Gasol post-mortem (a.k.a. Open Game Thread #46: Bulls at Sacramento Kings)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 2, 2008 6:10 PM CST in News

This resigned feeling I get over the Gasol non-acquisition is settling in like it did in the days after the Scola non-acquisition: the Bulls just didn't have what the other team wanted, or at least not at the right time.

Sam fills us in:

Bulls were prepared to offer their lottery pick and young players and the expiring contract of P.J. Brown last year to Memphis. But the Grizzlies declined to deal Gasol then. When they got ready last month, the Bulls no longer had enough in expiring contracts. They could have tried to do a sign-and-trade deal with Brown, which is permitted since he last played for them, but it would have put the team well into the luxury tax and, in effect, cost $25 million to $30 million this season to have Gasol with money paid to Brown, the tax penalty and revenues not received from teams over the tax.

And Mike McGraw:

The Bulls thought they had a deal for Gasol a few weeks ago involving Nocioni and some other pieces, but it fell through when Memphis wanted the Bulls to take on an additional bad contract.

The Bulls might have been able to match the offer by using retired forward P.J. Brown as part of a trade, along with expiring contracts like Chris Duhon and Viktor Khryapa.

Simply put, the Bulls aren't in position to take on Gasol because they already have an inflated payroll. Next season, they are committed to paying Ben Wallace $14.5 million, Kirk Hinrich $10 million and Nocioni around $7.5 million. Assuming they re-sign restricted free agents Deng and Ben Gordon to deals starting at $10 million, that makes $52 million committed to five players.

Add Gasol's $15.1 million salary, and the Bulls would be moving well beyond the current luxury-tax threshold of $67.9 million, unless they were able to unload some payroll somehow.

So, on the one hand you can see what Paxson's up against, and this non-deal can be explained away like it has been in not getting Bryant, or Scola, or anyone.

But it's also pretty damning that he can assemble a team this terrible, and simultaneously have a cap situation so inflexible.

But that's what happens when you talk about a luxury tax edict, yet sign Nocioni to a 5 year contract, and Joe Smith to a 2 year contract.

Or when you're reluctant to trade away young frontcourt talent like Thomas and Noah, yet can't find a way to get them on the court.

So right now we have a team that's supposedly gunning for the playoffs, yet can't get an upgrade.

And sure, tough to rag on Pax for a non-move, as we don't know the information. But we do know this team he has sucks, and has had 2 coaches now say they've quit. So as much as staying the course may be the best move, it's also tough seeing what he's so committed to.

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Well, the hope

is that he's committed to bring in a new coach next year who will commit to playing our young 'uns. Trading some vets in the offseason might help that as well.

by BenGo07 on Feb 2, 2008 6:18 PM CST 0 recs

so, 2 seasons down the drain

this year. And next year playing the youngins.

blech.

I wouldn't be surprised if Pax resigns before then anyway. He just doesn't seem to enjoy or be actively involved in GM-ing.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 2, 2008 6:25 PM CST up 0 recs

Playin the Youngins

Playin' the Youngins doesn't necessarily translate to a losing season. The Bulls won with quite a few young guys over the last couple years. Portland's winning with youngins. Atlanta, etc.

What you do have to do to win with youngins is be willing to give them playing time, like Portland or Atlanta did when they were bad in the last couple years, so that they can learn the game. Otherwise they'll always be rookies.

A lineup of Noah, Deng, Thomas, Hinrich, and Gordon might still be able to be effective next year, although it'd be nice to change one or two of those parts perhaps. But that lineup isn't going to be effective next year if Noah and Thomas play 10 minutes a game this year.

by balta1701 on Feb 2, 2008 6:46 PM CST up 0 recs

yup, and like you says

the development year should be THIS season.

I can't believe we have to look to Portland and Atlanta as examples. They were using the Bulls as examples. ugh.

But I'm still setting the bar higher than 'non-losing' season next year. Eastern Conference finals this year. And next. Or Pax is out. I don't see the need in giving him a grace period to undo his own mistakes.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 2, 2008 7:51 PM CST up 0 recs

Except it's not that easy...

...to make the Conference Finals. Name the teams that have done it over the past 5 years, and it's easy to see how this Bulls team comes up short.

I don't fault Pax too much for this season because it was impossible to predict that November. I'm glad he's not making a move just because of that horrible start. I will end up faulting him in another month, though, when Tyrus still isn't getting 15 mpg.

I guess I can just be patient for another year or two because a) Garnett's still damn good and b) the Bulls have three very young, very high-potential guys and c) the Bulls have been winning the past 3 seasons. Sorry, the future doesn't lie with the core of Hinrich, Gordon, Deng and Nocioni but with Deng, Thomas and Noah.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 2, 2008 9:39 PM CST up 0 recs

On the mistakes thing...

...I would. Although, I think you giving him until the end of next season is giving him a chance to undo mistakes. There are a lot of things that need to be done this off-season which includes futures decisions on Duhon, Gordon and Deng. If he can get rid of Wallace and/or Smith before the trade deadline, I'll be optimistic going into the off-season.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 2, 2008 9:47 PM CST up 0 recs

Kiki

I think management should fire Paxson and bring in Kiki. Now is the time to do it, while the Bulls still have some free agents.

And I'm not buying this story that the Bulls didn't have what the grizzlies want. Kryhapa, Duhon and Brown could easy have made up for Kwame's salary. You can easily replace Critteron with Selfolosha. We have a pick this year, better than what the lakers will have.

All that leaves is a 2010 lottery pick? Well, we have one of those too! Wow, that took 5 minutes. And the Grizz got better picks and a better prospect from the Bulls. Don't be fooled

Paxson chose not to make this deal. It takes two to negotiate, who knows if the Grizz didn't propose something similar. The Bulls aren't committed to winning. And they haven't been in 10 years. Ridiculous.

by danger mouse on Feb 2, 2008 6:49 PM CST 0 recs

sure, Pax could have gotten Gasol

but at what price? I'd rather see if TT and Noah can develop and gel.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Feb 2, 2008 7:13 PM CST up 0 recs

dangermouse didn't say either of those

Khryapa/Duhon/Thabo/PJ and 2 first-rounders.

Works for me.

But there's that pesky luxury tax, and once again that MEGA Nocioni contract has screwed us again :)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 2, 2008 7:40 PM CST up 0 recs

A part of McGraw's article

you don't quote mentions that the Lakes were willing to 75 mil into the tax while the Bulls weren't willing to go 68.

To me that says the Lakers are comitted to winning...and the Bulls aren't.

by alec on Feb 2, 2008 8:10 PM CST up 0 recs

OK Mariotti :-)

the Lakers are going for a title, and the Bulls are so far away that paying the tax now makes little sense.

Perhaps I'm just hoping this is true instead of believing it, but if this was a 'missing piece' type move, the Bulls would go over the tax.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 2, 2008 8:42 PM CST up 0 recs

If we don't get a smart coach ...

We'll never play our rookies. Ever. We're rebuilding with a veteran movement right now. It's not working.
Basically, though, we're doomed to not have a shot until BW comes off the books, and I don't see how this changes that.
This is one of the few games I can watch. I hope they win, and TT gets a double-double. :P

by Prevenge on Feb 2, 2008 7:17 PM CST 0 recs

Hope I

can stay awake for the whole game tonight. :-)

Never went to church camp but I did go to Girl Scout camp. If you ever need help making a campfire I'm your girl. :P

by sue369 on Feb 2, 2008 7:17 PM CST 0 recs

Hopefully

there is enough space to sign du to a six year extension this offseason, gritty lil bastard

by Beef Wennington on Feb 2, 2008 7:24 PM CST 0 recs

If they don't have room,

they need to MAKE room! At the end of the bench.

by Freethefro on Feb 2, 2008 7:30 PM CST up 0 recs

Iur next coach

should be Billy Donovan. He can develope the youngsters and knows how to use Noah effectively. Just throwing a name out there rite now.

by eross226 on Feb 2, 2008 7:30 PM CST 0 recs

or coach K

he's a chicago guy!

(I'm kidding. No college coaches)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 2, 2008 7:38 PM CST up 0 recs

Bobby Knight

vs. the body

by Beef Wennington on Feb 2, 2008 7:48 PM CST up 0 recs

Donovan

can't take an NBA job for five years, as part of his agreement with the Magic to let him out of his contract.

by BenGo07 on Feb 2, 2008 7:39 PM CST up 0 recs

No pass for Pax

Gimme a break. He's been talking to the Griz for a freaking year. He ought to have had an idea what they, and any other team that's trading away a top flight player wanted.

1. Saying they didn't have the right piece at the right time is a lame excuse.

First, the Bulls had all kinds of options to maintain flexibility this summer. The bottom line was Pax looked at his guys and thought he didn't need to do much. If he did, then why on earth would have have signed up Smith and Noc and passed on moves like dealing PJ Brown expiring deal at last year's deadline for Kurt Thomas who expires this year (although, unlike PJ, he appears actually capable of still playing).

Second, don't tell me a deal couldn't have been worked to turn up an expiring contract. Joe Smith has some value to a team looking to upgrade. Noc theoretically does, at least. If the Bulls were looking to make it happen, I don't think they were looking hard enough or in the right places.

by Sports2 on Feb 2, 2008 7:43 PM CST 0 recs

I agree

although your idea of pawning Smith on Miami seems far-fetched. But a week ago I shat on the idea of pawning Noc off for expirings from the Nets, and that wouldn't have been such a bad idea.

If Smith and/or Noc isn't traded by the deadline, we really need to tell Pax's family to quit using up the family plan minutes.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 2, 2008 7:46 PM CST up 0 recs

Heh

Maybe it was, but it's one I thought of in about 30 seconds.

At the verge of reaching a true state of Armchair GM self-parody though, I think given the couple weeks Pax appears to have had, I could have found a deal :)

I'm pretty sure any set of expiring deals we could get for Smith, plus Duhon or Khyrapa, would get us where we need to be salary-wise. Not to mention if we ended up throwing in an player like Thabo or Thomas

Joe Smith for Jamaal Magloire?
Shannon Brown and Ira Newble?
Eduardo Najera?
Some combination of guys from Golden State (Barnes, Pietrus, O'Bryant)?
Kirk Snyder and Steve Francis?
Smith and change might have gotten us Kwame for that matter.
Pat Garrity and one of that useless combination of useless guards Orlando has (Reddick, Dooling?)
Back to the Sixers (who didn't want him to leave) for Kevin Ollie and Shavlik Randolph or Giricek?
San Antonio might be willing to move Brent Barry for a guy like Smith
Seattle's lease on Kurt Thomas is almost up. Maybe they'd want to get a year of Smith's "veteran leadership"
Brian Colangelo likes guys who can shoot. Would he be interested in turning Rasho into Smith?

I dunno. I just see Smith as being a guy on a reasonable contract with a reasonable set of skills. I think that's somewhat true of Noc too. For a team that wants to rebuild but has a star or too (like Miami or New Jersey), he might be attractive as well.

by Sports2 on Feb 2, 2008 9:46 PM CST up 0 recs

This is a big test for our 'coach'

Smith's ready to go and It's unclear whether he'll start or not. A couple days ago it was reported that Noah would likely keep the job.

Plus, he's noncommittal on Thabo holding HIS job when Duh gets back to half-speed.

Someone ask coach corpse what to do.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 2, 2008 7:44 PM CST 0 recs

if we ever trot out

Duh and Smith in the starting lineup again, that's it. I'm a Bucks fan.

by Freethefro on Feb 2, 2008 8:03 PM CST up 0 recs

I just don't

understand how Du should get any shot at starting over Thabo. What more does Thabo have to prove?

Never went to church camp but I did go to Girl Scout camp. If you ever need help making a campfire I'm your girl. :P

by sue369 on Feb 2, 2008 8:14 PM CST up 0 recs

He must

have some dirt on Pax. Du should not be allowed on the bench during games

TMD- http://playahatersblog.blogspot.com

by TMD on Feb 2, 2008 9:19 PM CST up 0 recs

Duhon and Smith

need to be reserves Thabo and Noah need to develop

by TMD on Feb 2, 2008 9:36 PM CST up 0 recs

Ugh

WGN

by gobulls1124 on Feb 2, 2008 9:02 PM CST 0 recs

So far the Kings feed leaves something to be

desired, too. Pick your poison, I guess.

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Feb 2, 2008 9:09 PM CST up 0 recs

I'm glad that

Thabo and Noah are starting

TMD- http://playahatersblog.blogspot.com

by TMD on Feb 2, 2008 9:16 PM CST 0 recs

The Only Reason To Watch is 3 for 3.....Noah

by BiNgO on Feb 2, 2008 9:28 PM CST 0 recs

He is playing well

I am glad he is getting the playing time. We need to see what we have with him

Tom

by TMD on Feb 2, 2008 9:29 PM CST up 0 recs

Hey! The game's on Antenna TV!

Brad Miller looks hilarious driving to the hoop, I have to say. He's so slow. Soooo sloooow.

by Prevenge on Feb 2, 2008 9:30 PM CST 0 recs

Has anyone noticed

whether Red seems to coming down much harder on Walace's lack of offense lately?

by alec on Feb 2, 2008 9:31 PM CST 0 recs

Kevin Martin

is killing us

by TMD on Feb 2, 2008 9:32 PM CST 0 recs

viktor in for noc

we were calling for a little of that

by alec on Feb 2, 2008 9:38 PM CST 0 recs

drive cut off ,

found BG for a basket, rather than force up a snot a la noc

by alec on Feb 2, 2008 9:40 PM CST up 0 recs

When was the last time the guys shot 75%

in a quarter?

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Feb 2, 2008 9:40 PM CST 0 recs

We already have

half the points as we did last game.

by eross226 on Feb 2, 2008 9:41 PM CST 0 recs

Joe Smooth

This will mean less minutes for our boy

by Option27 on Feb 2, 2008 9:46 PM CST 0 recs

Du nice pass to Tyrus

by alec on Feb 2, 2008 9:49 PM CST 0 recs

viktor another nice pass

by alec on Feb 2, 2008 9:53 PM CST 0 recs

Not cool Gordon

Take care of the freak'n ball during a fast break. You should be reward Tyrus for his sprinting, not doing your twinkle toes turnover routine. Guh.

by cranscape on Feb 2, 2008 9:54 PM CST 0 recs

TT may be headed

to the bench with two quick fouls

by TMD on Feb 2, 2008 9:54 PM CST 0 recs

viktor another nice pass

ho-hum

by alec on Feb 2, 2008 9:55 PM CST 0 recs

That second personal foul on TT

was dogshit.

Good stretch for Tyrus, though.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 2, 2008 9:56 PM CST 0 recs

If this team could just get rid of Wallace.

Nothing else would need to be done for the rest of the year.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 2, 2008 9:57 PM CST 0 recs

Boy, do I wanto to see Tyrus

and Noah on the court at the same time.

That being said, I am very encouraged by the playing time for Noah and TT, albeit in different lineups.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 2, 2008 9:57 PM CST 0 recs

What the hell was Kirk aiming for?

by TMD on Feb 2, 2008 9:59 PM CST 0 recs

Gamecast says Thabo only 2 minutes,

is he hurt?

by Freethefro on Feb 2, 2008 9:59 PM CST 0 recs

He isn't playing well.

KMart is schooling him.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 2, 2008 10:02 PM CST up 0 recs

that's disappointing.

by Freethefro on Feb 2, 2008 10:05 PM CST up 0 recs

So what?

I can't wait for next year when Duhon will be GONE.

by marionette on Feb 2, 2008 10:08 PM CST up 0 recs

In case you guys didn't know ..

They call him K-Mart.

Thanks Wayne.

by gobulls1124 on Feb 2, 2008 10:03 PM CST 0 recs

Too many &^%&^! turnovers.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 2, 2008 10:05 PM CST 0 recs

Kirk with lob attempt

to Wallace??? Maybe last year.....

by marionette on Feb 2, 2008 10:06 PM CST 0 recs

Come on Bulls, finish a quarter

well for once.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 2, 2008 10:07 PM CST 0 recs

Free throws and TOs

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Feb 2, 2008 10:08 PM CST 0 recs

Artest is a very tough

assignment for Noah.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 2, 2008 10:09 PM CST 0 recs

Guh.

Duhon and Wallace on the floor at the same time is killing us. And I am not sure if having Noc in there at the same time as those to does us any good either.

by cranscape on Feb 2, 2008 10:13 PM CST 0 recs

Tyrus should be on Artest in the

second half.

He did a nice time shutting him down.

Artest was feasting on Noah and Noc.

We can and should win this game.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 2, 2008 10:14 PM CST 0 recs

Artest is a reaaly tough

match-up for anyone.

by alec on Feb 2, 2008 10:20 PM CST up 0 recs

Mike Brown

an older Mike Sweetney?

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Feb 2, 2008 10:18 PM CST 0 recs

I have mixed feelings.

"What are you going to teach them?"

"They have to be consistent and work hard. They need to learn how to be pros. Doing well in practice doesn't mean you get more minutes in the game. (why the hell not?!?!) They probably never sat this much." (Tyrus friggin' redshirted)

Okay, well his specific player comments weren't so bad except the first one.

"What do you teach Aaron Gray?"

"You can't teach size. (um, yeah) Learn how to be more aggressive on defense w/o picking up fouls."

Noah

He's agressive. Teach him how to be a better offensive rebounder even though he's good at it already. Teach him moves since he's going to be quicker than most centers he plays.

Tyrus

Um, he was really good as a rookie so he's not getting as much playing time this year, obviously. So I need to teach him how to not be mad about that because it's really fucking stupid. Just pray for a sprained ankle and he finally might get into the starting lineup like he should be. (seriously, he said exactly that)

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 2, 2008 10:29 PM CST up 0 recs