Bulls-Blazers postgame venting thread
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 3, 2008 11:18 PM CST
in News
317 comments
They had a lineup at one point of Duhon/Gordon/Griffin/Noah/Wallace. Because there was a lead to protect, and Boylan be damned if they actually put a team away.
Ben Wallace, after 36 minutes the night before, played over 47 tonight. From the opening tip you could tell it was going to be one of those games where he just really didn't feel like jumping. He did come up with some big plays near the end of the 4th and overtime, but it just emphasized how he should be sitting more often and saved for those spasms of competent play. Unfortunately Ben doesn't realize he's a corpse, so he's out chasing the ball at the 3 point line to make sure he was a step late on Lamarcus Aldridge jumpers.
(Uh oh, I said the secret word. Aldridge would be a good fit on this team, he shoots a lot of jumpers and doesn't rebound. In fact this Portland team is a lot like the Bulls in that it's just a bunch of jumpshooters and not much else. Except their defense isn't as good, and rebounding shouldn't be. Granted they were on the road and in the second of a back-to-back, but this looked like a team the Bulls should've blown out.)
Tyrus Thomas played 3 minutes, and was yanked for getting 2 fouls and getting hit in the mouth on the second of those, which was a pretty questionable call. He was promptly yanked, because you always yank a guy with 2 fouls even if he never plays enough minutes to foul out.
It's also in the NBA coaches handbook to never make substitutions in extra periods. They got you to that overtime, dag namit, you best make sure they are completely exhausted in that extra period, out of appreciation.
Games like this are why Nocioni has been called (by me, anyway) the dumbest player on the team. It's the intangibles that make him special, like leaving a 3 point shooter to rotate far too late on a Roy drive. See, Roy's passed the ball to the corner and Noc barely got touched, but damned if Noc didn't make sure to hit the deck anyway so he could watch the 3-pointer go in from the floor. It's that kind of thing that doesn't show up in the box score, no sir. Shooting 4-13 from the field does show up in the box score, however.
Speaking of our small forwards, Deng was hurt and missed the 2nd half (you could've said he missed the first with his performance). But why didn't Thabo dress?[sprained ankle -ed.] Why hasn't Griffin retired? Nothing says 'calming influence' like coming in committing 2 non-shooting fouls on Roy while the team's in the penalty. That dude is aloe he's so soothing.
An adage of hoops pundits is that a good team will get extra points at the end of periods. The Bulls suck at the end of periods, and games. Their plan is usually to give the ball to Ben Gordon and let him dribble a lot. Even if it's not the last possession and there's no incentive to run out the shot clock. And if you really want to add a wrinkle, send Ben Wallace out there to set a pick with 4 seconds left. Because that way your two options are Gordon shooting over two defenders, or a pass to Wallace 25 feet from the basket.
Chris Duhon: 1-6 in 26 minutes. And that 1 was on a goaltend. I especially liked waiting while the Blazers were on the ropes in the 3rd quarter to get Gordon in. We could've put them away with our real team out there, phew.
Joe Smith was the only true bright spot, but a reason that watching this team has become a joyless predictable exercise. They played Smith 45 minutes and relied on him (when not doing the patented Gordon play) to carry the team. And it's little coincidence that a team that needs Joe Smith to do this much is one that's this bad.
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Thabo was hurt
Had a sprained right ankle.
And I loved what Boylan said when comparing Aldridge and Thomas:
Thomas finished with two points and one rebound.
"When he's around the basket and active on both ends blocking shots and attacking the glass, he's a very good player," Boylan said. "When he drifts out on the perimeter, that's not his game."
Boylan's assessment of Aldridge?
"Aldridge may be the best running big man in the league," he said. "He changes ends every single time and runs hard."
Best running big man in the league . . . hmm, you think Boylan might have been trying to send a message to Thomas there?
barf barf barf
Fire Paxson then.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 3, 2008 11:42 PM CST up reply actions
Yup
And how, exactly, does all of that
Fixating on a player's "effort" and "running" is, IMO, a sign that the speaker is incapable of evaluating the nuances of a basketball game.
I mean, hell, put me out there...
I can't do anything else, but I'll sprint.
It's just such an unsophisticated, primitive benchmark.
It's reminds me of an moronic
Instead of making any tactical adjustments, he would just exhort his team to play harder. He'd scream and carry on, pound tables, excoriate the team for being pansies, and generally acted as if he could will the team to victory with desire.
Well, desire doesn't mean much if the players aren't in the proper alignment, or if they are playing goal line defense against a spread offense, or if the blocking schemes aren't right.
At some point, you have to make adjustments other than improved effort. Generatin mindless frenetic energy isn't coaching, it's cheerleading.
OK, I'll let it go now. I hope Tyus runs home from the UC to demonstrate his dedication.
What's funny . . .
speaking of
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 12:03 AM CST up reply actions
i was even thinking
the stickmen
BlogABull hall-of-famer Channing Frye even looked good.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 9:35 AM CST up reply actions
thats why Bulls lost
I know Deng was out, but when you have Thomas and Thabo on bench that could match the lineup of Portland, its criminal to not use them
then to make matters worse the Gordon, Duhon, AG lineup was totally undersized and with Noah/Wallace it had no scorers other then Gordon (Duhon looked to past every time of course and AG should never have been out there to start with)
by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 4, 2008 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
thanks for the info on Thabo
I was holding out hope he was traded :)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 3, 2008 11:45 PM CST up reply actions
More ruminations
As I mentioned in another thread, we are very constrained as to whom and when we can trade. It shouldn't be too long before Pax(Reinsdorf, Matt?) has to decide between making the playoffs and player development.
it's not mutual exclusion
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 12:08 AM CST up reply actions
Sooner or later (probably sooner)
This might just be a problem
::sniffles::
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 9:18 AM CST up reply actions
Bulls scored 40 in the 2nd half, btw
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 12:11 AM CST reply actions
Ben Wallace's per-40 minute stats:
Since Skiles got fired: 5.6 PTS, 10.3 REB.
How long before we hear Stephen A. Smith or some other idiot on ESPN blather on about how Wallace is "rejuvenated" since Skiles got fired? They'd better hurry, because Wallace is going to get hurt soon if he continues playing this many minutes.
Uh....
Everyone is saying he is one dimensional but guess what he can hit shots when it counts. I think Gordon and Smith scored over half our points and the rest of the team shot something like 30 percent. We need to gut this team.
by alee7805 on Jan 4, 2008 1:25 AM CST reply actions
Kirk did have his patented
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 9:18 AM CST up reply actions
I wondered whether anyone else remembered that
I threw things at the wall when Kirk mistook a 1 on 4 for a 4 on 1 fast break.
I would like to see
At least JamesOn
by Freethefro on Jan 4, 2008 7:11 AM CST up reply actions
Nocioni Quotes
"I PUT BALL IN BASKET WHEN COACH TELL ME TO. AFTER THROWING ELBOW THROUGH POSEY EYE SOCKET."
WTF, mates?
I almost want Skiles back. That's how bad losing tonight's game was.
Uf. This is even more frustrating than getting blown out by shitty teams. And why don't we not give the other team the last shot one of these days?
GENIUS!!!!
U rock dude! ( i am in no way being sarcastic, i truly think ure idea was genius, im wierd that way)
Uh....
I hope they win the next game, or else I think Bulls fandom might just rip all its hair out.
Wake me at the trade deadline
Nevertheless: even in "exciting" double overtime games, they are painfully dull to watch. An undersized, unathletic and poor-shooting team that tries to push the ball in transition. A geezer frontcourt paired with a munchkin backcourt. Andres Nocioni.
Bleh.
by Freethefro on Jan 4, 2008 7:04 AM CST reply actions
My thoughts exactly
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 9:31 AM CST up reply actions
well said
I hate Noce - he does two things: flops and shoots...neither of them does he do right
I hate Du - he does nothing
I hate Wallace - he only plays when he feels like it. I've never seen a player drop off so fast in a matter of two years.
I hate Hinrich - i'm sick of the media making excuses for him...he sucks, period. His defense is average at best. He can't make a shot when you need it...he's wack
I hate Boylan - how many times can you watch Noce fall down, be late on rotations, and take bad shots before you decide to pull him out?!? DAMMIT play Tyrus!
I hate Paxson - he put all of this mess together, go fire yourself!
The play calling sucks, the rotations suck, the lineups suck, the coaching sucks...every freaking thing just sucks
by ScottieCartwright on Jan 4, 2008 8:47 AM CST reply actions
Nocioni
Would it kill him not to flop at least ONE time?? I saw the same play that Matt mentioned, where he just flopped to the floor (Roy barely touched him by the way) and he left the 3-point shooter wide open for a shot. COME ON! If he was where he needed to be, maybe that basket is never made.
Even the shots that he makes are bad shots, they just happen to fall in. I counted ONE in-rhythm, "good" shot that he took last night. The rest were long threes, off-balance shots, rushed shots, just terrible, terrible offense.
Two years ago he was the fiery guy that was intense and picked up the team on defense, and would knock down good shots when you needed it. Now he's just out there flailing away with flopping, floundering and foolishness (try saying that 3 times fast).
I have no clue who they could get for him, I don't even care at this point, but I say trade him. He's useless in my eyes.
by ScottieCartwright on Jan 4, 2008 8:59 AM CST up reply actions
but you looooooovvvee BG
I'll come out
You and me both.
If they could get a more "complete" scorer, I'd be all for it.
complete scorer?
by alee7805 on Jan 4, 2008 5:08 PM CST up reply actions
true
He is the only key player on the team who can offset his deficiencies with another aspect of his game...all those other people I mentioned can't. When those other guys are struggling, they're just struggling. At least even if he's getting beat on the defensive end, he can make up for it by hitting shots.
by ScottieCartwright on Jan 4, 2008 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
pretty sure
shooting is more important than other things
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
sure shooting is important
I don't think people believe Gordon is flawless
And especially on this team that can't score!
So he may have as many flaws as others, but his flaws aren't as important. Duhon not being able to score is far more detrimental of a flaw, for instance.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not trying to rip on BG
he can play the last 30 seconds
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
A couple of
Bingo!
He takes shot he shouldn't take, but he makes a large part of them. Then he loses his guy on the defensive end a yields an open jumper. He drives down the lane and beats a guy with a sick crossover for a lay-in. Another time he picks up his dribble in a horrible spot and throws an awful up-for-grabs pass that's a turnover.
I mean, we wouldn't be in the game offensively without him, but he couldn't guard Jarret Jack or Steve Blake last night to save his life. The Aldrige-Jack pick & pop killed the Bulls in OT. Wallace kept switching out to Jack because Gordon couldn't get through the screen leaving Aldridge open.
Would we be in the position to need a last-second shot from BG if he played average NBA defense? Especially when 20,000 people know at the end it's going to be BG and no other.
(Side note; I thought the Bulls switched this up brilliantly by going to Joe Smith at the end of the 2nd OT with the Bulls down 3 after the BG turnover. Smith got fouled and his shot could have bounced in instead of out. The FT would have tied it. Who knows what would have happened).
It's just very difficult to quantify the sum of BG's contributions to the team because they are superlative on both ends of the the good-bad spectrum. I don't think a team with BG as the primary go-to guy can truly contend until BG trusts a teammate enough to pass off for a game winning shot instead of taking it all on himself.
Your statement is so true ...
Still, the Bulls need reliable (one or two) good starters that can deliver when called upon with a pass from BG....
so what your saying is
by alee7805 on Jan 4, 2008 5:10 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not saying
who said
Seriously though, I've said several times here that his defense sucks and that he turns the ball over too much...but who else is hitting shots??
by ScottieCartwright on Jan 4, 2008 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
Lu, Noc, Smith
last night
Noce 4-13
Kirk 5-18
Du 1-6
Wallce 4-11
wow, they were really on fire...
by ScottieCartwright on Jan 4, 2008 10:49 AM CST up reply actions
there are different degrees
I agree with you
well watching the Bulls
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions
there are as many h8ters as fanbois
doesn't make either of them right
The biggest problem with BG is not his height.
All the issues people are counting against Gordon are really issues that should be counted against the Bulls as a team. Their personnel deficiencies demand that Gordon play the role of Dwayne Wade, Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Tony Parker--all last minute guys, but with the difference that they are outrageously incredible ball handlers who can get wherever they want on the court whenever they want. Gordon is not one of those guys. They are all superstars. The fact that he fails in that role merely highlights the Bulls most glaring team defect.
Don't hate on Ben. It is misplaced. Listen to what almost every other NBA player (maybe ignore former top 50 `greats') says about him. He is a widely and highly respected player. Ben is great at what he does. It's the Bulls that are flawed.
I wish the coaching staff
THe problem being they fall so in love with this shooting ability that they forget his limitations and the Bulls fall into the late game trap of Ben trying to be facilitator/scorer.
Case in point, 90 percent of the game the Bulls start the ball with Hinrich or Duh and then run some sort screen to free up a player for a shot or one/one drive. Why do they keep relying on Ben to dribble out the entire shot clock and then shoot when it goes against what the Bulls are running all night? He shouldn't even be put into that position. It's so obvious what the Bulls do at the end of the game that you can pretty much predict that BG has a TO or throws up a wild shot. How many times will this happen before they try something new? THIS HAS BEEN HAPPENING FOR 3 YEARS NOW!
by RogersPark Kris on Jan 4, 2008 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
The reason BG
They need
You can give him the ball
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
you're right
Go Bulls!
by ScottieCartwright on Jan 4, 2008 2:17 PM CST up reply actions
I didn't say who
You're right, and I think part of that,
The bottom line is that it ends up being exactly what Scottie said it was: selfishness. The truth is he's just not a first option...but on the Bulls, who don't even have any other second options, he becomes, by default, their first option.
lol
by ScottieCartwright on Jan 4, 2008 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe you should
maybe you should
by ScottieCartwright on Jan 4, 2008 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
I don't really
like you said
Hopefully it eventually gets to a point where a game-ending shot to tie or win is no longer needed...how about that :-)
by ScottieCartwright on Jan 4, 2008 2:59 PM CST up reply actions
Uhhhh...
by Kemp on Jan 4, 2008 10:07 PM CST up reply actions
Front court matchups
Case in point, Portland found the hot hand in Travis Outlaw. He had the game of his life. He played PF for nearly the entire second half. In brief moments, McMillan subbed in Channing Frye for rebounding purposes, but as soon as Outlaw was rested he was right back in the game. Boylan decides to leave Joe Smith out there to guard Outlaw and keep Ben Wallace on Aldridge. Here's the gap.
Portland ran the high screen the entire second half. Outlaw and Aldridge rotated as the screeners. With Aldridge setting screens the Blazers were copying the play run by the Raptors against us with Bargnani and Jose Calderon. In this sequence, the ball handler is not looking to shoot from the perimeter at all. The primary goal of the ball handler is to dribble to the screen at center court and then flash out wide to the sideline to bait Ben Wallace. If Wallace is sagging towards the paint the guard will jab step towards Wallace to freeze him allowing the screener to roll to the opposite side of the paint for the wide open 18 footer. In the Toronto sequences, no Bull defender could recover and elevate to reach the release point of Bargnani to bother the shot. Take a wild guess as to how high Aldridge's release point is?
Portland would rotate the screener to Travis Outlaw who was tasked with the same movements as Aldridge but in addition he maintains the ability to dribble drive for a step back jumper. Joe Smith could not keep up with Outlaw to limit the penetration AND bother the jump shot. Considering how ineffective Ben Wallace was on offense missing layups, dunks, and getting pushed around by James Jones, this was the opportune time to sub either Noah or Thomas for Wallace. Joe Smith was highly efficient on offense and was giving us more defense last night as compared to a typical night. Smith and Wallace are in their 30s. Last night was the second of a back to back. You have to get the young legs on the floor when the opponents strategy is being executed as a result of the age the Bulls leave on the court.
Yes, it hurt not having Luol Deng in the 2nd half. But we were still up 10 in the 3rd quarter. The Blazers closed the 3rd quarter on a tear running the Outlaw high screen with Jack and Roy sharing the ball handling duties. Wallace was subbed out in this stretch for Noah, but he came in to guard Aldridge instead of Outlaw.
These are coaching errors. You know what your players can and can't do. The Blazers basically ran the same exact offense against Chicago that we effectively ran against the Bobcats to exploit their weakness in the front court. The difference is that Charlotte has nothing on their bench to make up for the exploitation. Chicago does have alternatives on their bench, but they have to be inserted into games and tasked with guarding the proper personnel.
on point
How many times can you watch Wallace and Smith go flying at Outlaw and Aldrige before you make some type of adjustment??
Why not go to a 3-2? It wasn't like Portland was killing them on the inside. Do something...do anything!
by ScottieCartwright on Jan 4, 2008 9:38 AM CST up reply actions
So Long Skiles
The opponent is out there with a silly red cape dangling it front the Bulls and over and over with try and buck it, but come up with nothing.
I wish United Center fans were more vocal. I wish they understood basketball more than "Kirk Hinrich is hot" and "Afros are cool". If I was in the front row I'd be coaching the Bulls from my seat.
what's funny about that
I agree in theory
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 9:56 AM CST up reply actions
Not smallball
Look at Ben and Joe. They were dominating the paint on defense. Joe had 4 blocks. Portland couldn't get very much in close. But away from the basket they lured the Chicago front court to defeat us.
Outlaw came in for Pryzb#$@!@$@
re: coaching philosophy
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 10:08 AM CST up reply actions
When is the Bulls breaking point for the season
How many losses before we start seeing a "buidling for the future" lineup of Thabo, Hinrich, Deng, TT, and Noah.
What I'm worried about is that even if the Bulls know that this season is a wash, are they forced to play Noc and Wallace tons of minutes in order to either justify their bloated contracts or simply to showcase their talents in case any team wants to pull the trigger on a trade.
by RogersPark Kris on Jan 4, 2008 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
For the 171,134th time!!!
for sure
by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 4, 2008 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
if they want to trade Noc or Wallace
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
building for the future
Is there
Maybe an unfair comparison because no Bulls guard's percentages come anywhere near RH who also gets many baskets on dunks, tip-ins and layups aside from his deadly jumper.
the worst part
judging by this staff's history
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 10:36 AM CST up reply actions
blazer fans are lucky
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 9:21 AM CST up reply actions
Not good character.
I realize Bill Simmons takes a lot of grief
Be that as it may, I think some of his columns are occasionally brilliant, and represent some of the best writing in the American sports comedy landscape. He wrote a piece a couple years ago about Tanith Belbin (U.S. Olympic ice dancer who is so beautiful it's hard even to look at her) that was one of the funniest sports pieces I've ever read.
He's usually at his best when his teams are going south and he's suffocating in personal angst...much like some of the talented writers on this site.
I read every one of Simmons columns
For instance, I couldn't care less about weekly NFL betting lines, so those columns are still great in my eyes.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 5:55 PM CST up reply actions
It's easy to be cocky
by RogersPark Kris on Jan 4, 2008 9:27 AM CST up reply actions
Everyone has posted the
The one thing I took away from this game, and it has been a pattern for the Bulls is the lack of "killer instinct". The Bulls could and should have put this Blazer team away, and it seemed that every time they had a chance, they took a jump shot (many wide-open) and missed. It is almost as if they are afraid to win. Yes, the substitution patterns were questionable at best, and no TT even in a back-to-back double overtime game is kind of ludicrous but it seemed to me that the Bulls are still finding ways to lose rather than putting teams away.
This is so true
year. They are playing A LOT closer
to their potential right now but that
still doesn't make them one of the elite
teams in the league. They don't so much
suck outright at the moment, they're back
to suffering from old ailments like lack
too much perimeter.
by Rusty LaRue on Jan 4, 2008 8:25 PM CST up reply actions
bias alert
fair warning, I will use this info to unfairly bash Hanley in the future.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 10:10 AM CST reply actions
Ugh.
Well, shit. If Boylan doesn't know why Tyrus isn't playing, then who the fuck does? What the hell is wrong with this franchise?
"He has an unlimited amount of potential,'' Trail Blazers coach Nate McMillan said of Aldridge. ''With his length being able to play inside and out, you've got somewhat of a Kevin Garnett-[Dirk] Nowitzki type of player that is capable of spreading a big player and taking advantage of a smaller player.
KG/DK? hahahahaha Oh, and I didn't realize there were so many small guys that played PF.
Boylan knows exactly why
He can say the same about Nocioni
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 10:26 AM CST up reply actions
and I don't think we should give these mopes
The edict is 'play veterans'. That's the reason for all of this, nothing really deeper to look into.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
Ditto
The Bulls were
hahahah
Actually they were
Duh. That's right.
I never thought I would say this
Even in the down years, I kind of enjoyed watching them because of seeing Eddy and Tyson grow even though the Bulls still sucked.
Now, I'm left watching no growth at all. Just lame coaching
Wow
Certainly the Bulls are going no where this year, and where will starters like Joe Smith, Ben Wallace and Duhon take this team in two years?
When an organism stops growing, many say it begins to die.
I'ts like watching a worm dry up on a sunny day.
right, and worse
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 4:39 PM CST up reply actions
I was at the game
Ben Wallace is worthless. His bursts of good defense do not make up for his terrible offense. Think about it like this: if Wallace hits anything other than 0% in regulation from the FT line in the Orlando or Portland games, there is no OT and the Bulls win. Put another way, if he shoots 33% from the floor in the Orlando game and 45% in the Portland game, the Bulls win. Remember that most of Big Ben's shots are around the rim. It's not like he's taking 15 footers. On one play last night, the rim blocked an uncontested layup from Wallace. Are you kidding me?!
Duhon is worthless. He was 1-6 last night with his only basket a goaltend. On Monday, he was 0-6 from the floor and 1-3 from the line. Again, if he hits 66% from the FT line in the Magic game, the Bulls win.
These players are getting way too many minutes. Wallace should play 25 minutes a game MAX. Duhon should relieve Gordon or Hinrich only when there are other REAL scorers on the floor. My main problem with Skiles was his lousy lineups. Sadly, Boylan is continuing with this terrible tradition.
Wallace's FTs
But this thing where he can't jump high enough to finish anymore. That's a HUGE problem. His 'offense' was still workable because he could catch, pass, and finish. He can't even finish anymore, and it's a really big issue. He's still shooting 33.5% which is historically low for him.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
flat early
If you can't box out James Jones what the hell are you doing on the floor?
I can't wait for the first 4 in 5 games for Boylan ON THE ROAD. Nightmares!
by NBA Observer on Jan 4, 2008 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
it's not even a mystery why he was flat
Boylan should've recognized that it was more than likely Wallace was due for a stinker. And when the early indication was there, limited his minutes.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
Boxing out
Wallace never really boxed out
Noc gets most of his rebounds jumping on teammates' backs.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 11:30 AM CST up reply actions
exactly
What is untolerable are the several missed layups and dunks.
If he hit all of his around-the-rim attempts per game, my guess is he probably would be averaging double figures in points.
by ScottieCartwright on Jan 4, 2008 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
50%
by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 4, 2008 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe this is a small point,
Oh and another point
Well maybe the Bulls should now turn the tables and realize the only reason that Portland's youngsters are getting so much better is because last season. They played the shit outta them.
Guards are weak
by Zac23 on Jan 4, 2008 11:13 AM CST reply actions
too busy with that dartboard
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
Negativity
I've got no problem with a good discussion about tactics, but all this mourning and whining is just lame.
The lack of expectations is more depressing
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 11:32 AM CST up reply actions
I don't mind finishing 32-50.
Oh, and Tyrus learns his lesson.
I just want
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
my dream
nothing like seeing Noc, Duhon and Kirk miss open shots (all of them seemed short) in the 2nd half
by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 4, 2008 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
Thank You
Huh?
and
We don't know what goes on in practice.
Okay then.
Jim Boylan said
I wonder if...
yeah ur right it's frustrating, hear is my plan th
Trade Nocioni
"They are both good teams"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
ding ding ding.
"Ben Wallace's per-40 minute stats:
With Skiles: 5.2 PTS, 10.8 REB.
Since Skiles got fired: 5.6 PTS, 10.3 REB.
How long before we hear Stephen A. Smith or some other ..."
shared misery
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 11:40 AM CST reply actions
That guy says Aldridge would have been bad.
He called LMA a scrappy rebounder. Heh. I think he meant in a derogatory way, too.
Charlie V
He'd work well in a place like Phoenix.
by KT on Jan 4, 2008 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
Phoenix
But yes, Charlie V needs an uptempo team. Too bad he got traded from Toronto before they adopted the 7 second shot clock.
Charlie V trade
And it's worked out well for both
TJ is fragile, fragile, fragile. I wish, for his sake, he'd quit playing before he risks more than a career ending injury.
The Bucks just have a poorly constructed team with too many holes to hide players deficiencies.
by KT on Jan 4, 2008 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
worst fans ever
Come on!!!
Except for maybe Luol.... you are destroying all the team!! The team we loves not so long ago!
yes Duhon is a liability on offense....but he doesnt turn the ball over and doesnt take many shots (Spurs were champions with the lesser and older Vaughn playing important minutes)
yes Hinrich is shooting like crap...but he does a lot of things well, he is a complete guard.... he helps even when his shots are not going in....
yes Gordon can only score..... but isnt that what the bulls need? of course he struggles sometimes... thats because he is a jumpshooter, Ray allen and Michael Redd also have bad strings of games !!
yes Nocioni makes mistakes and his shot isnt falling lately..... but he makes mistakes (and a lot of times he does great plays) because he CARES, he plays with HEART all the time. Right now he is in a shooting slump.... but not long ago he was the only guy hitting shots on the roster!
YEs Ben Wallace is old and tired.... but its not his fault that the coaches put him 40 mins a night!!
COME ON GUYS, support the team that we have.... its a talented bunch with room to grow, its the same team as last year but with more talented young players
I hope the team bus
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
oh god
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
because there aren't any
I'm close.
Another "TRY HARDER" tactic by Boylan? Skiles couldn't "get through" to Thomas? Boylan tries harder by sitting him more and yanking him quicker. BRILLIANT!!!
I'm quitting on this franchise since it quit on me.
We'd bench him, too
The focus of the negativity on B.A.B. this year
not true
Not true x 2!
go look at all the Du/Hinrich/Noc/Wallace/Deng hater comments They're usually about saying those guys could be effective if played less.
Some are well-founded, but most aren't. Right! Noc is a great defender, Du is excellent on offense, Wallace tries hard all the time!!! Woot!!11!!1!!
I said "refers back to"
Kirk - he is getting run into the ground guarding the other team scorer and trying to run the offense. I like that Boylan is getting the ball out of his hands.
Duhon- he is viewed as a very capable backup, but the haters come on when he is overused; especially with the small ball lineups.
Wallace - is on the downside of his career. He was brought here for playoff experience and accoutability, but he shouldn't be playing 47 minutes in a game. The haters know this and are discusted that his overplaying is coming at the youngerster expense.
Noce - He should be coached to stop chucking so much and learn where to stand on defense. The 5 years contract is another story.
Deng- not sure he has any hater here???
I've found it harder...
Winning does cure most crankiness, but this year it feels like crankiness wins out for wins and losses the same. I'll probably be taking a break from here to see if I can at least enjoy the rest of the season. Only one team wins the championship each year and it is pretty clear it won't be the Bulls. With that in mind I think it is possible to at least enjoy watching the games, but for me I'll have to stop analyzing everything so much to do so.
to continue
Wallace was brought to Chicago to be the team leader. This team has no leader.
I regret watching that game. F'in'A
by chicago-homesick-blues on Jan 4, 2008 12:28 PM CST reply actions
Would Damon Stoudamire be a temp. improvement
link works
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 1:31 PM CST up reply actions
in that second variation
Didn't see the second one.
You've got to be brave....
gotten yanked after those fouls, thats the
fifth or sixth time this season he's come in
and played like ass in just a few minutes. This stint was better I guess in that he didn't sandwich those fouls around a stupid turnover so I guess thats the improvement your looking for.
You guys pumpin' Tyrus remind me of all the Jamal Crawford supporters. Its not going to happen for this guy for a long long long time if ever. I mean if you really think he ought to be getting more pt then you must still be torn up over E-Rob's release too. He came out waaayyyy too soon. Wayyy too soon.
by Rusty LaRue on Jan 4, 2008 1:57 PM CST reply actions
Does anybody else feel like
First posession
He made a jumpshot a few posessions later.
Now cherry-picking good things isn't the fullest evaluation, but I don't get how he had a 'bad' stint. Don't see the turnover you mentioned on the Play-by-Play. The 2nd foul was on a loose ball and it was a questionable call (as I mentioned in the recap).
It was 3 minutes for chrissakes.
(not that I'm replying to you specifically since your comments don't deserve it, but it's been said a couple times)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
I wanted to respond...
did you hear Collins
That Thomas was so intent on getting better...
I don't care if he opens each film session
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 3:27 PM CST up reply actions
I don't get it.
You really want to just throw him out there, even if it's one step forward and two steps back for the team? Just "roll it out an' let 'em recreate"? He'll "effect the game" all right, but not necessarily in a positive way.
If Tyrus isn't going to do what he's asked to do, the only carrot a coach has is PT. He can't affect compensation directly. It's not college so he won't make him run till he can't eat supper.
Now, he should get more PT than he's getting. Ceratinly there's no need for Wallace & Smith to play the minutes they did last night with Tyrus, Noah and Gray barely breaking a sweat. But I don't think he should be the first 3 or 4 off the bench until he does what he's asked. All 5 guys need to be on the same page, or else it all just breaksdown.
well it worked in the 2nd half last season
He's effective, and restricting PT isn't making him better, so maybe just giving him the minutes will. It may make Sam Smith sad, but I don't care.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 4:12 PM CST up reply actions
excellent point
Perhaps I've been drinking too much Pax/Skiles/Boylan "coach-speak" kool-aid. There must be something else less obvious going on behind the scenes that is limiting that PT. He doesn't need to start, but the 4th overall pick should get more than 3-4 mpg over 5 games.
That said, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for anything other than a culture of discipline and accountability under Paxson.
If your definition of
When he played heavier minutes last year
he was the same guy he is right now. Wildly
inconsistent, mistake prone, TO prone, and
foul prone. Yes sometimes he does stuff
that make your eyes pop out of your head
but the NBA isn't an And 1 Mix Tape.
He doesn't deserve to be playing ahead
of Noah or Gray right now and they're
got a much better chance of salvaging this season if they ride Smith for all he's worth. So...find me a justification for giving the guy more minutes.
If they bag it and start rebuilding with trades then I'd say hell yes start playing TT but his on the court development isn't a luxury this team can afford while they still have aspirations of making noise in the playoffs. Its hard to imagine what you're looking at that leads you to a different conclusion.
by Rusty LaRue on Jan 4, 2008 5:26 PM CST up reply actions
TT detractors keep arguing that
If it weren't
in the NBA so thats all he brings
to the table right now.
by Rusty LaRue on Jan 4, 2008 6:39 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, but he uses that
Hit reply too soon....
When you talk about TT's fundamentals do you
mean to say that you're watching a guy that
spaces himself correctly, knows where to stand,
comes hard to screens, cuts sharp, rotates
correctly, sees the court well?? Of course
you don't because he does none of those things
and they are ALL things he should be able to
do regardless of playing time. Both Noah and
Gray do and they just got here so the "TT is
withering on the bench" thing just doesn't
wash. He's earned every minute he's spending
on the bench. Haven't we learned what happens
when you pass out minutes on potential??
by Rusty LaRue on Jan 4, 2008 6:52 PM CST up reply actions
How's it possible to
I want to see
like matt said
maybe maybe not.
TT got PT
And while 20 mpg is a stretch IMO, I completely agree that he's getting no better on the bench.
I think we're giving the staff too much credit
I think it's just aversion to mistakes. Vets mean fewer mistakes.
Hanley makes a special mention of the Assist/TO ratio of Kirk&Duh since the big lineup change. Clearly a lack of turnovers is more benefitial than points.
Tyrus turns over the ball and fouls, so he sits. I think it's more about that than effort.
And just as stupid of a reason, but consistent with the 'to .500, ahoy!' policy.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 3:39 PM CST up reply actions
It wasn't Thomas committing the TOs though.
maybe the problem is
could it be that Bulls (and maybe many teams) think they are smart enough and know enough about basketball that they don't have to listen to stats and reason when setting lineups and playing rotations? which would mean what some blogabullers see as obvious facts (like Thomas was a positive last year when he got playing time) the Bulls coaching/management is not able to see because they don't listen and study statistics?
don't get me wrong I'm sure they have a statician and look at everything somewhat but I would love to know how much they make decisions based on stats?
by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 4, 2008 4:20 PM CST up reply actions
didn't he lose the spot after 3 games, too?
That's the even sadder part, his turnovers have been down this season. Maybe they don't look at actual turnovers, but 'mental mistakes' or some other concept solely created to punish Tyrus and nobody else.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 4:33 PM CST up reply actions
he started the first 11 games
He sure didn't contribute very much.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/stats?team=chi&seasonYear=2008&season=2&sort=pts& ;order=true&avg=pg&split=40
Hinrich, Gordon, and Wallace were by far the biggest reasons for the poor start. Thomas is far down the list of responsibility.
Those guys are also playing much better
So now Tyrus is responsible
Don't discount Joe Smith's calming influence
Joe Smith's minutes are fine.
Smith has only averaged 24 minutes with Boylan. Boylan's done a great job rotating the whoever is hot at the four. One game it's Noah, another it's Gray (sort of), another Nocioni, another Smith (he hasn't given THomas a chance yet). Wallace has playing 36 minutes per 48 since last week. If he were down to 24/25, he'd be a lot more effective and Thomas and Noah could play more.
he was benched after game 6
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 6:19 PM CST up reply actions
He's started 11 games this year
Dunno why
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2008 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
Skiles went back to starting him
I guess with this comment...
No I'm not.
Boylan's two biggest problems are that he doesn't sit Wallace enough and he rides players that do well too long (as you mentioned). Nocioni is the first big off the bench which I don't like, but it does bring offense when the team is typically behind. After that, he's limited Noc's minutes (25 mpg) and Smith's (25 incl. yesterday/19-24 before that) when Noah or Gray has done better. Wallace is playing 40.
The other problem is that Thomas has not played once in two games and has only gotten one chance in the other three games. It's pretty ridiculous to think that a coach can know how good a player is going to be a for a full game based off of three to five minutes of game time.
In my book wanting to be .500 with a team that is better than that is "Not having a clue." Also, not playing your potentially biggest "difference maker" in favor of aging vets is also not having a clue.
Unlike you...
He didn't have
Sarcasm.
He got three minutes because thats the pt he
deserves right now. If you wanna make the argument that two different coaches now have failed to see the genius you think the guy posses then knock yourself out. I'd love to hear it.
The fact is that both Noah and Gray are miles ahead of this guy as far as knowing what the hell is going on and how they contribute to it. That much has been plain since training camp.
The truth is that TT is a verrrrryyy limited player right now and the window of opportunity
for him to contribute is wafer thin, hence
the bench time. It doesn't matter how athletic he is if he can't consistently run the offense and is woefully confused on defense. Thems the facts.
by Rusty LaRue on Jan 4, 2008 4:35 PM CST up reply actions
TT
it's just an honor to be nominated
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
Matt - 2nd team
I was just thinking...
Hate to sunshine on this soggy parade
Delusional, you say? Then I ask, did the Kansas Jayhawks football team not just win a BCS bowl? And you say miracles don't happen!
Maybe it comes from typically cheering for the underdog, but much as I want all these guys to do well because, after all, they are "my" guys - at the end of the day it's still entertainment. And in sports (unless you're Boston, apparently), it can typically always get better or always get worse.
this team is the favorite
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 3:40 PM CST up reply actions
It's the attitude that comes from pulling for
Unlike many of you, I've never had one of my teams win a championship, although KU has come close. Maybe I'm better off for it, because I don't feel nearly as miserable as you all sound.
Cubs
add
One does get spoiled
Building a winner has a lot to do with getting a top three pick in a year where you get players like Wade, LeBron and Carmelo Anthony, so you have to suck a lot first to have a shot at being really good.
Then you have to use those picks wisely. Krause really screwed this team in the years after MJ's retirement, trading players he should have kept (Brand, Miller) for risky choices.
by KT on Jan 4, 2008 6:26 PM CST up reply actions
Oh, and
Maybe not after last night,
You are a Cubs fan.
I'm also
It's a Badger/hawkeye game day tomorrow!
Of course, the badgers will win.
by KT on Jan 4, 2008 6:16 PM CST up reply actions
Hope they
I"m jealous
I'd like to ask Wayne what the heck is going on with the Bulls, maybe I'll go hang around the Kohl Center and see if he'll talk.
by KT on Jan 4, 2008 6:29 PM CST up reply actions
Tell him inquiring
While we are all complaining...
If Tyrus stayed in Portland
Why?
Is it just me
Imagine hinrich if he had been drafted by Miami instead of wade...Imagine if BG or Deng played for the suns, imagine tyrus in portland, imagine noah in sacramento....
Most top drafts
While I am puzzled by the extremes of how little we play our picks, these are picks that a team of, well, last year's caliber, shouldn't have gotten and only did through the grace and stupidity of New York.
If one of our top picks had magically gone to a team like the Pistons in a similar New York situation they'd have to work their way off the bench too likely since the Pistons have a lot of good players already solidified in certain positions. In our situation we have Thomas and Noah who are both very talented...but have a guy like Wallace in the way. The way he has been playing doesn't seem to give him the same rights to top minutes that actual good players should get but it has been the case anyway.
Well said.
Tyrus has done nothing wrong.
Tyrus didn't "obviously" do something wrong. Even when Skiles hated him, he still played him, most of the time. It's not some big mistake, but the little ones in a game.
Limiting mistakes is good, but it's not the end-all be-all. Think of it like USC and Illinois. If Illinois didn't make any mistakes, they could hang. But once they did, they were so outmatched that they didn't stand a chance. USC, on the other hand, has such superior skill and athleticism (and whatever else), that they can afford little mistakes here and there and still come out ahead.
Jim Boylan is scared of "X Factors" or whatever you want to call him. Give him something safe and he'll at least be close at the end. You won't win more than you lose, but at least you'll be close. Portland, OTOH, playing the 'more-talented' youngsters, will lose 10 of 14 and look like crap, but then win 14 of 15 and make everyone think they're the next great team.
So I guess it depends on what you want: steady every night with no hope of being better than average, or inconsistency with the chance to be great. That's pretty much what all the arguments come down to on this site.
Or to make it three -
A trade is pointless right now with this coaching
It is pointless
A trade is pointless now because
K. C.
then simplify the playbook
Interesting
Oops.
From what I saw and read
There are plenty of ways of successfully playing a guy who doesn't have a good understanding of "the right way to play the game", but there aren't plenty of ways of getting blood from a stone.
The optimal word is "Year".
Brings to mind
I'm sorry, I just don't buy that.
Let me ask this (to bullshooter, too): When he starts out hot, why doesn't he have great games all the time? Because he'll have his mental lapses or whatever somewhere in there.
Thomas is a flawed player, for sure. But he's also an exceptionally-gifted player. More often that not, when he gets extended playing time (even when he doesn't, really), his positives outweigh his negatives. Sometimes he has whole bad games, which, I'd like to think, that most of you understand is not unique in the NBA. Sometimes he has great games, like against Detroit. The ONLY way to get the great games to come more often than the average/bad games is to play him more.
Everyone is retroactively looking for excuses. The only thing that I'll buy that may have been a big change is that Tyrus has given up on this team because it fucked him. I totally understand that. If the bulls want to be a mediocre team, fuck 'em, he can go play somewhere else if they don't want him.
Sadly
at all!
You can use any
Maybe (my speculations) after Skiles made an ass (IMO) of himself by calling out TT and Noah to the media and then apologized (whether being told to or not) decided nothing would be said about the young guys to the media and maybe Boylan has adopted this too. Maybe it is something embarrassing to TT and they are trying to protect him from ridicule from the media (Sam Smith), fans, etc. as to why he isn't.
There ya go. My speculation is just as far fetched and ridiculous as yours.
If you look at TT's numbers from Nov
On Comcast
Wait...
by Kemp on Jan 4, 2008 10:10 PM CST reply actions
This is Paxson's fault
The fact that you dont have a post presence only magnifies the problems created by the lack of shooters. You saw portland use the zone succesfully because you have no way to beat it, they pack it inside and make joe smith or others shoot over the top, thats what the blazers wanted. No post presence means they can single cover down low and fill in the lanes so Gordan and Deng cant get what they want.
Paxson was too stubborn to trade for Pau, to stubborn for Zach(not that he would have helped), and to stubborn to go after Kobe. He hasnt made a right move since before Ben Wallace was signed. Every team needs tweaking and tuning, especially if your team's biggest accomplishment is a 2nd round exit in the eastern conference playoffs. Paxson needs to shake up the roster, but refuses. I would start by getting a shooter. Blame Paxson.
So, you must have
According to sportcenter
Besides, I wasnt ridiculing Paxson on the sole reason that he didnt trade for post help or Kobe. I am just saying he should have done something besides drafting young projects in tryus and Noah. Joe smith is a nice aquisition, if his role is 15 minutes off the bench, bringing him in as a starter is a failure by Paxson, he should have done better than that...
I can't cite a source
I do kind of remember that
Just wait till you see the Sportscenter highlight
Sue, I almost hate to show you this
''It's tough, I'm not going to lie,'' Gordon said of teams knowing he is the Bulls' go-to guy. ''We just have to figure out some other options. Because at the end of games, it's pretty easy to cover something if you know it's coming. As a team, I think we just have to help each other and try to catch teams off guard a little.''
It's also
hmm
So what?
- By moving properly they can give him a higher likelihood of an open shot
- And they can get in position to make a shot if Gordon can pass but not shoot.
No
Ben "wanting to give up the ball" can't be a prerequisite to other guys being in position to get the ball.
If no one is in position to get the ball (or it's Ben Wallace out at the 3 point line like it was last night, which is pretty much the same thing), we can't know whether Ben "wants" to give it up or not because he can't.
On the other hand, if the other guys were moving and getting open, then it's pretty easy to look at the play (or a series of them, realistically) and see whether Gordon is doing the right thing.
In short, it's unfair and illogical to accuse a guy of being selfish because of his handling of a situation where he made the correct basketball play (albeit poorly executed). Put him in a situation where he's passing up a good pass to an open teammate and I'll buy it. Far as I can see though, that's not been the case.
The play is designed to keep everyone
thats your problem
that's BG's problem
ah I see
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