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Reports: Bulls trade Ben Wallace

Blogabull_s_tiny by your friendly BullsBlogger on in News

No consistent confirmations yet, but multiple sources are at least agreeing on the principal fact that Ben Wallace and Joe Smith are going to the Cavs, with Larry Hughes and Drew Gooden to the Bulls.

Some discrepancies all-around include whether or not Seattle is part of a 3-team trade, and other Bulls players like Chris Duhon and/or Adrian Griffin (and other Cavs, Sonics...) being involved as well.

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How could anyone not like this?
No net impact on contracts/luxury tax, Gooden is better than Wallace, he's an expiring deal next year, and we still have a big expiring deal in 2010 in Hughes.  Hughes is also a hedge in losing Gordon.  Who cares if it limits playing time for anyone else on the roster, Wallace had to go.

Brilliant trade.

by nateroth on Feb 21, 2008 2:54 PM CST reply actions  

Because...
even though we got rid of Wallace, which is unquestionably great, we had to take on two (note:  one more than we gave up) wastes of playing time.  Sure, we got rid of Joe Smith in the process as well, netting out to 1 less big, but Joe wasn't part of the problem.  

I'm still happy, but this wasn't the slam dunk, lopsided victory some are making it out to be.

by messwiththebull on Feb 21, 2008 2:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Forget about playing time
#1, neither Gooden or Hughes has a "claim" to it like Wallace did as being the key acquisition.  They will fall in line.

#2, Gooden is an expiring deal next year (when we might actually contend), and then we have Hughes as another one the year after that.  It's actually better to have two expiring deals, in multiple years, instead of one.

#3, those who "should" be getting this playing time haven't even proven that they've earned it yet.  Gooden could very well be better than Tyrus Thomas.  Wallace unquestionably was not.

by nateroth on Feb 21, 2008 3:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Not trying to be a party pooper
#1.  I hope you're right but I'll believe it when I see it.

#2.  I like the fact that Gooden has an expiring deal.  It's the Hughes acquisition that I was really hoping to avoid.  But you can't give away crap without taking on crap, which I understand.  

#3.  If Gooden is better than Ty Thomas, we should find that out ASAP so we can deal Ty while he still has value.  Finding out too late, or after everyone else finds out, is terrible.  

No matter how we justify this, the only way the Bulls could rid themselves of Wallace is by taking on someone else's crap.  I can assure you there are fans in Cleveland equally as relieved as getting rid of Hughes as we are to be rid of Wallace.

Not trying to send mixed signals here:  trading Wallace had to be done and I'm glad it happened.

by messwiththebull on Feb 21, 2008 3:11 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree, it's all about fit.
It turns out that Wallace is horrible on a team where there is no taller post player. Now we get to see how he is on a team with  a taller post player.

Hughes was horrible on a team where they asked him to come off of screens and shoot jumpers. Now we get to see how good he is on a team where jumpers off of screens are left to others (Hinrich, Gordon and Deng), whereas slashing to the hole is a need.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Feb 21, 2008 5:08 PM CST up reply actions  

soooo happy
tears are everywhere
Ok now go ahead and roll

by Stacey Kings Emmy on Feb 21, 2008 2:54 PM CST reply actions  

Fuck the leadership!
The Bulls can do better without them!

by Option27 on Feb 21, 2008 2:56 PM CST reply actions  

Thank God.
2008 - The Year of The Comeback... NOT!

by Goostafer on Feb 21, 2008 2:57 PM CST reply actions  

Also
Has anyone notices Hughes' month?!

DUDE CAN SCORE!

Even had a 40 point game earlier

by Option27 on Feb 21, 2008 2:59 PM CST reply actions  

Wrong
Dude sucks.  Just in different ways than Wallace.  He's only scoring 12.3 a game for this season while shooting 37.7%.  This month he's scoring 19 a game while shooting 43%.  

He's going to become the same exact whipping boy on here as Wallace.  They don't save that much money with him, but do get Gooden's expiring deal for next year.  Shame to see PJ Brown's rights go to waste again.  

I wish Duhon were involved too, now this just limits Thabo's minutes.  But TT and Noah will get more burn.  

by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:04 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree
it's one thing to be happy Wallace is gone, but please, Bulls fans, don't get delusional and think the addition of Hughes and Gooden is in any way a benefit aside from having more cap flexibility over the next two years and maybe turning these guys into trade assets.  That's the only good thing about these two guys, nothing more.

by messwiththebull on Feb 21, 2008 3:17 PM CST up reply actions  

ESPNews
about to talk to one of the Cleveland beat writers about the deal - said it might be 11 players?
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Feb 21, 2008 2:59 PM CST reply actions  

Ooh better than previously reported
Griff's out too?

Holy smokes.  We fleeced em.

Out
Wallace
Smith
Duhon
Griffin
'08 2nd round pick

In
Gooden
Hughes
S. Brown
Simmons

by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 3:03 PM CST up reply actions  

but did
we land shannon brown?  i have always liked him, and he is from maywood, so you never know, returning home could inspire him

by Conor on Feb 21, 2008 3:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Huh
I never knew anyone could be inspired by their proximity to Maywood.  

Yikes.

by lilzaky on Feb 21, 2008 3:25 PM CST up reply actions  

I was pissed the bulls never picked brown
but i finally have my boy on the team

Pax couldn't last more than 3 months without MSU's influence somewhere in the Berto Center.

Honestly though, i think the bulls did slightly better in this trade. Gets rid of the cancer of wallace (shame we had to lose smith). Gooden has some post moves, and hughes, even at a shadow of himself, allows us mobility with gordon, and makes our backcourt look alot better. Finally if simmons or brown ever turn into something, there we go.

by milesgmsu on Feb 21, 2008 3:48 PM CST up reply actions  

You won't like it
when Chicago waives Shannon Brown.

by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 4:22 PM CST up reply actions  

they don't have to waive anybody
although I'd immediately send Brown and Simmons to the D-League. The staff will be taxed (especially this group) with integrating Hughes and Gooden, might as well keep those two out of sight and mind. Use whatever scout/development apparatus they have set up in the d-league to monitor them from afar.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 4:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, they are both 1st round picks
Brown and Simmons could turn out to be sleepers in the trade, but hey I agree D-league them both
"We are who you thought we were"

by Thirdrock on Feb 21, 2008 4:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Party tonight
We managed to bury the corpse in another city!!1  Ooo rah!

by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 3:00 PM CST reply actions  

the thing about du
is he is an expiring contract.  I'm just hoping they don't re-sign him. I can put up with him for the rest of the season.

by Jaina on Feb 21, 2008 3:03 PM CST up reply actions  

true
but this leaves a log-jam at guard the rest of the season...who sits?  who plays?  who cares...Wallace is gone!

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 3:05 PM CST up reply actions  

lol I know
i'm like in shock.  i seriously can't believe it, i was ready for a let down all over again.

i hope the 4 guards that get any minutes are hinrich/gordon/hughes/sef, esp if we're going to be seeing 3 guard lineups, with either hughes or sef at the 3.  du can be used sparingly.  the only problem is that he's really the only true backup point.  but when hughes was playing point in cleveland, i remember hearing he actually played pretty well.

by Jaina on Feb 21, 2008 3:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Duhon is fine as a backup point guard
The problem is that they play him 25-30 minutes a game, instead of 10-15.  If they can limit his minutes (and Hughes makes them deeper in the backcourt), I'm fine with keeping him around.

by Big D on Feb 21, 2008 3:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Agree with you Big D
Duhon might not be bad the rest of the season if he plays 15-20 minutes max a night. IT's when he gets into longer stretches that he starts makign more mistakes and causes us to hate him.

I like the trade for the Bulls.  Hughes has been awful since he's been in Cleveland, but he like Wallace might like a change of scenery.  He can be our "slasher" scorer, something he wasn't allowed to be because James is clearly better in that category.

WHen Cleveland signed Hughes a lot of critics wondered if it would work since on offense he essentially needs to drive and play a similar role that Lebron played and he never was much of a shooter.

With the Bulls he can drive to the bucket and get some points.  He's also a nice defender.

Now we just have to hope he is still motivated and plays the rest of the year.....

I care less about Gooden--a guy who'll look great one night, and then look like the village idiot the next 5-6 games.  Still the Bulls have talked about Gooden for a few years, his contract isn't that awful, and he can score a bit inside and get some boards (and he can score a lot and get a ton of boards when he's not in his "village idiot" mode).

I think the Bulls improve more than just addition by subtraction.  Hughes will be better playing a more suited role than he plays now.  ALthough it'll be interesting in terms of who we play in the guard spots with Hinrich/Duhon/Gordon/Sefalosha/Hughes we've got too many guards again.....

I wish now Pax would dump Boylan and get us a coach.  Now if we really had an NBA coach we could use our strengths and do well.  If that coach can crack the mystery that is Gooden, we really could luck out.  He can look really good on some nights.....

Now we need a coach, especially with a nice crop of guards.

by majoyenrac on Feb 21, 2008 3:39 PM CST up reply actions  

You mentioned the best thing about hughes...
He is a big defender. Now, insead of A-drain, the defensive specialist, we have hughes who is 6'5 and is clearly better than A-drain offensivly. Would have been nice to save more money though....

And im pissed how the P.J. Brown situation has been handled from the start.

by T MaK on Feb 21, 2008 7:04 PM CST up reply actions  

What will really be cool is
if the Bulls can now turn either Deng or Gordon (or both) into cap space and draft picks. Complete the rebuilding process! Do it while developing the young bigs! And trade/sign&trade Deng and/or BG before their value sinks any lower.

If we're going to truly blow this thing up, let's actually blow it up.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Feb 21, 2008 3:02 PM CST reply actions  

It's not like getting Gasol for nothing...
But this is a good trade.  I think a lot of us are underestimating Larry Hughes - when he got the huge contract from the Cavs, it's because he was a very highly sought-after free agent, he just didn't fit AT ALL on the Cavs.  He also "solves" one of our issues, which is defense on bigger off-guards.  Not to get too hyped up, but it certainly seems like he'll bring a lot more to the table over the next couple of years than The Corpse.

I'm looking forward to seeing the details, but I'm cautiously optimistic here.

by Jivas on Feb 21, 2008 3:03 PM CST reply actions  

Cavs demand that he scores
If you know his game, you can demand it, but you have to know when he can deliver it.  Those 40 point games are no fluke.  He's not going to give you offensive output like that every night, but 1 of 3 nights is good so long as he can bring the defense every night.

I slate him for 22-25 minutes per.  And judge that progress or regression and adjust as necessary.

by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 3:06 PM CST up reply actions  

You're wrong too
He sucks.  He's a career 41% shooter.  At the time, everyone said the Cavs severely overpaid (and he was their fall back option, after Redd decided to stay in Milwaukee).  

This is just a "you take my crap, I'll take your crap" kinda trade.  Nice to see Wallace go, but don't think it's seriously going to improve the team this year.  

by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:06 PM CST up reply actions  

One thing is absolutely certain.
On a team that is desperately in need of scoring points, Hughes brings far more offensive potential than Wallace.
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 21, 2008 3:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Why?
Cause he's going to take more shots?  How much potential does he have left?  He's 29, and this is his 10th season.  He just spent the last 3 years with arguably the best player in the game.  How many open shots do you think he got in the Cleve?  There's no reason to think he's going to become a better shooter now.

by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:12 PM CST up reply actions  

His better shots
come off the dribble.  He's not a guy that can come off screens or just catch passes in the open to make jumpshots.  He's not a three point shooter either.

He was a bad player to compliment Lebron.  They wanted Michael Redd first, but he resigned for big dollars with the Bucks.

by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 3:15 PM CST up reply actions  

So it's a good thing
that he can't hit an open jump shot?  

by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Of course not
But that is the kind of shot the Cavs wanted him to make.  Hughes needs the ball to be effective.  That's hard when Lebron dominates the ball and produces so well when he does.

by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 4:24 PM CST up reply actions  

there's nothing
that says he will be the same either...different players, different system, different plays, different coaching

lots of things could contribute to Hughes having an impact...maybe not a huge impact, but he could still have one.

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 3:15 PM CST up reply actions  

The Wizards wanted to keep him
They were ready to give him 4 years at on average 10 mil per.

by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 3:17 PM CST up reply actions  

and I bet you
that they're glad they didn't.  

by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Players stay the same...
...more often than they change.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 21, 2008 3:18 PM CST up reply actions  

i'll agree
but you still see certain situations where a player may get traded and they seem to play better...or have you forgotten about Chandler that quick?

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

How old is Chandler?
How old is Hughes?  It's highly unlikely that the guy in his 10th season is all of a sudden going to turn into a good player.  Especially going to a team like this, without any clear direction and a bunch of young guys.  If he had no problem chucking before, who's gonna tell him to stop doing it now?

by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:49 PM CST up reply actions  

you might
want to re-read what I said.  Nowhere in my posts have I said that Hughes was going to just magically turn into this good player...I said he might have a positive impact.  Calm down, I know you don't like Hughes.

Just wait to see what happens first before you start bombing away...

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 3:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Are you debating the fact that Larry Hughes
is a better offensive weapon than Ben Wallace?
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 21, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd rather...
Get shot than strangled.  Either way, I'm still dead.  

by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd rather get shot and strangled
than listen to another pithy comment like that.  

by Freethefro on Feb 21, 2008 4:44 PM CST up reply actions  

agreed

Count me among the "cautiously hopeful" with regard to Hughes.  He had a finger injury that may have lasted longer than some thought, and he was pretty effective for a while in Washington.  

I'm not saying he's worth the money he's getting paid, he isn't.  But neither was Wallace.  And he is a good fit for the 3-guard lineup, if the Bulls insist on using it.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 21, 2008 3:34 PM CST up reply actions  

for a while=1 year
How long has that finger been hurt?  

by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:43 PM CST up reply actions  

We get it, dude. You hate Larry Hughes

Time will tell if this is a good deal for the Bulls.  

For now, I think it's an improvement, though (as I said) I don't believe Hughes justifies his salary from an objective stand-point.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 21, 2008 3:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Adios Ben Gordon.
Not that I agree with it, but this pretty much signals he's gone. They'd rather pay Hughes to be the incredibly flawed SG than Gordon, I guess.

Watch the irony unfold as they start to win games and make the playoffs.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 21, 2008 3:04 PM CST reply actions  

not necessarily
I think a lot still depends on the contract talks and what happens there.

What happened was that Pax just bought himself some "insurance" in Hughes if BG doesn't budge on his asking price.

I doubt Gordon is asking for $15 million (bullshit Sam Smith!) but I don't see why they couldn't keep him.

With Duhon expiring and in all likelihood leaving after this season, you now have 4 guards who can all play the 1 or the 2...they would have an uber guard rotation that would be pretty nice.

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 3:13 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree
assuming they won't be able to dump Hughes anytime soon, having a bunch of decent guards shouldn't be a bad thing that needs rectifying.

(of course, what they should do is have Hughes is the 6th man....)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Man
Hinrich, Duhon, Gordon, Hughes, Brown, Thabo.....thats quite alot of guards
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Feb 21, 2008 3:05 PM CST reply actions  

Let me ask again, how does Hughes fit into the
backcourt rotation?

He has to take someone's minutes, and it likely to be either Gordon's or Thabo's.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 21, 2008 3:06 PM CST reply actions  

history says he will be
but until then, it's a small concern, although the idea that Boylan's in charge of that decision makes it slightly more nerveracking.

It'll be Hinrich/Hughes starting, then Gordon off the bench. 3-guard lineups will have Hughes and Thabo.

I guess it 'buries' Thabo a bit. That bothers some others more than me.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 3:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Bothers me too
I'd like Thabo to play more, we know what Hughes can and can't do.  I like that Noah and TT get more minutes.  (so will Aaron Gray...ugh)

by Moses Taylor on Feb 21, 2008 3:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Here's how:
The last thing the Bulls needed was a jump-shooter, while their biggest need in the backcourt was a tall guard who could play defense on other tall guards, and is a slasher/finisher. More offense wouldn't hurt either.

While he's not the defensive stalwart, Hughes can play well in the open court/slash/finish. And the man can score.

Of course, Thabo's game is coming along in all of the same categories, this is true. But to pick up a tall guard of Hughes' abilities in slashing/finishing, and especially of his scoring ability, is still a great thing for this Bulls team.

The worst thing about him is that he shoots a low percentage from the floor, in fact statistically very close to Hinrich.

But as mentioned before, he makes Deng expendable, as he, Thabo and Noc (and maybe TT?) should all be able to spend time at the 3. Deng should fetch a high value in the open market.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Feb 21, 2008 4:07 PM CST up reply actions  

one Ben gone
And the other will be next--it's hard to see how the Bulls keep Gordon after this deal. Probable sign-and-trade around draft time, I'd guess.

Bottom line, we traded our problem for Cleveland's.  Salary-wise, it works out OK--we're now on the hook for more money for Hughes, but for the same duration (contract up after 09-10).  Gooden's contract is done after next year, so he'll get an audition to see if he can mesh on the frontline with Noah and Tyrus. Hughes becomes the starting SG and can defend the bigger guards, which should help Hinrich.

Sadly, the initial ESPN report had Duhon in the deal, which turned out not to be true.

vanillablue.wordpress.com

by vanillablue on Feb 21, 2008 3:07 PM CST reply actions  

Gooden
Is a younger, stronger version of Joe Smith on a reasonable contract.  I think that bodes very well for us.

Would have liked to be rid of Duhon, but at worst he's off the books at the end of the year.

The writing seems to be on the wall with Gordon though :|

by Sports2 on Feb 21, 2008 3:12 PM CST reply actions  

Call the press
We got a Jayhawk connection in town.

by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 3:16 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm sure this guy is happy
http://heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com/

Maybe he can sell the domain name to a Bulls fan.  Alternately, he can start a Ben Wallace site now.

by Big D on Feb 21, 2008 3:17 PM CST reply actions  

yeah

at least with Hughes, "bad shots" didn't include free throws.  

by Bayern Munich on Feb 21, 2008 3:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Bye bye pt for Thabo.
Unless they want to pull a tim thomas and pretend Larry Hughes doesn't exist, I would imagine he's the starting 2. BG still comes off the bench, and I imagine duhon will take Hinrich's bench time.

But I love clearing up the log jam up front. I've been a big Gooden fan and he finally gives us someone who can score around the basket (not take jumpers mr. smith). Noah moves to starting Center with Tyrus the first big off the bench. Sweet

by bullsfaninla on Feb 21, 2008 3:17 PM CST reply actions  

Gordon's
Still our best SG.....so I wonder.  Thabo has a lot of skills.  Hughes might still be the odd man out.

The Bulls made the trade to rid themselves of Wallace and his lack of energy.

We had been hearing whispers of their Kansas love of Gooden for at least 2 years, so I'm sure that's why they let Joe "career year" Smith go, and they likely needed to as well to rid themselves of Wallace.

Larry Hughes could be very interesting though....perhaps he plays some time at the 3 spot?, he's got quick hands, and a slasher's mentality, so he might be able to play taller than he is.

Having him backup Deng in spots, and Gordon/Thabo in spots and even Hinrich in spots might not be bad.

Duhon's really the odd man out.

by majoyenrac on Feb 21, 2008 3:46 PM CST up reply actions  

ESPN also reporting that the Bulls have to
take Simmons and Brown?
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 21, 2008 3:20 PM CST reply actions  

thabo v hughes
how are they not the same player?  Both cant shoot have a decent handle and play good defense and tons of other stuff. Anyways, thabo has more potential of course but at this point hughes is established.  One could say we have 4-5 Sf instead of 4-5 guards.  Sort fo starting to resemble the hawks in that way.

by Sambossanova on Feb 21, 2008 3:22 PM CST reply actions  

rotation
what are your guys ideas of how the starting 5 shapes out now that big ben is gone

by tdegard on Feb 21, 2008 3:22 PM CST reply actions  

Starting Five
Noah, Gooden, Deng, Kirk, Hughes
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 21, 2008 3:24 PM CST up reply actions  

i gotta think
it might resemble this:

1 - Kirk
2 - Hughes
3 - Lu
4 - Gooden
5 - Noah

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 3:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Looks good to me!
TT may get the nod at the 4 - we shall see.  Both ways it looks better than the Corpse in the starting 5.

by chgobr on Feb 21, 2008 3:29 PM CST up reply actions  

My five
Noah
Gooden
Deng
Hinrich
Thabo

Hughes is the player to enter the game after Gordon in the guard rotation.

by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 3:27 PM CST up reply actions  

TT gets the start tomorrow night tho
but after that probably gooden.
Goodbye Viktor, and Godspeed.

by bullshooter on Feb 21, 2008 3:29 PM CST up reply actions  

I concur
Newly arriving players almost never start for their team immediately.

It will be fun to see Noah and Thomas start together in the front court.

by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 3:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Kidd
just started for the Mavs last night...so anything is possible.

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 3:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Um... Nocioni disagrees.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 21, 2008 7:40 PM CST up reply actions  

My starting 5
Hinrich
Gordon
Deng
Gooden
Noah

with Hughes, Nocioni, Thabo, Tyrus Thomas, Aaron Gray leading our bench.

Gordon's essentially a starter anyway, and this whole him coming off the bench crap is stupid.  He's a real scorer.  If we put Hughes in his place, where are the points?  Hinrich has had the ability to put up 30's in the past, just like Hughes, and yet I wouldn't want Hinrich as our main offensive threat.

by majoyenrac on Feb 21, 2008 3:50 PM CST up reply actions  

I just heard - I'm thrilled
This opens options for us during the summer.  Hughes was used as a jump shooter in Cleveland and his strength is driving to the basket - which we need.  Gooden has one year left and will be very trade-able next year.  Trade BG, Gooden, Noc, Hughes, etc. pending how they perform the rest of the year.  Noah is now our center and gets increased minutes.  We can evaluate TT verses Gooden the remainder of the year.  I think TT is the better player but we will see.  NOT HAVING THE CORPSE IS A PLUS. Hughes contract and Gooden's one year deal are very manageable.

Pax did a great job considering I never thought he could find a buyer for the Corpse.  I am thrilled.  

by chgobr on Feb 21, 2008 3:26 PM CST reply actions  

Gooden has one more year
He's on contract through this season and next season.

by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 3:28 PM CST up reply actions  

They're saying Duhon's involved
He's going to Seattle.

Watched it on ESPN

"Jerome James PER.. is 46.68... Do that trade now! Screw Horford, we don't need him. Jerome is a monster!!!!!!!!!" - BNeL21

by NittanyBull on Feb 21, 2008 3:26 PM CST reply actions  

Sorry fellas
You poor suckers making a move for Larry Hughes.  He was our albatross like you with Wallace.  

Fortunately, Wallace is a better fit for us.  Unfortunately for you, Hughes can't shoot.

I think this means you're not planning on offering Gordon any big bucks this off-season.

I'm pretty happy with Danny Ferry right now.
Go Cavs!

by Matt in LA on Feb 21, 2008 3:28 PM CST reply actions  

It looks like a wash trade
If you compare the fan reaction.

I don't think Ben Wallace is done in this league.  He was just an awful fit for Chicago the way we are struggling.  He was awful for the same reasons Hughes was awful in Cleveland.  Both clubs asked the players to do what they're not very good at, Ben Wallace was worse though.

Hughes isn't a catch and shoot player.  He's a dribble, drive, pull up jump shooter which Chicago needs.

by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 3:30 PM CST up reply actions  

I think it'll actually work out fine for Cleveland
but it's important to remember that it's not about winning trades it's about making your team better.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 3:44 PM CST up reply actions  

How is Wallace not
going to help the Cavs?  Their obstacles in the EC are Boston, Detroit, and Orlando.  Wallace is awesome against Detroit.  He's decent against Orlando.  All he has to do is rebound against Boston.  Lebron will do everything else.

I really don't wager on sports, but I'm going to check the odds and maybe put some money on the Cavs.

by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 4:27 PM CST up reply actions  

maybe I worded it poorly
My point was the Bulls shouldn't be concerned with how it helps the Cavs, just how it helps the Bulls.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 4:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Wallace has had trouble
with tall front lines. In the past, he could use his superior strength, athletic ability and perseverence ("energy") to lock down pretty much anyone, regardless of their height/weight/offensive skill advantages on him. Not so much in the past year or so.

On the other hand, playing next to a taller player in Ilgauskus will allow Wallace to block more shots from the weak side, theoretically. But again, this is an ability that relies on quickness, athleticism, energy; things he has not really shown in Chicago much over the past year.

That's why this trade really doesn't make sense for CLE as far as Wallace is concerned. They already had 2 guys in Varejao and Gooden who could do what Wallace does, and they were younger.

Joe Smith, on the other hand, is a great deal for the Cavs, because they get a 6'10 power forward who can knock down mid-range jumpers all day, something they didn't have in Varejao or Gooden (or Marshall).

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Feb 21, 2008 4:35 PM CST up reply actions  

haha
enjoy wallace...he is an absolute joy to watch

by Conor on Feb 21, 2008 3:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh my god
Have fun watching Wallace completely stop the Cavs' offensive flow, and contribute little to nothing on the defensive side, at a rate of 15.5, 14.5, and 14 over the next three.

Hughes sucks, yeah. Fortunately the Bulls still have Gordon. The Cavaliers now have to deal with this guy. Wow, have fun

"Jerome James PER.. is 46.68... Do that trade now! Screw Horford, we don't need him. Jerome is a monster!!!!!!!!!" - BNeL21

by NittanyBull on Feb 21, 2008 3:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Your blog is just fantastic, by the way
"Jerome James PER.. is 46.68... Do that trade now! Screw Horford, we don't need him. Jerome is a monster!!!!!!!!!" - BNeL21

by NittanyBull on Feb 21, 2008 3:35 PM CST up reply actions  

within 3 weeks

You'll be asking Danny Ferry himself to lace 'em up and start over Wallace.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 21, 2008 3:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Wallace is a good fit for a team that can score
Ala Phoenix, Orlando, LA...The Cavs...I don't see how this is going to help them all that much.

by RogersPark Kris on Feb 21, 2008 3:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Heh
I always knew the French version of Matt would be evil.  Anyway, at least Hughes is only 29.  Wallace is cooked and he's only going to get more cooked.  Don't get me wrong, it's still a crap-for-crap.  I'd just rather have the 29-year-old crap.

by Petor on Feb 21, 2008 4:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Can't LHughes
play some minutes at point?

I'd like to see Kirk, Thabo, Luol, Gooden, Noah as starters...

and Hughes, Gordon, Nocioni, Thomas, and Gray as 2nd unit...

I think that shores up our bench A LOT.  Unless Hughes can't play point...then would Gordon play point and Thabo play the 2?

!?!?!?!

by DALIBOR TARLAC on Feb 21, 2008 3:28 PM CST reply actions  

Does this make the Bulls better this season?
Or are they acknowledging that they weren't as close as they thought, and they're getting ready to dive back into the draft pool?

Will this give them a worse record and a better pick?  Or a better record and a worse pick?

by eGirl on Feb 21, 2008 3:28 PM CST reply actions  

My guess is we don't make the playoffs
This is a big shakeup and facilitates a lottery pick.  I am fine with that.  I rather watch Noah struggle than the Corpse.

by chgobr on Feb 21, 2008 3:32 PM CST up reply actions  

I think it does
if anything, post-trade boost is a somewhat predictable phenomenon.

I think that in terms of 'direction', it's still playoffs or bust.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 3:39 PM CST up reply actions  

It should make them a better team.
Whether management is smart enough to realize that it should is another story.  But Boylan is still just as capable of making a mess of things as he was before the trade.  

by Scotter on Feb 21, 2008 3:44 PM CST up reply actions  

now
the "corpse" nickname can finally be retired around here...and not a minute too soon

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 3:32 PM CST reply actions  

At least this makes the rest of the season
more interesting.  I am curious to see how these new pieces fit.

by chgobr on Feb 21, 2008 3:37 PM CST reply actions  

doesn't matter
The rest of this season is mainly an audition.  The big questions are:
  • Will Hughes benefit from a change of scenery?
  • Is Gooden worth a long-term investment?
  • Can Noah be a starting C?
  • As I've said before, how much is Gordon worth and how much does he think he's worth?
In a perfect world, Hughes will start to play more to his strengths (defense, slashing) and less to his weaknesses (shooting); Gooden will hold down the PF spot until Tyrus is ready; and Noah will step up. Gordon will be dealt, no question.  So, it doesn't really matter if we finish 8th or 9th in the East.
vanillablue.wordpress.com

by vanillablue on Feb 21, 2008 3:37 PM CST reply actions  

This is awesome, please let it be true
After all the crap that we, as fans, have put up with this year, it is awesome to see so much change so quickly.  

Ben Wallace- sucked.  Not much else to it.  Made a lot of money, didn't give 100%, took a lot of PT from our youth.  Terrible numbers, terrible player.  Retired the day he signed that contract.  Just a general nightmare.  Good riddance.

Joe Smith- had a nice season going.  Stayed healthy, played consistently, scored, rebounded.  Just a case of wrong place, wrong time for him.  We didn't play well enough as a whole to justify playing an old big with young, talented ones behind him.  I have no ill will for him.  Good luck Joe.

Adrian Griffin- are you serious?  How old is he really?  He moves like my dad, but looks older.  If he were Cuban, we would be speculating that he was over 50.  One of the most annoying players I have ever watched.  His game belongs to the short shorts era and I think slow motion replays of him would look like still life paintings.  Good night grandpa.

Why don't you crack an egg of knowledge all over me, buddy.

by MarketMaker on Feb 21, 2008 3:39 PM CST reply actions  

the part about griffin
made me lol for some reason.  i hate watching that guy.

by Jaina on Feb 21, 2008 3:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I find it funny
That our 3 veteran team leaders are traded.

I'm looking forward to hearing some bad locker room stories about Wallace now.

There is no need to sweet talk the guy anymore.
I can't wait to hear the players verbally bury the Corpse.

by Ed on Feb 21, 2008 3:49 PM CST reply actions  

That was my first reaction as well...
I guess when you try to take team discipline into your own hands, you get shown the door...karma can be a bitch sometimes...
http://slickyricky76.blogspot.com/

by SlickRick76 on Feb 21, 2008 3:54 PM CST up reply actions  

come on chief
it doesn't work like that...they're not gonna turn into a bunch of class-less guys now.  Everybody will take the high road for this one...

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 3:55 PM CST up reply actions  

I also find it funny
that the veteran ownership unanimously voted that Adrain and Wallace were useless piles of crap that should be traded.

by RogersPark Kris on Feb 21, 2008 3:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Good Point
They didn't exactly "steady the ship" when things got rocky.  

I actually could have done without Gooden as he'll eat minutes at the 4, but, getting rid of Wallace is the ultimate goal.

by Jobu on Feb 21, 2008 3:57 PM CST up reply actions  

I think Noah's got to be
the happiest guy in all this.  In addition to a lot more playing time coming his way, don't you think he gets to feel a certain amount of vindication?

by eGirl on Feb 21, 2008 4:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Future
What this also means is even if Hughes and Gooden suck here in Chicago, their contracts will be very attractive at next year's deadline!

by Option27 on Feb 21, 2008 3:54 PM CST reply actions  

Hughes has two seasons left
after this one.

Hughes will look as good as Wallyworld looks this season.  Hughes comes off the books after the 09-10 season.

by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 4:29 PM CST up reply actions  

How so?
Hughes: $13.6M in '09-'10.
Wallace: $14M in '09-'10.

Gooden's is up in '08-'09, so yea, (like Joe Smith) he'll potentially have value as an expiring deal.

And I'd bet they'll "suck here in Chicago".

by marionette on Feb 21, 2008 5:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Before I forget
who was it that said they were showcasing Wallace?  I remember something somewhere.  Anybody? ...8-P
Goodbye Viktor, and Godspeed.

by bullshooter on Feb 21, 2008 3:55 PM CST reply actions  

uh, sure
maybe that final anemic overtime performance put the Cavs over the edge!

Maybe the Cavs only watch their own games, and since they haven't faced the Bulls yet they have no idea what Wallace has left :)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 3:59 PM CST up reply actions  

see what happens
when you stay positive.  
Goodbye Viktor, and Godspeed.

by bullshooter on Feb 21, 2008 5:04 PM CST up reply actions  

You are a good person Bullshooter
It has been a challenge rooting for this team this year.

by chgobr on Feb 21, 2008 5:34 PM CST up reply actions  

the scary thing
as I was watching the game last night, and as my level of frustration continued to rise, I found myself agreeing more and more with Bullish.
Goodbye Viktor, and Godspeed.

by bullshooter on Feb 21, 2008 5:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Would have looked a lot better...
...in 10 - 15 mpg.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 21, 2008 7:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Think I'll actually go watch ATH now,
see what Mariotti has to say about this.  He's been (as usual) so vocal about Pax doing nothing, I'm interested to hear how he spins this all doom and gloom.  
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Feb 21, 2008 3:56 PM CST reply actions  

I really
Think we made out on this trade the more I think of it.

Hughes is a solid slasher (something we've often hoped Deng could become and perhaps Deng can learn more from Hughes).

Sure Larry's contract sucks, but he is already better than Wallace and is paid less.

Joe Smith for all his solid play, did often make boneheaded plays when we needed a lift (like his turnover late yesterday or his sky hooks that he occassionally made but mostly struggled with 6-7 yrs ago).

Hughes can add a lift in scoring when the Gordon experience ain't working.  

Gooden at least can get Wallace like rebounds but double his offensive production.

Noah gets more PT.....

I like it for the Bulls.

The Cavs...eh?  I guess Wally's better these days than modern Donyell Marshall.  I agree though that Wallace's style probably isn't going to help with Lebron.  Now the Cavs are going to learn what it's like to play 4 on 5 ball and James will be even more covered than he was before.

Joe Smith's the only nice piece they got, but I think given a different style Hughes is better than Smith.

by majoyenrac on Feb 21, 2008 3:56 PM CST reply actions  

hughes slashing...
I think that is a good point that no one is making.  Hughes problem in Cleveland was that he did too many of the same things Lebron did, but only much worse.  In Chicago, Hughes is a unique player.  A 6'5 slasher who is a better ball handler than Gordon and a more natural scorer than Selfolosha.  Plus, he is not a bad defender.  He is useful.  So is Gooden.

Wallace was not useful.  He may be good for them (but really, is he better than Varejao?  I don't think so) but he was useless to us because Noah and Tyrus were simply better.  

If Hughes can start playing like he did when he played for Washington, this could be a steal.  

by danger mouse on Feb 21, 2008 4:07 PM CST up reply actions  

RE: Hughes slashing
We might have to wait until his contract year for that

by Jobu on Feb 21, 2008 4:14 PM CST up reply actions  

There is significant upside to this trade
and little downside.  I agree with above re Hughes is a slasher and not a spot-up shooter which was needed in the Cleveland offense.  Joe Smith was a great pick-up and probably was the leverage we had to get rid of the Corpse.  I don't think this is the end of Paxson moves.

by chgobr on Feb 21, 2008 4:35 PM CST up reply actions  

cavs starters
The cavs clearly should start Smith and bring Wallace off the bench.  Have they got the guts?

by El Toro de Goro on Feb 21, 2008 5:26 PM CST up reply actions  

So do any
of the new guys play tomorrow night or do you think they will wait until Sunday?

by sue369 on Feb 21, 2008 3:56 PM CST reply actions  

This trade is so awesome.
Hughes is total garbage, it's true. If you are frustrated by Gordon ...
But we've traded Wallace away! He's gone! GONE! YESSS!!!!!! Gooden's an upgrade, and he comes off the books next year.
I think the Cavs just got fleeced. But they did get Joe Smith, who'll help them. Just ... yeah, Wallace isn't going to be so great there.
Wonder what the heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com site is saying?

by Prevenge on Feb 21, 2008 4:00 PM CST reply actions  

I think Wallace will play extremely well
alongside Z. He has always thrived when paired with a taller player.
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 21, 2008 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

If that happens...
I think The Corpse will surpass James Posey for most hated by Bulls fans...if he isn't there already...
http://slickyricky76.blogspot.com/

by SlickRick76 on Feb 21, 2008 4:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Agree with your post
except word "extremely".
"YES,WE CAN!"-B.OBAMA.

by Azabullsfan on Feb 21, 2008 4:10 PM CST up reply actions  

rotation
Boylan:
Hinrich/Sefo/Du
Hughes/Gordon/Sefo

Thats how they will role. I think BG and Hughes in the game at the same time will be the most effective tho.  Both guys can score and together will be able to put maximum pressure on defenses.  Not to mention take pressure off of Gordon giving him just a second or two more to get off his jumper and he can get hotter than most players in the NBA.  Possibly with Hughes playing point, but guarding the 2.  Hughes has game and BG will no longer be the only offensive threat.  
Gooden plays hard, gets good boards and seems to clean up well around the basket with authority.  Hopefully he does so coming off of the bench and Ty starts.

by Zac23 on Feb 21, 2008 4:04 PM CST reply actions  

Matt, here's a thought
Any chance you can do a round-table with bloggers from the other two teams and dissect the trade, sort of a "this is what you're getting, here's the good, here's the bad" kind of discussion?

I'd love to read that.

by paxson43 on Feb 21, 2008 4:04 PM CST reply actions  

we'll see
I'm not against it, but I usually only have time to write for here. On the other hand I'm a sucker for requests.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 4:07 PM CST up reply actions  

The league office just vetoed the trade!
OK, not really.  I just wanted to see how people would react if that happens.

by Big D on Feb 21, 2008 4:05 PM CST reply actions  

you....
SUCK!  Don't freak a fat man out like that...

by Lt.Dan on Feb 21, 2008 4:11 PM CST up reply actions  

I really wonder what motivated the Bulls to make
this trade?

Since this isn't the sort of trade that will make the Bulls an immediate title contender, I keep returniong to the question of the long-term strategy reflected in this transaction.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 21, 2008 4:06 PM CST reply actions  

operation dumbo drop
  1. Get Rid of Wallace
  2. ????
  3. Profit!
Seriously, I think just getting rid of Wallace is worthwhile just to free up minutes for Noah and Tyrus. They're keys to the next contending team (or trade pieces for those keys).

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 4:12 PM CST up reply actions  

There might also be a big dose
of public relations thrown in, too.  I'm glad Paxson got the can't-pull-the-trigger monkey off his back.

by eGirl on Feb 21, 2008 4:15 PM CST up reply actions  

It's not really
That kind of trade though.

It was an obvious trade. And Pax still hasn't traded any of "his guys"

by Option27 on Feb 21, 2008 4:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Really?
How is not about playing time for Thomas and Noah? I suppose we'll know once they start playing again, but that's the only conclusion I can draw.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 21, 2008 7:51 PM CST up reply actions  

just looked it up
and Drew Gooden will fit right in: he's having a career-worst season :)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 4:07 PM CST reply actions  

Pax is a genius
He is sending Wallace to Cleveland knowing that Lebron will be so pissed off that he'll opt out of his contract and sign as a free agent for the Bulls in 2010.

On a more serious note, really glad we got Brown and  Gooden.

Anything from Hughes will be just gravy.

by Outsidergua on Feb 21, 2008 4:16 PM CST reply actions  

That's some expensive gravy!
"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Feb 21, 2008 4:21 PM CST up reply actions  

interesting note
bulls.com this morning had a pic of noah and ben; now its the same pic but with ben cropped out

by milesgmsu on Feb 21, 2008 4:27 PM CST reply actions  

Wallace Quote from KC Johnson blog priceless
"I had a good time here," Wallace said Thursday. "I enjoyed being one of the guys. And I had a good season last year."

LAST year.  i.e. yeah, i played like crap this season.  Too bad Bulls fans.  Oh well, hello Cleveland.

by danger mouse on Feb 21, 2008 4:30 PM CST reply actions  

Someone will be waived
Bulls are taking 4 players and giving 2.  So they've got to waive someone.

by Sports2 on Feb 21, 2008 4:33 PM CST reply actions  

3 gone
Departing
Smith, Wallace, Griffin

arriving
Gooden, Hughes, Simmons, Brown

We have to cut somebody.  Nichols is the cheapest.  Brown is the worst of the bunch.

by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 4:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Why not cut
JamesOn Curry instead?
"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Feb 21, 2008 4:41 PM CST up reply actions  

have we forgotten our fallen hero?
Bulls had an extra roster spot after Air Khrap One departed.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 4:44 PM CST up reply actions  

After we lose
the three today we only have 11 on the roster. If we bring in 4 players today that is 15 on the roster. I thought we were allowed 15 on the roster?

by sue369 on Feb 21, 2008 4:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Hughes is great as a hedge for BG7
And Drew Gooden is basically as productive as Wallace, though Joe Smith will be missed.

I like the trade overall, and think Shannon Brown will be a nice reserve for us.

Interest Level = Wins - Losses + 2*Tyrus Time + 1.5*(Thabo + Noah Time) - .4*Bricked layups + 3*Red Kerr Candies

by cubbybear on Feb 21, 2008 4:34 PM CST reply actions  

This is so awesome
It's like a new season.  I can watch games again and take notes with hope.

by NBA Observer on Feb 21, 2008 4:34 PM CST reply actions  

We can see how everyone fits. Hughes needs
to refocus to return to become a slasher.  It does make watching them more interesting.

by chgobr on Feb 21, 2008 4:46 PM CST up reply actions  

You would have to think
Gooden and Hughes would have to "earn" starting jobs, right?

Sorry, I know that joke has been used a million times by now but I'm actually serious

by Option27 on Feb 21, 2008 4:37 PM CST reply actions  

I like this trade
Dumping Wallace's contract and attitude was huge. At least with the new guys hopefully the Bulls won't feel obligated to placate them because of their salary and/or past accomplishments (what accomplishments!). Plus it frees up some PT for Noah and TT.

Gooden is a slight upgrade over Joe Smith. Plus he's played with Kirk, so hopefully that will mean something. He's got one more year left on his deal and comes relatively

Hughes was terrible in Cleveland but was getting continually better in each of his seasons in Washington. I'm hoping the change of scenery will help him, but even if it doesn't, he's not a whole lot worse of a shooter than Duhon or Thabo, he's pretty decent at getting steals and he's   relatively tall compared to the rest of the Bulls' guards. I would assume he'd be easier to move in the last year of his contract than Wallace's crusty old ass.

As for Simmons and Brown, I don't expect they'll see a lot of time, but I seem to recall the Bulls working out Simmons for the draft last summer. I wouldn't be surprised if they waived Brown.

The real questions is, what on Earth are we going to do without Griff???

by Mike Aparicio on Feb 21, 2008 4:38 PM CST reply actions  

nothing like a big trade
to bring the old-school BaB'ers out of the woodwork :)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 4:43 PM CST up reply actions  

I bought an Xbox 360
It's been far more entertaining than watching the Bulls play. But this trade has definitely piqued my interest.

by Mike Aparicio on Feb 21, 2008 4:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Guitar Hero!
I go through withdrawal every day.

by eGirl on Feb 21, 2008 4:51 PM CST up reply actions  

I feel like Stormin' Norm
Pining about the "good 'ol days" on the old Bulls Blog

by Jobu on Feb 21, 2008 4:55 PM CST up reply actions  

i
hear kevin is desperately trying to log back in...

by leeac on Feb 21, 2008 5:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Mike A
waits until he has something to say before he posts. :)

by KT on Feb 21, 2008 5:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Another Plus to the trade
Bloggers appear out of the ether.
Interest Level = Wins - Losses + 2*Tyrus Time + 1.5*(Thabo + Noah Time) - .4*Bricked layups + 3*Red Kerr Candies

by cubbybear on Feb 21, 2008 6:14 PM CST up reply actions  

My thoughts...
  1. I'm surprised anyone would actually still consider trading FOR Ben Wallace but from last trading deadline until now nobody would've guessed the crap that's been traded around.
  2. The Bulls just purged themselves of everyone on their roster over the age of 30. Hughes comes in at 29 but should be out by 31 so this team will once again be relying on one of Pax's guys to be the leader. I don't care if he's not a public voice but someone has to take charge of the locker room and I'm not sure Hinrich, Deng, or Gordon have it in them. Maybe Noah does.
  3. At the very least it reunites Hinrich with Gooden. Maybe we'll see less of the Mopey Iowan. Then again, the deal also involved Seattle and I'm surprised Collison didn't come this way just to cater to him some more.

by CubFan81 on Feb 21, 2008 4:46 PM CST reply actions  

Excellent point
I forgot the transitive property of Jayhawk when I was thinking through why I liked this trade!

by paxson43 on Feb 21, 2008 5:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Who would have thought
The two guys in the NBA that seemed stuck on their teams a month ago in Shaq and Wallace would both be traded?

by Option27 on Feb 21, 2008 4:49 PM CST reply actions  

yeah ... crazy

I think Simmons had them BOTH high-up on his "Untradeable Contracts" list.  Next thing you know, Isiah will get a taker for Jerome James.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 21, 2008 5:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Gooden
I hope he shaves that godawful beard. At least he ditched that little patch on the back of his head from last year.

by Mike Aparicio on Feb 21, 2008 4:50 PM CST reply actions  

That beard
is his best offensive skill.

by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Feb 21, 2008 4:52 PM CST up reply actions  

it's a beard bet
with DeShawn Stevenson.

Which makes both the beard it's host welcome additions as far as I'm concerned :)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 4:57 PM CST up reply actions  

One Problem
Larry Hughes is terrible, he is Ben Wallace bad.  He gets steals and is 6'5", aside from that he can't do anything.  I predict a lot of stupid nicknames and incessant whining about him in the oncoming months.

by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Feb 21, 2008 4:51 PM CST reply actions  

I'll put this out there now
anyone using the 'laura hughes' nickname is getting banned.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 4:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Is Lauricia alright?
"Jerome James PER.. is 46.68... Do that trade now! Screw Horford, we don't need him. Jerome is a monster!!!!!!!!!" - BNeL21

by NittanyBull on Feb 21, 2008 4:56 PM CST up reply actions  

someone
just used Larry Worthless.  How does anyone think that this is remotely clever.

by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Feb 21, 2008 5:13 PM CST up reply actions  

So nothing will
change in here then? Great..... :-(

by sue369 on Feb 21, 2008 4:55 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree with your prediction
but add this: he was a terrible fit in Clevland.  Here's why: Hughes is a slasher, and his offense is predictated on getting to the rack or pulling up.  LeBron is the best in the game at that role, and it's turned Larry Hughes into a spot up shooter, which he sucks at.  I'm not saying he'll be a terrific player for us.  But I do think he'll take the ball to the rack, which we've not done nearly enough.  His role in Chicago will be more suited to his strengths - just as Big Ben will be better served playing next to a 7'3, offensive minded center.  In this sense, it's a good trade for both teams, especially if Noah seizes the starting center spot as I hope he will.

Otherwise, I'm happy about this trade.  

by Freethefro on Feb 21, 2008 5:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, hold on,
let's give the man a chance. He was asked to do something totally unnatural in Cleveland as far as his role on that team went.

Look, Ben Wallace had it coming. He was paid $60 million to defend and rebound and be a leader, things that seemed to fall well within his expertise. Instead, he failed to do the first two and actively sabotaged the team with his attitude.

When things are going great, silliness and hijinks are tolerable--afro wigs, the clock tower chime, and that horrible moniker "the Body". But when things go south that dramatically, it's only natural for the fans to turn on the guy.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Feb 21, 2008 5:27 PM CST up reply actions  

WOW -
How'd you guys get those suckers do go along with that?  I thought there was no way anyone would EVER take Wallace off your hands.

When's Gray going to start?

by PittFan on Feb 21, 2008 4:57 PM CST reply actions  

In Johnny Red's naptime dreams
he starts every game.

Noah's gotta be the starting center.

But always remember Boylan factor!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2008 4:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Kerr's gotta love
The players that remind him of himself.  Slow, big-boned full-college center.  That and I hear he loves candy between stints.
Interest Level = Wins - Losses + 2*Tyrus Time + 1.5*(Thabo + Noah Time) - .4*Bricked layups + 3*Red Kerr Candies

by cubbybear on Feb 21, 2008 6:16 PM CST up reply actions  

We have a lot of guards
Not a bad trade, although I find it hard to get amped for Larry Hughes and his $12 million over three years.

But I wanna see him prove he deserves PT. I haven't given up on Gordon and after the good things Thabo has shown, I feel slightly conflicted about more guards coming in. We have so many guards; hopefully we'll see which ones should stay and get paid.  

by ForWhomTheBullTolls on Feb 21, 2008 4:59 PM CST reply actions  

i think that is what pax wants
every one of the guards busting ass to get PT...nothing like good competition to bring your game up.  call me crazy, but if hughes can run the point and thabo starts shooting a little better, why not pair thabo and hughes up to be our defensive gurus?

by Conor on Feb 21, 2008 5:16 PM CST up reply actions  

So Duhon is not involved
Chicago-area club owners have got to be breathing a sigh of relief.

by Big D on Feb 21, 2008 5:03 PM CST reply actions  

ZOM-GUH! Tanking Confirmed!
Centers: Aaron Gray
Power Forwards: Joakim Noah, Tyrus Thomas, Drew Gooden, Andres Nocioni
Small Forwards: Luol Deng, Demetris Nichols
Shooting Gaurds: Ben Gordon, Larry Worthless, Chris Duhon
Point Gaurds: Kirk Hinrich, Chris Duhon

So Larry is the 'excuse' to trade Gordon in the offseason. Gooden is the lesser version of Smith....he was keeping us in to many games, dont want to risk the 8th pick in the draft.

I hate John Paxson's brain.

Lottery Bound Horribulls. the bulls are tanking: http://www.blogabull.com/story/2007/11/19/31557/687

by hongydraw on Feb 21, 2008 5:05 PM CST reply actions  

This is what I want to know!
Are the Bulls really tanking?  

I think the primary idea behind this trade is an acknowledgement that they are not an elite team...so you might as well make the move toward development while there's still time left in the season to find out what you have.  

If that means another trip to the lottery, then so be it.

by eGirl on Feb 21, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions  

What?
C: Noah, Gray
PF: Gooden, Thomas, Noc
SF: Deng, Noc
SG: Thabo, Gordon, Hughes
PG: Hinrich, Hughes, Thabo

That is my personal depth chart bet.

by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Feb 21, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Sports Center
listed Duhon in the deal.  Is that true?

by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Feb 21, 2008 5:13 PM CST reply actions  

Never mind
it was amended.

by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Feb 21, 2008 5:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Wallace is better than most of you seem to think.
Yeah, he's half the player he used to be, and that's a huge disappointment, especially since Chandler has become so good.  But Wallace isn't the only player who disappointed us this year.  

I don't think any of the players the Bulls are getting are as good as Wallace.  Certainly Larry Hughes isn't.  Maybe Gooden could be if he returned to form, but that's a hope and a prayer.

On the other hand, this frees up time for Noah, who might be better than Wallace.  So maybe it is addition by subtraction.  

by Tim S. on Feb 21, 2008 5:15 PM CST reply actions  

I gotta be honest
I like the information color scheme better over at hoopshype and shamsports a lot better.
Goodbye Viktor, and Godspeed.

by bullshooter on Feb 21, 2008 5:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Understand
But nobody likes a copycat :)

We might add that in the future- at the moment we're trying to get as much accurate info up as possible :)

by Sports2 on Feb 21, 2008 6:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Assuming
that Gordon signs the QO, that means we will have 12 million to spend on Deng?

by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Feb 21, 2008 5:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep, until we hit the luxury tax
It breaks down like this:
Bulls have about:

$47.31M in guaranteed contracts

  • $711k Non-guaranteed contract to Gray we probably pick up. I'm not betting we do the same for Curry.
  • $1.8M or thereabouts for our 1st round pick (currently tracking at #10)
= $49.83M

The luxury tax (if it increases at about the same levels in the past ~ 4%) is estimated to be about $70.58M

Thus, we've got about $20.75M to work with to resign Deng and/or Gordon before we exceed the luxury tax threshold.  

Gordon's QO is $6.404M

So if he signs that, we can pay Deng up to $14.35M before we exceed the cap.  That looks pretty feasible to me.

At the moment, I think the only teams likely to be that much under the cap are Philly and Memphis.  

Memphis will have max money to dish out if they choose, though it's unclear if Deng or Gordon really fit with the rest of their team.

Philly has two significant FAs of their own to deal with; Andre Iguodala and Louis Williams.  It's very conceivable that they might have $10-12M left over after signing those guys, but so they're a bit of a danger to go after one of ours.

---------------

Other considerations:

  1. Resigning Duhon, Shannon brown or Cedric Simmons?  Could probably squeeze em in if they don't ask for much.
  2. Looking ahead to re-signing Gooden.  Especially if Gordon isn't resigned, it'd be nice to lock up Gooden.  However, the Bulls could be looking at $20M or so to spend in 2010 along with a solid core of players locked up.  I'd probably pick between signing one of those two guys to resign, and only do it then if I could move Nocioni for a shorter contract.  I think that's feasible, but it's no sure thing either.

by Sports2 on Feb 21, 2008 7:08 PM CST up reply actions  

If I knew how to link
I would shuttle the reader to this entry to the draftexpress and nbadraft.net profiles for Cedric Simmons.  Not a bad guy to take a flier on, sent him to the D-league, see if he develops.  You can't teach big, strong and athletic.  

by Freethefro on Feb 21, 2008 5:42 PM CST reply actions  

This is at least a good trade simply
because it should clear a at least 20+ min for Thomas and Noah.

The worst scenario is that Gooden plays 35 min/g, Boylan plays Noc a bunch of minutes at the 4 now that Deng is back, and Duhon somehow still plays 20+ min/g as Boylan tries every single 3 guard lineup he can.  I feel like I actually have to prepare myself for that possibility.

by Scotter on Feb 21, 2008 5:44 PM CST reply actions  

Your ultimate pragraph is my fear.
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 21, 2008 6:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Sam Smith just said
Paxson should be executive of the year for trading a player everyone thought was untradeable.

by eGirl on Feb 21, 2008 5:44 PM CST reply actions  

lol
He would have some pretty stiff competition in Kupchak and Riley... ;)

PS! I was crossing everything I had during the game that it would be BW's last as a Bull. IT FRICKEN WORKED!! :D ... I have to find other uses for my newfound gift...

by Bass on Feb 21, 2008 6:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Thank you
That's the feeling I have too! ;)

I will test to see if I have any crossing-power left by hoping Boylan gets his head out and starts coaching properly...

by Bass on Feb 21, 2008 6:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Pax is
going to speak shortly. CSN is going to carry it live.

by sue369 on Feb 21, 2008 6:39 PM CST reply actions  

It would be much appreciated
if someone wouldn't mind summarizing what he says for those of us who don't get Chicago stuff live.  I know we'll get it all in print eventually, but I hate waiting!
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Feb 21, 2008 6:42 PM CST up reply actions  

He said
that most of the reason for the trade was to develope the young guys (TT, Noah and Gray). He was asked by KC if he was surprised that they only got 1 1/2 years out of BW and he said he was surprised how this team has played so far this year. He didn't put blame on BW.

I had a phone call and didn't get to hear all of it but I'm sure CSN will have his pc on their site under their multimedia section later. Here's the link.

http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/

by sue369 on Feb 21, 2008 6:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks!
And BigD  :)
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Feb 21, 2008 7:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Paxson summary of 6:45 interview
Trade triggered by poor year.  Really felt team was going to be good.  He wants more minutes for Noah, TT asnd Gray.  Emphasized more time for Noah and TT and implied they will not be taken out if they make mistakes.  The development of these players are important.  This does not mean BG is going and does not indicate anything about BGs future.  There is competition now in the back-court.  Decisions have to be made about crowded back-court.  Unlikely that new players will play tomorrow night.   Still surprised about how season has gone south so quickly.  Still has confidence in drafted players.  Likes having young team going forward.  Did not feel pressure to make a deal.  He was gracious about BW.  Deal allows us to evaluate young players.  Emphasized he likes our young players.

by chgobr on Feb 21, 2008 7:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Notes from Pax's press conference:
He says the players still have to take physicals, and "probably" won't play Friday.

He talks about how this opens up more time in the frontcourt for the young guys.  He admits that it creates some issues in the backcourt, but he says he'll deal with that in the offseason.

Gordon will stay in the 6th man role.  Pax talked to BG today, and he claims that this doesn't mean that Gordon is on his way out (I don't believe him).

by Big D on Feb 21, 2008 6:56 PM CST reply actions  

If he'll sign at Paxson's price
there's no reason to not resign Gordon.  Resign Gordon and give away Nocioni to somebody who will take him, with Hughes on the team for at least next year at least Sefolosha can backup Deng along with competing with Hughes for minutes at SG.

by Scotter on Feb 21, 2008 7:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Let's see how Hughes fits in
but yeah, that could work.
Goodbye Viktor, and Godspeed.

by bullshooter on Feb 21, 2008 9:28 PM CST up reply actions  

I think this is a pretty good deal.
hughes could be good. and gooden has been like wallace with a lil less defense and a lot more O.

anyone think ben might be more motivated in cleveland? anyways good job pax.

by peace21 on Feb 21, 2008 7:01 PM CST reply actions  

Paxson says
today's trade was about this season being a disappointment.  He says we're not there yet, so moving forward it is time to give minutes to Noah and TT to develop them and see exactly what we have in those guys.  We moved out 2 bigs and only got 1 back.  He intimated that those extra minutes are gonna be for TT, Noah and even Gray to grow as players.

Be excited and relieved Bulls fans.  He sees the same thing we do, and recognized what needed to be done, and did it.  I agreed with a lot of what he said, and if Boylan can somehow be on the same page, then all the changes we've been griping for will finally be tested.

Why don't you crack an egg of knowledge all over me, buddy.

by MarketMaker on Feb 21, 2008 7:02 PM CST reply actions  

Everyone
is talking about how Larry Hughes is better suited as a slasher and finisher at the hoop.  But, BG and Noc have taught me that when you drove to the hoop you are supposed to throw the ball in the general direction of the basket then fall down and try to draw a foul not "Finish".  

by jpchi on Feb 21, 2008 7:19 PM CST reply actions  

Maybe he can
show Noch and BG how it's really suppose to be done.

by sue369 on Feb 21, 2008 7:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Unless Hughes rediscovers his
athleticism, he won't be finishing either.  He's shot 46% inside so far this year to Gordon's 45.4%.  Hughes has never been very good at making layups so unless he's able to dunk again don't expect any finishing.

by Scotter on Feb 21, 2008 7:29 PM CST up reply actions  

thanks
for those summaries.  i'm happy paxson is seeing the same things we are, and that development is the new mo.

by Freethefro on Feb 21, 2008 7:27 PM CST reply actions  

Rather strange
that ComCast is airing the SportsNet Sports Awards honering, among other figures from Chicago, Joe Smith - on the very day he's traded out of town...

Oh well.
Thanks for the memories, Joe.

The trades were needed and all that's left to be seen is how it will all play out.

Spring training....FINALLY!!

by Bluelou on Feb 21, 2008 7:38 PM CST reply actions  

Gerald Green just got
traded to the Rockets for 50 cents. I wonder if the Bulls could have made a play for him as well. AS insurance in case we trade away Deng in the offseason...

by DarthSidius on Feb 21, 2008 7:39 PM CST reply actions  

That's
a great trade. We got rid of 2 players that suck ass ( Wallace, Griff ). Smith played good but he's old. I rather pay Hughes, Gooden then Griff, Wallace. We got better and deeper. Noah,Gooden will grab tons of boards. Hughes can provide more scoring. Bigger guard. How about a lineup like this on the court for a period of time Gordon, Hughes, Deng, Gooden, Noch. We can score . Wow.

by chris44 on Feb 21, 2008 7:44 PM CST reply actions  

Wow
the other team will score too.

by sue369 on Feb 21, 2008 7:54 PM CST up reply actions  

My thoughts
  • Good trade.  Hughes is at least as good as Wallace.  It'll also be a lot easier to trade him in the last year of his contract.
  • I just hope this doesn't mean that Aaron Gray gets more minutes as a backup center.  If he doesn't that means Gooden will have to play it.  Does anyone know if that's something he can do effectively?
  • Thank goodness we'll never see Thomas at the 3 again.
  • This doesn't really make Gordon expendable.  Duhon will be gone after this year, as will Shannon Brown.  When Hughes gets hurt, we'd be down to Hinrich and Sefolosha with no good backup.  Also, i'm scared to think about our top 3 guards being as inconsistent as Hinrich, Sef, and Hughes.  I don't see a problem with committing a lot of money to our guards.  Seeing as how Noah and Thomas are locked up to long rookie contracts, it's not like the money needs to be committed to our bigs.  By the time that happens, Hughes will be off the books.

by rexisourqb on Feb 21, 2008 7:52 PM CST reply actions  

The new pace of Bulls games
Because of the logjam at both guard positions, I expect Boylan to occasionally play Hughes and Thabo at the 3, and Deng and Nocioni at the 4.  

With Smith and Wallace gone, that leaves us with one of the smallest, fastest teams in the NBA.  Maybe we won't be Suns/Warriors fast, but I think we'll see a lot more 100 point games from here on out.

In a related story, Michael Sweetney just bought season tickets.

by YaoPau on Feb 21, 2008 7:59 PM CST reply actions  

You figure they'd be able to
go big or small, with some pretty interesting and effective lineups after this trade:

Big:
1-Hughes/Thabo
2-Thabo/Deng
3-Thomas(maybe? Probably still just Deng)
4-Gooden/Noah
C-Gray/Noah

Small:
1-Kirk/Du
2-BG/Kirk
3-Deng/Noc/Hughes/Thabo
4-Thomas
5-Noah/Gooden

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Feb 21, 2008 10:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Ahhh the Boylan factor.
How sad.

If only Gooden and Hughes did have to earn their minutes/starting spot.

If I had my choice, Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, Thomas and Noah would all be guaranteed 30+ mpg. Fuck the mistakes. See what happens. After that, Thabo, Hughes, Nocioni, Gooden would fight it out for the rest of the time. Aaron Gray would play the "special"  15 mpg --   15  0   0   0   0   0   15   0  0   0  0 15.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 21, 2008 8:01 PM CST reply actions  

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!!!!!!!!!!
Henry Abbot is saying Duhon ISN'T part of the deal??? Oh Holy Hell.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 21, 2008 8:08 PM CST reply actions  

we just got really young
at 23.7 years average.  This is the first time I've felt some excitement over the Bulls since the season began.    

by Freethefro on Feb 21, 2008 8:18 PM CST reply actions  

Are we
Younger than Portland?

by Option27 on Feb 21, 2008 8:31 PM CST up reply actions  

YES!!
I love the idea of being the youngest team in the league.

Not sure why. I just love it

by Option27 on Feb 21, 2008 9:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Any word yet
on whether Hughes or Gooden plays tomorrow?

by Option27 on Feb 21, 2008 9:14 PM CST reply actions  

Pax said
tonight he didn't think any of them would play tomorrow night.

by sue369 on Feb 21, 2008 9:22 PM CST up reply actions  

apparently
all 11 players involved have to arrive at their new destinations and pass their physicals before anybody can play...that's unlikely to happen before tomorrow's game.

I gotta think they'll play on Sunday though.

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 9:45 PM CST up reply actions  

So what you're saying is
Tomorrow could feature a starting line up of Hinrich, Sefolosha, Deng, Tyrus and Noah?!

pinch me

by Option27 on Feb 21, 2008 10:07 PM CST up reply actions  

you forgot
Deng is still earning his way back, so Noce will probably be starting

consider yourself informed, but not pinched  :)

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 10:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Help for PeeOn?
Likely that both Brown and Simmons get sent to the D-League, right?  

by paxson43 on Feb 21, 2008 9:29 PM CST reply actions  

It's amazing
how much hype ESPN is putting on the Cavs aquiring Ben Wallace. If I was a Cavs fan, I'd be more excited about getting Szczerbiak and Smith(and Delonte West, I guess) than Wallace.

I'm so glad he's not a Bull. God, he was just the worst with this team.

"Jerome James PER.. is 46.68... Do that trade now! Screw Horford, we don't need him. Jerome is a monster!!!!!!!!!" - BNeL21

by NittanyBull on Feb 21, 2008 9:38 PM CST reply actions  

Nice Trade
Now get rid of Kirk. He is a logjam.  Everyone keeps saying we need the other guards to help play the point, because Kirk doesn't cut the mustard at that position.  

This is the reason Duhon plays so much, and receives Duhon hate.  With good point guards, the backup rarely get minutes.  With Kirk at the helm, the Bulls need Duhon in a bad way.

Let him (Kirk) go for a real point guard in the 2008 draft.  If Paxson could get rid of Wallace then Kirk and his large contract is also trade-a-able.  The Bulls need a distributor who can also score, not a shoot first PG, average distributor who doesn't make the players around him better.

This isn't a popular position here, but Paxson should be aggressive and this move will save his job, if he can also land a real leader at the point in the draft.

This is Paxson's opportunity to redeem himself from the summmer of 2006, this trade today is a step in the right right.  Now finish it before the summer is over.

by exult463 on Feb 21, 2008 9:41 PM CST reply actions  

there's a lot of quality in this draft
and several point guards.  but I dare not speak the names, since draft talk is quarantined....

by Freethefro on Feb 21, 2008 9:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Why can't be the PG Thabo?
Then we have Thabo and Hughes and BG and Hinrich are expendable.

by hlac on Feb 21, 2008 10:40 PM CST up reply actions  

But dont both
Larry Hughes and Gooden wear headbands lol.

by eross226 on Feb 21, 2008 9:43 PM CST reply actions  

woo hoo!!
he gong!
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Feb 21, 2008 9:50 PM CST reply actions  

Kudos to Joe Smith
Who really stepped up his game so that they could package him and BW for this trade!

by RogersPark Kris on Feb 21, 2008 9:57 PM CST reply actions  

Shannon Brown might not be filler
I recall Paxson really liked him going into the 2006 draft.  Not sure if the minutes are going to be there right now, but long term, you never know.  It is nice, however, to be added more athleticism - all four of these guys are better athletes than the three we gave up.  

My only worry is that Gooden takes the Tyrus minutes at PF.  The point - as Pax noted - is to develop our young talent.  I just hope Boylan heard that loud and clear.

by Freethefro on Feb 21, 2008 10:01 PM CST reply actions  

Paxson was also
always very high on Khryapa and then allowed Viktor to be buried on our bench.....I still think when offensive times were tough for us, Viktor's passing and shooting skills might have helped, but I guess his D lapses are worse than Noc's in that at least Noc can play D (just has lapses, whereas I never saw much D at all in the 15 minutes we saw Khryapa play).....

I wouldn't expect much from Brown on the Bulls especially since we have a ton of higher quality guards.....but you never know.

by majoyenrac on Feb 21, 2008 10:14 PM CST up reply actions  

if by
"very high" you meant he wanted him because he was trade filler...then I have to say you are correct

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 10:37 PM CST up reply actions  

No I don't mean purely as traid bait
Paxson said last year after the season closed and this year before the season started that he was "still very high on Viktor" and "don't count Viktor out".  Those were on the radio and I believe also on either the Chic tribune site or maybe even Bulls.com.

He made some more comments about Viktor after his success in the summer league last year and said that he was having trouble fitting in with Deng and Noc's playing time, but again reiterated he was still high on Viktor.

If Viktor was trade bait, I think we would have auditioned him more.

I think that is why Pax let Viktor go, and while it made his job easier because we don't have to cut anyone, Viktor was hardly as bad as his playing time would suggest.....

by majoyenrac on Feb 21, 2008 10:56 PM CST up reply actions  

learn to read
I never said trade "bait"...I said trade "filler"...meaning he was a throw-in to the original draft night trade last year

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 22, 2008 8:05 AM CST up reply actions  

I am excited to see how the offense
flows without Wallace.  I think the league adjusted to the bulls this year as much as anything.  Playing 5 on 5 should help all of them.
Goodbye Viktor, and Godspeed.

by bullshooter on Feb 21, 2008 10:06 PM CST reply actions  

Hopefully this will help BG
Playing 4-5 allowed other teams to easily double-team BG and get the ball out of his hands (or a TO).

by chgobr on Feb 22, 2008 6:42 AM CST up reply actions  

the players may miss Ben?

Throughout his comments Pax stood right in front of the Bull logo, with the horns seemingly coming out of his head. Cracks me up--he looks like a little devil.

So long Ben--hope Cleveland rejuvenates you. Bother Sheed in the playoffs--Detroit fans are starting to hate Cleveland as much as Chicago, so anything that might make them madder is good in my book.

I'm nervous for Thabo, but this is great for Noah.

I thought this was an interesting quote from Chris Broussard's take on the deal:

Word is the Bulls players are upset about losing Big Ben. While he wasn't the force he had been in Detroit, he was the club's enforcer and a well-liked guy in the locker room.

by T Maple on Feb 21, 2008 10:13 PM CST reply actions  

Yes!
Fascinating quote.

Is it really possible that the players have that big of a different perception of things than the fans?

Noah is a hussle machine, and Matt Duhon is our best guard.

by preverbal on Feb 21, 2008 10:29 PM CST up reply actions  

i read that as well
you have to wonder where these "insiders" get their information from at times...by "Bulls players" does he mean all 12 or could it mean 2 or 3 guys...you have to take comments like that with a grain of salt.

At the same time, I don't doubt that he was a good locker room guy...Ben has always been likeable to me...he just can't play for crap.  You have to seperate personal feelings from, uhh, trying to win games feelings

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 21, 2008 10:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Uh
I'm surprised I have to say that winning solves everything.  This might just help us win now and in the future.  I like it.
Interest Level = Wins - Losses + 2*Tyrus Time + 1.5*(Thabo + Noah Time) - .4*Bricked layups + 3*Red Kerr Candies

by cubbybear on Feb 21, 2008 11:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Ding dong the 'Fro is dead!
Which old 'Fro?
The Big Ben 'Fro!
Ding dong the bullshit overrated team cancer 'fro is dead!!!

Seriously, as cancers go, Hughes has GOT to be better than Wallace.

Noah is a hussle machine, and Matt Duhon is our best guard.

by preverbal on Feb 21, 2008 10:26 PM CST reply actions  

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KnicksDefense.com
T. Jose Caldeford
Hoopinion
RaptorBlog.com
Suns @NBAWeblog.com
The Cowhide Globe
Stepien Rules
Project Spurs
Raptors Republic
Dino Nation Blog
Lake Show Life
Valley of the Suns
The KnicksBlog.com
Big Lakers Fan
Roundball Mining Company
Cavs: The Blog
48 Minutes of Hell
Daily Thunder
Piston Powered
The Two Man Game
PistonsNationBlog.com
Cowbell Kingdom.com
Hot Hot Hoops
NetsAreScorching
Celtics Hub
Orlando Magic Daily
Philadunkia
Truth About It
Always Miller Time
Slippery When Nets
Eight Points Nine Seconds
Howlin' T-Wolf
Red 94

MSM NBA blogs:
Ira Winderman (Heat)
Jason Quick (Blazers)
IndyStar.com (Pacers)
Michael Cunningham (Hawks) 
Full-Court Press (Pistons)
Jonathan Feigen (Rockets)
Rick Bonnell (Bobcats)
Jazz Notes
Chris Herrington (Grizzlies)
Orlando Sentinel
Michael Lee (Wizards)
Alan Hahn (Knicks)   
Doug Smith (Raptors)
Marc Berman (Knicks)
Al Iannazzone (Nets)

For the Statheads:
Basketball-Reference.com
APBR Discussion
Knickerblogger's Stat Page
82Games.com
Doug's Stats
Popcorn Machine
HoopData

Other Resources:
HoopsHype Salaries
SportsTwo Salaries
ESPN.com Trade Machine
RealGM: NBA Draftpicks Owed
ShamSports.com Salaries
DraftExpress

 

Guy who does everything

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