season, it looked like he was the only guy willing to play through thick and thin. Deng is a more talented player overall, no question. But he still has plenty to prove. He hasn't lived up to expectations yet.
by Sky on Feb 28, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kirk Hinrich is 13th in the NBA in assists/gm
by tyger1147 on Feb 28, 2008 9:26 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
AND
Imagine how he might do with an actual front court option....interesting
by majoyenrac on Feb 28, 2008 11:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Majoyenerec
by Deng is the next Bull superstar on Feb 28, 2008 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i wish they woulda done this trade a lot sooner
by Jbasic89 on Feb 28, 2008 9:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Value? What value?
by Sky on Feb 28, 2008 10:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Slightly disagree Sky
Lots of teams could use him, especially the Raptors or Pacers (Or Bulls) IMHO.
As long as we resign Deng Im happy as can be. I like BG too, would love to see him back as long as he doesnt want too much money, he is starting to show a little bit of promise at PG in a Gilbert/Monta Ellis-style of PG...... hmmm.......
by Deng is the next Bull superstar on Feb 28, 2008 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
a long time advocate of this shift in player usage
Glad to see Boylen's roots in hoops ... stretching all the way back to Marquette, with (Balloons & Seashells) Al ... finally start to kick in.
BLT ... baby!
(Go Warriors!)
by khandor on Feb 28, 2008 10:01 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Give Boylan a break, Matt
by Sky on Feb 28, 2008 10:16 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Bound to happen
I can't place my finger on why this happens. If Tyrus has actually done something to go back to the bench, explain it to me. The man knows the system better than Gooden and has more value to the future of this team.
There is no reason he should have even been yanked outta the first quarter so early last night considering he was affecting the game very positively.
It's clear now the only way to develop Thomas or Noah with Boylan is to eliminate anyone he sub in for them.
I really don't see it as coincidence that both had their best game of the year (opinion) against Denver. They both knew they weren't getting yanked for lame reasons and both played with great confidence and it showed on the court.
by Option27 on Feb 28, 2008 10:17 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, we knew this was coming
I still say we do a "Celtic Pride" on the whole Bulls "coaching staff"...
And you're spot on with your last comment. I want that starting lineup back. Sit BG next to duhon and plug the rest in to back-up roles. (Yes, I DO see the problem with LH and Gooden in agreeing on this...)
by Bass on Feb 28, 2008 10:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thomas isn't
by JeffD on Feb 28, 2008 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He finds his own way to score in the post
And if he gets even more time, he might develop some more to that post game
by Option27 on Feb 28, 2008 10:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Impossible
by Deng is the next Bull superstar on Feb 28, 2008 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL!
I think the only thing they have in common is 5 letters in their name
by Option27 on Feb 28, 2008 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They're both 6"8, actually
by Bass on Feb 29, 2008 12:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
nice catch Option
Boylan sucks, although if Tyrus at least stays at 25+ he'll do well enough to guarantee sticking on the team, at least.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 28, 2008 10:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you listen to KC on Mike North's show
KC was making a case to keep Boylan at the same time he was making a case that keeping Boylan isn't necessarily a good idea.
by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 10:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I'm starting to get a bad feeling about it...
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 28, 2008 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
listen at your own risk
(scroll to KC Johnson 2/27/2008)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 28, 2008 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, Matt :)
by Bass on Feb 28, 2008 11:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, I understand the warning...
by Bass on Feb 28, 2008 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Boylan on the cheap
by Gene Banks on Feb 28, 2008 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I like what he did last night, but part of that was because he hit the vast majority of his ill-advised shots.
I would rather see Gordon be our chucker because Gordon has a fabulous shot, even when he's off, his shot looks good and he's got a better chucker history.
I do like the flexibility we have though with our guard rotation and I do like seeing Hughes and Gordon in the backcourt.
Gooden as I mentioned in the Gooden post, is a legitimate starting PF, which is nice to see, he adds a depth to our inside outside game that we haven't had in CHicago in years.....he's not a star PF, but a very solid role playing PF. I think he should be the starter for the rest of the year and we can work Tyrus into a backup PF/backup SF.
Deng? He better get back to form soon, he played slightly better perhaps on D yesterday (but you never know because he was guarding Dunleavy instead of Josh Howard). He made a few nice drives yesterday but doesn't seem to be back to his old self.....given that, let's give Noc more time. I like Nocioni and for the most part he makes solid plays (although he too often tends to shoot a 3 (mostly open) but shoots the 3 ball too often when their will be 3 guys of the other team under the boards and 0-1 Bull, so that's annoying, but still he's playing more competently than Deng....and as I've mentioned I'd like to see more Tyrus at the 3 too, let's give Deng mroe time to heal.
I agree totally with your Noah comments....
Hinrich looked AWFUL yesterday too.
Nice to see my Marquette Alumnus Diener playing his pro game of his life....he still has little D, but that was no bother for a while when Kirk had no energy, D or O yesteday.....Hughes reminded Indiana why they can't win though with Dienier as their starting PG, because for all his nice offensive talents, he's probably amongst the worst defenders in the league considering he looks like he's 15 (the lambchops I guess make him look 17), is slight of build, and is far worse than even Nash on D....still he looked awesome on offense yesterday.
by majoyenrac on Feb 28, 2008 10:34 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Rosen
You gotta love the wide spreading Wallace hate
by Option27 on Feb 28, 2008 10:37 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Rosen.
by bullhockey on Feb 28, 2008 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
-17 against the Celtics for "Big Ben"
by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 11:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Arm Sleeves Eh
That was 20 seconds of your life you'll never get back, sorry...
by piccolomair on Feb 28, 2008 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wear finger sleeves for blogging.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 28, 2008 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That explains a lot. ;)
by wjb1492 on Feb 28, 2008 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thats
by piccolomair on Feb 28, 2008 11:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
meant street
by piccolomair on Feb 28, 2008 11:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
where
by Blacknight23 on Feb 28, 2008 11:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
15 mil is from Sam Smith
Yes, you negotiate. But if the first offer is good do you continue to needle the club for another 2 million per season? This was quite a gamble for Gordon considering he's a major defensive liability.
Things may work out, but I just don't know what Ben thinks he is worth per season.
by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 12:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
of course you needle
by hscs on Feb 28, 2008 12:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
BG's not a defensive liability
I really kind of like seeing Gordon at Point, and now that we have a post-up option that has to be guarded keeping the defense honest and we can pick/roll with him as a great option as well (With BG/Gooden)......... I dont know, I guess Im just trying to say that I DO remember how he looked with a post-up option. And it was great, and Im starting to see it again now with Gooden here. That is GREAT.
Im starting to think Gordon could improve as a Pg and im liking seeing him run point with the ball in his hands. He gets it to Hughes, he doesnt know how to feed Gooden inside on the screen/roll for a wide open dunk yet, and he doesnt make the entry pass when Gooden has his man sealed with his back-to-basket in the post..... but he can learn that. Sure those are all things that Kirk is better at, but I think BG can get better at it. And with his prowess playing off the ball it allows Hughes to have the ball in his hands to slash and create for himself and others, it allows Gooden to have it run through him in the post (BG is our best option to kick-out to for an open 3 when his defender cheats toward helping on Drew in the post), and it allows Deng to make plays here or there with the ball in his hands as well. Kirk cant play as well off the ball, not even close.....
Im REALLY starting to like BG at PG. He's really showing me alot as a Gilbert/Monta/Bibby/AI/Parker style of PG.
by Deng is the next Bull superstar on Feb 28, 2008 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
for real, it doesn't matter
If I had to guess, Gordon is probably among the bottom 25-50 defensive players in the entire NBA.
by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 2:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
old is new is old, again
BEN GORDON at the Point, for Chicago - with the other players now on the roster - is a solid 'strategic coaching decision' for the Bulls ...
especially if he's partnered with Sefolosha & Hughes (for defensive & rebounding purposes).
As a PG ... with decent size, strength & lateral quickness ... Ben Gordon ... in a movement-based offense, like the Triangle ... becomes a Lethal Weapon for his team, under the right coach, in the NBA.
Position/Starter - Reserves
POINT GUARDS/Gordon - Duhon (or Hinrich)
WINGS/Sefolosha, Hughes - Deng & Nocioni
BIGS/Thomas, Noah - Gray & Gooden
Chicago fans should be smiling from ear-to-ear at the mere mention of this possibility.
by khandor on Feb 28, 2008 3:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the triangle offense and the 46 defense
by hscs on Feb 28, 2008 4:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
of course
The key is that ... skilled players like Larry Hughes & Ben Gordon, who end up chucking shots in stagnant isolation Offenses, would actually do far less of this, if/when they get chances to move without the ball arbirarily, screening, cutting & passing the rock.
by khandor on Feb 28, 2008 7:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so the fact
by bullshooter on Feb 28, 2008 9:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
don't let the facts get in the way
by hscs on Feb 28, 2008 9:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What depth at SF? Please don't say Noce
by snley on Feb 28, 2008 12:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
right, they only have depth
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 28, 2008 12:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, you're leaving out the depth provide by
Then you have Ty who inexplicably plays there so often, and I'm almost positive I heard Red proposing Aaron Gray minutes at SF the other day....
In fact, the more I think about it, the more I realize that the Bulls should trade Deng and Noc to clear up that logjam.
by wjb1492 on Feb 28, 2008 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Red was in a hurry
by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Fan Logic Behind it all
In my oppinion, it comes down to Hinrich vs Gordon (ideally i would want them to trade Hughes and others for cap relief in the up coming season so they could sign some of the big guns that will be on the market in 2009). You could trade Hinrich, and resign Duhon (for alot less) and play hughes along side with gordon having thabo and duhon come off the bench for support. However, gordon is the better scorer hands down, and thus that might just make him alot better trade bait, or theres that little issue with his contract.
In that case keeping hinrich allows you to get a player who still brings defense, solid passing, and the ability to score some (not to mention costs less and less every season) not sign gordon or duhon, which will save you some money (or you could sign and trade the two for something) and get a new shooter in the draft ( i hear E. Gordon is a taller Ben Gordon).
Ben Gordon gets thrown out more, because despite his awesome scoring ability, he seems to be average in other areas where Hughes or Thabo (and in some areas kirk) out shine him. Sorry that was probably much longer than anyone cared to read, or confused people for no reason. I am a fan of Hinrich, but i tried to be unbiased with my reasoning...
by piccolomair on Feb 28, 2008 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Depth at small forward??
by cjurmann on Feb 28, 2008 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, you wonder
But if he can be that tall, long-range bomber with the Bulls, that would make everyone's job easier.
by bullhockey on Feb 28, 2008 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nichols should be playing for the Energy
We must be keeping him with the club right now because we expect Deng to miss more games. I don't think that's a worry now with Hughes here and Thabo getting SF playing time.
by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
don't fret
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 28, 2008 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wjb
Is it not working right--or am I not? Thanks.
by eGirl on Feb 28, 2008 12:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't working for me today either
by wjb1492 on Feb 28, 2008 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
hinrich's time may be up (should be up)
i have never seen a player regress as badly as hinrich has this year, and in my opinion, its why the bulls are 11 games under.
by Conor on Feb 28, 2008 1:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
uhhhh
Good luck with that.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 28, 2008 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
no faith
by Conor on Feb 28, 2008 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hinrich would be a tough trade
by RogersPark Kris on Feb 28, 2008 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
After the BYC is gone
Hollinger's post today (man I'm quoting Hollinger twice in one day, but his post today outside of the trade Tyrus comments were good) also said that on a real competitor having a guy as good as Nocioni on your bench is really a nice option to have.
I frankly hope the Bulls keep Noc....but I understand if we need to have him go to avoid the tax.
by majoyenrac on Feb 28, 2008 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So the fact
by cranscape on Feb 28, 2008 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, but
by Conor on Feb 28, 2008 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When Luol and Ben were in street clothes
by piccolomair on Feb 28, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kirk has to
by Takeaseat on Feb 28, 2008 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i know he has got to score
by Conor on Feb 28, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I get what ure saying
Hinrich by all means isnt untradeable, but i just dont comprehend this "biggest liability" reasoning that some people have been having. If there is anyone who on this team is not a liability at some point or another then i want to know who it is, cuz each of the players have thier days when they either are on the verge of stardom, or on the verge of being traded.
With so many guards, you can bet your bottom dollar someone will be gone in the offseason, but it wont be because they suck (duhon doesnt count) it will be because they for whatever reason arent needed.
by piccolomair on Feb 28, 2008 3:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kirk doesnt
by Takeaseat on Feb 28, 2008 4:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
BG, Noch,
by sue369 on Feb 28, 2008 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i am not denial
if miles davis sucked, then no one would have heard of herbie hancock. its that sort of thing.
i have always liked hinrich, but he sucks this year. Even boylan is sick of hinrich...BOYLAN people!!
by Conor on Feb 28, 2008 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In truth
by Kemp on Feb 28, 2008 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Miles Golden ERA Bulls.
SG: MJ/Miles
SF: Scottie/Wayne
PF: Rodman/Tony William
6th Man: Kukoc/Carter
by Kemp on Feb 28, 2008 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
awesome
by Conor on Feb 28, 2008 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Very nice...saw all these guys live,
by alec on Feb 28, 2008 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ron Carter
by Kemp on Feb 28, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Best Ron Carter appearance:
by Kemp on Feb 28, 2008 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This thread's about to fall into the abyss,
However (excuse me for a moment--how about that Larry Hughes, eh?), for purely sentimental reasons, I'd probably have to go with either A Tribute to Jack Johnson or Bitches Brew. My dad was a trumpet player (albeit classical), and was a great collector of all things trumpet, which permitted an early indoctrination into Miles Davis. A framed poster of the Tribute to Jack Johnson album cover (yes, kiddies, music used to come in suitcase-sized, rather than matchbook-sized formats) hung in the music room. To this day, I believe that cover photo of Miles Davis captures a certain essence of music-making as well as any other I've seen.
I got to see Miles on his one appearance at the Chicago Jazz Fest (1982?). A Tribune photog captured one lone kid, surrounded by a sea of empty seats, shirtless in the blazing summer sun, waiting patiently for that night's historical closing performance. That kid was me, and I still have that print, now framed and hanging on the wall next to Miles' Tribute portrait.
So, nice to meet you, Kemp.
by alec on Feb 29, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, you noob Hinrich haters have come out
Maybe if everyone else was having a stellar season and only Hinrich sucked, but that isn't the case. The good news is that most of the players, including Hinrich, are coming back around as of January. Duhon is benched. Wallace is gone. The young players are getting more playing time. There is hope.
by cranscape on Feb 28, 2008 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
there is hope
by Conor on Feb 28, 2008 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Part of the
Another thought is: who do we want our team built around? Some teams do build around guys like Nash, but it certainly isn't a requirement. Perhaps we should focus on another position to build around and survive with a serviceable guy like Hinrich.
by cranscape on Feb 28, 2008 3:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah Ha! Push my button, why don't you?
Maybe there's something else to be learned there too. You could really have it all if you add the right piece to a youthful core, as long as you plan ahead. I hope that's what Paxson will do; not bank on the mediocre role players that some newbie B-a-B-ers are so enthralled with. He has shown foresight in employing the front loaded contracts, at least.
Clearly, Deng, Kirk, BG, Sefo, TT, Noah, and Gray are that youthful core. IMO, even the least of them could much more than "NBA role player", and the best of them already are. But if you trade too much of that for "the right piece" or a "star" to add to Nocioni, Hughes and Gooden, and you'll be stuck in NBA purgatory, battling each year reach CLE, WAS, and TOR, maybe getting there with a break or two.
And that's all I have against Noc, and Hughes/Gooden. Or Duhon. They're all decent players, really!
by marionette on Feb 28, 2008 5:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I remember being a newbie, BTW
by marionette on Feb 28, 2008 5:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know Nash's story
I meant that the dominant player on the team doesn't have to come from that position even if there are a few success stories like the Suns where the guard does make everyone better. A serviceable guy would do if you have that dominant player in another position. Trading Hinrich away won't fix our problems. We'd have to find that dominant, unselfish, brilliant guard and that just doesn't happen often or everyone would have them. We'd be just getting another serviceable guard that would require other players on the team to step up. Which they have yet to do consistently.
Might as well find a star that is available, at any position, than to trade away our young talent for a guard you hope might prove himself. Because the strength of the team doesn't necessarily have to come from the guard position.
by cranscape on Feb 28, 2008 8:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We're in basic agreement on this
I'd go so far as to point out that that dominant player can be easy to defend in the sense that the defense knows who/what to stop, where the focus needs to be. (A big frustration as a Suns viewer). So I think Kirk/BG/Thabo at guard might be enough to get the Bulls where they want to be, or headed there anyway. And being one of the youngest teams now means there's some time to evaluate the roster.
I see the situation like DET before they got (stole?) 'Sheed. The offense should improve without Wallace, and if they can get back to their signature defensive play (a big IF, and Kirk's a big part of that), they'll be back to competitive next year, one piece or move away that would get them over the top. (Maybe you think that would necessarily be a dominant superstar?)
But I really do like Conley Jr, on the other hand!
by marionette on Feb 29, 2008 4:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
looks to me like
The sad fact is ... at the highest levels of hoop, Kirk is just an average basketball player.
by khandor on Feb 28, 2008 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i have been a hinrich fan
but matt, you are probably right, i am dreaming if i think the bulls could move up in the draft by trading kirk. hopefully, this is just a nightmare fluke year from kirk.
by Conor on Feb 28, 2008 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I want Mike Conley
by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 2:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Conley Jr. is going to be a stud
The Bulls might want to try for Navarro (he's not a pure point guard (yeah - I said it, bite me :P) , but he can score and his ball handling is pretty good.
by RogersPark Kris on Feb 28, 2008 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you agree
by Conor on Feb 28, 2008 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like an established distributor
Kirk is above average, but looking forward at 11, 10, 9 million dollar seasons makes me think we can do much better.
I'd love to pluck Ricky Rubio out of Spain. He doesn't meet the NBA age requirements though.
by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 3:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
" Rumblings out of Memphis..."
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 28, 2008 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it was the Memphis Plain Dealer
by NBA Observer on Feb 28, 2008 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess my bigger point is
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 28, 2008 4:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Interviews with Chris Wallace
One of the interviews is the Daily Dish with Chad Ford.
by NBA Observer on Feb 29, 2008 8:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
depth at sf.
by Blacknight23 on Feb 28, 2008 2:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
that adds up to
I'm tired of saying I'm tired of something, but what positions these guys can play vs. what position they're best at isn't hard to figure out, or at least there isn't a new wrinkle every day.
Hinrich and the team perform better when he's at point guard, Thomas really is big enough to play power forward, Nocioni isn't good enough to play anywhere for extended minutes, Gordon really has scored proficiently and efficiently enough to reconcile his wildly exaggerated flaws, Deng is fine at small forward, Gooden and Hughes are average at best and not upgrades over the 'core', etc.
by hscs on Feb 28, 2008 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you need a hammer
by piccolomair on Feb 28, 2008 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're wrong about Benny the Bull and Noce
This is net +- adjusted per 100 possessions for the whole season.
Noah +8,6
Thomas +3,8
Thabo +3,5
Noce +3,3
Kirk -0,1
Duh -0,2
Gray -3,5
Deng -3,6
Gordon -7,3
LH -1,4
Gooden -15,9 (But they have not played enough minutes for a statistical basis.)
Also Noah is the ONLY Bull with a positive ON-floor for 100 pos.
Benny the Bull is the ONLY Bull with a positive OFF-floor per 100 pos.
Come to grips with that one, Benny lovers ;)
by Bass on Feb 29, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it's a wonky season
by hscs on Feb 29, 2008 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree as well
by Coach Van Lier on Feb 29, 2008 9:04 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
oops sorry...
by Coach Van Lier on Feb 29, 2008 9:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hinrich
BG and Hughes is the winning combo at the end of games and should really be the starters. Gordon's shot will usually not be so bad, but without the pressure of being the only scorer he was able to create and Hughes was able to score enough to win. I'm more tired than anybody by the silly debate over Hinrich and Gordon because Gordon is obviously better and I am right and have been right all along. Its about time Boylan and the Bolgabull nation have begun to see the light.
by Zac23 on Feb 29, 2008 10:32 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Gordon is fine.
by Coach Van Lier on Feb 29, 2008 11:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
shot selection
The game inside the paint is still too much of a mystery to me for the Bulls even tho i am confident it could be a force come playoff time. But until then they will rely on perimeter shooting.
by Zac23 on Feb 29, 2008 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well
by bullshooter on Feb 29, 2008 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True.
by RogersPark Kris on Feb 29, 2008 11:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This really is Stormin' Norman
by Coach Van Lier on Feb 29, 2008 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot
by piccolomair on Feb 29, 2008 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Granger suspended 1 game
http://www.nba.com/news/granger_suspend_080229.html?rss=true
by NBA Observer on Feb 29, 2008 3:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
(And yes, I realize refs don't catch everything, so no need to point that out!)
by wjb1492 on Feb 29, 2008 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
glad it was reviewed
by Jaina on Feb 29, 2008 3:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

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