Reports: Bulls trade Ben Wallace

How could anyone not like this?

No net impact on contracts/luxury tax, Gooden is better than Wallace, he's an expiring deal next year, and we still have a big expiring deal in 2010 in Hughes. Hughes is also a hedge in losing Gordon. Who cares if it limits playing time for anyone else on the roster, Wallace had to go.

Brilliant trade.

by nateroth on Feb 21, 2008 2:54 PM CST 0 recs

Because...

even though we got rid of Wallace, which is unquestionably great, we had to take on two (note: one more than we gave up) wastes of playing time. Sure, we got rid of Joe Smith in the process as well, netting out to 1 less big, but Joe wasn't part of the problem.

I'm still happy, but this wasn't the slam dunk, lopsided victory some are making it out to be.

by messwiththebull on Feb 21, 2008 2:58 PM CST up 0 recs

Forget about playing time

#1, neither Gooden or Hughes has a "claim" to it like Wallace did as being the key acquisition. They will fall in line.

#2, Gooden is an expiring deal next year (when we might actually contend), and then we have Hughes as another one the year after that. It's actually better to have two expiring deals, in multiple years, instead of one.

#3, those who "should" be getting this playing time haven't even proven that they've earned it yet. Gooden could very well be better than Tyrus Thomas. Wallace unquestionably was not.

by nateroth on Feb 21, 2008 3:06 PM CST up 0 recs

Not trying to be a party pooper

#1. I hope you're right but I'll believe it when I see it.

#2. I like the fact that Gooden has an expiring deal. It's the Hughes acquisition that I was really hoping to avoid. But you can't give away crap without taking on crap, which I understand.

#3. If Gooden is better than Ty Thomas, we should find that out ASAP so we can deal Ty while he still has value. Finding out too late, or after everyone else finds out, is terrible.

No matter how we justify this, the only way the Bulls could rid themselves of Wallace is by taking on someone else's crap. I can assure you there are fans in Cleveland equally as relieved as getting rid of Hughes as we are to be rid of Wallace.

Not trying to send mixed signals here: trading Wallace had to be done and I'm glad it happened.

by messwiththebull on Feb 21, 2008 3:11 PM CST up 0 recs

I agree, it's all about fit.

It turns out that Wallace is horrible on a team where there is no taller post player. Now we get to see how he is on a team with a taller post player.

Hughes was horrible on a team where they asked him to come off of screens and shoot jumpers. Now we get to see how good he is on a team where jumpers off of screens are left to others (Hinrich, Gordon and Deng), whereas slashing to the hole is a need.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Feb 21, 2008 5:08 PM CST up 0 recs

soooo happy

tears are everywhere

Ok now go ahead and roll

by Stacey Kings Emmy on Feb 21, 2008 2:54 PM CST 0 recs

Fuck the leadership!

The Bulls can do better without them!

by Option27 on Feb 21, 2008 2:56 PM CST 0 recs

Thank God.

2008 - The Year of The Comeback... NOT!

by Goostafer on Feb 21, 2008 2:57 PM CST 0 recs

Also

Has anyone notices Hughes' month?!

DUDE CAN SCORE!

Even had a 40 point game earlier

by Option27 on Feb 21, 2008 2:59 PM CST 0 recs

Wrong

Dude sucks. Just in different ways than Wallace. He's only scoring 12.3 a game for this season while shooting 37.7%. This month he's scoring 19 a game while shooting 43%.

He's going to become the same exact whipping boy on here as Wallace. They don't save that much money with him, but do get Gooden's expiring deal for next year. Shame to see PJ Brown's rights go to waste again.

I wish Duhon were involved too, now this just limits Thabo's minutes. But TT and Noah will get more burn.

by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:04 PM CST up 0 recs

I agree

it's one thing to be happy Wallace is gone, but please, Bulls fans, don't get delusional and think the addition of Hughes and Gooden is in any way a benefit aside from having more cap flexibility over the next two years and maybe turning these guys into trade assets. That's the only good thing about these two guys, nothing more.

by messwiththebull on Feb 21, 2008 3:17 PM CST up 0 recs

ESPNews

about to talk to one of the Cleveland beat writers about the deal - said it might be 11 players?

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Feb 21, 2008 2:59 PM CST 0 recs

the official

ESPN story here - http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3257159

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 3:00 PM CST 0 recs

Ooh better than previously reported

Griff's out too?

Holy smokes. We fleeced em.

Out
Wallace
Smith
Duhon
Griffin
'08 2nd round pick

In
Gooden
Hughes
S. Brown
Simmons

by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 3:03 PM CST up 0 recs

doh, Duhon stays

:(

by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 3:04 PM CST up 0 recs

but did

we land shannon brown? i have always liked him, and he is from maywood, so you never know, returning home could inspire him

by Conor on Feb 21, 2008 3:08 PM CST up 0 recs

Huh

I never knew anyone could be inspired by their proximity to Maywood.

Yikes.

by lilzaky on Feb 21, 2008 3:25 PM CST up 0 recs

I was pissed the bulls never picked brown

but i finally have my boy on the team

Pax couldn't last more than 3 months without MSU's influence somewhere in the Berto Center.

Honestly though, i think the bulls did slightly better in this trade. Gets rid of the cancer of wallace (shame we had to lose smith). Gooden has some post moves, and hughes, even at a shadow of himself, allows us mobility with gordon, and makes our backcourt look alot better. Finally if simmons or brown ever turn into something, there we go.

by milesgmsu on Feb 21, 2008 3:48 PM CST up 0 recs

You won't like it

when Chicago waives Shannon Brown.

by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 4:22 PM CST up 0 recs

they don't have to waive anybody

although I'd immediately send Brown and Simmons to the D-League. The staff will be taxed (especially this group) with integrating Hughes and Gooden, might as well keep those two out of sight and mind. Use whatever scout/development apparatus they have set up in the d-league to monitor them from afar.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 4:25 PM CST up 0 recs

Well, they are both 1st round picks

Brown and Simmons could turn out to be sleepers in the trade, but hey I agree D-league them both

"We are who you thought we were"

by Thirdrock on Feb 21, 2008 4:34 PM CST up 0 recs

Party tonight

We managed to bury the corpse in another city!!1 Ooo rah!

by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 3:00 PM CST 0 recs

Duhon aint leaving!

FUCK!!!

by Option27 on Feb 21, 2008 3:02 PM CST 0 recs

the thing about du

is he is an expiring contract. I'm just hoping they don't re-sign him. I can put up with him for the rest of the season.

by Jaina on Feb 21, 2008 3:03 PM CST up 0 recs

true

but this leaves a log-jam at guard the rest of the season...who sits? who plays? who cares...Wallace is gone!

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 3:05 PM CST up 0 recs

lol I know

i'm like in shock. i seriously can't believe it, i was ready for a let down all over again.

i hope the 4 guards that get any minutes are hinrich/gordon/hughes/sef, esp if we're going to be seeing 3 guard lineups, with either hughes or sef at the 3. du can be used sparingly. the only problem is that he's really the only true backup point. but when hughes was playing point in cleveland, i remember hearing he actually played pretty well.

by Jaina on Feb 21, 2008 3:07 PM CST up 0 recs

Duhon is fine as a backup point guard

The problem is that they play him 25-30 minutes a game, instead of 10-15. If they can limit his minutes (and Hughes makes them deeper in the backcourt), I'm fine with keeping him around.

by Big D on Feb 21, 2008 3:05 PM CST up 0 recs

Agree with you Big D

Duhon might not be bad the rest of the season if he plays 15-20 minutes max a night. IT's when he gets into longer stretches that he starts makign more mistakes and causes us to hate him.

I like the trade for the Bulls. Hughes has been awful since he's been in Cleveland, but he like Wallace might like a change of scenery. He can be our "slasher" scorer, something he wasn't allowed to be because James is clearly better in that category.

WHen Cleveland signed Hughes a lot of critics wondered if it would work since on offense he essentially needs to drive and play a similar role that Lebron played and he never was much of a shooter.

With the Bulls he can drive to the bucket and get some points. He's also a nice defender.

Now we just have to hope he is still motivated and plays the rest of the year.....

I care less about Gooden--a guy who'll look great one night, and then look like the village idiot the next 5-6 games. Still the Bulls have talked about Gooden for a few years, his contract isn't that awful, and he can score a bit inside and get some boards (and he can score a lot and get a ton of boards when he's not in his "village idiot" mode).

I think the Bulls improve more than just addition by subtraction. Hughes will be better playing a more suited role than he plays now. ALthough it'll be interesting in terms of who we play in the guard spots with Hinrich/Duhon/Gordon/Sefalosha/Hughes we've got too many guards again.....

I wish now Pax would dump Boylan and get us a coach. Now if we really had an NBA coach we could use our strengths and do well. If that coach can crack the mystery that is Gooden, we really could luck out. He can look really good on some nights.....

Now we need a coach, especially with a nice crop of guards.

by majoyenrac on Feb 21, 2008 3:39 PM CST up 0 recs

You mentioned the best thing about hughes...

He is a big defender. Now, insead of A-drain, the defensive specialist, we have hughes who is 6'5 and is clearly better than A-drain offensivly. Would have been nice to save more money though....

And im pissed how the P.J. Brown situation has been handled from the start.

by T MaK on Feb 21, 2008 7:04 PM CST up 0 recs

What will really be cool is

if the Bulls can now turn either Deng or Gordon (or both) into cap space and draft picks. Complete the rebuilding process! Do it while developing the young bigs! And trade/sign&trade Deng and/or BG before their value sinks any lower.

If we're going to truly blow this thing up, let's actually blow it up.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Feb 21, 2008 3:02 PM CST 0 recs

It's not like getting Gasol for nothing...

But this is a good trade. I think a lot of us are underestimating Larry Hughes - when he got the huge contract from the Cavs, it's because he was a very highly sought-after free agent, he just didn't fit AT ALL on the Cavs. He also "solves" one of our issues, which is defense on bigger off-guards. Not to get too hyped up, but it certainly seems like he'll bring a lot more to the table over the next couple of years than The Corpse.

I'm looking forward to seeing the details, but I'm cautiously optimistic here.

by Jivas on Feb 21, 2008 3:03 PM CST 0 recs

Cavs demand that he scores

If you know his game, you can demand it, but you have to know when he can deliver it. Those 40 point games are no fluke. He's not going to give you offensive output like that every night, but 1 of 3 nights is good so long as he can bring the defense every night.

I slate him for 22-25 minutes per. And judge that progress or regression and adjust as necessary.

by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 3:06 PM CST up 0 recs

You're wrong too

He sucks. He's a career 41% shooter. At the time, everyone said the Cavs severely overpaid (and he was their fall back option, after Redd decided to stay in Milwaukee).

This is just a "you take my crap, I'll take your crap" kinda trade. Nice to see Wallace go, but don't think it's seriously going to improve the team this year.

by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:06 PM CST up 0 recs

One thing is absolutely certain.

On a team that is desperately in need of scoring points, Hughes brings far more offensive potential than Wallace.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 21, 2008 3:08 PM CST up 0 recs

Why?

Cause he's going to take more shots? How much potential does he have left? He's 29, and this is his 10th season. He just spent the last 3 years with arguably the best player in the game. How many open shots do you think he got in the Cleve? There's no reason to think he's going to become a better shooter now.

by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:12 PM CST up 0 recs

His better shots

come off the dribble. He's not a guy that can come off screens or just catch passes in the open to make jumpshots. He's not a three point shooter either.

He was a bad player to compliment Lebron. They wanted Michael Redd first, but he resigned for big dollars with the Bucks.

by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 3:15 PM CST up 0 recs

So it's a good thing

that he can't hit an open jump shot?

by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:48 PM CST up 0 recs

Of course not

But that is the kind of shot the Cavs wanted him to make. Hughes needs the ball to be effective. That's hard when Lebron dominates the ball and produces so well when he does.

by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 4:24 PM CST up 0 recs

there's nothing

that says he will be the same either...different players, different system, different plays, different coaching

lots of things could contribute to Hughes having an impact...maybe not a huge impact, but he could still have one.

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 3:15 PM CST up 0 recs

The Wizards wanted to keep him

They were ready to give him 4 years at on average 10 mil per.

by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 3:17 PM CST up 0 recs

and I bet you

that they're glad they didn't.

by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:52 PM CST up 0 recs

Players stay the same...

...more often than they change.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 21, 2008 3:18 PM CST up 0 recs

i'll agree

but you still see certain situations where a player may get traded and they seem to play better...or have you forgotten about Chandler that quick?

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 3:23 PM CST up 0 recs

How old is Chandler?

How old is Hughes? It's highly unlikely that the guy in his 10th season is all of a sudden going to turn into a good player. Especially going to a team like this, without any clear direction and a bunch of young guys. If he had no problem chucking before, who's gonna tell him to stop doing it now?

by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:49 PM CST up 0 recs

you might

want to re-read what I said. Nowhere in my posts have I said that Hughes was going to just magically turn into this good player...I said he might have a positive impact. Calm down, I know you don't like Hughes.

Just wait to see what happens first before you start bombing away...

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 3:53 PM CST up 0 recs

Are you debating the fact that Larry Hughes

is a better offensive weapon than Ben Wallace?

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 21, 2008 3:21 PM CST up 0 recs

I'd rather...

Get shot than strangled. Either way, I'm still dead.

by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:42 PM CST up 0 recs

I'd rather get shot and strangled

than listen to another pithy comment like that.

by Freethefro on Feb 21, 2008 4:44 PM CST up 0 recs

agreed

Count me among the "cautiously hopeful" with regard to Hughes. He had a finger injury that may have lasted longer than some thought, and he was pretty effective for a while in Washington.

I'm not saying he's worth the money he's getting paid, he isn't. But neither was Wallace. And he is a good fit for the 3-guard lineup, if the Bulls insist on using it.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 21, 2008 3:34 PM CST up 0 recs

for a while=1 year

How long has that finger been hurt?

by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:43 PM CST up 0 recs

We get it, dude. You hate Larry Hughes

Time will tell if this is a good deal for the Bulls.

For now, I think it's an improvement, though (as I said) I don't believe Hughes justifies his salary from an objective stand-point.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 21, 2008 3:46 PM CST up 0 recs

Adios Ben Gordon.

Not that I agree with it, but this pretty much signals he's gone. They'd rather pay Hughes to be the incredibly flawed SG than Gordon, I guess.

Watch the irony unfold as they start to win games and make the playoffs.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 21, 2008 3:04 PM CST 0 recs

not necessarily

I think a lot still depends on the contract talks and what happens there.

What happened was that Pax just bought himself some "insurance" in Hughes if BG doesn't budge on his asking price.

I doubt Gordon is asking for $15 million (bullshit Sam Smith!) but I don't see why they couldn't keep him.

With Duhon expiring and in all likelihood leaving after this season, you now have 4 guards who can all play the 1 or the 2...they would have an uber guard rotation that would be pretty nice.

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 3:13 PM CST up 0 recs

I agree

assuming they won't be able to dump Hughes anytime soon, having a bunch of decent guards shouldn't be a bad thing that needs rectifying.

(of course, what they should do is have Hughes is the 6th man....)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 3:23 PM CST up 0 recs

Man

Hinrich, Duhon, Gordon, Hughes, Brown, Thabo.....thats quite alot of guards

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Feb 21, 2008 3:05 PM CST 0 recs

Let me ask again, how does Hughes fit into the

backcourt rotation?

He has to take someone's minutes, and it likely to be either Gordon's or Thabo's.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 21, 2008 3:06 PM CST 0 recs

Let's just hope he's hurt soon

by Jobu on Feb 21, 2008 3:07 PM CST up 0 recs

history says he will be

but until then, it's a small concern, although the idea that Boylan's in charge of that decision makes it slightly more nerveracking.

It'll be Hinrich/Hughes starting, then Gordon off the bench. 3-guard lineups will have Hughes and Thabo.

I guess it 'buries' Thabo a bit. That bothers some others more than me.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 3:13 PM CST up 0 recs

Bothers me too

I'd like Thabo to play more, we know what Hughes can and can't do. I like that Noah and TT get more minutes. (so will Aaron Gray...ugh)

by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:15 PM CST up 0 recs

Here's how:

The last thing the Bulls needed was a jump-shooter, while their biggest need in the backcourt was a tall guard who could play defense on other tall guards, and is a slasher/finisher. More offense wouldn't hurt either.

While he's not the defensive stalwart, Hughes can play well in the open court/slash/finish. And the man can score.

Of course, Thabo's game is coming along in all of the same categories, this is true. But to pick up a tall guard of Hughes' abilities in slashing/finishing, and especially of his scoring ability, is still a great thing for this Bulls team.

The worst thing about him is that he shoots a low percentage from the floor, in fact statistically very close to Hinrich.

But as mentioned before, he makes Deng expendable, as he, Thabo and Noc (and maybe TT?) should all be able to spend time at the 3. Deng should fetch a high value in the open market.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Feb 21, 2008 4:07 PM CST up 0 recs

one Ben gone

And the other will be next--it's hard to see how the Bulls keep Gordon after this deal. Probable sign-and-trade around draft time, I'd guess.

Bottom line, we traded our problem for Cleveland's. Salary-wise, it works out OK--we're now on the hook for more money for Hughes, but for the same duration (contract up after 09-10). Gooden's contract is done after next year, so he'll get an audition to see if he can mesh on the frontline with Noah and Tyrus. Hughes becomes the starting SG and can defend the bigger guards, which should help Hinrich.

Sadly, the initial ESPN report had Duhon in the deal, which turned out not to be true.

vanillablue.wordpress.com

by vanillablue on Feb 21, 2008 3:07 PM CST 0 recs

Gooden

Is a younger, stronger version of Joe Smith on a reasonable contract. I think that bodes very well for us.

Would have liked to be rid of Duhon, but at worst he's off the books at the end of the year.

The writing seems to be on the wall with Gordon though :|

by Sports2 on Feb 21, 2008 3:12 PM CST 0 recs

Call the press

We got a Jayhawk connection in town.

by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 3:16 PM CST up 0 recs

I'm sure this guy is happy

http://heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com/

Maybe he can sell the domain name to a Bulls fan. Alternately, he can start a Ben Wallace site now.

by Big D on Feb 21, 2008 3:17 PM CST 0 recs

yeah

at least with Hughes, "bad shots" didn't include free throws.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 21, 2008 3:37 PM CST up 0 recs

Bye bye pt for Thabo.

Unless they want to pull a tim thomas and pretend Larry Hughes doesn't exist, I would imagine he's the starting 2. BG still comes off the bench, and I imagine duhon will take Hinrich's bench time.

But I love clearing up the log jam up front. I've been a big Gooden fan and he finally gives us someone who can score around the basket (not take jumpers mr. smith). Noah moves to starting Center with Tyrus the first big off the bench. Sweet

by bullsfaninla on Feb 21, 2008 3:17 PM CST 0 recs

Gordon's

Still our best SG.....so I wonder. Thabo has a lot of skills. Hughes might still be the odd man out.

The Bulls made the trade to rid themselves of Wallace and his lack of energy.

We had been hearing whispers of their Kansas love of Gooden for at least 2 years, so I'm sure that's why they let Joe "career year" Smith go, and they likely needed to as well to rid themselves of Wallace.

Larry Hughes could be very interesting though....perhaps he plays some time at the 3 spot?, he's got quick hands, and a slasher's mentality, so he might be able to play taller than he is.

Having him backup Deng in spots, and Gordon/Thabo in spots and even Hinrich in spots might not be bad.

Duhon's really the odd man out.

by majoyenrac on Feb 21, 2008 3:46 PM CST up 0 recs

ESPN also reporting that the Bulls have to

take Simmons and Brown?

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 21, 2008 3:20 PM CST 0 recs

thabo v hughes

how are they not the same player? Both cant shoot have a decent handle and play good defense and tons of other stuff. Anyways, thabo has more potential of course but at this point hughes is established. One could say we have 4-5 Sf instead of 4-5 guards. Sort fo starting to resemble the hawks in that way.

by Sambossanova on Feb 21, 2008 3:22 PM CST 0 recs