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Gasol traded to the Lakers

Blogabull_s_tiny by your friendly BullsBlogger on Comment 287 comments

Salary dump (hattip to RealGM):

The Commercial Appeal has learned that the Grizzlies have traded Pau Gasol to the Los Angeles Lakers for center Kwame Brown, rookie guard Javaris Crittenton and first-round draft picks in 2008 and 2010.The decision was made that the Grizzlies could no longer move forward with Gasol on and off the basketball court.

The deal allows the Grizzlies to gain salary cap relief, as Brown is in the final year of a deal that pays $9,075,000.

Also today, a Grizzlies source said that forward Stromile Swift has been traded to the New Jersey Nets for center Jason Collins.

Wow, how far had the trade value fallen from a year ago, when Jerry West was (reportedly) asking for Deng, Gordon, and Sefolosha? (or some combination of that with picks, or something)

This either went two ways: Memphis may have liked Nocioni but not his contract. Or they didn't mind the contract and Pax (as it has been reported multiple times) for some reason ruled him off limits.

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Gasol to Lakers
John Paxson has some explaining to do.  If he couldn't get a deal done because he didn't want to lose Nocioni, than he should be fired, because he has no perspective on what this team needs and no eye for talent.   Its time for Paxson to make a move.

by danger mouse on Feb 1, 2008 2:18 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I too want answers
from the tight-lipped GM who stands pat while his ship sinks deeper.

Why didn't he pull the trigger, at least give us a reason! It's getting harder and harder to stay a Bulls fan these days. Reminiscing about the Glory-Michael Jordan Days are wearing thin.

by RogersPark Kris on Feb 1, 2008 2:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I doubt we'll ever know
if it's because the Griz didn't want Nocioni (and I thought his contract was so reasonable!) then what can you do? I guess it is sort of damning that Pax never has these juicy expiring deals for anything except to expire.

But if it's because they wouldn't deal Noc, then it's pretty sickening.

I don't think it'd be because they wouldn't give up Tyrus or Noah, as if the Griz were settling for Critterton as the 'prospect' in the deal they weren't setting the bar too high.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 1, 2008 2:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Disagree
"if it's because the Griz didn't want Nocioni (and I thought his contract was so reasonable!) then what can you do? I guess it is sort of damning that Pax never has these juicy expiring deals for anything except to expire."

There's a lot you can do.

As Pax has been fond of saying, there's always talk going on even if it doesn't amount to much.  So it's very likely he had some sense of where Memphis would want to go if it traded Gasol.  Not saying Pax should have made a trade in anticipation of what they want, but if you know maybe you can have a contingency lined up.  Such as

... it seem likely to me the Bulls could have turned Noc or Smith into expiring contracts (think we couldn't have sent him on down to Miami) if they really wanted to, and then sent them on to Memphis.  Beyond that, there are other alternatives, like taking on Cardinal, who, while expensive, still probably wouldn't kill us tax-wise.

So I tend to think it's a cop-out to say "what could he do".  There were might have been a lot of things that could have been done with sufficient  creativity.

Or, stepping back in time, hey, maybe signing Noc to a 6 year $38M deal wasn't all that smart.  It's easy to say "there's nothing we can do now because of the circumstances", but ultimately they're responsible for the circumstances.

by Sports2 on Feb 1, 2008 3:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Effigy of Paxson
Anyone know how to get an effigy made?

I echo all of the expressions of frustration of all on this blog.

PAX:  do the honorable thing and deliver a letter of resignation to the good chairman's office.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Feb 1, 2008 4:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

An effigy is simply a likeness.
I'd caution that you consider where you're going with this because the standard expression containing the word "effigy" is not one that would comfortably find a home on this site.

by alec on Feb 1, 2008 4:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

BZZZ! Wrong.
There's nothing wrong with burning someone in effigy. It just means you've made a likeness of the person and have set fire to it.

"The effigy is burned as a sign of the participants' shared intent to banish the represented element from their lives."

Yes, this applies in this case.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Feb 1, 2008 5:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

from Webster's Unabridged:
"To burn or hang in effigy, is to burn or hang an image or picture of the person intended to be executed, disgraced or degraded. In France,when a criminal cannot be apprehended, his picture is hung on a gallows or gibbet, at the bottom of which is written his sentence of condemnation."

Yes, to "burn in effigy" is one standard use of the word.

I guess I should have said, "one of the standard."

by alec on Feb 1, 2008 5:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

im guessing
nocioni, noah or tyrus, and salary filler wouldve been enough to get gasol.  id have to think its pax that killed this deal; wouldnt noah or tyrus be a better long term prospect for memphis than javaris crittendon?  they now essentially have 3 young pg's (crittendon, conley, and lowry) and a gaping hole in the front court, unless memphis has some irrational belief that warrick and darko is their frontcourt of the future.  it seems every day something happens with this bulls team that makes me sicker and sicker.

by Mike C on Feb 1, 2008 2:18 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Kill Paxson now
He coulda offered a better deal than that!

Fuck him!

by Option27 on Feb 1, 2008 2:18 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

That's pretty
harsh.
Yes, the game is on in Iowa.

by sue369 on Feb 1, 2008 2:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow
Harsh for knowing next to nothing about what really went down.

by cranscape on Feb 1, 2008 4:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

AH!
I saw that we posted at the same time. Yours is prettier anyway. I don't understand how the Bulls couldn't have pull this deal off.
2008 - The Year of The Comeback

by Goostafer on Feb 1, 2008 2:18 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Memphis really wanted Brown's
9 million off the books.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Feb 1, 2008 2:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I get that
9 mil off the books and 2 first rounders are great, but with all the youth the Bulls have, PJ Brown who allegedly was willing to help them out if a trade was to happen, in my opinion, could have made a way better deal than just Kwame, Javaris, and 2picks. I'm really upset right now. I don't understand Pax's thinking and i don't think I ever will.
2008 - The Year of The Comeback

by Goostafer on Feb 1, 2008 2:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not only that, but
The 2 first round picks the Lakers would have in whatever, 2008 and 2010 are going to be in the high 20's if not the lowest picks in those two first rounds.

The Bulls, on the other hand, could end up landing a lottery pick with their sophomoric hijinks on the court and their injuries off of it.

All of this makes me think that Pax doubled down on his guys for the season, essentially saying, "If we don't make the playoffs I'll take a high draft pick rather than Pau Gasol."

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Feb 1, 2008 4:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

agree
I'm sure we had someone of the roster expendable for this deal who has upside almost equal to Javaris Crittenton?  If he was the key?
Thabo?
Tyrus?
Noc? to expensive maybe?

by exult463 on Feb 1, 2008 8:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, apologies to you and option27
for hiding your diaries. I was already in the middle of writing this one.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 1, 2008 2:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

same here
this is the low point of the season.  the absolute nadir.  a dispiriting lose to the worst team in the league, in which the head coach admits the team quit.  followed by losing out on a player who could have helped turn it around, and who was very, very available.  

rock bottom.  kerplunk.

by Freethefro on Feb 1, 2008 2:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

this is insane
he went to the Lakers for practically nothing...and Paxson couldn't pull off something similar?!?  WTF

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 1, 2008 2:20 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

ugh
Kupchak was only in a position to make the trade because he traded Butler for Brown in the first place.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Feb 1, 2008 2:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

In six months he's gone
from being on the verge of gettin run out of town to probable exec of the year.  You've got to admit it's a nice save.

by alec on Feb 1, 2008 2:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't forget about Ainge?
If Kupchak was on the hot seat, Ainge's ass was molten lava before he got Allen and McHale gave him Garnett.

by snley on Feb 1, 2008 2:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Lakers Celtics
in the finals.  

Winner gets Exec of the Year.

by alec on Feb 1, 2008 2:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Whoa, I wouldn't exactly
annoint the Lakers champions of the west just yet.

I sincerely doubt they make it to the Finals.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 1, 2008 2:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

he's made some shitty moves, but deserves credit
not only for this, but for NOT caving into Thorn and dealing Bymum in a Kidd deal last season.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 1, 2008 2:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Quit crying about Pax, he is a good GM
You're such a whiny bitch, Pax has made some good draft picks. Bynum could have easily been a bust and you would have complained the whole summer of 05 if pax took him.

by armstrong2389 on Feb 1, 2008 3:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

who cares who complains?
it's results. Kupchak looks good for picking Bynum, I was defending his honor. Never said Paxson wasn't good.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 1, 2008 3:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

hmmm
here you say that Paxson has made some good draft picks...but up above you bag on Hinrich (I believe you called him "Hinbrick" and a "stiffy")...so which of your opinions do you believe?

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 1, 2008 3:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

As bad as that trade has turned out to be
It was a reasonable gamble at the time.  Plus, I can't think of any other terrible moves made by Kupchak in his time as GM.  The package he got for Shaq was pretty good compared to many of the spare parts that are included in deals to acquire superstars.  He's drafted fairly well.  Ainge will win Exec of the Year, but I think Kupchak has done the far superior job.  

by snley on Feb 1, 2008 2:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So true.
Bad move into good move.

Wallace raises his hand!

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 1, 2008 4:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i can't wait to here
the lame explanations for this.  we didn't have the salaries.  we didn't want to give up too much.  we "just couldn't make it work."

kerplunk.

by Freethefro on Feb 1, 2008 2:24 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Paxson
How is Paxson going to spin this...

by Jesse07 on Feb 1, 2008 2:25 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Couldn't PJ Brown have been used?
Isn't that why he's supposedly not playing yet this season, is he's waiting for the Bulls to use their sign and trade rights to give him one last, big contract.  

by snley on Feb 1, 2008 2:25 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I guess I understand some of the
consternation evinced by certain posters, by I am not all that dismayed, to tell you the truth .

I don't think Pau Gasol was the answer to all our woes.

He'll be a nice third option in LA.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 1, 2008 2:25 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

19 pts 9 rebounds, 50%
from the floor.  after a poor start.  that third option would be our first.  

by Freethefro on Feb 1, 2008 2:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

"that third option would be our first"
That's precisely my point.

I don't think he could have carried the Bulls to the promised land. He is a great compliment to the existing LA squad, but I have no reason to believe he would have single-handedly elevated the Bulls to title contender.

He played poorly this season. After all, salary cap relief aside, there was a reason that the Memphis management was willing to part with him for so little.

JMO.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 1, 2008 2:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

By the way, I also think it is premature to
condemn Paxosn. We don't know what demands the Griz actually made. We don't know what offers Paxson entertained.

I'll reserve judgment until verifiable details emerge.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 1, 2008 2:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's not the point
Nobody is good enough to turn this Bulls team into a title contender (except guys like Kobe and Lebron, who aren't being traded).  If that's your standard, than of course Gasol is going to fall short.  I bet he'd make them a better team though.  It would be nice to see what the "core" could do with an actual low-post scorer.

by Big D on Feb 1, 2008 2:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm starting to agree
for the longest time I thought there was one move, and if Pau wasn't it then fine.

However, this team looks several moves away, and getting Pau would be fine as the first one. Especially if it was for cheap.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 1, 2008 3:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You need to watch the bulls not type when theyplay
You are just a complete dope Matt. There is a reason Gasol has never won a playoff game he is soft. I don't think Pax wants a soft post player who makes as much money as him. Do you watch the bulls body, because it seems like you don't know a dam thing about this team. You just complain and you were one of those people who gave up on chandler and danced when we signed wallace. You are a complete stupid fan, maybe you should watch the bulls games without your computer on your lap all the time. You are just a complete baby you should watch the bulls more when they play instead of bitching on your computer the entire time.

by armstrong2389 on Feb 1, 2008 3:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I see your point
You clearly haven't put in the time to master typing yet.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 1, 2008 3:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dude
I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not but Matt is the host here. I don't always agree with him but calling him names when he lets you post comments in here is uncalled for.
Yes, the game is on in Iowa.

by sue369 on Feb 1, 2008 3:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Get
off his balls already.

by chris44 on Feb 1, 2008 3:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Shit
you swear your something special. Little nut having mug.

by chris44 on Feb 1, 2008 3:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Chris...
You're very, very... yawn.

by withmalice on Feb 1, 2008 7:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think Pau is the answer either
Plus, he only seems to play well in a half court game and the Bulls are better when they push the ball.

It's interesting the Lakers gave up two first round draft picks for him, and that may have been the deal breaker.  He's not worth that.  

I do love how this wasn't one of the many rumored trade deals, which just goes to show that those rumor trade deals are mostly rumors.

by KT on Feb 1, 2008 2:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He wouldn't be worth
two Bulls first rounders, but the Lakers will be at the bottom of the draft for the next few years, so I don't know why those picks would be so attractive to Memphis.

by alec on Feb 1, 2008 2:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

late round picks
is where a lot of teams pick foreign players they don't expect to see in the US for a couple of years.  

Plus, they're highly tradable themselves.

by KT on Feb 1, 2008 2:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Even bullshooter
couldn't convincingly argue that point.

by alec on Feb 1, 2008 2:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think that's a compliment
at least I hope so.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Feb 1, 2008 3:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

They kind of have to.
For the past ten years (if not more) it's the only way to get someone who can be above the normal talent drafted there.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 1, 2008 4:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Apologist
Stuff KT...

by withmalice on Feb 1, 2008 7:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree.
This is good news to me.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 1, 2008 4:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree....
...I don't think Gasol was the magic solution here. Hopefully Pax can pull off something bigger.

by bullsfaninbigapple on Feb 1, 2008 8:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe Pax has been reading BaB
and believes everything you've written about TT and Noah and Deng and BG and is going to resign them.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Feb 1, 2008 2:26 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

i doubt pax killed the deal
at the end of the day, it is up to memphis.  i know i am about to get slammed, go easy on me

by Conor on Feb 1, 2008 2:27 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

The thing is
no one in here knows what Pax did or didn't do. He may have another deal in the works. Just because it isn't in the rumor mill doesn't mean there isn't a deal going on.
Yes, the game is on in Iowa.

by sue369 on Feb 1, 2008 2:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

There may not
be a deal brewing at all. Pax may wait until this summer to do something.
Yes, the game is on in Iowa.

by sue369 on Feb 1, 2008 2:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's what people said last year at this time
I think it's time to stop giving him the benefit of the doubt.

by Big D on Feb 1, 2008 2:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
Yeah.  I think we've given Pax the benefit of the doubt a number of times, but after it seems team after team is getting guys for bargain basement prices while we're holding on to young guys that we refuse to even play...if nothing else it's time for him to give us some answers.  Like, what was Memphis asking for from us.

by balta1701 on Feb 1, 2008 4:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Another deal
I hope he has another deal working, and he actually pulls the trigger.  I do appreciate the fact that this happened early than late, so Paxson didn't wait and this C.Wallace was going to cave last second.  

by Jesse07 on Feb 1, 2008 2:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

judging by paxsons
illustrious track record of midseason deals, im guessing nothing is in the works.

by Mike C on Feb 1, 2008 2:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He should say something
But the more he stays quiet, the more afraid he looks to either A. Upset his players, or B. that the deal that was there and would be scrutinized/scond guessed by the media/general public for not pulling the trigger.

Well guess what Pax? For all your playing it safe, you look like a GM who drafts OK, but is WAY OVER HIS HEAD when it comes to pulling trades.

by RogersPark Kris on Feb 1, 2008 2:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

True, but
the coveted "low post presence" is such an anomaly in the NBA these days that the ones that are out there are either perennial All-Stars (KG, Duncan), former All-Stars (Gasol) or soon-to-be All-Stars (Al Jefferson, Andrew Bynum) (I guess a fourth category exists for underachievers with All-Star talent--Eddy Curry).

So to see the Griz get maybe 45 cents on the dollar for one of these bona fide low post presences, it is only natural to ask what the hell Paxson was doing when this went down.

Couldn't the Bulls have paid 45 cents on the dollar or more? If there were no deals presented to Pax, why didn't he push harder for one? Why wasn't he more creative? Why couldn't he use PJ Brown?

Surely the Bulls' higher 2008 draft pick would have been worth more than the Lakers' 2008 draft pick. Surely Pax could have found a way to part with any one of a number of underachieving parts.

As you point out, we don't know, but these are all legitimate questions, and I believe that Bulls fans need an explanation.

The only way I could forgive Pax is if the Griz offered what amounts to a sweetheart deal to the Lakers, the way the Wolves set up the Celtics. In other words, maybe the Griz really wanted too much from Pax, let's say closer to 65 of 75 cents on the dollar, and broke off negotiations, only to take the next best deal, which happened to be for 45 cents on the dollar. I guess I'm agreeing with you when I say, who really knows...

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Feb 1, 2008 4:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Expiring contracts are nice
That was supposed to be the point of trading for PJ Brown.  Too bad someone forgot to tell Pax that.  Hope everyone enjoyed the one year of PJ Brown, because he was the Bulls best trading chip, and they blew it last year.

by Big D on Feb 1, 2008 2:29 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Deng and Gordon
All year all I heard was that Memphis wanted too much, Deng and Gordon, Deng and Gordon.  Well it looks like they just wanted some prosects and some relief.  We could have traded Thomas/Noah/Nocioni, our pick and some cap relief and had the Worlds Laziest Rich Man, Gasol, Deng, Sefolosha, Hinrich with Gordon and 2 of these 3 (Thomas/Noah/Noce) coming off the bench.  

But no, Paxson has no forethought, no ability to be creative and make a deal work.  The Lakers gave up 2 marginal prospects and 2 draft picks that will like be in the high 20s.  The Bulls could have given up 1 good prospect (Tyrus/Noah), 1 decent player (Noce) and our draft pick, likely somewhere from 10 - 15 and completely trumped the Lakers offer.  

I'm done defending Paxson unless we get something concrete before the trade deadline.  No more waiting until next year - I've been waiting 10 friggin years.

by danger mouse on Feb 1, 2008 2:30 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

How is their lineup looking now?
Fisher
Bryant
Odom
Gasol
Bynum(once healthy)

That's one mean-looking lineup

"Glen Davis??? wow!! We had Glen Davis, his name is Michael Sweetney" - tyrus4prez

by NittanyBull on Feb 1, 2008 2:30 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

dont forget
arguably the best bench in the league.  good for phil...lucky bastard

by Conor on Feb 1, 2008 2:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't forget to add Phil's
value into that arsenal.  I can't see how they wouldn't be the odds on favorite after this.  

by alec on Feb 1, 2008 2:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If Bynum comes back
healthy this year, I think the Lakers have to be the  favorites to WIN THE TITLE.

They have the best all around player in the league (Kobe), a solid, versatile 3 who can handle the ball like a pg but rebound like a PF (Odom), a solid, smart PG (FISHER) one of the top young big guys in the league who might have been an all star had he not been hurt (Bynum), the most underrated big in the league (Gasol) and one of the deepest benches and best coaches.

THis team is far more talent stacked than Boston, SA, Dallas, Phx and Detroit.

It's over.

I AM BEYOND FRUSTRATED THAT AGAIN THE BULLS DID NOTHING!  Our team is in shambles, our future's a mess and our coach has no control over the team and is best a college coach (though i don't think he has college experience as a head coach).

I'm struggling to stay a Bulls fan especially given how excited about them I was this year, and then this trade finally happens without us.

PAX should speak before the weekend is up.

by majoyenrac on Feb 1, 2008 5:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Paxson
sucks! Lakers got him for nothing. We could have used him to if we were giving up nothing.

by chris44 on Feb 1, 2008 2:37 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Gasol Not The Answer
I'm not sure that Gasol is that interior presence that would have taken us to the next level - he is lead footed and floats out to the perimeter quite a bit.

That said, I have a hard time believing that 9 million in cap relief and a third young point guard was the best Chris Wallace could do in Memphis.

BTW - did anyone see Lamarcus Aldridge refuse to rotate over to stop Lebron's game winning drive to the hoop on Wednesday?  I'm not convinced that Pax won't ultimately be vindicated on Aldridge's lack of toughness.  In coming years, he'll have Oden available to do the dirty work down low for him.

by Gene Banks on Feb 1, 2008 2:38 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
But good God, I just want something done to wake these guys up...
http://slickyricky76.blogspot.com/

by SlickRick76 on Feb 1, 2008 2:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Never watched Gasol
Huh Gene?
Actually, for a 7-footer, he's rather fleet of foot.

But you're right on the money when you express surprise over 'this is the best Memphis could do'?...

by withmalice on Feb 1, 2008 7:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

wrong
Many people equate "white" with being "lead footed", and will not be shaken from this belief no matter how many Steve Nashes blaze through the league. Gasol, is not slow, in fact he is one of the fastest 7 footers in the league. He's also one of the (very) few players capable of averaging 20 pts and 10 rebounds (Career 18.8/8.6). He is an all-star quality player who plays in the low post or the high post. He has a career average of 1.8 blocks per game. Last season he hit 81% of his free throws. Oh, and he likes to be coached; he was one of the players who supported Hubie Brown when he was run out of Memphis by a whiny locker room. Did you see him in the World Championships? He wants to win and has a winner's mentality.

Do you seriously believe that the Bulls shouldn't have given up a prospect a few draft picks and essentially money to get this player?

Soft, my ass. Who's hard? Wallace? Pffft.

by sic on Feb 2, 2008 9:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If this was fantasy football...
Both GM would be tossed out of the league (Kevin & Danny would have already been beat to death.)  How is this a fair trade.  Another young point gaurd for Memphis, a two late first round picks.    DO NOT TELL ME KWAME IS MORE THAN A TRADE FILLER!!!!

This is horrible there is absolutely now way the Bulls couldn't put together a more attractive package.  PAXSON OVERVALUES HIS PLAYERS!!!

by Jesse07 on Feb 1, 2008 2:39 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Has the league approved?
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 1, 2008 2:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Approval
If the KG trade wasn't overruled, this crap won't either.  :(

by Jesse07 on Feb 1, 2008 2:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe that's what's holding up Paxson
Wallace and Griffin keep voting and vetoing his trade proposals.

by snley on Feb 1, 2008 2:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL!

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 1, 2008 2:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL also :)
"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Feb 1, 2008 4:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

BWAHAHA!!!
Now THAT'S funny!!
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Feb 1, 2008 4:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i imagine a possible killer
to the deal for the bulls was probably noah.  i bet that is who memphis wanted the most, and you know pax doesnt want to let him go yet.  and i dont blame him... yeah gasol is extremely skilled, but memphis is trying their damnest to get rid of him.  that has to be a red flag.  just remember pau gasol is spanish for eddy curry

by Conor on Feb 1, 2008 2:42 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I share your suspicion.
I think that they wanted Noc and Noah.
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 1, 2008 2:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i dont see memphis
wanting to get rid of gasol as a red flag.  lets remember, they are being run by chris wallace.  and they just traded their best player for a 3rd young point guard and cap relief.  

by Mike C on Feb 1, 2008 2:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Kind of agree
I agree it would be tough to give up on Noah, lord knows that the Bulls need players with a winner's mentality on the roster. However, Memphis was trying to trade Gasol purely as a way to cut payroll and make their franchise more attractive to be bought. Kwane Brown will be gone next year along with his contract. That's was the point of the trade from Memphis' perspective. Apparently, their ownership has given up on trying to be competitive and just wants to sell. You can try to put that on Gasol, but his career statistics prove that he is not the reason why Memphis has never been more successful than a first round playoff team.

by sic on Feb 2, 2008 9:30 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Mateen Cleaves can solve all of the Bulls problems
"Glen Davis??? wow!! We had Glen Davis, his name is Michael Sweetney" - tyrus4prez

by NittanyBull on Feb 1, 2008 2:42 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

ahem...
you mean khalid el-amin

by leeac on Feb 1, 2008 9:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and remember
this deal beefs up the lakers so much that a lot of teams need more interior d to beat them, ie phoenix, which could open up a realistic possibility of getting rid of wallace.

by Conor on Feb 1, 2008 2:44 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

WTF!!!!!!!!
A year of talk of Gasol to the Bulls and he gets traded for this!? This!? I love John Paxson but now he's royally screwed this team, Letting Garnet go for nothing and now Gasol, WTF!!!!! I can't express my anger over this

by bullsfaninla on Feb 1, 2008 2:44 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Excuse me?
Letting Garnett go for "nothing"? The biggest one-player trade in the history of the NBA? Al Jefferson, and two first-round picks of the '09 Draft is "nothing"?

Jeeze. I'm usually quiet here nowadays, but some of you guys need to do some research before putting up these asinine posts.

"Glen Davis??? wow!! We had Glen Davis, his name is Michael Sweetney" - tyrus4prez

by NittanyBull on Feb 1, 2008 2:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes nothing
compared to what we could have given them. Jefferson may have more talent than any player we have but we have a hell of a lot more players. Besides Jefferson who'd they get ryan gomes and gun happy sebastian telfair? yay.  And I'm just those drafts picks are gonna be the top 5- oh wait the celtics are awesome, will be awesome for at least another 4 years and those picks will be the late 20s.

by bullsfaninla on Feb 1, 2008 2:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sigh, no.
One of those picks is from Boston(yes, you got that one right), the other is from Minnesota, which they got back from Boston from the Ricky Davis- Wally Szczerbiak trade a while back. So yes, Minnesota will still suck for a high draft pick in 2009, which makes THAT pick a very big one now.

Once again,

Jeeze. I'm usually quiet here nowadays, but some of you guys need to do some research before putting up these asinine posts.
"Glen Davis??? wow!! We had Glen Davis, his name is Michael Sweetney" - tyrus4prez

by NittanyBull on Feb 1, 2008 2:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So Jefferson and a high pick
which given how the lottery went this year clearly doesnt meant much. I think that compared to any combination of

Deng, Gordon, Hinrich, Nocioni, Noah, Tyrus, Thabo and future 1st rounders is still a bad deal. Christ Tyrus is essentialy the number 2 pick of the 06 draft, what more do you want

by bullsfaninla on Feb 1, 2008 5:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and while now are players
arent worth a crap, we had just been coming off a sweep of the defending champs and 6 games with the pistons, deng was an "all star" ha!

by bullsfaninla on Feb 1, 2008 5:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

God you're dumb
and please learn how to type
"Glen Davis??? wow!! We had Glen Davis, his name is Michael Sweetney" - tyrus4prez

by NittanyBull on Feb 1, 2008 6:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

PJ Brown's sign and trade!!!
Worth more than Kwame's expiring contract. What the hell  Paxson. I am beyond furious

by bullsfaninla on Feb 1, 2008 2:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hate to say it
Paxson needs to go.  He sucks shit as a GM.  He is so scared to make a trade that it is disgusting.  The Lakers will now be really solid, so the draft picks will not be that great, so Memphis made the trade for little more than cap relief.  The Bulls have much better assets to make this deal, so I don't get what happened.  I am waiting with baited breath to hear Pax's explanation for this one.

For the record, I was never convinced that deals for KG or Kobe were ever in Pax's control.  This one was and he BLEW IT BIG TIME.

Look for my season tickets on eBay.  F*uck this team.

by Stay Chisel on Feb 1, 2008 2:44 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Paxson's used to trading with Isiah Thomas
He needs to realize that not all GM's are as dumb as Isiah, and sometimes you need to give up talent to get a good player.  Why he thinks anyone on this Bulls team is too valuable to trade is beyond me.  I'd hate to give up Noah, but is he ever going to be a 20-10 guy like Gasol?

by Big D on Feb 1, 2008 2:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Optimism
I think he actually might. With just sparse playing time he seems to get double doubles. I think he has that "jordan-esque winning drive" thingy that all superstars have. He has the physical, he has the mental, he lacks experience and a certain ammount of skill, but both those things can be obtained through hard work....
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Feb 1, 2008 3:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You're going to sell your season tickets
because we didn't...get...Pau...Gasol?

If this were Kobe or LeBron or Howard or Wade, I would agree. But it's just ole' Pau.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 1, 2008 2:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

no
It's not Pau Gasol.  It's the apathetic play of the team, its replacing Skiles with a lousy coach with worse rotations, and its the GM's inability to do anything to try to right the ship.  I spend a ton of money on tickets every year.  I actually feel insulted that this is what I paid for.  If nobody on the Bulls side of things cares to make an effort, why should I care about this team?  As I said before, I can tolerate losing (and even losing seasons).  It's the total lack of effort from the GM to the players that has me sick.

by Stay Chisel on Feb 1, 2008 3:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Man did
the Lakers rob the Griz? Pax couldnt offer something better? They traded Gasol for 10 cents on the dollar! This is another sad day to be a Bulls fan.

I dont think Gasol wouldve saved us but man he wouldve helped.

by Bulls4Ever on Feb 1, 2008 2:44 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

A sample deal
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2377~2435~3224~788~996~591&teams=29~29 ~29~7~4~29&te=&cash=

You could easily replace Noah with Tryus, Ben Gordon, or even Thabo.  Everytime it works and gives Memphis what they want, plus a better prospect than crittenton.  I guess after losing stoudamire, memphis realized they needed to shore up the #3 pg spot in the rotation.

by cjurmann on Feb 1, 2008 2:46 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah but
Memphis was only really interested in getting rid of salary to make it easier to sell the franchise. So a trade involving talent for talent was probably not as attractive to them as one for a stiff (Brown) whose massive contract goes off the books next season.

by sic on Feb 2, 2008 9:38 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The Lakers
seriously robbed the Grizzlies!

Does West still work for them and figured this is the best thing he could do for his former team?!

I'm in such state of shock.

They pretty much just got Jarvis outta this deal and they already have Conley Jr!!

I DONT GET IT!

Oh and to trade him within your own conference!?

THIS MAKES NO SENSE if your Memphis!

All for an expiring deal?! Who wants to go there anyways!?

by Option27 on Feb 1, 2008 2:49 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Memphis ownership
It makes sense if you understand that current ownership in Memphis wants to sell the franchise. All they cared about was cutting salary to make this easier to do.

by sic on Feb 2, 2008 9:40 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

J.A. Adande
seems to think the Lakers will do what they can to move Odom now, due to lack of touches...maybe Matt's trade will still come true
The more I think about this for the Lakers, they really do need to move Lamar now. He doesn't feel a need to score, but he needs to have the ball in his hands almost every possession to be effective. It's easy to see him drifting as Kobe, Gasol and Bynum get all the touches

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=19107

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 1, 2008 2:50 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Lamar and Bynum to the nets
for kidd doesnt sound so horrible now. They probably wont give up bynum, but seeing what the lakers gave to get gasol maybe they swing something to keep bynum but get kidd. imagine that

kidd
kobe
walton/arezia
gasol
bynum

scary

by bullsfaninla on Feb 1, 2008 2:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

then they wouldn't have made this deal
because they wouldn't have had Kwame's expiring deal

by snley on Feb 1, 2008 3:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

they got kwames expiring deal back for caron
probably wouldnt have been able to get gasol without that

by Mike C on Feb 1, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Kidd won't be a Laker...
Makes no sense.  If they trade Odom, it will be for someone who fits better in the SF slot.  But then maybe they have that guy already - Trevor Ariza...

by withmalice on Feb 1, 2008 7:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What will really fry me
is if KC and Hanley come out with stories alibiing for Paxson.

by alec on Feb 1, 2008 2:51 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

KC defends Paxson tooth and nail
so it's more like "when" rather than "if"...

...I wonder what Sam Smith and Marriotti will have to say about this...

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 1, 2008 2:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why should
we care what they have to say about it?
Yes, the game is on in Iowa.

by sue369 on Feb 1, 2008 3:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i didn't say
that you had to care...i don't care if you care...but as much as those guys are annoying, they ARE pretty entertaining with their crazy opinions and such...at least to me.

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 1, 2008 3:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

nobody cares what anybody says
the only people who matter are the principals involved. You've reminded us many times.

Unfortunately that wacky world of sports fandom is only intersting if we look to opinions and speculation beyond that. Can't get Pax on the phone. Cause it doesn't work. But you can't get many people on the phone either. Sorry to break it to everyone!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 1, 2008 3:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Here's why we should care.
They are press who don't truly operate as the press.  They operate in a dual role of press and Paxson apologists.  In their role as press they shape the opinions of the masses.  And in their role as Paxson puppets, they alibi Paxson.  They create a cocoon around of invulnerability around him, thereby staving off well-deserved public outrage.

by alec on Feb 1, 2008 3:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Smith may defend
Pax but I doubt Marriotti will.
Yes, the game is on in Iowa.

by sue369 on Feb 1, 2008 3:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Mariotti:
"Gasol is an all-star, someone the Bulls haven't had since you-know-who"

"Paxson was a great player when a certain someone with a statue was on his team, but not as good of a gm"

"fans are booing in the house that Jordan built."

"Couldn't get Bryant, closest to the next Jordan"

[then add in a lot of Reinsdorf bashing]

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 1, 2008 3:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, it
could get ugly.
Yes, the game is on in Iowa.

by sue369 on Feb 1, 2008 4:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think people should keep in mind that
a hasty, brash trade can be just as damning as a failure to make a good trade.

Krause's denouement with the Bulls' was replete with supposedly franchise saving trades. The Brand trade. The Rose trade. All it did was create chaos and discontinuity.

Let's wait to see what the actual offers were before we hang Paxson in effigy.

In the meantime, I'd like to see what this roster can do, so I'll go back to wishing that we would play the Youth and the Core together.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 1, 2008 2:59 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Im going to
agree with you on this one.  I think the best way for Bulls fans to interpret this is that the organization has made a tacit commitment to TT and Noah going forward.   If you guys wanna see both of them getting more minutes then you should be happy  to see Gasol going elsewhere.
Sucking chest wound? Bench Wallace and start Noah

by Rusty LaRue on Feb 1, 2008 3:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Plus
Gasol is owed ~$50 mil over the next three years.  That kind of money precludes signing BG or Deng.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Feb 1, 2008 3:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

My hope
is that it precludes them from signing Bynum.  ;)

by Freethefro on Feb 1, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep
Unless Memphis was willing to take Wallace there was just  no way Gasol was coming here and it'd amount to Pax giving up on the last two drafts.
Sucking chest wound? Bench Wallace and start Noah

by Rusty LaRue on Feb 1, 2008 3:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Precludes?
That only precludes signing Deng and Gordon if the team with constant sellouts at the highest capacity stadium in the league and one of the most profitable TV/radio deals in the league refuses to go in to luxury tax territory.  Because clearly, the Dallas Mavericks, now there's a team with a ton more revenue than the Bulls.

by balta1701 on Feb 1, 2008 9:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

how would this have been
hasty and brash?  The worst kept secret over the past 2.5 seasons was that the Bulls wanted Gasol.  They've been "studying" this guy for what seems like forever...so even if Paxson would've made this deal it wouldn't have seemed to brash to me.

That is what's causing the frustration of a lot of people here...EVERY one knew that the Bulls (heck, and even the Grizzlies) were talking about a Gasol deal for the longest...so how can you just let another team come in and scoop him up in a salary dump deal with NO talent coming back...and do it so quickly at that?

We all know that Gasol is not the answer to our prayers around here...but the talk and chatter has been going on for so long that I think most fans probably expected Gasol in a Bulls jersey if not by season's end, then in the summer time....that's just a passing thought now.

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 1, 2008 3:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wait a second...
NO talent???  How can you say that?
Surely Javaris and Kwame...

Nah, sorry - can't keep a straight face!

by withmalice on Feb 1, 2008 8:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree witih most of that
except the use of 'discontinuity'. As it looks now 'continuity' is just acceleration towards a train wreck.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 1, 2008 3:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Will the Youth even be playing?
Tyrus Thomas couldn't even get off the bench until the recent rash of injuries.  Noah was getting less playing time than Joe Smith.  Who's to say they'll even be playing decent minutes when everyone gets healthy?  Remember, this team is still in a playoff "race."

by Big D on Feb 1, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, that's the conflicting part
it's 'win now' on the court, covet the youngsters off of it?

I can't say I'd be happy with either Tyrus or Noah in a Gasol trade either. But you could've gotten Gasol now and still try to dump Wallace later. I don't necessarily agree that Noah and Tyrus have to be starters before they're 25 to be worthwhile as draft picks.

There's plenty of reasons this didn't happen. I'm just uber-pissed if it's because of liking Nocioni.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 1, 2008 3:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Another way to look at it...
Maybe Kwame's expiring contract and Javaris Crittendon are worth more than our depreciated asset pool.  The only ones who probably overrate the young Bulls players almost as much as Paxson are us Bulls fans.

by messwiththebull on Feb 1, 2008 3:03 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I just hope something is coming
Maybe Gasol wasn't the answer, but I don't know if I can watch this team, as constituted-especially considering playing time-for the rest of the season. Having to root for Joe Smith baseline jumpers, awkward Ben Gordon drives and sloppy-second Noah putbacks is just...disheartening.

Please Pax, give us something!!

by Old Skool Sloan on Feb 1, 2008 3:05 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Hinbrick and the Corpse
Get rid of these stiffs they don't do anything but make our offense terrible. As long as these guys are starting we won't win 28 games this season.

by armstrong2389 on Feb 1, 2008 3:11 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I guess this means
We might as well get used to this team?

I don't think there's anyone else out there the Bulls have targeted

We're pretty much stuck with this team.

by Option27 on Feb 1, 2008 3:14 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

long road ahead
this team has already been called quitters by two coaches. yipes.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 1, 2008 3:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

not to mention
by pretty much all of the local media and close to every national media outlet...ugh

by ScottieCartwright on Feb 1, 2008 3:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Is Paxson
trying to prove he can clean up 2 messes?

I really feel like it's going to be a really LONG road back.

I'm trying to think off of the top of my head who the Bulls could be looking at now that may be disgruntled or anything.

NOTHING comes to mind except Kidd and God knows he isn't the answer

by Option27 on Feb 1, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I hate the "team just quit" excuse
The effort is there, they just aren't that good.

by RogersPark Kris on Feb 1, 2008 3:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The effort is there, they just aren't that good.
Actually, yes AND no on that one...

We all know that  it all starts and ends with a good coach, let alone the RIGHT one.

If Phil, or Pop, or someone with genuine MoJo and a plan were coaching these guys -
I do believe that there is plenty of talent on the Bulls and that they would be a MUCH better team with a much better record.

It's a shame that they cannot find it within themselves and go "into their own little worlds and act childish"...
But a better coach would make a big difference in the players' attitudes, and thus likely their play level as well.

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Feb 1, 2008 5:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey
Paxs grow some balls. Make a deal, trade 1 of the midgets you got in the back court. Shit trade Deng he can't create his own shot. Overrated big time.

by chris44 on Feb 1, 2008 3:24 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Maybe it has nothing to do with balls
and more to do with Pax holding assets no one really wants.  You say trade those two midgets, but if we don't want them, who does?  The ideal trading partners would be teams who don't mind a midget backcourt, but the last I saw, Golden State has better guards than the Bulls, and that leaves...Charlotte with Felton and McInnis?  Who else wants a midget backcourt, where neither midget can play the point?  Any hands?  We're overrating our guys almost as much as Pax did.  Aside from Noah and maybe Tyrus, who has trade value?  Thabo would get us $0.30 on the dollar right now.  Deng and Gordon have to be extended and want more than they're worth.  Hinrich and Noce have long-term poison pill deals and are both overpaid.  The Corpse?  Maybe Joe Smith.  Who can we deal in return for a quality building block?  Why would any team want these guys?  I'd rather have Kwame's expiring deal and Crittendon, too.  The Griz still don't have a legit 2 guard since Gay is more of a 3.  Crittendon fancies himself as a point but he's more of a combo.  The Grizz can play him at the 2 and some at the 1 to spell their own midget backcourt of Conley and the soon to be dealt Lowry.  

by messwiththebull on Feb 1, 2008 4:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I just think
Chris has a thing for balls.

http://www.blogabull.com/comments/2008/2/1/151320/9543/122#122

Yes, the game is on in Iowa.

by sue369 on Feb 1, 2008 4:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Obviously, you skipped
that church camp with wjb.

by alec on Feb 1, 2008 4:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Never went
to church camp but I did go to Girl Scout camp. If you ever need help making a camp fire I'm your girl. :P
Yes, the game is on in Iowa.

by sue369 on Feb 1, 2008 5:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Done
Yes, the game is on in Iowa.

by sue369 on Feb 1, 2008 6:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You
thinking is bad for all of us. So stop!

by chris44 on Feb 1, 2008 4:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Can't
Yes, the game is on in Iowa.

by sue369 on Feb 1, 2008 5:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah
mug
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Feb 1, 2008 5:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The question is
who do we target now?

by eross226 on Feb 1, 2008 3:36 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

pax's cell phone charger
he can't get that thing working until he finds it. Must've lost it on his last scouting trip (watching the final 4).

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 1, 2008 3:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Be nice to Pax!
C'mon, the Bulls have gone after every player traded in the last 3 years.  

And it's not that the Bulls didn't have better players to give up, it's just that, due to circumstances, they were better but didn't happen to be what the other teams conducting those 178 trades wanted.

You know, just a coincidence. Just bad luck.  Like the time you broke up the girl and said "it's not you, it's me".  Well, Pax seems to hear that one a lot.

by Sports2 on Feb 1, 2008 3:37 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

reportedly
one of the 'oddly-coveted BaB all-stars', Marc Gasol, is being sent to Memphis. And the deceased Aaron McKie.

Griz shouldn't waive McKie, get Pax on the line. He's tough and good in the locker room!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 1, 2008 3:44 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

True
And McKie could pave the way for Stacey King to say, "Now that was a veteran ball fake!"

by RogersPark Kris on Feb 1, 2008 3:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Whoa
I thought that McKie was still on the Laker payroll. He isn't, if it's true that he's included it'd be like a PJ Brown sign/trade scenario. Which I know everyone talks about, but I doubted would actually happen in practice.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 1, 2008 3:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't he on the 76ers coaching staff?
I'm now confused.  I swear I saw him during the Bucks/76ers game.  (The horror, the horror)

by KT on Feb 1, 2008 4:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You did.
McKie is currently working as an unpaid assistant for the 76ers... but is still 'assigned' to the Lakers.  He'll be bought out by the Griz in all of this.

by withmalice on Feb 1, 2008 8:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Bigger question on McKie
Does he vote along useless veteran party lines?

by snley on Feb 1, 2008 5:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Now we can go for a
BG ,BW and Kirk to the clippers for Kamen and Maggete it will never work but u never know.

by eross226 on Feb 1, 2008 3:45 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Damn, and I said I would not post anymore
about firing Pax.... is it too late to retract that statement........lol
"We are who you thought we were"

by Thirdrock on Feb 1, 2008 3:49 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Can someone explain....
Why everyone in the media killed Paxson for not dealing deng for gasol and now are saying it's a decent deal for the grizz to trade him off for expiring contracts and the #19 pick?

by cjurmann on Feb 1, 2008 4:16 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I don't know
I did hear Wallace on ESPN saying they Grizz made the trade to clear salary for this summer's free agent class.

Also, to make the team more saleable.

So maybe the media likes salary dump moves?

by KT on Feb 1, 2008 4:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

this gives the Grizz enough cap room
to sign Gordon or Deng this summer, btw. Or Iggy, if they so desire, even if they are restricted.

That's according to Sham of Shamsports, the best tracker of salary around.

by KT on Feb 1, 2008 4:24 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Wow, never thought of that
That would leave the Bulls completely and utterly screwed.

by RogersPark Kris on Feb 1, 2008 4:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's a good point.
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 1, 2008 4:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If that happens...
it should get it's own entry in the BaB encyclopedia under "Adding Insult to Injury"

by alec on Feb 1, 2008 4:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Right. In a year when very few teams have cap
room.  Blaming Paxson for not getting Gasol is dumb.  That is unless Nocioni was really untouchable, then he really should be fired.  Making trades just to make trades is how teams getting really bad for a long time.  Getting Gasol on this team would be activity, but it wouldn't be accomplishment.

by Scotter on Feb 1, 2008 4:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Concur 100%
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 1, 2008 4:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm up for some activity
considering that the team has no coach and has quit. There's too many games left to be played to just sit on the hands now.

Even if it's just dealing Joe Smith for something to be used later.

But anyway, I only brought up Nocioni because it was reported by a couple different sources. In the grand scheme of things, 'missing out' on Gasol isn't that big of a deal. Unless they deal Noah+Tyrus for garbage, or continue to fail in developing them.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 1, 2008 4:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well unloading Joe Smith
would be accomplishment in my book.  Even if it's for nothing to just get him out of the way.  Joe Smith playing well is simply a trap.  All his presence on the court does is encourage his team to settle for crappy midrange numbers.

by Scotter on Feb 1, 2008 5:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What hurts is what the Grizz got for Gasol
[violently pounding head on desk]

by ForWhomTheBullTolls on Feb 1, 2008 4:33 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I don't get it
All of this consternation confuses me a bit.  Gasol's pretty good, but I think if this past year proved something, it's that he's only good in a slowed-down plodding offense.  He's certainly not worth a super-duperstar package.  His own fans give him the Zach Randolph treatment, and even in a system tailor-made for him he couldn't emerge as a legit leader.

Here's an unofficial checklist of what teams want when they're trading stars: 1)cap room, 2)picks, and 3)young prospects. What the Grizz got: big cap relief (Kwame, McKey), 2 first-rounders, one decent young prospect in Crittenton, and another young prospect (Gasol Jr.) that has elicited several jeans-creaming sessions around Blog-a-Bull.  The Bulls probably could have competed in the cap room and prospects department (if they were able to use the PJ Brown cap-dodge), but 2 first-rounders?  I know the Lakers are picking low but I don't see the Bulls giving up non-protected picks (the New York situation proved that it can be a disasterous idea), and honestly I don't see the Bulls giving up multiple first rounders for Gasol.  The Lakers won't need their picks because they now have a window of a few years of legit championship contention.  The Bulls could have been one of several contenders for the East crown in the best possible Gasol-rejuvenating-the-franchise scenario, but they'd still need an elite scoring threat to be legit overall title contenders--a scoring threat that due to the Corpse's contract they'd be unable to get through free-agency.  Basically multiple first round picks-OK idea for the Lakers, bad idea for the Bulls.

I understand animosity towards the Bulls, but put it on Jim "really-nice-but-also-super-incompetent" Boylan and the players that Pax actually has, not the players that he might have gotten.

by Petor on Feb 1, 2008 5:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

great post ... agreed
why are we worrying about another team in another conference? i understand this gasol trade has more relevance to the Bulls (because we were in the trade talks as well) than most other NBA teams but what's done is done.

way too much bitching and moaning. forget the lakers. forget about kobe now. let's move on.

by Orange Juice on Feb 1, 2008 5:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why I'm worried
I think my worry is pretty simple.  I see the Bulls kind of stagnating right now...they're in a position where they might pay good money next season to keep Gordon and Deng, and wind up in this exact same spot,  except with another top 10 pick not playing more than 10 minutes a game.

The Bulls have a boatload of high draft picks, but really right now haven't turned out a star out of them (although they have a couple guys they could still develop).  And a big part of that is that they just don't have the minutes to move around right now to actually develop these guys.

This offseason, Pax needs to make a choice.  Either he needs to commit to playing his young guys, which means he needs to clear space for them however he can, or he needs to turn his young guys into someone more effective.  Picking up Gasol would fit the latter option.  He might not be the best center in the league, but he's an upgrade over the current combination of Joe Smith and Ben Wallace for 30 minutes a game and Tyrus and Noah for 8 minutes a piece.

by balta1701 on Feb 1, 2008 9:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Err... huh?
Gasol's 'plodding'?  Hardly.  For a 7footer, he's pretty quick.  Not KG quick, but definitely quicker than say... Kwame.

by withmalice on Feb 1, 2008 8:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Our only hope
is that Gasol sucks in LA.  I really, really don't want to have to see Bryant winning anymore championships and then if you add in the fact that Gasol is the guy who elevates them then it makes the Bulls look that much worse.

As for Nocioni, I really doubt he had anything to do with our trade or non trade.  Why in the world would Memphis want him anymore?  They wanted him this summer because they thought they could win with him and Gasol.  If you get rid of Gasol they're not gonna win anytime soon and so they don't need a 28 year old role player aynmore.

by JSlakov on Feb 1, 2008 4:36 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

well
much like the Grizzlies, the Bulls thought they had a chance to win now.  And I think they had a more reasonable reason to think that.  Sadly it all turned out wrong.

by JSlakov on Feb 1, 2008 4:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Bhahaha...
"they don't need a 28 year old role player aynmore."

Gasol's a role-player.  Riiiiiight.

by withmalice on Feb 1, 2008 8:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nocioni is the 28 year old role player
Perhaps some practice in reading comprehension would be helpful.

by Scotter on Feb 1, 2008 9:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Actually...
I think maybe you practicing a legible sentence might be more so. ;)

by withmalice on Feb 1, 2008 10:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

hey
Paxs just made a deal. Yeah right who am I fooling. Paxs sucks.

by chris44 on Feb 1, 2008 4:48 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

You
know not only does paxs suck. Matt sucks, sue sucks and all the rest of you idiots suck. You guys are just like paxs, don't think we can use Gasol. Ha. What do we have now? Wallace, Noah high on him, why he gets 6pts 9-10 rebs he's not a 20 -10 guy no offensive game. Tyrus another non offensive player, lets not forget Gray. Wow were looking pretty good aren't we people. Dumbass people. Why couldn't we trade for him and give up our draft picks and some of our shitty players. We have enough shitty players to give. 67pts in minny. What a damn joke, all role players people. Get it thru your stupid ass brains!!!!

by chris44 on Feb 1, 2008 5:28 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

You better hope
the Bulls don't lose tomorrow night. You do know what happens when they lose don't you?
Yes, the game is on in Iowa.

by sue369 on Feb 1, 2008 5:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Is it your impression
that everyone here is relieved we didn't get Gasol?  If so, I suggest you re-read the diary.  I think you'll find Gasol-to-the-Bulls gets mixed reviews, but with a heavy slant toward being disgusted it didn't happen.

As to your disparagement of Noah--he's been getting a steady and healthy dose of props from David Thorpe, and in his latest look atht eh top rookies Noah has worked his way up to 4th.

Since getting consistent minutes, he's been outplaying Horford. I wouldn't be surprised to see him end the season at number 2.  

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/rookies/rankings

by alec on Feb 1, 2008 6:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's not even being disgusted
about not getting it but disgusted about what happened, I think.  Since if Gasol wasn't traded, then we probably would have resigned ourselves to the fact the Griz weren't trading him.  But clearly we could have made a better offer than what the Lakers gave up.  Similar (though this is larger scale) to the disgust about the Scola trade, since our offer was better, in most eyes, than what the Rockets gave.

by Jaina on Feb 1, 2008 8:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We tried
to trade for Luis Scola?
TMD- http://playahatersblog.blogspot.com

by TMD on Feb 1, 2008 9:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I thought we had
offered Du + something, I don't remember.  Instead they resigned Jacques Vaughn as their 3rd string point and traded away Scola for cap relief (that dude from Greece).

by Jaina on Feb 1, 2008 10:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ugh
I just don't get it.  Where is this Bulls team heading?  Why couldn't we have put together a deal...?  How did the Lakers get away with such a horrendous trade?  I never really heard the Lakers being interested in Gasol either.  Definitely not as much as interest as the Bulls over the last year and a half.

Maybe there is a chance the Lakers are planning on acquiring Gasol in order to trade him to the Bulls for certain Bulls players?  If that is not the case, I don't know where we go from here. Gasol was my #1 target for the Bulls...

by Mattchoo on Feb 1, 2008 5:56 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Ummm... No.
Trade him to the Bulls?
Oh right.  Of course the Bulls have players that would slot into the Lakers team MUCH better than Gasol does.
<rolls eyes>

Thanks, but no thanks.  Bubbye. ;)

by withmalice on Feb 1, 2008 8:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We should go after Andris Biedrins
hes really young and athletic. I dont know what it would take to get him from GS (im sure alot) but i think he could help this team.

by eross226 on Feb 1, 2008 6:22 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

See that's the thing
Big men that are actually good are hard to come by unless they're disgruntled or unless the team flat out sucks.

I can't think of anyone else that the Bulls could go after anymore.

Why would GS get rid of Biedrins? When you got a good big guy, you don't trade him.

I honestly felt Gasol was our only and last hope for a long time. Now it seems they just gotta get lucky in the draft

by Option27 on Feb 1, 2008 6:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No, not the draft.
They just have to actually play and develop the two lottery picks already on the roster.

by Scotter on Feb 1, 2008 6:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Those two lottery picks
Just don't seem to have the offense to develop though.

That was pretty much known when they drafted em'

If you wanna call that baby hook Noah has and Thomas' dunking ability offense, well that's a different story

by Option27 on Feb 1, 2008 7:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thomas
will be fine if he ever gets consistent playing time and put in positions to be successful.  He's going to be able to make his jumpshots.  He's going to be able to faceup and drive by guys from the elbow.  And he'll have a decent jumphook.  And he'll get to the FT line.  He doesn't need anything more than that to be an effective scorer.  That's if the team doesn't totally screw him up.

Noah's not going to get any worse offensively.  He's going to always get points off of offensive rebounds and FTs.  He could already average double figure points as is if he got 32 min/g.  Neither has to be  good offensively as Pau anyway because they're both better defensively.

by Scotter on Feb 1, 2008 7:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Regressing Offensively
Don't forget about Tyson.

by Jesse07 on Feb 2, 2008 9:16 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That didn't exactly last did it?
Tyson is about the worst example you could have picked.  You could have picked Hinrich, Gordon, or Deng then you'd at least have the unknown working for you.

by Scotter on Feb 2, 2008 12:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Might be a great example
High energy player with a lot of potential but Tyson regressed each year with the Bulls.  When he left the Bulls, he was a worse offensively when he started in the league.  

by Jesse07 on Feb 2, 2008 12:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

same here
The exact same thought crossed my mind earlier today.  Nelson loathes big men who live in the post.  But his style of play duplicates Noah in many respects and I would still prefer Tyrus' upside at the 4 should the Bulls ever commit to playing him there.  Tyrus can have a Shawn Kemp style of offensive game if he's allowed to develop in that way.  

by messwiththebull on Feb 1, 2008 9:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Haha, I was checking past emails I've sent to
friends and had the following three team deal (involving Lakers), which might have been better for the Grizz.

Bulls Get:

Pau Gasol (from Grizz)
Vladimir Radmonivic (from Lakers)
Brian Cardinal (from Grizz)

Lakers Get:
Ben Wallace
Bulls 2nd Round '08 Pick

Memphis Gets:
Kwame Brown (from Lakers) - has expiring contract
Tyrus Thomas (from Bulls)
Viktor Khryapa (from Bulls) - has expiring contract
Bulls 1st Round '08 Pick
Lakers 1st Round '08 Pick

by Mattchoo on Feb 1, 2008 6:29 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Are you completely and utterly insane?
Why on earth would the Lakers do that???

Trade away - Radmonivic/Kwame/1st round pick.
For Wallace and a 2nd round pick??
Stay away from your mother's prescription medication!

by withmalice on Feb 1, 2008 9:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I just found this out
I had a busy day at work and couldn't check web.  I am amazed how little Lakers gave up.  Paxson took PJ Brown with the hope that his expiring contract would get Gasol. Memphis clearly could have done better making a trade with the Bulls last year.  This is depressing.  The Bulls are one of if not the worst team in the NBA.  We don't get Gasol.  Tough way to start the weekend!

by chgobr on Feb 1, 2008 7:22 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Pax must be in
Jerry's good graces.  His actions (or lack thereof) don't make him seem like he's very worried about his job.  

The players don't try or care and the games still sell out.  There isn't much pressure on the management other than to make the playoffs and get some extra revenue out of this season.

A sense of urgency and being one of the profitable teams in the NBA apparently don't go hand in hand.  After all, we've got a big man who gives us 4.5 and 8.7 in 32 minutes every game.... why would we want a 19 and 9 guy.  

by No bull on Feb 1, 2008 7:46 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Lester Munson
was a guest on Chicago Tonight.  He said Paxson should be fired and the Bulls should start over.

He referred to the Bulls roster as hoped-for all-stars that have shown themselves to be nothing more than "journeymen."

by alec on Feb 1, 2008 8:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL!
Never went to church camp but I did go to Girl Scout camp. If you ever need help making a campfire I'm your girl. :P

by sue369 on Feb 1, 2008 10:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

People, we have a stuuuuuuuuuud,
his name is Tyrus. We don't need broken down Europeans to save us. We need to stop complaining and watch the sun rise, the flower bloom, the, uh, Tyrus...dunk! Just like wine a great team takes time. Jordan didn't win the Chip his first year. Let's take a deep breath and see where things go the next couple years with not one, but, yes, two big studs on our front line. That is, if Pax doesn't screw the pooch and settle for mediocrity.

by philosoball on Feb 1, 2008 8:44 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

someone who agrees with me...
i like it.  that is something i have been saying all year.  patience!  sure, the expectations were high this season, and it is always dissapointing when those expectations are no where close to being met, but still, the bulls future is bright.  rome wasnt built in a day, you know what i mean?    experience goes a long way in this league, especially if you want to compete for rings, and the bulls are young, and clearly have more learning to do, but team chemistry is probably the most important part of winning games, it's what paxson's philosophy is, and i prefer that as opposed to a gunslinging gm who is always changing the lineup.  i know you can't stand still and not do anything, but why be reckless?  i think paxson erred on the side of caution with gasol, and i dont blame him.  there is no doubt the bulls need a go to guy and a leader, but when you think about it, thats really all they need (and a kick ass coach).  all the other pieces are in place.  plus, we don't even know what we have with tt yet, and i imagine it will be pretty damn good once he gets comfortable.  
and people, for the love of god, stop saying you arent going to be bulls fans if they keep "this" up.  what the hell does that mean?  do us a favor and stop being bulls fans, then. there is nothing worse than a fan who swears loyalty and allegiance when their team is kicking ass, and then jumping ship when the team is having a bad season.  get over it, soar losers.  this is all part of the process.  what is it really worth if you don't even have to struggle for it?  remember what phil said, "its the journey to the championship that counts, not the championship itself."

by Conor on Feb 2, 2008 10:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Phil works for LA now!
We have Boylan - - the great example of mediocrity!  I wish I could agree with you but the reality of this team is overwhelmingly depressing.

by chgobr on Feb 2, 2008 11:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I am a little disappointed
I think Memphis did this for the expiring contract but I wish we could have put together some kind of package for him. He would have helped
TMD- http://playahatersblog.blogspot.com

by TMD on Feb 1, 2008 8:58 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Who's with me?
I guess I'll lay my BaB reputation on the line that Deng, Thomas and Noah will make up the best front court in the entire NBA by the 2010-2011 season. If Sefolosha magically develops and they get lucky in this year's draft, they'll have the best team in the Eastern Conference.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 1, 2008 9:17 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I would love to see that
TMD- http://playahatersblog.blogspot.com

by TMD on Feb 1, 2008 9:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Your rep isn't what you think it is
but I am with you.  I just don't think anybody here has the patience to wait that long.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Feb 1, 2008 10:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd wait because at least in that scenario
there would actually be something to wait for.  But, I also doubt it would take that long, or at least it shouldn't take that long.  If Paxson lets the coaching staff waste the rest of the season then it  probably would that long.

by Scotter on Feb 1, 2008 10:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

In 2010-11
We'll be full swing in the LeBron James Championship era.

Whatever team he's on, we'll be lucky to finish runner up.

by RogersPark Kris on Feb 1, 2008 10:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I forgot
he will be a free agent by then.
TMD- http://playahatersblog.blogspot.com

by TMD on Feb 1, 2008 10:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If you were Gasol
which team would you want to be trade too?
  1. Lakers
  2. Bulls
This Bulls team value has drop in the eyes of good players wanting to win a championship.
We fired Skiles, rookie coach Boylan beings nothing and now Chicago has fell from grace.  

Paxson will have to come out of the box and start to make some changes that provide some lasting value.  

He might not get a home run initially, but whimpy deals like signing AG to 3 years because he's a bench leader is not what we need now. Or, signing safe mle 1/2 year of value Joe Smith is ok and safe but now what?  Does PJ Brown expiring contract go un-used?  Someone needs to start a diary on potential guys available regardless if we feel they are the answer now?  We have many holes and need to plug then one-by-one.  

These moody players need some competition, their heads are so big and they continue to lose games.  

The little Bullies just need to stay on the disable list and rest.. poor babies now feel like blaming their losing now all on Boylan?  

If Paxson can get someone to run the PG better than his beloved Kirk, bring him in.  Maybe this will reduce the time interval of Kirk's hot-cold playing. Duhon's not the answer.  We need a PG who can shoot, not a PG who shoots.

Or someone who takes minutes away from Gordon and Thabo..Fine.  Let them compete.  If Deng wants to go to sleep in the 4th qtr, play someone else(Tyrus) let him(Deng) sit. Play Tyrus and design plays in practice just for him so that he has many 4th qtr explosions that will be heard all around the NBA to propel the Bulls to victories.  

Exploit Tyrus strengths and mask his weaknesses. LSU did it, other NBA team do it all the time with their players.  Once his confidence builds he'll think he has no weaknesses and he'll also be on time for practice.  Shake it up, Boylan! what do you have to lose.. What you and Paxson are doing now isn't working..
 

by exult463 on Feb 1, 2008 9:22 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Now that's how you use an expiring contract!
You know, some GM's trade their young 23 year-old 7-foot center for a 37-year old power forward with an expiring contract and just let that contract expire, even after getting a trade demand from said 37-year old with expiring contract.  And some GM's trade their expiring contracts to fill a void in the post, making his team a contender while retaining his best talent.  

It's sweet irony that Pau ends up with Kobe - two guys who should be in Bulls uniforms today.

by messwiththebull on Feb 1, 2008 9:43 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

that's it in a nut shell!
I imagine Paxson can still make a deal using PJ, but that utimately means taking on a rather large existing contract player that should add real value to the team.   Yet, Wallace, Kirk & Noc are already expensive with our current 1st and 2nd scoring options in contract year and presently unsigned.  

It doesn't seem to make much sense, is their a hidden strategy waiting to be revealed?  Maybe one day Paxson, Skiles or another insider will reveal the perceived logic(+ yea & nay opinions) in the Chandler - Wallace swap?

by exult463 on Feb 1, 2008 10:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Add me to the depressed column
Aside from the youngins' development, the only thing that was getting me through this stretch of mediocrity was the thought that a big trade could still happen (and maybe it still might, I suppose). But probably not. And so eventually all the injured vets will come back, and as the team struggles to be an 8th or 7th seed we won't have one player that can reliably create his own offense. Not one player sniffing an all-star selection (for what that's worth). Not one player in the top 50 in PER (Deng is 67th).

Instead, we can look forward to passes to Big Ben with a few seconds on the shot clock. Little Ben losing the ball, falling down, or hoisting a last-second miss with taller players in his face. Games in which the most exciting thing in the box score is how many minutes Ty or Noah got. Listless efforts for which the team will admit the problem but have no answers other than "It is what it is." Oh, and ton of entries in the "biggest disappointments of the season" lists, Bill Simmons' mockery and Charles Barkley's broken-record dismissive complaints, and a few foaming-at-the-mouth rants from Mariotti.

by T Maple on Feb 1, 2008 11:46 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

It feels
like this (bulls team & org.) are the Atlanta Hawks.  Both are similiar and aren't going nowhere too fast.  Actually the GMs are careful, and don't make to many trades instead build thru the draft.  Both teams seem to always pass up in the draft players who excel higher in the NBA than the players they picked.  Both have drafted big men the last two years, and the 2007 draft both drafted Gater Boys.  Both teams 2006 draft picks (Sheldon Williams, Tyrus Thomas) have been under performers thus far, and can't get much playing time.  But the 2007 Gaters picks are more involved in the rotational w/minutes.  

Both teams have shoot first PG, and talented abundance of 6'8 to 6'9 guys.  Neither team has a true leader to carry the team on his shoulders.  Both teams have won 18 games so far this year.

Which team will get the 8th seed in the playoffs?

by exult463 on Feb 1, 2008 11:52 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

This isn't all that bad for the Grizzlies.
They got rid of a big whining under performing contract, got a couple of picks and get to start anew.  Now they can build around their stud, their gunner and their duo of young PGs.

by Kemp on Feb 2, 2008 2:17 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Pax!! No fu... way!!
Just got home from a fun night and see that...
Pax?????
How did you let this happened!! OMG

by Zermerso on Feb 2, 2008 2:17 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

It could easily be done!
kobe for deng + wallace + Du
Gasol for PG (sign in trade) + Ty2

Our NBA Champ team:
kirk-Tabo
Kobe/Ben
Chapo-Viktor
Gasol-Joe
Noah-Gray

by Zermerso on Feb 2, 2008 2:41 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Ok
First off, Kobe was never going anywhere; second off, even if he were, he was never going for Deng, Wallace and Duhon.

by Kemp on Feb 2, 2008 4:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm with Kemp...
Absolutely INSANE trade proposal.
Anyway, why would Kobe agree to that, when the team he's on now is BETTER?

by withmalice on Feb 2, 2008 6:02 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Memphis disappointed with the trade
The Memphis reaction from today's Memphis Commercial Appeal is not positive.
Gasol for what?
The Grizzlies trade their best player to the Lakers for questionable talent and draft picks of little potential.
Let's take a look at what they got:

The Lakers' first-round picks in 2008 and 2010. Which will be so low in the first round as to be essentially worthless. The Phoenix Suns routinely sell their low first-round picks for cash. Other good teams spend them on players who will stay in Europe a few years and not clutter up their roster.

Point guard Javaris Crittenton. He's the Lakers' first-round pick from last year. The Grizzlies now have three young point guards heading into one of the deepest point-guard drafts in history.

And if the Lakers thought Crittenton was going to be a star, do you think they would have dealt him away? They wouldn't give up Andrew Bynum for anything.

Marc Gasol. Oh, brother. He's a former second-round pick who will almost certainly be dealt.

Kwame Brown and Aaron McKie. Brown is a bust and McKie is retired. They're included only for purposes of cap room.

by chgobr on Feb 2, 2008 7:23 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

We here held out hope yesterday
that our main Chicago print media wouldn't kowtow to Bulls management.  So far, Sam Smith has come through for us, savaging the trade from a Bulls perspective, making many of the points we did yesterday.

His column won't endear him to Paxson or Reinsdorf, that's for sure.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-080201-smith-lakers-gasol-grizzli es-brown,1,525386.column

by alec on Feb 2, 2008 8:30 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Bill Walton, during his broadcast
last night said it was one of the most one-sided deals in history.  They were alternately laughing about it stunned into shocked disbelief by it in the studio.

Someone summed it up perfectly here yesterday as paying 30 cents on the dollar, and asking why the Bulls could have offered 50.

Still stunned today.

by alec on Feb 2, 2008 8:35 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I'm shocked
This emphasizes the importance small market teams place on salaries.  It makes me pessimistic about moving the Corpse.  We now are in the worst possible situation.  We are playing horrible basketball, too good a record to get a top pick, no cap flexibility with your highest paid player beyond useless and unmoveable. Ugh!!!!!

by chgobr on Feb 2, 2008 8:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Mike McGraw says the Bulls deal
fell through because the Bulls refused to take on a bad contract.

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=126520

"The Bulls thought they had a deal for Gasol a few weeks ago involving Nocioni and some other pieces, but it fell through when Memphis wanted the Bulls to take on an additional bad contract."

We are so screwed.

by alec on Feb 2, 2008 8:41 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

What a suprise
"Bulls general manager John Paxson declined to comment Friday."

Let me comment for you John.

"I'm embarrassed that I couldn't get the job done for a player I've always coveted. Add this to my list of trade failures."

by RogersPark Kris on Feb 2, 2008 8:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

pretty vile
the article also implies that Wallace's inflated, ridiculous contract had everything to do with this.  When Wallace plays, he sucks.  When Wallace doesn't play, he sucks.

by Freethefro on Feb 2, 2008 9:01 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

When I look at the Corpse I get sick
When I hear that bell ring I want to scream.  When he bricks a one foot layup I'm beyond help!

by chgobr on Feb 2, 2008 9:07 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Screw it
he's not worth that much anxiety.  My advice is to pick a college team - unless you've already got one - and root for them.  You may still wish the Bulls were decent, but at least you get to watch intense, quality, and FUN basketball.  Me, I like UCLA.  Love, Westbrook, Darren Coll...I actually ENJOY their games.  Whereas with the Bulls, even when they win, they do so in a boring and sometimes dispiriting way.    

by Freethefro on Feb 2, 2008 9:12 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the advice
I guess I'm a hopeless Bulls fan.  I suffered through the post Jordan disaster and now going through this mess.  I could deal with getting blown out if we were playing our young guys.  The corpse getting playing time does drive me crazy.

by chgobr on Feb 2, 2008 9:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely good advice
Been in LA around 10 years now, and it was only when PhilJax came back that I decided to make room in my fandom for local teams.  First choice was to go back to an old love for UCLA and watched them in the Maui tourney last year and found the PG I always wanted to be, Darren Collison.  Then started watching the Lakers, and this time around, the team is not resisting Jax, so I'm very pleased with their progress.  UCLA was a class act last year, and is again this year.
    Still brokenhearted about the Beloved, but I have hope that they're on the same page I am.  The last rebuilding effort came close, but has nowhere to go as presently structured.  When I posted the "Pax, you're fired" diary, it was with the hope they already have a 2011-12 plan in the works.  Following the old adage, you gotta get real bad before you get real good, get what they can in picks, youth and cap space for BG, Deng, Noc, Kirk.  Let BW expire if there are no deals.  Try to maneuver up this year and next in the draft, and then look at the 2010 free agents.  If they have the potential then that Portland had last year, how much of a dream is it to go for LeBron?  Shit, we could have Paxson at point and Mike Brown at center as long as we kept TT and Noah and developed them for the next 2 years!  And LeBron isn't the only possible chip, as you all know:
http://www.stopmikelupica.com/2007/12/nba_salary_cap_analysis_part_1.php

by California Al on Feb 2, 2008 10:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The word is "shocked"
The Bulls couldn't have made a better offer?

It's a shocker that a scoring 7-footer could go for so little in talent, especially to the Bulls, who had been the prime suitors for Gasol for longer than a year.

This seemingly came about because the Grizzlies just wanted to dump salary.

The Grizzlies had been in talks with several teams in recent weeks, including the Bulls, league sources confirmed.

What Memphis was discovering was it could not get commensurate talent for Gasol, who has averaged almost 19 points and nine rebounds over his career. The Lakers initially were offering Brown and Vladimir Radmanovic, the Cavaliers supposedly were offering Drew Gooden and Larry Hughes and the Trail Blazers were believed to be offering Raef LaFrentz and Travis Outlaw. All were veteran players with long contracts at a time the Memphis franchise is for sale and losing upward of $25 million annually.

Smith's term there is that it's "a shocker... to the Bulls, who had been the prime suitors for Gasol for longer than a year".

If you've been talking to to a team for a freaking year, how can you be "shocked" about what they want.  Especially when you have something like 3 other teams who aren't?

I think the idea that the Bulls "just didn't have any expiring contracts" is a bit of a wash.  There seems to be a market out there that would have gotten expiring deals for the Bulls.  Think some team wouldn't take Joe Smith for an expiring contract.  We read the other day that Noc might get them from New Jersey.  Think the Heat wouldn't trade Ricky Davis for one of those guys?  Think the Nets wouldn't trade Jamaal Magloire for one of these guys?

Just to prove the point, I'm talking about something like this:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=10~498~2377~3224~3028~788~996&teams=4~ 13~13~13~13~17~4&te=&cash=

Ironically, it lends suspicion that the Bulls were also wrong in completely the wrong direction, potentially willing to give up much more in talent than they needed to, but ignorant of what was actually going on.

In other words, the situation was completely misjudged.

by Sports2 on Feb 2, 2008 9:31 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not only did we miss-judge Memphis
it sounds like Memphis didn't understand Memphis.  They clearly could have obtained a better deal from us last year.  They screwed up big time to end up with nothing for Gasol.

by chgobr on Feb 2, 2008 9:45 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

At east
it shows that Pax is willing to trade Noch.
Never went to church camp but I did go to Girl Scout camp. If you ever need help making a campfire I'm your girl. :P

by sue369 on Feb 2, 2008 9:56 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe Memphis didn't make a deal with us
last year because they don't value Gordon, Deng, Thabo or TT very highly and didn't want to pay them.

by chgobr on Feb 2, 2008 10:03 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

No. They were just
desperate for the cap space and Paxson was too imperceptive to see it.  Instead he wasted his time pursuing player swap ideas with them when all Memphis really wanted was salary cap relief.

The really frustrating part is that in five minutes Mike McGraw came up with a scenario that worked even better for Memphis than what they settled on from L.A.--and it wouldn't have cost the Bulls any of their valued players.  All the Bulls would have had to have done is been willing to take on a bad contract.

L.A. was willing.  Worse yet, the cost to the Bulls would have worked out to be $10 million less than what L.A. wound up paying.  There's just no way to get away from the Bulls getting punked and getting played for complete fools in this deal.

by alec on Feb 2, 2008 3:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What makes me happier
They were after Noah and Sefolosha

Although I'm still sour on Gasol coming to my city, it makes it a bit easier to hear that the Bulls wouldn't give up Noah and Sefolosha for Gasol cause I wouldn't either.

Maybe Sefolosha if the price was right but my heart would be more hurt if they gave up Noah than it is already now.

by Option27 on Feb 2, 2008 10:11 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I don't want
to give up either one but sadly I have no say in who would get traded. :-(
Never went to church camp but I did go to Girl Scout camp. If you ever need help making a campfire I'm your girl. :P

by sue369 on Feb 2, 2008 10:35 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

worst part
is that the Lakers were the one team I could see getting the corpse.  Looks like we will remain a Bull for the rest of the season...:(
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Feb 2, 2008 11:01 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

That's what
Sam Smith said too.

by Jaina on Feb 2, 2008 12:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

comments
A lot of people here seem to be like Paxson...over value our players.  Noah and Tyrus have potential, but so did deng and gordon last year and now everyone has soured on them.

I dont understand anyones reluctance to do away with either noah or tyrus for anyone who is actually already a good big man in the NBA.  Espescially tyrus. say what you want but he has looked worse every month of the year and is looking like a big bust until he proves otherwise.  lil spurts of good play mean little. I am sure stromile swift also had some amazing games in his young career too.

by Sambossanova on Feb 2, 2008 12:32 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

When you think of all the top-10 picks
the Bulls have had since Jordan, and this year's production and prospects, it's pretty hard to defend anyone associated with this mess.

by hhi on Feb 2, 2008 12:43 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Paxs
trade for gooden and Hughes at least we will score pts. Get rid of Wallace, hinrich. Make the deal.

by chris44 on Feb 2, 2008 1:18 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Why so eager to get rid of hinrich
Unless its for kidd or another top ten pg, i really dont see why you would want to do it.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Feb 2, 2008 1:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You mean Larry Hughes?
If you mean Larry Hughes, you know, Gooden's pretty bad, and Hughes is about the worst player ... ever. It's my opinion that he's worse than Wallace: a Wages of Win +/- sheet for last year put him at around, oh, let's say # 230 out of 242. It may have been 430 out of 442, or something, but his average winscore was negative. He's like Sefolosha with a worse jump shot.

by Prevenge on Feb 2, 2008 5:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Here's my bet
on what happens next.  Paxson attempts to deflect criticisms of his competence by releasing a statement that says how much faith he has in the guys on the team, blah, blah, blah.

by alec on Feb 2, 2008 3:38 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

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