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Bulls-Blazers postgame venting thread

Blogabull_s_tiny by your friendly BullsBlogger on in News Comment 317 comments

They had a lineup at one point of Duhon/Gordon/Griffin/Noah/Wallace. Because there was a lead to protect, and Boylan be damned if they actually put a team away.

Ben Wallace, after 36 minutes the night before, played over 47 tonight. From the opening tip you could tell it was going to be one of those games where he just really didn't feel like jumping. He did come up with some big plays near the end of the 4th and overtime, but it just emphasized how he should be sitting more often and saved for those  spasms of competent play. Unfortunately Ben doesn't realize he's a corpse, so he's out chasing the ball at the 3 point line to make sure he was a step late on Lamarcus Aldridge jumpers.

(Uh oh, I said the secret word. Aldridge would be a good fit on this team, he shoots a lot of jumpers and doesn't rebound. In fact this Portland team is a lot like the Bulls in that it's just a bunch of jumpshooters and not much else. Except their defense isn't as good, and rebounding shouldn't be. Granted they were on the road and in the second of a back-to-back, but this looked like a team the Bulls should've blown out.)

Tyrus Thomas played 3 minutes, and was yanked for getting 2 fouls and getting hit in the mouth on the second of those, which was a pretty questionable call. He was promptly yanked, because you always yank a guy with 2 fouls even if he never plays enough minutes to foul out.

It's also in the NBA coaches handbook to never make substitutions in extra periods. They got you to that overtime, dag namit, you best make sure they are completely exhausted in that extra period, out of appreciation.

Games like this are why Nocioni has been called (by me, anyway) the dumbest player on the team. It's the intangibles that make him special, like leaving a 3 point shooter to rotate far too late on a Roy drive. See, Roy's passed the ball to the corner and Noc barely got touched, but damned if Noc didn't make sure to hit the deck anyway so he could watch the 3-pointer go in from the floor. It's that kind of thing that doesn't show up in the box score, no sir. Shooting 4-13 from the field does show up in the box score, however.

Speaking of our small forwards, Deng was hurt and missed the 2nd half (you could've said he missed the first with his performance). But why didn't Thabo dress?[sprained ankle -ed.] Why hasn't Griffin retired? Nothing says 'calming influence' like coming in committing 2 non-shooting fouls on Roy while the team's in the penalty. That dude is aloe he's so soothing.

An adage of hoops pundits is that a good team will get extra points at the end of periods. The Bulls suck at the end of periods, and games. Their plan is usually to give the ball to Ben Gordon and let him dribble a lot. Even if it's not the last possession and there's no incentive to run out the shot clock. And if you really want to add a wrinkle, send Ben Wallace out there to set a pick with 4 seconds left. Because that way your two options are Gordon shooting over two defenders, or a pass to Wallace 25 feet from the basket.

Chris Duhon: 1-6 in 26 minutes. And that 1 was on a goaltend. I especially liked waiting while the Blazers were on the ropes in the 3rd quarter to get Gordon in. We could've put them away with our real team out there, phew.

Joe Smith was the only true bright spot, but a reason that watching this team has become a joyless predictable exercise. They played Smith 45 minutes and relied on him (when not doing the patented Gordon play) to carry the team. And it's little coincidence that a team that needs Joe Smith to do this much is one that's this bad.

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Simply put
Perfect recap . . .

Everything I had thought, you wrote

by Option27 on Jan 3, 2008 11:24 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree
I just got back from the game, and made a comment in the game thread, saying a few similar things to this..

by Jaina on Jan 3, 2008 11:26 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thabo was hurt
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-080103chicagobullsbits,1,67080.st ory?coll=cs-home-headlines

Had a sprained right ankle.  

And I loved what Boylan said when comparing Aldridge and Thomas:

Thomas entered to solid applause at the 10:05 mark of the second quarter for Luol Deng, whose left Achilles tightened up. Thomas left shortly thereafter with a bloodied mouth.

Thomas finished with two points and one rebound.

"When he's around the basket and active on both ends blocking shots and attacking the glass, he's a very good player," Boylan said. "When he drifts out on the perimeter, that's not his game."

Boylan's assessment of Aldridge?

"Aldridge may be the best running big man in the league," he said. "He changes ends every single time and runs hard."

Best running big man in the league . . . hmm, you think Boylan might have been trying to send a message to Thomas there?

by Big D on Jan 3, 2008 11:39 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yup
If Tyrus really is that lazy, then the Bulls seriously fucked up taking him ahead of Brandon Roy and LaMarcus Aldridge.  If it has more to do with personality issues than effort, than the Bulls are idiots for not playing him more.  Either way, the Bulls are idiots, so take your pick.

by Big D on Jan 3, 2008 11:56 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And how, exactly, does all of that
hard running benefit Aldridge or Portland? I don't remember him getting any transition baskets? Or making any plays on defense in transition?

Fixating on a player's "effort" and "running" is, IMO, a sign that the speaker is incapable of evaluating the nuances of a basketball game.

"We goin' to the 'ship!" - LSU IS IN THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP!

by 1958ChiTown on Jan 3, 2008 11:43 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I mean, hell, put me out there...
I'll run my ass off from end to end.

I can't do anything else, but I'll sprint.

It's just such an unsophisticated, primitive benchmark.

"We goin' to the 'ship!" - LSU IS IN THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP!

by 1958ChiTown on Jan 3, 2008 11:45 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's reminds me of an moronic
football coach I once knew.

Instead of making any tactical adjustments, he would just exhort his team to play harder. He'd scream and carry on, pound tables, excoriate the team for being pansies, and generally acted as if he could will the team to victory with desire.

Well, desire doesn't mean much if the players aren't in the proper alignment, or if they are playing goal line defense against a spread offense, or if the blocking schemes aren't right.

At some point, you have to make adjustments other than improved effort. Generatin mindless frenetic energy isn't coaching, it's cheerleading.

OK, I'll let it go now. I hope Tyus runs home from the UC to demonstrate his dedication.

"We goin' to the 'ship!" - LSU IS IN THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP!

by 1958ChiTown on Jan 3, 2008 11:51 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What's funny . . .
Is that Tyrus at half-speed is still faster than Aaron Gray running at full speed.

by Big D on Jan 3, 2008 11:58 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

speaking of
I guess Boylan gets the kudos for having Noah ahead of Gray in the rotation tonight after last night. Unfortunately Noah didn't do anything of note.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 12:03 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i was even thinking
maybe gray could score a few points against these stickmen in the 3rd. JP barely played in the 2nd half.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Jan 4, 2008 9:30 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the stickmen
were still holding their own on the boards too. It was pathetic.

BlogABull hall-of-famer Channing Frye even looked good.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 9:35 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

thats why Bulls lost
Blazers went to their athletic lineup with no size and lots of shooters and Bulls stick with Wallace and Smith too much, this was the perfect matchup for Thomas

I know Deng was out, but when you have Thomas and Thabo on bench that could match the lineup of Portland, its criminal to not use them

then to make matters worse the Gordon, Duhon, AG lineup was totally undersized and with Noah/Wallace it had no scorers other then Gordon (Duhon looked to past every time of course and AG should never have been out there to start with)

by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 4, 2008 12:18 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

thanks for the info on Thabo
I updated the post.

I was holding out hope he was traded :)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 3, 2008 11:45 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

More ruminations
I have another comparison.  AI:Philadelphia as ___:Chicago.  I wonder if Denver could use BG.  But who would we want from Denver?

As I mentioned in another thread, we are very constrained as to whom and when we can trade.  It shouldn't be too long before Pax(Reinsdorf, Matt?) has to decide between making the playoffs and player development.

by hlac on Jan 4, 2008 12:05 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it's not mutual exclusion
Riding Wallace and Smith into the ground does neither for each outcome.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 12:08 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sooner or later (probably sooner)
Either Smith or Wallace will get hurt. Then, presumably, Boylan will have no choice but to play Tyrus.  Sad to say, that's all we have to look forward to at this point.

by vanillablue on Jan 4, 2008 12:35 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This might just be a problem
that can be solved by jumping.  
"Fans never fall asleep at our games, because they're afraid they might get hit by a pass." -George Raveling

by cubbybear on Jan 4, 2008 2:22 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

::sniffles::
remember when we had that exciting young player?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 9:18 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bulls scored 40 in the 2nd half, btw
(just wanted to comment again to say how much I hate watching this team right now.)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 12:11 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ben Wallace's per-40 minute stats:
With Skiles: 5.2 PTS, 10.8 REB.
Since Skiles got fired: 5.6 PTS, 10.3 REB.

How long before we hear Stephen A. Smith or some other idiot on ESPN blather on about how Wallace is "rejuvenated" since Skiles got fired?  They'd better hurry, because Wallace is going to get hurt soon if he continues playing this many minutes.

by Big D on Jan 4, 2008 12:54 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Uh....
Did anyone see Kirk Hinrich play tonight? When he wasnt busy getting schooled by Brandon Roy (who he had no business guarding in the first place) his shooting was ATROCIOUS. He must have missed the last 10 shots he took and most of em weren't even good shots. Ditto for Noce Luol Deng has no heart. Joe Smith scoring 30 points for any team is no good. And for all the people pining to trade Ben Gordon, if he wasnt on the team we wouldnt score 80 points a game.
Everyone is saying he is one dimensional but guess what he can hit shots when it counts. I think Gordon and Smith scored over half our points and the rest of the team shot something like 30 percent. We need to gut this team.

by alee7805 on Jan 4, 2008 1:25 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Kirk did have his patented
dribble-to-the-elbow-with-all-of-your-teammates-behind-you -and-brick-a-jumper move

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 9:18 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wondered whether anyone else remembered that
or everyone had just blocked it from their memory.

I threw things at the wall when Kirk mistook a 1 on 4 for a 4 on 1 fast break.

Where's Tyrus?

by cubbybear on Jan 4, 2008 4:03 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would like to see
JamesOn and Thabo play together.

by eross226 on Jan 4, 2008 1:40 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

At least JamesOn
can do that "ball-into-basket" thing.  Which Duhon cannot.

by Freethefro on Jan 4, 2008 7:11 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nocioni Quotes
Asian Ace, where are you.

"I PUT BALL IN BASKET WHEN COACH TELL ME TO.  AFTER THROWING ELBOW THROUGH POSEY EYE SOCKET."

Where's Tyrus?

by cubbybear on Jan 4, 2008 4:04 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

WTF, mates?
While watching the game tonight, my dad proposed that Duhon has dirt on everyone in the organization.  otherwise, his plethora or playing time wouldn't make sense.

I almost want Skiles back.  That's how bad losing tonight's game was.

Uf.  This is even more frustrating than getting blown out by shitty teams.  And why don't we not give the other team the last shot one of these days?

"Fans never fall asleep at our games, because they're afraid they might get hit by a pass." -George Raveling

by cubbybear on Jan 4, 2008 2:19 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

GENIUS!!!!
Im not sure why i never thought about that, the best way to prevent gordon from doing his jordan impression is probably to make sure that were up by two and the other team has to hit the final shot.....Seriously thats so simple it may work.

U rock dude! ( i am in no way being sarcastic, i truly think ure idea was genius, im wierd that way)

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jan 4, 2008 2:48 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Uh....
I think what I mean is that if you tie the game up on your last possession, as we did once in this game, it is easier to win if you don't give the other team the chance to have a possession.  If you don't make the shot, the game ends, but if you do, it's OT because they don't have a chance to retort.  This also was bad for Kirk fouling too early, and allowing 5 seconds for a possession.  This has been done numerous times in this and the orlando game.

I hope they win the next game, or else I think Bulls fandom might just rip all its hair out.

Where's Tyrus?

by cubbybear on Jan 4, 2008 3:30 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wake me at the trade deadline
The Bulls might not be the worst team in the league, but they just might be the most boring.  How's that for a cheeseball NBA.com lead-in for you?

Nevertheless: even in "exciting" double overtime games, they are painfully dull to watch.  An undersized, unathletic and poor-shooting team that tries to push the ball in transition.  A geezer frontcourt paired with a munchkin backcourt.  Andres Nocioni.

Bleh.

 

by Freethefro on Jan 4, 2008 7:04 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My thoughts exactly
The only fun left is predicting the shitty play and then laughing at it when it occurs.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 9:31 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well said
Now for my best joejoe imitation:

I hate Noce - he does two things:  flops and shoots...neither of them does he do right

I hate Du - he does nothing

I hate Wallace - he only plays when he feels like it.  I've never seen a player drop off so fast in a matter of two years.

I hate Hinrich - i'm sick of the media making excuses for him...he sucks, period.  His defense is average at best.  He can't make a shot when you need it...he's wack

I hate Boylan - how many times can you watch Noce fall down, be late on rotations, and take bad shots before you decide to pull him out?!?  DAMMIT play Tyrus!

I hate Paxson - he put all of this mess together, go fire yourself!

The play calling sucks, the rotations suck, the lineups suck, the coaching sucks...every freaking thing just sucks

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 4, 2008 8:47 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nocioni
seriously, he should be traded.  I no longer see the value to keeping him.  He acts like he completely forgot how to slash and drive.  ANYBODY can go out there and shoot threes all day, of which he hits none.  Damn, stop shooting!!

Would it kill him not to flop at least ONE time??  I saw the same play that Matt mentioned, where he just flopped to the floor (Roy barely touched him by the way) and he left the 3-point shooter wide open for a shot.  COME ON!  If he was where he needed to be, maybe that basket is never made.

Even the shots that he makes are bad shots, they just happen to fall in.  I counted ONE in-rhythm, "good" shot that he took last night.  The rest were long threes, off-balance shots, rushed shots, just terrible, terrible offense.

Two years ago he was the fiery guy that was intense and picked up the team on defense, and would knock down good shots when you needed it.  Now he's just out there flailing away with flopping, floundering and foolishness (try saying that 3 times fast).

I have no clue who they could get for him, I don't even care at this point, but I say trade him.  He's useless in my eyes.

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 4, 2008 8:59 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

but you looooooovvvee BG
the money player who can't seem to hold on to the ball at crucial moments in the game.  If you're going to rip people, rip them all, don't be a fanboi.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 4, 2008 9:42 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll come out
and say it..I don't like Ben Gordon. He's a good scorer when he hits the shot but that's it. He thinks he's great and maybe that's why he's a turn off for me.
Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 4, 2008 9:59 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You and me both.
I like Ben Gordon because he can score in bunches, and this team obviously needs that, but I don't think he does much else. I don't dislike him for his lack of "clutch" or "stupidity", but just because I don't think he's good enough to be a primary scoring option.

If they could get a more "complete" scorer, I'd be all for it.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 4, 2008 10:10 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

complete scorer?
why does ben gordon get the blame when you have nocioni/hinrich shooting a lot and missing a lot (ie blazers game where they combined for less that 30 % shooting)

by alee7805 on Jan 4, 2008 5:08 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

true
i'm a BG guy, but HE was the reason (and Smith) they were in the game in the first place.  Yeah he jacked off the game with his bad turnover and compound foul at the end, but if not for his offense, they lose by even worse.

He is the only key player on the team who can offset his deficiencies with another aspect of his game...all those other people I mentioned can't.  When those other guys are struggling, they're just struggling.  At least even if he's getting beat on the defensive end, he can make up for it by hitting shots.

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 4, 2008 10:23 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

pretty sure
that meets the definition of fanboi.  When he's not scoring, what else does BG bring?  Most of those other guys bring something else.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 4, 2008 10:26 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

shooting is more important than other things
so the fact that he does that well has value. Especially for a team that can't score.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 10:28 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

sure shooting is important
who said it wasn't.  What I said was BG is just as flawed as anybody else on that team and you're a fanboi if you don't acknowledge it.  
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 4, 2008 10:34 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think people believe Gordon is flawless
but my point is that Gordon's flaws are less important because he makes up for it by shooting. And shooting is more important than rebounding, ballhandling, etc. (at least on a team level)

And especially on this team that can't score!

So he may have as many flaws as others, but his flaws aren't as important. Duhon not being able to score is far more detrimental of a flaw, for instance.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 10:39 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm not trying to rip on BG
and I think he is a fantastic shooter, but his flaws are just as important and maybe more important than the others.  Unless of course, you're saying that in addition to not playing the first six minutes of each half, he shouldn't play the last 30 seconds.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 4, 2008 10:44 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he can play the last 30 seconds
but the team has to run a play in that time. Not just give him the ball, and then for good measure bring over Wallace to give him more problems.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 10:51 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A couple of
his flaws showed at the ends of the overtime games. I think that's pretty important.
Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 4, 2008 12:20 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bingo!
This year, it's very true that "BG giveth, and BG taketh away."  Watching him play is a constant flip-flop between extreme awe and extreme frustration.

He takes shot he shouldn't take, but he makes a large part of them.  Then he loses his guy on the defensive end a yields an open jumper.  He drives down the lane and beats a guy with a sick crossover for a lay-in.  Another time he picks up his dribble in a horrible spot and throws an awful up-for-grabs pass that's a turnover.

I mean, we wouldn't be in the game offensively without him, but he couldn't guard Jarret Jack or Steve Blake last night to save his life.  The Aldrige-Jack pick & pop killed the Bulls in OT.  Wallace kept switching out to Jack because Gordon couldn't get through the screen leaving Aldridge open.

Would we be in the position to need a last-second shot from BG if he played average NBA defense?  Especially when 20,000 people know at the end it's going to be BG and no other.

(Side note; I thought the Bulls switched this up brilliantly by going to Joe Smith at the end of the 2nd OT with the Bulls down 3 after the BG turnover.  Smith got fouled and his shot could have bounced in instead of out.  The FT would have tied it.  Who knows what would have happened).

It's just very difficult to quantify the sum of BG's contributions to the team because they are superlative on both ends of the the good-bad spectrum.  I don't think a team with BG as the primary go-to guy can truly contend until BG trusts a teammate enough to pass off for a game winning shot instead of taking it all on himself.

"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy

by mdmnd9294 on Jan 4, 2008 3:03 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Your statement is so true ...
"I don't think a team with BG as the primary go-to guy can truly contend until BG trusts a teammate enough to pass off for a game winning shot instead of taking it all on himself".

Still, the Bulls need reliable (one or two) good starters that can deliver when called upon with a pass from BG....

by exult463 on Jan 4, 2008 3:57 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so what your saying is
you dont want Ben Gordon in at crunch time? who would be a better option? duhon?

by alee7805 on Jan 4, 2008 5:10 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm not saying
I don't want him in at crunch time. I want another option for the last play. In the two overtimes BG has blown it in both at critical times.
Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 4, 2008 5:40 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

who said
that I didn't acknowledge his flaws...I DO.  I just chose not to type it earlier  :-)

Seriously though, I've said several times here that his defense sucks and that he turns the ball over too much...but who else is hitting shots??

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 4, 2008 10:41 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lu, Noc, Smith
and even Kirk last game have been hitting their shots lately.  Go look at the box scores.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 4, 2008 10:46 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

last night
Lu 1-5

Noce 4-13

Kirk 5-18

Du 1-6

Wallce 4-11

wow, they were really on fire...

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 4, 2008 10:49 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lu
was clearly hurting.  I knew the moment he took his first shot he looked off.

by Jaina on Jan 4, 2008 11:47 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

there are different degrees
of "flawed." Gordon doesn't do a lot of stuff well, but people tend to label him as sucky when adequate is the apt description. With the team pace and individual usage rates all screwy this season, I'm inclined to say the team-wide issues are way more whine-worthy than putting Gordon 4th quarter turnovers under the microscope.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Jan 4, 2008 10:46 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree with you
and my point was to highlight fanboishness, not BG's flaw's, but there disturbing patterns and trends in his game and not pointing them out when listing all the other things that contributed to a painful loss is being a fanboi.  And I look over at the clock and realize I've wasted another morning arguing something completely irrelevant to anything important...  So I guess that makes me the big loser.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 4, 2008 10:56 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well watching the Bulls
wastes our nights, so why not waste the mornings too :)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 11:01 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

there are as many h8ters as fanbois
it's a push. The Gordon is too short/turnover amplification crowd is just as distasteful.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Jan 4, 2008 11:08 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

doesn't make either of them right
just makes them more frequent commenters, which is probably worse.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 4, 2008 11:19 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The biggest problem with BG is not his height.
God knows I'd rather stand against you than with you, but I can't get myself round to the other side of your argument.  

All the issues people are counting against Gordon are really issues that should be counted against the Bulls as a team.  Their personnel deficiencies demand that Gordon play the role of Dwayne Wade, Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Tony Parker--all last minute guys, but with the difference that they are outrageously incredible ball handlers who can get wherever they want on the court whenever they want.  Gordon is not one of those guys.  They are all superstars.   The fact that he fails in that role merely highlights the Bulls most glaring team defect.  

Don't hate on Ben.  It is misplaced.  Listen to what almost every other NBA player (maybe ignore former top 50 `greats') says about him.  He is a widely and highly respected player.  Ben is great at what he does.  It's the Bulls that are flawed.

by alec on Jan 4, 2008 11:40 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wish the coaching staff
realized that Gordon is most effective when put into a position where he can utilize his talents instead of forcing him to what he can't.

THe problem being they fall so in love with this shooting ability that they forget his limitations and the Bulls fall into the late game trap of Ben trying to be facilitator/scorer.

Case in point, 90 percent of the game the Bulls start the ball with Hinrich or Duh and then  run some sort screen to free up a player for a shot or one/one drive. Why do they keep relying on Ben to dribble out the entire shot clock and then shoot when it goes against what the Bulls are running all night? He shouldn't even be put into that position. It's so obvious what the Bulls do at the end of the game that you can pretty much predict that BG has a TO or throws up a wild shot. How many times will this happen before they try something new? THIS HAS BEEN HAPPENING FOR 3 YEARS NOW!

by RogersPark Kris on Jan 4, 2008 10:54 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The reason BG
has the ball at the end of the games is because he wants the ball. He has stated this. He wants to be the hero.
Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 4, 2008 12:22 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Apparently coaches have no choice here.
Huh?
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 4, 2008 12:27 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

These coaches do suck.
Seriously, they're quite horrible.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 4, 2008 12:29 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They need
to try someone different. I'm sure he tells them he can make the shot. After two times of disaster now this is on the coaches.
Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 4, 2008 12:47 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You can give him the ball
with a better chance of making the shot. It's not like he's missing wide-open standstill jumpers. He's getting harrassed by defenders because that's all the defense has to worry about.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 12:50 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This goes back
to him being able to handle the ball better. He can't.
Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 4, 2008 1:07 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you're right
let's give the ball to Mr. Slump My Shoulders and we'll all sit back and watch him hit a two-handed volleyball shot at the rim...better yet, we'll watch him have a wide open look as the clock is winding down and he'll pass the ball behind him to a darting Noah to win the game

Go Bulls!

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 4, 2008 2:17 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I didn't say who
should have the ball did I? All I know is it isn't working for BG to have it in his hands at critical times because he can't handle the ball.
Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 4, 2008 2:24 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You're right, and I think part of that,
for Ben, is that he really, really wants to show he's worth max money...and he can only show that by doing max money player things.  Problem is, he can't.  Which means he's not.  

The bottom line is that it ends up being exactly what Scottie said it was:  selfishness.  The truth is he's just not a first option...but on the Bulls, who don't even have any other second options, he becomes, by default, their first option.

by alec on Jan 4, 2008 1:00 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lol
what logic...I'm sure Griffin says that he wants to take the last shot too, that doesn't mean that it happens

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 4, 2008 2:20 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maybe you should
try reading more articles. He's said this to the media. I guess we aren't going to agree. It happens.
Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 4, 2008 2:28 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

maybe you should
try reading my posts...I didn't deny or argue that Ben has said that in the past.  My point is that you can't name me a player in the league who HASN'T said it...you think just because Ben says it, that it automatically means that the coaches turn into a robot and follow his every command??

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 4, 2008 2:39 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't really
care what other players have said it. The Bulls are the only team I follow and my concern is with these players. Until the coaches make a change then the game endings at critical times will be the same.
Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 4, 2008 2:51 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

like you said
earlier...we agree to disagree.

Hopefully it eventually gets to a point where a game-ending shot to tie or win is no longer needed...how about that  :-)

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 4, 2008 2:59 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Uhhhh...
I don't know if Thomas will be the fix to your rotation issues.

by Kemp on Jan 4, 2008 10:07 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Front court matchups
This is something that I just cannot explain in regards to the Chicago coaching staff.  On one night they will exploit matchups in the front court and punish their opponents running play after play utilizing their bigs.  The very next night comes and it's like the previous demonstration never happened.

Case in point, Portland found the hot hand in Travis Outlaw.  He had the game of his life.  He played PF for nearly the entire second half.  In brief moments, McMillan subbed in Channing Frye for rebounding purposes, but as soon as Outlaw was rested he was right back in the game.  Boylan decides to leave Joe Smith out there to guard Outlaw and keep Ben Wallace on Aldridge.  Here's the gap.

Portland ran the high screen the entire second half.  Outlaw and Aldridge rotated as the screeners.  With Aldridge setting screens the Blazers were copying the play run by the Raptors against us with Bargnani and Jose Calderon.  In this sequence, the ball handler is not looking to shoot from the perimeter at all.  The primary goal of the ball handler is to dribble to the screen at  center court and then flash out wide to the sideline to bait Ben Wallace.  If Wallace is sagging towards the paint the guard will jab step towards Wallace to freeze him allowing the screener to roll to the opposite side of the paint for the wide open 18 footer.  In the Toronto sequences, no Bull defender could recover and elevate to reach the release point of Bargnani to bother the shot.  Take a wild guess as to how high Aldridge's release point is?

Portland would rotate the screener to Travis Outlaw who was tasked with the same movements as Aldridge but in addition he maintains the ability to dribble drive for a step back jumper.  Joe Smith could not keep up with Outlaw to limit the penetration AND bother the jump shot.  Considering how ineffective Ben Wallace was on offense missing layups, dunks, and getting pushed around by James Jones, this was the opportune time to sub either Noah or Thomas for Wallace.  Joe Smith was highly efficient on offense and was giving us more defense last night as compared to a typical night.  Smith and Wallace are in their 30s.  Last night was the second of a back to back.  You have to get the young legs on the floor when the opponents strategy is being executed as a result of the age the Bulls leave on the court.

Yes, it hurt not having Luol Deng in the 2nd half.  But we were still up 10 in the 3rd quarter.  The Blazers closed the 3rd quarter on a tear running the Outlaw high screen with Jack and Roy sharing the ball handling duties.  Wallace was subbed out in this stretch for Noah, but he came in to guard Aldridge instead of Outlaw.

These are coaching errors.  You know what your players can and can't do.  The Blazers basically ran the same exact offense against Chicago that we effectively ran against the Bobcats to exploit their weakness in the front court.  The difference is that Charlotte has nothing on their bench to make up for the exploitation.  Chicago does have alternatives on their bench, but they have to be inserted into games and tasked with guarding the proper personnel.

by NBA Observer on Jan 4, 2008 9:03 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

on point
it was completely disgusting how MacMillan out-coached the entire Bulls staff in the 2nd half.  I was screaming the same thing that you just said.  Portland exploited the match-ups...the Bulls just sat there, watched, and took it on the chin.

How many times can you watch Wallace and Smith go flying at Outlaw and Aldrige before you make some type of adjustment??

Why not go to a 3-2?  It wasn't like Portland was killing them on the inside.  Do something...do anything!

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 4, 2008 9:38 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So Long Skiles
This was the reason why I thought you had to fire Skiles.  He and the staff just were not seeing the floor, looking at the opponents strategy, and then seeking to matchup accordingly to deplete that strategy or counter it to force the opponent to adjust.

The opponent is out there with a silly red cape dangling it front the Bulls and over and over with try and buck it, but come up with nothing.

I wish United Center fans were more vocal.  I wish they understood basketball more than "Kirk Hinrich is hot" and "Afros are cool".  If I was in the front row I'd be coaching the Bulls from my seat.

by NBA Observer on Jan 4, 2008 9:51 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what's funny about that
the trailblazers went to their small-ball lineup and Boylan refused to be suckered into responding with the Bulls small-ball lineup.  And you say it's poor coaching... bah humbug.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 4, 2008 9:52 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree in theory
but that would imply the Bulls were actually using their size advantage. Tough to do when the frontcourt can't make a layup

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 9:56 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not smallball
Travis Outlaw is 6'10".  He's almost exactly the same player as Gerald Wallace with a few more inches of height and lesser ability to get to the free throw line.  When he plays PF you counter with Noah or Tyrus.  They can defend the perimeter better than Ben Wallace and Joe Smith.

Look at Ben and Joe.  They were dominating the paint on defense.  Joe had 4 blocks.  Portland couldn't get very much in close.  But away from the basket they lured the Chicago front court to defeat us.

by NBA Observer on Jan 4, 2008 9:58 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Outlaw came in for Pryzb#$@!@$@
they went small and quick to counter the bulls effectiveness in the front court.  Maybe we could call it the quick-ball lineup.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 4, 2008 10:06 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

re: coaching philosophy
eh, why pretend I give a crap about the overall matchups or philosophy. Just play Tyrus and Noah. There. That's my coaching strategy. Oh, and sit Duhon.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 10:08 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

When is the Bulls breaking point for the season
when the Bulls decide that this season is over and its time to go young?

How many losses before we start seeing a "buidling for the future" lineup of Thabo, Hinrich, Deng, TT, and Noah.

What I'm worried about is that even if the Bulls know that this season is a wash, are they forced to play Noc and Wallace tons of minutes in order to either justify their bloated contracts or simply to showcase their talents in case any team wants to pull the trigger on a trade.

by RogersPark Kris on Jan 4, 2008 10:15 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

For the 171,134th time!!!
"Going young" does NOT mean winning less!!!! Christ, kids.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 4, 2008 10:17 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

for sure
How could the Bulls win less?

by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 4, 2008 12:22 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How simple yet profound..
I wonder if John Paxson has yet thought of this concept?

by exult463 on Jan 4, 2008 4:02 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

building for the future
hopefully doesn't include Thabo. He should be sent to Hollinger's second draft, and net a player with an aesthetically pleasing jumpshot that works.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Jan 4, 2008 10:21 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is there
any hope his no arch line drive jump shot (FG.304 & 3PT.333) will ever achieve Richard Hamiton's shooting percentages (FG.493 & 3PT.491) ?

Maybe an unfair comparison because no Bulls guard's percentages come anywhere near RH who also gets many baskets on dunks, tip-ins and layups aside from his deadly jumper.

by exult463 on Jan 4, 2008 4:18 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the worst part
The worst part about the coaching is that at halftime they showed Boylan talking about how they have to get better at defending the high screen.  So, he recognized the weakness; he just chose to do nothing about it.

by oskeewowwow on Jan 4, 2008 10:34 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You babies!!!
Whiners!
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 4, 2008 9:18 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

blazer fans are lucky
they can hear the same 'good character' bullshit that we do, but they have Greg Oden in the wings. Maybe in two years they'll trade him for Jermaine O'Neal.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 9:21 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not good character.
But... chemacterility. It's made up! How clever!!11!!!1!!
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 4, 2008 9:27 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I realize Bill Simmons takes a lot of grief
on this site.  I think part of it is simply that most BaB'ers are equal opportunity bashers, but I think it may also be because Simmons is more fan than expert--and BaB members are probably more hardcore on average than the typical espn.com reader.  

Be that as it may, I think some of his columns are occasionally brilliant, and represent some of the best writing in the American sports comedy landscape.  He wrote a piece a couple years ago about Tanith Belbin (U.S. Olympic ice dancer who is so beautiful it's hard even to look at her) that was one of the funniest sports pieces I've ever read.  

He's usually at his best when his teams are going south and he's suffocating in personal angst...much like some of the talented writers on this site.

by alec on Jan 4, 2008 12:45 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I read every one of Simmons columns
But you're right in that when you know more about a subject he's talking about, it's easier to nitpick and it gets in the way of the entertainment value of the column.

For instance, I couldn't care less about weekly NFL betting lines, so those columns are still great in my eyes.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 5:55 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's easy to be cocky
when you win 13 out of their last 14 games, but I still thought that the Blazers weren't that impressive. And before they put LMA in the Hall of Fame, I thought outside of a short stretch towards the end of the game, Old Man River Joe Smith was fucking owning Aldridge all night. So suck on that Blazer fans and welcome to the your imminent first round sweep.

by RogersPark Kris on Jan 4, 2008 9:27 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

actually
they have won 15 of their last 16 games...

by rudy4prez on Jan 4, 2008 11:28 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Everyone has posted the
negative aspects of this Bulls loss, so I will take the other side, even though Matt will scoff. The Bulls played well, even very well, for stretches and certainly good enough to beat this fairly good Portland team that is on a roll. Schadenfreude was satisfied when Aldridge had a weak game, but how much sweeter would it have been if TT had gotten a chance to outplay him?
The one thing I took away from this game, and it has been a pattern for the Bulls is the lack of "killer instinct". The Bulls could and should have put this Blazer team away, and it seemed that every time they had a chance, they took a jump shot (many wide-open) and missed. It is almost as if they are afraid to win. Yes, the substitution patterns were questionable at best, and no TT even in a back-to-back double overtime game is kind of ludicrous but it seemed to me that the Bulls are still finding ways to lose rather than putting teams away.

by philosoball on Jan 4, 2008 9:52 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is so true
and its the same problem they had last
year.  They are playing A LOT closer
to their potential right now but that
still doesn't make them one of the elite
teams in the league.  They don't so much
suck outright at the moment, they're back
to suffering from old ailments like lack
too much perimeter.

by Rusty LaRue on Jan 4, 2008 8:25 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

bias alert
just realized: Hanley and Boylan both went to Marquette.

fair warning, I will use this info to unfairly bash Hanley in the future.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 10:10 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ugh.
"If I had to, I would say Tyrus had a better first year than LaMarcus did. Now LaMarcus is coming on, and I'm sure Ty is going to do whatever he can to get himself back and into the rotation and prove that he was the pick we should have taken."

Well, shit. If Boylan doesn't know why Tyrus isn't playing, then who the fuck does? What the hell is wrong with this franchise?

Aldridge's early struggles on offense kept the capacity crowd at the United Center from wondering what might have been -- at least for a while.

"He has an unlimited amount of potential,'' Trail Blazers coach Nate McMillan said of Aldridge. ''With his length being able to play inside and out, you've got somewhat of a Kevin Garnett-[Dirk] Nowitzki type of player that is capable of spreading a big player and taking advantage of a smaller player.

KG/DK? hahahahaha Oh, and I didn't realize there were so many small guys that played PF.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 4, 2008 10:16 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Boylan knows exactly why
he isn't playing Tyrus.  Do you really expect him to come out and say something like,"Tyrus has his head up his ass too often and although he can jump like a gazelle, we really need him figure out how to keep track of his man on the defensive end for an entire 24 seconds."  You don't think they are trying to be as nice and positive as they can with Tyrus right now?
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 4, 2008 10:24 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and I don't think we should give these mopes
the benefit of the doubt.

The edict is 'play veterans'. That's the reason for all of this, nothing really deeper to look into.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 10:28 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Um...
...sitting a guy for 55 out of 58 minutes is not being nice. And no, I'm not sure Boylan knows why he's sitting Tyrus.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 4, 2008 11:20 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey
So did Wade and Doc Rivers.  Are you going to hold it against them?

by KT on Jan 4, 2008 10:50 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ditto
Atleast everyone here is on the same page.  Maybe Reinsdorf, Paxson, & Bolan will fall into place next.  

by Jesse07 on Jan 4, 2008 10:32 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Bulls were
playing their 4th game in 5 nights. Give em a break. Portland is a good team. The Bulls just ran out of gas plus they were short handed. Ben Wallace is who he is. Until the Bulls get a legit 5 man, Wallace will be playing out of position. The Bulls should play Hinrich at point, Luol at 2, Tyrus at the 3, Wallace at 4 and Noah at the 5 or maybe Gray. See what happens. Trade nocioni he plays so stupid at times. It's frustrating but at least the Bulls aren't quitting anymore. The Bulls should have won that game. Didn't we lose to Portland last year as well?
Bulls fan till death

by saalikjazz on Jan 4, 2008 10:35 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hahahah
They shouldn't have run out of gas when they have young legs on the bench. They weren't short-handed. They didn't have Thabo. Big whoop. Everyone else was clearly available for more minutes.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 4, 2008 11:22 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

dang it
You beat me to it.  Well put.

by Jesse07 on Jan 4, 2008 11:25 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Actually they were
Luol Deng!!!! That messed up the whole rotation and offense.
Bulls fan till death

by saalikjazz on Jan 4, 2008 11:37 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Duh. That's right.
That explains Noc getting more minutes and even Griffin getting 3, but it doesn't excuse Smith and Wallace playing that much.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 4, 2008 11:54 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm pretty sure
Portland was also playing 4 games in 5 nights too.

by Jaina on Jan 4, 2008 11:49 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I never thought I would say this
But I totally agree with Matt with how much I hate watching this team right now.

Even in the down years, I kind of enjoyed watching them because of seeing Eddy and Tyson grow even though the Bulls still sucked.

Now, I'm left watching no growth at all. Just lame coaching

by Option27 on Jan 4, 2008 10:37 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wow
"I'm left watching no growth at all"

Certainly the Bulls are going no where this year, and where will starters like Joe Smith, Ben Wallace and Duhon take this team in two years?  

When an organism stops growing, many say it begins to die.

I'ts like watching a worm dry up on a sunny day.

by exult463 on Jan 4, 2008 4:35 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

right, and worse
is we don't have to imagine what it'll be in 2 years, we see where this team is NOW with Duh/Smith/Wallace.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 4:39 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was at the game
When Boylan ran the Duhon/Gordon/Griffin/Noah/Wallace lineup onto the floor, I was screaming bloody murder.  I sit next to a press table and everyone there was laughing.  Why is AG even in uniform?!

Ben Wallace is worthless.  His bursts of good defense do not make up for his terrible offense.  Think about it like this: if Wallace hits anything other than 0% in regulation from the FT line in the Orlando or Portland games, there is no OT and the Bulls win.  Put another way, if he shoots 33% from the floor in the Orlando game and 45% in the Portland game, the Bulls win.  Remember that most of Big Ben's shots are around the rim.  It's not like he's taking 15 footers.  On one play last night, the rim blocked an uncontested layup from Wallace.  Are you kidding me?!

Duhon is worthless.  He was 1-6 last night with his only basket a goaltend.  On Monday, he was 0-6 from the floor and 1-3 from the line.  Again, if he hits 66% from the FT line in the Magic game, the Bulls win.

These players are getting way too many minutes.  Wallace should play 25 minutes a game MAX.  Duhon should relieve Gordon or Hinrich only when there are other REAL scorers on the floor.  My main problem with Skiles was his lousy lineups.  Sadly, Boylan is continuing with this terrible tradition.

by Stay Chisel on Jan 4, 2008 10:38 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wallace's FTs
aren't my concern.

But this thing where he can't jump high enough to finish anymore. That's a HUGE problem. His 'offense' was still workable because he could catch, pass, and finish. He can't even finish anymore, and it's a really big issue. He's still shooting 33.5% which is historically low for him.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 10:42 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

flat early
Ben Wallace looked disinterested in this game very early.  Ok, jetlag?  age?  Fine.  When does the rust shake out?  Mid 2nd quarter?  Halftime?

If you can't box out James Jones what the hell are you doing on the floor?

I can't wait for the first 4 in 5 games for Boylan ON THE ROAD.  Nightmares!

by NBA Observer on Jan 4, 2008 10:46 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it's not even a mystery why he was flat
he played 36 minutes the night before.

Boylan should've recognized that it was more than likely Wallace was due for a stinker. And when the early indication was there, limited his minutes.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 10:50 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Boxing out
Completely agree.  I do like what I see in Noah because every shot he finds someone and puts a body on them.  Im sick of Wallace or Noce the not boxing out and just going for the ball.  

by Jesse07 on Jan 4, 2008 11:27 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wallace never really boxed out
he used to get rebounds by being more athletic than other centers, plus the good hands and instincts and all that jazz.

Noc gets most of his rebounds jumping on teammates' backs.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 11:30 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

exactly
Wallace has never been a free-throw maker historically so any that he does hit are gravy.

What is untolerable are the several missed layups and dunks.

If he hit all of his around-the-rim attempts per game, my guess is he probably would be averaging double figures in points.

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 4, 2008 10:47 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

50%
Wallace doesn't need to hit everything but there is no reason someone who only shoots 5 feet and in, with mostly dunks and layups can't shoot 50%, his lack of offense ability really does hurt the Bulls as the defense can ignore him most of the time

by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 4, 2008 12:27 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maybe this is a small point,
but, however marginally, it looks to me as though Wallace has improved his free-throw shooting technique(by bending slightly in a way reminiscent of the tin woodman) which should make him less afraid to get fouled. And yet he still goes to the rim as though the worst thing that could happen is that he draws some contact and has to shoot his free-throws. I think he might need to adjust his mentality on that issue.

by philosoball on Jan 4, 2008 12:32 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh and another point
Remember when all of us read about how Portland used the Bulls as a blueprint for their success?

Well maybe the Bulls should now turn the tables and realize the only reason that Portland's youngsters are getting so much better is because last season.  They played the shit outta them.

by Option27 on Jan 4, 2008 10:43 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

does paxson
realize this? vote option27 special assistant to GM

by exult463 on Jan 4, 2008 4:41 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Guards are weak
With Duhon starting the Bulls backcourt has to be the worst in the league.  Kirk is apparantly the captain of the future even tho i think Gordon's ability to score and drive makes him the perfect point guard for this team especially coming off of the bench... if only they had a solid 2.  Makes me think Paxson's biggest mistake has been taking Tyrus instead of Brandon Roy due to overconfidence in Hinrich and Duhon and Sefo (Kobe would have been nice too...).  Don't get me wrong, I like Tyrus and think he should be first off of the bench to give Joe Smith or Deng a rest.  Tyrus Thomas is a game changer.  And Aldridge does not impress me.  But Duhon cannot score.  teams know this and leave him open hoping that he shoots the 3.  Hinrich is not much better.  So where to go from here?  Hopefully no more Adrian Griffin.  Wallace has been stepping it up and giving the Bulls chances to win.  As young as Noah Grey and tyrus are we have depth and potential and competition in the frontcourt.   Joe Smith was awesome, but it worries me that he is the second and last scoring option at the end of games.  This team needs scoring regardless of where it comes from.  
   

by Zac23 on Jan 4, 2008 11:13 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Your hatred
for Hinrich is well documented here.
Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 4, 2008 12:17 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Negativity
God, you people are depressing. The Bulls took one of the hottest NBA teams to double overtime! It's a shame they couldn't finish it, but still a good effort. No, it wasn't perfect, but nobody plays basketball perfectly. Even on the best teams there are hot and cold streaks, and questionable coaching decisions.

I've got no problem with a good discussion about tactics, but all this mourning and whining is just lame.

by BJarmstrong on Jan 4, 2008 11:29 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The lack of expectations is more depressing
I also don't believe in 'hot' teams. The Blazers are completely underwhelming, and were on the road.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 11:32 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't mind finishing 32-50.
As long as they come close in 40 of those 50 losses, I'll be pretty satisfied.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 4, 2008 11:36 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh, and Tyrus learns his lesson.
That needs to happen, too. Make sure he learns his lesson.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 4, 2008 11:41 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

my dream
is better spacing

nothing like seeing Noc, Duhon and Kirk miss open shots (all of them seemed short) in the 2nd half

by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 4, 2008 12:29 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thank You
Someone finally said it. Everyone acts like the Blazers and the Magic are chopped liver. They are both good teams and we took them to the limit. I like watching the Bulls now more than before. At least they are trying to play with effort. They did run out of gas. The reason why Tyrus isn't playing a lot of minutes is he is getting his ass kicked in practice apparently. Jim Boylan is a better coach than you guys think he is. He's trying to win games, that's why his rotation is shorter. As far as Griff getting minutes. he was good enough to be a starter on the Dallas Mavericks. We don't know what goes on in practice.
Bulls fan till death

by saalikjazz on Jan 4, 2008 11:44 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Huh?
he is getting his ass kicked in practice apparently

and

We don't know what goes on in practice.

Okay then.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 4, 2008 11:51 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Jim Boylan said
that Noah was playing better in practice. So i paraphrased. :)
Bulls fan till death

by saalikjazz on Jan 4, 2008 11:55 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hah!
No, you completely changed the meaning.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 4, 2008 11:57 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wonder if...
...Wallace tries harder in practice to keep his starting spot.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 4, 2008 12:06 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah ur right it's frustrating, hear is my plan th
Tyrus should play the 3 and deng should play the 2 anyway and start noah at the 5 and wallace at the 4 and kirk at point

Trade Nocioni

Bulls fan till death

by saalikjazz on Jan 4, 2008 12:07 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"They are both good teams"
If the Bulls can only beat bad teams (and stay close at home against good teams) the rest of the way, they're not making the playoffs.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 12:45 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ding ding ding.
We have a winner:

"Ben Wallace's per-40 minute stats:
With Skiles: 5.2 PTS, 10.8 REB.
Since Skiles got fired: 5.6 PTS, 10.3 REB.

How long before we hear Stephen A. Smith or some other ..."

by Jesse07 on Jan 4, 2008 11:34 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

opps
was supposed to be replied to our: Gaurds are Weak.

by Jesse07 on Jan 4, 2008 11:54 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That guy says Aldridge would have been bad.
For them anyway. He's a rich man's Charlie V.

He called LMA a scrappy rebounder. Heh. I think he meant in a derogatory way, too.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 4, 2008 11:49 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Charlie V
is a good rebounder.  He just sucks at defense, but gets an  unfair rap on a lot of other stuff.

He'd work well in a place like Phoenix.  

by KT on Jan 4, 2008 11:55 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Phoenix
This is like saying "He'll be a great person, once he gets to heaven."

But yes, Charlie V needs an uptempo team.  Too bad he got traded from Toronto before they adopted the 7 second shot clock.

by NBA Observer on Jan 4, 2008 1:14 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Charlie V trade
He was traded for Ford because they wanted to move to an uptemp game.  When his career is complete, he will probably fall under the category of player that "just never got it"

by Jesse07 on Jan 4, 2008 1:57 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And it's worked out well for both
Not really.

TJ is fragile, fragile, fragile.  I wish, for his sake, he'd quit playing before he risks more than a career ending injury.

The Bucks just have a poorly constructed team with too many holes to hide players deficiencies.

by KT on Jan 4, 2008 3:05 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

at least that's an apt comparison
two tall guys who take long jumpers.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 4, 2008 11:50 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

worst fans ever
You dont deserve the bulls..... okey the season has started slow...... but we are only 1/3 into it!!
Come on!!!
Except for maybe Luol.... you are destroying all the team!! The team we loves not so long ago!

yes Duhon is a liability on offense....but he doesnt turn the ball over and doesnt take many shots (Spurs  were champions with the lesser and older Vaughn playing important minutes)

yes Hinrich is shooting like crap...but he does a lot of things well, he is a complete guard.... he helps even when his shots are not going in....

yes Gordon can only score..... but isnt that what the bulls need? of course he struggles sometimes... thats because he is a jumpshooter, Ray allen and Michael Redd also have bad strings of games !!

yes Nocioni makes mistakes and his shot isnt falling lately..... but he makes mistakes (and a lot of times he does great plays) because he CARES, he plays with HEART all the time. Right now he is in a shooting slump.... but not long ago he was the only guy hitting shots on the roster!

YEs Ben Wallace is old and tired.... but its not his fault that the coaches put him 40 mins a night!!

COME ON GUYS, support the team that we have.... its a talented bunch with room to grow, its the same team as last year but with more talented young players

by Chilai on Jan 4, 2008 11:52 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oh god
I didn't say the team was on the bus.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 12:14 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

because there aren't any
cliffs between the Berto, airport, and Milwaukee? Geographically unsound humor bothers me too.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Jan 4, 2008 12:17 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm close.
Just looked at the GameFlow. The fact that Thomas played 3 minutes in double OT of the second night of a back-to-back is pretty inexcusable. If the kid sucks that bad or had his head that far up his ass, he needs to be sent packing.

Another "TRY HARDER" tactic by Boylan? Skiles couldn't "get through" to Thomas? Boylan tries harder by sitting him more and yanking him quicker. BRILLIANT!!!

I'm quitting on this franchise since it quit on me.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 4, 2008 12:13 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LMAO
Then would we get to the first pick next year?

by Option27 on Jan 4, 2008 12:17 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We'd bench him, too
But at least we might not find out that he was talented first.  And that's my optimism.
Where's Tyrus?

by cubbybear on Jan 4, 2008 1:02 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The focus of the negativity on B.A.B. this year
usually refers back to the management of the players from the GM or coach, not from the player's limitations.  

by Jesse07 on Jan 4, 2008 11:59 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

not true
go look at all the Du/Hinrich/Noc/Wallace/Deng hater comments.  Some are well-founded, but most aren't.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 4, 2008 12:03 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not true x 2!
Most of the comments are about the limitations, but only because said players with limitations get played so much.

go look at all the Du/Hinrich/Noc/Wallace/Deng hater comments They're usually about saying those guys could be effective if played less.

Some are well-founded, but most aren't. Right! Noc is a great defender, Du is excellent on offense, Wallace tries hard all the time!!! Woot!!11!!1!!

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 4, 2008 12:10 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I said "refers back to"
most of these players if used properly would not be hated on.  

Kirk - he is getting run into the ground guarding the other team scorer and trying to run the offense.  I like that Boylan is getting the ball out of his hands.

Duhon- he is viewed as a very capable backup, but the haters come on when he is overused; especially with the small ball lineups.  

Wallace - is on the downside of his career.  He was brought here for playoff experience and accoutability, but he shouldn't be playing 47 minutes in a game.  The haters know this and are discusted that his overplaying is coming at the youngerster expense.  

Noce - He should be coached to stop chucking so much and learn where to stand on defense.  The 5 years contract is another story.

Deng- not sure he has any hater here???

by Jesse07 on Jan 4, 2008 12:20 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I've found it harder...
to enjoy even the games we win when I begin to think about logging in here and seeing all the dissection of players minutes, motivations none of us could possible know about players and coaches and GMs, and general hate and vitriol for one player or another because they are somehow in the way of a favorite player.  

Winning does cure most crankiness, but this year it feels like crankiness wins out for wins and losses the same.  I'll probably be taking a break from here to see if I can at least enjoy the rest of the season.  Only one team wins the championship each year and it is pretty clear it won't be the Bulls.  With that in mind I think it is possible to at least enjoy watching the games, but for me I'll have to stop analyzing everything so much to do so.

by cranscape on Jan 4, 2008 1:16 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you're right
but I can't seem to stop hitting the refresh button.  Good luck.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 4, 2008 1:23 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

nods
It is like driving slowly by an accident scene.  

by cranscape on Jan 4, 2008 2:08 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A really
gory accident.
Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 4, 2008 2:16 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

to continue
Duhon cannot be relied on. It seems like when he's put in the lineup as a back up (aka fuller) he sometimes shines.  When the bulls need him, he is not there.

Wallace was brought to Chicago to be the team leader. This team has no leader.

I regret watching that game. F'in'A

by chicago-homesick-blues on Jan 4, 2008 12:28 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Would Damon Stoudamire be a temp. improvement
over Duhon? Memphis Article I can't check the trade machine at the moment, but.. Nocioni, Duhon, Noah, Thomas, and Khryapa for Gasol, Stoudamire, Warrick, and Memphis 1st rnd '08 pick. or Smith, Duhon, Noah, Thomas, and Khryapa for Gasol, Stoudamire, and Warrick. Hey if that link doesn't show up, can someone give me help with writing links into posts...

by Mattchoo on Jan 4, 2008 1:21 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

link works
don't get greedy and try and get a 1st rounder from Memphis. If they're dealing Gasol, I think it's rebuilding time and they'd want all the picks they can get.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 1:31 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

in that second variation
the bulls trade all of their potential PF's for Gasol so he can come here and break his foot in game three with the bulls.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 4, 2008 1:42 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Didn't see the second one.
But yeah, that sounds right. Sounds like what I'm expecting from Smith sometime soon, too.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 4, 2008 1:47 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Does he play defense?
And by defense I mean "better than Gordon".

by NBA Observer on Jan 4, 2008 2:42 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You've got to be brave....
and let Tyrus go.  He's a loser.  He should've
gotten yanked after those fouls, thats the
fifth or sixth time this season he's come in
and played like ass in just a few minutes.  This stint was better I guess in that he didn't sandwich those fouls around a stupid turnover so I guess thats the improvement your looking for.

You guys pumpin' Tyrus remind me of all the Jamal Crawford supporters.  Its not going to happen for this guy for a long long long time if ever.  I mean if you really think he ought to be getting more pt then you must still be torn up over E-Rob's release too.  He came out waaayyyy too soon. Wayyy too soon.

by Rusty LaRue on Jan 4, 2008 1:57 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Does anybody else feel like
Matt has bots that make comments like this to stir things up?  That said, he does have some good point despite the Scottie Pippenesque delivery style.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 4, 2008 2:14 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

First posession
Tyrus got an offensive rebound and was fouled on the putback but there was no call.

He made a jumpshot a few posessions later.

Now cherry-picking good things isn't the fullest evaluation, but I don't get how he had a 'bad' stint. Don't see the turnover you mentioned on the Play-by-Play. The 2nd foul was on a loose ball and it was a questionable call (as I mentioned in the recap).

It was 3 minutes for chrissakes.

(not that I'm replying to you specifically since your comments don't deserve it, but it's been said a couple times)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 2:22 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wanted to respond...
...but the fact that bullshooter said he had good points convinced me it was worthless.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 4, 2008 2:28 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

did you hear Collins
relate the story about how TT was a late to a film session yesterday because he was shooting and joe smith had to go get him?  what do you make of that?
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 4, 2008 3:01 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That Thomas was so intent on getting better...
...that he lost track of time. Why? What do you make of it?
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 4, 2008 3:05 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that he didn't particulary care
to be at the team meeting.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 4, 2008 3:18 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't care if he opens each film session
putting peanut butter in the DVD player. He should play, this team could use a few nuckleheads who can actually effect the game. This good-guys-who-aren't-so-good-when-times-aren't-rosy-not-to-mention-aren't-great-at-basketball philosophy isn't really doin it for me anymore.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 3:27 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't get it.
Matt, I truly don't get your blind adoration of Tyrus.  I agree that he should be playing more, and he certainly should have been used more last night, but this comment of yours is just off-the-wall.

You really want to just throw him out there, even if it's one step forward and two steps back for the team?  Just "roll it out an' let 'em recreate"?  He'll "effect the game" all right, but not necessarily in a positive way.

If Tyrus isn't going to do what he's asked to do, the only carrot a coach has is PT.  He can't affect compensation directly.  It's not college so he won't make him run till he can't eat supper.

Now, he should get more PT than he's getting.  Ceratinly there's no need for Wallace & Smith to play the minutes they did last night with Tyrus, Noah and Gray barely breaking a sweat.  But I don't think he should be the first 3 or 4 off the bench until he does what he's asked.  All 5 guys need to be on the same page, or else it all just breaksdown.

"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy

by mdmnd9294 on Jan 4, 2008 3:53 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well it worked in the 2nd half last season
when Noc was hurt, and Tyrus played bunches, and they were a better team for it.

He's effective, and restricting PT isn't making him better, so maybe just giving him the minutes will. It may make Sam Smith sad, but I don't care.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 4:12 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

excellent point
How quickly we (I) forget about last season.

Perhaps I've been drinking too much Pax/Skiles/Boylan "coach-speak" kool-aid.  There must be something else less obvious going on behind the scenes that is limiting that PT.  He doesn't need to start, but the 4th overall pick should get more than 3-4 mpg over 5 games.

That said, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for anything other than a culture of discipline and accountability under Paxson.

"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy

by mdmnd9294 on Jan 4, 2008 4:32 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If your definition of
"worked" is different from everyone elses.

When he played heavier minutes last year
he was the same guy he is right now.  Wildly
inconsistent, mistake prone, TO prone, and
foul prone.   Yes sometimes he does stuff
that make your eyes pop out of your head
but the NBA isn't an And 1 Mix Tape.  
He doesn't deserve to be playing ahead
of Noah or Gray right now and they're
got a much better chance of salvaging this season if they ride Smith for all he's worth.  So...find me a justification for giving the guy more minutes.

If they bag it and start rebuilding with trades then I'd say hell yes start playing TT but his on the court development isn't a luxury this team can afford while they still have aspirations of making noise in the playoffs.  Its hard to imagine what you're looking at that leads you to a different conclusion.

by Rusty LaRue on Jan 4, 2008 5:26 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

TT detractors keep arguing that
basketball is more than blocks and dunks.  But, the TT defenders here don't talk about youtube highlights for the most part, and I certainly do not.  I want TT on the floor for fundamental stuff like rebounding, defense, and getting to the FT line.  But this club could also use alot more dunks.  Shots that go in 95% of the time are very effective.  And that's what I care about being effective.  TT makes the Bulls more effective.  It shows up in his +/- both this year and last year, despite all his mental mistakes and low basketball I.Q. crap.  I'll take that.  Some players are effective despite their flaws, Thomas is one of them.  Smith, Wallace, and Nocioni are .500 players at this point.  That's not good enough when more effective players are sitting on the bench in Thomas and Noah.

by Scotter on Jan 4, 2008 6:24 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If it weren't
for his athleticism TT wouldn't be
in the NBA so thats all he brings
to the table right now.

by Rusty LaRue on Jan 4, 2008 6:39 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes, but he uses that
athleticism to do things that win basketball games.  That's what I care about.  Winning games.

by Scotter on Jan 4, 2008 6:45 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hit reply too soon....
in continuation....

When you talk about TT's fundamentals do you
mean to say that you're watching a guy that
spaces himself correctly, knows where to stand,
comes hard to screens, cuts sharp, rotates
correctly, sees the court well??  Of course
you don't because he does none of those things
and they are ALL things he should be able to
do regardless of playing time.  Both Noah and
Gray do and they just got here so the "TT is
withering on the bench" thing just doesn't
wash.  He's earned every minute he's spending
on the bench.  Haven't we learned what happens
when you pass out minutes on potential??  

by Rusty LaRue on Jan 4, 2008 6:52 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How's it possible to
take two steps back from this?  There's no way that this team would be worse than it is over the long term with Thomas playing at least 20 min/g.  If he actually played, he might just be more receptive to the coaches.  Or if the coaches actually put players in positions to be successful.  Thomas has never actually recieved the carrot of playing time in his entire NBA career.  You can't change behavior if there is never any reward or trust.  Sitting him on th bench makes Tyrus and this team worse.

by Scotter on Jan 4, 2008 4:16 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I want to see
him play too but something obviously has happened that we don't know. There are always two sides to everything. Maybe it's on him to make it right.
Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 4, 2008 4:24 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

like matt said
if it was something bad, we would have probably heard about it by now. if it's more jerky behavior that makes sam smith weep for the youth of america, then play him anyway.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Jan 4, 2008 4:29 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

maybe maybe not.
We aren't there every day so we have no idea. I just hope they fix whatever the problem is.
Win, just win.

by sue369 on Jan 4, 2008 4:47 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

TT got PT
last season, and he was a starter to open this season.  I don't know what he did or failed to do to lose that role and PT, but there is no doubt it was taken from him.  Although Skiles publily apologized it, I agree with what he pointed out about TT running the floor.  If he ran the floor like Noah does, we'd probably see a lot more of him.

And while 20 mpg is a stretch IMO, I completely agree that he's getting no better on the bench.

"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy

by mdmnd9294 on Jan 4, 2008 4:50 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wallace
Maybe he should not run at all, like Wallace.  Thats what pisses me off, the obvious double standard.  If you are trying to send a message to TT about effort, isn't it canceled out by giving Wallace unearned pt?

by JeffD on Jan 4, 2008 6:39 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Which is stupid.
Boylan doesn't have a clue.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 4, 2008 3:34 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think we're giving the staff too much credit
when thinking there's some subverse reason as to why Thomas isn't playing. If Thomas was that bad (or lazy) of a guy, we would've heard about it more often than we do.

I think it's just aversion to mistakes. Vets mean fewer mistakes.

Hanley makes a special mention of the Assist/TO ratio of Kirk&Duh since the big lineup change. Clearly a lack of turnovers is more benefitial than points.

Tyrus turns over the ball and fouls, so he sits. I think it's more about that than effort.

And just as stupid of a reason, but consistent with the 'to .500, ahoy!' policy.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 3:39 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It wasn't Thomas committing the TOs though.
Thomas had a TO-r under 11.0 during his 11 games in the starting lineup, which is very solid.  Even now his TO-r is only 12.2.  Thomas started the season doing what I though should have been expected of him.  Not forcing anything offensively, not committing TOs, and knocking down open jump shots.  I'd be pretty confused too about losing a starting spot when at least three other guys in the starting lineup were screwing up alot more.  When do those guys get benched?  Skiles playing time/accountability worked when everyone was subject to the same rules.  It fails when there are exceptions for guys who can't jump anymore, and others.  Once it became clear that Skiles wasn't running a meritocracy, he was dead.  And I haven't seen anything different from Boylan so far.

by Scotter on Jan 4, 2008 4:03 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

maybe the problem is
that the Bulls coaches and management doesn't look at the per 40min, adjusted stats, and gameflow stats like many of blogabullers do each day

could it be that Bulls (and maybe many teams) think they are smart enough and know enough about basketball that they don't have to listen to stats and reason when setting lineups and playing rotations?  which would mean what some blogabullers see as obvious facts (like Thomas was a positive last year when he got playing time) the Bulls coaching/management is not able to see because they don't listen and study statistics?

don't get me wrong I'm sure they have a statician and look at everything somewhat but I would love to know how much they make decisions based on stats?  

by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 4, 2008 4:20 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

didn't he lose the spot after 3 games, too?
Every time I think I should not be bitter and pissed off about this team, reading something like that makes me realize I have justified anger.

That's the even sadder part, his turnovers have been down this season. Maybe they don't look at actual turnovers, but 'mental mistakes' or some other concept solely created to punish Tyrus and nobody else.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2008 4:33 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he started the first 11 games
and maybe it's just a coincidence but the team's record is a lot better with TT on the bench.  That's definitely not all him, but I have to think he contributed to the poor start.  
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 4, 2008 6:07 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He sure didn't contribute very much.
Look at the stats for November.  To assign much blame to Thomas for those losses.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/stats?team=chi&seasonYear=2008&season=2&sort=pts& ;order=true&avg=pg&split=40
Hinrich, Gordon, and Wallace were by far the biggest reasons for the poor start.  Thomas is far down the list of responsibility.

by Scotter on Jan 4, 2008 6:15 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Those guys are also playing much better
since he was moved to the bench.  There were all kinds of stories about how TT wasn't running plays correctly and that had to contribute to the problem.  Maybe TT doesn't get along with the rest of the guys and there is bad chemistry on the court.  I don't know, but I am confident that TT is as much to blame for not getting PT as anybody else.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 4, 2008 6:18 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So now Tyrus is responsible
for Hinrich, Gordon, and Deng missing open jumpshots.  That's really the only significant difference in their play now and then.  I know.  I've stared at their splits plenty.  Tyrus, I'm sure is also somehow still responsible for Wallace's continued inability to jump.

by Scotter on Jan 4, 2008 6:33 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don't discount Joe Smith's calming influence
Seriously, I'm not trying to say TT caused that but this idea that TT deserves to play significant minutes starting yesterday is ludicrous.  Obviously something is going on.  We're not going to hear about it because neither side benefits from it getting out.  And it's not like he's going to come in and play better than Joe Smith right now anyway.  Best case is he plays as well as Noc, who has played well in stretches recently.  I'd like to see TT play more.  Even more I'd like to see Thabo play more.  There's 4-5 minutes in the second half at least where they should be able to get in.  But I don't think it necessarily solves any of the current problems.  If the Bulls want to toss in the towel then I absolutely think Tyrus, Thabo, Noah and Gray should play at a minimum 20 min/game.  But I don't think it is time to toss in the towel yet.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 4, 2008 6:44 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Joe Smith's minutes are fine.
And that's the problem. It's Wallace's minutes that are the problem. He's got the most out of everyone (Hinrich would, but he fouls too much), and that just doesn't cut it. I think you'd agree.

Smith has only averaged 24 minutes with Boylan. Boylan's done a great job rotating the whoever is hot at the four. One game it's Noah, another it's Gray (sort of), another Nocioni, another Smith (he hasn't given THomas a chance yet). Wallace has playing 36 minutes per 48 since last week. If he were down to 24/25, he'd be a lot more effective and Thomas and Noah could play more.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 5, 2008 12:14 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's started 11 games this year
or so says espn.  I don't remember when they were so if they benched him after game 6 they still went back to him.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 4, 2008 6:26 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Skiles went back to starting him
at the end of the month for 5 games, NY through Dallas.  So it isn't like they didn't give it at least a second try.  I think they will give a third, too, eventually.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 5, 2008 12:57 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I guess with this comment...
...we can pretty much dismiss anything else you say?
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 4, 2008 6:21 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

huh?
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 4, 2008 6:27 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No I'm not.
I just looked through GameFlow and minutes per game.

Boylan's two biggest problems are that he doesn't sit Wallace enough and he rides players that do well too long (as you mentioned). Nocioni is the first big off the bench which I don't like, but it does bring offense when the team is typically behind. After that, he's limited Noc's minutes (25 mpg) and Smith's (25 incl. yesterday/19-24 before that) when Noah or Gray has done better. Wallace is playing 40.

The other problem is that Thomas has not played once in two games and has only gotten one chance in the other three games. It's pretty ridiculous to think that a coach can know how good a player is going to be a for a full game based off of three to five minutes of game time.

In my book wanting to be .500 with a team that is better than that is "Not having a clue." Also, not playing your potentially biggest "difference maker" in favor of aging vets is also not having a clue.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 4, 2008 5:59 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Unlike you...
...I don't mind the "Gordon to the bench thing." He's still playing just as much and scoring more. Like you always say, what's it matter when the points are scored. Whether they start out behind and catch up or start ahead and lose the lead, they're still tied at the end. so to say
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 4, 2008 6:07 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He didn't have
a turnover which is rare for him.  THATS the improvement I guess some of you guys see.
Sarcasm.

He got three minutes because thats the pt he
deserves right now. If you wanna make the argument that two different coaches now have failed to see the genius you think the guy posses then knock yourself out.  I'd love to hear it.

The fact is that both Noah and Gray are miles ahead of this guy as far as knowing what the hell is going on and how they contribute to it.  That much has been plain since training camp.
The truth is that TT is a verrrrryyy limited player right now and the window of opportunity
for him to contribute is wafer thin, hence
the bench time.  It doesn't matter how athletic he is if he can't consistently run the offense and is woefully confused on defense.  Thems the facts.

by Rusty LaRue on Jan 4, 2008 4:35 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you'll love Knick fans
They seem to think Jamal Crawford is an elite NBA player.

by NBA Observer on Jan 4, 2008 2:38 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He is an elite talent,
just not an elite player.

Remind you of anyone?

by alec on Jan 4, 2008 2:49 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

TT
is like what 20. give him some time before u give up on him geesh.

by eross226 on Jan 4, 2008 2:16 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs