Postgame Bulls-Heat thoughts

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 15, 2008 12:14 AM CST in News

I underestimated how much more fun the game would be without Ben Wallace. Tyrus played 38 minutes, starting at PF and going against Shawn Marion the whole game.

How did it go? Well, overall it was a pretty good night (I arrived late and missed the first 5-6 minutes, from the comments it sounds like he was a bit overanxious from the tip). He had some spectacular blocks, not just the usual weak side help but also a couple special ones against Marion: once catching him on a breakaway and another simply beating him to the peak when Marion thought he had an easy dunk. Tyrus also had a key steal off of him while he was inbounding the ball in the fourth. On offense it was a mixed bag: he was missing some close shots, and got blocked 3 times, which has been an alarming trend all season and showing that he needs to get more crafty when attacking the rim. The good was 6 FTAs and I thought could've gotten a couple more calls. Also, that he was posting up often instead of rushing into jumpshots. He had one turnaround fadeaway which airballed, but beyond that there weren't too many bad decisions in the shot selection. He's bigger than Marion and knew that Miami was generally soft inside so it was wise to attack as much as possible.

He also had 12 boards, as did Thabo, who is continually showing what a great complement he can be to Hinrich and Gordon: a guard who can rebound and will attack strong on the break. He still needs work on his point-guard duties (I guess Fratello thought so too), but the rest is a good foundation. To re-emphasize the rebounding: the Heat in total had 4 offensive rebounds, and I'd have to think that'd be a higher figure if a certain cement-shoed headband-wearer was logging 35 minutes in the game.

But of course, Boylan usually looks competent only out of necessity. Hinrich and Duhon played nearly equal minutes, and you'd think Hinrich now (10-18, 24 points) has earned his spot, but from what we've seen of Boylan Hinrich's performance will only encourage the idea that he's now a great spark off the bench. There was also not a lot of Noah considering Wallace was out and Aaron Gray sat the whole second half after dislocating his finger. And a dangerous idea of going to 3-guards (at least Thabo going forward gives an actual sensible option when wanting to use 3-guards, but Gordon instead of Duh) in the fourth quarter that wound up not hurting much, but the memory of seeing Duhon come in for Thomas was a scary one.

But for once I can't complain about burying Tyrus Thomas. He certainly was given a long rope (and at his natural position!), and that was great to see.

Although I'm still very cautious to think what will happen in the second half, provided (and man I'm hoping) Deng and Gordon are healthy and back. I guess we should now expect 'earn your spot' silliness for the first few games, but this stretch of games has provided plenty of evidence that Sefolosha, Thomas, and Noah should be in the rotation. I'm hoping it won't be forgotten. (and a trimming-the-old trade won't hurt)

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I was very frustrated

I was at the game tonight too, and while I loved seeing Tyrus get his time, we really showed all night that we were the better team, yet Boylan's crappy rotations kept the Heat in the game. All it would have taken was one silly Thabo turnover more from the Heat stealing this one....thankfully down the stretch Boylan resisited the urge to keep Duhon in despite how well Thabo played, and put Thabo in for the bulk of the 4th with Hinrich......had that not happened, we would have lost the game.

I saw a few times Tyrus would miss a defensive rotation, which left a few easy outside 3 shots (and made Nocioni look like a scapegoat, as Noc ran away from his man to play catchup--made me wonder a bit if that's why it seems Noc leaves his man more, there were at least 2 instances tonight where it seemed Noc lost his man, but Noc was covering his man through a rotation, and the Bulls player who was supposed to roate didn't switch it up.

Gray looked decent tonight (of course that's pretty easy against this Heat team), but I was rather surprised that Boylan didn't keep Gray out there and keep feeding him the ball so that we could put this one away. Having the game nip on being close, was ridiculous to me, Gray seemed to have no trouble getting easy baskets tonight.

Finally for coaching issues, why was Joakim sitting for so damned long, especially in the first half. Again, his smart play helped us garner baskets--even if an important ball tip counted for a Sef rebound and basket, plays like that (and the continued bball IQ of Noah, should warrant more PT especially against a weak opponent like the HEAT and especially when our Bulls team is already undermanned (no BG, Deng and I guess it could be troublesome Wallace).

Still, this game seemed like it was ours to lose all night, and it seemed like we should have had a blow out, it never really was as close as the score would indicate. The crowd at least by me never really got too into the game either.

It's a shame to see Wade less explosive than he's been in the past. There were flashes of the old flash, but if I were Riley, I'd sit DWade out for a while if not the season and hope the time will help him recover from that knee injury. Wade's still a smart player, and had a solid night, but he looked like a player putting up good stats on a bad team, instead of the MVP caliber player he was pre shoulder injury last year (And MVP caliber he had been in the few years before that).

The Heat need to get a PG and a Center and then they should at least be back to contending. Marion and Wade seem to have makings of a nice tandem, but their supporting cast has to be the worst fit cast in the league.....

Very disappointing what a year can make, as my wife and I went to the Heat season game last year and both teams are shells of their former selves, but while the Bulls aren't good but aren't awful, the Heat right now are as bad as their record suggests.....Wade deserves better.

Oh well, those were my from the stands view (likely less stats driven than had I watched from TV, etc) of tonights game.

Fire Boylan, hire Brown, JVG, or Carlisle today so we can get a second talent evaluator there before we make another wrong decision this offseason with our two "premier" players in Deng and Gordon......give a solid talent evaluator/coach a few months to see how players he's seen on the other side interact with the team and sets.....Boylan had better not be our guy past this season....he's Skiles-lite.

by majoyenrac on Feb 15, 2008 12:33 AM CST 0 recs

Aaron as the 4th-quarter, put-it-away guy...

ROCK!!!

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 15, 2008 8:13 AM CST up 0 recs

Definately not every or even most nights

But the way he was handling the Heat, I'd say for sure.

He's already better than Blount (not saying much) and is much better than Curry was until maybe year 3....so that's promising.

I know he's slow, but really he's a guy who would have been more suited to the "old" NBA than today's NBA. Still I really liked what I saw from him (live at least from the rafters) last night, he was active, and his real post moves on a team thats gone forever since they had a true offensive center (not since the Curry days) was very refreshing.

He's a great 2nd round pick.

by majoyenrac on Feb 15, 2008 8:40 AM CST up 0 recs

Curry led the league in FG%

for one of his first 2 years (I believe it was as a rookie).

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Feb 15, 2008 9:47 AM CST up 0 recs

yes

And he probably also lead the league in turnovers per 40 minutes and was the least effective defensive C in the league, and got little boards.

Gray's more solid in all those other categories than Curry was in yrs 2 and 3 at least...

I think Gray could be comparable as a player--maybe not quite the points---but who knows maybe even points too, especially if he was fed the ball as often as Curry has been.

by majoyenrac on Feb 15, 2008 10:00 AM CST up 0 recs

Call me crazy but I continue to believe

Gray, with a great deal of work this summer, could be a helpful player for us next year. He does have reasonable moves inside and at times, again only at times, he seems to know what to do on defense. He does get some good rebounds. It is hard to teach 7'1".

At other times he can look horrible but he is a rookie. He is worthwhile investing time in.

by chgobr on Feb 15, 2008 11:14 AM CST up 0 recs

If you're

crazy then I am too. I think he will work hard this summer.

Never went to church camp but I did go to Girl Scout camp. If you ever need help making a campfire I'm your girl. :P

by sue369 on Feb 15, 2008 11:31 AM CST up 0 recs

I agree

I think he's already a useful player depending on the matchups this year, but I do like his offensive skills and think he's a smart enough player to learn things to hide his deficiencies and improve int he inside scoring he does best.

He at least has the idea of playing D and getting boards, he's just slow and hasn't learned how to do these things int he NBA level. He might never learn to be great at them, but could learn to at least improve subtlely in those areas while greatly improving his natural O game.

I like the pickup for his with Gray, and think he could develop into a valuable bench player for us in the future.

by majoyenrac on Feb 15, 2008 11:34 AM CST up 0 recs

Is Marcus Banks this bad?

He was awful last night. He had two fouls that were just total boneheaded moves. He almost turned it over twice without any Bull doing anything more than simply manning up at 3 pt stripe. I don't know why Riley didn't go back to Jason Williams when the Heat could have won the game.

by NBA Observer on Feb 15, 2008 8:18 AM CST up 0 recs

moral of the night

when Wallace and Griffin don't play, there's minutes to go around for everyone who deserves them.

by JSlakov on Feb 15, 2008 1:31 AM CST 0 recs

Thomas and Thabo

pleased the hell out of me. And I think that's what Tyrus needs: a longer rope. Coaches need to let him stay on the floor. Sure, he'll make mistakes. But I believe if given the minutes, he'll have way more positives than negatives.

And if Wallace played that game, I think we'd be chalking up another 'L'.

by ForWhomTheBullTolls on Feb 15, 2008 3:38 AM CST 0 recs

Thomas

I still don't see what why everyone praises him so much. He is full of potential but in my opinion, other than marginally improving his jump shot, he hasn't shown enough improvement that he is in a position to start. It's hard to want to start him when he misses all these rotations, gets blocked so many times and commits turnoversgoaltends etc... He scores at least 4-5 points per game for the other team on illegal defenses/goal tends etc...

I really wanted him to start and show that he has matured a bit but he just doesn't seem to understand certain things. I don't even care about the not running up the court always. It's more like he it feels he is still playing college b-ball in LSU instead of playing NBA level basketball. I hope everyone is right in that he will improve once he gets more playing time. Don;t tell me its like sefolosha cause I think that was purely confidence and Tyrus has never seemed to lack confidence.

by Sambossanova on Feb 15, 2008 4:15 AM CST up 0 recs

I'd rather have...

TT's "immaturity" in the game rather than Wallace's.

by Lt.Dan on Feb 15, 2008 5:52 AM CST up 0 recs

I think most want him in

for what he brings to the table in the end (which is the potential to make the team much better when he's on the floor), rather than lamenting about the mistakes he makes.

The Game chose him !

by Diabolo on Feb 15, 2008 7:54 AM CST up 0 recs

its hard to learn from your mistakes

on the bench. And I'll take an inmatture Tyrus vs. and aging Joe Smith or Ben Wallace

I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Feb 15, 2008 8:08 AM CST up 0 recs

Seriously, though...

...players don't sit on the bench for half a year and come in magically prepared. Get over the growing pains. Players get better with playing time.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 15, 2008 8:12 AM CST up 0 recs

I used to feel the same way about TT

But I'm sick and tired of watching the Corpse blow dunks and free throws, and not go after rebounds. At this point, I'm ready to watch Tyrus learn on the job. I still want him to run more with his skill and ability; he seems like the type of guy that would feed off of transition baskets to inspire his whole game.

Hopefully, he will get better and more aggressive with confidence. It has certainly been beneficial for Thabo!

"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy

by mdmnd9294 on Feb 15, 2008 9:58 AM CST up 0 recs

Did anyone else like this lineup?

Smith
Thomas
Noc
Thabo
Hinrich

If we can get Deng back and find a way to keep Wallace off the floor we could have a solid 8 man rotation of Noah, Smith, Thomas, Noc, Deng, Thabo, Hinrich, and Gordon.

What about Fratello as our coach? I wish NBATV or TNT would have a film session show like the NFL Network does.

by NBA Observer on Feb 15, 2008 8:20 AM CST 0 recs

Fratello is back in the booth for a good reason

and it's not his mad telestrator skillz. The guy had the 05-06 Grizz pace at 86.3 possessions per game. Aesthetics aside, his slow offense has been ranked middle of the league in efficiency at best.

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Feb 15, 2008 8:31 AM CST up 0 recs

Improvement!!!

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 15, 2008 8:40 AM CST up 0 recs

heh

His early 90s Cavs had real good offenses. I didn't think to check that far back. Still kinda irrelevant; 94.8 possessions per game was good for 21st in the league.

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Feb 15, 2008 9:09 AM CST up 0 recs

Baby steps, Ryan. Baby steps.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 15, 2008 9:27 AM CST up 0 recs

That'd be the ideal lineup with this team.

Although, I'd rather start Noah and Gordon. The other teams would be so out-energized, their heads would be spinning. Plus, they could "park" Noah and Thomas under the boards and let Hinrich, Gordon and Deng chuck away. If Gordon's not scoring then there are two "instant offense" weapons on the bench. I'd even take Ben Wallace as the 9th guy!

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 15, 2008 8:44 AM CST up 0 recs

Oh...

..there'd also be plenty of defense out there to make up for Gordon's deficiencies.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 15, 2008 8:45 AM CST up 0 recs

Keep Wallace in the rotation

But not the starting line-up. He could be extremely effective playing 15-20 hard minutes instead of what he does now. If he's not professional about it, play him even less. You know that whole "accountability culture"...

"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy

by mdmnd9294 on Feb 15, 2008 10:02 AM CST up 0 recs

why would he complain about the bench

He still gets paid. He'll still contribute. If he wants a trade he can request it and play up his stock.

Hell freezes over before Boylan rolls out the coffin with a HALO cover.

by NBA Observer on Feb 15, 2008 10:12 AM CST up 0 recs

if that ever does happen

it definitely won't be until after the trade deadline.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 15, 2008 10:12 AM CST up 0 recs

True

It's wishful thinking to think that it will happen at all this season. I'm a convert to the church of "Win with the kids".

"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy

by mdmnd9294 on Feb 15, 2008 1:38 PM CST up 0 recs

if it does happen

at least Wallace would earn his wish of getting to play alongside Aaron Gray :)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 15, 2008 2:22 PM CST up 0 recs

That was a fun game to watch...

....TT was aggressive and Thabo looked good. Though we really need Deng back (I have soured a little bit on Ben G, we can do without his turnovers and poor defense)

by bullsfaninbigapple on Feb 15, 2008 8:29 AM CST 0 recs

See I was there live

And I don't know the fans by me never really got into the game at all. While the score was close, it seemed like the Bulls had the game from the get go.

The Heat likely will be tougher when Marion is more incorporated and Haslem is back, but man right now it was like 10 guys vs 2 all night long.....

by majoyenrac on Feb 15, 2008 8:42 AM CST up 0 recs

Comments of Boylan on Thomas :

"Boylan once again emphasized he'd like to see the second-year forward focus on doing his damage near the basket."

This in line with what Matt and others would like, too. Now if he could put him more often in position to do that (that is play him at the PF spot) !

Link : http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=135509

The Game chose him !

by Diabolo on Feb 15, 2008 9:03 AM CST 0 recs

Re: Comments of Boylan on Thomas :

Couldn't agree more...my jaw hit the floor when I read that quote

Does Boylan realize how dumb he sounds admitting that Thomas is most effective around the basket, yet he still plays him at the SF spot in his normal "rotation"?

I can't believe the Pacers actually interviewed this guy in the offseason.

by FPax on Feb 15, 2008 2:52 PM CST up 0 recs

I love the name calling

obviously the bulls coaching staff repeatedly tells TT to get closer to the basket, and there are definitely opportunities for him to do so within the confines of the offense.

Goodbye Viktor, and Godspeed.

by bullshooter on Feb 15, 2008 7:19 PM CST up 0 recs

even at the SF position.

Goodbye Viktor, and Godspeed.

by bullshooter on Feb 15, 2008 7:19 PM CST up 0 recs

not funny, Boylan

"Maybe I'll keep him coming off the bench the rest of the season," Boylan cracked.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-080214-chicago-bulls-miami-heat,1 ,5598271.story

(I heard the audio of this comment and Boylan did say "just kidding")

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 15, 2008 9:25 AM CST 0 recs

More to add . .

Here

"Kirk coming off the bench was fantastic," Boylan said. "Maybe I'll keep him coming off the bench for the rest of the season. ... Just kidding. Don't everyone get all crazy on me now. Take it easy."

There's a reason everyone was about to get crazy on you Boylan.

Cause that kinda talk wouldn't surprise us anymore!

by Option27 on Feb 15, 2008 10:32 AM CST up 0 recs

Boylan's in-game comment

On TNT, Boylan was interviewed during the game (in the 3rd Q I think) and said something like this in response to a question about making Kirk "earn" his starting spot back: "clearly Kirk is a starter in this league. But coming off an injury, bringing him off the bench allows me to keep better control over his minutes."

It was something like that. The impression it left was that Boylan was just trying to bring him along slowly and was not really creating an open competition for the starting gig.

Noah is a hussle machine, and Matt Duhon is our best guard.

by preverbal on Feb 15, 2008 1:31 PM CST up 0 recs

only Ben Wallace can control minutes.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 15, 2008 2:15 PM CST up 0 recs

via truehoop

Tyson is really comfortable with the coaching staff. In Chicago, his relationship with Scott Skiles was non-existent, and Tyson got a little timid. Byron [Scott] actually had to threaten to fine Tyson money to get him to try to score some more.

When he first came here, if he got an offensive rebound, he always wanted to pass it out. Byron told him to dunk, or go up hard to try and score. It was programmed into him not to make a move, not to score. It happened in a game once, and Byron jumped up and subbed for him, and told him that if he is under the hoop with the ball, he needs to dunk, no matter what happened in Chicago. "You better start trying to score this ball," he said. And his confidence started growing to the point that now he's a nice double double guy.

I've noticed Wallace dunking more recently, you think he was told to always pass the ball out?

Goodbye Viktor, and Godspeed.

by bullshooter on Feb 15, 2008 11:18 AM CST 0 recs

I dont think ive seen wallace pass the ball

out...no...ive seen him try to do a finger roll, or over and under move, or something that he just cant do. I think the reason he didnt dunk was because...age? Injuries? Lack of effort?....he now started doing a jump hook (thank you aaron gray) and i actually like it thus far, maybe he shouldve practiced that more than his layups.

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Feb 15, 2008 5:50 PM CST up 0 recs