Reports: Bulls trade Ben Wallace
No consistent confirmations yet, but multiple sources are at least agreeing on the principal fact that Ben Wallace and Joe Smith are going to the Cavs, with Larry Hughes and Drew Gooden to the Bulls.
Some discrepancies all-around include whether or not Seattle is part of a 3-team trade, and other Bulls players like Chris Duhon and/or Adrian Griffin (and other Cavs, Sonics...) being involved as well.
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How could anyone not like this?
Brilliant trade.
Because...
I'm still happy, but this wasn't the slam dunk, lopsided victory some are making it out to be.
by messwiththebull on Feb 21, 2008 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
Forget about playing time
#2, Gooden is an expiring deal next year (when we might actually contend), and then we have Hughes as another one the year after that. It's actually better to have two expiring deals, in multiple years, instead of one.
#3, those who "should" be getting this playing time haven't even proven that they've earned it yet. Gooden could very well be better than Tyrus Thomas. Wallace unquestionably was not.
Not trying to be a party pooper
#2. I like the fact that Gooden has an expiring deal. It's the Hughes acquisition that I was really hoping to avoid. But you can't give away crap without taking on crap, which I understand.
#3. If Gooden is better than Ty Thomas, we should find that out ASAP so we can deal Ty while he still has value. Finding out too late, or after everyone else finds out, is terrible.
No matter how we justify this, the only way the Bulls could rid themselves of Wallace is by taking on someone else's crap. I can assure you there are fans in Cleveland equally as relieved as getting rid of Hughes as we are to be rid of Wallace.
Not trying to send mixed signals here: trading Wallace had to be done and I'm glad it happened.
by messwiththebull on Feb 21, 2008 3:11 PM CST up reply actions
I agree, it's all about fit.
Hughes was horrible on a team where they asked him to come off of screens and shoot jumpers. Now we get to see how good he is on a team where jumpers off of screens are left to others (Hinrich, Gordon and Deng), whereas slashing to the hole is a need.
soooo happy
by Stacey Kings Emmy on Feb 21, 2008 2:54 PM CST reply actions
Wrong
He's going to become the same exact whipping boy on here as Wallace. They don't save that much money with him, but do get Gooden's expiring deal for next year. Shame to see PJ Brown's rights go to waste again.
I wish Duhon were involved too, now this just limits Thabo's minutes. But TT and Noah will get more burn.
by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:04 PM CST up reply actions
I agree
by messwiththebull on Feb 21, 2008 3:17 PM CST up reply actions
ESPNews
the official
by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 3:00 PM CST reply actions
Ooh better than previously reported
Holy smokes. We fleeced em.
Out
Wallace
Smith
Duhon
Griffin
'08 2nd round pick
In
Gooden
Hughes
S. Brown
Simmons
by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 3:03 PM CST up reply actions
but did
by Conor on Feb 21, 2008 3:08 PM CST up reply actions
I was pissed the bulls never picked brown
Pax couldn't last more than 3 months without MSU's influence somewhere in the Berto Center.
Honestly though, i think the bulls did slightly better in this trade. Gets rid of the cancer of wallace (shame we had to lose smith). Gooden has some post moves, and hughes, even at a shadow of himself, allows us mobility with gordon, and makes our backcourt look alot better. Finally if simmons or brown ever turn into something, there we go.
You won't like it
by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 4:22 PM CST up reply actions
they don't have to waive anybody
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 4:25 PM CST up reply actions
Well, they are both 1st round picks
the thing about du
true
by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
lol I know
i hope the 4 guards that get any minutes are hinrich/gordon/hughes/sef, esp if we're going to be seeing 3 guard lineups, with either hughes or sef at the 3. du can be used sparingly. the only problem is that he's really the only true backup point. but when hughes was playing point in cleveland, i remember hearing he actually played pretty well.
Duhon is fine as a backup point guard
Agree with you Big D
I like the trade for the Bulls. Hughes has been awful since he's been in Cleveland, but he like Wallace might like a change of scenery. He can be our "slasher" scorer, something he wasn't allowed to be because James is clearly better in that category.
WHen Cleveland signed Hughes a lot of critics wondered if it would work since on offense he essentially needs to drive and play a similar role that Lebron played and he never was much of a shooter.
With the Bulls he can drive to the bucket and get some points. He's also a nice defender.
Now we just have to hope he is still motivated and plays the rest of the year.....
I care less about Gooden--a guy who'll look great one night, and then look like the village idiot the next 5-6 games. Still the Bulls have talked about Gooden for a few years, his contract isn't that awful, and he can score a bit inside and get some boards (and he can score a lot and get a ton of boards when he's not in his "village idiot" mode).
I think the Bulls improve more than just addition by subtraction. Hughes will be better playing a more suited role than he plays now. ALthough it'll be interesting in terms of who we play in the guard spots with Hinrich/Duhon/Gordon/Sefalosha/Hughes we've got too many guards again.....
I wish now Pax would dump Boylan and get us a coach. Now if we really had an NBA coach we could use our strengths and do well. If that coach can crack the mystery that is Gooden, we really could luck out. He can look really good on some nights.....
Now we need a coach, especially with a nice crop of guards.
You mentioned the best thing about hughes...
And im pissed how the P.J. Brown situation has been handled from the start.
by T MaK on Feb 21, 2008 7:04 PM CST up reply actions
What will really be cool is
If we're going to truly blow this thing up, let's actually blow it up.
It's not like getting Gasol for nothing...
I'm looking forward to seeing the details, but I'm cautiously optimistic here.
Cavs demand that he scores
I slate him for 22-25 minutes per. And judge that progress or regression and adjust as necessary.
by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 3:06 PM CST up reply actions
You're wrong too
This is just a "you take my crap, I'll take your crap" kinda trade. Nice to see Wallace go, but don't think it's seriously going to improve the team this year.
by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:06 PM CST up reply actions
One thing is absolutely certain.
Why?
by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:12 PM CST up reply actions
His better shots
He was a bad player to compliment Lebron. They wanted Michael Redd first, but he resigned for big dollars with the Bucks.
by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 3:15 PM CST up reply actions
So it's a good thing
by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:48 PM CST up reply actions
Of course not
by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 4:24 PM CST up reply actions
there's nothing
lots of things could contribute to Hughes having an impact...maybe not a huge impact, but he could still have one.
by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 3:15 PM CST up reply actions
The Wizards wanted to keep him
by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 3:17 PM CST up reply actions
and I bet you
by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:52 PM CST up reply actions
i'll agree
by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 3:23 PM CST up reply actions
How old is Chandler?
by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:49 PM CST up reply actions
you might
Just wait to see what happens first before you start bombing away...
by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
Are you debating the fact that Larry Hughes
I'd rather...
by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:42 PM CST up reply actions
I'd rather get shot and strangled
by Freethefro on Feb 21, 2008 4:44 PM CST up reply actions
agreed
Count me among the "cautiously hopeful" with regard to Hughes. He had a finger injury that may have lasted longer than some thought, and he was pretty effective for a while in Washington.
I'm not saying he's worth the money he's getting paid, he isn't. But neither was Wallace. And he is a good fit for the 3-guard lineup, if the Bulls insist on using it.
by Bayern Munich on Feb 21, 2008 3:34 PM CST up reply actions
for a while=1 year
by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
We get it, dude. You hate Larry Hughes
Time will tell if this is a good deal for the Bulls.
For now, I think it's an improvement, though (as I said) I don't believe Hughes justifies his salary from an objective stand-point.
by Bayern Munich on Feb 21, 2008 3:46 PM CST up reply actions
Adios Ben Gordon.
Watch the irony unfold as they start to win games and make the playoffs.
not necessarily
What happened was that Pax just bought himself some "insurance" in Hughes if BG doesn't budge on his asking price.
I doubt Gordon is asking for $15 million (bullshit Sam Smith!) but I don't see why they couldn't keep him.
With Duhon expiring and in all likelihood leaving after this season, you now have 4 guards who can all play the 1 or the 2...they would have an uber guard rotation that would be pretty nice.
by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 3:13 PM CST up reply actions
I agree
(of course, what they should do is have Hughes is the 6th man....)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 3:23 PM CST up reply actions
Man
Let me ask again, how does Hughes fit into the
He has to take someone's minutes, and it likely to be either Gordon's or Thabo's.
history says he will be
It'll be Hinrich/Hughes starting, then Gordon off the bench. 3-guard lineups will have Hughes and Thabo.
I guess it 'buries' Thabo a bit. That bothers some others more than me.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 3:13 PM CST up reply actions
Bothers me too
by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:15 PM CST up reply actions
Here's how:
While he's not the defensive stalwart, Hughes can play well in the open court/slash/finish. And the man can score.
Of course, Thabo's game is coming along in all of the same categories, this is true. But to pick up a tall guard of Hughes' abilities in slashing/finishing, and especially of his scoring ability, is still a great thing for this Bulls team.
The worst thing about him is that he shoots a low percentage from the floor, in fact statistically very close to Hinrich.
But as mentioned before, he makes Deng expendable, as he, Thabo and Noc (and maybe TT?) should all be able to spend time at the 3. Deng should fetch a high value in the open market.
one Ben gone
Bottom line, we traded our problem for Cleveland's. Salary-wise, it works out OK--we're now on the hook for more money for Hughes, but for the same duration (contract up after 09-10). Gooden's contract is done after next year, so he'll get an audition to see if he can mesh on the frontline with Noah and Tyrus. Hughes becomes the starting SG and can defend the bigger guards, which should help Hinrich.
Sadly, the initial ESPN report had Duhon in the deal, which turned out not to be true.
Gooden
Would have liked to be rid of Duhon, but at worst he's off the books at the end of the year.
The writing seems to be on the wall with Gordon though :|
Call the press
by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 3:16 PM CST up reply actions
I'm sure this guy is happy
Maybe he can sell the domain name to a Bulls fan. Alternately, he can start a Ben Wallace site now.
yeah
at least with Hughes, "bad shots" didn't include free throws.
by Bayern Munich on Feb 21, 2008 3:37 PM CST up reply actions
Bye bye pt for Thabo.
But I love clearing up the log jam up front. I've been a big Gooden fan and he finally gives us someone who can score around the basket (not take jumpers mr. smith). Noah moves to starting Center with Tyrus the first big off the bench. Sweet
by bullsfaninla on Feb 21, 2008 3:17 PM CST reply actions
Gordon's
The Bulls made the trade to rid themselves of Wallace and his lack of energy.
We had been hearing whispers of their Kansas love of Gooden for at least 2 years, so I'm sure that's why they let Joe "career year" Smith go, and they likely needed to as well to rid themselves of Wallace.
Larry Hughes could be very interesting though....perhaps he plays some time at the 3 spot?, he's got quick hands, and a slasher's mentality, so he might be able to play taller than he is.
Having him backup Deng in spots, and Gordon/Thabo in spots and even Hinrich in spots might not be bad.
Duhon's really the odd man out.
ESPN also reporting that the Bulls have to
thabo v hughes
Sue, cover your eyes
(they could trade Thabo)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 3:26 PM CST up reply actions
Starting Five
i gotta think
1 - Kirk
2 - Hughes
3 - Lu
4 - Gooden
5 - Noah
by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 3:25 PM CST up reply actions
Looks good to me!
My five
Gooden
Deng
Hinrich
Thabo
Hughes is the player to enter the game after Gordon in the guard rotation.
by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 3:27 PM CST up reply actions
I concur
It will be fun to see Noah and Thomas start together in the front court.
by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 3:31 PM CST up reply actions
Kidd
by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
My starting 5
Gordon
Deng
Gooden
Noah
with Hughes, Nocioni, Thabo, Tyrus Thomas, Aaron Gray leading our bench.
Gordon's essentially a starter anyway, and this whole him coming off the bench crap is stupid. He's a real scorer. If we put Hughes in his place, where are the points? Hinrich has had the ability to put up 30's in the past, just like Hughes, and yet I wouldn't want Hinrich as our main offensive threat.
I just heard - I'm thrilled
Pax did a great job considering I never thought he could find a buyer for the Corpse. I am thrilled.
Gooden has one more year
by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 3:28 PM CST up reply actions
They're saying Duhon's involved
Watched it on ESPN
Sorry fellas
Fortunately, Wallace is a better fit for us. Unfortunately for you, Hughes can't shoot.
I think this means you're not planning on offering Gordon any big bucks this off-season.
I'm pretty happy with Danny Ferry right now.
Go Cavs!
It looks like a wash trade
I don't think Ben Wallace is done in this league. He was just an awful fit for Chicago the way we are struggling. He was awful for the same reasons Hughes was awful in Cleveland. Both clubs asked the players to do what they're not very good at, Ben Wallace was worse though.
Hughes isn't a catch and shoot player. He's a dribble, drive, pull up jump shooter which Chicago needs.
by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 3:30 PM CST up reply actions
I think it'll actually work out fine for Cleveland
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 3:44 PM CST up reply actions
How is Wallace not
I really don't wager on sports, but I'm going to check the odds and maybe put some money on the Cavs.
by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 4:27 PM CST up reply actions
maybe I worded it poorly
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 4:31 PM CST up reply actions
Wallace has had trouble
On the other hand, playing next to a taller player in Ilgauskus will allow Wallace to block more shots from the weak side, theoretically. But again, this is an ability that relies on quickness, athleticism, energy; things he has not really shown in Chicago much over the past year.
That's why this trade really doesn't make sense for CLE as far as Wallace is concerned. They already had 2 guys in Varejao and Gooden who could do what Wallace does, and they were younger.
Joe Smith, on the other hand, is a great deal for the Cavs, because they get a 6'10 power forward who can knock down mid-range jumpers all day, something they didn't have in Varejao or Gooden (or Marshall).
haha
by Conor on Feb 21, 2008 3:31 PM CST up reply actions
Oh my god
Hughes sucks, yeah. Fortunately the Bulls still have Gordon. The Cavaliers now have to deal with this guy. Wow, have fun
Your blog is just fantastic, by the way
within 3 weeks
You'll be asking Danny Ferry himself to lace 'em up and start over Wallace.
by Bayern Munich on Feb 21, 2008 3:44 PM CST up reply actions
Wallace is a good fit for a team that can score
by RogersPark Kris on Feb 21, 2008 3:45 PM CST up reply actions
Can't LHughes
I'd like to see Kirk, Thabo, Luol, Gooden, Noah as starters...
and Hughes, Gordon, Nocioni, Thomas, and Gray as 2nd unit...
I think that shores up our bench A LOT. Unless Hughes can't play point...then would Gordon play point and Thabo play the 2?
!?!?!?!
by DALIBOR TARLAC on Feb 21, 2008 3:28 PM CST reply actions
Does this make the Bulls better this season?
Will this give them a worse record and a better pick? Or a better record and a worse pick?
by eGirl on Feb 21, 2008 3:28 PM CST reply actions
My guess is we don't make the playoffs
I think it does
I think that in terms of 'direction', it's still playoffs or bust.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 3:39 PM CST up reply actions
It should make them a better team.
now
by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 3:32 PM CST reply actions
At least this makes the rest of the season
doesn't matter
- Will Hughes benefit from a change of scenery?
- Is Gooden worth a long-term investment?
- Can Noah be a starting C?
- As I've said before, how much is Gordon worth and how much does he think he's worth?
This is awesome, please let it be true
Ben Wallace- sucked. Not much else to it. Made a lot of money, didn't give 100%, took a lot of PT from our youth. Terrible numbers, terrible player. Retired the day he signed that contract. Just a general nightmare. Good riddance.
Joe Smith- had a nice season going. Stayed healthy, played consistently, scored, rebounded. Just a case of wrong place, wrong time for him. We didn't play well enough as a whole to justify playing an old big with young, talented ones behind him. I have no ill will for him. Good luck Joe.
Adrian Griffin- are you serious? How old is he really? He moves like my dad, but looks older. If he were Cuban, we would be speculating that he was over 50. One of the most annoying players I have ever watched. His game belongs to the short shorts era and I think slow motion replays of him would look like still life paintings. Good night grandpa.
I find it funny
I'm looking forward to hearing some bad locker room stories about Wallace now.
There is no need to sweet talk the guy anymore.
I can't wait to hear the players verbally bury the Corpse.
by Ed on Feb 21, 2008 3:49 PM CST reply actions
That was my first reaction as well...
by SlickRick76 on Feb 21, 2008 3:54 PM CST up reply actions
come on chief
by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 3:55 PM CST up reply actions
I also find it funny
by RogersPark Kris on Feb 21, 2008 3:56 PM CST up reply actions
Good Point
I actually could have done without Gooden as he'll eat minutes at the 4, but, getting rid of Wallace is the ultimate goal.
I think Noah's got to be
by eGirl on Feb 21, 2008 4:02 PM CST up reply actions
Future
Hughes has two seasons left
Hughes will look as good as Wallyworld looks this season. Hughes comes off the books after the 09-10 season.
by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 4:29 PM CST up reply actions
How so?
Wallace: $14M in '09-'10.
Gooden's is up in '08-'09, so yea, (like Joe Smith) he'll potentially have value as an expiring deal.
And I'd bet they'll "suck here in Chicago".
Before I forget
uh, sure
Maybe the Cavs only watch their own games, and since they haven't faced the Bulls yet they have no idea what Wallace has left :)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 3:59 PM CST up reply actions
the scary thing
Think I'll actually go watch ATH now,
I really
Hughes is a solid slasher (something we've often hoped Deng could become and perhaps Deng can learn more from Hughes).
Sure Larry's contract sucks, but he is already better than Wallace and is paid less.
Joe Smith for all his solid play, did often make boneheaded plays when we needed a lift (like his turnover late yesterday or his sky hooks that he occassionally made but mostly struggled with 6-7 yrs ago).
Hughes can add a lift in scoring when the Gordon experience ain't working.
Gooden at least can get Wallace like rebounds but double his offensive production.
Noah gets more PT.....
I like it for the Bulls.
The Cavs...eh? I guess Wally's better these days than modern Donyell Marshall. I agree though that Wallace's style probably isn't going to help with Lebron. Now the Cavs are going to learn what it's like to play 4 on 5 ball and James will be even more covered than he was before.
Joe Smith's the only nice piece they got, but I think given a different style Hughes is better than Smith.
hughes slashing...
Wallace was not useful. He may be good for them (but really, is he better than Varejao? I don't think so) but he was useless to us because Noah and Tyrus were simply better.
If Hughes can start playing like he did when he played for Washington, this could be a steal.
by danger mouse on Feb 21, 2008 4:07 PM CST up reply actions
There is significant upside to this trade
cavs starters
by El Toro de Goro on Feb 21, 2008 5:26 PM CST up reply actions
This trade is so awesome.
But we've traded Wallace away! He's gone! GONE! YESSS!!!!!! Gooden's an upgrade, and he comes off the books next year.
I think the Cavs just got fleeced. But they did get Joe Smith, who'll help them. Just ... yeah, Wallace isn't going to be so great there.
Wonder what the heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com site is saying?
I think Wallace will play extremely well
If that happens...
by SlickRick76 on Feb 21, 2008 4:07 PM CST up reply actions
rotation
Hinrich/Sefo/Du
Hughes/Gordon/Sefo
Thats how they will role. I think BG and Hughes in the game at the same time will be the most effective tho. Both guys can score and together will be able to put maximum pressure on defenses. Not to mention take pressure off of Gordon giving him just a second or two more to get off his jumper and he can get hotter than most players in the NBA. Possibly with Hughes playing point, but guarding the 2. Hughes has game and BG will no longer be the only offensive threat.
Gooden plays hard, gets good boards and seems to clean up well around the basket with authority. Hopefully he does so coming off of the bench and Ty starts.
by Zac23 on Feb 21, 2008 4:04 PM CST reply actions
Matt, here's a thought
I'd love to read that.
we'll see
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 4:07 PM CST up reply actions
The league office just vetoed the trade!
If they didn't veto the Memphis/LA trade travesty
by RogersPark Kris on Feb 21, 2008 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
I just crapped my pants.
I really wonder what motivated the Bulls to make
Since this isn't the sort of trade that will make the Bulls an immediate title contender, I keep returniong to the question of the long-term strategy reflected in this transaction.
operation dumbo drop
- Get Rid of Wallace
- ????
- Profit!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 4:12 PM CST up reply actions
There might also be a big dose
by eGirl on Feb 21, 2008 4:15 PM CST up reply actions
It's not really
It was an obvious trade. And Pax still hasn't traded any of "his guys"
just looked it up
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 4:07 PM CST reply actions
Pax is a genius
On a more serious note, really glad we got Brown and Gooden.
Anything from Hughes will be just gravy.
That's some expensive gravy!
lol, trading for graphite, getting diamonds
by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 4:32 PM CST up reply actions
interesting note
Wallace Quote from KC Johnson blog priceless
LAST year. i.e. yeah, i played like crap this season. Too bad Bulls fans. Oh well, hello Cleveland.
by danger mouse on Feb 21, 2008 4:30 PM CST reply actions
well at least he didn't lie
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 4:32 PM CST up reply actions
3 gone
Smith, Wallace, Griffin
arriving
Gooden, Hughes, Simmons, Brown
We have to cut somebody. Nichols is the cheapest. Brown is the worst of the bunch.
by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 4:36 PM CST up reply actions
Why not cut
have we forgotten our fallen hero?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 4:44 PM CST up reply actions
After we lose
Hughes is great as a hedge for BG7
I like the trade overall, and think Shannon Brown will be a nice reserve for us.
that is one of the best selling points
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 4:39 PM CST up reply actions
We can see how everyone fits. Hughes needs
You would have to think
Sorry, I know that joke has been used a million times by now but I'm actually serious
I like this trade
Gooden is a slight upgrade over Joe Smith. Plus he's played with Kirk, so hopefully that will mean something. He's got one more year left on his deal and comes relatively
Hughes was terrible in Cleveland but was getting continually better in each of his seasons in Washington. I'm hoping the change of scenery will help him, but even if it doesn't, he's not a whole lot worse of a shooter than Duhon or Thabo, he's pretty decent at getting steals and he's relatively tall compared to the rest of the Bulls' guards. I would assume he'd be easier to move in the last year of his contract than Wallace's crusty old ass.
As for Simmons and Brown, I don't expect they'll see a lot of time, but I seem to recall the Bulls working out Simmons for the draft last summer. I wouldn't be surprised if they waived Brown.
The real questions is, what on Earth are we going to do without Griff???
by Mike Aparicio on Feb 21, 2008 4:38 PM CST reply actions
nothing like a big trade
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 4:43 PM CST up reply actions
I bought an Xbox 360
by Mike Aparicio on Feb 21, 2008 4:48 PM CST up reply actions
Guitar Hero!
by eGirl on Feb 21, 2008 4:51 PM CST up reply actions
Another Plus to the trade
My thoughts...
- I'm surprised anyone would actually still consider trading FOR Ben Wallace but from last trading deadline until now nobody would've guessed the crap that's been traded around.
- The Bulls just purged themselves of everyone on their roster over the age of 30. Hughes comes in at 29 but should be out by 31 so this team will once again be relying on one of Pax's guys to be the leader. I don't care if he's not a public voice but someone has to take charge of the locker room and I'm not sure Hinrich, Deng, or Gordon have it in them. Maybe Noah does.
- At the very least it reunites Hinrich with Gooden. Maybe we'll see less of the Mopey Iowan. Then again, the deal also involved Seattle and I'm surprised Collison didn't come this way just to cater to him some more.
Excellent point
Who would have thought
yeah ... crazy
I think Simmons had them BOTH high-up on his "Untradeable Contracts" list. Next thing you know, Isiah will get a taker for Jerome James.
by Bayern Munich on Feb 21, 2008 5:21 PM CST up reply actions
Gooden
by Mike Aparicio on Feb 21, 2008 4:50 PM CST reply actions
That beard
by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Feb 21, 2008 4:52 PM CST up reply actions
it's a beard bet
Which makes both the beard it's host welcome additions as far as I'm concerned :)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 4:57 PM CST up reply actions
One Problem
by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Feb 21, 2008 4:51 PM CST reply actions
I'll put this out there now
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 4:53 PM CST up reply actions
Is Lauricia alright?
(referring to that nightclub escapade
by Freethefro on Feb 21, 2008 5:07 PM CST up reply actions
Please spare me the details.
by eGirl on Feb 21, 2008 5:12 PM CST up reply actions
someone
by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Feb 21, 2008 5:13 PM CST up reply actions
I agree with your prediction
Otherwise, I'm happy about this trade.
by Freethefro on Feb 21, 2008 5:04 PM CST up reply actions
Well, hold on,
Look, Ben Wallace had it coming. He was paid $60 million to defend and rebound and be a leader, things that seemed to fall well within his expertise. Instead, he failed to do the first two and actively sabotaged the team with his attitude.
When things are going great, silliness and hijinks are tolerable--afro wigs, the clock tower chime, and that horrible moniker "the Body". But when things go south that dramatically, it's only natural for the fans to turn on the guy.
WOW -
When's Gray going to start?
by PittFan on Feb 21, 2008 4:57 PM CST reply actions
In Johnny Red's naptime dreams
Noah's gotta be the starting center.
But always remember Boylan factor!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 4:58 PM CST up reply actions
Kerr's gotta love
We have a lot of guards
But I wanna see him prove he deserves PT. I haven't given up on Gordon and after the good things Thabo has shown, I feel slightly conflicted about more guards coming in. We have so many guards; hopefully we'll see which ones should stay and get paid.
by ForWhomTheBullTolls on Feb 21, 2008 4:59 PM CST reply actions
i think that is what pax wants
by Conor on Feb 21, 2008 5:16 PM CST up reply actions
ZOM-GUH! Tanking Confirmed!
Power Forwards: Joakim Noah, Tyrus Thomas, Drew Gooden, Andres Nocioni
Small Forwards: Luol Deng, Demetris Nichols
Shooting Gaurds: Ben Gordon, Larry Worthless, Chris Duhon
Point Gaurds: Kirk Hinrich, Chris Duhon
So Larry is the 'excuse' to trade Gordon in the offseason. Gooden is the lesser version of Smith....he was keeping us in to many games, dont want to risk the 8th pick in the draft.
I hate John Paxson's brain.
This is what I want to know!
I think the primary idea behind this trade is an acknowledgement that they are not an elite team...so you might as well make the move toward development while there's still time left in the season to find out what you have.
If that means another trip to the lottery, then so be it.
by eGirl on Feb 21, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions
What?
PF: Gooden, Thomas, Noc
SF: Deng, Noc
SG: Thabo, Gordon, Hughes
PG: Hinrich, Hughes, Thabo
That is my personal depth chart bet.
by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Feb 21, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions
Sports Center
by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Feb 21, 2008 5:13 PM CST reply actions
Wallace is better than most of you seem to think.
I don't think any of the players the Bulls are getting are as good as Wallace. Certainly Larry Hughes isn't. Maybe Gooden could be if he returned to form, but that's a hope and a prayer.
On the other hand, this frees up time for Noah, who might be better than Wallace. So maybe it is addition by subtraction.
I gotta be honest
Understand
We might add that in the future- at the moment we're trying to get as much accurate info up as possible :)
Assuming
by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Feb 21, 2008 5:43 PM CST up reply actions
Yep, until we hit the luxury tax
Bulls have about:
$47.31M in guaranteed contracts
- $711k Non-guaranteed contract to Gray we probably pick up. I'm not betting we do the same for Curry.
- $1.8M or thereabouts for our 1st round pick (currently tracking at #10)
The luxury tax (if it increases at about the same levels in the past ~ 4%) is estimated to be about $70.58M
Thus, we've got about $20.75M to work with to resign Deng and/or Gordon before we exceed the luxury tax threshold.
Gordon's QO is $6.404M
So if he signs that, we can pay Deng up to $14.35M before we exceed the cap. That looks pretty feasible to me.
At the moment, I think the only teams likely to be that much under the cap are Philly and Memphis.
Memphis will have max money to dish out if they choose, though it's unclear if Deng or Gordon really fit with the rest of their team.
Philly has two significant FAs of their own to deal with; Andre Iguodala and Louis Williams. It's very conceivable that they might have $10-12M left over after signing those guys, but so they're a bit of a danger to go after one of ours.
---------------
Other considerations:
- Resigning Duhon, Shannon brown or Cedric Simmons? Could probably squeeze em in if they don't ask for much.
- Looking ahead to re-signing Gooden. Especially if Gordon isn't resigned, it'd be nice to lock up Gooden. However, the Bulls could be looking at $20M or so to spend in 2010 along with a solid core of players locked up. I'd probably pick between signing one of those two guys to resign, and only do it then if I could move Nocioni for a shorter contract. I think that's feasible, but it's no sure thing either.
If I knew how to link
by Freethefro on Feb 21, 2008 5:42 PM CST reply actions
This is at least a good trade simply
The worst scenario is that Gooden plays 35 min/g, Boylan plays Noc a bunch of minutes at the 4 now that Deng is back, and Duhon somehow still plays 20+ min/g as Boylan tries every single 3 guard lineup he can. I feel like I actually have to prepare myself for that possibility.
Your ultimate pragraph is my fear.
Sam Smith just said
by eGirl on Feb 21, 2008 5:44 PM CST reply actions
lol
PS! I was crossing everything I had during the game that it would be BW's last as a Bull. IT FRICKEN WORKED!! :D ... I have to find other uses for my newfound gift...
by Bass on Feb 21, 2008 6:18 PM CST up reply actions
Thank you
I will test to see if I have any crossing-power left by hoping Boylan gets his head out and starts coaching properly...
by Bass on Feb 21, 2008 6:53 PM CST up reply actions
It would be much appreciated
He said
I had a phone call and didn't get to hear all of it but I'm sure CSN will have his pc on their site under their multimedia section later. Here's the link.
Paxson summary of 6:45 interview
Notes from Pax's press conference:
He talks about how this opens up more time in the frontcourt for the young guys. He admits that it creates some issues in the backcourt, but he says he'll deal with that in the offseason.
Gordon will stay in the 6th man role. Pax talked to BG today, and he claims that this doesn't mean that Gordon is on his way out (I don't believe him).
If he'll sign at Paxson's price
I think this is a pretty good deal.
anyone think ben might be more motivated in cleveland? anyways good job pax.
by peace21 on Feb 21, 2008 7:01 PM CST reply actions
Paxson says
Be excited and relieved Bulls fans. He sees the same thing we do, and recognized what needed to be done, and did it. I agreed with a lot of what he said, and if Boylan can somehow be on the same page, then all the changes we've been griping for will finally be tested.
Everyone
Unless Hughes rediscovers his
thanks
by Freethefro on Feb 21, 2008 7:27 PM CST reply actions
Rather strange
Oh well.
Thanks for the memories, Joe.
The trades were needed and all that's left to be seen is how it will all play out.
Gerald Green just got
by DarthSidius on Feb 21, 2008 7:39 PM CST reply actions
That's
by chris44 on Feb 21, 2008 7:44 PM CST reply actions
My thoughts
- Good trade. Hughes is at least as good as Wallace. It'll also be a lot easier to trade him in the last year of his contract.
- I just hope this doesn't mean that Aaron Gray gets more minutes as a backup center. If he doesn't that means Gooden will have to play it. Does anyone know if that's something he can do effectively?
- Thank goodness we'll never see Thomas at the 3 again.
- This doesn't really make Gordon expendable. Duhon will be gone after this year, as will Shannon Brown. When Hughes gets hurt, we'd be down to Hinrich and Sefolosha with no good backup. Also, i'm scared to think about our top 3 guards being as inconsistent as Hinrich, Sef, and Hughes. I don't see a problem with committing a lot of money to our guards. Seeing as how Noah and Thomas are locked up to long rookie contracts, it's not like the money needs to be committed to our bigs. By the time that happens, Hughes will be off the books.
by rexisourqb on Feb 21, 2008 7:52 PM CST reply actions
The new pace of Bulls games
With Smith and Wallace gone, that leaves us with one of the smallest, fastest teams in the NBA. Maybe we won't be Suns/Warriors fast, but I think we'll see a lot more 100 point games from here on out.
In a related story, Michael Sweetney just bought season tickets.
You figure they'd be able to
Big:
1-Hughes/Thabo
2-Thabo/Deng
3-Thomas(maybe? Probably still just Deng)
4-Gooden/Noah
C-Gray/Noah
Small:
1-Kirk/Du
2-BG/Kirk
3-Deng/Noc/Hughes/Thabo
4-Thomas
5-Noah/Gooden
Ahhh the Boylan factor.
If only Gooden and Hughes did have to earn their minutes/starting spot.
If I had my choice, Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, Thomas and Noah would all be guaranteed 30+ mpg. Fuck the mistakes. See what happens. After that, Thabo, Hughes, Nocioni, Gooden would fight it out for the rest of the time. Aaron Gray would play the "special" 15 mpg -- 15 0 0 0 0 0 15 0 0 0 0 15.
Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!!!!!!!!!!
we just got really young
by Freethefro on Feb 21, 2008 8:18 PM CST reply actions
apparently
I gotta think they'll play on Sunday though.
by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 9:45 PM CST up reply actions
So what you're saying is
pinch me
you forgot
consider yourself informed, but not pinched :)
by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 10:45 PM CST up reply actions
It's amazing
I'm so glad he's not a Bull. God, he was just the worst with this team.
Nice Trade
This is the reason Duhon plays so much, and receives Duhon hate. With good point guards, the backup rarely get minutes. With Kirk at the helm, the Bulls need Duhon in a bad way.
Let him (Kirk) go for a real point guard in the 2008 draft. If Paxson could get rid of Wallace then Kirk and his large contract is also trade-a-able. The Bulls need a distributor who can also score, not a shoot first PG, average distributor who doesn't make the players around him better.
This isn't a popular position here, but Paxson should be aggressive and this move will save his job, if he can also land a real leader at the point in the draft.
This is Paxson's opportunity to redeem himself from the summmer of 2006, this trade today is a step in the right right. Now finish it before the summer is over.
there's a lot of quality in this draft
by Freethefro on Feb 21, 2008 9:48 PM CST up reply actions
Why can't be the PG Thabo?
But dont both
Kudos to Joe Smith
by RogersPark Kris on Feb 21, 2008 9:57 PM CST reply actions
Shannon Brown might not be filler
My only worry is that Gooden takes the Tyrus minutes at PF. The point - as Pax noted - is to develop our young talent. I just hope Boylan heard that loud and clear.
by Freethefro on Feb 21, 2008 10:01 PM CST reply actions
Paxson was also
I wouldn't expect much from Brown on the Bulls especially since we have a ton of higher quality guards.....but you never know.
if by
by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 10:37 PM CST up reply actions
No I don't mean purely as traid bait
He made some more comments about Viktor after his success in the summer league last year and said that he was having trouble fitting in with Deng and Noc's playing time, but again reiterated he was still high on Viktor.
If Viktor was trade bait, I think we would have auditioned him more.
I think that is why Pax let Viktor go, and while it made his job easier because we don't have to cut anyone, Viktor was hardly as bad as his playing time would suggest.....
learn to read
by ScottieCartwright on Feb 22, 2008 8:05 AM CST up reply actions
I am excited to see how the offense
Hopefully this will help BG
the players may miss Ben?
Throughout his comments Pax stood right in front of the Bull logo, with the horns seemingly coming out of his head. Cracks me up--he looks like a little devil.
So long Ben--hope Cleveland rejuvenates you. Bother Sheed in the playoffs--Detroit fans are starting to hate Cleveland as much as Chicago, so anything that might make them madder is good in my book.
I'm nervous for Thabo, but this is great for Noah.
I thought this was an interesting quote from Chris Broussard's take on the deal:
i read that as well
At the same time, I don't doubt that he was a good locker room guy...Ben has always been likeable to me...he just can't play for crap. You have to seperate personal feelings from, uhh, trying to win games feelings
by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 10:41 PM CST up reply actions
Ding dong the 'Fro is dead!
The Big Ben 'Fro!
Ding dong the bullshit overrated team cancer 'fro is dead!!!
Seriously, as cancers go, Hughes has GOT to be better than Wallace.

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